They were not stray. They were a group on unarmed journalists. Still, we are talking from an outside perspective, it's like criticizing a referee in a football match when we get to see like 20 replays and they have to make a split second decision on what happened.No? Its not their fault if people get killed. It is a warzone. There was bullets fired, and sorry, but soldiers, actually NOBODY except for Magneto (hint: he isn't real), can control where a bullet goes. They go stray from time to time. If we had a fucking court martial every time someone innocent got hit by a bullet, we wouldn't have fucking soldiers left.
This is a Cannon 70 200mm, the camera one of the journalists carried.Still, we are talking from an outside perspective, it's like criticizing a referee in a football match when we get to see like 20 replays and they have to make a split second decision on what happened.
That in ITSELF shows the soldiers fired upon unarmed citizens. There WAS NO THREAT.5th April 2010 10:44 EST WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff.
Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.
It wasn't a stray bullet, where did you read that? They were targeting the citizens because the unarmed men women and children were still a "threat." Are you seriously defending their actions?No? Its not their fault if people get killed. It is a warzone. There was bullets fired, and sorry, but soldiers, actually NOBODY except for Magneto (hint: he isn't real), can control where a bullet goes. They go stray from time to time. If we had a fucking court martial every time someone innocent got hit by a bullet, we wouldn't have fucking soldiers left.
It's not like they were under fire though, I thought they weren't aloud to open fire on anybody who is not threatening them outright without attempting to communicate first.They were not stray. They were a group on unarmed journalists. Still, we are talking from an outside perspective, it's like criticizing a referee in a football match when we get to see like 20 replays and they have to make a split second decision on what happened.
I don't know this applies to the military, I think it's the police only.It's not like they were under fire though, I thought they weren't aloud to open fire on anybody who is not threatening them outright without attempting to communicate first.
Those were not the rules of engagement that day.Fink said:It's not like they were under fire though, I thought they weren't aloud to open fire on anybody who is not threatening them outright without attempting to communicate first.
IAWTP.If I was a soldier in a warzone I would probably kill anyone who looked at me funny. I avoid this by not being a soldier in a warzone. Remember kids, dont join the army.
War crimes are constantly being committed by every side in every conflict. The solution is to stop going to war, unless you are willing to accept responsibility for those crimes.
Have a nice day.
They did not fire on the wounded guy until the van rolled in and tried to pick him up.What does interest me is that they were shooting at the injured/crawling; that I did think was banned, I thought they were supposed to go in and collect them as POWs.
Although I agree with you completely that the soldiers are not at fault, I believe that your argument blaming the terrorists for civilian deaths is not entirely correct. After all, if you look at any war in recorded history, you will be hard pressed to find a war where the civilian casualties did not outnumber those of the soldiers. This is simply a fact of war, using terrorist and guerrilla tactics increases civilian deaths, but unless both sides went and fought it out in Antarctica, there would be civilian deaths.Stuff about Terrorists
this wasn't a split second decision, they were watching these guys for 20 minutes do nothing but point a camera at the ground, while begging permission to shoot them. and i'm tired of the whole "shit happens in war" excuse. it pisses me off and it allows people to excuse evil because of the mere fact that one or more criminal gangs declared a given area a "war zone". Evil is evil, and pretending that real war with real people was a video game where the goal of the game is to rack up kills is...evil, and the ideology that leads people to respond to the shooting of an innocent child with "Oh well" is evil too.deck/veedrock/reverb/ferrous]stupid neoconservative shit
Perhaps you might want to watch the video rather then blindly copy what was said by the press.AMERICUH STRONG
We haven't actually won a war in 60 years, but we're sure kickass at shooting reporters and children!
A few initial points:
There was absolutely no indication that the reporters had a weapon. They sat around for 15-20 minutes, never pointing the camera anywhere near the helicopter.
The party on the ground had papers and other things in their hands showing that they were definitely not insurgents.
It is clear that these guys were enjoying killing - it felt fucking surreal, almost like they forgot they were in a real war with real people and were flying around on Modern Warfare or something. I guess that's what cultural militarism does to people.
Even when they found out they shot a kid, it was like "Ah, damn, oh well". Oh well? OH WELL? You shot a child from a helicopter and your immediate moral response is "Oh well"? To normal people, this is incomprehensible. In "THE GREATEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD", it's par for the course.
Just putting this here to show why the whole "militarism/world police/pax Americana" concept is really, really evil.
this wasn't a split second decision, they were watching these guys for 20 minutes do nothing but point a camera at the ground, while begging permission to shoot them. and i'm tired of the whole "shit happens in war" excuse. it pisses me off and it allows people to excuse evil because of the mere fact that one or more criminal gangs declared a given area a "war zone". Evil is evil, and pretending that real war with real people was a video game where the goal of the game is to rack up kills is...evil.
You do realize it is not uncommon for Muslim soldiers to not only hide behind children, but also to raise them to be radicals, Hitler-Youth style? It would take me a mere Google image search on "Palestine child terrorists" to provide photo evidence.AMERICUH STRONG
We haven't actually won a war in 60 years, but we're sure kickass at shooting reporters and children!
A few initial points:
There was absolutely no indication that the reporters had a weapon. They sat around for 15-20 minutes, never pointing the camera anywhere near the helicopter.
The party on the ground had papers and other things in their hands showing that they were definitely not insurgents.
It is clear that these guys were enjoying killing - it felt fucking surreal, almost like they forgot they were in a real war with real people and were flying around on Modern Warfare or something. I guess that's what cultural militarism does to people.
Even when they found out they shot a kid, it was like "Ah, damn, oh well". Oh well? OH WELL? You shot a child from a helicopter and your immediate moral response is "Oh well"? To normal people, this is incomprehensible. In "THE GREATEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD", it's par for the course.
Just putting this here to show why the whole "militarism/world police/pax Americana" concept is really, really evil.
How the hell is this related.P.S. Are you against video games? Just curious.
It's shit like this that makes people turn on you. The rest of your post is fairly accurate. However, using the adjectives "Muslim" and "Palestine" only serve to label you - and your post - as a right wing nut. They use child soldiers because they are terrible fucking human beings, not because they're followers of Islam.You do realize it is not uncommon for Muslim soldiers to not only hide behind children, but also to raise them to be radicals, Hitler-Youth style? It would take me a mere Google image search on "Palestine child terrorists" to provide photo evidence.
Perhaps you might want to watch the video rather then blindly copy what was said by the press.
so wait, you can't have personal weapons in the middle of fucking baghdad? the point was, there was no RPGs, there was nothing that presented a threat to the apache.First, if you actually watch the video, you can see that there actually were weapons in the crowd.
they weren't insurgents ffsSecond, that the reporters has gone and been embedded in the insurgent group, not the most survival oriented idea in a massive military conflict, though it makes you more likely to get the story.
sorry you have no moral bearingThird, "shit happens in war" sorry if you hate that excuse, but shit happens. Every time a person dies is a tragedy, when it happens a lot it's a statistic. Simple fact of human nature.
no really, the correct human response to innocent people dying is NOT "shit happens"
maybe consider it in the context of the quotes in the video, such as "Look at those dead bastards" and "RIGHT THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD", juxtaposed with the lack of concern with dead children.Fifth, "Begging for permission to shoot them"...Bull Shit, "Request Permission to Engadge" is not the same as something like "Can I kill them, please."
Every last one a failure. Korea? Bay of Pigs? Failure. Vietnam? Failure. First Gulf War? Failure. Afghanistan? TBD, but looking like a failure. Iraq 2.0? Looks good for now I suppose. If it involves shooting and killing, it's a war.Sixth, America hasn't had a war in 60 years, only police actions.
"Look at them dead bastards". That doesn't sound like a "do what I have to do" mindset.Seventh, How the fuck was it obvious that the people enjoyed killing? There is a line between legitimate criticism, and lunatic raving, and I'm afraid that you are far past that line.
Edit:
So has slavery. And institutionalized rape. And despotism. I guess those are okay too, right?Ninth, at the end of the day, your rhetoric might be nice and happy, but you can't solve for the fact that there has been war since the beginning of recorded history,
No, but I feel that they're just an extension of militaristic nationalism and the glorifying of killing foreigners.P.S. Are you against video games? Just curious.
Deck, I'm just not a peace through strength guy. Saddam was evil, but I am still deeply opposed to the concept that one must project power worldwide in order to have peace and security.
According to their version of Islam (which iirc, is largely the Wahhabism popularized in radical Saudi Arabian mosques), the greatest honor is to martyr oneself for Allah, even for a child. So I could clarify by saying Wahhabist, but I think people understand I'm restricting it mostly to terrorists and their enablers. Most Muslims are not terrorists, but the vast majority of terrorists subscribe to some version (whether it is believed distorted or otherwise) of Islam, and those radicals strike so much fear into their neighbors that they become enablers (From a suicide bomber perspective, a huge portion of it is Muslim-on-Muslim violence). There are exceptions like the IRA and a few isolated nutcases, but the IRA doesn't have a religiously motivated global aspect to it.It's shit like this that makes people turn on you. The rest of your post is fairly accurate. However, using the adjectives "Muslim" and "Palestine" only serve to label you - and your post - as a right wing nut. They use child soldiers because they are terrible fucking human beings, not because they're followers of Islam.