Resource USUM NU Viability Rankings (Old)

[Rabia]

With this argument in mind, shouldn't Vanilluxe drop down to A as well? Vanilluxe has arguably worse defensive utility than Sceptile due to it's Stealth Rock weakness, but it's immense wallbreaking prowess has kept it in A+ (and I'm pretty sure it was S, too). Sorry I don't have much to add, but this argument stuck out a bit to me.

Also, Decidueye should drop. This thing's usage literally halved since August so if that isn't telling you how far out of favor it's fallen, I don't really know what does. The Defensive set is good but I think it's flaws are too frequently exploited to justify it staying A.

Vani is different in the sense it doesn't face competition from other mons of its typing for its role. the competition is what forces me to believe Sceptile shouldn't rise any higher than A because it just isn't better than them. Vani is also strictly better as a wallbreaker in my opinion due to being significantly harder to wall and its checks being overall easier to break through than Sceptile's so it isn't like we're looking at two equals here. If Vanilluxe was just as good at wallbreaking, then I'd be hard-pressed to deny a Vanilluxe drop; however, it isn't. We've also seen adaptations to Vani like Toxic (and Taunt I guess) to assist it in bypassing answers like Miltank and Incineroar in the long run (Taunt applying more to the former), further demonstrating its superior wallbreaking capabilities.

 

[Kingler]

Yeah it's not comparable situations; Vani is significantly stronger and has an easily spammable stab, + hail chip is useful for wearing down counters/RKers. It just provides more direct wall breaking power, while sceptile is more against specific builds and certain Pokemon (like vileplume) can simply stonewall it. Vanilluxe doesn't really have great counters like that, at the cost of being much slower.

 

[Espeonage.]

delphox----> a-/a
the firefox has seen a p big uptick in usage recently, and i def think its ranking should reflect that. its defensive utility can be rly nice with the rise of usage in things like comfey, sceptile, and still relatively high usage of stuff like ice cream and whims. subtoxtect phox is rly great rn bc u can beat things like roar that u normally struggle w, and put pressure on a lot of builds, esp if they dont have a xatu so u can click tox freely, scarf, while being bait for things like roar and diancie, is a splashable scarfer w good utility that offensive teams v much appreciate and is def more justifiable than it was in say, sand meta. wish phox has seen a bit of a spike in usage as well, w stuff like scept being so prominent, notably i also think it has some good utility in stall, being a great check to some threats to that archetype, mainly magmortar and vanilluxe but also things like medi altho its only a check to that since hjk does a ton, and comf, overalll i find myself using this mon more and more, and i def think it justifies a rise to a- or even a, and should def be above all other fire types bar roar.

accelgor---> b/b+
i think accelgor is p great rn, and its rankings should def reflect that. its crazy speed is rly great in this meta bc of things like scept and lisk being so great, notably outspeeding scarf pass which is crazy important. it can def punish alot of its switchins w its coverage ie eballing diancie and fblasting steels. spikes are a great thing rn, esp when this mon has such a great xatu mu. only thing holding it back that much in the current meta is broken ass comf, altho that can def be circumvented. personally only used specs altho fight z is good, and this mon has seen some decent snake usage so ye, rise to b or b+ imo.

plume--->a
im a big advocate of the broken plume, and this mon should def be higher than b+ for me. most of the offensive threats rising in this meta, ie passimian, comfey, heliolisk and sceptile are checked well by sp def plume and its def been picking up more usage to reflect this. this mon is prob the most annoying mon in the tier to face, and everyone knows what it does, paralyse for pass, poison your roar, etc, and honestly for a defensive mon it can be a big threat in some games i feel. overall plumes broke rise it.

klinklang--->b+
i nommed this down a while ago and things have only got worse for it. the drop of toad, sustained usage of mons like pass and lix, notably alot more bros have gone back to physdef from av, which hinders this mon even more, and things it can beat defensively such as whims are at a slump in usage. overall not that great a mon that isnt rly seen much anymore, drop imo.

seismitoad---->a-

to me, this mon p clearly belongs in a-. its still what it always was, a solid and splashable rocker, sub tox sets can def be annoying for some builds, etc. prob worse than it was before bc bros now run av a lot which runs gknot, no more boar for it to check, but at the same time roar is a lot more prominent and its a decent lisk check. having an ok xat mu is also nice. so ye- a- imo.

also wanna support scept rising, decid not dropping, whims dropping, idt anyones nommed it but vika could prib rise but i dont wanna write any more, comf going to a, lisk going to s, tort going to a-, and pass staying a+.

 

[WMAR]

Hello all my name is Wmar. I have been playing NU since alpha but i never really got into the community but that’s going to change here when i post some noms so lets see how i do. I asked for some opinions on the discord and got some feedback on some so lets do this shall we

Torterra from B to A
Man this is my favorite pokemon to use right now. Amazing bulk, great sets, and an amazing check to the broke heliolisk. I am so happy that this mon got explored more and time and time again it keeps getting better. This mon is way too good to be so low rank in B so putting it to A is great. Personally i like rocks sd, as it can break incineroar and slowbro while having bulk to take on heliolisk and man what a rocker it is. Tho it has problems with xatu and the busted ice cream, it has stellar matchups vs other rockers making it a phenomenal wall and rocker for the team. A as i said feels like the best place to nom this and others agree

Aromatisse from B+ to B-
Honestly was hyped when Aromatisse got nasty plot and has been my favorite sweeper ever since. But when comfey dropped, ferroseed on the rise and incineroar being better, Aromatisse feel down that everyone agrees its a worse comfey. Comfey has better ability allowing it to check the rising Passimian and slowbro with good bulk, Aromatisse hasn’t seen the light of day. B- is proving that aromatisse has its niche but being in B+ with mons like magmortar, i feel its not worth being that high

Seismitoad to A-
Finally the Froggy is back and couldn’t come at a better time. Checking heliolisk and incineroar is an amazing feat and setting up rocks is fantastic, while having an amazing ability in water absorb checking water types. Man I haven’t seen this mon since before emboar got banned and it can run good coverage. A- is a great start since this proves how great of a mon this is and a good homecoming

Klinklang from A to A-/B+
Honestly with all the meta trends and seismitoad coming back, this bunch of gears lost its prominence as soon as incineroar became Mufasa of NU. Poor coverage means not having much and not even z moves can help when you get walled by common mons like steelix and torterra. Klinklang is good, don’t get me wrong but being A isn’t a good fit for a sad state of where klinklang is at.

Exeggutor-Alola from C+ to B+
This nom is kinda echoing from other people and imo is long overdue, i heavily agree with this. This is my favorite specs user in the tier and any predictions i make is always worth it. Theres nothing that can switch in this monster and hell i can argue for A-, personally i feel its that amazing. C+ is offending this mons potential and people need to know how great Alolan Eggy is. Its trick room draconium set is good for imo not that viable trick room teams but hey offensive trick room is still king but specs imo is better and please coucil do us eggy fans the favor on putting this B+.

Now i hope i did these noms correctly since this is my first nom for NU and I don’t expect to do very well since i am inexperienced but i hope you guys learned from this and lets spark some discussion. Hope you guys have a wonderful day

 

[Davon]

I disagree with Klinklang dropping. While you might think Seismitoad dropping is bad for Klinklang, I think it’s actually neutral for Klinklang’s viability. Seismitoad has the same role as Steelix in most teams, so you will almost never see them on the same team. Seismitoad is easier to lure than Steelix, and with Seismitoad replacing Steelix in most builds I think it actually makes building teams with Klinklang easier because you can just pair it with any Pokémon that gets a grass coverage move (every special attacker).

 

[banks]

nu viability rankings update | october 17th, 2018

spreadsheet
​

here's a summary of rises and drops:

rises

Sceptile A -> A+
Vaporeon B+ -> A-
Aerodactyl C+ -> B
Exeggutor-Alola C+ -> B+
Druddigon B -> B+
Charizard UR -> C-
Vikavolt B+ -> A-
Delphox B -> B+
Xatu A- -> A+
Torterra B -> A-
Heliolisk A+ -> S
Vivillon B+ -> A-
Vileplume B+ -> A-
Accelgor B- -> B+
Seismitoad UR -> A-

drops

Klinklang A -> B+
Ludicolo C- -> UR
Malamar B- -> C+
Hitmonlee B -> C
Medicham A -> A-
Audino-Mega A- -> B+
Cryogonal B -> B-
Piloswine B+ -> B
Aromatisse B+ -> B-
Scyther B- -> C+
Jellicent C+ -> UR
Mesprit C+ -> C
Uxie C -> D
Regice C -> UR
Shuckle C- -> UR
Type: Null B -> B-
Hariyama A -> B
Decidueye A -> B+
Whimsicott A -> A-

heyo, i'm filling in for rozes as he was unable to complete the slate this weekend. considering there was 51 pokemon voted on, i won't be going over every single one individually, but briefly explain why some pokemon had some significant changes. also earth sat out for this vote, so any tie we had we ranked the mon closest to what it was previously.

Heliolisk is now S rank due to many different factors. One of them being as mentioned before in my post on the previous page, Snake Draft really gave Heliolisk a higher platform for spotlight, and more people began to realise how menacing it is to face with it's wide range of viable coverage options to really nail its typical checks. Also pressuring opponents with Volt Switch + coverage, making them hesitant to actually go to mons like Steelix, Rhydon etc and instead force them to take chip on another mon from volt.

Seismitoad has been placed at A- as it's proven itself very quickly to be a good special sponge and blocking Electric attacks right now gives it a lot more use on teams. Also Water Absord + ability to throw out Toxics and Scalds pretty freely just make this mon an absolute pain to face. However, Seismitoad does have the downfall of not being able to really "check" anything, it's rather just a sponge than a solid defensive check, stuff like Specs Hyper Voice and Swords Dance Incineroar can plough through slower variants. Offensive sets are also viable options, with good coverage lying in Grass Knot and Sludge Wave or even physical options like Ice Punch, toad has certainly made an entrance to the tier.

Discussion Points:

• Seismitoad's ranking
• Rhydon -> A+
• Exeggutor-Alola -> A-
• anything you want!

 

[Kingler]

Rhydon is great for the better incineroar matchup but A+ seems too generous. I feel like steelix is generally better; it's got more of a fighting chance vs sceptile, vanilluxe and heliolisk (I'm not saying it's a counter or even a check by any means, but it is not forced out at full). It's obviously great to be better vs xatu and the cat and have a stronger EQ, but that doesn't outweigh passive recovery, a better typing, and better matchups vs a lot of threatening breakers imo. I think it's a good fit for A, but not A+ material.

also steelix means shit klinklang and shit comfey don't sweep you!

 

[Punchshroom]

Considering Incineroar, Dhelmise, and Guzzlord's current positions as well as Vikavolt's recent rise, the metagame is quite favorable to slow bulky holepunchers that have the typing to be able to switch in on the bulkier Pokemon in the meta, as well as check some offensive ones. Alolan Eggy is no exception, and much like the other slow holepunchers it boasts perfect neutral coverage with just 3 attacks, with its access to not 1, but 2 stupid powerful STAB nukes making it an utter nightmare to switch into. To put it into perspective, Choice Specs Leaf Storm cleanly OHKOes max HP Comfey, while Choice Specs Draco Meteor / Devastating Drake OHKOes Bulk Up Braviary after SR. Even SpD Alolan Sandslash takes like 44% minimum from a Specs boosted nuke. These are among the sturdiest offensive Alolan Eggy checks in the tier, and they get absolutely destroyed by a single misstep, meaning that an Alolan Eggy that has been given free reign to wreak havoc is very difficult to contain without losing a mon.

Heliolisk's dominance has caused Ground usage to rise, and Alolan Eggy adores the increased presence of Seismitoad, Steelix, and Torterra; its fearlessness of Scald burn, 4x Grass resistance, and its hefty weight minimizing Heavy Slam damage just make it all the more convenient for neckboi to take advantage of them. Its numerous 4x resistances to Water, Grass, and Electric all come in handy to check other offensive threats too, such as Choice-locked Grass and Electric moves from Sceptile & Heliolisk as well as AV Slowbros that are forgoing Ice Beam for other coverage moves that are less dangerous to neckboi. Alolan Eggy also happens to be faster than most of its wallbreaker brethren, which is more important than ever to maintain the offensive advantage. Furthermore, Alolan Eggy has another trick up its neck in the form of Trick Room, giving it a significant niche as a holepuncher that can potentially double up as a lategame cleaner, something that the other wallbreakers cannot claim, so it's something to keep in the back of your mind.

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Alolan Eggy even jump up to A alongside Dhelmise and Guzzlord too; Heliolisk's prominence and Seismitoad's return are just that favorable of meta trends for it.

 

[Funbot28]

A -> A+
I definetely feel Rhydon is on par with Steelix nowadays especially with the influx of Big Cat and Xatu which Rhydon can handle much better compared to other common Rockers such as the aforementioned Steelix and Torterra. Both its SD sets or other sets which include useful coverage to lure in common checks (such as Fire Punch for Ferro and Megahorn for the Slowbro) also makes it quite the customizable threat that can do more then just set rocks each game. Heliolisk's coverage in combination with the rise of threats such as Sceptile, Exeggutor-A, and the recent drop of Seismitoad doesn't do it any favours, but judging its impact on the hazard game alone in conjunction with its solid bulk and great power leaves me to believe that Rhydon is an all around great threat that deserves a rise. Double Dance sets are also quite threatening and should be used more imo.

Stay at A-
Toad is a great rocker that can check quite a number of threats such as Incineroar, certain Heliolisk's lacking Grass Knot (although most do nowadays) and Delphox. The only issue I have with it is that it can be worn down rather quickly due to lack of reliable recovery in tandem with its average bulk which only enables to take a certain amount of hits before being whittled down too much. Offensive sets are still something I need to explore more and is something I do see merit in due to Toad's great coverage, but the rise in Grass-types in general still does not do it any favors currently.

B+ -> A-/A
After personally using it myself due to all the hype I had been hearing about it, I can definetely agree that Exeggutor-A is an amazing wallbreaker right now that can tear apart the common balance cores of Steelix + Slowbro or Vileplume + Seismitoad. It differentiates itself from other wallbreakers with its useful defensive typing and bulk which offers it many switchin oppurtunities combined with its Speed which just gives it enough to outpace the majority of walls in the metagame when invested. As mentioned previously, its coverage is perfect with 3 moves solely while other sets like OTR and even maybe SD can have some potency as well. Please rise.

My own noms:

A- -> A
I know it just rised, but I feel Vivillon can be risen even more in the A rankings due to how threatening Sleep + boosted Hurricanes are in the current metagame. Besides Xatu, Vivillon really lacks much counterplay with Sleep into QD as the grass types that would want to switch into Sleep Powder get bopped by Hurricane. Speaking of Xatu, its prominence has helped Viv deal with its #1 form of counterplay in SR, where most common setters that are used to combat the totem bird can be taken advantage of from Viv (Sleep for Druddigon, Energy Ball for Rhydon and Seismitoad, etc..).

Omastar and Articuno can also probably do with a rise, but wont get into that now

 

[Project_Mars]

Dhelmise A --> B
There is nothing Dhelmise can do that Decidueye can't do better. Since Decidueye is now ranked B, it's only fitting to move this slow, surprisingly frail and ineffectual Pokémon down too.

 

[King Roma]

Dhelmise A --> B
There is nothing Dhelmise can do that Decidueye can't do better. Since Decidueye is now ranked B, it's only fitting to move this slow, surprisingly frail and ineffectual Pokémon down too.

While I don't think it should go to B, A- or B+ definitely, again it's way too slow and fragile to do his job, even with the great attack stat Alolan exeggutor does a much better job because of that extra speed IMO

Speaking of which, Alolan Exeggutor IMO is better than guzzlord: yes, beast boost is great, and yes, on neutrals guzzlord is tankier, but
1 Better stats overall, instead of having it all on HP Humpty Dumpty has an amazing special attack stat and has every other stat in general higher than guzzlord
2 3 4x resistances to extremely common types make this mon pretty easy to switch in
3 this thing has 2 nukes
4(ish) it has recovery (although it's not that great)
5 it has trick room, so it can actually be a sweeper
A material, and I'd probably drop Guzzlord to A-

Lastly Rhydon
I don't think I need to say it for the 3rd time, but i wouldn't make it rise

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

What made Decidueye and Dhelmise bad?

 

[kay]

What made Decidueye and Dhelmise bad?

Nothing made Dhelmise bad, and we're not moving it down to B lol. As for Decidueye the metas just too fast for it to sweep, it doesn't force enough out to set up thanks to its low raw power before boosting, and the results you get with it when set up are still pretty lack luster.

Dhelmise A --> B
There is nothing Dhelmise can do that Decidueye can't do better. Since Decidueye is now ranked B, it's only fitting to move this slow, surprisingly frail and ineffectual Pokémon down too.

Okay so if your entire basis for moving Dhelmise down is because its worse then Decidueye, then I'd like you actually play with both mons and tell me how they're anything similar. Dhelmise is a choice band wall breaker with few switches ins, and Decidueye is a set up sweeper whose easily revenge killed, can't force anything out to set up, and is isn't very strong before setting up. They're hardly similar past their typing. Next time you make a post please provide more substance then just "lol this mon sux and is out classed by this mon that has nothing in common with it role wise."

 

[etern]

Anyone else that posts uninformed / one-liners in this thread is getting infracted. Please make sure your posts have actual substance so we can have genuine discussion and leave any questions for the PS! room or Simple Answers thread.

 

[Rabia]

A- -> A / maybe A+
ok so just a disclaimer here: I get that we're having a suspect test rn, and that it probably isn't the best time to make nominations here. but I don't really think that the plumer is gonna get negatively impacted by either possible result. this nomination could look dumb in a month or so, but that's the risk of doing it now!

I genuinely believe Vileplume is one of the best defensive Pokemon in the current meta. Yes, it just got a rise; however, I don't believe A- to reflect Vileplume's current state in the tier. It's one of the few decent switch-ins to Heliolisk while also checking other prominent, obnoxious offensive Pokemon like Sceptile and Comfey. Thanks to its fine physical defense too, it's able to still retain value as a stop to physical Pokemon like Passimian and Scrafty. I think the best set right now is Giga Drain / Sludge Bomb / Moonlight / filler, with my favorite filler being Growth. Moonlight is honestly required right now to actually check Heliolisk consistently, and Growth is a cute option to give defensively inclined teams hell. I really feel like pushing for A+ right now for Vileplume because its defensive utility is just so damn appreciated right now, but A would be a good rise too. Regardless, this Pokemon is the GOAT right now.

 

[Yoshi]

-> A/A+
I definitely have to agree with this nomination, recently I’ve found Vileplume extremely hard to deal with, and it surprises me that the mere increased presence of Heliolisk has made it more popular. In most instances, Vileplume is extremely annoying to deal with, to the point where you really need some super effective damage to kill it. Therefore, you’ll have to keep your Pokemon like Braviary and Incineroar alive, both of which are weak to Stealth Rock and are quickly worn down by Sludge Bomb damage. It’s quite unbelievable how unkillable this mon is if the user is playing it right. Some people may make the argument that Xatu inhibits Vileplume from performing well, but all you have to do is poison it with Sludge Bomb, and that is something that is easier to do, especially when Xatu are running Night Shade way more often than Psychic these days. Vileplume can also run Moonlight, as well as running Strength Sap on some sets, allowing you to recover on a variety of different Pokemon while not worrying about getting quickly worn down by Xatu that may sacrifice itself to kill off the Vileplume. Moonlight is also great for Braviary, which may want to try and switch in on a Strength Sap as well. With this in mind, I think Vileplume should go to A, but perhaps it could definitely rise to A+ in the near future if it keeps up this kind of effectiveness.

-> A-
Here’s my own nomination. I think Magmortar is kind of underrated amongst those who do not play NU as often as people like myself, and I definitely think it shouldn’t be. Quziel introduced me to Choice Specs Magmortar, which is an incredibly wallbreaker, probably both on and off Hyper Offense. This is so effective because of Magmortar’s cool coverage, having both Focus Blast and Thunderbolt. The recent addition of Seismitoad isn’t too bad either, as you’re able to just click Hidden Power Grass on that, so it isn’t really too big of a problem I’ve found. While Choice Specs Magmortar is good, I still think that Assault Vest is a little better. It gives you a good Vanilluxe check, and can also deal with Vivillon if super necessary. Personally, I’m not the biggest fan of Fightinium-Z, mainly because I just want Magmortar to be bulkier. Fightinium is good too though, as it can easily OHKO Incineroar from full. To summarize, I think Magmortar should rise because people underestimate its overall capabilities.

 

[Gefährlicher Random]

C+ --> B

I think Togedemaru is really underrated rn. The only really viable set is scarf atm but i think Scarf Togedemaru fits on many teams as it solves the Heliolisk problem in teams without ground types, revenge kills fast flying types (like Vivilon, Golbat or Oricorio variants) which are good imo bc they dont get revenged by Passimian. Also Toge has access to U-Turn and Encore which are really good tools for a scarfer. Band can be a cool set too although i doenst fit on many teams.

 

[Ethereal Balls]

Comfey

A- -> A/A+ Rank

This is an iconic flower Pokemon in NU. Without a Steel/Poison type in your team (or Incineroar) your team is going to get swept by this thing. It's a dangerous Pokemon in the NU metagame with its ability, moves, typing, and its overall stats. I feel that low balling it to the A rank will perfectly demonstrate how amazing this Pokemon really is. Its really one of the best of the best Fairy types and special wallbreakers to exist here.

Magmortar

B+ -> A-/A

Shout out to Yoshizilla315 for firstly introducing this nomination, for it inspired me to make a nomination for this Pokemon too. Boy oh boy what do I have to say, I've been playing with this Pokemon for a couple of weeks and I honestly can say this a premier Fire-Type in NU right now! Although it competes with Incineroar as a Fire-Type as of this moment, its capable of wallbreaking through some offensive and bulky teams with its great 125 Sp.Attack, decent 83 Speed for Bulky Teams that try to even outpace people prepared for Incineroar. Its got amazing coverage like Focus Blast and Thunderbolt to take care of bulky Waters that Incineroar has trouble dealing with and Taunt to handle thicc Pokemons and stall Pokemons. An A- or A rank can show how effective this Pokemon can be in the meta right now.

Vileplume

A- -> A

Credit for Rabia for motivating me to make this statement. Although it competes with some Grass type Pokemon like Sceptile and Whimsicott for a slot in the team, it holds a niche that's incredible for bulky teams and balanced ones too. Its got a great defensive typing of Grass/Poison, leaving it with handy resistances like Water, Fighting, Grass, Electric, and Fairy (which are great types in the meta), has reliable recovery, and decent Sp.Attack to dwindle walls. It deals with most of the Pokemon commonly seen in the meta such as Comfey, Passimian, Heliolisk, Whimsicott (watch out for Psychic), and Rotom. Just the cons of using it is it's kind of passive and it gets thrown down by Ice types like Sneasel and Vanilluxe and Fire types like Magmortar, Delphox, Houndoom, and Incineroar.

 

[Rabia]

A+ -> S- / S

A+ -> S-
Yeah, we don't have an S- rank, but I feel both of these Pokemon are far above the rest of A+ and should be placed above them. It should be relatively clear why both are at the moment the best A+ Pokemon: Passimian is the most dominating Choice Scarf user in the tier and is quite centralizing in the sense that it can get really difficult to justify using other Fighting-type Pokemon on many archetypes because of how good it is. I know some people believe Passimian's usage mainly stems from lazy teambuilding, but you could say the same about Slowbro and some other Pokemon; they're just really easy to use and fit on many teams, hence their commonness. On the other hand, Xatu has made coinflips the norm once again. Although there exist many entry hazard setters capable of beating Xatu, merely the presence of this Pokemon inhibits their ability to set hazards. Sure, you can make the Xatu read every time, but that doesn't mean you're going to actually ever catch Xatu. It has arguably the most influence in any game it is in simply because it dictates the hazard game so effectively. I won't bother with going into all the techs and shit that this Pokemon used to crawl its way back into high viability, but they are certainly a testament to its versatility and ability to adapt to the metagame almost at will.

Again, the main reason I am suggesting an S- rank for these two is because I find them a significant cut above the rest of A+ due to their effectiveness at their roles and prominence within the current metagame; Xatu is super easy to see given its success and usage in Snake Draft, while Passimian has been steady ever since like, Emboar's ban. The main reason I am not hard nominating both to S is because 1) Passimian just got blockead a raise, and I don't see it going up, and 2) I'm still not sure if Xatu is on the level of our current S-rank Pokemon, although I slashed its nomination with a rise to S because it is certainly one of the most influential Pokemon in the tier to a different extent than Passimian. While there are certainly other Pokemon I feel you could justify an argument to S for (Vanilluxe and Diancie being the two), I feel at the end of the day, they don't bend the metagame as much as Xatu and Passimian do.

If VR council doesn't wanna do an S- rank, then just take this bit as nominating Xatu to S rank lol.

B+ -> A-
Neckboy has finally been awoken. There isn't really a whole lot to say about metagame trends that helped it, nor really even tournament play seeing as how it got like a grand total of 4 games in Snake Draft lol.. but if you wanna look at why the current metagame helps it, here's what I see: it can easily break through the current blanket specially defensive walls in Incineroar and Vileplume (among others); the rise of physdef Bro in favor of AV Bro means Alolan Eggy has more opportunities to come in; special walls that can deal with it like Type: Null and Mega Audino aren't very prevalent; it literally comes in on any hazard setter and synergizes really well with common pivots like Incineroar and Passimian because of what they tend to draw in. The only two problems this Pokemon really has are competition with other Grass-type wallbreakers (Sceptile mainly) and a poor Speed tier, but the sheer power this Pokemon packs is more than enough to warrant a rise imo.

B -> B+
I get that it's somewhat annoying to use Scrafty due to Comfey's and Passimian's prominence, although the Chople Berry Bulk Up set is really fun and lets it actually beat Passimian. I think most other sets are ass which does definitely limit Scrafty's potential, but this set in particular is a cool tech that lets it function much better in the metagame.

C -> C+
the slate before last I stg it had 7/12 votes for C+ or higher. give it its proper rank kthx. z move lure sets are definitely a cool niche tho.

 

[ryan]

i think that vanilluxe should be S rank, it is a very strong pkmn and it was good in xy even tho people said it wasn't, also the only freeze dry resist above B+ is incineroar i think (idk what a dhelmise is) and it was bad the last time i played iirc

 

[Yasuo]

i think that vanilluxe should be S rank, it is a very strong pkmn and it was good in xy even tho people said it wasn't, also the only freeze dry resist above B+ is incineroar i think (idk what a dhelmise is) and it was bad the last time i played iirc

Vanilluxe didn't have Snow Warning in Gen 6. This post doesn't state any important changes to Vanilluxe in the current metagame and why are you even referring to Freeze Dry although Blizzard is the move that makes Vanilluxe so good.

Guess this is a joke message

 

[Ethereal Balls]

Vanilluxe didn't have Snow Warning in Gen 6. This post doesn't state any important changes to Vanilluxe in the current metagame and why are you even referring to Freeze Dry although Blizzard is the move that makes Vanilluxe so good.

Guess this is a joke message

That's a true statement to be said about this situation. He posted a one liner which is against the rules of this fourm, but I won't make a big deal out of it. The thing with Vanilluxe is that it had good stats before, just not a good amount of moves to compliment its good stats. In Gen 6, it got Freeze Dry, a big buff for Ice types, they can now reliably nail most Water-types with STAB, it did buff Vanilluxe, but it didn't do enough to rise as a top tier Ice-Type. When it got Snow Warning in Gen 7, that made a High Base Power Ice move (Blizzard) viable on Vanilluxe, making it have a niche over other Ice-Types and it didn't have 7 Weaknesses unlike Abomasnow and had faster speed than it. Just saying, the Ice-Type is a great offensive typing to have which made it rise to promienece.

Now onto what ryan said, in likewise I think I may agree with Vanilluxe rising, because its incredibly hard to switch into it (unless you got Piloswine, any Fire-Type (bar HP Ground), Steel types (bar Steelix), its great STAB no-miss Blizzard, Freeze-Dry, and a good coverage move in Flash Cannon with some Hidden Powers. However, the ever present Incineroar in the meta keeps Vanilluxe from making havoc in the meta. So since beyond this I think it should rise to A+ -> S-/S. You may not agree but S-/S rank should be used because it reflects on its effect on the meta and almost no Pokemon viable in the NU meta can switch into its coverage or its STAB moves.

 

[Jisoo]

hi, I wanted to respond to discussion points and post some other thoughts.

Seismitoad: Fine where it is

Tbh, I think Seismitoad is fine in A-. The defensive set really isn't that good because a) Emboar doesn't exist, b) many of the things you want to check can run coverage (Lisk Grass Knot comes to mind), and c) you really struggle to get Rocks up vs Xatu which imo is the biggest problem because Xatu is so popular right now and if you don't have a way to get around it you're not going to have a good time. Offensive is the redeeming set imo cause you pressure Xatu more handily with Hydro Pump and have options to bop stuff like Whimsicott with Sludge Wave. My only problem with this set however is it's middling speed tier and you get worn down pretty quickly (since you run LO)

Rhydon A --> A+: Agree

I think this is fair. Rhydon has been proven to be a consistent Rocker for a while now and I think this change should be made to reflect that. I think it is on par with Diancie and Steelix as a Rocker so it should definitely be at the same rank as them. It checks quite a lot and doesn't let in stuff like Sceptile for free. Can't switch into Heliolisk cause Surf but what can /shrug.

Exeggutor-Alola B+ --> A-: Agree

Punchshroom said everything that I could possibly say about this mon in his post, so go check that out.

In response to other noms:
vanilluxe shouldn't rise. it has literally 0 defensive utility with paper defenses and abysmal defensive typing. sure, it has incredible wallbreaking, but so does Heliolisk (who at least has Dry Skin and can switch in for free vs bulky waters and has a ghost immunity). 0 splashability and doesn't synergize with anything defensively so for those reasons I think it's fine where it is.

i'm kinda skeptical of viv rising as it is probably the least splashable mon in nu right now. requires a crap ton of support with hazard control & you need to weaken the many checks to it (Diancie, Steelix, Bat, Rhydon, etc.) and can be revenged by stuff like sneasel and scarf phox (and magmortar which is really popular). I think A is overselling tbh.

 

[Yoshi]

-> A/A+
To be honest I thought this was A rank already but this thing is obviously due for a rise. It's one of the most consistent Pokemon in the meta right now, and while many people say it is extremely match up reliant, I have to disagree. It's a lot easier to deal with Steel-types than you would think, especially when Comfey can pack Hidden Power Fire. Things like Incineroar and Garbodor get worn down super easily, and overall, Comfey is one of the best sweepers in the tier. The only thing that has caused it trouble recently is the increased usage of Delphox, and you really don't want to run Hidden Power Ground on Comfey. Golbat runs the risk of being hit by Hidden Power Ice, so overall it is really hard to weaken Comfey down especially if it kept in the back and the player chips down its checks. This in my opinion makes it A+ worthy (if not that than A).

-> A
I don't think Diancie is as consistent as it has been in the past. If you look at it in context with the rest of A+ rank, it is really the least / second least viable there. While Stealth Rock is always a valuable utility move, paired with Diancie's high bulk, other Stealth Rock users like Steelix and Rhydon fit on more teams and are just overall more consistent. Speaking of Steelix, it's increased usage is a detriment to non-Earth Power Diancie, meaning you lose out on Heal Bell if you're going to run it, which can make things tough. In terms of being an offensive Fairy-type, Comfey is certainly better, having recovery + priority moves which are pretty strong only after a couple of Calm Mind boosts. In summary, Diancie has just been getting outclassed in what it does, but it certainly still holds great viability in this meta, and can work on several different teams and archetypes if placed in the right way.

-> A-
I definitely don't think that Dhelmise is as consistent as it has been in the past, and the hype for it has kind of died down. Many people have found it easy to play around it recently, myself included, and general usage has just gone down for it. With Pokemon like Incineroar, Druddigon, Golbat, and Vileplume all becoming more and more popular, it can make it very hard for Dhelmise to spam certain moves to do huge chunks to the enemy team. Rapid Spin sets just don't have enough offensive pressure to be good at what it does, especially with its Grass / Ghost typing. Overall, Dhelmise just isn't what it used to be, or rather we got used to it.

-> A-
Here's a Pokemon I really like right now. Druddigon has become an actually really good Pokemon in my opinion, and is one of the best Stealth Rock setters in the game currently thanks to two words: Mold Breaker. There is no denying that Xatu usage has shot up in usage like crazy in the past few months, so it is no wonder that Druddigon is on the rise again too. It's an all around great Xatu answer, having access to Stealth Rock which can go right through Magic Bounce, as well as being able to paralyze it or badly poison it with Glare and Toxic respectively. Several cool cores have been founded with it recently as well, such as the Druddigon + Ferroseed core that ABR was able to figure out, which I have been personally really enjoying. Druddigon isn't the most seemingly conventional pick, but if you give it a try, you should certainly expect great results.

-> S
Speaking of Xatu, I think this thing is definitely one of the most consistent, useful, and overall best Pokemon in the tier right now. I've heard some people say it should even drop down to A, but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that concept. Xatu is on the verge of being broken, pretty much being more splashable than Passimian, and is the most consistent way of beating Steelix, as well as bouncing back Toxics at opposing Slowbro. I don't think it is necessarily the best form of hazard prevention, but that is hardly enough to undermine the incredible utility Xatu has otherwise. It pretty much keeps a lot of Pokemon in check, making it a necessity for most teams. In fact, you literally always have to have this thing on stall 100% of the time, so that should be enough to say that this Pokemon is extremely dominant. Overall, Xatu is one of the most splashable, consistent, and most useful Pokemon in the tier, and that should be reflected by a rise to the S rank.

 

[Jisoo]

Yoshizilla315 I can't really support your Diancie nom with the arguments you used.

I don't think Diancie is as consistent as it has been in the past.

What made it change? It still checks Incineroar, still gets up SR vs. Xatu, is one of the better Braviary checks if you run Power Gem (which you should for so many reasons), and checks a LOT of stuff B+ and below. There aren't any meta trends that makes Diancie worse that I can think of besides Vivillon starting to run Energy Ball more frequently which isn't that big of a deal.

If you look at it in context with the rest of A rank, it is really the least / second least viable there.

This is pretty vague, and I don't really see how Diancie is the the least viable A rank Pokemon. A lot of these aren't even comparable really (like, Guzzlord to Diancie isn't a good comparison because they don't compete in any way). In terms of things that the SR set is comparable to in A+/A, which is only Rhydon and Steelix, Diancie offers just about the same defensive utility. All three of these are weak against certain things: Diancie struggles a bit vs Klinklang and other Rockers, while Steelix can't check Fire-types at all, Rhydon has no recovery which makes it weaker against residual damage and chip. These all suck against Grass-types and Water-types so you can't really deduct points from any of them this way. I touch on offensive later in this post where it's more directly addressing your argument.

[...] other Stealth Rock users like Steelix and Rhydon fit on more teams and are just overall more consistent.

Can you please explain this? Steelix is actually less consistent than Diancie at getting up Stealth Rock due to Xatu's prevalence. Rhydon and Diancie get up Rocks against just about the same exact Pokemon and are roughly equal in consistency.

Speaking of Steelix, it's increased usage is a detriment to non-Earth Power Diancie, meaning you lose out on Heal Bell if you're going to run it, which can make things tough.

Steelix had 22.7% usage in Sept., and 19.4% usage in October, so that part is incorrect. Even if Steelix was more common, Diancie having to run EP over Heal Bell would not make it so much worse that is has to drop a subrank for it. Diancie's utility drops a bit without it but it still has SR which has incredible utility like you mentioned.
*edit: to expand on the last point, dropping Heal Bell on Diancie would mostly affect stall builds where checking Steelix isn't the top priority. A lot of these teams run Xatu anyway.

In terms of being an offensive Fairy-type, Comfey is certainly better, having recovery + priority moves which are pretty strong only after a couple of Calm Mind boosts.

Okay, so you are comparing an offensive wallbreaker to a set-up sweeper. Diancie is much stronger than Comfey under normal conditions in terms of raw power (this bit is obvious), and is able to remove its own checks with coverage moves (keep in mind, Comfey cannot break Golbat by itself without Trick). True, Comfey has recovery and priority, but this doesn't make up for the steep power difference between a Specs Diancie and a 0/+1 Comfey. Unboosted Comfey is hilariously weak.
+1 252+ SpA Triage Comfey Giga Drain vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 158-188 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Diancie Moonblast vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 171-202 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Overall I don't think your post evaluates Diancie completely fairly because you cite Rhydon and Steelix as Pokemon that are better than it when they really are about equal. Diancie should stay in A+.