Seize Your Doom
How many people died at Abu Ghraib? Zero. My Lai has nothing to do with these current conflicts. If we want to get into the entire history of every military, no military will be left untouched by scandal. Gitmo? You mean where prisoners get three fucking squares and throw piss and shit cocktails at American soldiers who cannot do so much as gesture back at them?I guess you chose to ignore the pictures showing Abu Gharib, My Lai, Guantanamo and such.
You're right, we should put Gitmo terrorists in with the general population of a Super Max for them to stand trial in a US court system.
They won't live the night.
Your entire worldview is all about guilt. We have to feel guilty for all the terrible shit humans do to each other. Guilt is an emotion with no value in a war. Do you know how many people would have died if we hadn't dropped the bombs? Japan was so militaristic (and indeed, imperialist) at the time their first wave sneak attack used kamikazes. Japanese pilots were locked into their airplanes, their goal was to attack and when you couldn't attack anymore to sacrifice your plane and your life. Countless people would have died in a land invasion of Japan.Um, did I defend terrorists using child soldiers? That's almost as immoral as shooting civillians as you please. Or raping and torturing prisoners at will. Or using chemical and nuclear weapons in wars that continue to plague the locals, still causing child defects and cancer after 60+ years (see Vietnam War and WWII). Or claiming to be a champion of human rights while ignoring all these, and even worse, feeling no guilt and trying to defend these actions.
I never claimed to be a champion of human rights, you are the one attempting to claim that mantle with your emotional moralism. Here's what guarantees human rights: an open democratic society with free and fair elections. Which the Iraqis now have after we deposed their former ruler under the assumption he was a threat to any nation within range of the nuclear weapons that global intelligence thought he was seeking. What happens inbetween is always ugly, just like the United States' Civil War was ugly.
I'm the ignorant fuck? As I recall, there were no Americans on the Iraqi ballots. America is on its way out of Iraq. They want to handle their own affairs and we're currently trying to ease out of there as the Iraqi police and army assume more and more responsibility. We've shifted from a combat role to a supervisory/mentor role, and soon we'll be shifting out of that. I know that doesn't jive with your narrative, but it's the reality on the ground.You have to be an ignorant fuck or a far-right American to think that Iraq War has nothing to do with petrol. Yes, Iraq isn't the 51th state now, but this doesn't change the fact that you still exercise control over their civil affairs.
Do you even understand the purpose of air support? Air support exists so that a potential terrorist with an RPG can't blow up a convoy heading in that direction, because the airplane neutralizes that threat. An apache helicopter is not looking out for it's own ass in a counterinsurgency, it's looking out for ground resources in the vicinity.That's the thing. A life of another human being lies in your hands. The pilot wasn't in immediate danger (read broth3r's post previous page) yet he decided to shoot anyway. Now, 12 men are killed. They are gone. Poof. Forever. They won't get a chance to live again. Did they really deserve to suffer the death they did for no reason? If a relative of yours or a loved one suffered such a fate, would you be able to "take it with a grain of salt"? Would you be able to say "shit happens" and shrug it off? Think about it. Whatever you believe in, human life is holy. Empathy is the word. I find it disgusting how you can find the killings of innocent people as a plausible act.
Whether or not they deserved death is irrelevant. It happened. It might have been a terrible, cruel mistake. Or we might have nailed an Al-Quaeda bigshot responsible for subway bombings in three nations. Here's a reason they died: wandering around with unmarked vehicles in a war zone characterized by an opponent that uses child soldiers, guerrilla tactics, and fights in civilian clothing. It's a pretty shitty reason to die if you're a hapless innocent, but it's a reason nonetheless.
That's a pretty big difference. It's the difference between fighting for a nation and vigilantism at best, terrorism at worst.Yes. It's impossible for any human being to defend the killings of civillians, or so I thought. The difference between terrorists and US soldiers is that one side wears uniforms, the other side doesn't.
I'm glad you brought up Haditha. Where 12 marines got wrongly accused by a sitting (now deceased) US Representative of murdering in cold blood with no evidence whatsoever. All of whom were acquitted. That doesn't matter though, because thanks to the late Congressman Murtha, Al-Quaeda got a huge PR boost.Really? What about Mahmudiyah? Or Hamdania? Haditha? Isaqi? Mukaradeeb? Guantanamo prisoner abuse? Waterboarding and beatings? Wait, that's enhanced interrogation.
This is what I was alluding to earlier. You operate based on the seriousness of the charge. The US military is guilty before proven innocent with you. I thought you had a problem with that, but I guess when it's the right target...Al-Quaeda said:"Even their own pig representatives say they are killers! ALLAHU ACKBAR! KILL THE KAFIR!"
The difference between Muslim terrorists and most of the other terrorists in the world is that most other terrorist groups are provincial. They have specific political goals for their own nation or their own desired but ultimately limited piece of property. These terrorists have the caliphate as a geopolitical goal which includes, among other things, making Islam the reigning political and religious force in the world. They operate with global goals and attack civilizations everywhere.Also, don't feed the bullshit about Islam playing a role in these terrorist incidents. I don't know if you have been following the news lately, but a massacre commited by Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) in northern Congo has been discovered. Quoting from Human Rights Watch:
Which all is what Islam should be, but isn't what these extremists have perverted it into. Unfortunately their fellow Muslim travelers are either fatwa'd into silence, or if a death threat and excommunication isn't good enough, beheading and suicide bombs will do the trick. I do have Muslim friends on Smogon. They are all bright and work hard to please their parents, akthough they do have a sneaky streak. The Saudi I met in college was more interested in Super Smash Bros. and some kind of smoked weed in a bag than establishing the caliphate. But their Islam is being perverted by these people and unfortunately until there is internal pressure on that fanatical branch, the only way to limit their influence is to stop their plots and kill their leaders.Religions were created/made up to give people a sense of morality. If it's the law that says you cannot steal, yet you know you won't be caught, you'd still go ahead and steal. If you knew that you'd burn in hell for stealing, you'd be reluctant to commit the crime.
Islam does say martyring oneself for Allah is a good deed. This only strictly includes dying while defending your country in the name of Islam on the frontlines against enemy soldiers. Blowing yourself up and killing civillians or other Muslims /=/ martyring yourself.
Don't accuse the US Military of Mass Murder when you know it isn't true, then. Don't pull this empathy bullshit on me; I'm neither dull nor cold, I simply have a firm grasp on reality, and the reality is that terrible things like this happen in a conflict zone. All you can do is what I first suggested, which is mourn for the families and move on.Final line: You are humans for fucks's sake. Have some feelings. Don't be so dull, so cold.
If only you would apply that sense of empathy you proclaim to have with the United States Soldier, Marine, Sailor, and Airman.