USM NU Theorymons

[poh]

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Welcome to the NU Theorymon project!​

Much of this OP is taken from bb skarm 's version of the thread

Here, we will be discussing potential buffs (a new ability, a new move, or a new typing) on a Pokemon, and how it will positively impact its niche in the NU metagame.

The system will go as following: There will be a slate of 4-5 Pokemon that have been submitted from different users and handpicked by myself (except for the first slate, which are my own picks to get the project started). We will then discuss these "theorymons" for about 4-5 days, and then a voting period will commence, which last 3-4 days. After this period, the winning Pokemon will be put into our archive.

You may submit theorymons any time you want, but please try to keep it at a maximum of 1-2 submissions per post. When submitting a theorymon, please don't make it mindless like Aerilate Braviary. Make it actually be logical, and give it an actual use.

When discussing the slates, here is what you want to be looking at:

• How will this buff positively impact the Pokemon?
• How will this buff impact the entire NU Metagame?
• Is this buff outclassed by other Pokemon?
• Can this Pokemon now take on different roles?
  
  PLEASE follow these rules:
  
  
• Don’t suggest changes that make or may make a Pokemon broken
• Only theorymon ideas that bring positives to the NU metagame and have useful implications will be picked, which means no Huge Power on random Pokemon and other similar buffs.
• You can only add a secondary typing to Pokemon of one type, or change the second type of a dual-typed Pokemon.
• Those changes should at the very least not contradict flavor. They don’t have to fit a Pokemon’s flavor perfectly, but don’t suggest a secondary Fire-type for Grass-types for example.

For steering discussion: nominations are made primarily with the existing NU metagame in mind, not the developing theorymons metagame. You're free to discuss that too of course but make sure you're making it clear which metagame you're talking about when you make your post. Discussion about a theorymon on the current slate in the existing NU metagame is preferred. This is because the full theorymons meta is obviously less played and less competitive. If you want to talk about the theorymons metagame, then keep this discussion to threats already playable in the metagame.

And this is where I'll put our archive, AKA winning theorymons:

Archive

Week 1 winners
1. Blastoise + Shell Smash
2. Jumpluff + Huge Power

Week 2 winners
3. Lilligant + Earth Power
4. Palossand + Storm Drain

 

[poh]

First slate!!

+ Huge Power

+ Slack Off

+ Shell Smash

+ Levitate

+ Hurricane

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Theorymon is something I've been wanting for all of this gen, and now we finally have it! How splendid. Either way:

Huge Power Jumpluff: Huge Power is a great ability, but Jumpluff's typing isn't the best to put it lightly. It can use a Swords Dance + STAB + Sleep Powder set to great effect. One notable thing is its blistering speed and access to Infiltrator to hit stuff like SubBU Braviary. Sceptile definitely gives it competition due to better coverage and Speed, but thankfully due to STAB Acrobatics and Sleep Powder, it provides enough of a niche. This would be fun to use.

Slack Off Camerupt: With Slowbro being so prevalent, that Water weakness SUCKS. That being said, its typing is interesting defensively (it counters Delphox, Vikavolt, Heliolisk without Surf, Venusaur that don't run Earthquake etc), and that combined with Solid Rock makes its tanking prowess decent enough. Pair it with a Water-type counter/check on balance for the best results. I probably wouldn't use it though because of its weaknesses not only to Water but to Ground, the latter of which makes it a shaky check to mons it would otherwise handle perfectly such as Magmortar or Incineroar.

Shell Smash Blastoise: Move over Z-Celebrate Vaporeon, we have a new boosting Water-type sweeper in town! Blastoise's solid bulk and typing allow it set up quite easily, and HP Grass (or even Dark Pulse)/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam is solid coverage. It's much faster than Vaporeon, and compared to Omastar its defensive typing is better. It'd be our best Shell Smash user and special attacker Water-type for sure.

Levitate Klinklang: Makes an already good Pokemon even better, which is a no-no in my book, though I guess this is balanced out by being vulnerable to Intimidate? Won't vote for it though.

Hurricane Charizard: Z-Hold Hands Zard becomes better I suppose. Coming from the guy who won the STABmons tournament with Hold Hands Zard that set is definitely solid. It requires a hazard remover to function which sucks but being a Fire-type that beats Fighters while NOT being weak to Dark is great. (As you bypass Thick Fat Assault Vest Hariyama with newfound Hurricane access, which is huge since Pokemon like Delphox and Houndoom lose to it more often than not; With Focus Blast you also beat AV Incineroar and Miltank (I know Magmortar also beats those two but Mag's slower and is a wallbreaker instead of Charizard's set-up sweeper role))

Oh, and for future theorymons, Storm Drain Palossand and Water/Fairy Jellicent (because look at that female form and tell me that a Fairy-typing would make no sense).

 

[not tom hanks]

huge power jumpluff: it'd help it out but that makes absolutely zero sense on it. something like quiver dance might do better.
slack off camerupt: mixed feelings about this but overall i dont think it would benefit too much because of those weaknesses, seems more like a trick room tank. no experience with this though so i don't know.
shell smash blastoise: back to ru
levitate klinklang: immunity to ground moves and maintaining immunity to webs? intimidate sucks but that would make it a lot more powerful. S rank.
hurricane charizard: i dont see this being too amazing. z-celebrate having 2 70% accurate moves and an 80% accurate one looks like the recipe for many losses from rng. it just doesnt add too much to it i feel like.

tauros could use like +15 special attack

 

[SenorRojo227]

Huge Power Jumpluff: This ability boosts Jolly Jumpluff's attack to a well above average 418 Attack (Only 20 below Jolly Medicham). This boosted with Swords Dance + a base 110 Speed looks incredible on paper. However, its poor movepool greatly hinders its breaking power as it has to rely on acrobatics as its primary flying STAB with very little coverage options for the last few slots. I believe Jumpluff's niche lies in its ability to break midgame yet would still face competition with the likes of Sceptile, Scyther, and a few others.

Potential Sets:

Z Move Sweeper

Jumpluff @ Normalium Z / Grassium Z
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Seed Bomb
- Double-Edge / Sleep Powder
- Sleep Powder / Acrobatics
- Swords Dance

+2 252 Atk Huge Power Jumpluff Breakneck Blitz (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Druddigon: 372-438 (103.9 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Huge Power Jumpluff Breakneck Blitz (190 BP) vs. 240 HP / 172+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 316-372 (90 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Huge Power Jumpluff Bloom Doom (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 330-388 (93.2 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

Pivot

Jumpluff @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Seed Bomb
- Double-Edge / Return
- Aerial Ace
- U-turn

252 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Jumpluff Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Druddigon: 176-208 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Jumpluff Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 308-366 (78.1 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Jumpluff Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hariyama: 338-398 (68.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Slack Off Camerupt: Already a somewhat unorthodox check to numerous popular special wallbreakers such as Vikavolt, Whimsicott, and Heliosk lacking Surf, I believe that reliable recovery will help Camerupt further its niche. It will still likely remain inferior to most other rockers in the tier but its unique dual STAB will help teams maintain an offensive presence without fear of the camel being worn down too quickly.

Shell Smash Blastoise: Unlike other shell smashers within the tier, Blastoise is not weak to any form of priority and has reliable enough bulk and typing to tank hits even after setting up. The additional offensive boosts will set it apart from Z-Celebrate Vaporeon and with a maxed out speed of 540, it surpasses the range of most common revenge killers. It still struggles in breaking several SpDef checks depending on its moveset (i.e. Slowking without Dark Pulse, Type Null, Gastrodon, etc.) but it still has the tools to serve as a viable wincon with the right support.

Levitate Klinklang: An already excellent mon now removes several of its most reliable checks. But with it, the arising Intimidate Incineroar becomes a relatively safe offensive check, being able to survive any attack even after rocks with no defensive investments. I do see this as being a relatively more impactful change to the meta and may bring along with it new sets such as Smack Down Lix, granted Roar is still an option to avoid sweeps early/mid game.

Hurricane Charizard: Hurricane helps Charizard round off its coverage, yet still has difficulty breaking certain mons or cores depending on the set. Omniboosting and Sun Sweeper sets still lose the 1v1 vs popular SpDef checks like Magmortar and Slowking while Specs sets are pressured more by rocks. I could see more variety arising with sets like Z-Hurricane acting as a lure to the aforementioned mons as well as other checks such as Golbat and Altaria, however, I don't see this having a large impact on the meta as it is still easily pressured.

 

[SenorRojo227]

+ Analytic

+ Head Smash

 

[Fragmented]

Huge Power Jumpluff
A nice buff to its mediocre attack and an already decent speed tier actually makes Jumpluff kind of scary. Sleep Powder helps it nab set up opportunities and the combination of itemless Acrobatics and Seed Bomb dents a large majority of the metagame. However, it pretty much sucks against Steel types unless you run tech like Natural Gift Fire, but you lose a move slot for Seed Bomb or Sleep Powder I guess. Additionally, while base 110 is fast, faster threats like Whimsicott, Sneasel and Sceptile can revenge kill it easily. Overall, I like this theorymon.

+2 252 Atk Huge Power Jumpluff Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 252-297 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Huge Power Jumpluff Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 410-486 (104 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Slack Off Camerupt
Might make it a decent special tank for the Electrics and Grasses in the tier and maybe a decent check to like Klinklang, but its defenses are still kind of mediocre and its quite slow. Quad weakness to water isn't helpful as well with the prevalence of Slowbro in the tier.

Shell Smash Blastoise
Quite fitting style wise. Modest is sufficient to outspeed most of the metagame at +2 speed, leaving you only outsped by Scarf Tauros and Scarf Dodrio. It has the same Sp.Atk stat as Toxicroak, and we all know how hard that hits. Blastoise also has nice coverage in Dark Pulse, Ice Beam and Aura Sphere, although the former two are probably all that is required as coverage move in addition to Water STAB. Blastoise also has decent bulk, granting it several set up opportunties against passive mons and proceed to sweep your opponent. Cool addition to my favourite Gen 1 starter.

Levitate Klinklang
Saves a moveslot on Klinklang, allowing it to carry all the coverage that it wanted to have while leaving it vulnerable to the new Intimidate Incineroar as well as other stat drops. Although it can now set up easier on most Stealth Rockers, it still have trouble dispatching them. Steelix and Palossand can wear it down with Heavy Slam and Shadow Ball respectively, while the former also tends to carry Roar occasionally. Rhydon can learn Fire Punch if you so decide to carry it, while also being able to learn Dragon Tail and Roar. Piloswine is probably the only one who will have trouble with this mon, but you just switch out to something else that can better deal with it. Overall, a welcome addition to Klinklang, allowing it to set up much easier although it doesn't solve its primary problem of breaking bulkier mons.

Hurricane Zard
Nice pseudo-Moltres for the tier. Has the same problems as Moltres without access to U-turn, also has less bulk and power. Offensive Scarf and Specs are most likely the go to sets, although you can make it sort of bulky and function as a defogger as well. You wouldn't want to run Hurricane on Z-Sunny Day since it would only have 50% ACC. Z-Hurricane nukes most non-resists while Fire Blast helps to hit the Steel types that Z-Hurricane doesn't. It also has a semi-decent coverage option in Focus Blast to hit the likes of Rhydon and Piloswine harder. Its kind of cool I guess, but I doubt it would be much of a game changer for Zard.

Personal Slate:

+ 5 Speed
Just like a special attacking Emboar, just slightly slower

+ Knock Off
Would actually make this mon decent

 

[poh]

Voting time! Vote for your 2 favorite submissions!

+ Huge Power
+ Slack Off
+ Shell Smash

+ Levitate

+ Hurricane

 

[Fragmented]

Huge Power Jumpluff and Shell Smash Blastoise

 

[Abejas]

camerupt+blastoise

 

[Chokepic]

I vote for Shell Smash Blastoise and Levitate Klingklang

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Jumpluff + Blastoise

 

[ayedan]

Jumpluff + Blastoise

Would like to nominate Mega Audino with Regenerator as its ability. Would make this mon usable in higher tiers.

 

[not tom hanks]

no support of jumpluff because other 2 i support i like better, huge power's theme across pokemon is bonkers
support of camerupt because it makes the most sense
support of blastoise because it'd give it something good other than spinning and with the defense as the highest stat excuse, look no further than gorebyss's base stats as well as wartortle's and squirtle's
no support of klinklang because it doesnt need a buff, and is frequently seen on the ground unlike the magnemite line
no support of zard because to be viable it needs a bigger buff imo

 

[Joe Career]

• Blastoise + Shell Smash
• Camerupt + Slack Off

I'd also like to nominate Scrafty + Sucker Punch for the next slate.

 

[lolbro]

Rupt stoise

 

[MultiAmmiratore]

Jumpluff and blastoise

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Jumpluff and Camerupt.

Also my nominations:

Ampharos + Tail Glow. Makes it a brilliant breaker against slow teams, could also run Agility for a Double Dance set.
Bastiodon + Rock / Ghost typing, Recover and Solid Rock. Lets it finally use those epic defences.

 

[yogi]

JUMP and Charizard ig. holy fuck love that little fuzzball so fricking CUTE!

 

[poh]

The winners from this week were:

Blastoise + Shell Smash (9 votes)

Jumpluff + Huge Power (6 votes)

Camerupt just missed out this week with 5 votes


Good to see the discussion going guys keep it up!
Don't forget to submit your own suggestions!

New slate!

+ Earth Power

+ Sheer Force

+ 55 Base Special Attack

+ Storm Drain

Happy Posting! be sure to be civil, and discuss the possibilities in the change of viability of these four Pokemon.

 

[lolbro]

Ok so PoH is trolling and its tauros has base 55 not base 100 which just means that the tiny imrpovement of 10 base spa from 45 to 55 results in some small damage increases but nothing to really make it relevant

Lilligant+a way to beat fires/poisons/steels is something that has already been speculated and is hella good in theory so lol.

Idk how sf makes auro any better other than making ice beam the same power as refridgerate hvoice and having slightly stronger ep and ap. Honestly youd rather snow warning to cuck weather and hvoice does most of what youd want refridge for, but auro isnt a great breaker anyway. Idk could be good.

Giving a mon an immune is always cool, this mon with that ability would beat qwil and the slowbrothers(probably) and could help against non hex jelli(does that exist?). Would also beat non knock rott. Rocker+spinblocker+water check+fighting check+electric check+recovery all in one would make this mon super good

 

[ayedan]

Lilligant can beat steels now which is p good I guess. Also has a better time with magmortar if it switches in.

Sheer force isnt really anything to use over refridgerate or snow warning. Only thing it can do is boost earth power really. Just use snow warning/refridgerate instead.

Tauros would be much better and can abuse its special movepool and beat many physical walls too. The best set would probably be mixed and u can reliably run mixed now instead of fully psyhical. Big boost for tauros, maybe even too powerful.

Storm drain would make pallosand have many immunities like electric, fighting and water. Also makes it possibly the best rocker in the tier.

I nominate Mega Audino for Regenerator instead of Healer as its ability. Would make this mon actually good in other tiers and better in general.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Earth Power Lilligant: Lilligant this gen has a major problem of having bad coverage options and being outclassed by Sceptile, set-up variants of Venu, and Whimsicott. Earth Power fixes the former and somewhat of the latter, as Venu and Scep NEED to go mixed to beat Fires. EP Lilli doesn't need to, and Grass + Ground is good coverage for this tier, though you do lose the perks of hitting Grass-types neutrally. Lilli can now also beat Steelvally and Klinklang (you already could beat Steelix 1v1 but now you have a more reliable method), in addition to still hitting Garbodor. It still has plenty of issues (4MSS, the other Grass-types still have more immediate power, losing to other Grass-types and Golbat now), but I could see Lilligant being ranked if it got Earth Power.

Sheer Force Aurorus: Boosting its coverage moves is neat, but otherwise yeah if you want to use frozen dino here just use Snow Warning.

Tauros with 55 Special Attack: So you get slightly better chances of KOing Lix, and with Rocks up, have a pretty high chance of 2HKOing Slowbro, the latter of which is quite neat for a physical wallbreaker that isn't a Dark-type. However, I don't see much other perks. (Unless someone can tell me such perks)

Storm Drain Palossand: This is something I nominated, and this addition would make the Sandcastle one of the best tanks and Rocks setters in the tier, if not the best in the latter category due to the fact that you BEAT BULKY WATERS. I can not stress this enough. Being immune to Water by itself is good, but Palo can actually make use of the +1 special attack, as this allows it to 1v1 Bro and King, as well as having a fighting chance against Blastoise, which isn't that good in the tier (well, the defensive spinner at least, though it is B- right now), but otherwise beats the other rockers that would compete with Palo (Piloswine, Steelix, and Rhydon). Toxic is a bitch, but otherwise it wipes the floor with the Waters. Besides that, Palo counters Heliolisk, which when combined with the general role compression makes it great on balance and defensive teams (I know SpDef Venu and Maud beat Helio too but Palo provides that trait in addition to setting hazards and reliably checking Croak). Definitely my favorite choice.

I would like to nominate Thick Fat Torterra for the next slate. (This was a thing in last gen NU Theorymon but Torterra surprisingly doesn't completely suck this gen so.....)

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Lilligant + Earth Power

Gives it a nice way to hit Steel and Poison types, combined with Z Dream Eater it can do a lot of damage.

Tauros: 55 SpA

Honestly I don't think it'll change that much. 55 is still not very high, even with Sheer Force factored in. IMO giving it Swords Dance would've been better.

Sheer Force Aurorus

This is a notable buff, as while its won't make Ice Beam much stronger than a Refrigerate boosted Hyper Voice it will power up its coverage moves. It's still quite slow though.

Storm Drain Pallosand

4 immunities baby! I can see this being a staple Rock setter on stall teams, removing perhaps its most common weakness, and the special attack boosts are helpful as well.

My nominations:

Meganium + Fairy typing and Unaware. Fairy typing gives it some useful resistances, while Unaware finally gives it what it has always lacked: a niche.
Articuno + No Guard. Perfectly accurate Huricanes and Blizzards, but on the flip side Stone Edge will always hit you.

 

[poh]

Sorry for the confusion but what i meant was that Tauros now has a base stat of 55 Special Attack. So not 40 + 55.