SS OU Updated - Looking for some help with my team

[Brembo]

Hi guys

I have been playing Pokemon showdown for years, and while I’m not particularly great at it, in previous generations I have at least managed to hover in and around the 1600’s. I was having some troubles this generation, however I seem to have gotten back on track.

Anyway, I would like to spend a little bit of time telling you about what I would like to achieve. I have always only used Pokemon that I can breed or obtain myself in the main series games (for example wish blissey is not something I can legitimately obtain, and so I would never build a team with that in).

Secondly I like to use the Pokemon that I like within reason, Or I suppose you could say I don’t like to use pokemon that I don’t like. I understand that I can’t run 6 Charizard’s but at the same time, I would really love to fit Cinderace, Toxapex, Clefable and Corviknight into my team or as many of them as is reasonable, they have to be able to work together. I really do not like Mandibuzz or magearna and would like to keep them out of my team, however I do appreciate they are freaking awesome.

Thirdly, I don’t like to duplicate types, I understand it’s unavoidable sometimes, however I would like to avoid as much of this as possible.

I appreciate there are some restrictions, but I want to be able to use a team I enjoy.

I am never going to hit the top 10 or anything like that, but there’s no reason I can’t build a strong team, so with that in mind let’s take a look at the team:

Pokepaste: Click here

So after a lot of playing around and many changes to the team, these are the 6 I have gone with, and have been having much more success with. They are all pokemon I like and they do work together fairly well. I had originally been running a Zeroara along with Cinderace to form a Volt-Turn core, however I found that I needed the extra move on Cinderace, and also that Zeroara doesn't function nearly as well as it did.

I was also originally running a Hippo to deal with opposing Cinderace and Zeroara lacking grass knot, and to set rocks. While it can do this, I find it way to passive and it just seemed to be a momentum stall in my team. Also only having Earthquake as an attacking option can be problematic, so I switched to Toxapex, which while passive, can spread toxic and can also take hits well on both sides of the spectrum, and had my Zeroara to deal with other Zeroara which was less than ideal in my opinion, and Cinderace could be worked around.

After that I was running Urshifu to punch holes in things and also provide a Ghost Resist, as well as a dragon dance Dragopult (A pokemon I really enjoy using) in oder to burn sucker punch Cinderace and also to provide more offensive momentum.

I made the change from Jolly Urshifu to jolly Excadrill with Special Defence investment to better deal with Magearna who was a huge issue to the team, I then replaced Pult with Hydregion to retain my ghost resist that I had lost with Urshifu and to provide a wall breaker who can utilise special attack, and has the ability to set up against things like Hippodon and Toxapex (If your brave enough to risk a toxic).

Cinderace (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Zen Headbutt
- Sucker Punch
- Bulk Up

Cinderace I guess is the star of the show, it reminds me to some extent of Protean Greninja. It’s a very basic set, but Libero speaks for itself and makes it a great tool to finish teams off with, and even just to punch holes into. Heavy Duty Boots is obviously used to keep Cinderace as healthy as possible by avoiding entry hazards. Pyro Ball and Zen Headbut speak for themselves, sucker punch helps me to deal with dragopult, and also Alakazam, which my corviknight is used to u-turn into. Bulk up is then used for the obvious, however I do like gunk shot to deal with Clefable, so this is something I often can’t make my mind up about.

Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot

So I really want to put an Adamant Dragopult here as it allows me to burn sucker punch cinderace and provides resistances against Pyro ball and an immunity to high jump kick, however I can’t ignore how good Hydregion is. Firstly it adds that important ghost type resist to the team, and secondly another immunity to ground, which allows it to come in against Hippodowdan and set up. This thing is great at punching holes in things that don’t want holes punching in them, Draco makes bold toxapex and impish mandibuzz die with ease after 1 nasty plot and even has very favourable odds of landing a 1HKO on both a fully invested 252 HP/252 SpDef Careful Mandibuzz and Calm Toxapex at 100% HP. Flamethrower kills ferrothorn and bisharp, with the added benefit of its typing resisting Bisharps sucker punch, and flash cannon causes Clefable some problems, all in all this thing certainly performs well. Levitate also became more of a selling point given I technically have 3 pokemon weak to Earthquake (Though Cinderace can be whatever type it wants to be) and I feel that having 2 Ground type immunities helps to balance that out.

Excadrill (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SpD / 32 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock

I decided to change to Excadrill in order give myself a ground type immunity, have a stealth rock setter and also to provide some insurance against Maegerna. Iron Head is used to pressure Togekiss and Clefable, and I opted for swords dance to take advantage of the switches Excadrill can force, however I have also considered rapid spin, more for the speed boost rather than a second way of dealing with hazards which don’t seem nearly as common this generation thanks to heavy Boots. Mold breaker is run to hit things like Rotom H, and the Ev spread listed above allows it to take 1 overheat and revenge kill in an emergency, as well as to deal comfortably with Magearna.

Toxapex (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Haze
- Recover

I think everybody knows what Toxapex does by now, and this is pretty much that, the exception is that it is running 160 Sp. Def EV’s which allow it to take 2 psychics after black sludge recovery from unboosted Volcarona, and then proceed to Haze it and try to hit it with toxic. On top of that it provides good coverage and helps me deal with things like Aegislash. Overall I love it as a switch in due to regenerator essentially making it a very cheap switch. I can't help but wonder if Slowbro would be a better option here, though I really am not Slowbro's biggest fan, and I don't want to lose Haze support, which in conjunction with Clefable's Unaware adds a lot of safety against Boosting Teams. Overall with regenerator this thing can take a knock off if something on my team has to be sacrificed to take a knock off and still function very well. This set can also deal with Crawdaunt and Bisharp which Slowbro doesn't like taking dark moves from.

Clefable (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Protect

So I love Clefable... so much so I have actually bred 5 sets in Pokemon Sword. And I have used pretty much every combination of it competitively. I love Magic Guard, however the idea behind this one running Unaware with a Bold nature is to deal with setup sweepers. Belly Drum Azumarill, Dragon Dance Dragopult, Dragon Dance Gyarados and Hawlucha can’t really do anything to this set without some crit or flinch luck, and it can also helps out Toxapex deal with Timid Volcorona so long as it is at full health. Thunder Wave is used to cripple the various attackers that it is meant to hinder. I would absolutely love to run Aromatherapy here instead of TW, however Clefable needs to be able to do something to punish the various boosted attackers it is required to deal with.

Corviknight (M) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

Knight is part of the team in order to provide defog support and also as a way of dealing with Alakazam, ideally I would u turn into cinderace and spam sucker punch. It obviously has the added benefit of being able to get in Cinderace or Hydregion in other situations. The set still allows me to deal with Rillaboom, though I have to accept the knock off, and the shed shell is used so I don’t have to worry about Magnezone, that said I am considering switching to leftovers considering how uncommon Magnezone actually is. This thing is also a safe switch in to Hippo allowing me to then defog away the rocks they set, and use pressure to dissuade it to keep trying to set them.

Closing Thoughts

I'm thinking of changing my Toxapex for Slowbro, as Slowbro can deal with Cinderace, Rapid Strikes Urshifu and still handle scizor and removes 1 of the 3 ground type weaknesses my team has, though I hate Slowbro. Even though I have unaware Clefable, I like to be able to use haze for scizor and also volcorona, so I do very much like toxapex. Also pex stands up to bisharps knock off better than slowbro, it also stands up better to crawdaunt and because of regenerator if I know I have to sacrifice something to take a knock off, it’s usually pex.

So there you have it. All in all I enjoy this team and feel it is fairly well balanced. Any opinions, advice or comments are appreciated.

There are threats to this team as with everything.

Opposing Cinderace can be a problem due to the variety of their potential moves.

Kingdra in the Rain is horrible, it 2 shots toxapex with a hydro pump and then a Draco meteor.

Zeroara Can be a problem.

Thank you for taking the time to read through this, I understand that I have an unconventional way of putting my teams together, but any help, especially any that allow me to retain my principles stated above will be greatly appreciated.

Brembo

 

[Mistytunes]

Hi!

Thanks for posting your team, I'm no expert haha, but I've been having a lot of the same issues, especially since the Isle of Armor addition. All in all, your teams really solid, it has a nice balance of offensive and defensive, with great mons to boot. Clefable and Toxapex are both incredible, with reliable recovery, a solid movepool, and good status moves, so I definitely recommend keeping them around.

My biggest issue with the team is that it seems too... normal? I knew how each mon was going to function, because that's exactly how they should work, ideally, you should try to make opponents think -- sending in your Tangrowth against Excadrill seems like a great play, but what if Excadrill had Poison Jab? Sending in Urishifu against Corviknight, only to get OK-ed by a Body Press. Some variations and such that make the game more interesting for both players, you know? That's why mons like Cinderace are so popular, there's no one way to play it. By all means, try changing up some of your teams movesets.

with that, I have a couple of suggestions:

-->

Corviknight is a great mon, and I really enjoy using it: it's sleek, has a great movepool, and great defense, too. However, for the issues that you're facing, I think a Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet would really benefit your team. Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet is one of the classic ways to chip down a offensive monster, like Urishifu or Zerora. You can run a variety of moves, like Gyro Ball, Power Whip and Toxic for additional chip damage, but all in all, I think you could seriously benefit from this Pokemon, especially if you plan on using Slowbro.

-->

"If you can't beat somebody, join them", is basically my reasoning behind this one. It's great to switch into opposing Electric types with Volt Absorb, which can be especially useful with Water-types like Toxapex. Zeraora is honestly so versatile, it can be used to status other mons, or just straight-up decimate them. I understand that you've used one in the past, but with it's wide movepool, it can be used for anything you could possibly want -- Grass Knot to trip up Seismitoad and Excadrill, Plasma Fist and Play Rough to pack a punch against dragons, or Bulk Up to be used as a late game sweeper. Thunder Wave might also be a move you might want to run to deal with Magearna, and with moves like Fire Punch + Bulk Up, you can give your Cinderace a nice push to help clean up the late game.

As far as movesets go, the only issues I really have is Draco Meteor Hydreigon, it's such a fantastic wallbreaker, but it's no good if it's constantly switched out. Flash Cannon and Flamethrower are great ways to lure out Fairy and Steel type counters, but Draco Meteor nicely destroys all of the work in setting up Nasty Plot's. Ideas for the last moveslot really depend on your preferences, Surf could be used to deal with opposing Cinderace, Dark Pulse for Psychic types like Alakazam and Mew, but as far as moves go, dragon-types don't really go as far as they used too. It's too easy to switch into the local Clefable, and every minute counts with big, strong Pokemon like Life Orb Hydreigon.

Thank you for listening, good luck in climbing the ladder! Constantly switching out your mons isn't a crime, so please, play around with what you like and what works out for you! happy gaming, and good luck.

 

[Mistytunes]

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

I definitely appreciate all that's being said, and because I've never really played with some of the mons on your team, it's great that you took time to explain the issues you have with your teams counters-- Magerna is such a useful special attacker, but the same reasons why it's so popular mean it takes so much to get rid of, too.

In regards to the team changes, I can see where you're coming from: of course you choose each Pokemon for their specific niche in the tier, and making them play together well (like Clefable and Toxapex work on each other's weaknesses, and help soften teams for late-game sweepers, like Swords Dance Excadrill or Hydreigon) is super important too. Another tool I've used before that you might already know about is Pokemon Database's moveset searcher, which helps a lot when deciding Pokemon or counters (for example, if you want a Swords Dancer who can also use Fire Punch to help cripple those pesky Steel-types).

While I've never really seen the appeal of Draco Meteor, I can see what you mean by it being important for a wallbreaker, especially once you've got the Nasty Plot buff. Unaware Clefable is honestly more common than a lot of people give it credit for, so I would still recommend having some more power to help deal with rival Clefable, Ferrothorn, Toxapex, etc etc.

Most importantly, I think it's fantastic that you're both looking for advice and thinking about it, so keep it up! Good luck with your team. ^^

 

[sufys]

Hi!

Thanks for posting your team, I'm no expert haha, but I've been having a lot of the same issues, especially since the Isle of Armor addition. All in all, your teams really solid, it has a nice balance of offensive and defensive, with great mons to boot. Clefable and Toxapex are both incredible, with reliable recovery, a solid movepool, and good status moves, so I definitely recommend keeping them around.

My biggest issue with the team is that it seems too... normal? I knew how each mon was going to function, because that's exactly how they should work, ideally, you should try to make opponents think -- sending in your Tangrowth against Excadrill seems like a great play, but what if Excadrill had Poison Jab? Sending in Urishifu against Corviknight, only to get OK-ed by a Body Press. Some variations and such that make the game more interesting for both players, you know? That's why mons like Cinderace are so popular, there's no one way to play it. By all means, try changing up some of your teams movesets.

with that, I have a couple of suggestions:
View attachment 261494--> View attachment 261495
Corviknight is a great mon, and I really enjoy using it: it's sleek, has a great movepool, and great defense, too. However, for the issues that you're facing, I think a Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet would really benefit your team. Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet is one of the classic ways to chip down a offensive monster, like Urishifu or Zerora. You can run a variety of moves, like Gyro Ball, Power Whip and Toxic for additional chip damage, but all in all, I think you could seriously benefit from this Pokemon, especially if you plan on using Slowbro.
View attachment 261497-->View attachment 261498
"If you can't beat somebody, join them", is basically my reasoning behind this one. It's great to switch into opposing Electric types with Volt Absorb, which can be especially useful with Water-types like Toxapex. Zeraora is honestly so versatile, it can be used to status other mons, or just straight-up decimate them. I understand that you've used one in the past, but with it's wide movepool, it can be used for anything you could possibly want -- Grass Knot to trip up Seismitoad and Excadrill, Plasma Fist and Play Rough to pack a punch against dragons, or Bulk Up to be used as a late game sweeper. Thunder Wave might also be a move you might want to run to deal with Magearna, and with moves like Fire Punch + Bulk Up, you can give your Cinderace a nice push to help clean up the late game.
View attachment 261499
As far as movesets go, the only issues I really have is Draco Meteor Hydreigon, it's such a fantastic wallbreaker, but it's no good if it's constantly switched out. Flash Cannon and Flamethrower are great ways to lure out Fairy and Steel type counters, but Draco Meteor nicely destroys all of the work in setting up Nasty Plot's. Ideas for the last moveslot really depend on your preferences, Surf could be used to deal with opposing Cinderace, Dark Pulse for Psychic types like Alakazam and Mew, but as far as moves go, dragon-types don't really go as far as they used too. It's too easy to switch into the local Clefable, and every minute counts with big, strong Pokemon like Life Orb Hydreigon.

Thank you for listening, good luck in climbing the ladder! Constantly switching out your mons isn't a crime, so please, play around with what you like and what works out for you! happy gaming, and good luck.

The thing is that if you remove Corviknight and Excadrill, you remove all of your ways to remove hazards. hazards would be a pain to your team especiallly spikes. Because of this I recommend keeping either Corviknight or excadrill, or replacing Corviknight with a defogger like Mandibuzz to help with hazards

 

[Mistytunes]

I have this vague phantom memory of Ferrothorn being able to learn Rapid Spin, which is where it probably comes from lol. Mandibuzz is a great mon, especially running Foul Play it can pack a punch against physical wallbreakers.

 

[Brembo]

Nah Forretress was the one that can spin, thorn can’t sadly