Usage-Based Tier Update for January 2018 (Mar Changes @696)

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Presumably because all the low ladder players probably just look at Jolteon's stats and see they're way higher than Galva, so it must be a better one. That's noob traps for you.
Since when did noobs look at stats?
By the way, why does OU never have any noob traps? I guess Skarmory gets pretty close, so why does nobody ever complain about noobs not letting Skarmory drop?
 
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Since when did noobs look at stats?
By the way, why does OU never have any noob traps? I guess Skarmory gets pretty close, so why does nobody ever complain about noobs not letting Skarmory drop?
Depends on what you see as "noobtrap". Skarmory is a pretty good mon, although it faces heavy competition (pun intended) from Celesteela, and when you use Skarmory you should always consider Celesteela first. Skarmory does fit better on some teams and fits some roles better (particularly hazard setting roles and pure physical walling) but a lot of noobs dedicate roles to it that are done much better by Steela. Really. I've seen people use Assault Vest Skarmory.

So even though a large part of its usage comes from noobs, it likely will not drop. I wonder what a drop of it to UU would cause there though; the meta would go crazy since their best attackers (Scizor, almost every Gliscor and Mamo when that drops again) are hopelessly walled by that thing.
 
Since when did noobs look at stats?
By the way, why does OU never have any noob traps? I guess Skarmory gets pretty close, so why does nobody ever complain about noobs not letting Skarmory drop?
OU had a huge noob trap in Trevenant back in Gen 6. I have no idea why that thing stayed OU for as long as it did.


Also, SD Weak Armour Skarmory is a fun meme set that I whip out on occasion :P
 
OU had a huge noob trap in Trevenant back in Gen 6. I have no idea why that thing stayed OU for as long as it did.


Also, SD Weak Armour Skarmory is a fun meme set that I whip out on occasion :P
Donphan was OU in Gen 5 and had more usage than Keldeo and KyuB. And it was even worse than it was today, as Knock Off still only had 20 BP. Meanwhile, Sandslash was RU, doing what Donphan is doing there now.
 
In UU and below the upper and lower ladders can be so different that it affects the viability of Pokemon. Seismitoad does better than Swampert against Arcanine, a Pokemon that's 5x more common on the 1000 ladder than the 1760 ladder.
 
In UU and below the upper and lower ladders can be so different that it affects the viability of Pokemon. Seismitoad does better than Swampert against Arcanine, a Pokemon that's 5x more common on the 1000 ladder than the 1760 ladder.
While your argument about low-ladder UU having much more Arcanine than the high-ladder is valid (then again low-ladder is the reason Ambipom doesn't even fall below 4% usage), exactly how does Seismitoad fare better against Arcanine than Swampert? Unless Arca runs HP Water or something, Swampert stays the overall superior choice.
 
Same reason Ambipom hasn't dropped yet: noobtrap. The only thing Seismutoad can do semi-decently is counter other bulky waters (until Toxic ruins it) because other than that, it's largely a worse Swampert. It has a niche, but it's very small. And remember, even Parasect has a niche if you look good enough.
Toad has refresh to keep itself healthy from status, it can just forgo EQ to fit it.
 

david0895

Mercy Main Btw
is a Pre-Contributor
Why are you always saying that the low ladder is the major cause if something doesn't drop?
iirc, usage stats are based on what players at 1630/1695 use
 
Why are you always saying that the low ladder is the major cause if something doesn't drop?
iirc, usage stats are based on what players at 1630/1695 use
I think (beware: THINK) players at those ratings just get more weight in the usage stats, but low-ladder still contributes SOMETHING. You aren't going to say me the 1630-1695s of RU kept using a mon as horrible as Blastoise for almost a year.

Also, didn't OU have some like that? Iirc, OU has its weight a little higher than the other tiers. Or something. I don't really remember, but it had something different.
 
the stats are in fact weighted. and it's >1630 glicko, not elo. you usually reach that much glicko around the time you hit ~1200 elo. that being said, the usage stats from a bit higher on the ladder (1760 glicko) also hurts to read. bad mons such as jolteon, ribombee, machamp and donphan are all used enough to stay in the tier on high ladder, and niche mons such as golisopod and rotom heat have a shitton of usage fsr. doublade also happens to still be top ten in usage on high ladder, which is weird considering its huge drop in viability over the last 3 months or so. sadly, ladder usage does not represent actual viability, as the ladder is simply not that competetive. oh and btw, galv is not a good mon. the only reason it is not deemed unviable is because it is arguably the best suicide webs setter. however, suicide webs strains the line of building a lot, forcing you to run taunt spam+a ghost to sack vs m-stoise, whereas araq can set webs several times during a game on top of being harder to switch into, and thus it is outclassed by araq at least 9/10 times.
 
the stats are in fact weighted. and it's >1630 glicko, not elo. you usually reach that much glicko around the time you hit ~1200 elo. that being said, the usage stats from a bit higher on the ladder (1760 glicko) also hurts to read. bad mons such as jolteon, ribombee, machamp and donphan are all used enough to stay in the tier on high ladder, and niche mons such as golisopod and rotom heat have a shitton of usage fsr. doublade also happens to still be top ten in usage on high ladder, which is weird considering its huge drop in viability over the last 3 months or so. sadly, ladder usage does not represent actual viability, as the ladder is simply not that competetive. oh and btw, galv is not a good mon. the only reason it is not deemed unviable is because it is arguably the best suicide webs setter. however, suicide webs strains the line of building a lot, forcing you to run taunt spam+a ghost to sack vs m-stoise, whereas araq can set webs several times during a game on top of being harder to switch into, and thus it is outclassed by araq at least 9/10 times.
The reason niche mons are so common in high ladder is because it’s high ladder. There’s only a handful of players up there, so one good player running Rotom-H can really mess with the numbers.
 
oh and btw, galv is not a good mon. the only reason it is not deemed unviable is because it is arguably the best suicide webs setter. however, suicide webs strains the line of building a lot, forcing you to run taunt spam+a ghost to sack vs m-stoise, whereas araq can set webs several times during a game on top of being harder to switch into, and thus it is outclassed by araq at least 9/10 times.
Wasn't necessarily saying Galv was a great mon, just that it was better than Jolteon. At least it has a niche, albeit a small one; Jolteon's "niche" is terrible.
 
Going through your UU teams and replacing all your Mamoswines with Kyurems isn't that hard. Besides, with therian Landorus consistently getting 49%-50% usage in OU, Mamoswine was going to rise anyway.
It went from 1.2% to 4.6%. Lando has been at 40% or better since March. If Mamo was a good choice to run in a Lando meta, Mamo wouldn’t have needed a YouTubed manipulating the stats in order to rise.
 
Going through your UU teams and replacing all your Mamoswines with Kyurems isn't that hard. Besides, with therian Landorus consistently getting 49%-50% usage in OU, Mamoswine was going to rise anyway.
Kyurem misses some crucial things that Mamoswine has, most notably access to Ice Shard to pick off faster threats like Latias. Lando being common isn't a reason Mamoswine should rise since the metas top threats already handle it pretty well; if you habe to dedicate an entire teamslot to beat it then you have to take another look at your team, since it's pretty hard to make a good OU team that can't beat Lando, consodering its exploitable weaknesses (Ice weakness, mediocre speed, bad special bulk). If you want an Ice-type that can break it, go with Kyurem-B; it outspeeds Lando, Mamo doesn't. If you want Ice Shard, go with Weavile. At least Weavile isn't as easy to force out because of its amazing speed tier.
 
Just for those that are curious, I did some research with a usage statistic bot based on 1695 stas using this command: .usage1695 (name of pokemon), OU:

Those are the results for the mons in the bottom of the OU usage stats:

Hoopa-Unbound #47 in OU | Usage: 4.10601% | Raw count: 83,828 | Weight: 0.104944617978
Rotom-Wash #48 in OU | Usage: 4.08117% | Raw count: 248,546 | Weight: 0.035817439913
Jirachi #49 in OU | Usage: 4.05364% | Raw count: 101,766 | Weight: 0.0866225935727

Bisharp #50 in OU | Usage: 3.95459% | Raw count: 180,607 | Weight: 0.0470053771013
Alakazam-Mega #51 in OU | Usage: 3.94398% | Raw count: 171,127 | Weight: 0.0497371381524
Amoonguss #52 in OU | Usage: 3.05614% | Raw count: 59,745 | Weight: 0.111314011321

Latias-Mega #53 in OU | Usage: 3.01649% | Raw count: 39,394 | Weight: 0.166647551627
Gliscor #54 in OU | Usage: 2.94700% | Raw count: 177,814 | Weight: 0.035403743507
 
Rotom-Wash #48 in OU | Usage: 4.08117% | Raw count: 248,546 | Weight: 0.035817439913
I find it ironic that after Rotom-W got banned from UU, its barely getting any usage and pretty much irrelevant in the current meta since Toxapex is so much of a better bulky water type mon.
Toxapex.gif
 
I find it ironic that after Rotom-W got banned from UU, its barely getting any usage and pretty much irrelevant in the current meta since Toxapex is so much of a better bulky water type mon.
View attachment 105759
RotomW was never banned from UU, it naturally rose up. People don't really use it as a bulky water but as a bulky VoltTurn pivot. And what do you mean barely any usage, it has enough usage to be OU. Mons that actually got banned from UU and barely get any usage are Diggersby, Staraptor and Conkeldurr (Mega Slowbro to an extent but they're retesting that).

Irrelevant in the current meta? You realize it has the same rank on the VR as your beloved Mega Charizard X and other titans like Latios?
 
Rotom usage.png

Its a bulky pivot but still. It has enough usage for OU but now I barely even see it.
Also sort of irrelevant due to the usage, still a good rank for ZardX and Latios along with Gastro but not commonly used.
 
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