Lotad, Seedot, Hoothoot, and Magikarp are obtainable on Route 2
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
You also have caterpie, grubbin and purrloin
Nickit doesn't work? I wonder why, let's see it's Bulbapedia page...
Okay, I see the problem. Some Einstein made the Nickit family a Special focused Pokemon (40/28/28/47/52/50). Problem with that: early game is usually Physically focused. Many early route mons are decent Physical attackers and have Physical moves cause logically those are the first things a creature would learn to do. Which is also another problem Nickit has, as it's level-up movepool is bad:
Level 1: Quick Attack & Tail Whip
Level 4: Beat Up
Level 8: Hone Claws
Level 12: Snarl
Level 16: Assurance
(Evolve at Level 18)
So, in the Physical-focused early game, you have a frail Special Attacker that doesn't learn it's first Special Attack until Level 12 and only has Quick Attack and Beat Up to work with until then. Who thought this was a good idea?
To be honest the Nickit line’s issue is just its base stats. Going solely off of stats and its initial movepool, Thievul is one of the worst Pokémon ever made. In competitive it’s remained very slightly viable through Unburden shenanigans and the strength of terrain teams (so seeds work out) but it still languishes in the lowest tiers. If not for Burning Jealousy, which was of course added in the DLC, Thievul wouldn’t even be used in ZU. And Unburden is pretty unusable in-game since it relies on consumable items that can’t be easily replaced.
There’s weak Pokémon and then there’s Thievul. I have no idea what they were trying to do here because it’s so bad that it ends up being a genuine slog to use in-game. One of my biggest pet peeves with SwSh is Thievul, because its design is one of my favourites from Gen 8 and I still dropped it from my in-game team because it was such a liability.
I suppose they relying on that 'unable to turn off' exp share for it to get Snarl with little problem. It also gets Nasty Plot fairly early so that's a plus. Aside from Foul Play, I really don't see many useful tools for Thievul, unless you farm for good TRs.
I don't get the fanservice part. I mean there's fanservice I also find very bad and blatant (e.g.: Let's Go being severely stuck in the past) but I don't think hgss qualifies.
Not really, healing berries are actually potential clutch material when it comes to Gym battles. It's just not as reliable on demand like in Comp.
I guess it would result in a ninth bird, yes. That's a downside.
But on the upside, it means the developers couldn't be content with introducing just the bird, bug and rodent plus a couple of crapmons and then pad out the encounters with Pokémon from the earlier games. Sun and Moon in particular fall hard into this trap. On Route 1 your Alolan options are limited to just Yungoos, Pikipek, and Grubbin, plus Rattata-A if you're willing to count that as a new Pokémon. Contrast all the old-gen Pokémon you meet there: Caterpie (and Metapod), Ledyba, Spinarak, Pichu (and Pikachu by SOS call), Bonsly (and Sudowoodo by SOS call), Happiny, Munchlax (and Snorlax by SOS call), Slowpoke, and Wingull (that's 13 in case you didn't count). USUM adds Buneary and Inkay to the route too. Moving on to the Trainer's School, you can find the Galarian forms of Meowth and Grimer, plus Magnemite. Zorua too in USUM. In Hau'oli City, the Pokémon added to the selection are Abra, Mime Jr./Mr. Mime (USUM), and Furfrou (USUM). Onto Route 2: Drowzee, Smeargle, Spearow, Growlithe, Makuhita, Machop (Trade), Ekans (USUM), Dunsparce (USUM), and Hawlucha (USUM, Trade). Meanwhile only Cutiefly and Crabrawler are added as Alolan Pokémon (and you're not guaranteed to find the latter, as it's only found in berry piles). You might want to stop by Hau'oli Cemetery too, where the selection is: Zubat, Gastly, Misdreavus, Drifloon, and Murkrow (USUM). That's all the locations up until the first Trial.
Two towns and two routes into the game, and you've only encountered five Gen VII Pokémon, three of which are the boring ol' bird, bug, and rodent. Plus three Kanto Pokémon dipped in paint, if you count those as new. Meanwhile, you've seen up to 35 old-gen Pokémon. Mind you, this is the hellish slogscape of Gen VII, so you've taken a fair while to get here as well. Granted, this does set the tone for the rest of Alola. The new Gen VII Pokémon are nowhere to be seen, and the old-gen Pokémon offer much greater versatility anyway. The only remaining new Gen VII Pokémon to be found on all of Melemele are Oricorio and Rockruff (the latter only after you get Tauros). Kalos is actually even worse, with only Scatterbug, Fletchling, Bunnelby, and Litleo being Gen VI options before the first Gym.
To be fair to SwSh for once, I think they struck a quite nice balance here. On Route 1 and 2 you find Blipbug, Rookidee, Skwovet, Wooloo, Nickit, Chewtle, and Yamper, plus Arrokuda if you're willing to fish for a while. There's Galarian Zigzagoon too, but it's rare. The Gen VIII 'mons outnumber the earlier-game 'mons (which are Caterpie, Hoothoot, Grubbin, Lotad/Seedot, Purrloin, and Magikarp) in the very beginning, and only about half of them are archetypes (coincidentally, so is half the old-gen Pokémon). The Pokémon found on the first two routes aren't top shelf picks from old generations either, so it's not like you'd be much better off with them over the native Galarian Pokémon. And then the Wild Area opens up and you're getting access to potentially hundreds of Pokémon before the first Gym. Still, I think they would have benefited from having a couple more native Pokémon to offer at this earliest point of the game, especially in the Wild Area. Looking through the encounter lists for the Wild Area, as far as I can tell, when you first get to the area you can't find a single new Gen VIII Pokémon apart from ones you already saw on the first two Routes, possibly except in Raids. Galar should have had a few more natives to entice you to search the Wild Area when you first get there.
For the old-school linear games, let's appreciate RSE for a bit here. The first Route is rather boring, but the regional bug and rodent have Poochyena for company to break up the monotony. On Route 102, Lotad and Seedot make their appearance (three-stage evolutions! Nice!), alongside Ralts (even better!) and Surskit if you're really willing to search for it (1% encounter, woo!). Route 103 and 104 give you Wingull and Taillow too. Plus Marill, for whatever reason, although only in Emerald. Petalburg Woods lets you pick up Shroomish and possibly Slakoth if you're patient (and you better be if you plan to use Slakoth in the first place ...). Before the first Gym you can also explore Route 116 for a chance to find Nincada, Whismur, Skitty, and, in Emerald, Abra. That's 14 new evolution families (and two old ones in Emerald) before the first Gym. Yes, there are regional bugs, birds, and rodents among them (arguably two regional birds, even), but also ten other families - Lotad and Seedot being version exclusives.
The set-up used in Hoenn requires a large roster of new Pokémon, to give you plenty of options early. It's another benefit of having a large generational Pokédex, you get to have room for that sort of thing. Of course, Unova managed to somehow bungle this up with the exact same premise (exhaustive list of Pokémon available before the first Gym: Starter, Patrat, Lillipup, Audino, Purrloin, Pidove, Elemental Monkey) despite its ginormous dex size, so it's not foolproof.
Gotta give Gen I a quick mention too. It lets you have access to Rattata, Pidgey, Nidoran-M, Nidoran-F, Mankey, Spearow, and Caterpie/Weedle before the first Gym. For the very beginning of the franchise, it's not half bad. The bugs, birds, and rodents overwhelm the first routes, but that little detour into Route 22 is so rewarding. An extra rival battle and four new Pokémon await those who take their time to explore rather than rushing forward. Come to think of it, I don't think the early Routes have rewarded exploration to that degree ever since. GSC had that southern bit of Route 46, I guess that counts, but still it's strange that the concept was abandoned so early.
Anyway, TL;DR - a greater selection of new Pokémon at the start of the game makes the whole experience better and more varied. Resorting only to the archetypes + old Pokémon makes things feel stale really fast. It says a bit that Cutiefly on Route 2 is the first Gen 7 Pokémon you're likely to meet that isn't a regional starter, bird, bug, or rodent.
I thought people loved Lillie? At least SM Lillie? I personally liked Lillie, though she’s definitely not as good as N. My #1 issue with Lillie is that she relies too much on the player to deal with her family- come on- you certainly would not wanna deal with an UB obsessed Lusamine right? It just makes her feel too passive of a character, it contrast to N, who learns that Pokémon and people should be together by battling with the player, that’s why I like N more than Lillie.
Agree that Marnie is the most forgettable character ever and why she has a fan following I don’t get. After her first appearance at the Budew Inn, I honestly forgot she even existed until Pier’s gym battle. Sure she has good music, but that alone doesn’t make her good character- if that’s the case, all of Team Flare are great characters because their music.
And while we’re on the topic of SM’s story, I have an unpopular opinion: I don’t think the Tapus and UBs were handled that well. For SM, only Tapu Koko has any relevance in the story, while the other three don’t make any physical appearences at all. Lele and Bulu are mentioned by word only, and Fini is briefly seen in a water form before vanishing just as Hapu is finishing her ceremony. They apparently were fighting the UBs, but their only shown in spots of light. The fights also take place off screen and are never mentioned again. I kind of wish the UBs had a more of a role in the main story, but at least Nihilego was handled very well. The side quest was fun, since we got to learn about Looker, Annabel, Nanu, and the UBs in much more depth than last time.
Then USM came, the attention of Lusamine shifted to Necrozma, and the UBs still invade. The problem is that there is no reason for the UBs exist since they have no relevance to any of the plot. The scenes featuring Nihilego and the UBs fighting the Kahunas don’t need to exist since the UBs don’t matter anymore. Looker and Annabel are also robbed of their side story, and just exist as filler in Alola instead. Oh yeah, and they did not fix any of the issues with the Tapus.
Well, has someone who loves Goomy and has Goodra has his favorite Gen 6 Pokémon, let me try to explain why. I think it’s really cute because it’s so helpless and it’s beady eyes really makes it look like it needs a friend. Speaking of Goodra, I happen to find it really cute and the Pokedex entry states that if loves pools and cries all by itself. It just feels very different from the likes of Tyranitar, Hydreigon, and Salamence because they are described as fierce and dangerous, but Goodra is the complete opposite in that it will hug you. When I played XY for the first time, I did not know what the pseudo-Legendary of XY was until I completed the game. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was Goodra, a very cute Dragon type. I also happen to really like Mollusks in general, and that includes Mollusk-Pokemon like Slugma line, Shellos, and of course, the Goomy line. I really find the Goomy line really cool that sense that they combine Dragon and a slug together-Not only does it feel different from Gastrodon and Magcargo, but it also captures the draconic sense while also giving the slug form from its sliminess. I think the transition from Slug to Snail to Dragon was done really well. Your not the first person to dislike Goodra though, my brother ( who is a former Pokemon fan ) says it looks dumb, though we have very different tastes when it comes to Pokemon.
I'd also argue that RS are also obsolete because of Emerald. Can't really see a reason to play them over Emerald. I guess the same logic should apply to Crystal, but I haven't played Gen 2 that much, so I can't say.
I personally enjoyed ORAS more than XY. I found the revised story ( The Villains stealing the correct orb, and Brendan/May using the final evolved starter were welcome additions. ) and post game a lot better. You have: The Mega Stone hunt, Delta Episode, Mirage Islands, contests, Maison, and the Legendary Hunt. XY had the Mega Stone hunt, Post-game episode, and Maison, but that still rather small compared to ORAS.
I actually used it on my team for Shield. It wasn't terrible, but it could have been better.
That's the most common criticism of that game. Its not unpopular opinion. They did actually fix a lot though: Pokegear allowing more numbers, better levels for the Gym leaders, and more Johto Pokemon in the post game. They definitely did fix a lot from the originals.
And some of my other unpopular opinions: I think Rayquaza Is overrated. Don't get me wrong, I think its an amazing Pokemon, and its one of the best wallbreakers in history, but I always found its lore in the sense that it unique for becalming Kyogre and Groudon, while strong, isn't as amazing as the Sinnoh Dragons, which control time, space, and antimatter respectively and can literally destroy the universe at given any moment. The only reason it got a totally busted Mega Evolution was as fan service since Rayquaza placed 1st in Japanese Poll and Top 10 in the Google Poll.
Speaking of the Sinnoh Dragons, Palkia is my favorite of the three and I don't get why people dislike its design. It arm plates and wings are a reference to fish, which are found in the ocean, while its head resembles a goblin shark. They are references to pearls being found underwater. Its design is very complex that's all. And before you say it, and this is definitely an unpopular opinion, but I never noticed that Palkia had a " Phallic " appearance until reading the BW Uber analysis. I never noticed it until the author noticed it.
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One of my other huge pet peeves with Gen VII and VIII is the berry mechanic, actually. Losing half your berries every time you shake a tree is really annoying, especially if the Crabrawler / Skwovet happens to take the berry you care about (in this case healing berries) and leaves the berries you didn't want anyway. Not to mention sometimes trees just don't give you the berries you want and they're all useless.
There was nothing wrong with the previous berry mechanic. I have no idea why they changed it to an inferior system, especially with all of the other legitimately great quality of life changes for getting the most out of your team. It's such a bizarre regression in game design.
I'm a huge Rayquaza fan, I'd say it's in my top three favourite Pokemon, so I may be a little biased here, but I the think part of the point behind its lore is the aura of mystique that surrounds it. It's this giant flying serpent that lives in the ozone layer that's literally never seen and rarely, if ever (if it is, someone can correct me) mentioned in the story. Unlike the Sinnoh dragons, no-one really knows what Rayquaza is or even knows of its existence for that matter. So, I think that's part of the reason why its lore was left relatively bland and not massively fleshed out. Yes, it could be argued that mystique and intrigue surrounds literally every legendary and mythical, but the region of Sinnoh is designed around the themes of myths, legends and tradition, so of course the legendaries in those games are going to have an expansive back story. And yeah, even in comparison to other legendaries, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Arceus to an extent have pretty outrageous back stories and powers. I agree they really went all out in that regard. Maybe a little too over the top for my liking but each to their own. I do still like a bit of ambiguity about my legends and for them not to be too over the top. I don't really like Mega-Ray for this reason. But again, I digress, opinions. The themes stated above are made pretty apparent Sinnoh by the statue in Eterna city and the cave paintings in Celestic. People in Sinnoh seem to be more aware that the 'main' legendaries of their region exist and have some inkling as to what they are. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your opinion per say, but this is just my two cents on why the lore surrounding the above legendaries is the way it is and I acknowledge that I may not have fully grasped the point you were trying to make.
EDIT: I also realise that Dialga and Palkia apparently living in space (and time? Not sure how that works but Giratina lives in a parallel world so?) theoretically means people are even less likely to have seen them than Rayquaza, but the fact that statues exist of them would suggest otherwise and that they've made themselves known at some point.
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QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Unova limiting the selection before Gym #1 in BW is deliberate; it's to railroad the player into using their elemental monkey against the Striaton gym leaders. Pidove (which isn't available until Route 3) would give an advantage over Cilan, Roggenrola would give an advantage against Chili, and Blitzle would give an advantage against Cress.
huh, that makes a lot of sense.
The first two Unova Gyms in BW were meant to be tutorials.
Striaton Gym, as discussed, purposely puts the player at a disadvantage. Most likely a player would be relying on their Starter heavily early game which are purposely made stronger than the early route mons. Until the Gym you didn't deal with any Type Match-ups (it wouldn't be until Gen VI the Starters started with a STAB move) and all you did was selecting the strongest move you had. But then comes Striaton Gym where, uh oh, you're told your Starter's STAB will not only not do that much damage against the Gym Leader's Pokemon but also your Starter will be weak to the Gym Leader's! You're told maybe something in the Dreamyard can help you, and even after doing the story event there, you won't find a Pokemon who could have a Type Advantage unless you talk with the random girl NPC (she's not hard to find, but you're not prompted to talk with her; I guess in the way this also teaches the player to talk with NPCs as they sometimes give you helpful stuff). It's railroad-y sure but the other option would have used the Rival which would have felt a bit predictable, at least this way gets the player to a story event & makes the first Gym more memorable.
Nacrene Gym further the Type Match-up lesson. Sure, Lenora is a Normal-type Gym Leader so she has nothing super effective against you, but you don't have anything super effective against her and her Pokemon hit hard and have some devastating strategies that can easily knock out your Pokemon if you aren't expecting it. However you're then told if you go to the Route after the city there are a few Fighting-types there you can catch. This introduces the idea to new players that sometimes you may need to go out of your way to get a Pokemon that has a Type advantage over the Gym.
They're not bad ways to introduce the Type Match-up concept to new players and certainly makes the Striaton Triplets and Lenora memorable as a "that one boss... unless you do what the game says to beat them more easily". However since then they've just had the Rivals be the ones to teach you the Type Match-ups.
There's just one huge problem with that design.
The railroading murders any replayability.
You wanna replay BW1? You will have to either catch a puppy, grab the free win monkey, or pick up some deadweight.
There's no variety. The more you replay BW1, the more annoying this gets. You can muscle past Lenora on neutral matchups without grabbing a Timburr or a Sawk/Throh, but you will need a 2nd teammate for the Triplets, and despite the fact that your pool of available mons expand greatly just after the one required HM use in the entire game (to the point that ironically, you can catch a counter for the Triplets every time, you're still forced to build your team accounting to that one tutorial.
It's really annoying and frustrating to know that yes, I do have to use Lillipup every single time I'm not using the monkey because they're not even that impressive, to begin with.
Those are some good reasons, I understand why you like the Goomy line. I guess I just don't agree. I generally prefer pseudo-legendaries that are fierce, powerful and dangerous like Tyranitar, Metagross, Salamence, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Kommo-o and Dragapult. But what about Dragonite then? I like it too because I think it executed the concept of a "friendly" pseudo-legendary much better than Goodra. I like it way better than Goodra in terms of both design and battle performance. And as for the Goomy line, I am personally not a huge fan of mollusks in general either, but I do like the Shellos line.
Fair enough, and I agree, although I'd say it is more OR/AS than Emerald that made R/S obsolete for me. And my unpopular opinion is that I also find Emerald almost completely obsolete because of OR/AS as well. If it wasn't for the Battle Frontier, it would be completely obsolete, and even so, the Frontier alone is not really enough for me. I really hope saying this won't start the never-ending discussion of Emerald VS. OR/AS because I am very tired of it and I will probably not respond if anyone decides to reply to what I am saying here.
Regarding Gen 2, I think I would say the same about G/S being obsolete because of Crystal, though I'm not sure if I would be able to play Crystal either nowadays because of of how old it is.
It is the other way around for me. I liked X/Y better, the reasons are that they really gave me a feeling of newness which OR/AS failed at (since they were remakes of older games I had previously played), X/Y also had a larger regional dex with way better Pokémon variation, and the majority of the features in OR/AS were things that were re-used from either X/Y or R/S/E, which made them feel less new to me. That said, I still like OR/AS a lot as well and I agree with you about them having a better main story and post-game. But even so, I don't like them quite as much as X/Y.
I agree. Palkia is my favorite from the Sinnoh dragons as well. I have always liked it better than Dialga, ever since the early Gen 4 days. I think Palkia is awesome in terms of design, Dialga is quite cool too but is my least favorite of the Sinnoh dragons, and I find it a bit overrated as well. Palkia was also one of the big reasons I got Pearl before Diamond, and I have had more success with Palkia in battles than what I have had with with Dialga. Granted, that might be because I have used Palkia more than Dialga. I also like its typing over Dialga's, Palkia is also a bit faster which I highly appreciate, and Spacial Rend is a great signature move, way more useful than Roar of Time.
I also wanted to give my opinion on Nickit/Thievul since it came up. I used a Thievul on my in-game team in Sword, Nickit was one of the first new Pokémon I saw in the games and I instantly decided to go with it on my team after seeing it since I love foxes. Unfortunately, it was a bit disappointing and it ended up becoming one of the three members of my in-game team that I dropped (the other two were Alcremie and Dubwool). Though it was partly my own fault, I should have taught it some better moves through TM/TR. Notably Dark Pulse, as it now was I relied on Snarl for its main special STAB, which was very bad. But also something more for better coverage, such as Grass Knot. Full details for my set and more of my thoughts about the fox can be found here if anyone wants to read more about it. In the end, I agree that Nickit/Thievul was a bit disappointing, which is a shame since they are such cool Pokémon.
Sorry to be that guy, but I'll try to keep it brief and (hopefully) not too controversial so as not to prod the hornet's nest. I'm assuming this topic has been discussed at length here guessing by your comment, but I'll weigh in and say that I personally enjoy Emerald and ORAS equally (maybe that's an unpopular view? Who knows) for similar and differing reasons. Emerald for nostalgia reasons (which isn't hugely valid admittedly) and the battle frontier, which I think is the definitive version across the franchise. But also because I actually prefer the art direction and music in Emerald and even, somewhat more controversially, the old school battle mechanics in gen three in some instances. Overall I think Emerald just has so much more charm as a game than ORAS which keeps me coming back to it despite not being the definitive version of Hoenn. It just has a better 'vibe' to me. I don't really know how to explain it. Old school charm isn't a huge deciding factor for everyone I admit - ORAS is far more streamlined graphically and mechanically and I completely understand the appeal of this. Equally, ORAS also gives me nostalgia for Emerald (so nostalgia-ception?) and as mentioned the updated graphics and qaulity of life features are hugely welcomed.
Following on from this however, I'm not personally convinced Pokemon was best going fully 3D. Or if they did, make it a compromise between 2D and 3D (i.e. battles in 2D with a 3D overworld). Maybe not too much of an unpopular opinion (and apologies if it's been discussed to death again), but I'll explain if anyone is remotely interested.
The graphical changes in the jump to 3D do lead onto an interesting discussion that I saw highlighted in a Youtube video recently. In the 3D games character movement still functions as if the player is in a 2D world for whatever reason. And by that I mean the character movements (this is very obvious in gen 6) are extremely awkward. In gen 6, character movement is still based on a tile system that goes off of the basis that there are only four possible directions the player can move in, even when using the circle pad. Every other element of the games are in 3D however. In trying to make the games more realistic in the transition to 3D, they argubly made them less so (the term 'uncanny valley' was used to desribe this is in the video I believe). I've not played SwSh, but this is apparent in the game's cities (from what I've seen) that give the illusion of being massive and vibrant but just feel completely empty due to all of the houses looking the same (internally and externally) and there hardly being any people being in the streets or any cars even though there are roads? However, before the 3D games, using Pewter City and gen three as an example, we know that in real life houses are not bigger on the inside than the outside (please let me know if you know of such a wonder however) and that a city will not have just have four or five buildings. We ignore this because we know that what we're looking at through the screen is an abstract version of the Pokemon world that is supposed to represent a world that could be real. We let our imagination fill in the rest. I'll stop here before I go off on too much of a tangent however. But my point is, I don't necessarily think Pokemon games should go down the path of being as realistic as possible. Two games the video highlighted that successfully combine a 3D overworld with 2D elements are Octopath Traveler and Link's Awakwning, which both have art syles that could be perfect for a Pokemon game.
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I honestly disagree with that sentiment tbh. The problem with GF's move to 3D is that they keep trying to have their cake and eat it too.
Every franchise that went 3D actually broke several conventions to do so. Compare XY to Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time and then DP, their actual first steps with Pokémon in 3D.
There were significant changes especially regarding movement, and GF did not take that step. Even in SwSh, where the protag is finally controllable with the analog stick properly, the NPC's move with the smoothness of a Ferrothorn.
The other main argument, the non-expressive Pokémon models, are a by-product of washed-out colors in their textures and atrocious idle animations.
So basically, what this boils down to is not 3D being bad, (It most surely isn't or PBR wouldn't be seen as it is right now.) but Game Freak not digging deep and doing things right.
Haha yep, that's exactly where I got it from lol.
Hmm yeah, I definitely agree with your points about the Pokemon models and animations and I completely overlooked that fact that technically DP were the first use of 3D in Pokemon. I can also see that moving to 3D is not inherently bad and I agree that, if Game Freak actually implemented it correctly, the Pokemon games could undoubtedly look fantastic in full 3D. It's just that they've not fully realised it yet, like you say, which makes me hesitant to think that it is still the correct direction. So you're right that I shouldn't write it off so wholeheartedly just yet. I think I'm also just a sucker for the graphical styles that I mentioned above, and gen five.
Yeah, basically, imo the main problem isn't that Pokemon doesn't work in 3D, the problem is that Game Freak is still inherently stuck in the same mindset as if they were developing a 2D Pokemon game. As you said, the recent 3D Pokemon games still function as the 2D games in many ways, and that's basically the thing: GF is still looking at the more recent mainline games as if they were pre-Gen 5 and approaching and designing them the same way they would those games.
Game Freak needs to change their approach to designing Pokemon games in 3D if they want to deliver truly outstanding experiences on that front. There's a lot of potential for Pokemon to have fantastic 3D experiences, but GF needs to think beyond as if it were a 2D adventure like the first five gens. Especially in terms of route design, movement, battles and camera perspective, and vice versa. The real problem is that every game is still being designed with the same mentality as Gen 3, and they're still locked in the 2D era mentality even with the transition to 3D.
They're fundamentally not really shaking things up enough and that's where the issue is: Game Freak is incredibly resistant to making major revolutionary changes to the Pokemon formula these days, and everything in the games is still built like and designed like the games from the Gen 3 era which were almost 20 years ago. Pokemon *can* work in 3D, but Game Freak needs to design map design and gameplay/navigation to better accommodate 3D world design, which they're not doing enough of.
Not disagreeing with you at all, but what do you think are some ways a truly good 3d Pokemon game could work?
Well that's up for debate and I think a lot of people would have different ideas, but a few from me personally:
- The first, and key thing that comes to mind is changing up the way battles work. I think there's been a lot of complaining especially with Sword and Shield that the way battles exist now makes them too tedious. "X used this move" "It's super effective!", "Y used boosting move", "Y's stat rose!", and vice versa and it happening sequentially with the animations, and all that taking a grand total of 20-30 second maybe, even worse with Dynamax animations. There's a lot of unnecessary tedium in that regard. People have also been giving SwSh flack for the move animations, with are still acting as though these are 2D Pokemon game animations. There's a lot of potential for battles to be better and more dynamic with 3D Pokemon games, maybe even something more in line with how they're done in the anime, and with way better and more dynamic move animations and Pokemon movements that make battles all the more lively. Granted, making them like the anime is a bit of a stretch, but there's potential to move towards there especially in a 3D graphical space.
- The route exploration and design is another key factor to me. Routes in the recent games are still in a top-down perspective and still designed from a 2D perspective. Mainland Galar in Sword and Shield has a lot of cases of corridor syndrome with many of its routes and the routes are just too linear and don't incentivize much exploration at all. On one hand, I think the Wild Areas, especially the Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra from the DLC, show a lot of promise and are a step in the right direction, and I think if Game Freak could go that route in designing future regions and routes I think there's a lot of potential to have an incredibly compelling Pokemon region to explore in 3D! Full on camera rotation and control stick movement, and dynamic environments and perhaps some interesting designs to make the routes more lively, dynamic, and explorable. HMs are an outdated mechanic, granted, but having ways in which you can bring a Pokemon with you and have it help you explore and navigate obstacles in an environment is still also something they could work on without having to use Hidden Machines. Sword and Shield's mainland Galar has shown that they still don't really know how to design good routes without that. There are perhaps other ways in which routes could become more dynamic and explorable and actually compelling to explore that other people could think of.
- Now granted, they don't need to be totally "open-world" and non-linear, and there can still be a linear progression between cities and routes, and there needs to be given that Pokemon is an RPG. But make each route in itself dynamic and create incentive to explore and make it feel truly alive in 3D and we could have some really great regions in 3D. Unova in particular has a lot of potential if Game Freak breaks out of their current mentality.
- With routes in general, adding on to the above they should arguably be more wider and cover more area to be a dynamic place instead of straight paths like before. The later 2D games like Gens 4 and 5 managed to deliver incredibly great and dynamic routes, especially BW2, despite their inherent limitations, and have more to do in them to accommodate 3D perspective. Cities especially need a good deal of buffing up to them. Add more to them, like have more notable attractions and buildings to draw more attention to them and have compelling, explorable buildings inside of them that make the world feel more alive in that sense.
I'm sure there are a lot more ways they could deliver a stronger 3D Pokemon experience, but these are the main things that come to mind for me. There's a lot of potential, but Game Freak really needs to think outside the box and really work with that potential to improve 3D Pokemon games.
To go a bit more in on that, I'm bringing up Battle Revolutions again. When a Pokemon attacked the camera didn't just sit in front of or behind the Pokemon as the attack happened. No, the camera was more dynamic and getting in more visual angles like multiple still shot angles (from above, below, eye level; granted I think this was probably more a Pokemon-by-Pokemon basis but it is one idea they could use), following behind or next to the Pokemon as it moves into the attack (the camera angle also hiding the "contact" of the attack giving the illusion it "hit"), and sometimes giving us a point-of-view of the defending Pokemon as the attack is unleashed with a sudden switch to the defending Pokemon reeling back.
The Pokemon battles can still be turn-based, but that doesn't mean the camera can't take advantage of the 3D space it now exists in.
i wonder what would happen if pokemon used a battle system more like fire emblem's? allow them to move around the battlefield.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
yeah, a friend of mine talked about it having a similar system.