Unpopular opinions

[Suspicious Derivative]

Here's another reason you couldn't have previous protags show up: gender options. There was no choice in RBY, you had to be Red. So there was no-one else who could appear in Mt Silver. But I recall when HGSS came out people were frantically speculating as to whether Leaf would appear in Red's place. It was honestly quite relentless for a time.

This, too. Why couldn't Leaf have been anywhere in HG/SS alongside Red? Or why couldn't it have been Leaf instead of Red? Regarding the former, one idea I have seen floating around is to make Leaf a Frontier Brain. I think that would be great because it would solve another problem with HG/SS at the same time. It would allow HG/SS to have different Frontier Brains than Platinum, would make it feel more interesting to go through the Frontier a second time. For me, at least.

Also, the same problem comes up regarding the concept of the protagonists from other games returning in any games after the games where they were playable. How would their gender be determined? Or would both of them appear at the same time? There's just too many issues for this idea to work properly if you ask me, and I am glad we have never gotten to see anything like it besides Red (and Green in LGP/E).

Sometimes less is more, and I firmly believe that this is a case in point. As interesting as it is that the BW protagonist remains absent in B2W2, allegedly voyaging in a far-off region searching for N (and possibly getting into brand-new adventures) I don't expect or hope that we'll ever see it. It is far, far more interesting to have that be left unseen than it would be to show it - and it wouldn't really add anything to the overall Unova plot unless we ever get a third installment.

I agree with all of this too. One thing I really like with B2/W2 was how they handled Memory Link. If you used Memory Link, you got to see the name you gave to your character from B/W, not just their default name. And if you didn't use Memory Link, they would never be named, just referred to as "that trainer", like you said. I thought this was amazing and I loved it. Yet another thing with the sequel aspect that I think B2/W2 did better than G/S/C or HG/SS.

In comparison, I never really got the same feeling from meeting Red in the Johto games. Seeing what was supposed to be "me" (or rather my player character from R/B/Y or FR/LG), but said character having a team I had no connection to as well as being named "Red" just didn't work for me. I never named any of my player characters in the Kanto games "Red", so him being named that way just took away the feeling it was supposed to give, unlike if he had carried the name I had given to my player character in the Kanto games.

The one way this is possible is if you bought an older DS model a long time ago and later bought an updated one, like me who has both a DS Lite and a DSi because I upgraded to the latter some years after I bought my DS Lite, more specifically around 3 years later.

Not necessarily. There are also those like me who own 2 DS lite. This gave me the ability to trade and connect with myself whenever I wanted, without having to rely on someone else. I actually never owned a DSi, never saw the need to get one when I already had my 2 DS lite when the DSi was announced. As for why I have 2 DS lite, I had originally planned to get an original DS, but by the time I finally got around to it, the DS lite already existed. So I got a lite instead. And when I got my second one, the DSi didn't exist yet.

I also thought a bit more about Memory Link since it was discussed here. First of all, HG/SS definitely had the option to have a Memory Link (or something similar to it) through Dual-slot mode, but they didn't, and I think that's a big wasted opportunity (like pretty much everything else with HG/SS). Now that I look back, I wish HG/SS had used Dual-slot mode more than they did. Unless I'm forgetting something, they only really used it for Pal Park. While D/P/P didn't use it that much more than HG/SS, it was a little more at least. I thought the Dongle method for encountering Pokémon you otherwise couldn't find was really cool and fun. It would have been great if HG/SS had done something similar, they could at least have utilized R/S/E to let you encounter Hoenn Pokémon through this method. Not sure about FR/LG though, HG/SS are already filled to the brim with Kanto Pokémon everywhere and there's absolutely no point in making the Kanto Pokémon even more common. Maybe FR/LG could have made the Johto Pokémon more common instead? Oh, the irony! Or allowed you to meet Sinnoh Pokémon, though that feels very out of place. With all of that said, I guess one reason HG/SS didn't use Dual-slot that much was because when they were released, the newest DS version was the DSi, which did not allow for insertion of GBA carts. Perhaps that's why.

In comparison, I loved Memory Link in B2/W2. Everything about it was amazing, and I think the overall execution was great too as it could be used through either local wireless or online (though not anymore since the PGL has closed, sadly). I think B2/W2 absolutely nailed the sequel aspect for a Pokémon game, and while G/S/C and HG/SS got some things right, it feels like they were just sort of beta testing how to do a proper sequel. Thankfully they could use those experiences to do B2/W2 right later on.

There's another thing I want to bring up when it comes to these subjects. Apparently, there was a planned battle against the B/W protagonist at the PWT in B2/W2 according to the beta, but it was scrapped. More info about it can be found on Bulbapedia here or TCRF here. While I am happy that this was scrapped, I would have been okay with it because of one thing. It shows that when the previous protagonist was to be battled, they had actual dialogue instead of being silent NPCs. On a similar note, I would also have been okay with the return of Red in the Johto games (and all other games he had reappeared in) if they had given him a personality and dialogue instead of making him silent. Too bad they didn't. While I haven't played LGP/E, I am actually okay with Green being an NPC in these games because they gave her dialogue and some personality, which seems great.

Sorry if this got too deep into speculation/wishlisting, I just wanted to make some replies and write down some more thoughts on these subjects.

Also, congrats to this thread for hitting 400 pages! Pretty sure it is the largest thread in OI at this point. 400 pages of unpopular opinions and discussions about them... crazy. Here's to 400 more!

 

[Siggu]

Now that I look back, I wish HG/SS had used Dual-slot mode more than they did.

If I were to think of a reason, it might have something to do with the fact the DSi was already released by the point HGSS were released, so there was no real benefit in giving Dual-slot mode more features.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

If I were to think of a reason, it might have something to do with the fact the DSi was already released by the point HGSS were released, so there was no real benefit in giving Dual-slot mode more features.

You mean, just like I said at a somewhat later point in the very post you are quoting?

With all of that said, I guess one reason HG/SS didn't use Dual-slot that much was because when they were released, the newest DS version was the DSi, which did not allow for insertion of GBA carts. Perhaps that's why.

...

But it seems like we are thinking the same thing regarding this, so that's cool.

 

[Magnus0]

I think the gen 2 gym leaders aren't as bad as people say, at least not in concept. I really appreciate that some of the bosses in HGSS use some kind of gimmick or strategy, often revolving around the tm they give away. For example, Chuck's signature move is focus punch, so he uses two different ways of avoiding getting hit, double team and hypnosis. This is actually really clever design, because it offers a unique challenge, and it also showcases the potential of the shiny new tm you get as a reward for beating Chuck.

Pryce's team is about hail stall. He has one hail setter, and two Pokemon that use the hail to stall you out. Dewgong has resttalk, which completely shuts down weaker Pokemon while they get chipped away by the hail. Piloswine attempts to stall with snow cloak. It also has mud bomb, which further reduces accuracy, and blizzard, which becomes perfectly accurate in hail. Even ice fang can help Piloswine avoid getting hit by flinching or freezing the opponent. Obviously, the execution of this hail stall team is shoddy at best, but I think it's clear that some thought went into Pryce's strategy.

Even the gym leaders that give away a move that doesn't lend itself well to gimmick strategy (like Morty) have a gimmick, it just doesn't revolve around his signature move. Morty's entire team uses status conditions. He has two Pokemon that use the mean look + curse combo, while his remaining Pokemon have hypnosis. The haunter with hypnosis even has dream eater and nightmare to take advantage of hypnosis.

Even some of the kanto leaders have their own gimmick. Lt. Surge is a bastard cheater with double team spam, Erika has a full on chlorophyl sunnybeam team (with terrible coverage) and Blaine uses white herb overheat on all of his Pokemon. Again, the execution of all of these teams could be a lot better, but at least they tried.

It's not often that you see this approach to boss design in Pokemon. The best example of gimmicks and team synergy would probably be the totem fights from gen 7. Other than that, most bosses are just a gauntlet of Pokemon that are just strong in general, rather than a team of Pokemon that contribute to a larger strategy. There's nothing really wrong with that per se, but I like the more gimmicky teams. They can catch you off guard more easily and that makes them more memorable.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I would like to see a region based on Columbia. Why? Columbia is the most bio-diverse country on earth, home to bears, big cats, birds of prey and much much more. It has lots of diversity in terms of scenery. And before anybody makes jokes about cocaine, much more of Columbia’s GDP comes from nickel, coffee and gold.

 

[Pikachu315111]

And before anybody makes jokes about cocaine, much more of Columbia’s GDP comes from nickel, coffee and gold.

Pfft, no one thinks of cocaine when they think of Columbia anymore...

They think of blimps and rails

 

[Bakugames]

We'll agree to disagree on this point. I really don't see how Johto could be viewed as anything but inferior to Kanto, be it technologically, quality of Pokémon wise, or ownership of Indigo Plateau. Which is completely fine because it goes along with the theme I brought up earlier.

The main issue is that I think the pokémon sucking is just gamefreak not knowing game balance. I don't think they'd do something like that intentionally for this narrative lol.

It's also extremely hard to believe the argument that Johto is lagging behind technology advancements when they use the exact same, if not better, Kanto systems. The pokémon center got upgraded with extra areas and a better PC, they have a whole train system going on with Kanto, a radio tower, a brand new phone system that connects to it and shows you the map, hell prof. elm's lab literally looks like an upgrade of oak's. Just because the region focus on maintaining its culture instead of assimilating to Kanto's urbanization, doesn't mean they're struggling behind with technology. This is a mirror of the differences of real-life Japanese provinces. Some are more rural, some are more modern, but most enjoy similar technological advances available to them.

 

[Wukong]

The main issue is that I think the pokémon sucking is just gamefreak not knowing game balance. I don't think they'd do something like that intentionally for this narrative lol.

It's also extremely hard to believe the argument that Johto is lagging behind technology advancements when they use the exact same, if not better, Kanto systems. The pokémon center got upgraded with extra areas and a better PC, they have a whole train system going on with Kanto, a radio tower, a brand new phone system that connects to it and shows you the map, hell prof. elm's lab literally looks like an upgrade of oak's. Just because the region focus on maintaining its culture instead of assimilating to Kanto's urbanization, doesn't mean they're struggling behind with technology. This is a mirror of the differences of real-life Japanese provinces. Some are more rural, some are more modern, but most enjoy similar technological advances available to them.

I agree with your first point, but I don't take away points from GSC or HGSS just because GF didn't intentionally design them a certain way. The end result is what I'm mainly focused on, not GF's design philosophy. A lot of great innovations happen by accident.

You bring up some interesting points about technology. Looking at each one:

1. I don't think it's clear that the upgraded Pokémon Center or PC originated in Johto. As the GSC protagonist you see them for the first time in Johto since that's where you start. But those same upgrades exist in Kanto when you visit the region later in the game. We know these innovations mainly stem from Bill. It seems to me Bill is a Goldenrod native who does most of his experimentation and invention in his cottage north of Cerulean (ex. the teleporter). I think there's a high chance Bill implemented these systems in Kanto first only to later bring them to his native region Johto. But let's call this a wash.

2. The Magnet Train is not owned by either Goldenrod or Saffron City. It's inspired by a real life train that runs between Osaka and Tokyo, owned by a company that isn't affiliated with either. Again, you see this for the first time in Johto through the eyes of the GSC protagonist but that doesn't mean it belongs to or originated in Johto. You could argue it belongs to Kanto since they actually own the Plant that powers the train, but let's call this a wash too.

3. Kanto also has a Radio Tower which replaced the Pokémon Tower in Lavender Town. Again, just because we see the Goldenrod Radio Tower first in the games doesn't mean they implemented it first in the three years between RBY and GSC.

4. I don't see how Elm's lab looks more advanced than Oak's. Aesthetically they look pretty similar aside from generational differences. But maybe that's just me.

These all even out. What puts Kanto over the top for me technologically are three things:

1. Silph Co. - Kanto takes a massive lead in tech by having the leading manufacturer of Poke Balls, medicine, repels and TMs located in its region. Johto has nothing which even remotely compares. Oh and that fancy Pokegear you receive at the beginning of HGSS? That has a Silph logo on it. Interesting.

2. Fossils - Kanto builds on its lead by having the technology to resurrect fossils. That's pretty extraordinary. Johto, interestingly, is one of only two regions to not even have fossils native to its region let alone the technology to resurrect them.

3. Legendaries - Kanto closes the case for me by taking one look at their legendaries. Johto has Ho-Oh and Lugia, more or less the God of the Sun and Sea, respectively. Mythical creatures. Kanto has Mewtwo, a man made creation and marvel of genetic engineering. Hmm.

I think it's pretty clear Kanto not only blows Johto out of the water technologically, it might be the most technologically advanced region in all of Pokémon. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Bakugames]

These all even out. What puts Kanto over the top for me technologically are three things:

1. Silph Co. - Kanto takes a massive lead in tech by having the leading manufacturer of Poke Balls, medicine, repels and TMs located in its region. Johto has nothing which even remotely compares. Oh and that fancy Pokegear you receive at the beginning of HGSS? That has a Silph logo on it. Interesting.

2. Fossils - Kanto builds on its lead by having the technology to resurrect fossils. That's pretty extraordinary. Johto, interestingly, is one of only two regions to not even have fossils native to its region let alone the technology to resurrect them.

3. Legendaries - Kanto closes the case for me by taking one look at their legendaries. Johto has Ho-Oh and Lugia, more or less the God of the Sun and Sea, respectively. Mythological figures. Kanto has Mewtwo, a man made creation and marvel of genetic engineering. Hmm.

I think it's pretty clear Kanto not only blows Johto out of the water technologically, it might be the most technologically advanced region in all of Pokémon. Feel free to disagree.

I think the issue is that while Kanto is a big technology manufacturer, that technology is also extremely accessible to a johtonian citizen. It's a bit hard for me to grasp Johto lagging behind, actually, because to explain better, it feels less like the difference between, let's say, Kyoto and Saga, but the difference between Shimogyō-ku and Ukyō-ku, two of the Kyoto wards. The former is clearly a more technological and administrative scape. High urbanization, all that jazz. Ukyō-ku has a lot more of the traditional and the culture going on there. Sure, Shimigyō-ku holds more of the companies and factories, but that doesn't mean Ukyō-ku isn't advanced by itself, it's actually one of the more advanced regions of Japan (and Kyoto in general). They're sister wards, one needing the other for something.

That's the dynamic I get from Kanto and Johto. In fact, I'd argue Kanto is inferior, as it succumbed to urbanization and lost its touch with its own culture, something Johto could easily balance.

 

[Wukong]

I think the issue is that while Kanto is a big technology manufacturer, that technology is also extremely accessible to a johtonian citizen. It's a bit hard for me to grasp Johto lagging behind, actually, because to explain better, it feels less like the difference between, let's say, Kyoto and Saga, but the difference between Shimogyō-ku and Ukyō-ku, two of the Kyoto wards. The former is clearly a more technological and administrative scape. High urbanization, all that jazz. Ukyō-ku has a lot more of the traditional and the culture going on there. Sure, Shimigyō-ku holds more of the companies and factories, but that doesn't mean Ukyō-ku isn't advanced by itself, it's actually one of the more advanced regions of Japan (and Kyoto in general). They're sister wards, one needing the other for something.

That's the dynamic I get from Kanto and Johto. In fact, I'd argue Kanto is inferior, as it succumbed to urbanization and lost its touch with its own culture, something Johto could easily balance.

Fair enough. Just to use the US as perhaps a more relatable example: Kanto is like Silicon Valley, a huge exporter of all kinds of technology. Just because parts of the Deep South have easy access to this technology in today's day and age, doesn't mean you can put Silicon Valley and the Deep South on equal footing as regions when judging them technologically. One is clearly more advanced than the other.

And I get your cultural point but it's subjective. I see San Francisco as more influential in the US today (for better or for worse) than say for example Philadelphia. The former specializes in tech while the latter's main draw is culture and history.

I guess I'm not saying Kanto is inherently superior to Johto so much as it is more influential. Kanto fits the bigger brother mold of getting the cool toys and gadgets first, only to hand them down to their little brother Johto. Johto might give off a more humane vibe by way of its culture but that doesn't mean it has the same kind of power and influence as Kanto. This fits nicely into an underdog narrative.

Anyway let's agree to disagree. I don't want to get too off topic plus there's not much else I can say in support of my argument.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I think it's pretty clear Kanto not only blows Johto out of the water technologically, it might be the most technologically advanced region in all of Pokémon. Feel free to disagree.

Than Johto? Sure (though my previous argument wasn't that Kanto wasn't more technically advanced, it is, but that Johto wasn't "behind the times" but rather was focused on its culture and traditions which it seems to have more of than Kanto. Does that mean Kanto didn't have its own culture and tradition that might have been worth preserving? No, but probably not as much as Johto which is why Kanto went the more technological route as it just didn't have to worry that much about paving over landmarks).

But the rest of the world? I feel Galar had just taken that crown, though even before than I'd say Unova took it from Kanto. You could make an argument whether Kalos may have also had a shot, as well as ORAS's version of Hoenn, but Galar is probably the most modern region we have having 3 major cities which you are very technological in their own way (Motostoke is very steampunk, Hammerlocke has the powe plant, and Wyndon you could probably see from space when it's night there).

 

[Wukong]

Than Johto? Sure (though my previous argument wasn't that Kanto wasn't more technically advanced, it is, but that Johto wasn't "behind the times" but rather was focused on its culture and traditions which it seems to have more of than Kanto. Does that mean Kanto didn't have its own culture and tradition that might have been worth preserving? No, but probably not as much as Johto which is why Kanto went the more technological route as it just didn't have to worry that much about paving over landmarks).

I did caveat that point by saying Johto was behind the times "in comparison", in this case to Kanto. For which I outlined all the reasons in my last two posts. Johto choosing to focus on culture comes at a cost, in this case the cost being diverting its attention away from other fields such as tech.

And I am not advocating tech is better than culture or the inverse. It doesn't matter what my personal opinion is on that subject. What matters is me objectively assessing the regions and observing in my view that they fit into a narrative of one region being more powerful than the other in multiple facets, with the less powerful region needing to prove its strength. Me saying Johto is less advanced than Kanto is not meant to be negative; it's positive because it further fuels this narrative and is a big plus for GSC and HGSS. There's not much else I can say about it.

But the rest of the world? I feel Galar had just taken that crown, though even before than I'd say Unova took it from Kanto. You could make an argument whether Kalos may have also had a shot, as well as ORAS's version of Hoenn, but Galar is probably the most modern region we have having 3 major cities which you are very technological in their own way (Motostoke is very steampunk, Hammerlocke has the powe plant, and Wyndon you could probably see from space when it's night there).

Fair enough, there are other contenders. I did say Kanto "might" be the most technologically advanced, opening the possibility for others. The only opinion I feel truly strong about is Kanto beating Johto in tech, which is the only opinion that really matters as it pertains to GSC and HGSS.

It is worth noting that Kanto contains the city inspired by Tokyo (Saffron City) which is considered by many to be the most technologically advanced city in the real world. Which might be true to form considering the presence of Silph Co. and the Magnet Train in Saffron. It would be unfair to judge Kanto and Galar on the surface considering the former was first introduced over 25 years ago and the latter was released less than 2 years ago. There will naturally be huge generational differences. I think it would be more fair to judge the regions by what they represent, as the Pokémon equivalent of Japan and the U.K., respectively. The U.K and London are certainly very advanced, but Japan and specifically Tokyo have them beat by quite a bit in tech. And as advanced as the U.S and NYC are I still think Japan/Tokyo beats them, and by extension Kanto beating Unova in tech.

Again, I don't feel as strongly about this as my Kanto versus Johto comparison but those are my two cents.

 

[pokemon4eva]

When rewatching, there's something I didn't like about the final battle with Paul.

Simply put, Paul didn't bring up his best mons, instead using some never before seen team. Paul started losing mons quick, and there's a bit of dialogue from Brock that bothers me: Paul apparently planned this. Why? In order to lure Ash into a false sense of security.

I'm sorry but, what DUMBASS ever does that?! He basically just sacked a third of its team, in the quarterfinal match, and THAT'S CALLED A GOOD STRATEGY?! I was already bothered that Paul doesn't bring some of its stronger mons like Torterra and Ursaring, but then the writing justifies this choke as being actually genius. Seriously, does Paul ever take the L when isn't against a veteran trainer?

 

[The Mind Electric]

When rewatching, there's something I didn't like about the final battle with Paul.
View attachment 360736

Simply put, Paul didn't bring up his best mons, instead using some never before seen team. Paul started losing mons quick, and there's a bit of dialogue from Brock that bothers me: Paul apparently planned this. Why? In order to lure Ash into a false sense of security.

I'm sorry but, what DUMBASS ever does that?! He basically just sacked a third of its team, in the quarterfinal match, and THAT'S CALLED A GOOD STRATEGY?! I was already bothered that Paul doesn't bring some of its stronger mons like Torterra and Ursaring, but then the writing justifies this choke as being actually genius. Seriously, does Paul ever take the L when isn't against a veteran trainer?

Why didn't Paul just bring an entire team of strong new Pokémon to completely destroy any plan Ash had going in? Sure, it wouldn't actually do anything because Ash almost never has a plan more complex than brute-forcing wins with the power of friendship, but it would at least be a decent idea in theory.

 

[pokemon4eva]

Why didn't Paul just bring an entire team of strong new Pokémon to completely destroy any plan Ash had going in? Sure, it wouldn't actually do anything because Ash almost never has a plan more complex than brute-forcing wins with the power of friendship, but it would at least be a decent idea in theory.

I can see that happening, it kinda reminds me of Blue in Adventures, whose title as Dex Holder is Trainer, he constantly shakes up his team and trains up new members for combat. Although Paul was doing pretty good in the league with his regular team, sweeping Barry with ease. I'd like to think he overstimated Ash and that costed him the win lol.

 

[mertyville]

I can see that happening, it kinda reminds me of Blue in Adventures, whose title as Dex Holder is Trainer, he constantly shakes up his team and trains up new members for combat. Although Paul was doing pretty good in the league with his regular team, sweeping Barry with ease. I'd like to think he overstimated Ash and that costed him the win lol.

not only that, he taunted Infernape to go all out. He could have won in so many situations, but chose to let his Pokemon knocked out especially his E-Vire.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

not only that, he taunted Infernape to go all out. He could have won in so many situations, but chose to let his Pokemon knocked out especially his E-Vire.

To be fair, Electivire itself was also egging Infernape on to go all out on it. Electivire was eager to keep battling Infernape to the bitter end and it was more than happy to see Infernape not only go out and unleash its full power but to also finally be defeated by it, going down with a smile.

Infernape's rivalry with Electivire was a big part of the DP series and this was the peak of it all. Electivire always looked down on Infernape but it still wished to see its rival go all out at that point, knowing it had that much potential.

 

[Wukong]

Simply put, Paul didn't bring up his best mons, instead using some never before seen team. Paul started losing mons quick, and there's a bit of dialogue from Brock that bothers me: Paul apparently planned this. Why? In order to lure Ash into a false sense of security.

I'm sorry but, what DUMBASS ever does that?! He basically just sacked a third of its team, in the quarterfinal match, and THAT'S CALLED A GOOD STRATEGY?! I was already bothered that Paul doesn't bring some of its stronger mons like Torterra and Ursaring, but then the writing justifies this choke as being actually genius. Seriously, does Paul ever take the L when isn't against a veteran trainer?

To be fair that wasn't Ash's best team either. Both trainers really only brought two of their best six Pokémon to that fight, Ash bringing Infernape and Pikachu, and Paul bringing Electivire and Drapion. Seemed pretty even to me and a well earned win for Ash.

I do agree though that Paul is overhyped as some strategic genius. He kept that fight close mainly because his Electivire and Drapion hard carried his team through sheer battling prowess, not because of some amazing strategy. Ash even out maneuvered him a couple times, most notably using Flare Blitz on the ground to hurt Ninjask and eliminate Toxic Spikes, preventing Pikachu from being poisoned which turned out to be huge.

But Paul was still Ash's best rival in my opinion due to the dichotomy of their views on Pokémon. And that fight, particularly Infernape versus Electivire, is still the best battle in the series for me.

To the extent that I wish they ended Ash's arc after that battle, with that being the final round of the Lily of the Valley Conference. And cast a new protagonist for the Unova series. The Sinnoh series felt like a culmination of all the previous series where Ash was now a competent trainer and had very little upward growth left to experience by the end of it. Which is why they hard reset him to turn him back into an idiot in Unova because his character development had basically ended by the end of Sinnoh.

Overcoming Paul would have been the perfect closing chapter for Ash. And yes, that means no Ash-Greninja which might make this opinion unpopular and on topic for this thread. But I really think that would have been the best way to execute his arc.

 

[ZettaiRyouiki]

I feel, competitive battle prowess aside, a lot of us would be happy with no Ash-Greninja.

 

[pokemon4eva]

To be fair that wasn't Ash's best team either. Both trainers really only brought two of their best six Pokémon to that fight, Ash bringing Infernape and Pikachu, and Paul bringing Electivire and Drapion. Seemed pretty even to me and a well earned win for Ash.

I do agree though that Paul is overhyped as some strategic genius. He kept that fight close mainly because his Electivire and Drapion hard carried his team through sheer battling prowess, not because of some amazing strategy. Ash even out maneuvered him a couple times, most notably using Flare Blitz on the ground to hurt Ninjask and eliminate Toxic Spikes, preventing Pikachu from being poisoned which turned out to be huge.

But Paul was still Ash's best rival in my opinion due to the dichotomy of their views on Pokémon. And that fight, particularly Infernape versus Electivire, is still the best battle in the series for me.

To the extent that I wish they ended Ash's arc after that battle, with that being the final round of the Lily of the Valley Conference. And cast a new protagonist for the Unova series. The Sinnoh series felt like a culmination of all the previous series where Ash was now a competent trainer and had very little upward growth left to experience by the end of it. Which is why they hard reset him to turn him back into an idiot in Unova because his character development had basically ended by the end of Sinnoh.

Overcoming Paul would have been the perfect closing chapter for Ash. And yes, that means no Ash-Greninja which might make this opinion unpopular and on topic for this thread. But I really think that would have been the best way to execute his arc.

Oh true, this is still my favorite battle of the Pokemon anime, those details kinda bother me but in the end those can be easily overlooked. Infernape deserved that win against Electivire 100% just like how Ash deserved to beat Paul once and for all, who used to oppose his way of training mons.

No Ash Greninja needed that's for sure, seriously, isn't the broken and awesome Protean ability enough? Infernape's super mode was due to its ability Blaze and it still required proper control, no chosen-one legends needed.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I thought Ash-Greninja was pretty darn cool in the anime and I really liked his Greninja overall in terms of its character arc and the mastery of its Bond Phenomenon with Ash made for a very cool development that reflected Ash's own character in a sense. As someone who is a sucker for shonen type action and loves Greninja as a Pokémon to death, seeing Ash-Greninja in action was hella cool and I loved seeing such an awesome Pokémon pull off such epic battles in the League and in Wulfric's Gym Battle.

What I don't like about it is two things: the first is that Ash-Greninja being a special Bond Phenomenon transformation did in a sense feel like the writers didn't want Ash to use Mega Evolution and so gave his Greninja its own little anime-exclusive transformation that was similar, despite the fact that he literally had a handful of Pokémon in back that he could pull off Mega Evolution with (namely, Charizard and Sceptile, of course). This is despite Mega Evolution literally being one of Gen 6's defining features, and Greninja not having any special transformation in-game in XY or even ORAS.

The other is that I am still a bit miffed and find it unfair that they only gave Greninja that special transformation and made it usable in-game while leaving the other two Kalos starters in the dust. I understand that Greninja is extremely popular and was the instant fan fave over the other two and to this day is still one of the most iconic Pokémon of all time (and rightfully so, the mon is cool as fuck), it is still ridiculously biased that Greninja gets all the special attention while they leave Delphox and Chesnaught in the shadows like that. Yes, Charizard getting two Megas is also bias, but at least Venusaur and Blastoise got one of their own each, so they got something. They even all got G-Maxes, even though the other two got theirs later than Zard. Same with the Hoenn starters: Sceptile and Swampert got their Megas later than Blaziken, but they still got them in the end. Even as a Greninja lover I'm of the opinion that Delphox and Chesnaught are both great and underrated and I am sad they didn't get any sort of special transformation to make them stand out. Granted I know in regards to the anime Serena's Braixen has not gone past Braixen thus far (assuming it ever evolves in the scenario that Serena appears again in the future, of course) and Clemont's Chespin has never evolved (and poor Chesnaught has not been represented well in the anime, sadly), but it's still something that irks me to this day. If you're gonna give one of the starters in the trio special treatment, you might as well give them all that treatment. It's especially irksome to me considering the Alola and Galar starters managed to have special access their own generational gimmicks in their debut generation at the very least with the former group having signature Z-Moves and the latter group all having G-Maxes forms (this is despite Cinderace being the most blatantly marketed of the three a la Greninja).

 

[Wukong]

I thought Ash-Greninja was pretty darn cool in the anime and I really liked his Greninja overall in terms of its character arc and the mastery of its Bond Phenomenon with Ash made for a very cool development that reflected Ash's own character in a sense. As someone who is a sucker for shonen type action and loves Greninja as a Pokémon to death, seeing Ash-Greninja in action was hella cool and I loved seeing such an awesome Pokémon pull off such epic battles in the League and in Wulfric's Gym Battle.

What I don't like about it is two things: the first is that Ash-Greninja being a special Bond Phenomenon transformation did in a sense feel like the writers didn't want Ash to use Mega Evolution and so gave his Greninja its own little anime-exclusive transformation that was similar, despite the fact that he literally had a handful of Pokémon in back that he could pull off Mega Evolution with (namely, Charizard and Sceptile, of course). This is despite Mega Evolution literally being one of Gen 6's defining features, and Greninja not having any special transformation in-game in XY or even ORAS.

The other is that I am still a bit miffed and find it unfair that they only gave Greninja that special transformation and made it usable in-game while leaving the other two Kalos starters in the dust. I understand that Greninja is extremely popular and was the instant fan fave over the other two and to this day is still one of the most iconic Pokémon of all time (and rightfully so, the mon is cool as fuck), it is still ridiculously biased that Greninja gets all the special attention while they leave Delphox and Chesnaught in the shadows like that. Yes, Charizard getting two Megas is also bias, but at least Venusaur and Blastoise got one of their own each, so they got something. They even all got G-Maxes, even though the other two got theirs later than Zard. Same with the Hoenn starters: Sceptile and Swampert got their Megas later than Blaziken, but they still got them in the end. Even as a Greninja lover I'm of the opinion that Delphox and Chesnaught are both great and underrated and I am sad they didn't get any sort of special transformation to make them stand out. Granted I know in regards to the anime Serena's Braixen has not gone past Braixen thus far (assuming it ever evolves in the scenario that Serena appears again in the future, of course) and Clemont's Chespin has never evolved (and poor Chesnaught has not been represented well in the anime, sadly), but it's still something that irks me to this day. If you're gonna give one of the starters in the trio special treatment, you might as well give them all that treatment. It's especially irksome to me considering the Alola and Galar starters managed to have special access their own generational gimmicks in their debut generation at the very least with the former group having signature Z-Moves and the latter group all having G-Maxes forms (this is despite Cinderace being the most blatantly marketed of the three a la Greninja).

I definitely agree more heavily marketed Pokémon get things handed to them on a silver platter, which is of course wrong. But I want to touch upon another point since you're going there. Another unpopular opinion I have is I do not like Mega evolutions. I do think they're the best gimmick of the three: Mega's, Z-moves and G-max forms. But that doesn't make them good. I think they're flawed in both concept and execution.

Concept wise I guess they're trying to do two things: 1) breathe life into previously worthless Pokémon like Beedrill; and 2) make it apparent what is the ace Pokémon or center piece of a team. However, I think cross-gen evo's did a much better job of breathing life into older Pokémon, like what Johto and Sinnoh did, without creating balance issues and overly busting Pokémon, which I'll get to in a minute. Second, I don't think the ace status should be handed to a Pokémon in such a blatant way. First, it overshadows the rest of the team members. But also, Metagross didn't need a Mega to prove to be the ace of Steven's team. Nor does Garchomp need a Mega to be the ace of Cynthia's team. Infernape doesn't need a Mega to be the ace of my Sinnoh playthroughs; it earns that status all on its own. Mega's just seem like an over the top way to cater to the "ace" concept.

And in execution, Mega's are spectacularly flawed. Why the fuck do Metagross and Garchomp even need Mega's when, I don't know, something like Butterfree doesn't get one? If Beedrill got one, why not Butterfree? Just using it as an example to make my point. And in playthroughs you have to purposely nerf yourself to not use Mega's against trainers who do not also have a Mega or you end up becoming completely OP. Unlike Set mode, no healing items in battle, and not grinding, it's honestly pretty hard for me to rationalize this kind of handicap. It removes any kind of tension that might exist in the main campaign. Which kind of speaks to the dull difficulty of the Gen 6 games, Exp. Share issues aside.

Mega's just seem like a flawed concept with abysmal execution and I think a lot of people like them because they seem like the best of the three post Gen 5 gimmicks. Which I agree they are. But that doesn't make them good by any stretch.

 

[Hugin]

I think each of the gimmicks has good points.
Dynamax: Stadium-only keeps you from using it against route trainers, no items makes for less inventory management and more in-battle decisions.
Z-moves: Status moves make for creative tactics, the damage calc and the status moves make for unusual sets and even mons being viable, requiring an item slot for a 1-time boost makes them an actual trade-off.
Megas: Makes trash mons useful, the mega stones make it easy to control when players get specific powerful mons in-game, choosing when to mega-evolve is a really interesting tactic for certain mons(gyarados, weather war TTar)

 

[girazard]

My understanding of the Paul fight is that he planned his team to bait out several of Ash’s Pokémon to confirm Ash’s team composition - which was likely (and correctly) the same team as at Lake Acuity. Aggron and Gastrodon took four Pokémon between them to take out and by the time Ash switched in Staraptor, Paul could confirm his suspicions and go all-in with the Drapion strategy.

The rest of his team (Evire, Ninjask, Froslass) were probably meant to cover other threats Paul was aware of as well as being strong mons in their own rights (Evire is self-explanatory; the others needed two of Ash’s best Pokémon and Ninjask would have taken out Gliscor had he not been switched out - the best mon to take on Drapion).

 

[Bakugames]

I still think Dmax > Megas by a mile, both in competitive (yes, including the absolute trainwreck that was early ss pre-Dmax ban) and in casual gameplay and flavor

(I can explain my opinion if anyone cares and is wondering wtf is going on in my head 2 say this LOL)