Resource USUM AG Viability Rankings

[ArcticBreeze]

Disagree with the pykumuku nom. Pykumuku is a really cool pokemon with access to unaware and inwards out. On paper the mon looks great but in play it is dealt with pretty easily. It has no real way to do with status out side of support and most teams that afford that support with pykumuku is stall which is what used to get high ladder ,but stall hates mega gar and this mon lets m gar to come in for free unless rocks are up and even if rocks are up it still can come in multiple times. This is also walled by rest users. Main rest user in the tier is Pdon which if rest makes it useless. Its Z-Purify BP SET is not completely but almost completely out classed by other baton pass users i will mainly mention smeargle it does pass defenses and has better bulk and could afford to switch in and out pokemon get moves like that yes it means they have to take more damage but it will save them a team slot instead of running pykumuku using Z-Purify means taking up a z crystal. Also must mention taunt kills it lol., as i mentioned M gar there is also Defensive and most lo sets of Yvetal and others.



Here are some calcs,

252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 214-253 (68.1 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 196-231 (62.4 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 237-279 (75.4 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 237-279 (75.4 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 225-265 (71.6 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



And what thimo said about Clefable being better I totally agree.


Keep it at D.



I have my first nom and its waterceus dropping from A- to B+,





1. Walled by some of the best pokemon in the tier for example P don ( https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-739436417 ) If it was toxic and Pdon wasn't rest it would have poisoned don but other mons can deal with toxic like ferro Chansey and Blissey wall the defensive set which is the one that is mainly used and most teams have atleast one of these or something else for it.


2. Sd is not outclassed in a sense but normally there are better options Like arc, Arc ground, U necro, Necro dusk mane,M-Ray (if on webs or u can afford it), Marshadow, DD users (mainly Mega ray and partial Zygarde-C), and Pogre Does its job better in most cases. This pokemon cant get past ferrothorn unless sub and if ur sub you sacrifice priority or your form of hitting certain pokemon in stone edge both of these tho are affordable to remove for eq because on certain teams u can chip yvetal for liquidation and eq helps it alot. (Marshadow also threatens it with spectral if u predict an sd or if marsh 2 hit kos everything left on your team and u have no free sacks assuming its sash or your chipped because water z does 252 Atk Arceus-Water Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 157-186 (48.9 - 57.9%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO unboosted and if its splash plate it does less and if its used z 252 Atk Arceus-Water Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 157-186 (48.9 - 57.9%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO .)

3. Cm is a horrible set imo (also i know that this is not a set i just wanted to bring it up). It lacks what other arc that use cm have. Arc steel cant be poisoned and can afford another move because of that like earth power (for pokemon like don) or thunder (for pokemon like celesteela) arc fairy can beat cm darceus and is a xern with less coverage but multiple times to set up and darceus has a solid type that with a few cms it can beat arc fairy unless crit on the right turns also i must mention all the pokemon have stabs that pokemon are not immune to, primal don is immune to judgement. This pokemon is not a solid cm user but all of us already know this just wanted to talk about it.


Its defensive set is walled by alot and its offensive set is something most people would would would use another mon and this pokemon is horrible as a cm user due to it either having the possibility to be statused and chansey or blissey if confine removes set up and if its not refresh it gets poisoned or in rare cases paraed.


I'm sure this is not solid at all for a nom and alot of my points are trash and i failed to explain things just blame that on it being my first nom LOL

 

[ArcticBreeze]

If someone could tell me how to link another post that would be useful and ty.


Role Compendium: Under other I suggest making Vivillon SOLID(quiver dance).

On webs it can 6-0 just about every team that is not ready for it. It does have very low defense meaning that priority if the sub is removed from a good pokemon can ohko and scarf marsh but if a sub and quiver is up and you opponent is asleep it can win right there it hates being roared or whirlwind blowing it off the field but with a sub it cant be removed with dragon tail and even if rocks are up and u sub you still can sweep due to sleep turns giving u recovery i do see the reason for it not being solid thought because unless it comes on a mon slower it has a hard time setting up on non webs team and there are pokemon who make it useless and cant forget there are other good mons on webs. Edit: Even though it is not the best not on webs dont get me wrong it still works when not on webs can can still 6-0. So this should be SOLID IMO.

 

[Satanic Beast]

if you wanna quote another post, just click reply to a post or highlight what you wanna quote
yw

edit:

[15:40:02] #Megazard: Edgar Allan Poet that
[15:40:05] Ransei: That sounds broken
[15:40:06] #Megazard: isnt how u link a post lol
[15:40:11] Edgar Allan Poet: sry
[15:40:13] Edgar Allan Poet: hold on
[15:40:16] thimo: ransei
[15:40:20] #Megazard: u click on the post number
[15:40:22] thimo: u do remember ekiller spam right
[15:40:25] #Megazard: and then just copy the url as normal

 

[ArcticBreeze]

k thx

 

[Ejthewolfy]

Disagree with the pykumuku nom. Pykumuku is a really cool pokemon with access to unaware and inwards out. On paper the mon looks great but in play it is dealt with pretty easily. It has no real way to do with status out side of support and most teams that afford that support with pykumuku is stall which is what used to get high ladder ,but stall hates mega gar and this mon lets m gar to come in for free unless rocks are up and even if rocks are up it still can come in multiple times. This is also walled by rest users. Main rest user in the tier is Pdon which if rest makes it useless. Its Z-Purify BP SET is not completely but almost completely out classed by other baton pass users i will mainly mention smeargle it does pass defenses and has better bulk and could afford to switch in and out pokemon get moves like that yes it means they have to take more damage but it will save them a team slot instead of running pykumuku using Z-Purify means taking up a z crystal. Also must mention taunt kills it lol., as i mentioned M gar there is also Defensive and most lo sets of Yvetal and others.



Here are some calcs,

252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 214-253 (68.1 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 196-231 (62.4 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 237-279 (75.4 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 237-279 (75.4 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 225-265 (71.6 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



And what thimo said about Clefable being better I totally agree.


Keep it at D.



I have my first nom and its waterceus dropping from A- to B+,





1. Walled by some of the best pokemon in the tier for example P don ( https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-739436417 ) If it was toxic and Pdon wasn't rest it would have poisoned don but other mons can deal with toxic like ferro Chansey and Blissey wall the defensive set which is the one that is mainly used and most teams have atleast one of these or something else for it.


2. Sd is not outclassed in a sense but normally there are better options Like arc, Arc ground, U necro, Necro dusk mane,M-Ray (if on webs or u can afford it), Marshadow, DD users (mainly Mega ray and partial Zygarde-C), and Pogre Does its job better in most cases. This pokemon cant get past ferrothorn unless sub and if ur sub you sacrifice priority or your form of hitting certain pokemon in stone edge both of these tho are affordable to remove for eq because on certain teams u can chip yvetal for liquidation and eq helps it alot. (Marshadow also threatens it with spectral if u predict an sd or if marsh 2 hit kos everything left on your team and u have no free sacks assuming its sash or your chipped because water z does 252 Atk Arceus-Water Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 157-186 (48.9 - 57.9%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO unboosted and if its splash plate it does less and if its used z 252 Atk Arceus-Water Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 157-186 (48.9 - 57.9%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO .)

3. Cm is a horrible set imo (also i know that this is not a set i just wanted to bring it up). It lacks what other arc that use cm have. Arc steel cant be poisoned and can afford another move because of that like earth power (for pokemon like don) or thunder (for pokemon like celesteela) arc fairy can beat cm darceus and is a xern with less coverage but multiple times to set up and darceus has a solid type that with a few cms it can beat arc fairy unless crit on the right turns also i must mention all the pokemon have stabs that pokemon are not immune to, primal don is immune to judgement. This pokemon is not a solid cm user but all of us already know this just wanted to talk about it.


Its defensive set is walled by alot and its offensive set is something most people would would would use another mon and this pokemon is horrible as a cm user due to it either having the possibility to be statused and chansey or blissey if confine removes set up and if its not refresh it gets poisoned or in rare cases paraed.


I'm sure this is not solid at all for a nom and alot of my points are trash and i failed to explain things just blame that on it being my first nom LOL

OK about the water arc part idt anyone uses sd or cm form or at lest I have not seen anyone use them. Its outclassed in those aspects and its not really meant to do those things or at lest not that often. Water arc just by being water allows it to be a little more tanky and status. Its a support mon not offence. Its more of a combo mon (well i mean that what support means) but anyway about status it can use wisp and toxic to weaken and pretty much make some mons worthless. It can wisp ray,mane, ferrothorn, celesteela, and being a tiny bit Farfetch'd it can sometimes get zygarde or sd arc forms that don't have sub (and yes ik you loved that pokepun). As for toxic it gets pretty much every support mon and support arc along with cm arcs besides those that have refresh and I also do see that don with rest walls it but it does get almost every other don set and I think most people will have something else to deal with don. Also gar with hex just loves this status and works well with this support mon. This mon also fits decent other balances and stall. But also even tho it does have good status its not completely passive. It has icebeam so it can be a decent ray and zygarde check also does chip damage to every other mon. Also a decent defogger because of typing. Really because of its typing it can do most of what I have listed slightly better then some other arc forms. All in all amazing support mon and can work on many different teams but its still best on balance imo.

 

[ArcticBreeze]

OK about the water arc part idt anyone uses sd or cm form or at lest I have not seen anyone use them. Its outclassed in those aspects and its not really meant to do those things or at lest not that often. Water arc just by being water allows it to be a little more tanky and status. Its a support mon not offence. Its more of a combo mon (well i mean that what support means) but anyway about status it can use wisp and toxic to weaken and pretty much make some mons worthless. It can wisp ray,mane, ferrothorn, celesteela, and being a tiny bit Farfetch'd it can sometimes get zygarde or sd arc forms that don't have sub (and yes ik you loved that pokepun). As for toxic it gets pretty much every support mon and support arc along with cm arcs besides those that have refresh and I also do see that don with rest walls it but it does get almost every other don set and I think most people will have something else to deal with don. Also gar with hex just loves this status and works well with this support mon. This mon also fits decent other balances and stall. But also even tho it does have good status its not completely passive. It has icebeam so it can be a decent ray and zygarde check also does chip damage to every other mon. Also a decent defogger because of typing. Really because of its typing it can do most of what I have listed slightly better then some other arc forms. All in all amazing support mon and can work on many different teams but its still best on balance imo.

Ok Im Ngl I Failed I frogot that Dusk Mane Mega Gar existed And That Wisp Burn Lowers Attack Ngl What Was I Thinking Looooooooooooool



Must Be The Curse Of My First Ever Vr Post

 

[bdov]

Got a few more noms i planned to make earlier but got kinda busy

Arc Fairy A to A+
ok this mon deserves way more credit then most people give it. it is easily the best arc form, as tour usage and overall depth implies, yet it is paired in rankings with 2 other forms that arent nearly as good as fairyceus. defensive fairyceus is an amazing way to deal with giant threats in the meta such as zygarde, marsh, and mega ray, the only downside being that it gets easily trapped by mgar and gothitelle. However, goth has significantly decreased in popularity as of late, and it is very possible to play around mgar with most teams. another possibility is earth power, which combined with a judgement can easily deal with gar, although fairyceus will be crippled in the process. in my opinion fairyceus outclasses all other arc forms atm, so i feel the rankings should prove that. also this nom goes along with the next one im about to make.

Xerneas A- to A
To be honest i wouldnt nom this unless arc fairy moved up, only because i dont feel its on par with fairyceus. however, other than that it fits into A perfectly. I truly believe xern is still the best late game sweeper in the meta, and as of late i have really enjoyed aromageo as a set. aromatherapy can be used on a balance team in order to preserve your walls, while still being able to keep up offensive pressure due to the raw power of xerns moonblast. xern is also naturally bulky, able to live and scare out certain threats such as yveltal and cm darkceus. but adding in an extra attack is great as well. moonblast/ focus blast/ thunder is great coverage. overall though xern is still a huge threat in the meta and can punish teams extremely well. xern also is able to potentially 2KO dusk mane, which is the biggest reason for its decline. all it takes is one neutral moonblast into a geo moonblast to knock it out, which is surprisingly easier than most think

252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 105-125 (31.3 - 37.3%) -- 84% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 211-249 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Smeargle B to B+
I did this one mainly for thimo, but smeargle has definitely become more of a popular choice as of late for offensively oriented teams. having access to any move in the game is amazing, and can push momentum highly in your favor with spore/hazards.

Shaymin-Sky Unranked to D
Lastly, I have felt like this has been deserved for a while, but with the release of celebrate, Skymin has suddenly gotten a huge buff. after a Z-celebrate it not only outspeeds every single mon in the game, but also gets an extreme boost in its bulk and special attack. Skymin was always annoying with flinch spam, but it was always easy to kill before that. now however its a lot tougher. I have Calced a bunch of spreads to determine that 42/0-/136/88/0/242+ is the best spread to run on skymin, and i will show some impressive calcs below

252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. +1 42 HP / 136 Def Shaymin-Sky: 297-349 (84.6 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 88 SpA Shaymin-Sky Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 171-202 (51 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. +1 42 HP / 136 Def Shaymin-Sky: 131-155 (37.3 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. +1 42 HP / 136 Def Shaymin-Sky: 114-135 (32.4 - 38.4%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. +1 42 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-Sky: 129-153 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. +1 42 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-Sky: 256-304 (72.9 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 88 SpA Shaymin-Sky Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 420-494 (94.5 - 111.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[ArcticBreeze]

Agree with all but xern. Smeargle does smeargle. Shaymin sky got a new tool that lets it beat many answers with a celebrate z move used with the defense boost helping vs Pokemon like dusk mane the spa boost boosting moves and speed for outspeed the spa helps vs select arceus. With earth power it can damage so many answers hard like dusk mane and pdon. High power seed flare damages pokemon hard while gig a drain heals though seed flare is better because it kos surveyed that you need to kill and others. Air slash can flinch after serene grace and miss chance it's a 55 percent chance to flinch.arceus fairy deserves the rank imo above the others. This is a great pokemon. Fairy type is important. This means a super effective move vs mega ray.this takes a plus one Dragon accent adamant lo. This pokemon beats marshadow and many other arc forms by itself or with chip. It can run defog to remove rocks or our rocks on ur opponents field with sr. Can run wisp and have gar on the same team to deal with answers to it or toxic to wittle pokemon down I'll write another post about xern cya

 

[Sir_JaKrispy]

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: A+ -> S-
I feel like this is a completely reasonable nomination. Here's why:

Dusk Mane is one of if not the best Xern check in the game, as well as setting rocks, having reliable recovery, spreading status, and having an amazing ability: Prism Armor. Prism Armor and it's 97/127/109 bulk makes this Mon insanely difficult to 1HKO, and hard to KO in general. Some would-be-checks, such as support Groundceus and support Darkceus, are actually walled by this thing. It can even live a +1 LO EQ from Ada Mray, even after rocks, while Fire Blast Pdon doesn't even 1HKO it, making Overheat the only option to 1HKO it. It's not as passive as one would think, with base 157 attack dealing decent damage to targets, such as Xern, Fairyceus, and even Mray if need be. All of this makes opponents rely on checks/counters that can deal massive damage or chipping it down so it can be cleaned with a late game sweeper, making it an ideal defensive fit for Stall and Balance teams.


On the offensive side, this thing is a monster. It has access to Swords Dance, Rock Polish and Autotomize. Paired with those is its whopping base 157 Attack. This is even further enhanced by the fact that its signature move, Sunsteel Strike, ignores abilities. Oh, did I mention it gets a 200 base power Z-Move that ha she the exact same effect? Yup, that's a thing. It allows it to break through would-be counters, such as defensive Darkceus, Zygarde, Groundceus, and can even beat Cele with appropriate predicts. It also gets EQ, which after allow it to cover Steelceus, other DMs after chip, and even Pdon after chip damage. This thing also can just boost its speed, as mentioned earlier, to outspeed Yve, Mray, and many other would be checks/light checks or mons that offensively pressure it. It can also pressure defensive Yve with its Z move, 1HKOing it.

All in all, I feel like DM should be in the same tier with Mgar and Zyg-C. Hope y'all agree :)
P.S. I definetly didn't write this in class

+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 519-612 (123.5 - 145.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane in Harsh Sunshine: 337-397 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 337-397 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 153-181 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Dark: 525-618 (118.2 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Kate]

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: A+ -> S-
I feel like this is a completely reasonable nomination. Here's why:

Dusk Mane is one of if not the best Xern check in the game, as well as setting rocks, having reliable recovery, spreading status, and having an amazing ability: Prism Armor. Prism Armor and it's 97/127/109 bulk makes this Mon insanely difficult to 1HKO, and hard to KO in general. Some would-be-checks, such as support Groundceus and support Darkceus, are actually walled by this thing. It can even live a +1 LO EQ from Ada Mray, even after rocks, while Fire Blast Pdon doesn't even 1HKO it, making Overheat the only option to 1HKO it. It's not as passive as one would think, with base 157 attack dealing decent damage to targets, such as Xern, Fairyceus, and even Mray if need be. All of this makes opponents rely on checks/counters that can deal massive damage or chipping it down so it can be cleaned with a late game sweeper, making it an ideal defensive fit for Stall and Balance teams.


On the offensive side, this thing is a monster. It has access to Swords Dance, Rock Polish and Autotomize. Paired with those is its whopping base 157 Attack. This is even further enhanced by the fact that its signature move, Sunsteel Strike, ignores abilities. Oh, did I mention it gets a 200 base power Z-Move that ha she the exact same effect? Yup, that's a thing. It allows it to break through would-be counters, such as defensive Darkceus, Zygarde, Groundceus, and can even beat Cele with appropriate predicts. It also gets EQ, which after allow it to cover Steelceus, other DMs after chip, and even Pdon after chip damage. This thing also can just boost its speed, as mentioned earlier, to outspeed Yve, Mray, and many other would be checks/light checks or mons that offensively pressure it. It can also pressure defensive Yve with its Z move, 1HKOing it.

All in all, I feel like DM should be in the same tier with Mgar and Zyg-C. Hope y'all agree :)
P.S. I definetly didn't write this in class

+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 519-612 (123.5 - 145.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane in Harsh Sunshine: 337-397 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 337-397 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 153-181 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Dark: 525-618 (118.2 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Made this nom couple of weeks ago, feel like u wrote it better than I did. Thanks for bringing attention to this monster! I'd like to add some more points: at plus 2, sunraze kills regular zygarde from full with room to spare, while doing massive damage to complete. Its z move ohko's mray, so if u opt for auto, mray cant revenge kill you. It can ohko more offensive versions of Ho-oh, and defensive sets can beat defensive hooh 1v1. The only real "counter" would be something like waterceus, but it cant switch into the z move, taking 70 percent. Overall, this is the second best wallbreaker and prob the second best wall in the tier. Even bringing counters to this, it's still hard to win ddue to DM's unpredictability (as it has ultra available) and versatility. Wholeheartedly agree with this nom, Krispy!

 

[GRNBLN]

Arceus-Steel from A- to B+

While Arceus-Steel used to be one the best Arceus Forms I feel like the meta trends and the addition mons like Marshadow, Zygarde-C and Necrozma-(Dusk-Mane) really hinder it. If you look at the other mons in A- rn and how commonly they are used, Arceus-Steel just doesnt fit in. Its main selling point is the toxic immunity but with Glare Zygarde around I would rather have a Refresh Darkceus as a CM-set or an Arceus-Poison defensivly. Its typing leaves it weak to alot of common things rn things like (Scarf-) V-Create Ray, DD / Defensive Zygarde, Marshadow, (Support)-Mega Mewtwo-X and basically the whole S and A-Rank execpt Fairyceus and Xerneas having a good or decent match up against it I think it fits way better into B than into A. CM-Sets basically have to choose what they want to be walled from:
Earth Power: Celesteela, Ho-Oh
Fire Blast / Flamethrower: (Primal) Kyogre, Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh
Thunder / Thunder Bolt: (Primal) Groudon, Ferrothorn

Will add relevant calcs and more info later dont have time for the full nom rn. (Ig this not needed anymore, was busy)

Also I think the tours in resources should be updated as Open and Winter SSNL are over now :)

 

[Kate]

Heatran Unranked --> D/C (Shoutouts to Wuul for telling me bout this)

This is probably the most slept on mon in the game right now. Heatran has very good stat spreads, only really lacking in speed, basically a fire type magearna, barring movepool. However, this nom comes from heatran's ability to completely 6-0 stall, often on its own. It's steel typing plus toxic naturally makes it a good mon to beat stall with, but it shines in its ability to beat CHANSEY! magma storm plus taunt leave chansey with no openings, eliminating a key stop to heatran. The only mon ran on stall that can beat it is groundceus, and with proper team support, this shouldn't be an issue. This mon also works as a sort of gothitelle, trapping support arcs and killing them. There are relatively few counters to this mon, unfortunately, they are very prevalent. However, paired with ferrothorn and zygarde complete, heatran is basically untouchable if played right. It's frankly ridiculous why this mon isnt in VR, when jirachi is. Gonna be laddering later today and posting replays of it in action. Thanks for listening, and if you have anything else to add, please tell me!

 

[ArcticBreeze]

Cool nom. I will have to leave soon hopefully i can fully respond later

Heatran Unranked --> D/C (Shoutouts to Wuul for telling me bout this)

This is probably the most slept on mon in the game right now. Heatran has very good stat spreads, only really lacking in speed, basically a fire type magearna, barring movepool. However, this nom comes from heatran's ability to completely 6-0 stall, often on its own. It's steel typing plus toxic naturally makes it a good mon to beat stall with, but it shines in its ability to beat CHANSEY! magma storm plus taunt leave chansey with no openings, eliminating a key stop to heatran. The only mon ran on stall that can beat it is groundceus, and with proper team support, this shouldn't be an issue. This mon also works as a sort of gothitelle, trapping support arcs and killing them. There are relatively few counters to this mon, unfortunately, they are very prevalent. However, paired with ferrothorn and zygarde complete, heatran is basically untouchable if played right. It's frankly ridiculous why this mon isnt in VR, when jirachi is. Gonna be laddering later today and posting replays of it in action. Thanks for listening, and if you have anything else to add, please tell me!

I am nuetral but i wont accept c, must say though d is reasonable and UR is also reasonable.. This mon is destroyed by many non stall teams. groudon eq arc eq ray eq it has no reliable recoevr primal ogre destroys it and if u say toxic can help it there are other BETTER MONS. It does counter one of the most used pokemon but again other pokemon like steelcius can do better (im talking about arc fairy). Ye dont have time for a full response but just want to post this

 

[Thimo]

Ultra Necrozma A- to A
Imo CM is a really good set right now. Hard to beat and nearly always secures a kill. With Dusk-Mane pre-ultra it can become really tough for your opponent if they don't know the set. You beat the Darkceus switchin and beat Skarmory or Celesteela 1v1 if they happen to switch in, giving you massive momentum. It still gets forced out by things like Marshadow, Yveltal but those are not safe switch ins at all, and the weakness can easily be patched up, because they have some mutual checks such as Arceus-Fairy. This isn't the only set it can run either, SD sets are still threatening and require yet another set of checks. The most reliable way of getting rid of this thing is literally revenge killing it, and that's what makes this a scary thing to face, its sheer unpredictability and access to coverage for checks. It's a brilliant late game sweeper if you get rid of the things that do revenge kill it.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-746811228
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-746804014
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-745836381

Celesteela A to A-/B+
This guy had its time imo. It still does a good job at checking offense but I feel like it's too easily dealt with. It truly relies on Leech Seed for recovery, and any Stall or Balance can just shut down this thing by simply having recovery on something. Then there's a nice amount of Sub sweepers which Celesteela doesn't like at all. Arceus, Zygarde. Offense teams also pack checks like Yveltal, VC on Ray isn't uncommon and even ones without it can bluff it and force it out. I feel like it gets pressured a bit too much by the playstyle it's supposed to check and stopped cold by any other playstyle to be really worthy of the A rank.

Arceus-Poison B to B+
Arceus-Poison being at B shocked me. It's a solid Xerneas check with it's Z-move being able to OHKO it, and taking less than 50% from Thunder with a Specially Defensive set. It also checks things like Marshadow and loads of defensive pokemon due to its Toxic immunity. It can be tough to break and switching into the Poison Jab / Will-O-Wisp combo doesn't easily go without risk, requiring Rest pokemon like Groudon and Zygarde. It has a nice support movepool in Roar, Stealth Rock, and can be a nice Defogger against Fairyceus and Excadrill setters. It also has a notorious CM set. Toxic immunity helps CM shine and the set still beats Xern, although less reliably, because you need to avoid full para from Thunder. Sludge Bomb poisons are nice, but Judgment can be used as well for more power overall with a Fire move or Earth Power as coverage. It is checked by most Ground types, most notably Groudon, but that shoudn't be a reason to not rank it a bit higher since Poisons can easily whittle non-Rest sets down with good team support.

 

[HunterStorm]

Ultra Necrozma A- to A
Imo CM is a really good set right now. Hard to beat and nearly always secures a kill. With Dusk-Mane pre-ultra it can become really tough for your opponent if they don't know the set. You beat the Darkceus switchin and beat Skarmory or Celesteela 1v1 if they happen to switch in, giving you massive momentum. It still gets forced out by things like Marshadow, Yveltal but those are not safe switch ins at all, and the weakness can easily be patched up, because they have some mutual checks such as Arceus-Fairy. This isn't the only set it can run either, SD sets are still threatening and require yet another set of checks. The most reliable way of getting rid of this thing is literally revenge killing it, and that's what makes this a scary thing to face, its sheer unpredictability and access to coverage for checks. It's a brilliant late game sweeper if you get rid of the things that do revenge kill it.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-746811228
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-746804014
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-745836381

Celesteela A to A-/B+
This guy had its time imo. It still does a good job at checking offense but I feel like it's too easily dealt with. It truly relies on Leech Seed for recovery, and any Stall or Balance can just shut down this thing by simply having recovery on something. Then there's a nice amount of Sub sweepers which Celesteela doesn't like at all. Arceus, Zygarde. Offense teams also pack checks like Yveltal, VC on Ray isn't uncommon and even ones without it can bluff it and force it out. I feel like it gets pressured a bit too much by the playstyle it's supposed to check and stopped cold by any other playstyle to be really worthy of the A rank.

Arceus-Poison B to B+
Arceus-Poison being at B shocked me. It's a solid Xerneas check with it's Z-move being able to OHKO it, and taking less than 50% from Thunder with a Specially Defensive set. It also checks things like Marshadow and loads of defensive pokemon due to its Toxic immunity. It can be tough to break and switching into the Poison Jab / Will-O-Wisp combo doesn't easily go without risk, requiring Rest pokemon like Groudon and Zygarde. It has a nice support movepool in Roar, Stealth Rock, and can be a nice Defogger against Fairyceus and Excadrill setters. It also has a notorious CM set. Toxic immunity helps CM shine and the set still beats Xern, although less reliably, because you need to avoid full para from Thunder. Sludge Bomb poisons are nice, but Judgment can be used as well for more power overall with a Fire move or Earth Power as coverage. It is checked by most Ground types, most notably Groudon, but that shoudn't be a reason to not rank it a bit higher since Poisons can easily whittle non-Rest sets down with good team support.

Sniped all noms except Poisonceus. ffs

Just wanna add some things in corroboration with the Ultra nom -
1- CM Ultra sets up on literally every supportceus form - which is insane given how wisp Supportceus is the most common switch-in whenever you see a DM getting a free turn.
2- SD Ultra is highly underrated on its own. Several sets are tanked to live hits from DM - i.e. 56+ def p don, standard opposing DM etc, and SD ultra fucks up a majority of those calcs. Also the speed jump + dragon typing ends up giving it a free setup more often than not, while also eliminating niche switch-ins and steel/ground resists like Primal-Kyogre, ho oh or weakened Arceus-water forms. Lest we forget the extra moveslot because you're not forced to run automize and rely on a terrible speed tier.
3- An underrated/underused set is CM special ultra rocks, which threatens a lot of the common switch-ins to DM rockers like Steel sweepers, ferrothorn, skarmory etc.

The replays posted above are a good example of CM Ultra's viability. You could actually look at any common supportceus stack, especially the ones relying on darkceus to check DM, and just slap on an ultra.

I'll add more on the celes nom later today. For now, just think about the fact that Skarmory is B+ and Celesteela is A.

 

[MZ]

Ultra Necrozma A- to A
Celesteela A to A-
Steelceus A- to B+
Smeargle B to B+
Poisonceus B to B+
MMY C to B-
Groudon C to D
Jirachi C to Unranked
Dugtrio D to Unranked

Rejected stuff

Pyukumuku D to C
Waterceus A- to B+
Fairyceus A to A+
Xerneas A- to A
Skymin Unranked to D
Dusk Mane A+ to S
Glalie D to Unranked
Solrock D to Unranked
Heatran Unranked to D

Rapid fire general thoughts: Ultra has seen a surge of tour use recently since people figured out that CM is also quite nice and it breaks bulky support arc teams really well, Celesteela just isn't as annoying for balance to handle anymore and Skarm is a much more relevant competitor now, Steelceus just hates how good Groundceus/Zygarde/Dusk Mane are at the moment and really shouldn't be above things like Rockceus as those kinds of good but awkward to fit picks at the moment although it could easily rise again depending on where the meta goes, Smeargle's seen a lot more value with webs and BP getting new life, Poisonceus isn't quite so hard to fit on teams as pretty much the best Xern check anymore, MMY is cool for the same reasons as Ultra Necrozma, Groudon's still fun to mess with Z-sets but just too niche to deserve C rank, and Jirachi and Dugtrio are both still kinda usable but so ridiculously niche we didn't feel a ranking was worth it.
On the rejected side: Pyukumuku really ought to see some kind of relevant usage before we consider it rising imo, Waterceus is just really good for the obvious reason of checking everything and the vote was like 6-1 to keep it where it's at, Fairyceus just doesn't define the meta at an A+ level anymore like it's really good but not an especially higher threat than Groundceus or anything, Xerneas was a close one and it's a good mon but I don't think it's quite so easy to fit on teams and Geomancy's probably gotten worse with more Ekillers and Poisonceus's, Skymin is total trash and believe me I've tried Z-Celebrate it can barely set up, for the dusk mane rejection see the last few times we rejected it, and Glalie and Solrock were both brought up internally but we decided both still have enough of a niche to keep them around.
Also now that we unranked Jirachi and Dugtrio maybe that won't be the main argument for ranking Heatran? Not everything that's mildly usable also deserves to have a rank.

 

[Chloe]

ok i might as well start this now:

b -> b-; you'd only ever use this on psyspam or as a suicide lead. psyspam is an unviable playstyle at the moment and its niche as a sr lead with 180 spa doesn't present itself as sufficient enough to be used over deo-s or a viable rocks lead. seeing this at the same rank as deo-s doesn't feel right.

c -> d / ur; no good stalls run this, no one runs this anymore. if you want to check xern or support arc on stall you run blob or ho-oh / dusk mane, clefable is virtually unviable.

d -> ur; trash, never used on a serious team, compared to the other arc formes in d: electric & fire, it sees no usage and has virtually no niche. if you wanted to check zyg or ray or whatever iceceus supposedly beats 1v1, you wouldnt use this, youd use fairyceus / support xern / other shit.

d -> ur; don't feel as strongly about this one but i have tried to use it, and i feel as of the current meta, there's really no reason to waste your mega slot on this instead of using dusk mane. the only notable niche it has over dusk mane is getting pursuit and no weakness to ghost, and hence has a better matchup vs gar. i don't believe this is enough to justify d rank considering what you're missing out on by running this.

 

[bdov]

Key: Megazard, Pigeons, Catalystic, Chloe, Purple

Scizor-Mega D to UR: yes, yes, no, no, no

Scizor-Mega from D to unranked. In my opinion just one of those set up fodder mons, unless you are running offensive, which then loses to everything anyway. ho-oh is starting to be used more as well, making this mon simply impossible to use.

d -> ur; don't feel as strongly about this one but i have tried to use it, and i feel as of the current meta, there's really no reason to waste your mega slot on this instead of using dusk mane. the only notable niche it has over dusk mane is getting pursuit and no weakness to ghost, and hence has a better matchup vs gar. i don't believe this is enough to justify d rank considering what you're missing out on by running this.

:thinking:

 

[Zenithial]

Skarmory - B+ to A-

I think a mon that needs to be taken under serious consideration, is skarmory. I think it being under celesteela on the vr well is an outrage to me, and even though they're of course different mons they should be on level par. With it's amazing steel/flying typing, this mon can blanket so many physical threats in the game it's unreal. Also having a toxic immunity I think is very nice as a defogger, as it means it's not set on a timer every time it comes in to defog. In addition to it's amazing typing, it has been given an excellent move pool for a support mon, and can fill many different roles because of this. These include being able to set rocks, being able to set spikes, phase with whirlwind, defog, and iron defence to boost it's already great defence. Other interesting sets could include taunt and counter, and with the ability sturdy counter could be useful but these sets are quite rare.

Checks:
- Support Arceus Ground
- Support Arceus-Fairy
- Necrozma - Dusk mane
- Physical Ultra Necrozma
- Marshadow (barring z)
- Ekiller
- Non V-create ddance mega ray sets
- Passive toxic users, Lugia etc

There is probably more but these are just the ones off the top of my head, its toxic immunity and hazard stacking capability just make it very annoying to face anyway, as well being able to check most physical threats.

Calcs:
+2 252 Atk Arceus-Ground Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 117-138 (35 - 41.3%) -- 75.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 101-119 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 152-179 (45.5 - 53.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 90-107 (26.9 - 32%) -- 52% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
and for those concerned about iron defence critting skarm with shadow claw if you use the iron defence set,
+6 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory on a critical hit: 270-318 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, and is able to roost it off after.
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 117-138 (35 - 41.3%) -- 79.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 234-276 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 223-263 (66.7 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 152-179 (45.5 - 53.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

In this meta, dusk mane is predominant and the meta is very supportceus based, which is where skarmory thrives. It's ability to be able to toxic arcs, stack hazards and phase physical set up sweepers is what makes this mon so great. Of course, there are drawbacks to skarm such as being taunt bait and needing pursuit ttar support, or simply using shed shell which makes skarm a little less effective. It's spdef is also obviously very poor, but these flaws can be played around honestly just with good team support. Not much more I can say, if anyone else wants to add anything i'd be grateful as i think some ppl are sleeping on skarm at the moment.

 

[Fardin]

Skarmory - B+ to A-

I think a mon that needs to be taken under serious consideration, is skarmory. I think it being under celesteela on the vr well is an outrage to me, and even though they're of course different mons they should be on level par. With it's amazing steel/flying typing, this mon can blanket so many physical threats in the game it's unreal. Also having a toxic immunity I think is very nice as a defogger, as it means it's not set on a timer every time it comes in to defog. In addition to it's amazing typing, it has been given an excellent move pool for a support mon, and can fill many different roles because of this. These include being able to set rocks, being able to set spikes, phase with whirlwind, defog, and iron defence to boost it's already great defence. Other interesting sets could include taunt and counter, and with the ability sturdy counter could be useful but these sets are quite rare.

Checks:
- Support Arceus Ground
- Support Arceus-Fairy
- Necrozma - Dusk mane
- Physical Ultra Necrozma
- Marshadow (barring z)
- Ekiller
- Non V-create ddance mega ray sets
- Passive toxic users, Lugia etc

There is probably more but these are just the ones off the top of my head, its toxic immunity and hazard stacking capability just make it very annoying to face anyway, as well being able to check most physical threats.

Calcs:
+2 252 Atk Arceus-Ground Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 117-138 (35 - 41.3%) -- 75.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 101-119 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 152-179 (45.5 - 53.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 90-107 (26.9 - 32%) -- 52% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
and for those concerned about iron defence critting skarm with shadow claw if you use the iron defence set,
+6 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory on a critical hit: 270-318 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, and is able to roost it off after.
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 117-138 (35 - 41.3%) -- 79.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 234-276 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 223-263 (66.7 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 152-179 (45.5 - 53.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

In this meta, dusk mane is predominant and the meta is very supportceus based, which is where skarmory thrives. It's ability to be able to toxic arcs, stack hazards and phase physical set up sweepers is what makes this mon so great. Of course, there are drawbacks to skarm such as being taunt bait and needing pursuit ttar support, or simply using shed shell which makes skarm a little less effective. It's spdef is also obviously very poor, but these flaws can be played around honestly just with good team support. Not much more I can say, if anyone else wants to add anything i'd be grateful as i think some ppl are sleeping on skarm at the moment.

Idt I really agree with a-. Although it does check the mons u mentioned, there are some things u left out. Marsh has 91% chance to break thru as long as rocks are down which was one of the main reason why it wasn't that popular in pre usum meta. Even when it comes to dm, I fail to see what it can do. The only thing it does is whirlwind it away, leaving itself damaged. Ig phazing it away that 1 time is enough for some more offensive teams, but it's not much to brag about. At the end of the day, in a 1v1 situation, dm beats skarm (not cele tho). That xern calc is kinda irrelevant cause its max spa, so u can almost always make sure that it has something to hit it with next turn that does more than 50, let it be fblast, thunder/tbolt, or hp fire. If u were referring to scarf, it can't switch in if rocks are down which is another issue. Also let's not forget to mention all these recent baites that kill it very easily, such as special heat wave dm which has been getting popular and those overheat lo arc. Mgar, most mray sets, and dd zyg, the top 3 mons in the current meta shit on it as well, which doesn't help its case. Although it is an annoying mon to deal with, there are many stuff that aren't bothered by it, hence the b+

 

[Zenithial]

Idt I really agree with a-. Although it does check the mons u mentioned, there are some things u left out. Marsh has 91% chance to break thru as long as rocks are down which was one of the main reason why it wasn't that popular in pre usum meta. Even when it comes to dm, I fail to see what it can do. The only thing it does is whirlwind it away, leaving itself damaged. Ig phazing it away that 1 time is enough for some more offensive teams, but it's not much to brag about. At the end of the day, in a 1v1 situation, dm beats skarm (not cele tho). That xern calc is kinda irrelevant cause its max spa, so u can almost always make sure that it has something to hit it with next turn that does more than 50, let it be fblast, thunder/tbolt, or hp fire. If u were referring to scarf, it can't switch in if rocks are down which is another issue. Also let's not forget to mention all these recent baites that kill it very easily, such as special heat wave dm which has been getting popular and those overheat lo arc. Mgar, most mray sets, and dd zyg, the top 3 mons in the current meta shit on it as well, which doesn't help its case. Although it is an annoying mon to deal with, there are many stuff that aren't bothered by it, hence the b+

yeah I totally get the things you're saying, just want to clarify one or two things. The iron defence set does pp stall dusk mane, so in that case skarmory can beat dusk mane 1v1, the iron defence set also pp stalls substitute ekiller if you're worried about that not being able to phase that with whirlwind. Of course it's not ideal to have your mon practically out of pp to beat a mon, but if you just want a mon to specifically beat mane, the iron defence set can do it. Crits aren't really an issue either as sunsteel only has 8 pp, and of course it's immune to eq, or if they run photon that also only has 8 pp. If you are referring to the ww set, while yes next time it comes in on mane it can kill with z, this might not be a too bad trade off for the team as other mons such as mega sableye and zygarde can come in afterwards and kill/phase mane. In addition, either doubling to skarm predicting mane isn't too difficult as well as it has a nice toxic immunity people want to tale advantage of, which allows you to either roost back up or lay spikes to try and hurt mane next time it switches in. Skarm can also of course come in on other mons to roost or even get lucky with the ww and it whirlwinds to a mon which skarmory can roost on. Personally i've never had too much trouble beating dusk mane with ww and iron defence skarm, and as such i would recommend usage. As for xern yes i was just referring to the scarfs set as coverage has decreased a lot on the scarf set, with moves like aroma and the new introduction of defog becoming common. It might also run thunder/tbolt as a last move of course, but i've seen thunder wave and toxic as well which skarm can come in on. Cele does beat 1v1 but isn't switching into to mane, a +4 z kills cele and it can't find a way to get leech off so it cannot just sub protect spam. Unless there's another set i'm not thinking of, like iron defence cele which probably isn't too good lol, and of which skarm can ditto. Just mostly wanted to just start some controversy and get forum a little more active.

 

[HunterStorm]

1- Arceus-Ghost - B+ to B
Ever since Marsh release, this mon has just kind of 'been there'. It hasn't seen any success lately and is increasingly underwhelming in terms of defensive utility. The rise of Yveltal viability has hurt it furthermore, and while it theoretically provides SE damage vs DM, Darkceus is almost always going to be better due to great matchup vs Ultra forms as well. Its utility as a spinblocker on webs isn't as exclusive as it was, either, as several other spinblockers like dawn-wings into Ultra/Z Marsh/Lunala have emerged, and I don't believe just being an offensive spinblocker for webs warrants it being B+ in the first place. SD variants can do absolutely nothing about Marsh, rocker ghostceus is usually outclassed and CM ghostceus is just really underwhelming at this point. I just don't see why this should be high B ranks anymore, and I believe its drastic drop in usage and impact lately is evidence of the same.



2- Lunala - B- to B
Along with being one of the most potent balance/stall breakers in the game with Z moongeist-psyshock variants, Lunala now has the benefit of running defog and consistently walling one of the scariest offensive combination in the game; the DM-Ultra phenomenon. It acts as a brilliant blanket check for balance along with the utility of having a decent speed tier, and unlike Lugia, is a very threatening offensive presence at the same time. Access to will-o-wisp and reliable recovery only corroborates its viability as a reliable wall. It also gets the option of toxic stalling for teams that have soft-checks for DM packed, as it already outspeeds and 2hko's while tanking +2 Z hits vs DM. Besides hard walling DM, Lunala has the liberty of functioning much like Lugia does, while having access to a far superior offensive presence and tanking hits from a majority of the meta.

+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 144 HP / 164 Def Shadow Shield Lunala: 382-450 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 198-234 (59.1 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 144 HP / 164 Def Shadow Shield Lunala: 346-408 (76.7 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala in Heavy Rain: 179-211 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala in Harsh Sunshine: 212-249 (47 - 55.2%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO


Note - all of the defensive calcs besides DM are guaranteed to keep you in Shadow Shield range while toxic stalling.


On the other hand, Lunala provides for one of the scariest wallbreaking sets in the meta with CM Z variations, which is almost certain to threaten any stall not specifically prepared for it.

+1 252+ SpA Lunala Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 297-351 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Lunala Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 364-432 (90.3 - 107.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Lunala Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala: 192-228 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO

Special mentions - Z Hypno, Tailwind CM Lunala, Scarf Lunala, Specs Lunala

3- Lugia - B+ to B

Lugia still happens to be one of the better defensive walls in the game, but I believe its viability ranking at the present moment is in spite of some ground realities. Firstly, AG has become vastly more status based, making Lugia that much harder to function with. Its reliance on hazard control still is necessary, and even though it gets access to defog, it doesn't efficiently run defog (missing out on Substitute/offensive move making it taunt/trap bait). Moreover, even heavy stall teams would sympathize to the fact that switching Lugia in and out efficiently is a major risk, due to the random toxic users breaking Multiscale and threatening your teams longevity. It just ends up requiring too much support in the present meta, and is no more the solid, reliable wall that it used to be. A drop is definitely due for this mon.

4- Kyogre - C to B-

Base Kyogre has seen a steady rise in usage due to several teams just being vastly under-prepared for it. The previous limitations that it had vs Primal Groudon/Mega Rayquaza still exist, but due to a large shift towards Supportceus, those flaws have been largely easier to deal with. The immediate OHKO nuke threat of water spout is a scary prospect, and is now supported by the recent usage of Specs Kyogre. While this mon still possesses some obvious flaws, I think it does deserve some more recognizance for its growing niche in the present metagame.

 

[Thimo]

Xerneas A- to A
This is the only thing I'm gonna nom this time. I am convinced Xerneas is way better than A- and deserves A. It honestly lacks reliable checks, nearly everything that calls itself a check is flawed as a Xerneas check. It only has 2 things, that reliably check it pretty much all the time. These 2 are Specially Defensive Dusk Mane and Magearna. They're not too common and the former can be PP stalled. Other than these, every Xerneas check is flawed and can be beaten in a very simply way. Roar Groudon doesn't beat Ingrain and does get chipped over time, Arceus-Poison doesn't beat Psyshock/Psychic or Z-Geo and Your average offensive Dusk-Mane gets chipped into +2 Moonblast range after a single Moonblast. What makes Xerneas good is the fact that can boost on a large amount of pokemon, and then it just wins or removes a large portion of the team. The amount of moves it can run on a simple Geomancy set is absurd. You can opt for coverage: Thunder, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Psyshock; and you can opt for support: Ingrain, Substitute, Defog, Aromatherapy. You can combine literally any of these moves with Moonblast and Geomancy and your Xerneas is alright. The amount of teams that just straight up drop to a well played Xerneas nowadays is high. Let's not forget to mention that most checks are easily removed by Gothitelle, Gengar and Dugtrio, or overwhelmed by stacking multiple Xerneas. Putting dual screens support on a Xerneas team makes it even harder to beat, allowing for easier setup, and harder revenge killing. GeoXern isn't the only Xern. It has Scarf, Specs, Z-Geo, Defensive as sets. This makes dealing with Xern hard as you might have to guess sets or face bluffs, i.e. Taunting a ScarfXern with Yveltal thinking it was Geo, or not taunting on the Geo thinking it was Scarf. The support this thing provides is also really scary. It has Defog and Aromatherapy. Both of which help the entirety of the team. All in all, I believe Xerneas should be A and not A- because of its lack of reliable checks, its versatility, and its access to team support.

 

[dom]

why the fuck is solrock the same rank as necrozma-dawn wings? dawn wings necrozma might be outclassed as hell and generally not that good, but it has distinctions and can turn into the super good one with shit like cm so thats neat. c rank imo, where quag is. i mean its prolly better than quag too, but whatever.

 

[GRNBLN]

Xerneas A- to A
This is the only thing I'm gonna nom this time. I am convinced Xerneas is way better than A- and deserves A. It honestly lacks reliable checks, nearly everything that calls itself a check is flawed as a Xerneas check. It only has 2 things, that reliably check it pretty much all the time. These 2 are Specially Defensive Dusk Mane and Magearna. They're not too common and the former can be PP stalled. Other than these, every Xerneas check is flawed and can be beaten in a very simply way. Roar Groudon doesn't beat Ingrain and does get chipped over time, Arceus-Poison doesn't beat Psyshock/Psychic or Z-Geo and Your average offensive Dusk-Mane gets chipped into +2 Moonblast range after a single Moonblast. What makes Xerneas good is the fact that can boost on a large amount of pokemon, and then it just wins or removes a large portion of the team. The amount of moves it can run on a simple Geomancy set is absurd. You can opt for coverage: Thunder, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Psyshock; and you can opt for support: Ingrain, Substitute, Defog, Aromatherapy. You can combine literally any of these moves with Moonblast and Geomancy and your Xerneas is alright. The amount of teams that just straight up drop to a well played Xerneas nowadays is high. Let's not forget to mention that most checks are easily removed by Gothitelle, Gengar and Dugtrio, or overwhelmed by stacking multiple Xerneas. Putting dual screens support on a Xerneas team makes it even harder to beat, allowing for easier setup, and harder revenge killing. GeoXern isn't the only Xern. It has Scarf, Specs, Z-Geo, Defensive as sets. This makes dealing with Xern hard as you might have to guess sets or face bluffs, i.e. Taunting a ScarfXern with Yveltal thinking it was Geo, or not taunting on the Geo thinking it was Scarf. The support this thing provides is also really scary. It has Defog and Aromatherapy. Both of which help the entirety of the team. All in all, I believe Xerneas should be A and not A- because of its lack of reliable checks, its versatility, and its access to team support.

While I do agree that Xerneas is underrated rn, I never seen a Xern beat poisonceus at reasonable health unless some para full para or crit Psychic bs. Tho Arceus Poison is threatend nowadays by DualDance Dusk-Mane if no will o wisp but even if, staying in could be risky due to CM Ultra or a plain Photon Geyser from SD Ultra, I still think its close to Magearna level at checking Xerneas. Regarding (specially defensive) Dusk-Mane as a check its is still a mayor problem to Xern especially with Solgalium-Z it can drop Xern or prevent Goth from trapping. I think the biggest reason Xern is good rn is bc since Dusk Mane noone really expects much Xerneas anymore so teams that dont carry a SpDef dusk mane often times are not really prepared for it.