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Unpopular opinions

I remember getting mad when the traditional style got canned past EP260 so I think I can empathize JUST A LITTLE BIT, though.

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Reminder that Kecleon, a Gen 3 mon, appeared over 50 episodes before the anime became digital for TV, and before a good chunk of the Johto dex

Incidentally, not a fan of how Jessie's hair was corrected to being purple after digital. I prefer the magenta/red violet error*
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*The cels themselves and art guides were all purple. Film/analogue scanning has its quirks, which some devs take advantage of. That said, proto concepts had it more red, so maybe they were aware of the "error" initially, and forgot to adapt once digital
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Reminder that Kecleon, a Gen 3 mon, appeared over 50 episodes before the anime became digital for TV, and before a good chunk of the Johto dex
I was so confused back then. There was no indication a new generation was about to be released and we get this weird Pokemon before any real progress happened in the anime. The Pokemon anime was getting real stale in Johto as if the writers didn't know what to do.

Also there was that purple Kecleon. Why isn't the shiny version that color? Kinda annoying considering the shiny we got is hardly different. And color change doesn't change the color in the game.
 
The treatment of mythicals in Gen 4 was really really bad.

When people talk about these guys being bland and mediocre nowadays Gen 4 is commonly cited as an example of a "golden age" for mythicals, when all of them had really good events and just better treatment across the board. And don't get me wrong, modern mythicals do suck and often feel totally disconnected from the region in question unlike these guys. But honestly? Basically every mythical in Gen 4 had their own unique, unprecedented problems that put huge dampers on what they tried to be. The entire concept really is just fundamentally screwed, but let's set that aside and talk specifically about where Sinnoh fails.

Manaphy  sprite from Platinum
Phione  sprite from Platinum

The issue with Manaphy is two-fold. The first is its obtainment method: Making it a bonus for Pokemon Ranger? Cool! Making it literally one per cartridge? Gross, you had a chance to amend the artificial scarcity horseshit and ya bungled it up. The second, far bigger problem is Phione, which I won't go into in major depth cuz its a dead horse at this point. I just... Don't know what the end state of Phione's conception was. Even if it could evolve into Manaphy I'm pretty sure it doesn't even get any unique moves that its big brother can't learn on its own. You can't even call it Pokedex filler since it wasn't in either the DP or Platinum regional Pokedexes and it doesn't bring the one-current National Pokedex count of 493 to any really notable milestone (if hypothetically Gen 4 added enough Pokemon to get to 499 and then Phione was created solely to cross over to 500 it would still be dumb but there'd be a reason behind its existence).

Darkrai  sprite from Platinum

Why. The. Fuck. Was. This. Split. From. Cresselia?! They are literally no more or less connected than any other minor legendary duo, so why did they do this? The only other two mythicals connected to normal legendaries are Mew and Keldeo, and the former is deliberately mysterious and ethereal while the latter at least has a "special" role amidst the Swords of Justice for being their student with a special form and signature move. Darkrai is just Cresselia's counterpart. That's it. He ended up being the much more popular of the two, sure, but they couldn't have known that during DP's development and even if they had a crystal ball that still doesn't justify the weird ""favoritism"".

Now, there's nothing particularly offensive about how Shaymin was handled so that won't get a section. But then there's the absolute motherload...

Arceus  sprite from HeartGold & SoulSilver

I already knew this long prior, but not until the advent of Pokemon Legends Arceus did it really sink in just how cucked this guy was for the longest time to the point where I now think he could qualify to be amidst the most mishandled Pokemon in franchise history. Like... How do you just introduce literal canon god:tm: and relegate it to a limited-time event, only to then proceed to cancel said event (If the azure flute was considered too confusing for kids, then I am so curious to know how the hell the regi puzzle from RSE got past the cutting room floor)?! And then in the years after Gen 4's conclusion he just got nothing, with Conquest being the only real bright spot for Arceus for a good 12 years. We even eventually got Silvally and look how prominent it was throughout Generation 7! I just... ugh, I hate it, thank the lord for Legends.

To close things off I want to address one of the things people bring up about the gen 4 mythicals that in my opinion makes them vastly overrated: Their unique locations. It's a cool idea in theory giving them special areas you must traverse through to find them makes sense but... All of these areas are just basically just hallways leading up to chambers with nothing else going on with them? No puzzles, no wild Pokemon, just... nothing.

Newmoon Island Darkrai Pt.png
Flower Paradise Shaymin Pt.png


And if you wanna really talk about hallways, check out Seabreak Path:
1616115120075.png

Going back to Arceus getting fucked, the Hall of Origin might be the lamest of all:
Hall_of_Origin_Pt.png

I get this is the DS and there's only so much that can be done, but is this really all they could think of? People complain about the Ultra Space locations in USUM being glorified corridors (and rightfully so), but even THOSE had more going on than these places. At least they could claim they had interesting visuals and sometimes had NPCs and items to find!
 
(If the azure flute was considered too confusing for kids, then I am so curious to know how the hell the regi puzzle from RSE got past the cutting room floor)
honestly i don’t want to know what they would’ve done with the flute if legends didn’t exist, and they shoved it into bdsp

coming from the minds of “let yamask lose at least 49 hp, then go under a random arch in the wild area”, it’s honestly horrifying with what they could’ve done if they wanted to retain the ‘confusingness’ of the flute
 
The treatment of mythicals in Gen 4 was really really bad.

When people talk about these guys being bland and mediocre nowadays Gen 4 is commonly cited as an example of a "golden age" for mythicals, when all of them had really good events and just better treatment across the board. And don't get me wrong, modern mythicals do suck and often feel totally disconnected from the region in question unlike these guys. But honestly? Basically every mythical in Gen 4 had their own unique, unprecedented problems that put huge dampers on what they tried to be. The entire concept really is just fundamentally screwed, but let's set that aside and talk specifically about where Sinnoh fails.

Manaphy  sprite from Platinum
Phione  sprite from Platinum

The issue with Manaphy is two-fold. The first is its obtainment method: Making it a bonus for Pokemon Ranger? Cool! Making it literally one per cartridge? Gross, you had a chance to amend the artificial scarcity horseshit and ya bungled it up. The second, far bigger problem is Phione, which I won't go into in major depth cuz its a dead horse at this point. I just... Don't know what the end state of Phione's conception was. Even if it could evolve into Manaphy I'm pretty sure it doesn't even get any unique moves that its big brother can't learn on its own. You can't even call it Pokedex filler since it wasn't in either the DP or Platinum regional Pokedexes and it doesn't bring the one-current National Pokedex count of 493 to any really notable milestone (if hypothetically Gen 4 added enough Pokemon to get to 499 and then Phione was created solely to cross over to 500 it would still be dumb but there'd be a reason behind its existence).

Darkrai  sprite from Platinum

Why. The. Fuck. Was. This. Split. From. Cresselia?! They are literally no more or less connected than any other minor legendary duo, so why did they do this? The only other two mythicals connected to normal legendaries are Mew and Keldeo, and the former is deliberately mysterious and ethereal while the latter at least has a "special" role amidst the Swords of Justice for being their student with a special form and signature move. Darkrai is just Cresselia's counterpart. That's it. He ended up being the much more popular of the two, sure, but they couldn't have known that during DP's development and even if they had a crystal ball that still doesn't justify the weird ""favoritism"".

Now, there's nothing particularly offensive about how Shaymin was handled so that won't get a section. But then there's the absolute motherload...

Arceus  sprite from HeartGold & SoulSilver

I already knew this long prior, but not until the advent of Pokemon Legends Arceus did it really sink in just how cucked this guy was for the longest time to the point where I now think he could qualify to be amidst the most mishandled Pokemon in franchise history. Like... How do you just introduce literal canon god:tm: and relegate it to a limited-time event, only to then proceed to cancel said event (If the azure flute was considered too confusing for kids, then I am so curious to know how the hell the regi puzzle from RSE got past the cutting room floor)?! And then in the years after Gen 4's conclusion he just got nothing, with Conquest being the only real bright spot for Arceus for a good 12 years. We even eventually got Silvally and look how prominent it was throughout Generation 7! I just... ugh, I hate it, thank the lord for Legends.

To close things off I want to address one of the things people bring up about the gen 4 mythicals that in my opinion makes them vastly overrated: Their unique locations. It's a cool idea in theory giving them special areas you must traverse through to find them makes sense but... All of these areas are just basically just hallways leading up to chambers with nothing else going on with them? No puzzles, no wild Pokemon, just... nothing.

Newmoon Island Darkrai Pt.png
Flower Paradise Shaymin Pt.png


And if you wanna really talk about hallways, check out Seabreak Path:

Going back to Arceus getting fucked, the Hall of Origin might be the lamest of all:
Hall_of_Origin_Pt.png

I get this is the DS and there's only so much that can be done, but is this really all they could think of? People complain about the Ultra Space locations in USUM being glorified corridors (and rightfully so), but even THOSE had more going on than these places. At least they could claim they had interesting visuals and sometimes had NPCs and items to find!
I don't see how Manaphy is any worse from the likes of Zeraora in USM and Jirachi in RSE or Deoxys FRLG. In the case of Manaphy, you can still obtain it today, it will just require finding a unused Pokemon Ranger game, but Chuggaconroy in his Let's Play Platinum stated that many players were unaware of how to obtain Manaphy in Ranger in the first place, and after watching his Let's Play, they were able to obtain a Manaphy in their Gen 4 games, so I don't think its a waste there.

I don't see what the issue of Darkrai being Cresselia's counterpart is. Darkrai lives on the opposite island ( Both named after Moon Phases ) of Cresselia, is causes Nightmares while Cresselia cures, them, and statistically speaking, they are the opposites: Cresselia is Defensive tank, while Darkrai is a dangerous offensive threat. They were shown in anime having a conflict. Darkrai is even mentioned when doing the Sailor's son quest, where he mumbles " Dark " is watching him, so Darkrai is involved with Cresselia.

While the Seabreak Path is epic nothingness, Chuggaconroy notes in his Let's Play of Platinum that it is the largest route in any Pokémon game, and its not something not possible on GBA, the internal memory of RS would never allow for something this long. So at least its technical marvel of the DS's capabilities.

While its a bummer that Azure Flute was never released, and reasoning is very dumb. I do like Arceus is foreshadowed throughout the plates on Sinnoh while the location of the Hall of Origin is above the Spear Pillar, which is said to be where Sinnoh started.
 
I don't see what the issue of Darkrai being Cresselia's counterpart is. Darkrai lives on the opposite island ( Both named after Moon Phases ) of Cresselia, is causes Nightmares while Cresselia cures, them, and statistically speaking, they are the opposites: Cresselia is Defensive tank, while Darkrai is a dangerous offensive threat. They were shown in anime having a conflict. Darkrai is even mentioned when doing the Sailor's son quest, where he mumbles " Dark " is watching him, so Darkrai is involved with Cresselia.
Darkrai being Cresselia's counterpart isn't the issue. The issue is that Darkrai is mythical while Cresselia isn't.
 
It matters because in-game, you can find Cresselia, but Darkrai just doesn't exist. And unlike Mew and Keldeo, there isn't any reason as to why Darkrai is split from Cresselia like that.
I mean tbf the reason is that they had a given number of movies scheduled to create and had to choose that many Pokémon to be mythicals. Darkrai is a way cooler character in a movie than Cresselia likely would be, especially since Manaphy and Shaymin are already serene and friendly mythicals, and Cresselia would have been more of the same in a short space of time.

Like maybe you can criticise the reason, but it is why it is. Besides, I feel it gets justified with Cresselia’s sideplot in B2W2, which it would have been a shame to have hidden behind an event just because it’s a mythical.
 
Besides, I feel it gets justified with Cresselia’s sideplot in B2W2, which it would have been a shame to have hidden behind an event just because it’s a mythical.
They could have just not had Darkrai be mythical in the first place and had both Cresselia and Darkrai available in-game. They've made movies based on non-mythics before.

Also Darkrai is a part of that subplot too despite being nowhere to be found so it's not like Cresselia being mythical would have really changed much.
 
Unrelated and unhinged rambling: Tropius needs an update, it sticks out as one of the pokemon most held back by its time from a concept standpoint.

Let's look at its defining trait according to various pokedexes:
ruby dex said:
This Pokémon loves fruit, and eats it continuously. Apparently, its love for fruit resulted in its own outgrowth of fruit.
DP dex said:
Because it continually ate only its favorite fruit, the fruit started growing around its neck.
Pt/BW dex said:
Delicious fruits grew out from around its neck because it always ate the same kind of fruit.

Tropius has no variation as to what its growing, and it doesn't directly connect to any berry seen ingame (nanab berries are pink, for reference). Gen 3 did have a method for determining what fruit/berries a given pokemon likes, but still couldn't implement noticeable variants due to lacking a solid foundation for form changes (it had Spinda and Deoxys, but they were unique and not very generalizable). We're now at the point where everything is available for an interesting set of variants for Tropius or an evolution (and have potentially been since gen 4), and it would be far from the only mon nowadays with a set of different forms for a thematic gimmick. It means Tropius is now a mon that you can tell it's old without checking anything. It doesn't help that it hasn't been in the base dex for any non-Hoenn region where it might receive that update.

Also, it probably needs Harvest moved out of it's HA slot, but that's a separate issue.
 
Unrelated and unhinged rambling: Tropius needs an update, it sticks out as one of the pokemon most held back by its time from a concept standpoint.

Let's look at its defining trait according to various pokedexes:




Tropius has no variation as to what its growing, and it doesn't directly connect to any berry seen ingame (nanab berries are pink, for reference). Gen 3 did have a method for determining what fruit/berries a given pokemon likes, but still couldn't implement noticeable variants due to lacking a solid foundation for form changes (it had Spinda and Deoxys, but they were unique and not very generalizable). We're now at the point where everything is available for an interesting set of variants for Tropius or an evolution (and have potentially been since gen 4), and it would be far from the only mon nowadays with a set of different forms for a thematic gimmick. It means Tropius is now a mon that you can tell it's old without checking anything. It doesn't help that it hasn't been in the base dex for any non-Hoenn region where it might receive that update.

Also, it probably needs Harvest moved out of it's HA slot, but that's a separate issue.
Refer to the Arbok pattern issue
It's a shame. I like both mons
 
Sinnoh Mythicals:
Honestly, I'm kind of fine with how they handled the Sinnoh Mythicals and it feels like it makes sense why they're impossible to get:

Manaphy: First off, Manaphy isn't native to Sinnoh; it's not native anywhere. It's all in the Species name: The Seafaring Pokemon. Either it doesn't have a den or its den is on the bottom of the ocean. Eitherway, however Manaphy breed they do so in the middle of the ocean and sometimes an Egg gets lost and washes ashore somewhere. Thus why you can't get it in-game.
Of course, the argument Yung Dramps presented is with the distribution method. And indeed, it sucks it's one per cartridge instead one per save file (and/or also make it so it cannot send a Manaphy to the same game file). I can sort of see their thinking, wanting to emulate an Event experience, but there's some ethics behind this which makes the whole thing icky and probably shouldn't have been done.

Phione: I guess the reason for Phione is to maybe explain how there's a Manaphy Egg when Legendaries don't normally breed. Now they could have just said Manaphy are picky about when they breed cause we've seen other Legendary's Eggs and/or offspring (or its mentioned) yet they aren't able to make lesser version of themselves; but I guess since you actually obtain Manaphy's Egg they felt this instance was different. Alright, fine, so, turns out Manaphy are the only Legendary to breed, BUT since they require specific conditions to develop into a Manaphy it results the Egg into being a Phione. Though you could just casually breed a Legendary/Mythical? HA! Shame on you, here's a Water-type Glalie for your efforts to play (or rather mate) God.
Honestly it's not a bad idea, but maybe not executed in the best way cause there's really nothing about Manaphy's theming which would make you think it could breed aside you normally get one via hatching a special Egg.

Darkrai: Why was it split from Cresselia? Because it's purposely hiding itself away from people cause it can't stop giving those around it nightmares, it doesn't want to be near others and doesn't want to be found. "How is that different from any other Legendary"? While other Legendaries like being secluded, they're not exactly opposed to be approached by someone "worthy" either because something is needed of them or the "worthy" wants to challenge them. Cresselia wings are able to give good dreams in addition to curing those out of Darkrai's nightmares, sure it lives on an island in seclusion but knows its power may be needed so does not opposed being visited by "worthy". Not so with Darkrai, "worthy" or not Darkrai wishes to be left alone. Why did Darkrai put Eldritch's son in a neverending nightmare? Who knows, lore seems to indicate Darkrai keep secluded because they don't actually want others to suffer yet such a life is lonely so once in a while a Darkrai may pull a victim into a neverending nightmare just to have a "friend" (though sadly the results look to be fatal if the ghost girl's story in B2W2's Strange House is anything to go by). This of course leads to Sinnoh's Darkrai event where, seemingly intrigued by the player who Cresselia considered worthy and broke his victim from the nightmare, breaks its seclusion and sets it up to meet the player. It's not the player going to find Darkrai, it's Darkrai finding the player.

Shaymin: Yeah, Seabreak Path is kind of silly and more GF showing off what they could do with the new tech as DreamPrince said, but in Shaymin's defense it at least got a unique location to itself unlike modern day Mythicals.

Arceus: I mean, it's Pokemon GOD. You're same argument for why its presence is absent is also the explanation for why you don't encounter it. When was the last time you casually came across an avatar of God? Sure, you come across its children and other Legendaries that are nearly god-like, but Arceus is the very top, the Alpha, beyond you or me. You're going to be asked to be a bit more than just explore if you want to meet it, something that's beyond a normal player's control; an Event.

Though as I've said in the past, I'm all for them De-Mythifying Mythicals after their debut generation (or at least the majority of them, like Darkrai and Shaymin do really have no reason to remain Mythical).

Tropius has no variation as to what its growing, and it doesn't directly connect to any berry seen ingame (nanab berries are pink, for reference). Gen 3 did have a method for determining what fruit/berries a given pokemon likes, but still couldn't implement noticeable variants due to lacking a solid foundation for form changes (it had Spinda and Deoxys, but they were unique and not very generalizable). We're now at the point where everything is available for an interesting set of variants for Tropius or an evolution (and have potentially been since gen 4), and it would be far from the only mon nowadays with a set of different forms for a thematic gimmick. It means Tropius is now a mon that you can tell it's old without checking anything. It doesn't help that it hasn't been in the base dex for any non-Hoenn region where it might receive that update.

Well Tropius is far from the only Pokemon that has some fruit theme which doesn't relate to a holdable Berry. Cherubi and Cherrim has these pink "berries" they grow (Cherubi's has a face disturbingly, though dex says it eats it anyway), Applin family are based around apples which aren't considered a berry, heck, the fruit Tropius eats looks to be the same fruit for the Fruit Bunch ingredient used to make Tropical Curry.

Sadly, I don't think giving it a form change gimmick is really going to help it, it got a bad Typing and a stat spread totally unfit for it.

Here's a better question about Tropius: Why the F@#$ can it fly? Like, okay, I guess having a Pokemon use leafs as wings was the idea... but to make it a sauropod? GF, what media did you see a brontosaurus flying? Like, okay, I get idea of combining a long neck animal with a fruit-bearing tree, but to also combine it with a flying element? Felt like it was two separate ideas GF didn't want to make two separate Pokemon for so combined them cause banana tree leaves were long enough to be used as wings. Tropius could have been a Grass/Dragon than Grass/Flying; still wouldn't help it much but better than it has now.
 
Arceus: I mean, it's Pokemon GOD. You're same argument for why its presence is absent is also the explanation for why you don't encounter it. When was the last time you casually came across an avatar of God? Sure, you come across its children and other Legendaries that are nearly god-like, but Arceus is the very top, the Alpha, beyond you or me. You're going to be asked to be a bit more than just explore if you want to meet it, something that's beyond a normal player's control; an Event.
I understand the idea of keeping it sort of intentionally mysterious and out of the way but... I don't think the core Sinnoh games did a particularly good job at that. An example of what I'm getting it is PMD Explorers of Sky where Arceus was only present as a statue at the end of the optional dungeon Destiny Tower. Sounds lame, but I think that this one little reference alone did a great job at building a sense of suspense and intrigue at Arceus' purpose in this universe; a being beyond anything you are capable of recruiting, its memory only preserved in a secluded statue on a faraway tower. DPPt really needed a moment like that that built a similar amount of distant curiosity about this Pokemon, rather than just the typical Mythical in-world silence. I also mentioned the whole issue of Arceus' event being straight-up cancelled which could be its own Mysteries and Conspiracies conversation since as I alluded to the official reasoning for why it was scrapped has... a couple of holes, to say the least.
 
Huh? What ethics?

Well first thing to keep in mind is that there's no physical reason for the "one per cartridge" rule. It's not like they physically only have one Manaphy in each cartridge, and when you transfer it the game no longer has the Manaphy in it. No, the code to generate a Manaphy is still in the cartridge, they just programmed the cart to lock off creating any more Manaphy once a single transfer is done (so if you were able to hack into the cart and do like a factory reset or just remove the restriction you can have all the Manaphy you want).

This is where the "ethics" part comes in, and it's part of the classic case of what does the consumer actually "own" when they buy the product. Simply put, I bought the cartridge, therefore everything on that cartridge belongs to me now. However, the company had decided that this certain feature on the cartridge I should no longer have access to after using it once; the average person has no way to undo this. One can view this as the Pokemon Company had just gone beyond their reach, taking something away from the consumer that was legally bought and the consumer didn't know would happen upon purchase of the product.
 
The one thing I disagree with is Arceus' location.

The top of the Spear Pillar is perfect for it, the foundation was already set, it just needed to be above that.

*Cue a literal stairway to heaven.*
My problem is not the concept (it makes sense), but its execution. The hall of origin is just not visually interesting at all. I get this was the DS and only so much could be done, but surely they could've made a more interesting throne room for the deity of the Pokemon universe than just a floating glass floor. Here's to Legends amending this by, say, expanding it into a full Distortion World-esque dungeon
 
Well first thing to keep in mind is that there's no physical reason for the "one per cartridge" rule. It's not like they physically only have one Manaphy in each cartridge, and when you transfer it the game no longer has the Manaphy in it. No, the code to generate a Manaphy is still in the cartridge, they just programmed the cart to lock off creating any more Manaphy once a single transfer is done (so if you were able to hack into the cart and do like a factory reset or just remove the restriction you can have all the Manaphy you want).

This is where the "ethics" part comes in, and it's part of the classic case of what does the consumer actually "own" when they buy the product. Simply put, I bought the cartridge, therefore everything on that cartridge belongs to me now. However, the company had decided that this certain feature on the cartridge I should no longer have access to after using it once; the average person has no way to undo this. One can view this as the Pokemon Company had just gone beyond their reach, taking something away from the consumer that was legally bought and the consumer didn't know would happen upon purchase of the product.

The whole mythical aspect is lost though if you can just continually transfer multiple Manaphy from the same game. I personally thought The way it was executed was great, a great advertisement for (imo) one of their best sidegames and a Mythical not being locked to an isolated event. Ofc I may be biased as Manaphy will always be special to me as the first legal Mythical Pokemon I was able to obtain as prior to this and later WiFi events, Australia was not a hotspot for events.
 
The whole mythical aspect is lost though if you can just continually transfer multiple Manaphy from the same game. I personally thought The way it was executed was great, a great advertisement for (imo) one of their best sidegames and a Mythical not being locked to an isolated event. Ofc I may be biased as Manaphy will always be special to me as the first legal Mythical Pokemon I was able to obtain as prior to this and later WiFi events, Australia was not a hotspot for events.
"One per save" is a much better way to implement something unique than "one per cartridge".

If you gate the transfer behind completing the game, that's perfectly fine to give a effort -> reward situation while still not allowing to just brutally spam copies of it.
 
"One per save" is a much better way to implement something unique than "one per cartridge".

If you gate the transfer behind completing the game, that's perfectly fine to give a effort -> reward situation while still not allowing to just brutally spam copies of it.

Eh one per save is still easily repeatable and yes while there would still be some effort involved, its not like Ranger was a super hard game, and it would be very easy to have 10 Manaphy in a few days.
 
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