Resource USUM AG Viability Rankings

Since I made a nom to rise goth, I would like to disagree with her dropping, idk anymore if she should rise, but I don't think she should drop because of the reasonings I used to nom her to rise.
Also in this post I have some opinions about some new mons like arceus rock to B.
beside my vivillon nom, I would like to make some more nominations:
arceus-water A- to B+, even that it can resist fire punches and set perish song against dusk mane, it doesn't seem as good as the others A- mons, celesteela and ferro can counter a lot of mons, arceus-dark can destroy stall/bulkier teams if magearna is gone, p-ogre is fucking scary with both physycal and special sets, being quite hard to use a switch in bar ferro, and e-killer can late game sweep really well even being less good nowdays;

gothitelle B+ to A-, this is ridiculous, can remove every bulky mon bar magearna, ttar and d-tail users, this means that using this+ any kind of sweeper is a easy win against balance teams, lately I've been using this and scarf ray and the results are amazing, other mons like xern and dusk mane can sweep way easier choosing the coverage you want to beat what you want and let goth trap what you can't beat.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-770252306
goth manage to trap 2 pokemon and could beat a-fairy too;
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-770254873
she avoid p-ogre from being stalled by a-fairy+skarm toxic duo

ttar and magearna B to B+, ok I just said why goth is op, so I think that this duo should rise because of how they can deal with huge problems for stall teams, magerna can volt switch out of traps and beat any kind of dark arceus and xern(this is helpfull for any playstyle), while giving hell bell support witch is nice because toxic is everywhere and some bulky mons like zygarde, groundon and ttar rely on rest as recovery. ttar on the other hand have the ability to trap trappers wich is fundamental for stall teams, not mutch things to say, it can set rocks and kill ray using shuca berry.

blissey B- to B, I don't remember if this was discussed already, but why chansey and blissey don't share the same rank? lower bulk for shed shell seems a fair trade, specially because the bulk diference isn't that big on the special side, and you need to have some good physycal walls on your stall teams, so ins't hard to cover that problem, but loosing your special wall to a trapper is a really big problem for stall teams.
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 195-229 (30.4 - 35.7%) -- 36.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Heavy Rain: 220-261 (30.8 - 36.5%) -- 63.8% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 294-348 (45.8 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 338-398 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO (both need confide to win)
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Harsh Sunshine: 229-271 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Harsh Sunshine: 262-310 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 135-159 (21 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 153-180 (21.4 - 25.2%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
+1 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 301-355 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 345-406 (48.3 - 56.8%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO


arcues flying/dragon/grass-> lower, uh, sorry but I don't think neither of them deserve their ranks, I know it's a little bit opinion based, but eletric seems better than they, i've seen some arceus-flying lately, but they never manage do do something relevant, maybe bait supportceus to help ray, but there is better forms of doing this.

lele-> C, I know it just droped but I try psychc spam and had good sucess with it don't think it is as niche as breloom and muk-a.


nagandel->higher, not sure about this nom, but it seems stronger than the rest(bar espeon,but it needs a hole team) with screens/memento/goth help it can set up and start to sweep, can KO/2KO almost everything with starndat set.

krookodile,mew->D, I think it make sense to rank them alongside eevee, even if eevee can be used on full baton pass chains, the old popular team still decent(only need something for marsh
 
Regarding other noms:
Vivillon B- to B+/B: Agree - This Pokemon is some broken ass shit if you don't think this Pokemon should move up you either a) Haven't abused this shit or b) haven't been abused by this shit. All jokes aside though as much as I despise this Pokemon it definitely deserves to move up.
Celesteela A- to B: Agree
Skarmory B+ to A-: Agree
Necrozma Ultra A to A+: Disagree
Lunala B to B+: Agree
Gothitelle B+ to B: Agree
Scolipede D to C: Agree
Arceus A- to A: Agree
Naganadel D to C-: Agree
Slurpuff UR to D: Agree - I've seen quite a lot of people disagree with this but honestly I think a web setter than can beat Mega Sableye and not be stopped by taunt deserves a rank.
Shaymin - Sky UR to C: Disagree - C is definitely too far of a jump, and I think bdov nommed this for D already and it got rejected so I don't see any changes here, end of the day is a pretty weak mon and Z celebrate has not been enough to save it.

I think the point of the matter is that rock is just not a good type to use in AG. There are no other viable Rock types in AG, barring Solrock if you want to be really out there.
When your Tyranitar nom was so long ago it doesnt even get mentioned and even totally forgotten as AGs most viable Rocktype lmao.

Sharing the opinions on changes execpt on Ultra-Necrozma where I am a little bit torn so I am not sure whether or not it should move up or stay where it is. Using Skymin you are basically relying on 60% chances everytime as most Mons only need one turn to either ko or cripple it and I would rather use Hypno-Gar in that regard. Nonetheless I could see it at D rank as it still has a good speedtier, hax potential and healing wish in its repertoire.
Agreeing with Rockceus too as it just doenst have much going for it rn.
Giratina can also Defog against almost everything on Webs that doesnt have Taunt/Explosion/ is Vivilion.
Excadrill is also a decent lead against others (bar Cloyster) being the best Rapid Spinner in the Tier followed by Cloyster and Pheromosa.
One thing I definitly want to see is Celesteela dropping as it might be still annoying to some teams but its flat out no A material at this point with alot of things (especially Sub Sweepers) setting up on it or not caring about it much + Leech Seed alone is not reliable recovery as one might have seen with Ferrothorn the supposed Kyogre check still getting threatened by waterspout / CM Ogre.
 
I've been very on and off playing AG but I thought I should make this post.

TAPU BULU TO D(id like c but everyone would disagree so ye)

Tapu bulu is able to deal with some really threatening pokemon.

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers/Shed Shell
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Horn Leech
- Protect
- Whirlwind

This deals with the 2 pokemon I hate the most. Arceus-Dark and DD Zygarde-complete. Zesty built a heat team and gave it to someone else I looked at the team and it was flames. I played a few ladder games and found out that bulu was a really great stop to pokemon. The set is meant to be able to whirlwind out big threats. With grassy terrain and leftovers and leech it recovers a considerable amount. There is one problem with this pokemon Mega Gengar. It traps it and it is THE MOST FOUND POKEMON IN CORES WITH ARCEUS-DARK AND ZYGARDE-COMPLETE. With the use of Shed Shell it is capable of switching out and letting you work miracles. This battle shows that Tapu Bulu was able to deal with threats to my team https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-786470029 Terrain also helps you heal pokemon that need it. Also with a great base 130 attack and gterrain it is able to do respectable damage. Ray also gives it problems but it is able to weaken its eqs and if it leeches on the switch heal up your switch in well. Although if predicting ray you could just double, this allows you to be safer against the pokemon in front of you. Although this pokemon can be almost dead weight in some match upsatleastyou have a sack it preforms great in others. I cansee this being in a low rank.


Edit: This pokemon has a niche over arceus fairy also. It can have shed shell or better recovery with all of the healing ti gets. I would also like to say it can heal up your own team with seeds terrain. Its type is different, is immune to spore. also beats more than the 2 i mentioned like sd arc ground and more.
 
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Megazard

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PU Leader
We were waiting for OMPL stuff to finish to do this, and finals is close enough right? Pigeons couldn't vote this time, and with 6 people we went 50/50 on some stuff. Those nominations won't go through, but we'll talk more about them, vote on them next time, and would not mind seeing more opinions in the thread

Arceus A- to A
Celesteela A- to B+
Lunala B to B+
Vivillon B- to B+
Tyranitar B to B+
Gothitelle B+ to B
Quagsire C to D
Naganadel D to C
Gliscor Unranked to D
Pheromosa Unranked to D
Krookodile Unranked to D
Slurpuff Unranked to D
Klefki Unranked to D
Yveltal A to A+
Arceus-Water A- to B+
Magearna B to B+
Blissey B- to B
Arceus-Flying B- to C
Arceus-Grass C to D
Tapu Lele D to C
Marshadow A to lower
Shaymin-Sky Unranked to D/C
Arceus-Rock B+ to B
Excadrill B- to B
Tapu Bulu Unranked to D

Noms we went 50/50 on:
Arceus-Dragon C to D
Skarmory B+ to A-
Necrozma-Ultra A to A+
Scolipede D to C
Giratina B to B+

Most of the stuff that went through shouldn't be surprising if you've watched OMPL: Arceus, Vivillon, Lunala, Tyranitar and Naganadel have all had great appearances, Celesteela and Gothitelle are falling off, and nobody uses Quagsire. The unranked stuff is probably something most of you have seen being used by one player or another; Slurpuff and Krook are usable leads, Klefki still does hazard control and status spreading, and Gliscor and Pheromosa are well explained if you read Thimo's post. As for what we didn't like, it mostly has to do with people perceiving meta trends the council didn't agree with. Pokemon like Waterceus and Marshadow are still good enough to keep their ranks, niche pokemon like Lele and Excadrill don't really deserve a rise, and most of it should be fairly backed up by how OMPL has gone (although obviously that isn't everything). One last thing, my fellow council members convinced me to try the same process PU uses for their VR updates which involves voting on a google sheet. The downside is you can't see who voted for what, but the upside is there are clear graphs of how close your nomination was to going through. You can check that out here, just click the link on that page.
 
Other:
(Solid) (Geomancy)
(Rock Polish / Autotomize)
(Niche) (Quiver Dance)
(Nasty Plot)
(Hone Claws)
Id give vivillion Solid or whatever its name is. After one quiver dance this pokemon legit can win an entire game. It does suffer from weaknesses to rocks and being frail but it legit just sets up and sweeps. Also missing twice is unfort. nothing more to say. Everyone has seen this monster.
 


Offensive Cores
Gengar-Mega + Zygarde-Complete
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane + Zygarde-Complete
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane + Rayquaza-Mega + Xerneas
Arceus-Fairy + Gengar-Mega + Marshadow
Deoxys-Attack + Tapu Lele

Balanced Cores
Arceus-Water + Groudon-Primal + Ho-Oh
Giratina-Origin + Groudon-Primal + Magearna

Defensive Cores
Arceus-Ground + Ferrothorn + Ho-Oh
Arceus-Fairy + Ferrothorn + Zygarde-Complete
Chansey + Skarmory + Tyranitar

I'm working on this!​
In terms of the core compedium, I think a few cores that could be added are:

Defensive Cores:
Ho-Oh + Giratina
Lugia + Tyranitar
Blissey + Ferrothorn
Arceus-Water + Zygarde-Complete

Balance Cores:
Mega Gengar + Primal Kyogre + Primal Groudon
Mega Gengar + Arceus-Dark + Arceus-Fairy
Dusk Mane + Primal Groudon
Ho-Oh + Arceus-Dark
Arceus-Rock + Celesteela

Offensive Cores:
Excadrill + Vivillon
Yveltal + Lunala
Xerneas + Yveltal + Arceus-Steel

idk if the role compedium is still being updated but these are just some cores that come to mind when I think about USM AG.
 
oh hi i'm back with some more noms that no one likes :D (yay i stopped procrastinating i feel accomplished)

anyways,
Kartana to D
I believe this guy has been slept on, but it's so good as a cleaner. People have been talking about how Naganadel is threatening, but on webs, this thing is ten times more scary than anything else I've seen... and yes, that includes accepted good Pokémon like Ultra Necrozma, Mega Rayquaza, and the like.
Why?

Kartana's access to Beast Boost (which equates to a slightly nerfed Moxie, as you can't get it with passive damage) means that it will snowball like nothing else in the tier can, and its 181 base Attack stat and free choice of an item (most notably Z-moves, but a Life Orb or Choice Band could work too) means that it can get those first few kills easily most of the time. It also has access to great coverage moves in Knock Off and Sacred Sword and also a good secondary STAB move in Smart Strike. Grass isn't such a terrible STAB typing; it hits most common Arceus Formes for at least neutral or Super Effective damage and many of its resistances are weak to one of Kartana's coverage moves. It also has surprisingly good Physical Defense (its base HP and Defense are almost as good as Skarmory's, a defensive wall) and Grass/Steel is a pretty good typing, which means that it can easily live most priority. It also has a pretty nice resistance to Extreme Speed and a neutrality to Shadow Sneak.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790330446 (Kart sweeps)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-789526888 (Kart sweeps again)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790671099 (Kart sweeps a third time)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790752713 (Kart sweeps again... yaaaawn)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790331814 (Kart finishes mRay, kills Groundceus, and softens up my opponents Groudon, allowing my own Groudon to finish the job)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-789528029 (Kart removes the Defogger and Gengar)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790758767 (Kart sets up on Yveltal and gets rid of mRay, causing forfeit)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790747436 (And have a last Kartana sweep because why not)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790773386 (Kart causes forfeit as soon as it's out lmao)

Also Aerodactyl could probably go to D because it does the same thing as Excadrill but it's faster but I'm too lazy to actually write out a nom for that :/
 
As this thread hasn't been touched in two weeks, I would like to make a nom in the role compendium, even though I'm literal trash at AG:

Sticky Web:
(Solid)
Alongside Smeargle and Shuckle, I would like to add Slurpuff and Ribombee as niche pokemon. Both of these pokemon have a niche that makes them not completely outclassed. Other than setting webs, Slurpuff can also work against opposing Smeargle leads by using Magic Coat, and thanks to its ability Unburden it can usually use Yawn to force a switch on the opponent's side too. Ribombee, on the other hand, has an amazing ability in Sweet Veil which prevents the whole team from falling asleep. In addition, its good speed tier means that it can also set screens in addition to webs, making it an excellent partner for setup sweepers. As such, I think these two pokemon are worthy of being niche webs setters.

Once again, I'm literal trash at AG so feel free to correct me.
 
As this thread hasn't been touched in two weeks, I would like to make a nom in the role compendium, even though I'm literal trash at AG:



Alongside Smeargle and Shuckle, I would like to add Slurpuff and Ribombee as niche pokemon. Both of these pokemon have a niche that makes them not completely outclassed. Other than setting webs, Slurpuff can also work against opposing Smeargle leads by using Magic Coat, and thanks to its ability Unburden it can usually use Yawn to force a switch on the opponent's side too. Ribombee, on the other hand, has an amazing ability in Sweet Veil which prevents the whole team from falling asleep. In addition, its good speed tier means that it can also set screens in addition to webs, making it an excellent partner for setup sweepers. As such, I think these two pokemon are worthy of being niche webs setters.

Once again, I'm literal trash at AG so feel free to correct me.
I think slurpuff deserves being on the vr more than ribombee. For one slurpuff does a better job in ag than ribombee. Ribombee is more useful in ou where it can withstand mega lopunny's fake out into return. Sweet veil doesnt do anything but prevent ribombee from falling asleep not the whole team, that only applies to its partner in doubles. Its speed tier, although faster than arcs and mega ray still leaves much to be desired since it can fall victim to taunt from mgar. Stun spore is nice tho but its bad accuracy makes not good enough to be the only reason to run ribombee. Now slurpuff on the other hand has magic coat, which protects it from sleep, although it takes some slight prediction. It also has the ability to prevent taunt and with sash into unburden it can outspeed mgar and others to set up webs. Furthermore with yawn it has the potential to cripple a mon and potentially take it out for the whole game, since ho is very fast paced. Ribombee is way too overshadowed by other webs users, but slurpuff still has a little niche and is better than shuckle for sticky web imo due to the advent of dusk mane. However, sticky web as a whole is not used a lot at least from what ive seen in high ladder games and tours, and other ho archetypes like screens and excadrill have taken over. At least thats based on my limited knowledge of ag tour games currently but its just what ive seen.
 

DoW

formally Death on Wings
is a Pre-Contributor
I think it's also worth noting that Slurpuff (at least somewhat) has an offensive presence thanks to Endeavor, which couples nicely with Focus Sash and Unburden. This means that any non-ghost that simply tries to attack it will often end up on 1hp, with webs up. It also means that setup sweepers are in danger of being left as priority fodder if they can't predict around the 8pp.

This makes the pokemon far more difficult to handle if your game plan is to just KO the suicide lead and then either remove the webs later or play despite them - you still end up effectively losing a pokemon, as well as having to play around being slow for a while. I would say that for bulkier teams, that are less in danger from webs than other archetypes, this can be far harder to deal with than a pokemon being asleep or nuzzled - hence an actual reason to consider Slurpuff over Smeargle.
 
Some points about Ribombee that I would like to raise:

While everyone has been talking about Sweet Veil on it, you are forgetting that it also has another amazing ability in Shield Dust, notably preventing flinches + Nuzzle paralysis. This is especially nice against Mega Sableye because most people don't seem to know what Shield Dust does, so they try to Fake Out and bam, Sableye has no health left.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-799467803 (Replay of Shield Dust being the GOAT, though against mMedi, but it'll probably work about the same for mSab)

Also, Ribombee is faster than Arceus, which is great if Webs have been defogged for setting them again. Good matchups against Arceus-Dark, Yveltal, and Giratina help a lot too.

Lastly, its moveset includes stuff like Quiver Dance and screens (as previously mentioned), allowing it to wallbreak/help teammates set up better (yay for viv), and Stun Spore is actually very nice for screwing around with stuff.
 
This is just what I think about all of the web setters and which one's are superior/inferior. When comparing web setters the main 4 that are used would be shuckle, smeargle, slurpuff, and ribombee. I don't really like using both shuckle and smeargle because you're 5v6 on the msab mu and typically msab is used on stall/bulkier teams so that doesn't really help things either even though occasionally sticky web isn't helpful in those type of mu's. 3/4 web setters can be put in a situation to lose to taunt/sub mgar without getting their webs up as well. Slurpuff needs to magic coat predicting a taunt or predict a sub/hex/sball first turn and put up web; it's a 50/50. Same with smeargle, 50/50 vs mgar which can really just be awful if you get the prediction wrong, leaving the mgar with a sub, no web up, and a dead smeargle. Problem with bee vs mgar is that ribombee gets taunted and running magic coat doesn't seem very optimal when it gets other great fillers like screens/toxic/uturn. Lastly shuckle does the best vs mgar due to mental herb, although a disadvantage to running that as your web setter is it gets ohko'd by dusk manes z move unless you're babiri berry. Personally I feel that shuckle is the superior web setter in just about every situation because infestation/encore can lead to so many good follow ups (it also gets rocks which is super nice) aside from it being dead weight vs msab. I'll also say that yeah, obviously you don't have to lead with your web setter if your opponent has mgar or dusk-mane, except that you can lose the game entirely if your opponent gets rocks up to break your sash/sturdy. The only logical mon to lead with aside from these web setters is almost always yveltal, which does amazing on all types of web teams and should almost always be utilized. Ribombee benefits the most off of having yveltal deal with a mgar lead because even if rocks go up to break your sash, 381 speed lets you have a great chance of putting webs up. There's some other stuff I think that make slurpuff good like not allowing your opponent to setup or defog via yawn/endeavor but bee doesn't take anything either vs defog supportceus since it can toxic/web everything aside from defog poisonceus/steelceus which hardly exists. In conclusion, it's kinda just personal preference. Use smeargle if you're uncompetitive and want to use moody bp/spore, use shuckle if you don't feel that you will face msab or have a team that can deal with bulky builds, use slurpuff or bee if you want to beat msab and want the other perks of doing well vs supportceus, having screens on bee, shield dust etc. In my opinion i'd never use smeargle because it's just inferior in a couple different situations so i'd rank it 4th best, the other 3 are extremely close to each other in my opinion and there's no way to just choose one so i'd probably pick depending on the structure of my team. So yeah definitely put bee and slurpuff on vr, they're good
 
I am nominating normal kyogre from b- to b+


Although you are sacrificing the amazing boosts of primal reversion, Putting a scarf on kyogre is arguably just as good. If you bring kyogre on something that I can easily kill with water spout there isn't really much you opponent can switch in to without being punished with huge damage
Kyogre can come in and ohko or at least 2hko almost anything in the game
Calcs:
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 135-160 (38.4 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 218-258 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (After a life orb use ohko)
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Rain: 351-414 (79 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Rain: 256-303 (57.6 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Fairy in Rain: 261-307 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 456-540 (71.6 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Yveltal in Rain: 463-546 (117.8 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega in Rain: 427-504 (163.6 - 193.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega in Rain: 313-370 (119.9 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-803045910
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-803049943
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-803051241


Also change scarf kyogre from niche to viable
 
I am nominating normal kyogre from b- to b+


Although you are sacrificing the amazing boosts of primal reversion, Putting a scarf on kyogre is arguably just as good. If you bring kyogre on something that I can easily kill with water spout there isn't really much you opponent can switch in to without being punished with huge damage
Kyogre can come in and ohko or at least 2hko almost anything in the game
Calcs:
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 135-160 (38.4 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 218-258 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (After a life orb use ohko)
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Rain: 351-414 (79 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Rain: 256-303 (57.6 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Fairy in Rain: 261-307 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 456-540 (71.6 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Yveltal in Rain: 463-546 (117.8 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega in Rain: 427-504 (163.6 - 193.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega in Rain: 313-370 (119.9 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO



Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-803045910
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-803049943
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-803051241


Also change scarf kyogre from niche to viable
Humm so I do agree with scarf being epic but I think you forget that the other epic set is specs. Now no it may not be as good as a scarf but if u need more damage it can get the job done. It can a lot of times bluff scarf then hit something for extreme damage. But I still would just most times run webs with it because then you don't have to bluff and can outspeed everything. Overall its niche but still very notable when taking into account of kyogre as a whole.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 218-257 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 358-422 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 223-263 (63.5 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 164-193 (46.7 - 54.9%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO (with rocks OHKO)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 536-632 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (no zygarde runs max spd nor should they ever this is just to show kyogres power)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Grass in Rain: 213-252 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
(Idek what normal grass arc should look like cuz I never run it myself also with rocks guaranteed 2hko)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Lugia in Rain: 231-272 (55.5 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (after rocks guaranteed ohko)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Lugia in Rain: 169-200 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (but again with rocks guranteed ohko)
 
I am nominating normal kyogre from b- to b+


Although you are sacrificing the amazing boosts of primal reversion, Putting a scarf on kyogre is arguably just as good. If you bring kyogre on something that I can easily kill with water spout there isn't really much you opponent can switch in to without being punished with huge damage
Kyogre can come in and ohko or at least 2hko almost anything in the game
Calcs:
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 135-160 (38.4 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 218-258 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (After a life orb use ohko)
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Rain: 351-414 (79 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Rain: 256-303 (57.6 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Fairy in Rain: 261-307 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 456-540 (71.6 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Yveltal in Rain: 463-546 (117.8 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega in Rain: 427-504 (163.6 - 193.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega in Rain: 313-370 (119.9 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-803045910
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-803049943
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-803051241


Also change scarf kyogre from niche to viable
While I do agree that scarf kyogre has definitely been slept on, I'll have to oppose this one. With the introduction of Dusk Mane Necrozma, Primal Groudon is gaining usage, something that scarf kyogre hates. In addition, while it does hit hard for sure, it lacks the ability to OHKO important pokemon like Mega Rayquaza which can otherwise OHKO it back. Holding a scarf will definitely limit its options too, meaning that scarfed kyogre will usually have a few matchups where it is severely lacking and is forced to switch out.

As a result, I think scarf kyogre is definitely good, however I just don't see it being good enough for B+. Moving it to B= tier seems fine imo.

oh hi i'm back with some more noms that no one likes :D (yay i stopped procrastinating i feel accomplished)

anyways,
Kartana to D
I believe this guy has been slept on, but it's so good as a cleaner. People have been talking about how Naganadel is threatening, but on webs, this thing is ten times more scary than anything else I've seen... and yes, that includes accepted good Pokémon like Ultra Necrozma, Mega Rayquaza, and the like.
Why?

Kartana's access to Beast Boost (which equates to a slightly nerfed Moxie, as you can't get it with passive damage) means that it will snowball like nothing else in the tier can, and its 181 base Attack stat and free choice of an item (most notably Z-moves, but a Life Orb or Choice Band could work too) means that it can get those first few kills easily most of the time. It also has access to great coverage moves in Knock Off and Sacred Sword and also a good secondary STAB move in Smart Strike. Grass isn't such a terrible STAB typing; it hits most common Arceus Formes for at least neutral or Super Effective damage and many of its resistances are weak to one of Kartana's coverage moves. It also has surprisingly good Physical Defense (its base HP and Defense are almost as good as Skarmory's, a defensive wall) and Grass/Steel is a pretty good typing, which means that it can easily live most priority. It also has a pretty nice resistance to Extreme Speed and a neutrality to Shadow Sneak.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790330446 (Kart sweeps)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-789526888 (Kart sweeps again)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790671099 (Kart sweeps a third time)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790752713 (Kart sweeps again... yaaaawn)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790331814 (Kart finishes mRay, kills Groundceus, and softens up my opponents Groudon, allowing my own Groudon to finish the job)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-789528029 (Kart removes the Defogger and Gengar)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790758767 (Kart sets up on Yveltal and gets rid of mRay, causing forfeit)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790747436 (And have a last Kartana sweep because why not)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-790773386 (Kart causes forfeit as soon as it's out lmao)

Also Aerodactyl could probably go to D because it does the same thing as Excadrill but it's faster but I'm too lazy to actually write out a nom for that :/
Adding on to this, Kartana also has the ability to run a choice scarf, allowing it to easily revenge kill weakened pokemon and outspeed arceus formes, marshadow, and Mega Gengar. After a +1 attack boost, it easily can OHKO most offensive pokemon, and potentially OHKO supportceus if using a super effective move. Not much else to say here, just adding on to Lavaclaw's nom

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-801862918 (scarf kartana sweeps three pokemon due to beast boost. Go ahead and kill me for using a meme team, it's not like I care that much lol)
 
Necrozma Dusk- Mane A+ --> A
So ik I was supporting this to S at one point, but now it just feels... underwhelming. Double Dance used to be incredible, but now every team seems to have a check to it, meaning it's almost impossible to sweep against prepared teams. The only real thing it can do is pick off 1 to 2 mons, and in such a scenario where you'd rather have, say, BU marsh or geo xern. Against HO this thing just gets OHKOed most of the time, and its not setting up on good balance and stall builds. The other main set, sr max spdef, is good, but when you get set up on every offensive steel type and other mons if ur lacking z, it really makes it feel overhyped. I like morning sun sd sets to beat stall, but this is mostly useless against any other playstyle. It comes in, gets a kill, then either dies or is forced to switch, just letting the oppo getting momentum. This mon is good, rly good, but it just doesn't feel overpowering like it did a few months ago, when I had this on 60% of my teams.


Edit: It's one of those mons that you say, "Do I have a check to it?" Like with mray, but the difference is that DM's checks are incredibly good at their job and rarely lose to it. Unlike mray, these checks blanket check its two sets.
 
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some noms I don't feel too strongly about but make sense

Clefable C to D

"fits" on stall even though it's outclassed as a cleric by chansey/blissey/mag.
having to protect after wish makes clef vulnerable/easy for the opponent to gain momentum.
very hard to build with, you're probably not going to make anywhere near a good team with clef on it; almost guaranteed to have a big weakness.
gets trapped by gar w/o shed shell, obviously you can compensate by having tyranitar on your team but you're still likely to get trapped.

252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%)
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%)
252+ SpA Life Orb Yveltal Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 146-173 (37 - 43.9%)
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yveltal: 200-236 (50.8 - 60%)
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%)
252 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 144-169 (36.5 - 42.8%) -- 97.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Niche:
unaware allows clefable to counter ekiller, zygarde + gar if shed shell, cm arceus, and soft check yveltal



Giratina B to B+

there isn't much to say here since everyone knows the giratina set, being..

248 hp +204 def 56 spd or
248 hp +252 def 8 spd or..
in some other cases more spd to check pogre better

- Toxic
- Defog
- Rest
- DTail/Roar/Wisp

Giratina is an absolute nightmare to face because of pressure, insane bulk, dragon typing making it the only mon able to check both primals, and a being very good defogger.

Big threats giratina checks-

Pdon, Pogre, Ho-oh, Ferrothorn, Ekiller, and soft checks Zygarde and Mray



Smeargle B+ to B/B-

Aside from the fact that Smeargle is my least favorite mon by far, I truly don't understand why this is B+

Is Smeargle seriously this good? There are lots of shenanigans that Smeargle can pull off due to it being able to learn every move in pokemon and having the most rage inducing ability the game could offer, but c'mon now.. I'd like to hear why anyone thinks Smeargle is considered this good, i'm not seeing it. It's a secondary ranked web setter and the rest of its existence is just a combination of hax/aids strategies (which aren't competitive by any standards) like smash pass or spam sub and spiky shield until you get enough moody boosts to ohko everything with power trip
 
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Smeargle B+ to B/B-

Is Smeargle seriously this good?
I think u answered your own question

Being able to learn every move in pokemon (including taunt) and having the most rage inducing ability the game could offer, but c'mon now.. I'd like to hear why anyone thinks Smeargle is considered this good, i'm not seeing it. It's (secondary) at best a web setter

and

The rest of its existence is just a combination of hax/aids strategies (which aren't competitive by any standards)
You don't necessarily need to be competitive to win the game; you just need a 2/7 chance to instantly bs your way to a win. It doesn't matter how well you play, if your opponent gets that 2/7 chance with Smeargle, you're done. There is literally no other Mon that can give you that same chance to hax your way to victory than smeargle. You simply need to have a counter to BP on your team, let alone dsmp smeargle bs. If anything, I'd argue Smeargle should move up. There's a reason that Smeargle was voted the most feared Mon at team preview, via room poll.

Agree on your other noms btw. I feel that clef can still be used (so not to UR) as a stored power user somewhat capable of beating BP, and Gira is legitimately scary to face currently.
 
Quick question: what’s happening with the Community Create-A-Team project? The team is done, are you going to start a new one? When I try to post there it says ‘you have insufficient privileges to reply here’. So like, what’s happenening? (This is a post done by someone with showdown blocked but smogon not btw).
the first CCAT project took over 6 months to finish and had inappreciable contribution from most of the top and experienced players.

I highly doubt if we'll have another CCAT anytime soon.
 
Arceus-Poison B+ to A-
The set:
248 hp / 8 def / 156 spd / 96+ speed Item: Poisonium Z
-Poison Jab
-Recover
-Stealth Rock / Perish Song / Roar / Defog
-Will-O-Wisp

Hard Counters:

Checks:

Soft Checks:


Arceus-Poison is tremendously hard to kill

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-794811159 go to turn 43

*This is just an example but there are lots of cases where Poisonceus can be such a nuisance and can win with jab + wisp

Arceus-Grass C to B-/B

The sets:
248 hp / 244+ spd / 16 speed Item: Meadow Plate
-Grass Knot
-Recover
-Defog / Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
-Will-O-Wisp / Roar / Substitute / Ice Beam

252 spa / 252+ speed / 4 spd Item: Meadow Plate
-Grass Knot
-Recover / Fire Blast / Stone Edge
-Calm Mind
-Ice Beam

-I've featured Arceus-Grass in several of my newer balance teams.
-While Arceus-Grass is very weak to Mray, so is Pdon.. and Ferro.. and Chansey.. and everything else that checks Pogre. Does that make them bad?
-Arceus-Grass fits on some teams a lot better than Pdon could, mainly working as an Arceus-Ground counter and a solid Ferrothorn answer.
-An unexplored set is Sub Twave. If you've ever faced Serperior then you know where this is going, good luck if you lack a Ho-oh or Poisonceus.
-I'm not too much of a fan of the offensive set, but invested grass knot does pack a punch.

It's also worth noting that Tyranitar works wonderfully alongside Arceus-Grass and allows it to focus on what it does best while having Ttar take care of what it can't do which is: being able to check Mray, Mgar, Yveltal, and Ho-oh while Arceus-Grass checks Arceus-Ground and Pogre.

0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 248 HP / 244+ SpD Arceus-Grass: 97-115 (21.8 - 25.9%) Hardly breaks sub
0 SpA Meadow Plate Arceus-Grass Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 154-183 (34.7 - 41.3%)
252 SpA Meadow Plate Arceus-Grass Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 190-225 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Arceus-Dragon C to D
The Set:
248 hp / 244+ spd / 16 speed
-Judgment
-Recover
-Stealth Rock / Defog
- Toxic / Will-O-Wisp

I used to be a "fan" of Arceus-Dragon, but it was really more of a meme than anything ;;.
Arceus-Dragon is absolutely awful on teams that don't have Mgar, but even so, Arceus-Dragon is terrible on Mgar teams.
Let me explain, The main role Arceus-Dragon has is to check Pogre and soft check things like Yveltal and Zygarde.
Arceus-Dragon is NOT a reliable Pogre check at all. If Pogre freezes Arceus-Dragon then the game is practically over.

Mgar balance teams almost never have hard hitting physical attackers that can deal significant damage to Pogre (Marsh and physical Unecro are just about the only exceptions).

Can't forget that CM + Rest Pogre also annihilates any Dragonceus Mgar balance. Dragonceus is as well horrible in the fact that judgment is not very effective against steel types and is nullified by fairy types, meaning that the only way of causing damage to those types are with status.

Essentially you'd need to run Toxic and Wisp otherwise it's not possible to cover switch-ins from things like Necrozma Dusk-Mane and Xerneas. Using Dragonceus as a defogger isn't very good either, even with Ho-oh, I wouldn't recommend it.

Side note: Sorry about not looking very hard at the thread when I did my last nom, I didn't see but zen already nominated gira B to B+ and it went 50/50. I still definitely agree with that nom. I'm also confident Poisonceus will move up to A-
 

perfect minun

formerly bdov
Naganadel C -> B-
I nommed naga to C last time and its the same reasons that i would like to nom it higher. This mon is extremely scary to all kinds of teams, and works well on almost any ho and even a few balance teams. its coverage can break through a lot of annoying walls, and it doesnt always need to boost to clean up late game. Naga deserves to be seen as a threat because it always is the first thing you look at in team preview. C and lower is for niche mons, and naga has proven to be more than just a niche.
Xerneas A -> A+
Xerneas is still extremely versatile, and can do so many different things for whatever your team needs. Whether it be defog/aroma support, scarf clean up/scarf status, geo clean up, or even Z, xern can most likely fill multiple holes in a team in one spot. The rise of Ultra necrozma also means that a lot of teams are surprisingly unprepared for a simple geo set, even though i think support is a bit better atm.
Yveltal A -> A-
This is nothing against yveltal as much as its meta trends atm. Status, DD ray, fairy type support, etc is everywhere. Yveltal doesnt have the offensive fire power to deal with this. The scarf set becomes useless if a ray gets a DD, and also gets walled by fairies. The life orb set whittles itself down, and you cant spam o wing against most teams. The defensive set is unreliable and again gets walled by fairies. above all of this is that every team has multiple status users that can cripple yveltal instantly.
Mega Kangaskan Unranked -> D
More personal preference than anything, but on bulky offensive teams, mega kang puts in massive work. with stealth rocks up, it can seismic toss to 2ko everything in the meta besides zyg, chansey + blissey, and ghosts obviously. ghost types are the biggest hinderance to it, but shadow claw can ohko marsh and mgar. obviously you wonder why you would use mkang over ray, but mkang isnt really meant as a sweeper. its a mon that can slowly whittle down your opponent and support your sweepers/walls by whittling down your opponents answers. Honestly i dont think you will nom this one and im not too big on it myself but its better then a lot of the d rank mons right now and there are other megas that this outclasses.
 
Ferrothorn A- --> A
Hear me out on this one. Ferrothorn is probably the most effective Primal Kyogre check in the entire game, as its high special bulk, leech seed and grass/steel typing allow it to take everything kyogre can throw at it. With bullet seed or power whip, ferrothorn also breaks sub CM variants. Ferrothorn's amazing defensive typing allows it to check almost every supportceus variant in the game. This pokemon is such an effective check to the likes of fairceus, groundceus, darkceus, rockceus, and dragonceus that some sets have been forced to run fire coverage to not auto lose to ferro. Ferrothorn also marks itself as one of the hardest pokemon to switch into, due to its crippling leech seed and toxic being able to hit almost every relevant pokemon in the tier. Ferrothorn can also greatly hinder sweepers with leech, allowing priority users to pick them off. Ferrothorn also has the option of confide to wall CM arceus. This pokemon can also check Xerneas, mega gengar, celesteela, and yveltal. It is just simply one of the best walls in the game, and can punish set up users with continuous damage, which many walls lacking phazing struggle with. Ferrothorn at A- is criminally underrating its ability to check balance, the most solid playstyle out there right now. For these reasons, Ferrothorn to A.
 

Megazard

yay
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnus
PU Leader
Hey we did a lil bit of a votey thingy u can see the votes here.
Code:
Clefable C to D
Giratina B to B+
Arceus-Grass C to B-
Excadrill B- to B
Deoxys-Speed B to B-
There were a lot of much bigger changes to the way the A subranks are composed but we didn't really conclusively agree on any of them, it would've helped to have everyone around but for now we stayed split on things like dropping Yveltal or raising Xerneas. Hopefully posting the full slate like we did helps give some feedback on whether a nom is worth continued discussion, Yveltal in particular is the big thing it'd be worth seeing more opinions on.
 

lotiasite

undedgy
is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Hey, I have a proposal.

So I was talking to bdov the other day, discussing the noms she posted earlier. In particular, we were discussing the prospect of Xerneas to A+, and I thought of something that would be pretty helpful and would help with a lot of other issues the VR council is having. Anyway, the proposal is to use the ranking system within the subranks themselves instead of having the Pokemon ordered alphabetically. What I mean is to make it like the Ubers VR thread, which seems to work quite well because it gives a clear indication of which Pokemon is better than another even if they are the same rank. Ubers is a very similar metagame to AG (furthermore, Ubers is an official metagame, it their VR generally updates more frequently) and thus I believe this proposal makes a lot of sense.
Now mostly what I was discussing with bdov was whether Xerneas should go to A+. I didn't agree with it raising to A+, because I didn't believe it was on par with Primal Groudon and Necrozma-DM, but I thought it was better than the rest of A (at the very least, Yveltal, Arceus-Ground, and arguably Marshadow and Ultra Necrozma). This made me think of the ranking system, in which Xerneas would be at the top of A, not good enough for A+ but eclipsing most of A. Just for fun, my ideal A rank would be Xerneas, Arceus-Fairy, Ultra Necrozma, Marshadow, Ho-Oh, Arceus-Ground, Yveltal. This way, nothing actually moves subranks, but readers can see which Pokemon is better than another. The VR doesn't update enough to where I believe this would be effective (OU rejected the idea because the meta adapts way too much where it would troublesome to keep changing the positions of Pokemon within subranks).
This also solves the issue of the Yveltal to A-. Personally, I think Yveltal is threatening enough to stay out of A-, but it's still worse than all of A, so it can sit at the bottom of A.
I know that this will be quite troublesome to start up, but after that, I think it will be fine because most Pokemon are not going to move all that drastically. There are only 51 Pokemon (if i counted right) in the VR excluding D rank (which I don't think is important enough to rank within). That's not very much to rank, and a lot of the Pokemon will be pretty easy to sort through if they're in small ranks.
The reason I want this to happen is because too often the VR council has split 50/50 decisions on things (just use the above slate as an example, they went 50/50 on 4/16 noms, which is a quarter of the noms. People being split on whether a Pokemon should be one subrank or another shows that said Pokemon is probably teetering on the edge of the two subranks, and a good solution to this is to make that Pokemon either the bottom or top of a respective rank to show that they are close to another rank without actually being that rank. Because right now, readers looking at the VR might look at A rank and say "oh, Ultra Necrozma and Yveltal are of the same viability", which (at least in my opinion) isn't true. Other discrepancies in other ranks (imo) include:
- Lunala and Arceus-Poison being much better than Celesteela/Arceus-Rock
- Chansey, Excadrill, and Lugia being much better than Arceus-Ghost and Gothitelle (goth is a bit hard to rank because it's so weird)
- Arceus-Grass and base Kyogre being much better than Shuckle, Deo-A, Deo-S, and MMX
and more.
While some of these can be solved by moving Pokemon up or down a rank, these Pokemon currently reside within the same rank and thus are given the same weighting by most readers, especially if they aren't caught up with the meta or experienced.

In conclusion, I think the positives of a ranking system within subranks instead of an alphabetical system will outweigh the negatives of such a system.

tldr: rank stuff within subranks instead of alphabetically, solves issues with council voting, solves issues with pokemon of the same rank being better than others, solves issues of mons teetering on the edge of dropping/rising

Thanks for reading!
 

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