Resource USM LC Viability Rankings (VR Update @ #249)

jake

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to add to the above, gastly has been running shadow ball much less frequently in favor of other coverage, notably energy ball (for onix, mudbray, tirt) and psychic (for mienfoo, timburr, foongus). hidden power also consistently takes up a moveslot, and other options like thunderbolt, dazzling gleam (z-dazzling gleam), and sucker punch compete for the last spot. in a world where shadow ball is mostly just nice neutral coverage, gastlys have been flexing their movesets to maximize their effectiveness on any given team, and that means we think about dropping shadow ball for something more useful for that specific team. that's big ups for frillish, since it eats energy ball and thunderbolt way more comfortably than shadow ball. my favorite spread, max sdef, takes just over half from those on average and can recover stall for cursed body to force gastly out.

another calc that i find extremely valuable to advocate for frillish is this one:

236+ SpA Magnemite Volt Switch vs. 236 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Frillish: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 18)

he eats a modest 20 SpA super effective volt switch off of bj mag and recovers it off at almost no cost. that's amazing. frillish also beats foongus 1v1 if it has cursed body and foongus has already slept something; forcing out the premier water check in the tier is unreal for a water to do. he also actually checks non-hp grass clamperl, something that basically nothing else does (shit like staryu drops to a +2 surf).

the biggest argument against frillish is that it's tough to fit on a team. it doesn't exactly fit into one particular role, and as a slow-ish mon that prefers to not be knocked, it requires partners that are OK with this. that said, it has unreal bulk and wisp is really useful. its bulk is even workable post-knock, especially against physical attackers if it trades that knock for a burn.

B+ sounds good to me for sure
 
To be fair, foongus can probably just poison u as frillish and get a free switch into something. Also I'm surprised you guys didn't mention bunnelby, frillish is one of the few things that's an easy switch-in to it. The issue with frillish is its knock susceptibility, but it's put in good work against me firsthand so I know how powerful he can be. I'd lean more toward B on him, but imo B+ is fine too. A- seems like a stretch though, honestly.
 
I’ve been asking someone else to post because I’m lazy but I guess I’ll do it.

I think stuff with essentially 0 usage rn in B+ like larvesta and scraggy should move to B. They are pretty much never seen in tours (for good reason) and I don’t think they’re on the same level as other mons in B+. Snub is also pretty much never used over Spritzee these days so I wouldn’t mind seeing that in B either but I guess it still fills its niche.

I think bunnelby should easily be in A- at least. Snake has shown how dangerous the mon is, and meta trends really favor it in general. Quick attack obliterates common faster mons like wingull and the like. It’s good 16 speed tier allows it to outrun the more common than ever slowfoo, the majority of vullabies and of course the slow bulky mons that are everywhere. It’s damage output is obviously incredible (life orb is easily the best set). Other sets I came up with like agility protect (normalium return and eq) are also very dangerous, taking advantage of the threat of lo forcing switches to set up and be a very dangerous cleaner. I think the mon is easily A- at the moment (maybe even bottom of A but I can see how that’s a stretch).
 
I don't think it will be a great idea to rise Bunnelby in A- because of the high usage of steel type (like Pawn, ferro, or mag)
The steel types have never been so present as at this moment, some teams even cumulate two of them
Futhermore Bunnelby need strong core of Koff user to be efficient Like Grimer A or Mienfoo
 
Actually what hinders Bunnelby the most is Gastly being used more and more for its ability to break standard foo vull foon, Bunnelby can take care of steel types on switchins with Earthquake, the downside of Bunnelby is its frailty, and when you kniow that in LC there are lots of frail yet powerful attackers, priorities are definetly a thing and Bunnelby suffers from them alot. And ghost types recoming in, weak armor onix and steel types that can switch on return (be careful of EQ though) means Bunnelby can't spam Return like it wants to. And it also lacks speed with the LO set, or the ability to change moves with a Scarf.

Plus, it needs some support, to be efficient, yeah, Knock Off, trappers, etc to be effective.

But I can't say that this mon doesn't hit like a truck, its damage output is nice yeah, but it can be played around with gastly imo, and even meta archetype can beat it with priorities, it likes mienfoo being slow but remember that the same mon has Fake Out aka a strong priority.

Bunnelby should definetly be a threat you need to prepare to, though, and meta flavors tend to teams not preparing well enough to this, so I'm a bit mitigated about the A- rise.
 

Altariel von Sweep

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B -> B+ Agree

I agree on this nomination, but A- is a little of a stretch. While the only problem is that Frillish is hard to fit on a team, it has a lot going for it right now. Cursed Body is an amazing ability, and is a decent check to some special threats out there such as Wingull or Clamperl, being the onyl decent answer to the latter. Its STAB attacks are easy to spam and has a really absurd bulk (eats Volt Switch from Magnemite like nothing) to complement Cursed Body. On a personal take, this Pokémon fits better in bulky offensive builds coupled with Foongus, being able to disable Sludge Bomb for Foongus and let it win the mirror matchup. Therefore, the best assumption imo is that Frillish fits on decent defensive cores, mostly Fire-Water-Grass with Foongus/Ferroseed and Ponyta. Definitely a Pokemon that shouldn't go unnoticed.

B -> higher Agree

Again, I do agree on Bunnelby rising, but even so, A- is WAY too much for it to rise. Life Orb set is one big danger that puts an insane pressure on common builds. Doing an aside point from the nomination, Gastly isn't really good just because it can beat Mienfoo/Vullaby/Foongus/Onix with the appropiate coverage, in fact, there are a lot more of Pokémon that beat that core, even the core itself can beat it, meaning this task isn't really remarkable.

Going on topic, Bunnelby hits like a truck, there aren't many Pokémon that can switch into it comfortably, and Quick Attack is really great priority that can pick up kills at some earlier point against the likes of weakened Timburr. However, it needs a mean to beat Pawniard and Timburr before being able to enter the field, as well as Pursuit support to get rid of Gastly, which can easily manage it. Nevertheless, it's not too much support, which means that Bunnelby is really decent, according to the results in Snake. If I were to give it a higher rank, it should be B+.

Now, onto the discovery of Z-Me First Mienfoo by our friendly staff member Serene's Grace, it has become a threat that cannot be easily detected due to Mienfoo's wide array of sets, being able to win in Turn 2 (the result depends on the matchup its team has) once it has stacked both SD and Z-Me First boosts to pass them to containers such as Mudbray, Snubbull, Overcoat Vullaby, Rufflet... Even so, physically offensive containers are not the only Pokémon that can take advantage of said boosts: even special Pokémon such as Nasty Plot Spritzee take advantage of it. Even if Mienfoo isn't able to stack Attack boosts along with the +2 Speed, those Pokémon keep being really threatening once they have the boosts. This set, as Serene's Grace mentions in the Metagame Discussion, has seen success in high level play in Snake and in the recent LPL, and has a wide array of teammates to use it with. This said, here goes the second part of the post:

B+ -> B Disagree

Snubbull has become a really good container for Z-Me First Mienfoo teams, making use of its defensive traits and reinventing itself by using its Bulk Up set. With Mienfoo boosts from Baton Pass and that, you get a very hard Pokémon to deal with and that can choose its coverage to beat Ferroseed and Foongus with Fire Punch, or Pawniard and Magnemite with Earthquake. A +2 Attack Snubbull is really beastly, being able to OHKO most threats with only Play Rough. If it has wated Berry Juice, worry not, as it will steal your potential Eviolite or Berry Juice to get bulkier and harder to stop/replenish again.

And now, time for a nomination of my own.

B -> B+

BU Roost Rufflet is really good with Z-Me First Mienfoo Speed boosts, and 25/21/21 bulk is really insane for a container, as it means that special threats such as Abra aren't able to OHKO it, and that it will constantly heal itself. Bulk Up coupled to this makes it stupidly bulky, to the point that not even Flying-type checks such as Onix and Tirtouga can beat it properly, potentially 6-0ing the opposing team. Aerial Ace + Superpower coverage hits nearly everything bar Honedge, and the metagame trends really benefit it to rise in my honest opinion.

edit: terrible mistake, bunnelby does not learn SD, though i keep up my nom
 
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dcae

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I've had a few discussions about this but I would like to bring up Grimer-Alola as a candidate to dropping to B+. Even in the current meta, which favors gastbra a lot, agrime is not in most ppls building plans bc its a mon that is very easily trapped by 2 of the more popular mons in the meta while also providing almost no defensive use outside of checking Gastly and Abra. Furthermore, offensively it is limited by the near ubiquity of Mienfoo/Onix/Mudbray (most teams have 1 of these 3 on them) and as a result it can easily be switched into and forced out. Would like to see discussion on this. Corporal Levi
 
Grimer-Alola, I loved you though..

Grimer-Alola's ability to counter GasBra cores without needing something to sac, as well as being a stop to poison types like Mareanie and Foongus whom it's able to absorb the sleep from, and to the spritz which is forced out by the Grimer which can just knock the switchin lol, a good ability in Poison Touch (or not it depends if the Grim is yours or not e_e) which has chance to poison switchins like Mienfoo, Onix and Mudbray (the 3 best switchins to this thing) on a knock off which is fucking mindblowing, and it also has access to support moves such as Memento, etc, I've even seen one with Giga Drain to bop Onix lol but don't do this kids, fuck it even spots the legendary tool knock off. What could've possibly gone wrong ?

Grimer-Alola's predictability and susceptibility to ground-type trappers such as Trapinch and Diglett (not that it isn't that they are the only ones), the first able to switch in Grimer, and the second, to revenge a pursuited mon or imo just doubled as its very satisifying (a legend says that it's more addictive than drugs) are just enough to invalidate it from the game, forces risky plays in order to keep your wall to the GasBra core able to check them, as teams that use it as their dedicated GasBra stop doesn't appreciate losing it and it happens quite often. Grimer-Alola also suffers from its slowness, which means it's easily pivoted in and knocked by mons. Speaking of Knock, Grimer being a slow and bulky mon doesn't like at all being knocked, as its bulk or recovery will be gone and it will just become a slow, hopeless mon. And speaking of recovery cuz I like to do transitions, Grimer doesn't have any, or like doesn't have any other than BJ and rest. BJ is knocked because Grimer is slow, and sleep turns can be taken advantage of, even if Grimer has Sleep Talk but yea it's just random so.

A good mon to whom the meta isn't favorable rn, being outclassed in roles it perform and just overall being too slow to do its job well on most teams. Yeah, drop it, I can't see it being on the A's anymore.

What a cruel fate..
 
Skrelp unlisted->>>>>>>b

Skrelp with adaptability is a great wall breaker. Sure Skrelp Might be frail but give him a timid nature and it is great

Berry juice/ choice scarf/ eviolite

Scald/Surf

Sludge Bomb/ Sludge Wave

thunderbolt/ hp ice

dragon pulse
 

Merritt

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Skrelp unlisted->>>>>>>b

Skrelp with adaptability is a great wall breaker. Sure Skrelp Might be frail but give him a timid nature and it is great

Berry juice/ choice scarf/ eviolite

Scald/Surf

Sludge Bomb/ Sludge Wave

thunderbolt/ hp ice

dragon pulse
Hi, thanks for your nomination! As a quick note I encourage you to read the OP fully where it explains that nominations for unranked Pokemon require high level replays to support your nomination, as well as the section about not making basic/bad posts because this lacks a lot of detail. Generally speaking you want to explain why Skrelp is worth using in the context of the metagame, not provide a mediocre set and two sentences.

For an example of what a good post for an unranked Pokemon is, here is an example which aside from the overly generous suggested ranking is an excellent example of an in depth analysis of an unranked Pokemon: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usm-lc-viability-rankings-vr-update-163.3621440/post-7885199

I can give a quick explanation of why Skrelp is unranked however. In large part it's due to Diglett, as fitting Skrelp onto teams is difficult to justify when it is likely to be trapped and KOed. Skrelp is even unable to potentially mitigate this weakness with a Choice Scarf (which would create other issues for Skrelp around how its STABs are fairly easily walled) due to only hitting 13 Speed at max - 19 with a Choice Scarf. While it'd be potentially possible to use Skrelp despite this heavy flaw as there are obviously other Diglett-weak Pokemon ranked, Skrelp also offers minimal normal utility to teams. Its rather low Speed mean it's going to be taking hits very often and it frankly doesn't appreciate the climate in high level play, where bulky Pokemon who can take Skrelp hits like Vullaby or Foongus are on most teams and Pokemon like Onix, Pawniard, and Magnemite are fairly common sights. Skrelp frankly loses a lot of momentum and offers not particularly much to most teams. A vast majority of the time it's more worthwhile to use a different, either faster or stronger wallbreaker for teams which is why Skrelp is unranked.

Unranked doesn't mean unusable of course, it just means it doesn't have enough general viability to be put on the rankings.
 
Skrelp unlisted -> b : definetly not.

Skrelp might be appealing at a first glance, having a good double type, boasted by an ok bulk and offenses boosted by adaptability, but it's outclassed in both roles it wants to perform.

Offensive sets aren't fast enough to hit what they want to with adaptability boosted stabs, thus leaving it outclassed by the likes of Staryu (having greater coverage and superb speed, and having strenghtened offenses by analytic), Wingull (mama mia if anyone can find a switchin to this thing) and even other water tyoes like Chinchou being even not that great, but having the ability to pivot and act as an electric / wingull check. Fuck this it's so slow that scarf doesn't even hit 20 speed which is pretty dumb.

Defensive sets are completly outclassed by Mareanie which has better bulk and a better ability in regenerator which allow it to take repeated hits througout the match, a thing that Skrelp can't claim to do reliably.

Plus, Skrelp suffers from being slow and so pivoted in easily and knocked, and add to this the presence of mons such as Diglett which 100% traps it, magnemite being very present too, and the metagame which is fast or bulky and Skrelp doesn't fit neither in fast nor in bulky, while not being able to do real damage against teams even if it has adaptability, failing to damage good walls such as foongus efficiently.
 

Corporal Levi

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I don't think Bunnelby being A- is as far out there as it seems. The stars have really aligned for Bunnelby to be the strongest it has ever been, and likely will be for the remainder of gen 7.

There are three major trends that favour LO Bunnelby a lot right now:
a) The most prominent Stealth Rock user has cycled back from being Onix to Pawniard, but the associated metagame shifts, the main ones being fastfoo and hp fighting > fire, haven't caught up yet.
b) The most common faster Pokemon have become extremely frail; Wingull is generally used over Staryu, Snivy is scarfed as often as eviolite, anti-dig Digletts will usually be scarfed instead of eviolite, and so on. These frailer Pokemon are KOed by Quick Attack after some chip.
c) A lot of bulkier Pokemon like Spritzee and Vullaby are choosing to run Berry Juice over Eviolite, exchanging long-term sustain for preserving momentum, and leaving them in range of being OHKOed by Return. This trend is admittedly likely here to stay because our pool of available mons heavily favours offense.

LO Bunnelby's strengths haven't changed - it's a wall-breaker with extremely strong priority - and its usual weaknesses are still there, but the state of the metagame lets its strengths largely override its drawbacks. Return and Earthquake are more likely to actually KO or adequately weaken their targets in more scenarios, making them safer to use, so Bunnelby as a whole is less reliant on prediction. Quick Attack is a much more effective cleaning tool than in previous metagames, turning Bunnelby into a sweeper comparable to mons with higher Speed or a means to boost it. Scarf Bunnelby is much worse than LO right now because it doesn't abuse these trends in the same way, so I won't really consider it.

The amount of support needed for LO Bunnelby to pull its weight is really being overestimated here. Trappers for Steels aren't necessary when it can OHKO or 2HKO all of them with the correct move. Knock Off is helpful if Bunnelby wants to KO bulkier mons right away, but minimal chip is often enough for this, and there will be plenty of cases where Bunnelby can come in on a weakened enemy, guaranteeing a KO; I don't find that you have to knock more than usual for Bunnelby. As for Gastly, Pursuit users are fairly easy to come by, and this support is certainly less costly than comparably threatening mons.

There are several other Pokemon that have a similar degree of high risk-high reward to Bunnelby. When comparing them, we only really have to look at splashability because they're all almost identically consistent (they aren't) and rewarding (potential 6-0s), plus they have the same sort of niche: they fit onto teams that are already okay defensively and have the pivots to support a dedicated offensive mon, or on hyper offense that consists strictly of wall-breakers and cleaners. I don't think this will be the case in two months, but as it is, Bunnelby's advantages in its nearly unmatched immediate damage and powerful priority make it a strong choice on far more teams than Doduo or Elekid in B+, about the same number as or more teams than Carvanha in A-, and less teams than Gastly in mid A.

---

Anyways, dcae tagged me because I disagree with him and think Grimer should remain in A-. Abra and Gastly are annoying to prepare against for a lot of bulky offensive builds because they can break through softer checks with their power and, in the case of gastbra cores, pair well with each other, using their speed, coverage, and resistance to common priority to clean with impunity. This generally forces bulky offense to run at least 2 soft checks to be safe from them, 3 or 4 if the team has even a single Pokemon that lets them in for free (defensive Spritzee being the most common culprit). Having the weight of 2-3 soft checks in Grimer frees up your options by quite a lot; while it's unlikely that Grimer will be trapping more than one member of a gastbra core that's paired with Trapinch or Diglett, having to only deal with one of the two leaves more breathing room during the game, and makes using sets like defensive Spritzee/eviolite Snivy/LO Bunnelby much less costly. The chance of the gastbra user doubling to a trapper is there, but if they genuinely need Gastly or Abra in their game plan, Grimer's presence still discourages them from coming in. Grimer is generally a liability on hyper offense, because its trapping isn't as appreciated when other revenge-killers are available and its loss of momentum is more costly.

I don't think it's fair to say that Grimer is outclassed; it is surely still the best Pursuit trapper available when the role is genuinely needed. Diglett and Scarf Pawniard aren't reliable; Gastly survives Diglett's Pursuit if it simply stays in, and bulkier variants can do the same to Pawniard. Munchlax and bulky Stunky are even more severe in their loss of momentum, to a degree where Grimer should almost always be the first choice. Grimer is a fairly poor Pokemon in a vacuum, but I think that enough teams require its strengths to warrant an A- ranking.
 
rank skrelp. B- is not absurd to me but i can see c+ if youd like. the set to use is poison-z. good against covet spritzee in particular, and hydro + downpour kills foongus. downpour kills most things, actually. trapped but if you cant exploit traps learn to do that.

the correct position on grimer is a synthesis of the two. there's the "grimer is a mon of one use that it isnt that good at" (so it should drop) and the "grimer is the best abra-gast check (so it should stay). both are correct. the solution is something more enlightened users have been saying on this forum since 2015.
 
I am nominating that remoraid be ranked. With a wholly satisfactory speed tier and a diverse movepool, not limited to fire blast, rock blast, bullet seed, water spout, gunk shot, ice beam, and thunder wave, remoraid can satisfy many roles on a team. My favorite yet is a Z bounce lure. Arguing for the efficacy of a pokemon based on a set being unexpected is not entirely sound, but remoraid has such a diverse array of potential sets that it can lure nearly any pokemon in the tier. A physical hustle Z set may ohko a leader bulky foo, or a foongus switch in. Remoraid may run rock blast, securing a guaranteed ohko on berry juice vullaby sets should it land 3 hits. Bullet seed also easily breaks sturdy juice onixes. Fire blast ohkos ferroseed. Z gunk shot may be ran to KO an expected snivy switch-in, or to OHKO spritzee.
Consider a standard team. A Z bounce set gets a guaranteed kill on a leader bulky foo, or rock blast has a great chance at KOing a lead pivot vullaby. Bullet seed remoraid kos both weak armor or sturdy juice onix, or a rocks tirtouga. A mixed fire blast and gunk shot set can be run to dismantle the common ferrospritz core, and poison, fire, or flying coverage may be used to hit snivy on the expected switch-in.
252 Atk Hustle Remoraid Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 76 Def Vullaby: 24-30 (104.3 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
236 Atk Hustle Remoraid Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 26-32 (108.3 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
236 Atk Hustle Remoraid Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 26-32 (104 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Remoraid Fire Blast vs. 84 HP / 228 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 20-28 (90.9 - 127.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
I have found remoraid to be far from a gimmick, and am at the time of writing in the number 10 little cup spot due to its breaking potential of common little cup cores. I have found great success on the ladder utilizing this set, but remoraid may opt to run a life orb mixed set, or a Z move depending on what it needs to lure and secure KO's on.
Remoraid @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Hustle
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bounce
- Rock Blast
- Waterfall
- Bullet Seed

This replay does a fine job at representing remoraid's minimum efficacy, as even in situations where remoraid underperforms, it always secures a kill on lead onix or mienfoo.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-829115111
 
Remoraid's ability to go mixed and investing a maximum in SpA thanks to Hustle, as well as its good coverage make it pretty devastating for unprepared teams, and the bulkier nature of today's metagame rewards it. Plus, you have to scout all its coverage options to be sure you have a switch to this. But it's held back by an only-average speed tier, while scarfed sets can't make use of the great coverage Remoraid has. But yeah, it should be ranked imo, and the replay provided by mrnoodleoctopus (hello scrub buddy) succesfully has shown this.

Also, it's a fucking pistol-fish that evolves into a fucking tank-octopus, ain't that badass.
 
Not really the best poster but I believe Budew should rise to C+. It's definitely better than everything in C considering it stacks spikes while also being a snivy/foongus/fighting check. This is invaluable imo even if it has 4mss. (Personally believe it's better than a lot of things in B-)
 
Not really the best poster but I believe Budew should rise to C+. It's definitely better than everything in C considering it stacks spikes while also being a snivy/foongus/fighting check. This is invaluable imo even if it has 4mss. (Personally believe it's better than a lot of things in B-)
I agree with this and I will try to explain my reasons as I've been using a team with budew that I built to decent success and I think it can work depending on the build. Of course we all know Budew is worse than other poison/grass types such as Foongus because even though it has similar stats regenerator is just an amazing ability. That said I think our cute friend aka Budew can do multiple jobs at once wich is appreciated in more offensive builds, mainly setting spikes while checking the same mons that foongus checks. It's also faster than Foongus and a lot of bulky mons such as Spritzee, Timburr etc. A last and cool thing about it is that what usually would be a Foongus v Foongus war ends up with the same result if you change one Foongus for Budew (wich is one of the users switching and none of the Foongus dying) but with some spikes on the opposing field. For those resons I think it deserves a rise to B- (or at least C+)
 
Hello, I'd like to make a nomination.

I'd like to see Clamperl go to B+.

I think in the right scenarios, it can be a monster killer, utilizing Shell Smash and the Deep Sea Tooth. Those 2 together hit like a truck filled with dynamite (68 SpA. If that's not the highest single stat you can get with a mon in LC, that's one of the highest.). The only real reason Clamperl could be taken out is FakeOut/SuckerPunch spam, but personally, I run protect on my clamperl. Sure, there's higher Pokemon on the VR that can also shell smash (Tirtouga), but I primarily see Tirtouga used as a rocker and not a sweeper, which Ferroseed already does better. Unfortunately, I do not have any replays or calcs because my school blocked PS and the calc site. :psycry:
 
Clamperl isnt just weak to priority, it's difficult to setup and usually requires memento support unlike smashers like dwebble or tirt that use sturdyjuice or solid rock to setup. It is also dependent on deepseatooth, which while it makes it good, does not allow for an item like a sash, bj, or evio to aid it in setting up. It should stay where it is right now imo.
Hello, I'd like to make a nomination.

I'd like to see Clamperl go to B+.

I think in the right scenarios, it can be a monster killer, utilizing Shell Smash and the Deep Sea Tooth. Those 2 together hit like a truck filled with dynamite (68 SpA. If that's not the highest single stat you can get with a mon in LC, that's one of the highest.). The only real reason Clamperl could be taken out is FakeOut/SuckerPunch spam, but personally, I run protect on my clamperl. Sure, there's higher Pokemon on the VR that can also shell smash (Tirtouga), but I primarily see Tirtouga used as a rocker and not a sweeper, which Ferroseed already does better. Unfortunately, I do not have any replays or calcs because my school blocked PS and the calc site. :psycry:
 
Clamperl isnt just weak to priority, it's difficult to setup and usually requires memento support unlike smashers like dwebble or tirt that use sturdyjuice or solid rock to setup. It is also dependent on deepseatooth, which while it makes it good, does not allow for an item like a sash, bj, or evio to aid it in setting up. It should stay where it is right now imo.
Yeah, I pair it with memento, which makes it easier for me i guess lol
 
Hello, I'd like to make a nomination.

I'd like to see Clamperl go to B+.

I think in the right scenarios, it can be a monster killer, utilizing Shell Smash and the Deep Sea Tooth. Those 2 together hit like a truck filled with dynamite (68 SpA. If that's not the highest single stat you can get with a mon in LC, that's one of the highest.). The only real reason Clamperl could be taken out is FakeOut/SuckerPunch spam, but personally, I run protect on my clamperl. Sure, there's higher Pokemon on the VR that can also shell smash (Tirtouga), but I primarily see Tirtouga used as a rocker and not a sweeper, which Ferroseed already does better. Unfortunately, I do not have any replays or calcs because my school blocked PS and the calc site. :psycry:
Yeah, I pair it with memento, which makes it easier for me i guess lol
IMO you need to do more than this to justify a rise. Clamperl has already risen from C+ to B to go against a trend of B and C rankers dropping down and out of the rankings after the council raised the requirements for mons to be ranked. We already know that Clamperl is hella powerful, and it also has its downsides, like it's frailty and item dependence.

Realistically since this is currently on trend you need to compare to it to other mons in B+ and explain why it would hold its weight when put there. If this wasn't on trend, you'd need to explain why the current meta favours it. On this note, I don't think the Wingull ban affects it too much, negatively or positively so it should probably stay where it is for now.
 
I agree with this and I will try to explain my reasons as I've been using a team with budew that I built to decent success and I think it can work depending on the build. Of course we all know Budew is worse than other poison/grass types such as Foongus because even though it has similar stats regenerator is just an amazing ability. That said I think our cute friend aka Budew can do multiple jobs at once wich is appreciated in more offensive builds, mainly setting spikes while checking the same mons that foongus checks. It's also faster than Foongus and a lot of bulky mons such as Spritzee, Timburr etc. A last and cool thing about it is that what usually would be a Foongus v Foongus war ends up with the same result if you change one Foongus for Budew (wich is one of the users switching and none of the Foongus dying) but with some spikes on the opposing field. For those resons I think it deserves a rise to B- (or at least C+)
Let me add that Budew has Natural Cure to go for it, making it not only a great spore absorber in virtue of his typing, but a great overall status absorber that can even use the RestCure combination in order to have a more reliable recovery than Synthesis, to somewhat make up from not havin regenerator, plus, the ability to setup Spikes in a large amount of defensive threats such as Spritzee or Foongus, while RestCure-ing all the damage make it seem pretty nice. So, while it suffers from competition with Foongus, Budew still has things to go for it ; same for Chespin and Ferroseed as hazard setters ; the former only has synthesis' 8PP recovery to tank hits, while the latter is hit too much with Knock Off to even be able to recover with Berry Juice, whereas Budew, with RestCure has a reliable recovery. I told Howl about this and honestly, it seems better than only having synthesis' recovery whose PPs are prone to go low all the time. So yeah, Budew doesn't care switching on mons, sets his spikes layers, rests + switches out on a forced switch from the opponent to be woken up, and rinses and repeats.
 

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