didls
formerly Besom
True, but I don't think it's a coincidence that all of Lance's Pokémon have Hyper Beam, and Hyper Beam isn't used by any trainers you battle prior to Lance.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Exactly. There's evidence of that all over RBY.
For example, Vileplume being straight up "Venusaur, but worse". It was very obviously intended to be a replacement for Bulbasaur in case people picked another starter.
The evo level requirement for the Dratini family is another one. It's very much intended to be a special mon that you need to put a great deal of effort into both getting it and training it, with the result being the only Dragon-type in the game.
Fearow and Dodrio is another great one with Dodrio being outright superior but coming much, much later than Spearow.
Of course, this is not only something that happens every game, but also backfires as well.
See: The evo level requirements for half of Unova's mons and Noibat being pushed as an early Dragon-type since Gen 7 but being rendered unviable every time because of its pathetic stats and high evolution level.
This is something that Game Freak could work on fixing. Some evolution methods just need work and some mons that used to be found at high-level encounters (Like Noibat, Rufflet, and Vullaby) but aren't anymore need adjustments and it's very obvious that they need help because they were crammed early-game by devs, so it's hard to not notice such an obvious problem.
We could fill a whole thread with this kind of small, reasonable adjustments.
Nah, I was referring to actual adjustments in base stats, movepool, evo methods and the like.
But I digress, we're getting off-topic.
Well, Game Freak often seems to take one step at a time. Things like Ability Capsule, Bottle Cap, or the nature Mints were all first introduced in their respective generations. Probably to keep things interesting or sth. to look forward to.
This generation, you can now evolve Pkm like Magnezone with a Thunder Stone, so here's hoping they'll find some new ways to solve the evolution issue for some Pkm like Rufflet, etc.
This is also the generation where several of the formerly trade-only evo are catchable in the wild so you never know...
After seeing Steelix in the wild in Gen IV I harboured similar hopes, but sadly, it was not to be.
Sadly that would probably fall into wishlisting. While we tip toe around that in the (Little) Things That Annoy you thread, an entire thread dedicated to it would easily fall into everyone suggesting their fixes and even possibly cause argument on who's fix is better (I would like to think we wouldn't and be perfectly civil and respectable, though if we aren't it's a mess the mods probably don't want to clean-up). I myself got a few Notepad files of suggestions (not many for stat changes, but I do have for Moves, Abilities, Evo Methods, and many other things here and there), and even I know some things in there are going to some people the wrong way. :P
For Rufflet and the like you just gotta lower the evo level. I even listed my ideas of levels in the annoyance thread:
Some additions mentioned later on:
I think it's optimistic to even assume people would bother commenting on other people's wishlists instead of just rattling off their own. It'd be all rambling and zero discussion.
Indeed. Someone on facebook posted about the Pokemon SwSh beta leak and I commented that the game looked very unfinished for that state which is why explains Dexit, and people got mad at me lol, their counterargument "Game Freak has the money". Those guys were totally convinced that GF intentionally cut content so they can sell it back with DLC, of course, most of them forgetting (or choosing to ignore...) that the returning mons are updated free. The proof for the rushed and troubled development was right there, and they call me the blind sheep.
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They look at the fact there are some currently-unavailable Pokémon in the beta and immediately jump into that conclusion.Indeed. Someone on facebook posted about the Pokemon SwSh beta leak and I commented that the game looked very unfinished for that state which is why explains Dexit, and people got mad at me lol, their counterargument "Game Freak has the money". Those guys were totally convinced that GF intentionally cut content so they can sell it back with DLC, of course, most of them forgetting (or choosing to ignore...) that the returning mons are updated free. The proof for the rushed and troubled development was right there, and they call me the blind sheep.
I mean, yes, it's strange that they've decided not to keep the Pokémon that already had some model porting done, but...
It isn't really. If the Pokemon already present were just mere model porting without animations, you'd still have needed to make the new animations either ways.
It's more likely that when they started the developing of animations and realized they wouldn't have made it, they decided to only include the regional dex.
My theory is that the "35" were already developed and ready when they decided to not include everything, so just went with them.
(Notably, all of them except Meltan, Melmetal, the gen 5/7 mythicals and the Justicars were in some way used in events before the first DLC release)
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I'm not denying that Pokémon Company have greedy practices (I mean, just look at Pokémon Unite), but attributing flaws due to laziness is a disservice to the developers imo. I've seen detractors throwing around "duh, they lazy" when there's something bad, never considering that it might be stuff out of the control of the working team (and that could apply to other cases, not just Pokémon), or just flat out something they don't like, like a Pokemon design, so it must be "lazy". That word has lost so much meaning to me these last years...
You could say that.... *puts on sunglasses* ... calling something "lazy" is pretty lazy.
I guess one of my unpopular opinions is that I'm just so tired of seeing arguments about why Dexit really happened and whether the reasons were good enough.
Well, the good thing is that we shouldn't have to talk about Dexit anymore until the end of the switch's lifetime, right? Right? 
It was, at the time, perfectly justifiable for people to think that GF cut the Dex to sell it back as DLC, considering that there is a storied history of game publishers and developers doing exactly that (and worse).
didls
formerly Besom
Gonna sound like a huge hypocrite here after my GSC-being-better-than-HGSS post, but after proceeding in my playthrough of Soul Silver and reaching Blackthorn with 4 level 42 Pokémon, I gotta say that the level curve isn't a big deal in HGSS either. Guess that's what I get for not playing them for 2 years 
.
Of course, I am only using 4 Pokémon, but even if I was using a full team of 6, I think I would still be at least around level 37. I did no grinding and tried to avoid burning through trainer battles to level up new Pokémon I caught (which I usually do and I think it's valid strategy in any Pokémon game).
I'm going to assume most people who have played HGSS and complain about it haven't played through it to the extremes I have and thus, don't employ any of the strategies I use. For a long time, it was the only Pokémon game I could play and I played it constantly. So as a result, I've probably cracked the code and am able to always get to the Elite 4 and have levels on-par with them (happened in my last playthrough 2 years ago as well).
Of course, the level spike from Mahogany to Clair isn't near as egregious as the level spike from Blue to the Elite 4 rematch / Red. But most people who do complain about the level curve (at least in my experience) only complain about the level curve around Clair and the first Elite 4 battle. However, I can't in good faith actually measure how bad the level curve before Red is, becaue the last playthrough I did, I burned through all of the Kanto trainers training an Aerodactyl and Raichu and my team gained almost no levels as a result.
In fact, I usually have more probem with the extreme level curve around the Elite 4 in DPPt. Even when employing the same strategies (only using 4 mons, no grinding etc.) I still end up a good 10 levels lower than Aaron. I think the reason that DPPt never get called out for their level curve is that they have more steady level jumps up to that point, whereas the levels in Johto remain at a stagnant ~20 until Mahogany.
The low levels are also a pretty big sticking point, I don't think the low levels are the problem at all, as they don't directly contribute to the level curve. The large jumps between Mahogany and Blackthorn and Blue and Red could easily be solved by just... lowering their levels to match.
That being said, HGSS did have shit handling of the could-be-amazing Safari Zone and completely ignoring the wild encounter changes from Crystal. The "level curve" is just an easily observable pattern gathered from looking at the levels throughout Johto, but it's basically a non-problem that doesn't affect gameplay nearly as much as the other shortcomings of HGSS that everyone ignores.
For the record, this doesn't apply to just HGSS; I was able to reach Giovanni with level 55 Pokémon in FRLG by only using 4.
I've gone from intellectually defending RBY to fanboying over HGSS like a casual. Someone please stop me.
.Of course, I am only using 4 Pokémon, but even if I was using a full team of 6, I think I would still be at least around level 37. I did no grinding and tried to avoid burning through trainer battles to level up new Pokémon I caught (which I usually do and I think it's valid strategy in any Pokémon game).
I'm going to assume most people who have played HGSS and complain about it haven't played through it to the extremes I have and thus, don't employ any of the strategies I use. For a long time, it was the only Pokémon game I could play and I played it constantly. So as a result, I've probably cracked the code and am able to always get to the Elite 4 and have levels on-par with them (happened in my last playthrough 2 years ago as well).
Of course, the level spike from Mahogany to Clair isn't near as egregious as the level spike from Blue to the Elite 4 rematch / Red. But most people who do complain about the level curve (at least in my experience) only complain about the level curve around Clair and the first Elite 4 battle. However, I can't in good faith actually measure how bad the level curve before Red is, becaue the last playthrough I did, I burned through all of the Kanto trainers training an Aerodactyl and Raichu and my team gained almost no levels as a result.
In fact, I usually have more probem with the extreme level curve around the Elite 4 in DPPt. Even when employing the same strategies (only using 4 mons, no grinding etc.) I still end up a good 10 levels lower than Aaron. I think the reason that DPPt never get called out for their level curve is that they have more steady level jumps up to that point, whereas the levels in Johto remain at a stagnant ~20 until Mahogany.
The low levels are also a pretty big sticking point, I don't think the low levels are the problem at all, as they don't directly contribute to the level curve. The large jumps between Mahogany and Blackthorn and Blue and Red could easily be solved by just... lowering their levels to match.
That being said, HGSS did have shit handling of the could-be-amazing Safari Zone and completely ignoring the wild encounter changes from Crystal. The "level curve" is just an easily observable pattern gathered from looking at the levels throughout Johto, but it's basically a non-problem that doesn't affect gameplay nearly as much as the other shortcomings of HGSS that everyone ignores.
For the record, this doesn't apply to just HGSS; I was able to reach Giovanni with level 55 Pokémon in FRLG by only using 4.
While I don't dislike them, I do prefer how the Pokemon stock are are drawn nowadays.
Someone brought up HG/SS again? I feel that I need to say something. Why can't I just keep quiet for once?
For my regular playthroughs of HG/SS in 2010, I used full teams of 6 Pokémon. I had to grind quite a lot during the games, but maybe it wasn't that much more than in any other game prior to Gen 6? Or before Gen 5, for that matter? I don't really remember, it was so long ago. But at the same time, I am a person who doesn't really have much of a problem with grinding as long as there are good spots to grind... which HG/SS actually lacks. Yet I still trained 12 Pokémon to leve 50 against wild Pokémon at ranges of level 30-35. Would I have the patience for something like that today? Probably not.
Also, I haven't played HG/SS to any extremes at all. In fact, out of the games from Gen 4-8 that I have played, they are the ones I have played the least, along with Sword. I don't think I have even reached 200 hours on any of my main HG/SS files. It was also several years ago at this point and my memory is getting unclear at points, so I think you make a good point here.
Sorry if this wasn't a good reply to what you said, but I felt that I had to reply here and this is the result.
And I am still not ready to post my other new unpopular opinion about HG/SS, it would otherwise have been a perfect opportunity to include it here. I'll get it done another time.
I have only played through HG/SS three times in total, the last time was 8 years ago in which I sort of did a "speedrun" through the story part of the game. But it was still very slow as I am terrible at going through games quickly even when I try. On that playthrough, I just used my starter and two others I had traded over from another game, which meant they got boosted Exp. From what I can remember, I did not have to grind at any point during that playthrough of the game, my "team" of three was at level 50 once I got to the E4 (I explored every area in the game and battled every possible trainer). Oddly, it made the level curve in HG/SS pretty much perfect. In any other game, I would probably have become overleveled instead.
For my regular playthroughs of HG/SS in 2010, I used full teams of 6 Pokémon. I had to grind quite a lot during the games, but maybe it wasn't that much more than in any other game prior to Gen 6? Or before Gen 5, for that matter? I don't really remember, it was so long ago. But at the same time, I am a person who doesn't really have much of a problem with grinding as long as there are good spots to grind... which HG/SS actually lacks. Yet I still trained 12 Pokémon to leve 50 against wild Pokémon at ranges of level 30-35. Would I have the patience for something like that today? Probably not.
Also, I haven't played HG/SS to any extremes at all. In fact, out of the games from Gen 4-8 that I have played, they are the ones I have played the least, along with Sword. I don't think I have even reached 200 hours on any of my main HG/SS files. It was also several years ago at this point and my memory is getting unclear at points, so I think you make a good point here.
I think the level curve in the games is pretty awful from Whitney and beyond, though that's just me. But if I were to pick one area where the level curve is at its absoulute worst, it is the post-game. Wild Pokémon generally ranging from level 5-25, regular trainers at level 40-50, Gym Leaders at level 50-60, E4 Rematches at around level 70, Red at level 80+. That's just bad game design IMO. When I played through teh Kanto part of HG/SS, I just nuked pretty much everything with my teams but I could never grind against wild Pokémon since they were too weak, and as a result, my teams barely grew by 10 levels throughout all of Kanto.
Personally, I have less of a problem with the level curve in D/P/P because of two reasons. The first one is that the Sinnoh games give much better training spots thanks to the VS. Seeker (which is amazing compared to the awful phone system in HG/SS). The Sinnoh games also have wild Pokémon at higher levels, they are at level 40-46 in Victory Road compared to level 32-36 in HG/SS. The second reason is that Platinum actually did some attempts to make the level curve at the end of the game less harsh. In D/P, Volkner's Luxray is at level 49, compared to Cynthia's Garchomp which is at level 66! A difference of 17 levels. But in Platinum, Volkner's Electivire is at level 50 and Cynthia's Garchomp at level 62, which is only a difference of 12 levels. In comparison, HG/SS did little to nothing to improve upon the difference from G/S/C. I'd even say they made things worse in the post-game by making trainer levels higher, but keeping wild Pokémon levels low. This is very notable since Red which got upgraded a fair bit and the E4 got stronger in rematches, but the wild Pokémon are still as low as in the originals. Finding wild non-legendary Pokémon at level 50 or above is pretty much impossible in HG/SS, which is pretty much unacceptable. And as you say, D/P/P also have more balanced level jumps before the E4.
They are a problem in that they don't really allow you to grind against wild Pokémon after a certain point. Maybe not that much during the main game, but it becomes a big problem during the post-game as I talked about above. Lowering the levels of trainers could have fixed the problem, but I think there's an even better solution: raise the levels of the wild Pokémon. That would make things much better IMO.
I agree. Think the level curve is not the only problem with HG/SS, and it is far from the biggest one. Personally, I think the trainer rematch system is the biggest problem with HG/SS, but others will probably disagree with me. These games have a ton of problems in total, and as I have said before, they are my least favorites for a good reason.
Sorry if this wasn't a good reply to what you said, but I felt that I had to reply here and this is the result.
And I am still not ready to post my other new unpopular opinion about HG/SS, it would otherwise have been a perfect opportunity to include it here. I'll get it done another time.
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No, it's not. I think so too.
The problem with GSC/HGSS is that once you get to Ecruteak, you can go for Morty, go to Olivine (and not do a lot because no Surf) or Mahogany/Lake of Rage (again, only really opens up with Surf).
Because of that split, the game has to take into consideration that the player will be able to access these areas with lower leveled mons.
This made them lower the wild mon levels and a lot of the trainers too.
That is why things get wonky, because the only real exp. you'll be getting will be in the Gyms and some unrematchable trainers. It's similar to what happens in Kanto but less drastic.
For example. You need to grind against Pryce. This means you're probably grinding on the Lake of Rage since it's the closest place to Mahogany.
Enjoy beating up lv. 15-17 wilds trying to get your mons to 31-33.
Idk if this is unpopular, ive heard so many things about it, but it has been on my mind for a while.
I feel like making an open world pokemon game would be a lot more of a hassle than other jrpgs. I dont know if difficult/impossible is the right word, im not an expert on these kinds of things, but the variables between wild pokemon vs trainers vs bosses (gym leaders) is bigger than your usual jrpg random encounters vs boss. You'd also have to tweak a lot of things to make it work, and forgetting one or two may just end up shooting yourself in the foot. Its a lot of things to consider, to the point of questioning if its even worth trying to do it vs just trying to improve on the current system
I feel like making an open world pokemon game would be a lot more of a hassle than other jrpgs. I dont know if difficult/impossible is the right word, im not an expert on these kinds of things, but the variables between wild pokemon vs trainers vs bosses (gym leaders) is bigger than your usual jrpg random encounters vs boss. You'd also have to tweak a lot of things to make it work, and forgetting one or two may just end up shooting yourself in the foot. Its a lot of things to consider, to the point of questioning if its even worth trying to do it vs just trying to improve on the current system
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Just, honestly... why the remakes couldn't have made it so that you couldn't face Pryce before beating Jasmine is beyond me. It would have solved half the game's issues in a masterstroke.
(I actually have a whole scenario devised for how I'd make that work but it'd probably count as wishlisting to post it, so)
Has anyone ever actually explored the options after ecruteak? From what i've seen, people just go to chuck and then jasmine, very few actually fight pryce first, mainly because of the amount of backtracking you'd need to do. Its just a hassle and kinds undermines the "openness" of it. I hate kanto games but at least theres good reason to go different routes (though skipping lt surge is a pointless feature if you arent doing some wingull only challenge. Hes right there bro just get over with it.)
Removing it and giving the gyms an actual exp curve would have been so much better
Removing it and giving the gyms an actual exp curve would have been so much better