I'm in the camp of "SV's performance issues don't bother me they're just really really funny". I wish this game would finally force the issue that we don't need Gamefreak to bite off more than they could chew and make these big 3D titles. The pokemon formula is good, adding to it with other pokemon related activities like Titans, Star Base assaults, Raids, Contests, Battle Facilities etc is also good. How much could the series be liberated if we just went back to sprite art? We're not competing with the big Switch titles from a graphics perspective, we're barely putting out a functional product, we don't even have voice acting! A lot of digital ink has been spilled about how dexit is so great because it lets them do all this cool stuff now, and that's just nothing compared to what could be accomplished if they stopped pretending they're a AAA company and made good 2D games that they're capable of completing in their yearly timetable.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
I've wanted the core Pokémon games to remain 2D essentially since the release of XY, and have posted about it many times. My argument for this hasn't been because I'm nostalgic or anything, I love seeing Pokémon in 3D, but because the only way to satisfactorily get 3D Pokémon is for it to be left to spinoffs.
The Pokémon formula is wonderful, as you said, and so if Game Freak sticks to making gameplay as good as they can make it (and games like SV demonstrate it is still completely possible to innovate the formula in a positive way) while having charming 2D artwork in the vein of B2W2, then a team that is more attuned to 3D modelling and animating can then bring those Pokémon to life in 3D. Battle Revolution is still, easily, the best looking 3D Pokémon game, because the only priority during the development of the game was making it look good. Colosseum and XD look better than anything Game Freak has outputted even still, especially as far as the Gen III mons are concerned (since the first 2 gens were ported from Stadium and up-ressed lol). And the whole stream of XY -> SwSh could have been ported into 2D and the gameplay would have been absolutely identical, so playing through them in 3D that looks worse than the good spritework that Game Freak is capable of felt almost performative and empty.
Buuuuuut SV might have changed my tune on that a little bit. SV has finally made use of one of the main advantages of 3D, that being new movement opportunities. While not every 2D game has to be tile-based, every 2D game is restricted to (obviously) a 2-dimensional plane. Having verticality, or more specifically being able to scale vertical surfaces, has made exploring SV and to a lesser extent Legends: Arceus an absolute treat. Using verticality intelligently in order to incorporate it into the power curve of the game has also finally been achieved in SV, which wasn't the case at all in Legends: Arceus really. SV is an example of using 3D in a way to bolster gameplay, and I think it has been completely successful in that aim.
At its core, as a Nintendo gamer, gameplay will always trump graphics for me. Now that the advantages of 3D gameplay have finally actually been utilised, the need for a graphically impressive spinoff has been lessened for me. Do I still wish Game Freak outsourced their Pokémon modelling and animation to Genius Sonority? Yeah, absolutely, IDK how many of the same employees that worked on Orre and Battle Revolution will even still be there, but Genius has proven itself to be particularly skilled at that part of game development. And while I still yearn for a spinoff with better graphics than the main series in terms of Pokémon personality, that doesn't have to come with the core series being stuck in 2D any more, because SV have shown that GF can now utilise 3D effectively, and so a spinoff that animates with more personality and precision might as well be one that has more distinctive gameplay than Orre or Battle Revolution did.
A buff, yes. Not an Evo though.
Mawile is definitely due to getting Huge Power by now though, don't ask me how.
If only people knew just how impractical sprites truly are...
If you think the games are horrendously rushed now, you don't want to imagine how they'll be when they gotta waste a truly enormous amount of time and money making sprites for damn near everything. Did people forget how sprite frames work or something?
There's a reason why 3D is the industry-standard folks. Actually, there are several.
Oh well, maybe one of these days I'll get to change my profile pic.
Scarlet and Violet did amazing work with the materials on all the Pokémon, which are basically textures with added effects such as reflectiveness or bumpiness. Miraidon's model is probably my favourite.
I feel like people can be a little hypocritical when it comes to sprites.If only people knew just how impractical sprites truly are...
If you think the games are horrendously rushed now, you don't want to imagine how they'll be when they gotta waste a truly enormous amount of time and money making sprites for damn near everything. Did people forget how sprite frames work or something?
Recycle a 3D model, and folks will call you lazy. Reuse some sprites, and people won't bat an eye.
After that, there's the question of taste and whether or not newer graphics fall into the Uncanny Valley, which IMO is a valid reason not to like modern graphics.
...except for the fact people tend to focus on the best artwork of the industry (E.g., Street Fighter III) or modern sprites that very vaguely reminds folks of the 8-bit and 16-bit eras despite not fitting that well with the sprites or consoles like the NES or the Super Nintendo. And besides, sprites are also a taste, you are no less valid for preferring 3D models over pixel art.
And besides, just because a sprite is newer doesn't mean I should like it better.
I said it several pages ago, I don't mind the overworld sprites for the first few generations overall. Generations I and II? Really simple and cute.
Generation III has some bad cases of inconsistent coloring, also the Regis' overworld sprites were comically inaccurate. But other than that, Brendan's and May's might be my favorite overworld sprites for any playable character, alongside FRLG Red and Leaf.
Meanwhile, Black and White might be more recent games than Emerald, and yet I hate the overworld sprites here. They are taller I guess, but also about as wide as the Gen IV ones. As a result, they went from stubby to noodly and stretched, which may work for, say, Elesa, but not Hilbert.
And looking back, I think I know why Gen III has my favorite overworld people: no mouths. I don't know why, but putting mouths on every chibi map sprite just doesn't work for me.
And this is my expanded opinion on overworld sprites.
Also, please keep your current profile picture.
I would argue that SV does not use verticality enough to require being 3D. Most 2D games have walls, and Gen 4 had specific ways to climb walls as an unlocked exploration tool. SV doesn't really put anything on top of anything else, so there isn't anywhere that is uniquely defined by height and the map can be projected onto a 2D surface without difficulty. I think Kalos Route 8 is the only overworld location in the series that comes close to requiring a 3D setup, and even then the upper and lower parts are on disconnected flat layers.
Impractical at scale and for mutability. At the low or indie end, sprites are excellent beacuse the barrier to entry is far lower and they're a lot less complex to work with.If only people knew just how impractical sprites truly are...
If you think the games are horrendously rushed now, you don't want to imagine how they'll be when they gotta waste a truly enormous amount of time and money making sprites for damn near everything. Did people forget how sprite frames work or something?
There's a reason why 3D is the industry-standard folks. Actually, there are several.
However, when it comes to reusing, fixing, or retooling art assets, 3D modeling is just a lot easier to work with. It's a lot easier, for example, to change an animation of a model, add more vertices, or swap textures than it is with a 2D sprite which will generally require a significant or complete rework. That was part of the argument for the big XY jump to 3D - the hardware was there, and while it would result in reduced content for a while it would be made up for with the ability to make more and faster content in the future. The original Gen 6 Creatures Inc. models were so futureproofed that they had to be significantly downscaled to work with the 3DS's resolution.
Of course, that extra/saved time should allow you to improve aspects of your work, not rollback features and produce sub-standard Garbodor *cough* *cough*
Yeah idgaf about graphics in my games. Sure, its a nice bonus, but the story/gameplay are whats gonna keep me coming back to it, not pretty pictures.
Correct. I was just too lazy to type all that stuff.Impractical at scale and for mutability. At the low or indie end, sprites are excellent beacuse the barrier to entry is far lower and they're a lot less complex to work with.
However, when it comes to reusing, fixing, or retooling art assets, 3D modeling is just a lot easier to work with. It's a lot easier, for example, to change an animation of a model, add more vertices, or swap textures than it is with a 2D sprite which will generally require a significant or complete rework. That was part of the argument for the big XY jump to 3D - the hardware was there, and while it would result in reduced content for a while it would be made up for with the ability to make more and faster content in the future. The original Gen 6 Creatures Inc. models were so futureproofed that they had to be significantly downscaled to work with the 3DS's resolution.
Of course, that extra/saved time should allow you to improve aspects of your work, not rollback features and produce sub-standard Garbodor *cough* *cough*
Also, don't forget the sheer cost of high-quality spritework. KoF 13 pretty much drove SNK to bankruptcy. Again.
Edit: I got a spicy one today.
These new games having humongous dexes and raid mons are killing me. It was reasonable to pick a team before, now?
Area 1 has 632146 mons, plus raids, the game is wide open, breeding is easy af, gotta catch em all.
Like dang, how am I supposed to pick a team like this?
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May I suggest you to join the club of "i'll decide on a whim while i run around"?Like dang, how am I supposed to pick a team like this?
Or u could be a hybrid like me, planning out the team beforehand but only ending up using one or two of em because the others are much harder to obtain than anticipated and thus end up improvising the rest of the team.
Honestly, being boring is just a lot more fun. I choose like two, maybe three mons and roll with that.Edit: I got a spicy one today.
These new games having humongous dexes and raid mons are killing me. It was reasonable to pick a team before, now?
Area 1 has 632146 mons, plus raids, the game is wide open, breeding is easy af, gotta catch em all.
Like dang, how am I supposed to pick a team like this?
I used to plan out elaborate teams for every game, 6 mons that cover every weakness and synergize well. Planned where/when to get them, if they'd be shiny, nicknames, etc.
For SwSh, I just used 4 mons: Rillaboom, Danger Tape, Mienshao, and Lunatone. And, honestly, Lunatone basically solo'd everyone. For my first SP playthrough I just used Toxicroak and Crawdaunt, and subsequent saves for ribbon grinding using just Infernape worked fine. USUM? Only Passimian. Emerald? I used Swellow and Swamp. Colo? I used Espeon and Quag. Just finished going through Legends, and I only used Decidueye.
Having lots of mons is interesting, but keeping them all leveled takes too much effort. Having a One Punch Man (or woman, or genderless blob) just solo their way through the entire game is more efficient. And, the big important bonus is that you bond much more closely when you're using just one or two mons and can gain a new appreciation for them. Passimian used to be a meh tier mon for me, but now they're high tier beacuse of the journey Oralech (available on my trade thread!) and I went on together.
Definitely an unpopular opinion, but I think narrowing one's team scope is much healthier for game enjoyment. If you have the time and opportunity to do so, I'd definitely recommend trying it at least once. And, make sure to choose mons that are outside of your normal comfort zone (but can still do the work of course, sorry Ledian ain't cutting it lol). You might be pleasantly surprised with how it goes.
Listen, Screens lead Ledian was an important part of my Mono-Bug ingame team for Moon. It routinely let Ariados Swords Dance up to +6.
The gen 5 elemental monkeys, especially Simipour, look cool.
I'm sorry, I don't speak French, what are you trying to say? Sorry if this comes off as rude.
He's talking about a moment in tournament when the 3 Simis performed well.
Oh, cool, and he also has Mawile! That's my seventh favorite pokemon!
Just be:Edit: I got a spicy one today.
These new games having humongous dexes and raid mons are killing me. It was reasonable to pick a team before, now?
Area 1 has 632146 mons, plus raids, the game is wide open, breeding is easy af, gotta catch em all.
Like dang, how am I supposed to pick a team like this?
Something tells me you're reading the Terastal discussion...
Something tells me you're reading the Terastal discussion...
What a compelling argument.
Here are some of my unpopular opinions:
More:
6. I think Nemona and Silver are fine characters, but I think they might be too overhyped.
7. Most of the villains in the pokemon franchise aren't interesting.
- Venusaur is the best Gen 1 starter. It's more powerful than the other Gen 1 starters (in-game and competitive), can be used in many roles (offensive, defensive, sun) and has the best animations in Pokemon Stadium.
- Wallace in (Pokemon Emerald) is the hardest champion in the game. It took me 8 tries to actually beat him. There are only a few good pokemon that can counter Wallace's team (e.g Sceptile, Manetric and Ludicolo). Non-STAB moves can't 2HKO them.
- Cynthia is one of the worst champions in the series, if not the worst. You think as someone who vents her disgust at Team Galactic would be able to help the player stop Cyrus from threatening the world. However, the only help she provides is that she gives us TM Cut and gives us a Togepi egg. She doesn't stop Team Galactic from kidnapping the Lake Trio and doesn't raid their base. Even Dawn was more helpful in stopping Team Galactic. Cynthia does go to the Distortion World to help the player out (would've been nice if she arrived earlier), but all she did is give Cyrus a drawn-out psychological lecture on the morals of reshaping the world, with her telling Cyrus to leave us alone (not great advice). Rather than have the champion take Cyrus out, we have to take him out, and then capture Giratina all by ourselves, whilst Cynthia doesn't help. She doesn't even apprehend Cyrus, just leaves him alone in the Distortion World. What kind of hero is she if three children and a professor is able to do a better job at stopping Team Galactic better than her (the strongest champion in Sinnoh)?
Most champions at least try to stop the villains themselves before asking the player for help. - Knock Off and Scald shouldn't have been limited in distribution in Gen 9.
- Swampert is clearly the best water starter.
More:
6. I think Nemona and Silver are fine characters, but I think they might be too overhyped.
7. Most of the villains in the pokemon franchise aren't interesting.
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Hoenn sucks. IGN was right, too much water.
I've revisited Hoenn a lot (because of RNG/Ribbons) and every time "hey, this ain't too bad, why do I dislike Hoenn so much?" and then, BAM, I hit Lilycove and "I remember now"! Gods, so much boring ocean filled with shitty constant water spawns, exploration is dulled because the best things you can find are shards that might get you an evolution stone and everything blends into one another. Fight after fight of poor Swimmers with their shitty Water Pokémon.
Then, when you've just fled your 170054285474th Wingull encounter and finally reach Pacifidlog Town the game goes "hey, the water is evolving! You've now got ANNOYING water!' and you get an annoying puzzle that, if you don't look at the complete map beforehand you're basically redoing this goddamn section twenty times to get all the exclusive routes and items (and one of these houses the only trainer with Bagon so if you wanted to know this thing even existed you better do it!).
Finally you reach the hollowed out crater of a volcano (yay!)... dried up and filled with rainwater (boooooo!) and what does GF have the gall to inflict upon you? Yeah, you haven't faced enough goddamn Water trainers to their liking, here's the Water gym!
At this point I'm just so soured on the whole experience. Hoenn might just be the worst region for me, it's down there with bland Galar as clear bottom twos (can't decide which I dislike more)
I've revisited Hoenn a lot (because of RNG/Ribbons) and every time "hey, this ain't too bad, why do I dislike Hoenn so much?" and then, BAM, I hit Lilycove and "I remember now"! Gods, so much boring ocean filled with shitty constant water spawns, exploration is dulled because the best things you can find are shards that might get you an evolution stone and everything blends into one another. Fight after fight of poor Swimmers with their shitty Water Pokémon.
Then, when you've just fled your 170054285474th Wingull encounter and finally reach Pacifidlog Town the game goes "hey, the water is evolving! You've now got ANNOYING water!' and you get an annoying puzzle that, if you don't look at the complete map beforehand you're basically redoing this goddamn section twenty times to get all the exclusive routes and items (and one of these houses the only trainer with Bagon so if you wanted to know this thing even existed you better do it!).
Finally you reach the hollowed out crater of a volcano (yay!)... dried up and filled with rainwater (boooooo!) and what does GF have the gall to inflict upon you? Yeah, you haven't faced enough goddamn Water trainers to their liking, here's the Water gym!
At this point I'm just so soured on the whole experience. Hoenn might just be the worst region for me, it's down there with bland Galar as clear bottom twos (can't decide which I dislike more)
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
One of the things ORAS improved on most was adding a few Surfing trainers in the water routes with more diverse, interesting teams. Still doesn't make those routes overly more fun, but it's at least more of a challenge.
What's frustrating about the water abundance is that there's so many Water Pokemon in Hoenn that are never, or barely, used by NPCs. Huntail, Gorebyss, Relicanth, Starmie, Lanturn, Corsola (from memory no-one uses the latter two at all, but I might be wrong on that). They'd have been perfect for the Water gym leader. But no, he uses... Luvdisc, and has Sealeo, Crawdaunt, Kingdra, and Whiscash in common with Glacia, Sidney, Drake, and Wallace respectively for additional blandness.