Resource Ultra Sun & Moon OU Analysis Discussion

bigtalk

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I think Mamoswine could use a revamp.
  • The current analysis does not offer that much useful information-- eg. it says "it's a Ground-type with access to Stealth Rock" but doesn't mention its ability to check Koko, mentions Defog Mega Scizor (which is an outdated set) but not Kartana/Celesteela at all, and doesn't explain how Mamoswine is different from Kyurem or Kyurem-B.
  • Groundium Z is a better option for the suggested item, since it ignores Grassy Terrain, OHKOes Pex and does a lot to Fini, while retaining the ability to break past fatter Pokemon like Ferrothorn/Clefable like with Metronome.
  • Team Options and Other Options are also pretty lacking. Life Orb/Focus Sash and Knock Off/Freeze-Dry/Endeavor are probably worth a mention in OO.
 

GMars

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I think Mamoswine could use a revamp.
  • The current analysis does not offer that much useful information-- eg. it says "it's a Ground-type with access to Stealth Rock" but doesn't mention its ability to check Koko, mentions Defog Mega Scizor (which is an outdated set) but not Kartana/Celesteela at all, and doesn't explain how Mamoswine is different from Kyurem or Kyurem-B.
  • Groundium Z is a better option for the suggested item, since it ignores Grassy Terrain, OHKOes Pex and does a lot to Fini, while retaining the ability to break past fatter Pokemon like Ferrothorn/Clefable like with Metronome.
  • Team Options and Other Options are also pretty lacking. Life Orb/Focus Sash and Knock Off/Freeze-Dry/Endeavor are probably worth a mention in OO.
We're going to focus on clearing out the queue we currently have to make sure we finish before Sword and Shield release before approving any more revamps, but thank you for suggesting updating Mamo's teammates/mentions. It's possible it can be done through CMS edits too if anyone wants to take that up.
 
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I hope this is the right place, but just wanted to comment on the updated Manaphy Analysis for 2 attacks.

For EVs, we should consider Manaphy should sit in the +Modest Heatran range of 254, with a mention about speed creep. The most notable targets are SG Magearna, ZHeatran, Tapu Fini, Defensive Lando-T, and not having to Speed tie with Zapdos. The reason being is at +3 those are all easy KOs instead of potentially being revenge killed at low health or Taunted. The only notable IIRC the few extra points of HP helps with is the roll on Tapu Koko's Thunderbolt (who's staying in on that?). The spread would be 192 HP / 244 SpA / 72 Spe

Also, Ice Beam should at least be slashed with Psychic, as it has a chance against the Latias / Pex core. Pex and Mega Venusaur can still be defeated by WateriumZ (it outdamages Psychic in Rain) but Mega Latias walls Manaphy without Ice Beam, due to it being able to CM on the Z. The other consolation being it does well of course with Bulu (75% OHKO) and Tangrowth, who can be more of a headache for partner Mega-Swampert than Pex is.
 
REALLY small nitpick but on the Choice Scarf Magnezone analysis it says it needs 8HP and 4 Def EVs to live unboosted Sacred Sword from kartana after rocks, while 4 HP and 4 Def also does this:
252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 224-264 (79.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

so the EV spread would have to be 4 HP / 4 Def / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
 
REALLY small nitpick but on the Choice Scarf Magnezone analysis it says it needs 8HP and 4 Def EVs to live unboosted Sacred Sword from kartana after rocks, while 4 HP and 4 Def also does this:
252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 224-264 (79.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

so the EV spread would have to be 4 HP / 4 Def / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
8 HP may be there to minimize Rocks damage
 
In the Gyarados analysis, Dragon Dance Sweeper set, under team option it is mentioned that Gyarados struggles against Zapdos so Pokémon that can deal with him such as Mega Pinsir are good teammates. Since Zapdos walls Mega Pinsir (and this is also stated in the Checks and Counters section of the Mega Pinsir page) I think this should be corrected.
 

Colonel M

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In Zard X's OO, Flame Charge with Swords Dance should be mentioned. It's situational and won't always work to your advantage, but sometimes Zard X just needs to overpower its checks instead of being faster than them, and Flame Charge at least gives a little Speed leverage with some offense if needed. Not the best set and I don't quite think it's set worthy, but I think a mention in OO is sufficient.

EDIT: I'll echo that Baneful Bunker should get a slash on Toxapex.
 
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Could Nidoking use a (low prio) revamp? The analysis feels extremely outdated, mentioning stuff like Keldeo, Mega Pinsir and AV Torn-T. It also mentions Defog Zor and Double Dance Lando. Usage Tips also lack the proper information to use Nidoking—for example, it can often come in on Pex unscathed if it throws a Toxic down, which can be beneficial for many teammates. Ik we aren’t planning on doing lower-tier analyses, bit because Nido had gotten a small bit of limelight I think it may be worth revisiting.
 

GMars

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Could Nidoking use a (low prio) revamp? The analysis feels extremely outdated, mentioning stuff like Keldeo, Mega Pinsir and AV Torn-T. It also mentions Defog Zor and Double Dance Lando. Usage Tips also lack the proper information to use Nidoking—for example, it can often come in on Pex unscathed if it throws a Toxic down, which can be beneficial for many teammates. Ik we aren’t planning on doing lower-tier analyses, bit because Nido had gotten a small bit of limelight I think it may be worth revisiting.
We're going to focus on clearing out the queue we currently have to make sure we finish before Sword and Shield release before approving any more revamps, but thank you for suggesting updating Mamo's teammates/mentions. It's possible it can be done through CMS edits too if anyone wants to take that up.
Again, thanks for the recommendation but we'd prefer people to do these through CMS edits rather than revamps right now so we can finish the queue before the gen is up.
 

Ophion

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If we’re just doing small CMS edits for these less viable Pokemon, could Alolan Muk get one? It has outdated Overview saying it traps regular Latios and doesn’t mention Mega Latias or even other Defoggers as partners.

Also, Gyarados should get a really big CMS edit or just a straight revamp since it mentions regular Latios and Latias as a good Defogger, Mega Pinsir as a way to beat Zapdos, and the neither section mentions the fact Gyarados is best on HO.

Clefable’s PhysDef analysis needs updates like mentioning how it beats Sub Mawile, different mons of what Knocks cripples (Marowak is irrelevant garbage), include the TWave point there as an option over Wish, and have updated Team Options overall. The CM set should have a mention of LO as we saw it put to good use by people like Twixtry on Spikes balance during OLT.

Rotom’s defensive set needs a new EV spread, its outdated and it needs updated Team Options.

Bisharp could use a CMS edit as well seeing as it’s been seeing use on hazard stack with Ferrothorn again, and Sticky Web is bad and is one of the big things mentioned in the analysis and is no longer accurate to how it’s used.

Ditto could have a more fleshed out team options section seeing as it’s been seeing a lot of use on quite a few archetypes and its analysis doesn’t even mention HP Ground for Magnezone in any capacity and the IV changes about HP Fire are no longer necessary since PS fixed it.

Remove Celesteela using Giga Drain from Gastrodon’s analysis.

Suicune’s analysis doesn’t mention how Pressure actually drains Haze PP so Suicune can beat Toxapex if played correctly and keeps mentioning Timid Tapu Lele in particular (just remove the Timid part), needs Updated Team Options, and has mentions of regular Latios and Defog Mega Scizor.

Mantine should either have its analysis removed since it’s irrelevant or should stress more on how it’s good against rain (save Koko, SG Mage with Tbolt, and Stone Edge Swampert), Ash-Greninja, and Kommoium Z Kommo-o while removing outdated things like Manectric and it Defogging on Lando (Z Rock and Fly are the most common variants with Stealth Rock, and they overpower Mantine). Also needs updated Team Options.

Maybe give more emphasis to Inwards Out Pyukumuku since we saw it in Snake 3 times and won all 3 times iirc. Not sure if it’s a big enough deal.

Scolipede hasn’t been used since regular SM and is trash, idk if it should still even have an analysis, I know it’s ranked on the VR but still. I guess Team Option expansion can be good and mention other z moves and its ability to set up on forced switches?

Fix Volcanion’s team options to not have outdated shit like Defog Latios and more emphasis on how Pursuit is a big deal with Latias balance being so common. Also mention Toxic first in OO or even mention it in Moves since it cripples so many of its checks.

Expand Weavile’s Team Options to be more relevant as they don’t mention things like Z Heatran getting huge benefit from Weavile Pursuit trapping Latis and Tornadus nor does it mention Defog support from Tapu Fini or Gliscor. Give Weavile’s Scarf and SD Z Move sets more praise in OO, they’ve seen some pretty decent use between OLT and Snake by people like ABR, Twixtry, and Chaitanya.
 
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Colonel M

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I have to have the other QC members weigh in on the other stuff, but just to clarify something:
Mantine should either have its analysis removed since it’s irrelevant or should stress more on how it’s good against rain (save Koko, SG Mage with Tbolt, and Stone Edge Swampert), Ash-Greninja, and Kommoium Z Kommo-o while removing outdated things like Manectric and it Defogging on Lando (Z Rock and Fly are the most common variants with Stealth Rock, and they overpower Mantine). Also needs updated Team Options.

Scolipede hasn’t been used since regular SM and is trash, idk if it should still even have an analysis, I know it’s ranked on the VR but still. I guess Team Option expansion can be good and mention other z moves and its ability to set up on forced switches?
Until they're unranked they technically need an analysis, and there isn't a major reason to remove it. If Mantine stays (I doubt it, but we'll assume for sake of argument), it'll need some polishing (CMS edits). I literally don't know about Scolipede and can't even think on that one personally.

Some of these I can look at changing up.

EDIT: On second thought Alolan Muk... is not as easy as I thought it'd be. I have to re-think how I want this one because it's a major relic of the past.
 
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Tramuntana

formerly SJMistery
Clefable’s PhysDef analysis needs updates like mentioning how it beats Sub Mawile, different mons of what Knocks cripples (Marowak is irrelevant garbage), include the TWave point there as an option over Wish, and have updated Team Options overall. The CM set should have a mention of LO as we saw it put to good use by people like Twixtry on Spikes balance during OLT.

Ditto could have a more fleshed out team options section seeing as it’s been seeing a lot of use on quite a few archetypes and its analysis doesn’t even mention HP Ground for Magnezone in any capacity and the IV changes about HP Fire are no longer necessary since PS fixed it.
I disagree on Marowak, that thing can get a free KO every time it comes in on an electric type, and eats stall teams for breakfast.

Ditto REQUIRES an update, he is extremely underrated. I'll be happy to help in this regard, if one thing I can still boast from my old days in comp, is that I know him and his tricks like the back of my hand.
 

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