Unpopular opinions

Samtendo09

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Also Pignite, Emboar, Klefki, Primarina, Keldeo, Skarmory, Corviknight and few others completely walls it.

And SD means it won't run Low Kick which means Cobalion, Melmetal, Incineroar and many others would also wall it.

Plus it weakness to Bullet Punch and Mach Punch means it could be easilt revenge killed.

Tough Claws weavile doesn't really look that impressive. It would not even be a top 3 mon in OU if it was available much less "broken".

And if it run adamant instead of jolly then it would easily gets revenge killed. Tough claws weavile is not even close to broken.
High HP ain’t gonna cut it in OU if they don’t have actually good Defense and / or Special Defense, in this Pignite and Emboar just can’t switch into Weavile at all.

People don’t want to be forced into running priority, because if they have to, it’s gonna streamroll real fast against them if their priority user faints.

Weavile is already S- in OU atm; neither Pressure or Pickpocket do anything of real value consistently for Weavile, as both don’t fit well with Weavile’s fast, physically hard-hitting but frail stat spread. Triple Axel, while not 100% consistent, give it a STAB move that reaches 120 effective BP a lot of the time. Tough Claws will give it 156 effective BP on all three hits, and 78 with only two hits.

Knock Off reaches an effective 126.8 BP on top of knocking off the opponent’s item, and 84 effective BP on foe with no or Knock Off immune items is still good for STAB. This is on top of Weavile having it’s own priority, Ice Shard, reaching 52 which isn’t too much on it’s own but can cripple any potential counters, especially if Weavile used Sword Dance beforehand.

Access of Tough Claws is one of the reasons why Weavile got banned from AAA (Almost Any Ability).
 
Also Pignite, Emboar, Klefki, Primarina, Keldeo, Skarmory, Corviknight and few others completely walls it.

And SD means it won't run Low Kick which means Cobalion, Melmetal, Incineroar and many others would also wall it.

Plus it weakness to Bullet Punch and Mach Punch means it could be easilt revenge killed.

Tough Claws weavile doesn't really look that impressive. It would not even be a top 3 mon in OU if it was available much less "broken".

And if it run adamant instead of jolly then it would easily gets revenge killed. Tough claws weavile is not even close to broken.
Ah yes, Emboar and Klefki, my favorite OU pokemon. None of the mons you listed want to take or switch into a +2 Triple Axel or Knock Off (except for Pignite (lol)) and can easily be chipped with hazards to get into a more favorable range. Here are some calcs (keep in mind that none of these mons want to run max defense max HP except for Skarmory and Klefki in the first place):

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 210-249 (57.6 - 68.4%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Keldeo: 186-219 (48.1 - 56.7%) -- approx. 95.7% chance to 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 279-327 (83.5 - 97.9%) -- approx. 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 336-399 (84 - 99.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Emboar: 225-267 (53 - 62.9%) -- approx. 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 183-216 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

On top of this, Weavile is already a top-3 mon in SWSH OU.
 
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Also Pignite, Emboar, Klefki, Primarina, Keldeo, Skarmory, Corviknight and few others completely walls it.
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 52 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 252-300 (67.3 - 80.2%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 198-234 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 228-270 (62.6 - 74.1%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 207-246 (61.9 - 73.6%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 273-324 (68.2 - 81%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Klefki takes 2 but dies with even a little bit of chip, which is a problem when you consider its lack of recovery, and can only cripple with Thunder Wave in return.

Tough Claws weavile doesn't really look that impressive. It would not even be a top 3 mon in OU if it was available much less "broken".
My brother in Christ, Weavile is literally a top 4 mon in OU without Tough Claws. What fucking game are you even playing?
 
I've already talked about my disinterest of changing the type chart to balance weaker type, but of all of the more popular proposed changes, I believe Ice has no business resisting Water. I'm not talking flavorfully, because you could bend the type chart in all sorts of ways if you use real life (Fire could vaporize Water, Steel could cut Grass, etc.) I'm talking purely for gameplay. Oh neat Ice can switch into Water types now? Guess what? Water resists Ice too. Now the game is stallier than it already is. Freeze-Dry exists? Not for Physical Ice mons, and of the Special Ice mons with it, a handful of them already resist Water, and a bunch of the remaining ones are junkers. Plus as we've seen in Gen 8, Game Freak is not afraid of tossing out established moves like Pursuit and Return to shake up the meta, so Freze-Dry is never safe. I only say this because every time I get into this topic, the (many) proponents for this change are staunchly grounded on this buff being nothing but positive for the game when I really don't see it. What am I missing here? I wanna give the benefit of the doubt, but it just feels like their opinion is "WolfeyVGC said this Ice buff would be good, so it must be good."
 
To close the Weavile thread:
1. Current Weavile is very overrated (still good though), not top 3 Mon for me and wouldn't put in S- rank.
2. Pressure is actually viable with Sub SD, it stalls some Mons easily. In-game it's even better with Sub-Protect, especially in Nuzlocke runs, one of the best offensive Mons you could use.
3. Tough Claws Weavile would be broken, no question asked. Most of the few Mons that would check a Band variant, absolutely hate losing their item to Knock Off.

There are many Mons whose design (Stats, Abilities or Movepool) I would change, but Weavile specifically is exactly as good as want it to be, it doesn't need major boosts or nerfs (except maybe losing Protect and Sub when Pokemon designers/balancers realize that not every Mon should learn those moves, just like happened with Toxic in SS).
 
High HP ain’t gonna cut it in OU if they don’t have actually good Defense and / or Special Defense, in this Pignite and Emboar just can’t switch into Weavile at all.

People don’t want to be forced into running priority, because if they have to, it’s gonna streamroll real fast against them if their priority user faints.

Weavile is already S- in OU atm; neither Pressure or Pickpocket do anything of real value consistently for Weavile, as both don’t fit well with Weavile’s fast, physically hard-hitting but frail stat spread. Triple Axel, while not 100% consistent, give it a STAB move that reaches 120 effective BP a lot of the time. Tough Claws will give it 156 effective BP on all three hits, and 78 with only two hits.

Knock Off reaches an effective 126.8 BP on top of knocking off the opponent’s item, and 84 effective BP on foe with no or Knock Off immune items is still good for STAB. This is on top of Weavile having it’s own priority, Ice Shard, reaching 52 which isn’t too much on it’s own but can cripple any potential counters, especially if Weavile used Sword Dance beforehand.

Access of Tough Claws is one of the reasons why Weavile got banned from AAA (Almost Any Ability).
My brother in Christ, Weavile is literally a top 4 mon in OU without Tough Claws. What fucking game are you even playing?
[/QUOTE]

On top of this, Weavile is already a top-3 mon in SWSH OU.
No it's not. It is 8th based on usage rate.

https://www.porydex.com/stats/current

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 52 HP / 4 Def Emboar: 252-300 (67.3 - 80.2%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 198-234 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 228-270 (62.6 - 74.1%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 207-246 (61.9 - 73.6%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 273-324 (68.2 - 81%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Klefki takes 2 but dies with even a little bit of chip, which is a problem when you consider its lack of recovery, and can only cripple with Thunder Wave in return.
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- approx. 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 144-171 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- approx. 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Tapu Fini: 153-180 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- approx. 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also Pex

And there are many mons like Urshifu-R, Blaziken, Keldeo, Scizor who could take 1 hit from it and revenge kill it in return.

Ah yes, Emboar and Klefki, my favorite OU pokemon. None of the mons you listed want to take or switch into a +2 Triple Axel or Knock Off (except for Pignite (lol)) and can easily be chipped with hazards to get into a more favorable range. Here are some calcs (keep in mind that none of these mons want to run max defense max HP except for Skarmory and Klefki in the first place):

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 210-249 (57.6 - 68.4%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Keldeo: 186-219 (48.1 - 56.7%) -- approx. 95.7% chance to 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 279-327 (83.5 - 97.9%) -- approx. 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 336-399 (84 - 99.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Emboar: 225-267 (53 - 62.9%) -- approx. 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 183-216 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Cobalion: 171-204 (44.3 - 52.8%) -- approx. 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Incineroar: 162-195 (41.1 - 49.4%) -- approx. 3HKO
 
I've already talked about my disinterest of changing the type chart to balance weaker type, but of all of the more popular proposed changes, I believe Ice has no business resisting Water. I'm not talking flavorfully, because you could bend the type chart in all sorts of ways if you use real life (Fire could vaporize Water, Steel could cut Grass, etc.) I'm talking purely for gameplay. Oh neat Ice can switch into Water types now? Guess what? Water resists Ice too. Now the game is stallier than it already is. Freeze-Dry exists? Not for Physical Ice mons, and of the Special Ice mons with it, a handful of them already resist Water, and a bunch of the remaining ones are junkers. Plus as we've seen in Gen 8, Game Freak is not afraid of tossing out established moves like Pursuit and Return to shake up the meta, so Freze-Dry is never safe. I only say this because every time I get into this topic, the (many) proponents for this change are staunchly grounded on this buff being nothing but positive for the game when I really don't see it. What am I missing here? I wanna give the benefit of the doubt, but it just feels like their opinion is "WolfeyVGC said this Ice buff would be good, so it must be good."
And what's wrong with that?
 
To close the Weavile thread:
1. Current Weavile is very overrated (still good though), not top 3 Mon for me and wouldn't put in S- rank.
2. Pressure is actually viable with Sub SD, it stalls some Mons easily. In-game it's even better with Sub-Protect, especially in Nuzlocke runs, one of the best offensive Mons you could use.
3. Tough Claws Weavile would be broken, no question asked. Most of the few Mons that would check a Band variant, absolutely hate losing their item to Knock Off.

There are many Mons whose design (Stats, Abilities or Movepool) I would change, but Weavile specifically is exactly as good as want it to be, it doesn't need major boosts or nerfs (except maybe losing Protect and Sub when Pokemon designers/balancers realize that not every Mon should learn those moves, just like happened with Toxic in SS).
Not as broken as Lando-T is or for that matter the coming Ursaluna will be
 
Oh dear god... At some point the only appropriate response really becomes "lurk more", and I think we're just about at that point...
No it's not. It is 8th based on usage rate.

https://www.porydex.com/stats/current
Usage stats =/= viability, and saying it's 8th in the entire tier instead of top 3 is not nearly as solid an argument in favor of giving it a blanket 30% power boost as you seem to think.
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- approx. 3HKO
No recovery, hates getting knocked.

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 144-171 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- approx. 3HKO
No recovery, cares about knock slightly less but still doesn't appreciate losing leftovers.

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Tapu Fini: 153-180 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- approx. 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
No recovery, hates getting knocked.

The closest thing to a reliable check on this entire list and it does literally nothing back except pray for a Scald burn.


Every single last thing you've named either has no recovery and gets fucked by chip (which is a problem when you're switching into the strongest Knock Off user in the tier) or just isn't a check at all outside of a 1v1 scenario that only ever happens on paper.
 
Oh dear god... At some point the only appropriate response really becomes "lurk more", and I think we're just about at that point...

Usage stats =/= viability, and saying it's 8th in the entire tier instead of top 3 is not nearly as solid an argument in favor of giving it a blanket 30% power boost as you seem to think.
Viability wise it is not top 10. Not even top 20 tbh. I'm actually surprised it is even in OU. Not for long tho. The next gen power creep would probably push it to RU unless it is not buffed
 
I think that Spore, Nuzzle, Parting Shot, Tombstoner, and Barrage need to be universal TMs to REALLY shake up the metagame. Also Focus Punch needs a special counterpart called Focus Thunk.

As a serious post for this thread, I think that going forward, that having a large chunk of new Pokemon use pre-existing type combos isn't that big of a deal, even if there is a decent bit of Pokemon with those combos already. With how few unused combos are left(most of them Normal type pairs), it'll be increasingly hard to avoid unless they keep adding new types soley for the purpose of new type combos.

There are already multiple types that have had every possible combo so for fans of those types re-used typings are all they will be getting for a while.
 
[Ice and Water stalls]And what's wrong with that?
Because a basic principle of good game design is you want to promote mechanics that reach an end game and less mechanics that do the opposite. That doesn't mean Stalls and Walls can't exist, but too much of that leads to sluggish gameplay. And I'm sure there are sadists that love their endless battle exploits and 300+ turn matches, but they are in the minority. Not that Ice resisting Water alone would lead to stalls, but it's a needless step in that direction in my opinion.
 
I think that Spore, Nuzzle, Parting Shot, Tombstoner, and Barrage need to be universal TMs to REALLY shake up the metagame. Also Focus Punch needs a special counterpart called Focus Thunk.
God, please, Spore and Nuzzle as TMs is going to be crazy in a post-Smeargle metagame. Both are great support moves that are balanced by limited availability.
Incineroar is already crazy without Parting Shot, this is a great pivot move.
Tombstoner and Barrage are some of the most broken damage-dealing moves in the games, I do not want a wider distribution to other Pokémon, and this is coming from a Tombstoner enjoyer.
 
Coronis asked for more non-competitive unpopular opinions, so, um...

Diglett's design is overhated. I know it is incredibly simple, but a Whac-A-Mole mole with mysterious appendages is a great concept.

Ditto is another incredibly simple design I like, also the concept of a Ditto that can turn into items or even a human is awesome, and not just for you-know-what.
If you show a Diglett obtained from the Gen I VC games to the director at the Game Freak headquarters in Pokemon Sun and Moon, they mention that it was a character they originally drew as a small child, which would explain its simplicity
 

Coronis

Impressively round
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
If you show a Diglett obtained from the Gen I VC games to the director at the Game Freak headquarters in Pokemon Sun and Moon, they mention that it was a character they originally drew as a small child, which would explain its simplicity
Wow really? Thats awesome. Do they have any other unique phrases for other VC mons?
 
Wow really? Thats awesome. Do they have any other unique phrases for other VC mons?
:mankey:
You know Mankey, right? I'm actually the one who came up with it! The boss told me to make a Pokémon with a bit of this and a bit of that, and that's what I drew! I'm pretty fond of it myself!

:exeggutor:
We had a poll in the company once a long time ago to see which Pokémon was most popular... and back then the winner was Exeggutor!

:tauros:
Tauros used to be real strong, huh? I was the one who thought up that one. But Blizzard was a bit too strong, eh?

:diglett:
You know Diglett, right? It's actually basically just a character that I had made up when I was a little kid. I even drew up a flip-book featuring it then!

:mew:
You know Mew, right? I made it. Everything about it. The pixel art, its cry, its Pokédex entry, everything. I just barely finished in time, too! It was right at the very end of the game's development!

Two more in USUM:

:shuckle:
You know Shuckle, right? I was the one who thought it up. Bet you were surprised to find out that giving a Shuckle a Berry to hold in Pokémon Gold and Silver would turn it into a Berry Juice after battling!

:piloswine:
You know Piloswine? I designed that Pokémon. I felt like I had to get all 12 animals in the Chinese zodiac together, you know?
 
:piloswine:
You know Piloswine? I designed that Pokémon. I felt like I had to get all 12 animals in the Chinese zodiac together, you know?
Huh, which 12? Is he talking Gen II alone had all 12 or both gens combined?
My best guesses, Gen 2 option listed first. Picking a specific member of an evo family probably means I find that mon easiest to spell. A ? after the mon indicates it was a stretch.
Pig: Piloswine
Rat: Cyndaquil?(there's a bunch of generic small animals, but most of them aren't rats. It's this or Pichu) / Raticate
Ox: Miltank / Tauros
Tiger: Raikou / Persian?
Hare: Azumarill /
Dragon: Tyranitar / Charizard
Snake: Steelix? / Arbok
Horse: Girafarig? / Rapidash
Ram: Mareep /
Monkey: Aipom / Mankey
Rooster: Ho-Oh?
Dog: Snubbull / Growlithe

I may have forgotten an option. So if he's talking about both gens, there's something for every slot. Just gen 2, there's a lot of stretches. But even with both gens, there's a few in there people have debated over what species they actually are for a while. Rooster specifically concerns me.

This is actually interesting for the unending "Fire Starters = Chinese Zodiac" debate. Because there's definitely a couple in there that are as much a stretch as Fenniken=Dog, but some are pretty clear. I also would have put a big question mark next to Piloswine if we didn't have the Word of God here, I always considered that much more of a mammoth than a pig.
 
I always considered that much more of a mammoth than a pig.
For the Japanese version of the Chinese Zodiac(Yes, there are some slight differences), the Pig is often depicted as a Boar, which is why Piloswine has tusks. Not to mention it has a Pig nose instead of a trunk and the fact that it has pig/boar-like feet . Mammoths were completely unrelated to the line's concept until Mamoswine came out in Gen IV, though it still has the pig nose instead of a trunk, it's feet and tusks are very mammoth-like unlike its preevolution.
 

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