I am sorry if it sounded like I believed I was being called out by drcossack. I knew he wasn't referring to me - I was just saying that when originality is called out as negative and lucky it is no wonder there is such a lack of desire to run creative and fresh teams. If anything, I am in high agreement with drcossack - but as the top 8 match I lost was by the team in question - I can say that the pilot is just as important as the team - original or not. And it wasn't his Palkia or Ogre that beat me - so more poo on ubers (I really hate their decision to allow legendaries).
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US Regional Qualifier - Dallas, TX, May 29, 2010 - WON BY JGILES
- Thread starter Alaka
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@Firestorm "The reason I said you lucked out on your way there was because I'd heard you used Crunch on Tyranitar. I look forward to your warstory to see how you got past all the Kyogres and stuff."
Actually I used Crunch on my hippo to hit his top - not that it speaks much to my abilities either way. As I explained I clicked the wrong move autopiloting a victory I could smell. It was dumb and arrogant on my part and I paid the price. But again, he played smart throughout, followed through, and won a very good match.
Actually I used Crunch on my hippo to hit his top - not that it speaks much to my abilities either way. As I explained I clicked the wrong move autopiloting a victory I could smell. It was dumb and arrogant on my part and I paid the price. But again, he played smart throughout, followed through, and won a very good match.
drcossack
I'm everywhere, you ain't never there
You're right, but after hearing about the 49856496849689, I do get a little sick of it. I'm also surprised that nobody's prepared for it after 3 regionals.
Congrats either way.
I'm just fed second hand info and this what I was told, my information provider was unsure of the last Pokemon and thought it was Nidoqueen since he never got a good look.
But honestly I don't see how TopOgre loses to this team at all, your opponents must've been really bad because after doing calcs there is no realistic way for you to win vs a smart opponent. And if what my information provider says is true, one of your TopOgre opponents spammed Blizzard which is the incorrect move.
Well, I had lost round 3, to the same hacker that teej lost his match.
Well second hand information is worth .... anyway, to the point the missing poke is actually one of my leads - and it was Hippo.
I am curious how you ran your calcs when you don't know the poke's their IV's their EVs or their moveset ... or heck - even their held items. I gather you are well respected here, but this is just kind of .... well anyway ...
There are three major strategies working on the team. There are several little details. It is not an easy team to pilot - I'll see you at Nats and even if I don't run it, I'm happy to show you how it can beat someone that knows what they are doing. You can't really believe that with 654 competitors that I didn't hit anyone that knew what they were doing on my way to top 8? I am going to go buy a lottery ticket now.
He likely ran calcs based on worst case scenarios.
And lol nobody's being elitist. We're interested in the team because we've had absolutely no information about it aside from some accounts from people updating through their phones during the events. His team is obviously very different - and at first glance looks absolutely horrid for VGC - so we're asking questions.
Also, Jayque, you probably won't find too many "legendary" haters here as most people here look at Pokemon based on their ability in battles rather than their value to the storyline. Articuno may be legendary but I'd much rather fight one of those than another goddamn Toxicroak =[
And lol nobody's being elitist. We're interested in the team because we've had absolutely no information about it aside from some accounts from people updating through their phones during the events. His team is obviously very different - and at first glance looks absolutely horrid for VGC - so we're asking questions.
Also, Jayque, you probably won't find too many "legendary" haters here as most people here look at Pokemon based on their ability in battles rather than their value to the storyline. Articuno may be legendary but I'd much rather fight one of those than another goddamn Toxicroak =[
@Jayque
Unique teams do well. Phoenix showed that as well, running persian as the main lead.
Congratz Jayque.
Unique teams do well. Phoenix showed that as well, running persian as the main lead.
Congratz Jayque.
Of course I don't know your EVs, but simple calcs (best and worst case scenario) show that any sort of competent water spam can decimate the team. I'm not knocking your accomplishment, you did well with a unique team, but it is a bit odd that of your number of battles there seemed to be a lack of Rain which dominates the metagame as a whole.
Wow - I really hate to get in debates or beat the horse zonkers - but here goes.
Rather than say "hrmm maybe there is something different about this team" I get "joo lucky" "joo ridiculous" "joo are the Suxxorz" - but you are right, nothing elitist about my obvious and clear lack of knowledge to all things poke.
I haven't seen any questions ... I'm sorry if I missed them. I probably won't use the team again, so I am happy to explain. Yes the team is different. Yes, you have not seen it before and it is very unique and has several internal strategies designed completely around what I figured the meta would look like. It is designed to look weak where it is strong, and to do things that leave my opponent saying "that should not have worked". The fact that I am being told (in spite of the top 8 finish) there is no way it beats any of the meta - means I win.
I, along with many other people, would greatly appreciate and look forward to a warstory if you're willing.
No. Smogon is 3/4, if that. You guys don't get to claim Jonathon. He has like 10 posts. He's not a Smogonite, and no one knew who he was until he won. Just because someone visits a website doesn't mean he rubs elbows with the locals.
This. I'm excited that someone so active on the forums would say this. I often feel like this community is too exclusive and snooty, and I really enjoy when the big names get beat. Woot, underdogs. I'm sure it'd be different if the tournament was the same as what everyone plays all the time on Shoddy, but Nintendo threw everyone off. I didn't like the 2010 rules at first, but I actually really like the idea of changing the meta game from last year.
And +1 on the "So what, he copied a team" thought. Jonathon is an incredibly skilled player, and he effectively used a good team. There may have been a bunch of copies of Zerowing's team, but he specifically mentions something about getting ahead of the metagame by going to Seattle in his warstory. It's not like everyone didn't have a reason to be ready for TopOgre, and it's not like everyone who copied has won a regional (or even made tops). It is going to be really interesting to see what happens at nats though. More Zerowing teams? Zerowing counter teams? Counters to that? If the metagame seems stale to anyone now, just wait a little while. It's a young meta anyway, and it is likely to be in flux.
And woot Jayque! I loved your team +1000 for originality. Jonathon admits that you had him, and now you get to stuff it down everyone's throat when you bring yet another fresh idea to tops at nats. ;)
Ahhh - allow me to clear that up for you, since your information is somewhat off. I hit massive amounts of rain. The thing about me team that you are forgetting is that I have sandstream on two pokemon. As you know - sandstorm not only hurts them and breaks focus sash - but it also raises my special defense 50% on my rocks. And since the meta is special attack heavy I take the advantage. I was also running a trick room team ... which means I win the weather battle out of the gate (as the team was designed slow). I chose to control the weather when I saw a need or threat. Also - in a heavy water environment, I trust that you would believe an anti-water berry was in tow. Oh - and after winning the weather battle, and surviving max spouts through berry and raised SDF most teams couldn't take a couple of 'splosions to max out the damage. Oh, dialga, gengar,metagross, spiritomb,giratina and other anti-splosions... yes I had moves to account for them as well.
My team was very off and unsual. Nobody knew what my team was doing until too late into the match. It sounds like most on here missed the strategy as well. Or maybe I was just lucky.
People aren't going "omg joo sux", people are doing math and seeing that realistically a team consisting of ttar/solrock/hippo/nidoqueen gets completely decimated by a scarf Kyogre. The absolute worst-case scenarios for Kyogre's offense show your stuff getting completely manhandled by Kyogre, taking 75%+ from water spout. Pokemon's a game that has a lot of math going on, so we're just curious about how you overcame that and managed to NOT get killed in 2 water spouts.
Edit: Your post right before mine pretty much said what I'd expect -- passho. Even with the +50% special defense, the rocks get owned. I'm guessing the element of surprise helped you more than anything -- a fake out on your TR user combined with a spout would be disastrous, methinks.
Edit: Your post right before mine pretty much said what I'd expect -- passho. Even with the +50% special defense, the rocks get owned. I'm guessing the element of surprise helped you more than anything -- a fake out on your TR user combined with a spout would be disastrous, methinks.
Like I said, all information we had about your team made it sound as if you had just gotten lucky. We were going off the evidence which we had. Obviously it was a little faulty as he was updating off a phone while simultaneously updating us on our friends. You were only in our updates because you had an interesting team and everyone wanted to know how well you were doing.
If you write up a warstory like many others do on your experience, I'm sure you'll see a lot of posts and people will better understand what was going on. After all, the thing that most people are confused about is how you got past Water Spout Kyogres as it looks like you're very weak to it at first glance and after damage calculations.
Edit: Well, most of us assumed trick room explosion on solrock actually >.> I don't know what else it even does aside from trick room and explosion. And yes, damage calcs were on the 50% sandstorm boost and we assumed you'd get it second considering it's a Hippodown!
Alright Jayque, congratulations on how far you made it, but please try to understand why some of us are sounding elitist to you. We see a massive rain weakness (I could see ScarfOgre single handedly decimating your team, or any Swift Swimmer for that matter) in a rain-filled metagame and we are naturally curious as to how you beat them. Telling us that you had multiple strategies running doesn't tell us a thing about how you did beat them. I for one am slightly frustrated at your refusal to even list out a specific sentence or two describing how you did beat them, especially because you say you don't even plan on using this team again. Perhaps you want to save it for a warstory, but I think a small preview would not hurt.
EDIT: Even in SS as firestorm states, you still take a shitload from Water Spouts even outside of rain. You can also only pack one Passho berry, so I am really curious to see how you circumvented everything in detail.
EDIT: Even in SS as firestorm states, you still take a shitload from Water Spouts even outside of rain. You can also only pack one Passho berry, so I am really curious to see how you circumvented everything in detail.
Awesome. I thought it might be a TR team. After tr is setup this team could own (and apparently it did). Please do a warstory if you have the time. I seems that smogon is just pining for one. :P
I am not going to post a war story, as I would not be able to get the details right. I can’t remember every move, so please – take the below as my pseudo war-story. It will explain things. I didn’t want to explain everything – because honestly, I’m very proud of the team and would rather hold it close to my chest. It worked, it disrupted, it caught everyone off guard. I wouldn’t want to face the copy, but from the reaction – hehe probably not an issue. Now – I’m an excel junky, and I have built a damage calculator myself – which I will use to answer some questions.
Leads:
Hippowdon @ focus sash (whose speed wins all weather battles)
Solrock @ passho berry – had 128 SDF (important to damage calcs)
Why a Passho berry – because I expected a lot of water spouts.
I designed the team after running many damage calcs. Max power Kyogre has 222 SAT. My Solrock in a Sandstorm has 192 SDF. This puts a waterspout at 199-234 damage. Now, cut that in half thanks to Passho and Solrock lives.
Hippo runs EQ
Trick Room goes off, since the solrock survives. Next turn Hippo goes first
Hippo digs. Explosion by Solrock.
Next turn – Regirock in – Regirock (holding a training item cutting his speed by 50%) is mad slow (or fast in TR). He explodes before the dig goes off. Dig pings anything alive without fly/levitate.
Now – does it always go that pretty – nope (in fact it was flawless maybe twice – I don’t remember). Weather battles with Abomas and Groudons required switch to Tyranitar when I perceived enough danger/damage to require the switch. Ghosts required a different tactic (which is why I had an available crunch to screw up the last move of my last match). The team required proper opponent predicting and very careful move selection – while managing time left on trick room, current weather situation, and field pokes vs. what was in reserve.
I realize this isn’t a great war story – I just read some good ones and wish I had the details remembered to write a good one. At the very least hopefully you can see what was going on … maybe it makes sense now. The team was designed to disrupt a very predictable environment. What kind of fool would be crazy enough to utilize weak poke’s like hippowdon just to win weather. Or blow up half the team as a primary strategy … me. (oh and I forgot to tell you how to handle flinchers – but I guess some stuff you gotta think on your own).
On a final note – none of the pokes I ran were RNGd. They were bred the old fashioned way – with hours spent hatching, raising, checking, IVs, and deleting. Most had no more than 2 x 31’s – but they had them were it counts.
Deleted User 33526
Banned deucer.
2/5 They only really took Seattle and San Francisco, Xerograde was not active until after he won, jgiles wasn't even posting ahead of time, and you didn't even get top 2 at Birmingham, stop claiming people that have posted on this site barely ever and stop claiming people who don't even have an account.
Claiming people is some serious business! We accept everyone as Smogon users as long as they regularly use the site. It's not a contest to see who can "claim" the winner. If they don't want to be associated with the site, that's a different matter, but I'd rather be including. No matter how often you post on Smogon, people want to say hi and talk during the events!
Unless of course you're a total douchebag.
Unless of course you're a total douchebag.
Okay Jayque, thanks for posting that. However, bear with me while I ask about a couple hypothetical situations:
1. How exactly do you handle Fake Out? I can prevent you from getting up TR the first turn, which really hurts as that leaves either Solrock or Hippowdon (or, if Surf or Water Spout is used, both) wide open for an attack. Assuming Solrock is hit, your passho berry means very little as I can just finish you the next turn. Even if you protect, many of the popular water moves are multi-target and Hippowdon will die, and with Solrock, you just delay death by a turn.
2. What if I pack two pokemon with super effective moves? Let's say I ran Kyogre+Ludicolo. How would you stop a double surf? Grass Knot is also a common move and hits your entire team very hard, especially considering most of your pokemon are heavy.
1. How exactly do you handle Fake Out? I can prevent you from getting up TR the first turn, which really hurts as that leaves either Solrock or Hippowdon (or, if Surf or Water Spout is used, both) wide open for an attack. Assuming Solrock is hit, your passho berry means very little as I can just finish you the next turn. Even if you protect, many of the popular water moves are multi-target and Hippowdon will die, and with Solrock, you just delay death by a turn.
2. What if I pack two pokemon with super effective moves? Let's say I ran Kyogre+Ludicolo. How would you stop a double surf? Grass Knot is also a common move and hits your entire team very hard, especially considering most of your pokemon are heavy.
mattj
blatant Nintendo fanboy
Props bro!!
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