Resource USUM AG Viability Rankings

[Deep Sea Sapphire]

Tapu Lele D to B- I do not say this for the psyspam but for the scarf tapu lele, using it in a good team she can be a great revenge killer giving 2 htko after the stealth rock with psychic, psyshock or moonblast in most of the meta game unless it is resisted (things like ferrothorn or necrozma dusk manes) it can still load focus blast for arceus steel or aromatherapy to have something better against stalls

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 891-1048 (124.7 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 390-460 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (I've never seen blissey full def but there it is)


252+ SpA Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Arceus-Steel: 238-280 (53.6 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (try predict that)

Scarf Lele manages to be a great against offensive teams since he can give Htko in Ultra Necroz, Mega Rayquaza, Marshadow and 2 htko in ekiller arceus and the psychic terrain protects him from extreme speeds

252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 239-283 (84.7 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 263-309 (93.2 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 239-283 (84.7 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (only adamant life orb +stealth rock damage can ko lele)

Of course she alone does not take care of a team (normally ends) for that we need supports I currently like to use it along with balance team, along with zygarde 100%, bulk necrozma dm along with a arceus that forces the ultra form of necrozma like calm mind arc

I do not know if it's a useful info but I've reached 1994 Elo top 3 at the time using lele scarf without Psyspam

 

[Geysers]

Tapu Lele D to B- I do not say this for the psyspam but for the scarf tapu lele, using it in a good team she can be a great revenge killer giving 2 htko after the stealth rock with psychic, psyshock or moonblast in most of the meta game unless it is resisted (things like ferrothorn or necrozma dusk manes) it can still load focus blast for arceus steel or aromatherapy to have something better against stalls

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 891-1048 (124.7 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 390-460 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (I've never seen blissey full def but there it is)


252+ SpA Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Arceus-Steel: 238-280 (53.6 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (try predict that)

Scarf Lele manages to be a great against offensive teams since he can give Htko in Ultra Necroz, Mega Rayquaza, Marshadow and 2 htko in ekiller arceus and the psychic terrain protects him from extreme speeds

252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 239-283 (84.7 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 263-309 (93.2 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 239-283 (84.7 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (only adamant life orb +stealth rock damage can ko lele)

Of course she alone does not take care of a team (normally ends) for that we need supports I currently like to use it along with balance team, along with zygarde 100%, bulk necrozma dm along with a arceus that forces the ultra form of necrozma like calm mind arc

I do not know if it's a useful info but I've reached 1994 Elo top 3 at the time using lele scarf without Psyspam

I personally have suffered a lot at the hand of that scarf lele team. I do think B- might be a bit too far, but it’s a nasty revenge killer that totally shuts down ultra necrozma and band ray. Scarf lele is, however significantly hampered by the fact that its STABs are both resisted by Dusk Mane, which can come in on it with impunity and then boost as it switches out. Additionally, ferro walls this thing pretty well, provided you can predict a psyshock or moonblast. I think perhaps C would be a good rank for lele. I wouldn’t object to it remaining at D, but I definitely think that B- is too high. There are my two cents.

 

[Bread Sandwich]

Tapu Lele D to B- I do not say this for the psyspam but for the scarf tapu lele, using it in a good team she can be a great revenge killer giving 2 htko after the stealth rock with psychic, psyshock or moonblast in most of the meta game unless it is resisted (things like ferrothorn or necrozma dusk manes) it can still load focus blast for arceus steel or aromatherapy to have something better against stalls

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 891-1048 (124.7 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 390-460 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (I've never seen blissey full def but there it is)


252+ SpA Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Arceus-Steel: 238-280 (53.6 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (try predict that)

Scarf Lele manages to be a great against offensive teams since he can give Htko in Ultra Necroz, Mega Rayquaza, Marshadow and 2 htko in ekiller arceus and the psychic terrain protects him from extreme speeds

252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 239-283 (84.7 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 263-309 (93.2 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 239-283 (84.7 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (only adamant life orb +stealth rock damage can ko lele)

Of course she alone does not take care of a team (normally ends) for that we need supports I currently like to use it along with balance team, along with zygarde 100%, bulk necrozma dm along with a arceus that forces the ultra form of necrozma like calm mind arc

I do not know if it's a useful info but I've reached 1994 Elo top 3 at the time using lele scarf without Psyspam

People seriously don't understand how good scarf lele is, It can deal more damage than scarf xern can with the added benefit of being immune to priority, it is pretty frail but that really isn't a problem for it. People even underestimate lele's offensive abilities on psyspam only to have their yveltal okhod on a switchin. However I honestly don't believe this merits such an increase in ranking. Maybe c would be more reasonable lele doesn't have the same impact on the meta as pokemon like blissey and deo speed but it is better than every other d ranked mon

Also specs lele is and incredibly powerful wallbreaker


Terrain extender lele is also very good for psyspam even though usually it doesn't do much on it's own it still can deal a ton of damage with psychic and Moonblast


In conclusion lele is underrated but not really b- rank material

 

[velvet]

People seriously don't understand how good scarf lele is, It can deal more damage than scarf xern can with the added benefit of being immune to priority, it is pretty frail but that really isn't a problem for it. People even underestimate lele's offensive abilities on psyspam only to have their yveltal okhod on a switchin. However I honestly don't believe this merits such an increase in ranking. Maybe c would be more reasonable lele doesn't have the same impact on the meta as pokemon like blissey and deo speed but it is better than every other d ranked mon

Also specs lele is and incredibly powerful wallbreaker


Terrain extender lele is also very good for psyspam even though usually it doesn't do much on it's own it still can deal a ton of damage with psychic and Moonblast


In conclusion lele is underrated but not really b- rank material

Specs lele isn’t particularly useful outside of psy spam due to the fact that it really doesn’t have any use besides being a switchin for the sake of the terrain to be out for the deos and/or other Pokémon to come out to basically set up and do damage to the opponent. I have tried scarf/specs lele myself and it leaves it vulnerable if used incorrectly and it wouldn’t be able to stop a lead smeargle from setting up hazards, that is why I don’t see it being any more useful as terrain extender, and even then I still find terrain extender more convenient due to extending, well, its terrain.

Anyways,

B+ ~ B-

I would like to demote rockceus front B+ to B- mostly because it hasn’t been getting as much usage in the current meta as compared to early USUM or last gen. This is due to the fact it is prone to more weaknesses this gen compared the previous and with Dusk mane being a huge part of the meta now, I don’t see it performing well except from it being a check to ho-oh really. It has its good part of being good to switch in on ho-oh, yveltal, and vivillon if carrying perish song, but has a harder time dealing with mons like zygarde, dusk mane, groundceus, etc. You’d have to play around with the current meta, but it proves difficult mostly due to its typing and the more prevalent Pokémon now in the meta are actually Pokémon of the typing it is weak against. It is still a good Arceus form, just not as good as it was in the previous gen or pre marsh even which is why I believe rockceus is not suited to be B+ rank.

B- ~ B

I believe that deo should be ranked up a rank higher due to it being used in most HO teams now and even for psy spam teams as part of its core. I would rank deo-a higher but really it’s only thing that makes it useful is with psy spam sadly, but with deo-s you can use it on your daily basic HO teams on ladder. While it being a lead setter for the team it also has other uses such as setting screens to support its own team for any future set up. I believe that deo-s has always been part of the meta as a way to provide the support to the other party members in the team, which is why I think it should be ranked B in the list.

 

[Geysers]

Well I want to say something. Rank Lugia up to B+ or A-. Like seriously. I am in the top 500 and used it several times, so umm here is some reasons why. 1: It is bulky as heck and has Multiscale. Like seriously. Because of that, it can take 3 or 4 unboosted fire punches from Primal Groudon, doesn't struggle all that much with mega Rayquaza (unless it gets hit with stealth rock and the Mega Rayquaza has swords dance, then it's in trouble, but swords dance Mega Rayquaza is rare), can take super effective hits well, even from stuff like Marshadow, 4 or 5 thunders from Primal Kyogre, A shadow ball from mega Gengar, and much more. 2: Phasing. Seriously. This fact combined with the first kills a ton of sweeping attempts (especially with Xerneas since it can only set up safely once), makes it not completely helpless vs Dusk Mane Necrozma, make the opponent swap into something bad vs it, can ruin baton pass teams (yes, Espeon too because dragon tail), and more that I may not even know (boy, yes I'd be more than happy to see more stuff on what phasing with Lugia is capable of.) 3: Toxic. This fact combined with the first one can really lead to some hectic trolling if Dusk Mane Necrozma has been defeated. Because of this, it easily can foil Primal Groudon (and phase it if it sets up), and it may switch, but all that means is another Pokémon gets poisoned! This fact can also be helpful against stuff like Ultra Necrozma, Mega Rayquaza (again, can phase it if it sets up), Primal Kyogre, possibly Zygarde complete, and more. 4: It's typing. The Psychic part doesn't matter all that much at all. It's the flying typing that makes this point valid. Because of the flying typing, it is immune to Precicipe (or however you spell it), blades, Marshadow's close combat... OK the psychic typing is useful a little bit. Marshadow's close combat is 4X not very effective (which can lead to crazy shenanigans), and other stuff. As for downsides, I can only think of 2. 1: Taunt almost completely shuts it down. So Yveltal is free to annoy the heck out of Lugia. 2: Doesn't do well against steel types at all. This one is harmful against Dusk Mane Necrozma, but there is no other Pokemon that is used a whole bunch that can take advantage of this. If there is anything I missed, I'd be more than happy to hear it!

Daily reminder that lugia is weak af to toxic. Also, getting to top 500 isn’t hard. People have done it using OU teams, and I’ve managed to get to 5th using koko. The fact that a mon took you to top 500 is not sufficient to be a reason to rank it up. Another point: yveltal and dusk mane are two of the most common pokemon in the tier. A mon incapable of putting in work against them inevitably has its usefulness drastically blunted. Lugia’s psychic typing doesn’t help it one bit except that it makes it marginally harder for dusk mane or ultra necrozma to kill it. It already resists cc from marsh, so having extra resistance to that is useless. All it does is make lugia easier to kill using moves like spectral thief and dark pulse. Your point that lugia can be good against bp is almost entirely moot. Virtually all good baton pass teams will have a pokemon with ingrain, rendering lugia dead weight. Dragon tail hitting espeon is also moot, since by the time espeon comes out, it’ll probably be behind a sub, and with enough defense boosts to make your dtail not break their sub. Also, xynixpass runs mr mime, which has immunity to both your phasing moves, and toxic if it’s behind a sub.

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 116-137 (27.8 - 32.9%) -- 81% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
While you brought this calc up as evidence of lugia’s usefulness, Lugia is virtually incapable of damaging pogre back. Also, if you take one thunder, you inevitably take more, since multiscale’s been broken.
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 232-274 (55.7 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Oh, looks like Lugia actually gets 3hkoed, unless you’re spamming roost. RIP

Anyway, I oppose this nomination, as I hope I’ve made clear.

Edit: I’m dumb, forgot lugia ran whirlwind over roar. My point still stands (sorta).

 

[Bread Sandwich]

Also, xynixpass runs mr mime, which has immunity to both your phasing moves, and toxic if it’s behind a sub.


252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 116-137 (27.8 - 32.9%) -- 81% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
While you brought this calc up as evidence of lugia’s usefulness, Lugia is virtually incapable of damaging pogre back. Also, if you take one thunder, you inevitably take more, since multiscale’s been broken.
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 232-274 (55.7 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Oh, looks like Lugia actually gets 3hkoed, unless you’re spamming roost. RIP

Mr mime is not immune to whirlwind which is Lugia's phrasing move of choice

But lugia doesn't beat full baton pass either way but it does beat evopass and smashpass teams if played correctly

also the way you play lugia is you use toxic and spam roost and if you outspeed you basically are guaranteed to get back to Multiscale so if you play like that lugia does beat kyogre by using toxic then spamming roost


I also disagree with the nom but I am just pointing out that a bunch of your points are incorrect

 

[Icemaster]

The issue with lugia really is how hard it is to build into a team by virtue of the fact that it is extremely hard to build with, as while it may stall some top threats - Primal Groudon, Zygarde, Xerneas, Rayquaza, Ultra Necrozma, so many other top threats just cleave it half, for example Necrozma Dusk Mane, Calm Mind Kyogres, Lunala, Yveltal. It requires support from team mates to beat these mons.

However, the two biggest issues for Lugia are stealth rocks and status which are pretty much omnipresent in the meta. Many of the pokemon above which it could stall out often carry status like toxic or will-o-wisp which is enough to cripple it for the game as Multiscale is pretty much essential. For this reason Lugia, at least in my opinion, is best kept on stall where it gets the support it requires: hazards support and clerical support. If you do run Lugia without the proper support, you'll often find it do very little in some games.

Also Gothitelle and Gengar Mega's existence alone hurt this mon a lot, it is pretty much useless in games where these are on the opposing team. As such, I think Lugia is fine where it is at B+, as it is still a good mon being a nice toxic dispenser and the most reliable check to MRay as jerry hillenberg said (which I agree with), provided you do have the hazards control.

 

[pulsar512b]

Ah, one more thing. If I continue to get comments that haven't been mentioned yet about Lugia that is bad, I will forget about wanting to rank up Lugia. But I mean, all Pokemon have their downsides.

Dawn-Wings beats it, lunala beats it, marshadow beats it, yveltal beats it, what more?

So here's another (possibly dumb) nom.

I would like to refer everyone to my previous nom for trick room. I now feel that all of the pokemon i nommed, with the single exception of staka, probably shouldn't be changed without more consideration. Nevertheless, it does clearly illustrate the power of TR as a playstyle. Here's an updated list of abusers and setters:

Abusers: Mega Mawile, Pogre, (normal) Kyogre, Stakataka, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Marowak-Alola, basically anything hard hitting and slow
Setters: Uxie, Stakataka, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, all arceus types

The two additions to ubers are Mega Mawile and Marowak-Alola.
Marowak alola is taken from Nehtri's tr team in team bazaar.
Mega Mawile is also present on Nehtri's team, but I first encountered and used it on AnythingGoesLegend's trick room team.
The two pokemon i'd like to nom are Stakataka, uxie, and mega mawile, all to D.
Stakataka's been explained very well by AGL already, so I need say no more.
Uxie is quite bulky and can set up rocks, trick room, and memento/u-turn out. It can also viably run a mental herb, which helps a lot.
Mega Mawile's only a viable pick for trick room, since otherwise literally every other mega's better. But for trick room, it's honestly the only viable mega. It's quite powerful in trick room, destroying yveltal, mega-rayquaza, and arceus-dark. If it gets a swords dance up, god help you. It has sucker punch for mindgames outside trick room, which gives quite a lot of utility. It's also a fabulous counter to yveltal:
+2 252+ Atk Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 180+ Def Yveltal: 440-522 (96.7 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mawile-Mega: 129-152 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
EDIT: Replays for the people:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-904213469https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-904215646https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-904201936

 

[Skarpherim]

looks like it's about that time to do some noms from UR to D that nobody wants

Cloyster UR to D

Note: I talk a lot about Scolipede because Cloyster has an extremely similar role as a HO lead

Set

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rapid Spin / Spikes / Liquidation.

Some random thoughts about Cloyster

I'm not sure if Cloyster was taken off the VR for some reason or if it was just never on it but, it's p much the equivalent to Scoli in terms of a tspike/spike lead. Taunters like Yveltal and Mgar don't fair well vs Cloyster and shell smash + icicle spear is an alright way to stop people from repeatedly defogging. Personally I think Cloyster is a little nicer than Scolipede because of the fact that Scoli typically needs to run mental herb so it can't get taunted, meaning that it can get OHKO'd (without getting a chance to move.. unless you run protect.. which is a wasted move slot) by things like +speed Mray and U-Necro, while also dying in 1 hit to, say, PDon. It's also worth noting that Cloyster has the option to run Rapid Spin, which can be nice. I also think Scoli is kinda setup bait but.. maybe that's just me. Some negatives of running Cloyster instead of Scoli are: way less speed until you smash, not having access to endeavor, which Scolipede has the option to run if you're running sash, and a worse MU vs Deo-S leads. Regardless of which Toxic Spike lead you think is better, I think Cloyster should be added to D Rank.

Darkrai UR to D

Set

Darkrai @ Leftovers / Wide Lens / Poisonium Z
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hypnosis
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute / Sludge Bomb.

Some random thoughts about Darkrai

I'm not gonna heavily push this but like, have u ever been 6-0d by Darkrai? I understand the "hitting hypno is all luck based" argument, but I just feel like it's very easy for rai to get the luck and win. You have to take in account for hitting 60% hypno, possible 3 sleep turns, and 20% flinches from dark pulse, which can all fuck the opponent over and lose to "hax". I feel like everybody's forgotten about this nightmare and never even consider prepping for it these days. In a meta that neglects the use of priority (outside of HO) I can see rai being a massive threat to most balance and stall teams. And yes, Ik rai isn't that great but I think D rank is pretty reasonable.

Rotom-Wash UR to D

Set

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 12 Speed
- Toxic
- Defog
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split.

Some random thoughts about Rotom-Wash

The next Solrock? I think I can make a bullet point list to describe what Rotom-W does
- Checks rocks PDon pretty freaking well, 189 speed means it'll defog 2nd vs mixed rocks and vs Spd DM
- Ho-Oh check, can just switch in and volt into MRay/Pogre or poison it
- Insanely good Groundceus check, MGar/MRay balances typically struggle vs Groundceus if no Cele or Ho-Oh, Rotom-W is nice for those teams
- Soft Checks MRay if no Draco Meteor or Outrage
- Slow Volt user and defogger that can't get trapped.

Some Rotom-Wash Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 122-144 (40.2 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 141-167 (46.5 - 55.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Groudon-Primal Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash in Harsh Sunshine: 141-166 (46.5 - 54.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 111-131 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery.

mz edit: fixed the post
skarph edit: appreciate u

 

[GRNBLN]

looks like it's about that time to do some noms from UR to D that nobody wants

Cloyster UR to D

Note: I talk a lot about Scolipede because Cloyster has an extremely similar role as a HO lead

Set

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rapid Spin / Spikes / Liquidation.

Some random thoughts about Cloyster

I'm not sure if Cloyster was taken off the VR for some reason or if it was just never on it but, it's p much the equivalent to Scoli in terms of a tspike/spike lead. Taunters like Yveltal and Mgar don't fair well vs Cloyster and shell smash + icicle spear is an alright way to stop people from repeatedly defogging. Personally I think Cloyster is a little nicer than Scolipede because of the fact that Scoli typically needs to run mental herb so it can't get taunted, meaning that it can get OHKO'd (without getting a chance to move.. unless you run protect.. which is a wasted move slot) by things like +speed Mray and U-Necro, while also dying in 1 hit to, say, PDon. It's also worth noting that Cloyster has the option to run Rapid Spin, which can be nice. I also think Scoli is kinda setup bait but.. maybe that's just me. Some negatives of running Cloyster instead of Scoli are: way less speed until you smash, not having access to endeavor, which Scolipede has the option to run if you're running sash, and a worse MU vs Deo-S leads. Regardless of which Toxic Spike lead you think is better, I think Cloyster should be added to D Rank.

Darkrai UR to D

Set

Darkrai @ Leftovers / Wide Lens / Poisonium Z
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hypnosis
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute / Sludge Bomb.

Some random thoughts about Darkrai

I'm not gonna heavily push this but like, have u ever been 6-0d by Darkrai? I understand the "hitting hypno is all luck based" argument, but I just feel like it's very easy for rai to get the luck and win. You have to take in account for hitting 60% hypno, possible 3 sleep turns, and 20% flinches from dark pulse, which can all fuck the opponent over and lose to "hax". I feel like everybody's forgotten about this nightmare and never even consider prepping for it these days. In a meta that neglects the use of priority (outside of HO) I can see rai being a massive threat to most balance and stall teams. And yes, Ik rai isn't that great but I think D rank is pretty reasonable.

Rotom-Wash UR to D

Set

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 12 Speed
- Toxic
- Defog
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split.

Some random thoughts about Rotom-Wash

The next Solrock? I think I can make a bullet point list to describe what Rotom-W does
- Checks rocks PDon pretty freaking well, 189 speed means it'll defog 2nd vs mixed rocks and vs Spd DM
- Ho-Oh check, can just switch in and volt into MRay/Pogre or poison it
- Insanely good Groundceus check, MGar/MRay balances typically struggle vs Groundceus if no Cele or Ho-Oh, Rotom-W is nice for those teams
- Soft Checks MRay if no Draco Meteor or Outrage
- Slow Volt user and defogger that can't get trapped.

Some Rotom-Wash Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 122-144 (40.2 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 141-167 (46.5 - 55.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Groudon-Primal Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash in Harsh Sunshine: 141-166 (46.5 - 54.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 111-131 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery.

mz edit: fixed the post
skarph edit: appreciate u

I think one should also mention that lead Cloyster can also run Overcoat to not get killed / get the sash broken by TTars Sandstorm but more importantly being immune to Spore further helping to counter lead an opposing Smeargle. Obviously you lose out on always hitting 5 Icicle Spears but it can help sometimes.

Imo Cloyster actually has the better/on of the best match-ups vs a Deo-s lead: 1st Turn Icicle spear to break the sash and bring them down to reasonable low health, 2nd+ Turn Rapid Spin until they die / maybe predict a switch to a spin blocker or try to Shell Smash / T-Spike / Kill once you are not taunted anymore. It has worse MU vs Defog Arceus like Water or Poisonceus since the resist of Icicle Spear or Wisping it and Poisonceus (and Gengar) removing TSpikes on switch in.

 

[Bread Sandwich]

I have been thinking about doing this nom for a while and I have finally decided to do it

Arceus-Poison A- -> b+/b

Arceus poison isn't good enough for a- in my opinion. This mon is mainly put on teams to patch up weaknesses to fairies but really fails at it's job

This mon is outclassed by pdon and necrozma dm at checking fairy types and as a will o wisper it is outclassed by other arceus forms

Magnemite ur -> D

The Set

SWAGnemite (Magnemite) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 116 Def / 236 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recycle
- Toxic
- Volt Switch
- Protect

This nom may seem crazy but there is very good reasoning behind it.
This mon can Counter Mega Rayquaza as long as you can keep rocks up
The biggest drawback of using this set is that it is basically useless if you there are rocks on your side so you need to run it with plenty of hazard removal
Volt switch makes it immune to trapping
Used in finals of major tours

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-896455455 Om Grand slam megazard vs haylighter
I am pretty sure it was used in finals of the anything goes open but I can't find the replay

 

[Kaptain Kappa]

I would like to nominate Serperior for C rank.

Tren-Tren Vilú (Serperior) @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Glare

I believe that Serperior has enough tools to have the small niche of a SubSeeder in the AG tier. Movesets like this have always been very infamous, and, given a free turn of setup, they are capable of wrecking havoc in entire teams.

First of all, Grass typing in conjunction to access to Leech Seed allows it to switch freely into smeargle carrying Spore, and put a timer on its potential BP recipient later on with seed. Second, access to Glare, which spreads paralysis against potential switch-ins, such as MRay, Necrozma, and even ground types such as groudon and zygarde. Given Serperior's ability to force switches thanks to seed, it can also paralyze mon after mon with ease. Of course, paralysis comes with the added bonus of a 25% chance of a free turn, and Serp is able to gain and abuse free turns extremely well in a similar vein to vivillion thanks to both the subseed combo, and contrary leaf storm. Speaking of Contrary, this is another of Serperior's greatest strenghts. It gives Serp a nasty plot boost after using a 120 base power STAB, and, in other cases, a speed boost if the opponent sets up a sticky web, and an evasion boost if you switch into defog, which you should try to always predict against passive pokemon, because, with +1 in evasion and paralysis, the opponent has a mere 56,25% chance of him hitting a 100 accuracy move.

Now, Serp still has a lot of weaknesses. Leaf Storm, its only viable attack, only has 8 PP. The stats across the board are not impressive at all, aside from its speed (Which is enough to outspeed and paralyze MRay as a last resort), its low defenses and grass typing mean that it will get OHKO'd by any super effective move, and 2HKO by any other neutral, decently powerful attack, so it can only switch into defensive pokemon, and very few offensive ones (though a crucial example is Zygarde), and Marshadow just bypasses substitute and steals snake's contrary boosts. And the final con of using serperior, is, of course, that paralysis is not 100% consistent.

I've been laddering recently with a team centered around parahax, with serperior as one of the main paralyzers and also an abuser, to a lesser degree, and I am now convinced that paralysis is completely broken

 

[Silent Mobius]

Sup everyone. There are a few things I would like to propose regarding viability:

Darkrai UR to D:
I agree with Skarph on this one. Just because darkrai no longer has 80 accuracy dark void's anymore and is rarely used, does not mean that it is not viable in the usm meta game. Still boasting one of the speediest nasty plot's in the game, good coverage in sludge bomb, focus blast, ice beam and thunder, it can still rekt havoc on teams. Is the accuracy of hypnosis a problem? Np, just slap on wide lens, pass accuracy( smeargle gets hone claws to do that), or provide gravity support. If sleep inducing is not your thing, set up with sub, disable, nasty plot, dark pulse, as many arceus in this game run mono attacking sets--fairy, rock, dark, etc. It also gets nifty moves like taunt, which could shut down stall. Think of this mon as hypno gar--inconsistent, but very dangerous when it works.

Possible Sets:
Darkrai @ Leftovers
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Disable
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute

Darkrai @ Psychium Z
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hypnosis
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Bomb

Darkrai @ Leftovers
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hypnosis
- taunt
- Substitute

Rotom-Wash UR to D

I have used this pokemon myself and can say it is pretty solid all-round. While not amazing, it is definitely D worthy and works with the right support. In addition to the points skarph has noted, this mon also gets access to nifty moves such as thunder wave, wisp and confide. Being able to check two big threats in cm steel and cm ground is a nice luxury to have.

Magnemite UR to D

What Silent Mobius? Are you really attempting to rank a level one mon? Have you lost your mind? Yes and no. I back AGL on this one. Along with Lugia, this is arguably the best mega ray counter in the game( sry stakhatta, it an take multiple v-creates and you can't). Keep rocks off the field and freely switch this mon into mega ray with no worries. Many Mega Ray run life orb, so switching in and stalling chip it until it meets it's ultimate demise. Stall with protect and berry juice to run down its pp. In addition to checking mega ray, this mon can easily beat many offensive threats one on one-- marshadow, swords dance ghost, xerneas, primal kyogre, etc. Just toxic and stall. This mon has won at least 4 battles in the last two big tours. Things to be wary of: mag will struggle vs sub mons, gets killed by mgb and sunsteel strike and is completely useless once it loses its sash via whirlwind, status, etc.That being said, provide it with the right support and it is a very solid mon and worthy of D rank.

Replays to support my argument:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-868750000 2019 AG Open Finals
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-863290006 2019 AG Open Quarters
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-864959294 2019 AG Open Semis
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-905347349 2019 Spring Seasonal

Last but not least:

Gastrodon UR to D

My Pet Slug (Gastrodon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm/Careful Nature
- Confide
- Earth Power/Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic

Some might look at this mon as a poor-man's chansey/blissey, which is true to an extent. However, this mon has a few niches which sets it apart:
- With the threat of cm spout kyogre or choice specs kyogre running through ferro and the blobs( especially blissey ), being completely immune to water is a very nice ability.
- Stab Earth Power/Earthquake does not make it complete set up bait, hitting pdon, arceus steel, arceus poison and offensive necrozma for solid damage
- Besides Kyogre, this mon checks cm arceus steel very well and can check other cm arceus to an extent.
- Has access to other nifty moves such as clear smog, yawn, mirror coat, counter, etc. Yawn specifically could be abused with hazards or to even help a ho team sweep, courtesy of infestation + yawn( s/o thimo).

Is it a great mon in ag? Nah, but it is one of the best primal kyogre, scarf kyogre, specs kyogre, and cm arceus steel checks around. Provide it with the right support and it is D worthy imo. Please consider giving my pet slug a nom.

Replays to support my argument:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-903559090
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-906958630
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-908182792

 

[Jerry the great]

Oh yeah, about Darkrai, it could run Thunder for stuff like Yveltal as well, and it can OHKO lots of stuff with Dark pulse after nasty plot (unless they are super bulky special mons) such as Primal Groudon, Lugia after Stealth rock hits it (I could be wrong though, considering how when I did use Darkrai, Lugia never came in), and ect. Hmm? Xerneas and Arceus Fairy? Sludge bomb! Yveltal and Primal Kyogre? Thunder! Not to mention how it can take gambles with Hypnosis, and cause absolute devastation if it hits. If anything, I say it'd be better than the scrap in D. Klefki? Arceus Fire? Regular Groudon? I feel that Darkrai is better than those fools. But I can't just be like "rank this up to B-", because once you get to B-, you get to the viable stuff. Now, I may look like an idiot yet again, but can I say C tier? I would say B- if it wasn't for the nerf. Oh yeah, like the person above me said, you can stop it's bad accuracy via Smeargle. Also I used it vs stall, and let me tell you, it murders stall. Once you get a Hypnosis up, and Nasty plot, it cleans stall up. Every stall user just forfeits once they saw my literal god of nightmares.
Edit: Need to say that anything good I may have forgot to list has most likely been mentioned by others. Oh yeah, it does better than Mewtwo X and Toxapex, but not all C mons, so yeah. Also I've only used the Life Orb set, so I'm not sure if it'd still OHKO stuff I mentioned without it. But even so, just use Hypnosis on them if it doesn't!

 

[Unicorns]

I haven't used Cloyster extensively (read as ever) but I think it's vastly under-explored. I've been running some calcs and I see a ton of potential. So much so that I think D-rank may actually be underselling it. Shell Smash is the fifth biggest mistake in Pokemon history (after Moody, Smeargle, Glare, and Evasion). The only thing I want to change on Skarph's set is adding a single slash:

Cloyster @ Focus Sash / Lum Berry
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rapid Spin / Spikes / Liquidation

Lum Berry allows Cloyster to extirpate any status-spamming, no-skill-having-ass Smeargle and stupid-ass Light Ball Deoxys-Speed, as well as setting up on lazy-ass Glare Zygarde ("I don't have an ice-resist. Might as well Glare and win 1v1"). This set once killed three of my mons on webs because Smeargle tried to para Cloyster, Lum activated as he Smashed, and I had one priority user in the back. Cloyster has enough phys def to be obnoxious to take down, even at -1:
- 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 186-219 (77.1 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 110-133 (45.6 - 55.1%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 143-169 (59.3 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Given that Cloyster is going to thrive in HO versus HO/BP matchups, let's take a look at some of these leads:

- Smeargle
Cloyster goes for Smash/Spear turn 1 versus Smeargle to force the 50-50 Hazard/Taunt and Lum allows Cloyster to beat status 100% of the time (at least until Smeargle gets evasion turn 1 and dodges every attack).
- 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Smeargle: 365-435 (116.2 - 138.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

- Deoxys-Speed
As previously mentioned in other posts, Cloyster Spears/Smashes turn 1 and spams Spin/Spear.
- 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-Speed: 180-215 (59.2 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

- Excadrill
Cloyster wins any form of the turn 1 matchup versus Exca (Tomb/Smash, Rocks/Smash).
- +2 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 500-590 (138.5 - 163.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Rock Tomb vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 122-144 (50.6 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

- Shuckle
Cloyster gets a 50-50 versus Shuckle and at worst forces Shuckle out by continuing to Smash after Encore.

- Mega Rayquaza
Cloyster even beats MRay lead most of the time, barring Band (your opponent shouldn't be risking Ray versus Sash) or Mixed (your opponent is bad):
- 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 212-251 (87.9 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
- 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 510-600 (145.2 - 170.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Only HO lead Lum Cloyster loses to is Trick Room and anti-lead Arc:
- 0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 282-333 (117 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Cloyster even beats BP by Smashing on Scolipede's Sub, then Smashing again on Protect/Pass to Smeargle:
- +4 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Scolipede: 380-455 (117.2 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (idk what higher-dimension sets these animals run)

Given this data, and with how good HO is currently with stall being so poor, Cloyster should at least go to C-rank. UR is outlandish. This assertion should definitely be backed up with multiple replays, but I'm really bad and probably can't use Cloyster right.

Speaking of mons that should go UR to D-rank: Togedemaru

I believe Toge, while mostly seen as a meme, has actually utility worthy of D-rank.
Take a look at Toge's movepool sometime. It's totally awesome! U-turn, Volt Switch, Nuzzle-wuzzle, Encore, Toxic, Endeavor, Zing Zap, Wish, Iron Head, Spiky Shield, Gravity(!), Wild Charge, Super Fang... Uber-level mons would kill for that moveset! While Toge should mostly have Sturdy for an ability, Iron Barbs and Lightningrod are awesome too. Toge's typing gives it nice immunities to poison and paralysis, as well as x4 resistances to Steel and Flying. You know what mons run Steel and Flying moves? For this exercise, this is the set I've been using:

Togedemaru @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic
- U-turn
- Nuzzle
- Encore

This set makes for a surprisingly effective lead and pivot, consistently spreading status, annoying opponents, providing momentum, and providing emergency checks for some of the most dangerous sweepers in the tier. The combination of Nuzzle-wuzzle+Encore stops most set-up sweepers in their tracks, and Toge can U-turn out afterwards on top of it. In Toge's worst games, it goes one-for-one with the added bonus of giving momentum. Toge gets to Nuzzle-wuzzle Deoxys-Speed, Smeargle, Mega Sableye, Celesteela, and SpDef DM, as well as poison Zygarde, Proudon, Giratina, and support Arc formes. As everyone knows, status is BIG in AG+Ubers, so this utility is especially good for teammates such as HexGar and Giratina-O. Toge also notably walls balance-god Arc-Poison as burns don't matter (it's a Togedemaru), and it U-turns out. Toge even ended a game once versus SD/Jab/EQ/Recover Arceus-Poison. Now let's look at some calcs:

- +5 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togedemaru: 261-307 (78.1 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Emergency check for DM with Air Balloon intact)
- +6 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Earthquake vs. Air Balloon Togedemaru: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
- 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togedemaru: 285-336 (85.3 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (works for physical and special)
- +6 252 SpA Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sturdy Togedemaru: 333-333 (99.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Wowsers)

- 252 Atk Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togedemaru: 90-106 (26.9 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (Pivots into and gains momentums versus Scarf Ray)
- +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togedemaru: 194-227 (58 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Emergency check for non V-create Ray)

- +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Stakataka Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togedemaru: 253-300 (75.7 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Emergency check for everyone's favorite sweeper from three months ago)

Here's an example team utilizing the previously mentioned HexGar and Giratina-O as teammates (I forgot to mention in the paste that double rocks helps in stall matchups, rocks on Arc-Grass can probably be switched for Perish Song bc fuq Smeargle amirite)

Some replays of Toge putting in work:
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-892060115
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-890851837
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-899838892
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-858672278
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-858664826

Just to enforce that Toge isn't a one-trick pony, here's another set that I believe could be viable.

Togedemaru @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Zing Zap
- U-turn
- Nuzzle

Anybody that has seen one of Joey's latest videos knows what this set does. Resistances to Normal (Espeed), Fairy (Judgement), and Steel (Judgement) make for an excellent pivot that is somewhat difficult to pick off, due to the resistances to common attacks. While Marshadow is the most common check to CM Arc-Steel, Toge can replicate this role.

252 Atk Togedemaru Zing Zap vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Steel: 93-109 (20.9 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

With chip damage, Toge only needs three 30%'s in a row to beat one of the hardest mons in which to pivot.

I hope this all is sufficient enough evidence to bring Toge from the depths of UR to at least D-rank.

 

[DoW]

I can't say I know much about playing with lead Cloyster, having also never done so, but I'd definitely be dubious of pure theorymonning like this, because there's a lot of things that are easy to miss. For example, I can say with absolute certainty that if I were using bp and my opponent led cloyster, I would click Iron Defense without hesitation, from which point I imagine a combination of further boosts and having roar vaporeon in the back would be more than enough to start a successful bp chain.

With that said, I'm sure it would be a perfectly capable anti-lead, following both your logic and, more importantly, the fact it's listed as a smogon dex set for Ubers. But I'm not really willing to believe that just from a post by itself, with no replays.

 

[MZ]

Oh god, this is gonna be an update alright.

A big image of our voting sheet

Necrozma-Ultra A+ to S-
Arceus-Ghost B to B-
Arceus-Grass B- to C
Deoxys-Attack B- to C
Giratina-Origin C to D
Lucario-Mega D to Unranked
Salamence-Mega D to Unranked
Landorus-T D to Unranked
Pheremosa D to Unranked

First of all the things we did do- Ultra Necrozma is ridiculously good, Ghostceus has still dropped off outside real specific webs or Ghosty spam teams, Grassceus is mediocre, Deo-A is hurt by how good Ultra is, Gira-O is super mediocre, and we got rid of some random bad stuff in D. Anyway, you might be noticing the lack of an awful lot of Unranked to D nominations, and like, I honestly think that they're the absolute wrong way to take the VR and the council agrees. There are an awful lot of Pokemon that can kind of do things when supported by much better mons, get ladder wins, do these specific little niches, etc. but ranking all of them just doesn't really work. When you get down to it, a lot of these Pokemon being nominated are either in practice never actually worth running, extremely poorly supported by the nominator to the point that there's no real reason we want to rank this thing, or both. I can't believe I'm saying this, but at least Stakataka and Heatran look somewhat reasonable and have a lot more results than a lot of the stuff nominated. We can't really say yes to things like Togedemaru that really don't deserve to be run on a more serious team, nor things like Darkrai that get posted as little more than theorymon "I think this would probably be ok to use". Look, one of the things I love about AG is the way it lets people muck around with random mons and I really have no issue with people who want to play around with their Gastrodon or Liepard teams. But as far as the VR goes, it's a resource for newer players and a more objective look at what's really good and worth using, and I think people have lost sight of that because they just want their fun cute mon to get ranked next to the big bad legendaries. That might not describe everyone's reasoning for nominating certain things, but I think it'll hit at least a few people. Anyway, we're just really not convinced that most of these things are genuinely worthwhile at all. As for the few thread nominations not about unranked Pokemon, Lunala's still a bit of a niche and inconsistent breaker overall, Lele going to B- is a massive overrating of how good Psyspam and Scarf Lele are, Deo-S HO isn't especially noteworthy at the moment, and idk why people don't like Rockceus but it's fine. If anyone wants extra details on a nomination, feel free to ask me or another council member in PMs, in the room, on discord, meta discussion thread, wherever really but I'd rather not clog up this thread of basic questions about why one specific thing wasn't ranked.
Anyway I hope being the one who has to say your favorite mon isn't ranked can't make me any more hated and that this reasoning was at least satisfactory. At least Heatran held out.

 

[Jerry the great]

Megazard, may I say something? I'd just like to say, you forgot a major thing that hurts Deoxys-Attack's viability. Stealth Rock is all over the place, and stealth rock gets rid of sash. Trust me, I've used it myself, and umm, hazards just took it's sash away. And no sash means no Nasty Plot! Oh,and taunt? Let's see you say that to Shuckle, who normally runs mental herb, pretty much just for that!

 

[Kate]

Reuniclus UR --> D
So a couple days ago I was theorymonning in AG chat, and no one would suggest a somewhat usable pokemon for me to build around. I ended up randomly scrolling and pushed Reuniclus. While it started out as a complete meme, I realized pretty quickly that Uni is actually very usable. I know with the recent vr shift, UR to D noms are a little frowned upon without more testing, but imo that applies to pokemon that are harder to use than others. Uni is very easy to use but a little hard to build around.

The Set:
Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Iron Defense
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Moveset:
Ok, so this is a pretty standard Uni set from OU/UU, Iron Defense works as a way to wall physical attackers that don't immediately threaten you, Calm Mind boosts Special Attack, allowing Uni to sweep, and the spdef boost allows it to 1v1 a lot of common special attackers in the tier. Recover is necessary to ensure longevity, and Psyshock is used to Bop Blissey and to win Calm Mind wars.

Why it works:
Magic Guard is one of the best abilities in the game, and has always been underutilized in AG due to only Counter Zam being able to carve out a place on very rare teams. Reuniclus' mono Psychic typing allows it to check huge threats in Ultra Necrozma and Spdef Dusk Mane. Uni's bulk basically makes it one of the best answers to Support arceus forms, literally only losing to the extremely rare Whirlpool variants and Darkceus. Balance teams struggle to hurt it whatsoever, and with Calm Mind, it allows it to just sweep from the get-go.

Calcs:
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 121-144 (28.6 - 34%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 148-175 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- 73.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Ultra Necrozma Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 236-278 (55.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 212-250 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 204-241 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 174-205 (41 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Steel: 178-210 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 244-288 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Zygarde 50% Thousand Arrows vs. +6 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 169-201 (39.8 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus in Heavy Rain: 276-325 (65 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 171-202 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Stakataka Gyro Ball (79 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 180-213 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 362-428 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

 

[Zenithial]

View attachment 175284

Reuniclus UR --> D
So a couple days ago I was theorymonning in AG chat, and no one would suggest a somewhat usable pokemon for me to build around. I ended up randomly scrolling and pushed Reuniclus. While it started out as a complete meme, I realized pretty quickly that Uni is actually very usable. I know with the recent vr shift, UR to D noms are a little frowned upon without more testing, but imo that applies to pokemon that are harder to use than others. Uni is very easy to use but a little hard to build around.

The Set:
Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Iron Defense
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Moveset:
Ok, so this is a pretty standard Uni set from OU/UU, Iron Defense works as a way to wall physical attackers that don't immediately threaten you, Calm Mind boosts Special Attack, allowing Uni to sweep, and the spdef boost allows it to 1v1 a lot of common special attackers in the tier. Recover is necessary to ensure longevity, and Psyshock is used to Bop Blissey and to win Calm Mind wars.

Why it works:
Magic Guard is one of the best abilities in the game, and has always been underutilized in AG due to only Counter Zam being able to carve out a place on very rare teams. Reuniclus' mono Psychic typing allows it to check huge threats in Ultra Necrozma and Spdef Dusk Mane. Uni's bulk basically makes it one of the best answers to Support arceus forms, literally only losing to the extremely rare Whirlpool variants and Darkceus. Balance teams struggle to hurt it whatsoever, and with Calm Mind, it allows it to just sweep from the get-go.

Calcs:
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 121-144 (28.6 - 34%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 148-175 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- 73.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Ultra Necrozma Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 236-278 (55.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 212-250 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 204-241 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 174-205 (41 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Steel: 178-210 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 244-288 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Zygarde 50% Thousand Arrows vs. +6 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 169-201 (39.8 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus in Heavy Rain: 276-325 (65 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 171-202 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Stakataka Gyro Ball (79 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 180-213 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 362-428 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Did you read anything mz just said lol
but fr I know that my last post was... yeah, but in light of the current meta and the vr update, I do have some important noms to share.

Ultra Necrozma S- to A+

This raise puzzled me, to be honest. I think an issue with some of the raises/drops recently is the lack of precedent. Since Ultra was raised to A+, I haven't seen it do anything special that would warrant it a raise to S-, and frankly, this pokemon has some major issues. Now I know I have nommed this Pokemon before and said some great things about it, but S- is freakishly good, and this Pokemon definitely has some flaws. The two main issues are as follows:
- Dark types
- Easily revenge killed

Now, I know dark types don't stop it per se, but there's some important things to consider. One is that you can only check one of the darks; either darkceus or yveltal, not both. So this means there's a 50 50 chance of you being completely stopped by a check. Secondly, it also means you have to drop sunsteel for coverage in stone edge or x-scissor. The issue with this is that you need a xern check alongside Ultra; this isn't a major issue but it is extremely annoying. It basically forces to use Poisonceus alongside ultra, which isn't terrible but stacks ground weakness a LOT, I have had this problem a lot with cm groundceus just steamrolling through my team. The other alternative is to use Dawn Wings to ultra burst alongside spdef mane, which again isn't bad but Dawn Wings prior to ultra bursting is far from ideal. One final thing is that X-scissor cannot actually OHKO max defensive darkceus; and is a roll against Darceus running some speed (calcs below). This kind of sucks, and there's also the fact that to bypass Yveltal you need to run Stone edge which can ultimately miss quite a bit. Charti Yveltal is pretty much off the radar, but it's not impossible to run into it and so that also does limit Ultra Necrozma's breaking capabilities. I'm just trying to say that Ultra can't indefinitely bypass its checks; a little luck is still necessary here.

+2 252 Atk Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 164 Def Arceus-Dark: 392-462 (88.4 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Dark: 336-396 (75.8 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

There are a lot of things that can revenge kill Ultra, and I mean a LOT of common threats. These include: Mega Gengar, Marshadow, Scarf Xerneas, Scarf/Sucker Punch Yveltal, Mega Rayqauza, Lunala, which are all excellent Pokemon/sets in their own right. The point here is that ultra's sweeping potential is very low; it might be able to take out something with its Z, but other than that it won't be able to do much else.

I have also felt like CM ultra has dropped off a lot; that might just be me, but I feel Swords Dance is by far the predominant set in ag now. This increases the number of checks it has (Darkceus and Skarmory are now much more reliable checks) and also increases its predictability and ease to play around. Sure, the surprise of CM is still there, but as a reflection of the meta it has to be said that it lowers ultra's viability. One last note, Mega Sableye while is quite rare is still around and only loses to sd outrage, which can leave ultra exposed to damage or allows an opposing Pokemon to set up for free.

Kyogre B- to B

Another thing I have noticed is the falling usage of Primal Groudon. Not significant drops, but definitely noteworthy. This helps base Kyogre massively, as Primal Groudon is easily its biggest adversary by far. There's not that much to say here, only two sets there really are is scarf and specs; scarf is a decent revenge killer and water spout annihilates support arc formes, and as for specs that just blows through everything that tries to switch into it, with the exception of Primal Groudon. You could say Kyogre's effectiveness is reflected by MDB's rmt, reaching an impressive elo and gxe considering he was using a B- ranked Pokemon.

An important theme here is that I think precedent and evidence is extremely important for noms at the moment; everything is so close and the VR is in reasonable shape which means for Pokemon to move up and down ranks it should be backed up significantly. Recently I don't think that's been the case with some exceptions; examples of Pokemon with good evidence and support in the last few months and have been moved up, as a result, are as follows:

- Heatran

- Koko

- Mewtwo

I just feel with some of the other noms, there's just been a lack of evidence and an element of randomness about some of the changes, including changes made within the council that no one asked for, even though it's the people that make the noms who actually play the game. I don't think it's up to the council to shift it any way they want, it should be left to the users to nom things in my opinion. Ghostceus, Grassceus and Ultra were all fine where they were, but I've only talked about ultra as that's the one I feel the strongest about. However, random stuff coming in and out of D has also seemed extremely weird, Serp was in D and then dropped out immediately, M gyra was raised to D with no real precedent and with no one really using it or providing replays. I'm just looking for some more consistent with where the council wants to go with VR, and I do think the clarification of D rank has helped but we'll wait and see what the future brings.

Lastly, hate to say it but I do finally agree with a nom that has come up quite frequently and it's been coming for a while.

Yveltal

A to A-

Going to keep it really brief, as others have already talked about this extensively. Rocks are probably the biggest pain for this Pokemon, if it took 12 instead of 25 coming in on rocks I would have kept it at A for sure. But, at the end of the day offensive sets struggle to break through Arceus-formes- with the exception of webs. However, webs in itself is not that popular of a playstyle, mostly due to the fact that defog is absolutely everywhere. While it is still effective, I don't think webs is that reflective of the meta. Scarf, while not terrible is too weak in general, there is much better revenge killing options out there. Lastly, as Skarph has said while the defensive set is probably the most effective in ag at the moment, it can be pressured greatly with rocks and is limited as a defensive option due to this.

Edit: I also think it makes sense for Yveltal and Darkceus to be on the same rank; and I think it's clear that Yveltal is closer to A- than Darkceus is to A, so a drop to A- is logical in my opinion.

Thanks for reading and I'll catch you guys later.

 

[Chloe]

cromagnet42 , I disagree extensively with the logic you've used here, and agree with MDB that Reuniclus has a substantial niche that is potentially good enough for ranking.

so here's the problem with this nom. That set from ou should always be paired with a tspikes setter, usually toxapex. If this set doesn't have a tspikes setter in ou, it is completely walled by hydreigon, ash gren, tyranitar, weavile, etc, pretty much any dark type. Take that into ag, where you have dark types that threaten it even more, such as yveltal and arc dark. The CM refresh arc dark and yveltal don't care about tspikes, and cm refresh arc dark shrugs off any attempt to toxic it. You also can get trapped by whirlpool and removed by trapper arcs. Also there's the issue of goth.

I don't agree with this. Pairing Reuniclus with something that has favourable matchup against Dark-types and Marshadow is all you really need. This is quite similar to any other set-up sweeper, so listing it as a fault of Reuniclus alone seems somewhat disingenuous. Reuniclus appreciates Toxic Spikes but saying it needs it to function is just silly. Steel Arceus can't possibly be viable because you need a Ho-Oh check, a Zygarde check, a Marshadow check? I just find this quite outlandish given the fact it isn't really a sole disadvantage for Reuniclus, and isn't as easily abusable in a bulkier metagame like Anything Goes.

Reuni also has a lot more things that threaten it. In OU, it has amazing stats because its dealing with mons that don't have base 180 attacking stats with choice bands and weather. The big issue with your calcs is that you assume that you already have an acid armor or calm mind up. I understand you can come in vs like a support arc and set up a cm or acid armor, but this can create a lot of 50/50s. Let's say that you have reuni in vs arc fairy and the opponent has something like primal ogre or ray they can switch into to counter reuni. You need to predict whether to set up cm or acid armor and if you get it wrong you're forced out. Trust me, I'm very familiar with this 50/50 that double dance reuni causes, as it cost me an important game in ou ssnl, and that's ou. That 50/50 is increased in ag.

"It relies on 50/50s" is such an unfair representation of what this Pokemon does. If one was to set Calm Mind up and the opponent went into something like Mega Rayquaza, this isn't a 50/50; it's a guaranteed switch into a solid defensive answer. This is the case with most Calm Mind Arceus formes, Dusk Mane Necrozma, and many other set-up sweepers within the tier. Reuniclus is among other things, a support/CM Arceus check that doesn't need to but can set-up against them if adequate precautions are taken.

In ou also, reuni is generally a good mon to beat offense without mega gyara, but in ag its dead weight vs offense because it can't withstand the barrage of strong hits to set up. The general message of this is that the mons in ag are so much stronger than those in ou that reuni can't stand up to them.

I'd argue here it busts through many bulkier builds. It has different roles between these two metagames, and your post relies heavily on the fact that you have only experienced this Pokemon in OU and are theorising how it functions in a tier you've never seen it used in.

And of course there's the issue of marsh. A slow set-up based mon like reuni can't stand up to it unless you use tspikes, but then you're forced to use reuni AND pex, which restricts teambuilding. I think that's all I wanted to say. We can't add every mon that may work well in theory or set up on a support arc to the VR. If mega mence and mega luc, which have very small niches are UR, then reuni should for sure be UR as well.

A setup sweeper being defeated by Marshadow. Unlike many other setup sweepers, Marshadow cannot switch-in reliably and is forced into its own 50/50. This is a Pokemon with a very noticeable lack of longevity, that can definitely be removed rather quickly. Reuniclus has a much easier time against common builds than you give it credit for.

 

[Chloe]

If you're not running this with tspikes, then why choose it over a better mon? Without tspikes it needs much more support to function. The point saying it creates 50/50s with the setup move it that it forces reuni out easily. I get that you can run checks for its answers but it takes so much damage from common heavy hitter mons. You said that reuni has different roles in the two metas, but the set that mdb posted is the same one from ou, and functions in the same way to set up and sweep. And yeah I understand that marsh is a problem for really any setup sweeper and it won't risk coming in on a psyshock so I put it last. Running it in ou gives me a solid understanding of what kind of hits reuni can take, and those in AG are too much. Even with boosts it is still weak to common heavy hitters, which every good team has.

I outlined why you're overstating how much support this Pokemon requires. It needs checks to certain Pokemon that it has trouble setting up against, which isn't too many when considering what Pokemon are common within the metagame. When considering the heavy hitters you continually bring up, there's only a certain amount that can dent this Pokemon post-one Iron Defense, and it isn't an excessive amount by any means. I've outlined why you would run a Pokemon such as Reuniclus, but you've either chosen to ignore my post or have not bothered to read it in full. Using this Pokemon in another tier doesn't give you a comprehensive understanding of what it does here.

Also reuni has abysmal special attack thus it takes a lot more to get it going. I just see no reason to use reuni over the other setup mons immune to status that already exist in AG. It can set up vs a lot of common builds. I was looking through some of my teams and I see it is pretty effective vs bulkier builds, with mons like support arcs, scarf xern, etc etc. With that being said, these teams almost always have phazers or psong trappers. So this makes the need for tspikes or hazard stack even more to support reuni.

The only point you make in this paragraph that is actually an issue for it is the presence of phazing or Perish Song, which I agree are issues it faces. However, this in tandem with the weakness to Dark-types and lack of physical defense pre-boosts are not substantial enough to prevent it from at least obtaining a rank of D. Its competency against support Arceus formes and other common support Pokemon is super nice.

It would be a nice mon to run vs super bulky squads but why run this over something like cm arc dark with refresh? They're both sweepers effectively immune to status. The bigger differences is that arc dark has better typing and better speed. I get that it has acid armor, but is boosting defense really worth running a psychic mon with mono psychic coverage? I see reuni has highly outclassed at best, it lacks speed, typing, raw power, and defensive stats to stand up to the meta. With the right team and support it could do well vs bulkier teams. But again, mons like cm refresh arcs and potentially even cosmic power calm mind clefable (which already resides in D) outclass it in nearly every regard.

CM Dark Arceus is not an adequate Fairy Arceus check, which is the most common support Arceus forme. Being able to deal with the majority of support Arceus formes and other passive Pokemon is what makes Reuniclus so beneficial. Its immunity to Toxic and other residual damage outlines it as a reliable check to these Pokemon. I just don't see it as outclassed, but am not that passionate about a green blob making d rank, just try it please instead of insisting that because you used it in OU you know if it's viable here or not.

 

[Skarpherim]

Since i'm trying to hit 100 posts to change my freaking name, I might as well give my take on MDBs nom

View attachment 175284

Reuniclus UR --> D
So a couple days ago I was theorymonning in AG chat, and no one would suggest a somewhat usable pokemon for me to build around. I ended up randomly scrolling and pushed Reuniclus. While it started out as a complete meme, I realized pretty quickly that Uni is actually very usable. I know with the recent vr shift, UR to D noms are a little frowned upon without more testing, but imo that applies to pokemon that are harder to use than others. Uni is very easy to use but a little hard to build around.

The Set:
Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Iron Defense
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Moveset:
Ok, so this is a pretty standard Uni set from OU/UU, Iron Defense works as a way to wall physical attackers that don't immediately threaten you, Calm Mind boosts Special Attack, allowing Uni to sweep, and the spdef boost allows it to 1v1 a lot of common special attackers in the tier. Recover is necessary to ensure longevity, and Psyshock is used to Bop Blissey and to win Calm Mind wars.

Why it works:
Magic Guard is one of the best abilities in the game, and has always been underutilized in AG due to only Counter Zam being able to carve out a place on very rare teams. Reuniclus' mono Psychic typing allows it to check huge threats in Ultra Necrozma and Spdef Dusk Mane. Uni's bulk basically makes it one of the best answers to Support arceus forms, literally only losing to the extremely rare Whirlpool variants and Darkceus. Balance teams struggle to hurt it whatsoever, and with Calm Mind, it allows it to just sweep from the get-go.

Calcs:
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 121-144 (28.6 - 34%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 148-175 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- 73.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Ultra Necrozma Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 236-278 (55.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 212-250 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 204-241 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 174-205 (41 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Steel: 178-210 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus: 244-288 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Zygarde 50% Thousand Arrows vs. +6 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 169-201 (39.8 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Reuniclus in Heavy Rain: 276-325 (65 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 171-202 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Stakataka Gyro Ball (79 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 180-213 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Reuniclus: 362-428 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

I'm not being close minded here, MDB bro, this mon is hot dog shit in AG. Like I can see it winning if it gets some crazy MU where there are no dark types or offensive threats where the opponents team is like.. waterceus/poisonceus/scarf mray/ferrothorn/zygarde/fairyceus and the opponent plays poorly, but that's usually due to crappy teambuilding or extreme chance.

The positives I can think for this mon are: Beating 0 invest CM Arcs if they don't crit a Judgment, beating a couple of passive support mons like ferro/gira/supportceus, and beating CM U-Necro if you are at 100% HP, predict that their dusk mane is in fact ultra, is in fact CM, and then you don't get crit after like 10 Dragon Pulses because that's how many you'll have to take until you can do any damage to UNecro. You also kinda just die if you switch into Necro and it's not CM, but im sure you'd have to use a Necro check if you're running this thing. Basically my point is, Reuniclus shouldn't be considered as anything except a setup sweeper

Here's are some reasons why this mon shouldn't be used competitively in AG

Stats are so garbage, 188 Def is well.. you know... and 295 Spd is pretty bad for being max invest and Calm nature. This thing will get completely bopped by any offensive threats if it is not setup in the right stat. Which btw, it has zero speed so you will always have to take a hit and then setup, which is awful unless you're facing one of the most non-threatening mons in the meta like Arceus-Water

Never in AG has anyone used a setup mon that has 1 attacking move which can not hit some things. Now I know that alone isn't a good arguement but, in AG dark types are on just about every balance team and Spd Dusk mane is very popular, even if you ignore how bad Reuni's stats are, it's pretty obvious to see that this mon would have a VERY hard time doing anything useful like taking out a mon or somehow sweeping. I seriously can't see this dude being useful like, even stall teams have ttar, psong, whirlwind, msab, lugia, and so on. Then HO simply crushes Reuni because it won't ever get a chance to setup. I also don't get how Reuniclus can beat balance.. Ultra-Necrozma just got moved from A+ to S- and to be honest, even if that didn't happen it would still be one of the hugest threats in AG right now, which is why everyone runs darkceus, yveltal, lunala, and ttar on balance.

Let me also talk about how other setup mons can chip away at their checks (Ex. Steelceus Earth Powers Pdon on the switch, Ekiller Earthquakes Tyranitar on the switch) while Reuni literally will never be able to damage any dark type without hazards. Even if you use the threat of say, "I can go to Xerneas if you go to Darkceus and now I have momentum." Well, not really unless you have rocks up or something since everyone with a brain has a decent Xerneas/Fairyceus check. Though this can also lead to "well you're going to dusk mane since i have Xern out so i'll go to my PDon and get rocks up now" and so on and so on, this is part of predictions and not part of the viability of Reuni.

I won't even talk about teambuilding with Reuniclus, which trust me, is not pretty. In the end I really think that Reuniclus is just a gimmick that just makes your team 5 mons and a sac. Most of the time at least

I doubt i'll make another post on this since it's not like I should care so much about some D rank mon not getting in but, in general I think everyone shouldn't get too worked up over some VR shit, so yeah

P.S i agree with everything Zenithial said besides about the U-Necro nom, I don't have much of an opinion on it being S- or A+

 

[Kate]

Well, this nom definitely generated enough talk for me to make a response. I think the most important part to consider when looking at Reuniclus is looking at the rest of D tier. Here, you can see three main categories: Outclassed Pokemon, Pokemon with a unique niche with drawbacks, and Pokemon that are mediocre outside of being partnered with other pokemon or on a certain playstyle. While this may not seem important to Uni, I'll explain later on.

Relating to what I said earlier on, here are three examples of what I mean: Arceus-Electric fits in category one; it is an OK calm mind sweeper but is generally inferior to other CM arcs. Heatran fits in category two; It has a unique place in AG but lacks better stats and recovery to make it better. Finally, Slurpuff fits in category 3; It is abysmal except as a webs lead on HO.

What I'm trying to say is that we often look at only the mon itself when thinking in terms of VR, but that is plain wrong. No one is running a team of just one pokemon, and, as such, every vr post should consider the effects of having a team built around it. Most pokemon in D are terrible if you only look at the pokemon itself and not outside factors like how it can support a team. My VR post was not fully explaining, and this is what I'll try to cover here.

When I was drawing up a team for reuniclus, it didn't take me long to realize that I needed a way to deal with Dark types. Disable Psong mgar invalidates any form of Darkceus(except for ice beam variants but those are terrible anyway), Defensive Yveltal, Even Life Orb, ttar. While it may not be a switchin, most individuals send these pokemon out to deal with mgar, and this set provides the perfect support needed. Removing Dark Types is very big, as Uni can easily dominate Balances once its check (as there is often only one) is removed. While I don't avidly support Uni moving up enough to argue people to the ground, I urge people to really look at what one supportive mon can do for Reuniclus. Thank you.

EDIT: Also agree with all of Zen's noms, Kyogre has been underrated for so long, glad to see it get some attention.

 

[Geysers]

I think ultra-necrozma should stay in s-. While it’s checked by a wide variety of pokemon, so is the other mon in S-. Zygarde-complete is obliterated by xerneas, fairyceus, cm ultra necrozma, dmeteor scarf ray sets, and mixed lo ray, not to mention outrage bandray, hp ice marshadow, pogre, and ice beam support arc forms. Saying that unecro shouldn’t stay in s- because a lot counters it is like saying that zygarde-c shouldn’t stay in s-. I think we can all agree that zygc deserves to be where it is, or even higher. I know this argument lacks a lot of substance, so I’ll point out that it’s rare for a team to have two seperate counters to unecro, i.e. both yveltal and darkceus. Additionally, a strategy I’ve used to beat non-willo darkceuses it to wait to burst in order to get STAB on sunsteel, while tanking a judgment (thanks, prism armor), then bursting and finishing it off. Ultra Necrozma definitely is S- worthy, owing to the tremendous offensive pressure it applies, and its general lack of switchins outside of defensive yveltal. Don’t drop this monster.

Edit: I want to expand on teams lacking both yveltal and darkceus. Earlier, it was stated that unecro has to run coverage for either but can’t do both. Whichever coverage move is used will be useful in at least half of battles, and, according to lady monita, yveltal is more widely used than darkceus.

Edit 2: I guess I’ll add this here since I had the bad sense to post a 1 liner lower: I had been doubtful about reuniclus, but I watched MDB’s replay below, and I actually do think it is d-worthy. It can totally stop a lot of support arc forms, and it trashes teams that rely on status to get kills. I support the nomination of Reuniclus to D.