Resource USUM Doubles OU Viability Rankings (Updated 6/27 on post #238)

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a pinned butterfly is no butterfly at all
ehh I mean they're all the same team and the same player... seems to fit under the umbrella of specific teams in tier 4 descrip.
 
ehh I mean they're all the same team and the same player... seems to fit under the umbrella of specific teams in tier 4 descrip.
I'd have to disagree because it can work using any speed control method... it can set up TW, and it works reasonably well on semi room, and with 0 speed it can work with hard TR (Although camerupt is better for that role). I do think it's nice and can hit hard on a lot of mons in tier 1 and 2, such as aegi, metagross, cele, fini, amoon, lando, kyub, and pretty much all the tapus,.. it can also stop lando from switching into it (without a scarf) because sun boosted heat wave hits insanely hard on it.
 
Bulu 3 -> 2
Bulu's one of the strongest Tapus overall, I think. It's one of the few physical attackers in the meta that can break through fat mons even in the face of an Intimidate drop. It's also pretty much the only true Ground resist in this meta, given that Zygarde can hit Flying-types. Wallbreaker + rain check + ground resist is great role compression, and I think if you look at any recent tour stats you'll see it performs at least as well as any other Tapu.

Suicune UR -> 3
Inner Focus on a Water-type buys you a lot of momentum in the Incineroar meta. Suicune is inherently bulkier than Tapu Fini and is a good "alternative" Tailwind setter when the obvious picks like Zapdos feel too awkward. Roar is also a legitimate move to run on this set, as Inner Focus + Roar is pretty much the best anti-TR and anti-setup tech in the meta. Also, it has nice access to Snarl.

Landorus-T 1 -> 2
Still a great mon, but it doesn't monopolize the "viable Intimidate user" role like it used to.

e: miltankmilk - Today at 1:03 PM can you expand on lando->2, its a pretty huge shift

While it still offers invaluable role compression, it faces increasingly stiff competition from Incineroar + Zygarde cores. It also seldom has a clean window to use its main STAB attack, Earthquake, outside of running Groundium Z. With Bulu becoming increasingly relevant, both as a threat and as a desirable ally, it's also becoming harder to justify running Lando over other alternatives. Its x4 Ice weakness hurts it when the two Tier 1 megas, Mega Metagross and Mega Gengar, can outpace it and hit it with Ice Punch / HP Ice respectively. In general too, its speed tier is a bit middling for what it wants to be able to hit (barring scarf sets, but those are pretty rare now).

This isn't to disrespect Lando-T at all - it's still a really good mon and probably one of the most diverse in terms of the different sets it can run. It's just not something you toss on every team without consequence, like you used to.
Although I do agree that Landorus does face competition from Incineroar, I honestly prefer to move Incineroar up rather than Landorus down. Just my opinion.
 

tennisace

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tbh I think both MACHO NYAN -> 1 and Landoge -> 2 should happen.

Incineroar is the best intimidate mon in the tier bar none. In just 4 moves, it puts up Fake Out pressure, deals big damage with Flare Blitz, can provide team support through Knock Off, and can pivot out to a better situation with U-turn. It has great typing; being a Dark-type not weak to fairy means Lele can't just stop its Fake Out for free, and Fire-type means it shuts down Bulu/Gene and forces MGar and MGross to be a bit more predictable in their moves. It also rampages through the usual suspects in TR; forcing mons like Stakatakatakataka and Scrafty in and mons like Goth, Amoo, and Hoopa-U out. Finally, it has excellent synergy with basically every play style: goodstuffs teams can use it on a tough defensive FWG core (Ferro/Fini, Bulu/Cune, Amoo/Volcanion, etc) or pair it up with another Pivot mon and Zygarde (Koko, MMane, Landoge). Rain teams appreciate the Grass resist, Fake Out pressure, and Intimidate. It stacks a couple (ok, a lot) of weaknesses with TTar and Excadrill on sand teams but you can load the back half with resists like Fini/Zapdos/Amoo and still be fine. It dances the line between strong and bulky, supportive and offensive, and it is splashable on just about any team you can think of. That's a Tier 1 mon to me.

MEANWHILE,

I don't think Landorus is as splashable as Incineroar anymore. It's main use as a Ground immunity is pretty much gone thanks to Zygarde spamming arrows all over the place, and since Zygarde is becoming a much larger threat than in the past people are loading up on Ice-type moves on things like MMeta/HP Ice Gengar/Suicune, in addition to Bulu becoming more common as a true Ground resist which puts a damper on Landoge's ability to use that huge attack stat. It's got an OK speed tier, but it's basically playing as the fastest of the slow mons rn and needs Tailwind to do much.

Also low key I think Zygarde is best non-mega in the format overall, Mega Mane is third best mega after Gengar and Gross, and that all Tapus should be T2 because they're all roughly the same to me but that's neither here nor there.
 
^ on that note, Zygarde 2 -> 1

Really good winrate throughout DPL and it's singlehandedly making the role of "ground resist" obsolete with the exception of like Bulu and maybe Araquanid. It's weak without support, but its super, super easy to build a team that supports it well rn. Really good bulk as well, and outside of the obvious fairy and ice weaknesses, Dragon/Ground offers a lot of useful resistances including a resistance to Fire-type attacks that are always hard to switch into.
 

SMB

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Genesect Tier 3 -> Tier 2

Really splashable on teams with two of the most popular megas rn (gengar and manectric) since checking kyub and ground types on the same slot is amazing for them, doesn't care about shadow tag due to uturn, av set is really, really good rn especially paired with shadow tag or webs. Can also support the team with electroweb or be a soft rain check with energy ball. Probably the most versatile and strong steel type apart from mega metagross on the tier.

Also about some other noms; strongly supporting the bulu rise (either this or drop lele to tier 3. Or both.) and the inclusion of araquanid on the VR. I don't think incineroar and zygarde deserve tier 1 yet, they are probably the best 2 pokemon on tier 2 and they would be tier 1.5 if we had that but I don't think they are at the same level than tier 1 pokemons at the moment. Kinda disagree with the lando drop nom as well, even tho it's probably not as powerful and dominant on the tier as it once was, the role compression and the variety of sets it can run (yache berry being probably the best rn) is what makes it still tier 1 worthy in my opinion.
 

miltankmilk

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VR Voting


Aegislash 2-> 3
Demantoid: Yes, most everything is able to threaten big damage on it and it’s pretty slow.

Kaori: no, still very good mon

MajorBowman: no, still a great pokemon that can do a lot of damage while offering some pretty good support

marilli: no, still very good mon

Memoric: yes, its slowness make it a bit easy to punish than i would like, id say it’s at the high end of 3

Miltankmilk: no, its still good despite the team player. 3 is too low

Talkingtree: no, I think team player cat took this from the top of 2 to the bottom of 2, but no lower than that

Tapu Bulu 3->2
Demantoid: yes, Bulu is probably better than lele and maybe koko rn. Being one of the only viable Thousand Arrows resists helps it fit on more teams.

Kaori: yes, its finally on the same level as the other tapus

MajorBowman: YOU’VE FINALLY SEEN THE LIGHT

marilli: yes, its finally on the same level as the other tapus. Ground resist is sogood.

Memoric: yes :blobthumbsup:

Miltankmilk: Yeah, bulu is near meta defining right now, a staple on gengar + zyg/kommo teams and on par with tier 2 mons.

Talkingtree: Absolutely. Bulu belongs with the other Tapus (- Fini), if you need reasons go read GenOne’s nom.

Suicune UR-> 3, 4 or 5
Demantoid: 4, Inner Focus helps against Incineroar and it’s bulk lets it set up tailwind against almost anything. mew mew

Kaori: i can get behind 4, pretty cool niche thanks to the release of its HA but still has a lot of the same issues it always has

MajorBowman: 5. Suicune has always been a “set tailwind then do nothing” mon to me and I don’t think that’s really changed.

Marilli: 4 sure. 3 sounds like a stretch.

Memoric: 4 is fine, it’s a good and reliable enough Tailwind setter as it is and Inner Focus is quite a boon

Miltankmilk: I will say 4, I think its a very cool TW setter rn, inner focus is actually very nice, nice access and even something like roar is a cool option to shut down the clanger

Talkingtree: 4 seems about right. Sets Tailwind, Roar + Inner Focus makes it a decent TR stop which is very appreciated on a TW setter. A bulky water-type that doesn’t really infringe on Tapu Fini’s niche can perform quite well, as seen by Milotic.

Landorus-T 1->2
Demantoid: no, It’s the best rocks setter by a lot which helps it keep a spot as a meta-defining mon for me.

Kaori: first time ive ever had to think about a nom like this but it still defines the metagame for sure

MajorBowman: literally no. even if lando is in a bit of a lull, its lull is still head and shoulders greater than most of the pokemon in the tier

Marilli: no means no

Memoric: Lando is still too good and offers so much that i dont think it’s worth dropping this to 2; having a bad stretch rn but it’s still quite imposing

Miltankmilk: gonna say no, I do think Lando is at a relative low point in its viability (toward the bottom of tier 1) but I do think its still a better mon than those in tier 2. It provides a lot of utility and power in one slot, far more power than the cat does, nice access to rocks and acts as a better check to zyg.

Talkingtree: Nope. For the first time I don’t think this as a nom is ridiculous, but Landorus-T is still absolutely meta-defining and deserves to stay in 1.

Deoxys-A 2-> 3
Demantoid: yes, hasn’t done as well as before but I think the way to use this now is with redirection

Kaori: havent seen it in a minute, still v dangerous but i do support it dropping for the time being

MajorBowman: yes, usage been dropping and people are starting to adapt to it a bit better

marilli: eh, ho is still a very good playstyle. probably.

Memoric: yes i suppose, hasn’t seen much use

Miltankmilk: yes but I think deo is being slept on. It fits on very specific team comps but its super dangerous so lets not drop it further than 3.

Talkingtree: 3, no usage so I can’t really argue for it to stay in 2 based on much more than theorymonning.

Incineroar 2-> 1
Demantoid: Yes, at first i didn’t want to but it is too splashable and meta defining not to move up to 1.

Kaori: i dont see a reason not to, defines the metagame pretty hard and is extremely splashable on nearly any archetype

MajorBowman: abstain, still haven’t played much with incineroar and it this seems like a knee jerk reaction to me. I could definitely be wrong but i don’t feel strongly enough to answer either way

marilli: yes means yes

Memoric: very very splashable, always good and the utility is ace. This is def a t1 mon

Miltankmilk: yes, the team player cat is so easy to splash, fits on so many teams, provides so much utility. Definitely on par with the tier 1 giants

Talkingtree: sure, consistent usage in big tours doesn’t lie

Araquanid UR-> 4
Demantoid: 5, I’m not convinced this deserves 4 but I do think it needs a spot on the rankings

Kaori: need to see a bit more before moving it up further but being a real ground resist is def a good quality

MajorBowman: 5 is a good spot for araquanid, it’ll never be splashable but it has a place on some teams

marilli: this is pretty good mon. i think 5 is good as is tbh.

Memoric: no :blobthinking: i just ain’t seeing it tbh

Miltankmilk: 5 is a good spot for Araq. It has a place with zyg being so good right now and webs are kinda lit too when u dont need to run slurpuff.

Talkingtree: 5, I’d normally want to see something more but I love araquanid :spider:

Mega Charizard Y 4->3
Demantoid: ok. Strong fire moves are :sogood: especially with rocks support

Kaori: im fine with this, i think its best suited to extremely offensive builds rather than the zard-balances of old but strong fire attacks in a metagame without heatran being prominent will always be good

MajorBowman: yes, taking attacks from zard is always difficult, especially if it can stay ahead in the weather war. Still nowhere near its oras glory days, but 3 is a decent spot for it

marilli: yeah zard y is pretty good for offense, which is thriving rn.

Memoric: yes, it’s p dangerous as hell and it’s been on the rise so ye.

Miltankmilk: No, I think its good but requires a ton of support and doesn’t lend itself to many different playstyles. While pokemon like that can be tier 3, I don’t think zard is quite at the threat level as say, Deoxys, which similarly requires a lot of support.

Talkingtree: yep, not much else to add that hasn’t been said by the above or AuraRay


Zygarde 2->1
Demantoid: Sure. Meta trends are helping it right now like Incineroar both helping it set up and giving it set up bait on opposing teams.

Kaori: i dont see a reason not to right now, but i could also see it just as easily going back down later if things shift around in a potential post-gengar meta

MajorBowman: hmmm yeah I guess. Zygarde has always been close to tier 1 material and it seems like it’s finally breaking the glass ceiling. The meta is in a pretty good place for it right now and it can run a few sets really well. Agree with tree that it has some good checks that keep it from being broken but not that keep it from being tier 1

Marilli: yeah this is a strong poke its a pita to have actual resists to this

Memoric: Yeah I guess, it can be very dangerous and brazy lol, always a pain to try and check and always dangerous. Meta adjusted enough for it to catch up to speed.

Miltankmilk: Yes. I feel like zyg’s viability has come in waves and this is the real peak. Zyg has fantastic synergy with other tier 1 mons like gengar and (hopefully) incineroar, it gets easy set up opportunities in most games and can opt for Z move or pinch berry/leftovers. Really scary mon once it sets up and takes advantage of trapping like nothing else.

Talkingtree: yes, I think it’s time. Zygarde’s one of the absolute largest forces in the metagame right now and it has its checks; however, that’s why it’s not being banned, not a reason to keep it out of tier 1.


VR Shifts
Tapu Bulu 3->2
Suicune UR->4
Deoxys A 2->3
Incineroar 2-> 1
Araquanid UR->5
Mega Charizard Y 4->3
Zygarde 2->1
 
Tapu Fini 1->2: I know that fini is an incredible mon in the metagame, but nowadays bulu, koko, kartana, mega manetric, mgar, and zapdos are extreamly common, and fini really can't touch any of em (although for obvious reasons kartana can't switch into any attack from fini. It also has a bit of trouble setting up, and if it can't get calm mind off it really can't do much damage. I still think it's a fantastic mon, with incredible defensive ability, but I think all of those weaknesses are really affecting it in the current meta.
 
welcome to the outdated 'mon drop post!!!



Hoopa-U 2 -> 3

Hoopa-U was already seeing less usage before Incineroar's release but support cat's splashability was the nail in the coffin for its viability. The main allure of Hoopa-U was a having a Trick Room set with near unwallable STABs, with only TTar and Scrafty taking them well, but then Incineroar came around. :(. While it's still a decent pick, and as always, I think other non-TR sets have a lot of potential, they don't really exist right now and Lele's small decline makes it harder to lean on Hyperspace Hole for damage in a metagame infested by Intimidate.


Mega Scizor 3 -> 4

This should have happened a long time ago - Scizor's usage disappeared once Metagross started rising as the top dog, even before the Snorlax ban. While in a vacuum, Scizor's fine, it's hard to justify using it over something that provides similar strength & defensive utility (possibly even more of the latter) at a high speed tier that allows it to go to town even as a lead. Intimidate has also skyrocketed in popularity between support cat, Lando-T and Manectric, and +1 BPs are just not that threatening.



Heatran 4 -> UR

We can waste the space sending this to 5 before eventually forgetting about it or just drop it here. Frankly, Heatran is garbage, has been for an extremely long time, and its flaws have only been worsened as the metagame shifts more towards Pokemon like Kommo-O and Zygarde. Considering how well Incineroar and Volcanion have positioned themselves, both having actual utility vs the omnipresent bulky waters & grounds, fitting this onto a competitive team is near impossible and opens up holes to the Pokemon that Steel-types are supposed to check like Metagross and Tapu Lele. It does not provide enough defensive utility or offensive strength. It is just bad.
 
Suicune 4>-3 earlier I said I don't think suicune belongs higher than this, but after using it more I realized it's much better than I gave it credit for. It's offensive ability is lacking, I admit, but it makes up for that with great defensive typing, and the ability to roar out anything that threatens your partner, or make it very hard for your aponent to use special attackers with snarl. Once TW is off, suicune will outspeed a good portion of the meta, and can be very hard to deal with, and force out special attackersafter just a couple of snarls. I believe it is a viable choice over zapdos on many teams, especially In the incineroar-zygarde dominated meta which gives zapdos a lot of trouble thanks to thousand arrows. I think it works great with some fantastic mons, such as metagross, all the tapus, especially bulu (which gives it some reasonable passive healing, as well as covering its weaknesses reasonably well), incineroar, mgar, and many others. It also works very well against many top threats in the meta, such as lando-t, when carrying ice beam, it can OHKO offensive variants, mgar, lele, fini, aegi, and volcanion can't really switch into it when spamming snarl (especially when tailwind is up). And it also won't be OHKOed by many mons that people vary to take care of it, such as kartanas leaf blade (baring the occasional life orb variants), mega manetric, and t-bolt from non LO koko. It works very well pretty much through the entire game, but if it's threats are taken care of, it can be very hard to stop.

welcome to the outdated 'mon drop post!!!



Hoopa-U 2 -> 3

Hoopa-U was already seeing less usage before Incineroar's release but support cat's splashability was the nail in the coffin for its viability. The main allure of Hoopa-U was a having a Trick Room set with near unwallable STABs, with only TTar and Scrafty taking them well, but then Incineroar came around. :(. While it's still a decent pick, and as always, I think other non-TR sets have a lot of potential, they don't really exist right now and Lele's small decline makes it harder to lean on Hyperspace Hole for damage in a metagame infested by Intimidate.


Mega Scizor 3 -> 4

This should have happened a long time ago - Scizor's usage disappeared once Metagross started rising as the top dog, even before the Snorlax ban. While in a vacuum, Scizor's fine, it's hard to justify using it over something that provides similar strength & defensive utility (possibly even more of the latter) at a high speed tier that allows it to go to town even as a lead. Intimidate has also skyrocketed in popularity between support cat, Lando-T and Manectric, and +1 BPs are just not that threatening.



Heatran 4 -> UR

We can waste the space sending this to 5 before eventually forgetting about it or just drop it here. Frankly, Heatran is garbage, has been for an extremely long time, and its flaws have only been worsened as the metagame shifts more towards Pokemon like Kommo-O and Zygarde. Considering how well Incineroar and Volcanion have positioned themselves, both having actual utility vs the omnipresent bulky waters & grounds, fitting this onto a competitive team is near impossible and opens up holes to the Pokemon that Steel-types are supposed to check like Metagross and Tapu Lele. It does not provide enough defensive utility or offensive strength. It is just bad.
TBH I think it scizor should just go to 5... it's only logical to use over metagross if you really need to be able to set up TW and can't afford zap, mence, or suicune... which is pretty rare IMO
 
manectric mega to 2
this guy somehow manages to be one of the best megas on the field despite the fact that we all considered it an unmon for years.
it doesnt hit particularly hard but provides an insane amount of utility and great type coverage. it has a bit of 4mss syndrome with a lot of sets using volt switch as their only electric move to make room and most choosing between snarl for utility or ice hp for the ground coverage. it outspeeds mega gengar and pivots out while doing good damage, which is very important for early games. it has a good matchup vs every mega that gets used, its worst matchup is the mirror. not mega evolving and keeping lrod can also help swing games and support water types etc. this guy is great

celesteela to 3
this guy looks good but have you ever tried to fit him on a team?? leech seed doesnt work as a wincon if your opponent has bulu which is a lot more common now, and it cant fit its interesting techs most of the time, being forced to run slam/flamethrower/seeds/tect which is very predictable and difficult to run away with the game with.

gonna echo smbs gene to 2 post.
this is the best nonmega steel imo. generally has to run scarf or av because you p much always want 4 atk moves but both sets are super good and easy to fit on a team. can choose its checks to some extent with the ability to run coverage moves like energy ball gunk shot and flamethrower
 
Nominating alolan Persian to tier 5. All in all this mon is decent. Foul play (if carying black glasses) has a high chance to OHKO metagross, hits annoyingly hard on a lot of mons, stops people from wanting to set up swords dance/dd due to the fact that foul play will hit harder. It has really great phisical bulk with the use of fur coat, allowing it to absorb tons of NVE or neutral hits without any trouble, and take in at least a few SE phisical hits. It's also extreanly fast, with access to a lot of other moves like icy wind, an extreamly fast fake out, snarl, taunt, and most importantly parting shot (which is what I believe gives it a decent niche). Parting shot is a great way to pivot out of bad matchups and make it hard for the opponent to do much damage by lowering there attack and special attack, which works very well with intimidate, which is used on almost all teams, through lando-t, mega manetric, or incineroar. It does have many flaws though, such as its underwhelming special bulk, and the fact it really can't do much damage to special attackers. All in all it's a decent mon that has a decent niche in the metagame.
 

Memoric

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So yeah, as can be seen, I've taken over handling this resource thread. I would like to extend our appreciation for miltankmilk who diligently took care of this before, sorry it had to go like that but all the best either way my guy. As he also stepped down from voting, I'm proud to announce that, in his place, EmbCPT will be joining us in the VR Council!

VR Voting

Genesect - 3 to 2
Demantoid: yes, genesect is in a really good spot right now because of how well it synergizes with gengar and incineroar. Also one of the few things that outspeeds kommo-o and zygarde after they’re boosted.

EmbCPT: its movepool, typing and utility support many of the most common threats in the most efficient way possible. A fast steel type with U-turn and a Landorus-T nuke belongs in tier 2, in my opinion.

Kaori: big agree, super versatile and something we should be seeing more of

MajorBowman: pretty conflicted on this one, i think genesect is solid but not sure if i want to bump it up. AV becoming popular gives it more than one set which helps, but AV and scarf both sometimes lack the power you want from the role genesect fulfills. I’m gonna go with no for now because i’m not super convinced genesect is on the same level as stuff like the tapus/kyurem/volcanion

Marilli: jrenner nom yn (yes)

Memoric: yes, this bug type is fire, its coverage makes it p versatile in general regardless of set.

Talkingtree: Easy yes, I was a nonbeliever in AV but it’s actually pretty decent and this added flexibility in sets bumps it up to 2 pretty handily.

Tapu Fini - 1 to 2
Demantoid: no, still a really glue mon to check a lot of things

EmbCPT: fairy and water together give Fini really strong offensive coverage that very few Pokémon can resist. Combining that with its insane bulk, the ability to check Kommo-o, Zygarde and Incineroar and its overall utility, I definitely think Fini should stay in tier 1. Disagree.

Kaori: disagree, kommo-o/zyg being two of the dominant setup threats puts fini in a rly nice position

MajorBowman: yes, i don’t think fini is on a different level than the other 3 tapus (which are all in 2). It’s good but really only defensively good. It’s whole shtick is that it nerfs the other 3 tapus and can do a small bit of damage along the way. I think it’s more of a 2-level mon than 1.

Marilli: yeah loses to brokenmon so it’s kinda bad. Ya its good in theory and still a decent mon but it’s not tier 1 which are basically either pokemon that break the tier in half (gengar, zygarde) or support really well (lando, incin), regardless of being trapped against the best pokemon in the game

Memoric: no, it’s still a nifty check to a lot of things and is a capable glue; still a stellar meta pick

Talkingtree: no, read Edu’s reasoning bc he nailed it

Hoopa-U - 2 to 3
Demantoid: yes, most common mons now beat it except mega gengar, but it can get gealt with pretty easily now.

EmbCPT: agree. I can definitely see it going back to 2, but the rise in Incineroar and Genesect makes it too hard to use right now. The fact that it has no resistances also doesn’t help its case.

Kaori: agree unfortunately, i think it’s best currently in an offensive role as a tailwind abuser rather than the TR set that made it popular originally. As long as incineroar stays this popular i cant see it being higher than 3

MajorBowman: yeah probably deserved. Still think hoopa is a pretty great pokemon and having a pretty positive gengar matchup is hot but a lot of the other popular stuff just breaks it

marilli: loses to incineroar sobad. Was mon that needed setup support, but once it got going could blow holes on the opposing team. Now it needs support and still gets throttled and loses momentum to incineroar, forces you to really outplay that and lowers your number of outs.

Memoric: Yes, Inciniroar really screwed with this one pretty badly and it was a bit shaky even before that due to its obvious flaws. Its neat coverage being tarnished due to gaining a really omniprescent wall to it made its life really hard.

Talkingtree: I still really like Hoopa-U… but it belongs in Tier 3. More offensive sets with Gunk Shot or my personal favorite, Z-Focus Blast as an Incineroar lure, are probably the best options it has, but those sets are considerably more niche than the offensive TR setter role that initially bumped it up to 2.

Mega Scizor - 3 to 4
Demantoid: I think Scizor itself is still good but the teams it used to be on need to adapt to the meta more.

EmbCPT: The fact that the most common Fire type doesn’t resist Bug Bite only helps Scizor. The main issue I see is Kommo-o’s rise in usage on teams with Genesect and Incineroar, which could potentially mean 3 Fire moves on just one team. It’s a close one, but I vote for 3.

Kaori: its a little weird, since i like scizor alone merits a 3 but the kind of teams it needs to function properly are more of a tier 4. Think ill vote stay in 3 though, setup steel is always going to be at least okay in tapu town

MajorBowman: 3 is still fine, I’m not really sure what would have changed that would force scizor to drop. Bulky steel that can set up and hit hard is definitely 3 matieral

marilli: nah 3s OK for this tbh

Memoric: No, it’s still pretty good IMO.

Talkingtree: 3. People are more prepared for Scizor than before, but it’s still better than most of the stuff in 4.

Heatran - 4 to 5, UR
Demantoid: 5, it should be with the other bad but usable fires.

EmbCPT: Heatran is a huge threat to Pokémon that have been becoming more popular, like Gengar, Genesect, Bulu and Incineroar. It also walls Kommo-o’s without fighting moves. If there’s a time for it to shine, it’s right now and, although I believe it should’ve been tier 5 before, I think it belongs in 4 now.

Kaori: 5, ur is a bit extreme but my lava frog prince has seen better days

MajorBowman: literally UR it’s so bad get woke

marilli: delete this pokemon

Memoric: I’d say this still has some use or very specific niche for at least 5, UR just seems too extreme to me.

Talkingtree: 5, I still think Heatran *could* be decent, but I don’t really feel comfortable voting based on that so instead I’ll just say it’s no worse than many of the Pokemon in 5 rn. UR only feels justified because it’s easier to think “It’s so much worse than it used to be so I’d never use it” than to consider its current place in the meta

Mega Manectric - 4 to 3, 2
Demantoid: 2, I think MegaMan is the second best mega right now. I’d consider at least much better than everything that’s in 3. It’s a great pivot and can change its coverage to help a team’s bad matchups.

EmbCPT: Mega Manectric is, in my opinion, a top tier Pokémon, but a mid tier Mega. It doesn’t deal insane damage, but it has just the right stats and moves to check the Pokémon in tiers 1 and 2 while carrying one of the best moves in the game for board control in Volt Switch, as well as the always prevalent Intimidate ability. By the definition of a “Tier 2 Pokémon”, I believe Mega Manectric belongs there.

Kaori: 3, bit too passive for me to put it any higher than 3 but it does its job and does it well.

MajorBowman: Definitely 3, maybe 2. Manectric is weird in that it’s a mega evolution that is really more of a support mon. It’s never going to be the main damage dealer on a team, and if it is then you need to throw that team away immediately. Manectric is fantastic at pivoting and slower other teams down with Intimidate and Snarl and can provide some neat coverage in a pinch with something like Overheat or HP Ice. 4 is definitely too low and 2 *might* be alright, but I think I’d stick to 3 for now.

marilli: 3 probably, doesn’t do enough direct damage to be threatening enough and needs big time team support to leverage its speed. While it’s a strong pokemon on its own and has positive matchups against other broken megas like gengar and metagross, it doesn’t leverage its positive matchups well enough to break open the game the way tier 2 Pokes often do.

Memoric: 3, like, i think it’s really hot and all, its speed and versatility really giving it favors, but like kaori it’s a bit passive for my tastes.

Talkingtree: Yes to 3, abstain to 2. I love the support and positive matchups that Mega Manectric provides. However, there’s a pretty big gap between its positive matchups and any other matchups. Volt Switch helps it get out of those “meh” situations, but I’m not sure if that’s enough to make up for the times Manectric can’t really do much.

Celesteela - 2 to 3
Demantoid: Yes, hard to actually get this mon in a position where it can win now. I also suffers from 4mss making it less effective.

EmbCPT: agree. Its matchups vs most of the high tier Pokémon aren’t great, the rise in Incineroar usage certainly doesn’t help. It still punishes the lack of proper checks to it, but that became very uncommon lately. If less standard sets start being used on this Pokémon, mainly ones that don’t rely on stalling end games, I can definitely see it back in tier 2.

Kaori: hesitant to agree on this one, its a metagame mon that will either flourish or perish based on whats popular at the time and how many checks are being packed. As of right now ill go with 3, but it could just as easily move up with a small shift

MajorBowman: Yeah I was actually gonna nom this myself before I realized it was already being voted on. It just doesn’t checkmate games like it used to and it’s too slow to have any sort of offensive presence. Definitely deserved to be 2 at one time but not anymore.

marilli: yea this mons too passive, defensive win conditions don’t exist in shadow tag offensive metagame, quite impossible to win with this unless your opponent’s using bad teams that can’t force their business on you and instead hope that sitting around will naturally win the game for them for idk why lol

Memoric: Yes, p much what Kaori said tbh

Talkingtree: yep even if I wanted to argue for its effectiveness (and I don’t), this doesn’t get the usage to justify it staying in 2

Persian-A - UR to 5
Demantoid: UR, I don’t ever see this except on memey teams

EmbCPT: tough call. It has great utility with Fake Out and Parting Shot, and Foul Play not requiring Attack investment allows it to focus on its bulk. The fact that it checks Metagross so well added to Parting Shot being so strong makes me believe it belongs in 5.

Kaori: 5 is fine, it offers a pretty unique role and its gigantic movepool means it can be tailored to a number of teams

MajorBowman: Abstain, I think i’ve seen like 2 persians in all of usum dou

marilli: ok nvm i’ve seen the tier 5s now and there’s plenty of other pokes on there that get fringe play, so 5’s fine i guess. Mons not garbage. it’s questionable whether this mons actually relevant / common enough, but i guess other stuff in 5 have the exact same issue so /shrug

Memoric: yes this is fine, ive seen this mon appear enough on an on-and-off basis outside of meme settings that i think it’s fine putting it in 5.

Talkingtree: abstain, haven’t seen it do enough to warrant giving it a rank but I could see it being alright


VR Shifts

Genesect 3 -> 2
Hoopa 2 -> 3
Heatran 4 -> 5
Mega Manectric 4 -> 3
Celesteela 2 -> 3
Persian-A UR -> 5
 
Azumarill tier 5 ->UR
This thing is trash and I haven't seen it used in any actual competitive teams in like a year... it has horrible matchups with all the common megas right now (metagross, gengar, manetric, exc.), as well as other extreamly common mons such as zapdos, aegi, kyub, fini, amoonguss, bulu, koko, and genese the, and can't really do much until they are removed. in order to do much damage it has to set up belly drum, which it has a lot of trouble doing due to its horrible matchup with all the mons mentioned above. It's also a very slow mon (50 base), and is extreamly hard to fit onto a fullroom team. Taunt being a move carried on a lot of teams can stop it from setting up, and make it impossible for it to do much damage. To sum it up this thing is really bad, and is completely unviable IMO.

Rotom wash 5->3
This thing is awesome. It has really nice defences backed with one of the best defensive typing in the game, with a very solid move pool. It has put in fantastic work on a lot of teams, by absorbing hits with ally switch, making a lot of phisical attackers completely useless with will-o-wisp,such as metagross, lando-t, DD mence, zygarde (to an extent), exc. it can dish out decent damage to a lot of common threats, such as incineroar with hydro pump, and fini with thunderbolt, without ether of them being able to put out too much damage in return. It's a decent rain check, stoping swampert from much damage by burning it, and doing decent damage with hydro pump. It works really well with common mons, especially gengar, metagross, gene, and zygarde. All in all I really think it's a great mon with a lot of potential on a lot of teams.

Zapdos 2->1
TBH I think this should have happened long ago. Zapdos is by far the best tw setter, working very well on pretty much any team that needs tailwind. Great bulk, fantastic offensive typing, can use a ton of different moves/sets so it's really unpredictable, such as volt switch to pivot out, hp ice, heat wave, etc. and items such as seeds, pinch berries, electric-Z which I have seen become increasingly more popular in order to deal with and OHKO common water types like fini.
Only a few mons are able to really threaten it, specifically lando-t and zygarde with rock slide and thousand arrows prospectively. But after tailwind is up, zapdos can just use HP ice a couple times and both of them are gone. It works really well on psyspam teams (lele and metagross), with gengar, and mega t-tar. Just think it's by far the best tailwind setter in the meta, and it deserves a spot in tier 1.
Politoed 5->4 politoed works pretty much on the same level as peliper (the only other drizzle user in the tier), and i think it's on the same level due to the fact that it's more bulky, and has really nice support moves like encore, icy wind, helping hand, and a few other more niche options (those are the ones that tend to be used the most). That's pretty much it but it seems to me to be better on a lot of teams
 
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Memoric

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Hello! We, the DOU VR Council, have retrospectively voted on the Pokemon in Tier 5 in an attempt to determine whether they are worthy of the ranking or should be Unranked (UR). Below is a screenshot of the results of our voting.

Pokemon that are now UR:
  • Mega Abomasnow
  • Oranguru
  • Staraptor
  • Thundurus
  • Thundurus-T
  • Torkoal
  • Whimsicott
Also, as one can notice, the changes in the VR tend to be inconsistent in timing as it, for the most part, went like this: pile up nominations -> vote on them. This can lead to some rankings being quite delayed. Well, starting now, we’ve decided to implement a more consistent basis for VR changes: we are now to vote and implement nominations every 3 weeks on Sundays, the next shift on the 24th and going from there.

In addition, as inspired by the shift seen above, we are now implementing a new policy for the Doubles OU Viability Rankings: the VR council will be voting on the rankings of Pokemon in Tier 4 and 5 every 5th of each month. This is to make sure that the mons in Tier 4 and 5, which can be quite volatile and may very well be emphasizing "flavors of the month", are accurately represented regarding their viability. The council can only vote on whether they are Tier 4, Tier 5, or UR; no rises to 3 and above are possible through this voting.

The Pokemon in Tiers 3 and above can be said to have held their viability to a respectable degree and are thus will not fall under this policy, which simply aims to do maintenance on the lower rankings without the need to actually nominate the moves; this grants us flexibility as we can quickly vote on the rankings in our attempt to maintain the lower VR's accuracy as much as possible. For rises and falls involving 3 and above, proper nominations are still required. Nominations involving Tiers 4 and 5 are also still fine and will be included in the proper voting. This policy doesn't change standard procedure in any way; there's simply that fact that we'll be "sweeping" the lower tiers once each month. Pokemon that were recently shifted to 4 and 5, regardless of if they’re from 1 to 3 or UR, will be exempt from this sweep.

TLDR: Shifts in the VR are guaranteed to happen every 3 weeks, and once a month we'll be checking on Tiers 4 and 5
 
Aegislash 2 -> 3

Being nearly forced to protect itself after attacking, you're allowing not 1, but 2 opposing Pokémon to either set up or freely attack Aegislash's partner, forcing many unnecessary 50/50's just so you don't lose too much momentum. If it had a decent speed stat, at least you could go for the midground play of trading Pokémon, but instead you're forced into having to choose between possibly sacrificing your Pokémon on the prediction that your opponent will not attack it, or protecting and allowing free setup/switches/double targets into your other Pokémon. You also have to account for the possibility of your opponent going for a spread move and setting up with the partner once you're in Blade Form, something quite doable if you add the fact that many spread moves seen in this metagame are super effective against Aegislash (Heat Wave, Earthquake, Snarl). This means you're relying on having to read your opponent while they can go for a safe play that not only can net them a KO, but also give them nearly free setup, giving you a huge disadvantage right away, all of this happening every time Aegislash goes into Blade Form. Obviously, reads are part of the game, but so is odds management and forcing yourself into a 50/50 just by using this Pokémon goes heavily against that concept.

Going back to the speed stat, being so slow allows it to easily be double targeted before being able to move, a problem that could actually become worse if you try to fix it, since making it move first will allow the opponent to hit it while it's already in Blade Form.

As if all of this wasn't bad enough, Incineroar's usage has been skyrocketing, a Pokémon that can easily neutralize Aegislash.

Obviously, Aegislash still has some insane stats and an outstanding signature move, so you could say it's a high risk high reward kind of Pokémon. An attack coming from it will always hurt and that's not a trait every Pokémon consistently has, but the goal of the game is to reduce the risk and increase the reward and, with Aegislash, you're often stuck on the high risk. For those reasons, I believe it is still a strong Pokémon that belongs on the relatively high tier of 3, but I can easily see it in tier 4.

Sorry for the wall of text, but this is something I felt like should be brought up and that many people wouldn't agree with if I didn't explain my thoughts properly.
 
Diancie to Tier 3 (or 2)
This mons is honestly incredible. Clear body + huge bulk allows it to run the weakness policy set very well and often just sweep through whole teams that have nothing for diamond storm. Diamond storm is busted too. It preys on the fact we have zygarde and its terribly weak ground stab running around as well as a number of steels like genesect that dont resist rock. We've seen it work on the Hippos full tr but also on slightly faster teams such as Talkingtrees. This should definitely be tier 3 but honestly I think the tier 2 description suits it pretty well.
 
Kingdra 3 -> 4

I'll keep this short and simple. Last I checked Kingdra was a rain team mon. The other big rain team mons, Pell and Swampert, are down in 4.
 

Checkmater

a pinned butterfly is no butterfly at all
Aegislash 2 -> 3
I've had a couple teams with aegis on it recently and I've honestly been fairly impressed by its ability to hold up in the current meta. I don't remember why I originally had it on the team but a fastish set ~200 speed stat (not evs) can outspeed most incineroar allowing for faster sub. The sub+wg set in particular lets it check both dragons to a degree, depending on if Zyg has groundium. Hoopa's nonexistence in the meta is also notable as it was the biggest Aegis check before. Essentially, Aegislash can do all the things a steel can do (check bulu, sit on something fast / neutrally hitting it like Tapu Koko and hit back, use its resists) but it gets the added benefit of not having to deal with Dark-types that can punish it. For example, imagine Aegislash vs a Hydreigon or a Hoopa: not only is Aegis pressured out but those hits are relatively hard to switch into. However, with these threats gone + having good fairies to switch to both help Aegis greatly. Its gengar matchup is nb simply because it can switch out and can also tank an sball, though it's difficult if the Gengar is sub itself, as this complicates predictions. Sure, there are prediction mindgames but taking sub lets you have agency in those mindgames, since you can predict an opp to protect to get you into Blade forme while you get a free sub and such.

I can see this going down simply due to lack of usage and since 2 is p high for it but I think it's alright in current meta imo.

Tapu Lele 2->3
Since Gengar and Manec are both popular, and steels are everywhere, I don't rly see why this is still tier 2. Psyspam is dead despite getting a suspect and it simply doesn't feel good to run Lele imo... maybe someone else can talk about how to use Lele and why it deserves tier 2.
 

Memoric

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Kingdra 3 -> 4

I'll keep this short and simple. Last I checked Kingdra was a rain team mon. The other big rain team mons, Pell and Swampert, are down in 4.
I'll keep this short and simple too: I'm not including a nom with wack reasoning like this rofl. Kingdra, with its lethality in rain, was deemed to be a 3-worthy Pokemon; Pelipper is in 4 if only because it's subpar outside of Drizzle, but this shouldn't necessarily cap Kingdra's viability as was already established. Kingdra is also easier to use and arguably better compared to Swampert as the lack of a Mega cost, ability to nuke with a (Z-)Hydro, and ability to hit for boosted Spread all still maintain the expected aggressiveness while giving up less. If you want to nom it down, tell me something about how it's now worse off as a threat in general or relative to the metagame instead lol
 

Memoric

XY DOU Apologist
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:bloblul:

Azumarill: 5 -> UR
Demantoid: no. It can still be threatening with the correct team and match up.

EmbCPT: no. It might not have the presence it used to but it still has access to Belly Drum, an outstanding ability and, just like Fini, amazing coverage with its STAB’s. The threat is just too present.

Kaori: no we just voted on this

MajorBowman: No, we just agreed to keep it in 5 and not much has changed. Still has potential to be a pretty good mon, just a little bit past its prime

Marilli: no this is pretty good pops up fairly often, and can end games single handedly. Ofc it’s super situational but it’s good enough for 5.

Memoric: No. This is still pretty potent and pops up often enough for me to be fine with this in 5.

Talkingtree: No, we just voted this to stay albeit without any written reasonings so I’ll try to sum it up quickly: Azu has the potential to be more threatening than almost any other Pokemon in the tier, though it takes a lot of support and solid play to get there. This might not get much usage but it needs to be respected and deserves a spot on the VR.

Rotom-W: 5 -> 4, 3
Demantoid: no. Everything about this pokemon is pretty mediocre. Typing doesn’t resist too much and bulk doesn’t let it take too many hits.

EmbCPT: Disagree. The fact that its only decent Water STAB is so inaccurate always made me look away from this Pokémon. I was never a fan of it as a bulky water either, since its HP stat is so low. Solid typing and stats in general, but not good anything for anything above 5.

Kaori: im fine with it in 4, i think its a lot better than people give it credit for personally

MajorBowman: Definitely not 3, I’d agree with 4. Underrated mon imo, electric + water with levitate is super good typing and it has some neat support options.

Marilli: no, rotoms a poor water that can’t check what a water type should (low acc water stab + not enough resources to commit to offense + weakness to thousand arrows + making it hard to use a second water = you’re forced choices on you), and a poor electric that can’t check well enough what an electric type should (fini). Ally switch makes this decent though but again not super reliable.

Memoric: stay in 5 lol, I honestly don’t see much of a reason to use this. Its niche is too oddly specific, p much outclassed by Zap I feel. The HP stat really holds it back.

Talkingtree: Absolutely not, this is better on paper than in practice for me and even on paper it’s not great. Wants to use all of Wisp / Volt Switch / Hydro / Ally Switch / Electroweb / Thunderbolt / Protect, which would make it okay I guess, but still not fantastic. It wants to be bulky support but has no HP or room on its moveset and the Flying-type resistance it has over Tapu Fini is hardly relevant anymore, especially since it loses Tapu Fini’s neutrality to Thousand Arrows.

Zapdos: 2 -> 1
Demantoid: no, most popular things have a positive or neutral match up against zap. Its natural bulk also isn’t as good as Suicune which is also a good tailwind setter that doesn’t stack as many weaknesses with pokemon like Zygarde, Tapu Bulu, Lando, Incineroar, and Kommo-o.

EmbCPT: Zapdos is truly an amazing Pokémon, but I don’t think it belongs in tier 1 right now. It does its job brilliantly, but it’s too one dimensional and Pokémon like Zygarde and Kommo-o are rising in popularity, two set up mons that check Zapdos pretty well.

Kaori: no, not really the sort of metagame defining threat you look for in a t1 mon

MajorBowman: No, it’s super good at what it does but not such a dominating force that it belongs in 1

Marilli: no, while its hard counters are rare in number they are still such a prominent part of the metagame. It also gets soft countered fairly often and put in bad pins.

Memoric: 2. It’s good and all but I don’t think it’s at that point in dominance to be a Tier 1 Pokemon.

Talkingtree: Stay 2. Zapdos is solid but it doesn’t really do enough to reach T1

Aegislash: 2 -> 3
Demantoid: yes, voted for this last time it was nommed

EmbCPT: I made the nom, so yeah.

Kaori: aegislash functions best in bulkier metas where it can use its defensive capabilities to lock down winning positions, this meta is however not one of those and offering free setup turns as it does can turn a winning position into a losing one. I still think its more of a 2.5 since its significantly better than the mons in 3 but i’d say 3 for now

MajorBowman: Reluctantly agree. I still think aegislash is super good, but the way the meta has shifted means that a lot of things that beat it are pretty high up in usage. I could definitely see it moving back up to 2 at some point, but 3 is probably where it belongs right now

Marilli: 3. Meta is infested with super effective moves like zyg / incin / gengar. And sub has been nearly impossible to pull off because of it -- and as edu said without sub and super effective moves on the board it’s forced into bad risk situations where it usually ends up losing a lot of tempo.

Memoric: 3, I don’t really feel Aegi much in this meta. Its tank n spankiness isn’t really as fit for this environment + Incin being common is a pain.

Talkingtree: 2, though I must say: When Edu brought this up in Discord, I was pretty strongly against the nom but could see someone thinking it was 3. However, after reading his post, I’m actually somewhat torn on how to vote. Even though it represents an opinion different from mine, I’m still going to point you to his nom for a pretty solid explanation of Aegislash’s place in the meta. I personally think the positive matchups, flexibility, and potential for high reward keep Aegislash at a 2, but I wouldn’t be surprised or confused to see it drop.

Diancie: 4 -> 3, 2
Demantoid: 3. Good match up against a lot common pokemon. Being a fairy that doesn’t lose to Mega Gengar easily is also good, and it offers a TR setter with alternative typing from most setters.

EmbCPT: 3. Amazing offensive coverage for the state of the meta, but steel types are still too annoying for it so not good enough for 2.

Kaori: 3, others stated it pretty well but its in a good place given the current meta

MajorBowman: My first thought was remain 4 but after reading everyone else’s resounding approval I’m second guessing myself pretty hard. Gonna abstain just because I feel like I don’t know enough to vote but also because it’s definitely moving to 3 so it doesn’t matter lol

Marilli: 3 is good, rock is hard to resist and it’s a centerpiece of TR teams.

Memoric: 3. I think it’s one of the top TR setters currently, if only really because it’s a piece that can give the finger to the Clanger. Offensive coverage is great too and when a Diancie is still up n healthy a game’s never over lol. Better meta for it which is cool so yea.

Talkingtree: 3, almost nommed this myself. Diancie’s *clearly* better than its Mega counterpart and does work every game. Read AuraRayquaza’s nom for my full thoughts, summed it up well

Tapu Lele: 2 -> 3
Demantoid: No, I think it is the worst Tapu right now but both the scarf and bulky sets are still threatening and psy terrain is more important now with Incineroar being good.

EmbCPT: Disagree. I’m honestly not a huge fan of Lele, but its offensive pressure is absurd.

Kaori: no, this is will always be incredibly threatening and guessing its set wrong can easily cost you the game

MajorBowman: No, even though I think it’s pretty clearly not the best tapu it still has a pretty important place in the meta. It has super high damage output potential and psychic terrain itself is pretty busted

Marilli: abstain. Its threatening in theory but in practice you just don’t see it at all and gets trapped and loses to the metagame.

Memoric: no. I did kind of consider letting this drop, but personally I feel like it’s more of a “low 2” kind of thing. It’s still a pretty brazy offensive mon that applies to much pressure. The scarf set (which imo p much the way for it rn) p much gets the job done at applying pressure and checking stuff like manes, koko, boosted clanger, and gar without being easy to pick off, and that set is still p fine for it i feel. All in all, it can still get the job done and is p threatening enough still for a 2 spot.

Talkingtree: abstain (for now, might change this later). The only sets I think have merit right now are scarf and bulky (enough to take a Timid Gengar Sludge Bomb), as they actually have a chance at beating Gengar. I’m not quite sure why Check mentioned Mane in his nom, but Steels + the rise of Modest Gengar that I don’t quite understand definitely push this lower. I still think the support it provides as either a scalpel to remove threats or a bulky Taunt user that prevents priority is valuable, but at this point it’s the worst Tapu and I could understand a drop to 3.

VR Shifts

Aegislash: 2 -> 3
Diancie: 4 -> 3

Demantoid's justifications for his votes will be edited in later. The next VR Shift will be on July 15.

Edit 6/28/18: Put in Demantoid's justifications for his votes.
 
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talkingtree

A VSCO girl, but also a camboy
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Doubles Captain
Landorus-I UR -> 5

Now that I've used it I can safely nom this and say how good of a spot Lando-I is in right now. Earth Power 2HKOes pretty much everything that isn't Ground-immune, HP Ice takes on Lando-T and Zygarde, and your choice of coverage helps out the rest of the team - Rock Slide for Zard, Sludge Bomb for Bulu/Lele/Fini, even something like Psychic, Stealth Rock, Sub, or U-turn could be okay. Watch my set against AuraRayquaza, I used it in games 1 and 3 and it did a ton of work both times.

The biggest thing that makes Landorus-I better now than it used to be is that the opportunity cost of not being able to use Landorus-T isn't as great now that Incineroar is around. It's considerably stronger than the standard Earth Power Landorus-T, and benefits greatly from that base 101 Speed tier, being able to outspeed offensive Kyu-B, AV Genesect, Charizard Y, and a variety of other threats. I know Nido-Rus has also used this to decent effect, even with alternative items from Life Orb, though I wouldn't typically advise that. I could even see this in Tier 4, but I don't really have enough experience with it or consistency to nom it there.
 
Lando-I

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-769792749

Landorus-I UR -> 5

Now that I've used it I can safely nom this and say how good of a spot Lando-I is in right now. Earth Power 2HKOes pretty much everything that isn't Ground-immune, HP Ice takes on Lando-T and Zygarde, and your choice of coverage helps out the rest of the team - Rock Slide for Zard, Sludge Bomb for Bulu/Lele/Fini, even something like Psychic, Stealth Rock, Sub, or U-turn could be okay. Watch my set against AuraRayquaza, I used it in games 1 and 3 and it did a ton of work both times.

The biggest thing that makes Landorus-I better now than it used to be is that the opportunity cost of not being able to use Landorus-T isn't as great now that Incineroar is around. It's considerably stronger than the standard Earth Power Landorus-T, and benefits greatly from that base 101 Speed tier, being able to outspeed offensive Kyu-B, AV Genesect, Charizard Y, and a variety of other threats. I know Nido-Rus has also used this to decent effect, even with alternative items from Life Orb, though I wouldn't typically advise that. I could even see this in Tier 4, but I don't really have enough experience with it or consistency to nom it there.
I'll nom it for 4. Somthing I'd like to add is a lot of teams way of dealing with ground type mons/coverage is bulu, which lando-I can OHKO with sludge bomb. it can also 2HKO AV incineroar, 2HKO AV gene (without a ton of HP investment), although it does require resurrection support in order to deal with them (hi amoonguss). Here's a couple replays with me experamenting with it and it did pretty well.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-769926214

Tapu fini 1->2

Same reason as before but I think I should go into more detail.
Mega gengar, which is extreamly common, can 2HKO it with sludge bomb. Bulu is gaining a lot of popularity and can completely demolish fini, and gain health doing so by using horn leech) Mega metagross can 3HKO it with zen headbutt/iron head, and 2HKO it with thunder punch (if cairied). Zapdos with elec-Z is becoming much more common and it can OHKO fini without a ton of investment. Mega manetric can hit it hard with volt switch, or use snarl in order to lower its already somewhat mediocre special attack. It's 95 base special attack also does give it a hard time taking things out, it can (sometimes) 3HKO AV incineroar with no special def investment with muddy water (If muddy water hits). It will also be 2KOed by KyuBs fusion bolt (although kyub can't switch into fini).
Koko can also OHKO it with tbolt holding orb, and 2HKO it without one.
It also has trouble with a lot of less used mons like kartana, rotom-W, ferro, gene with thunderbolt/energy ball).
Sorry this is a bit of a ramble but hopefully it still gets across my thoughts

Zeraora UR-> 2
Annoyingly fast, ability to run phiscal, special, or mixed sets, plasma fists op... I'm only starting at tier 2 but I think it could be tier 1 material or possibly be the next marsh
 
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Memoric

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Forgive me for forgetting about this, but we've done the scheduled lower tier maintenance votes as promised! This should have been up on the 5th but your homie got too tired enrolling to college since it's like a 3 hour trip to get there, hope y'all can let this slide as this was all my bad. Anywho, here are the votes!

Changes:

Excadrill - 4-> 5
Necrozma - 4 -> 5
Politoed - 5 -> 4
Porgyon2 - 5 -> 4

The next formal VR shift will be on the 15th, and the next lower tier sweep will be on the 5th day of next month as always. Again, sorry for the delay and have a good one!
 

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