Lower Tiers USUM NU Viability Rankings - v2

yeezyknows

Banned deucer.
I'd like to give my input on one of the potential drops. Despite obviously having several glaring flaws, I don't believe that hariyama is deserving of D rank. I think it should continue to be firmly c+/c. I believe that fully physically defensive is yama's best set, allowing it to check and counter a bevy of NU's strongest physical attackers.

Physdef yama serves to counter both SD incin and mglalie, a great niche to have in the current meta. Yama also acts as a solid check to several other mons, most notably sneasel, magmortar, and pangoro. I don't think that yama is anywhere close to the same rank as hitmontop and the other practically unviable dregs found in D rank. I'm in no way saying that yama is a great mon, as its propensity to being knocked and relatively passive nature prevent it from being wholly menacing. However, its valuable niche as a viable physical/mixed wall should keep it firmly c/c+.
 

Katy

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Discussion Slate:

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Heliolisk to S > since Vileplume left Heliolisk has one enemy less to care about and can more freely click Thunderbolt without getting walled by this bulky grass type, additionally its speed tier is great outpacing a lot in the tier, its coverage options with Surf are also good to hit ground types and Hyper Voice is a strong excellent STAB which not many mons resist Volt Switch offers a lot of momentum. but yeah all in all Heliolisk is def a threat to cinsider when building and with the depature of Vileplume it has a better time and is more free to click Thunderbolt without getting walled by it.

Mega_Glalie.png
Mega-Glalie to A- (maybe B+) > it sure looks better on paper than it does look actually in the game, sure it offers a lot but with so many scarfers like Passimian, Togedemaru and the rise of Magmortar in usage its time got a lot tougher in the current metagame. It also has a hard time breaking teams as a lot of mons are bulky enough to hold themselves against Mega Glalie.

Hariyama.png
Hariyama keep where it is for now > I think Hariyama still handels itself as a good enough niche (mon) to stay where it is right now. I don't think it should drop down to the D rank as it can deal well with Magmortar, which rises not only in the VR but also in the Usage recently:

Some Calcs:
  1. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 103-123 (24 - 28.6%) -- 97.6% chance to 4HKO
  2. 252+ SpA Magmortar All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 159-188 (37 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  3. 252+ SpA Magmortar Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 117-138 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO


Hitmonlee (1).png
Hitmonlee to D > quite a while back when I saw Hitmonlee doing something for a team which passimian can't do better as a fighting type, Passimian offers much more than Hitmonlee. I agree to drop Hitmonlee to D rank.
 

Rabia

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slate stuff, if I don't comment on one then it's because I don't really care or hold a particularly strong opinion

182674
-> S Agree
This nomination is a difficult one for me to have a definitive opinion on; I think Heliolisk is significantly better than the rest of the Pokemon in A+, but I'm just not sure if it's on the level of Incineroar and Passimian. The popularity of Toxic Spikes helps out Heliolisk a ton in crippling checks to it such as Dhelmise, Decidueye, and even Torterra, but that also means you see more Dhelmise as well as Rotom. I think what pushes Heliolisk into S along with Toxic Spikes is the prominence of Pokemon Heliolisk feasts on: Weezing, Blastoise, and Slowking are just a few of the Pokemon Heliolisk can aggressively double into to gain opportunities to wallbreak. There's also the obvious case of Vileplume leaving, meaning there's one less Pokemon that can take a hit from Heliolisk and scout what it locks itself into.

182677
-> B+ Agree
Mega Glalie has been bad for awhile lol. It's just hurt so much by the prominence of checks to it such as Incineroar, Steelix, Slowking, and Blastoise, with the latter being especially problematic given it can also remove Spikes. It's also just so clearly not on the level of the other A rank Pokemon in my opinion; it's not as good of a wallbreaker as Pangoro, it lacks the defensive utility of Aerodactyl, and it's giga weak to entry hazards, which, in conjunction with Double-Edge recoil, leaves it vulnerable to getting chipped down super easily.

182678
-> A- Agree
This is another case of a Pokemon just not being on the level of its peers. While I can appreciate certain trends going Exeggutor's way, it really suffers from the prominence of bulky Poison-types limiting its opportunities to switch in. I wouldn't really move it any further than the top of A- because I think it's still super deadly and relatively easy to build around; it's just not as good as the other Pokemon in A.

182681
182682
-> D Agree
they're both terrible Pokemon that do nothing relevant in the metagame; I actually disagree with yeezy here and think that Hitmontop is unironically better than both of them. at least it has a fairly secure niche on stall builds.

182683
-> B- Agree
It just doesn't really do anything notable in the tier. If you want a Stealth Rock setter with enough of an offensive presence to threaten the spinners + Xatu, then Rhydon or Dragonium Z Druddigon are generally better options. Defensively, it just doesn't really do much of anything. Checking Aerodactyl is nice, but the other setters do that even better.

my own noms

182684
-> B
I think it's really hard to justify this guy currently; Weezing/Garbodor/Golbat are quite ubiquitous, Togedemaru existing means its Speed tier is less untouchable, Rotom is quite nice right now.. there's a lot going against it. Final Gambit is probably cool to support teammates like Comfey, but eh? I don't really think Accelgor is worthwhile outside of that. It just provides so little to a team outside of speed control and that potential lure. Spikes are cool, but removing them isn't a particularly tall task right now.

182685
-> UR
dual screens are the broken cheese archetype; webs is just too inconsistent and not really used at all to warrant mentioning it on the VR imo.

all for now, will probably have more later
 
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Sceptile A --> A+


Sceptile's in a good place right now and has been performing well so I'd like to nom it. No vileplume means that Golbat is the only NU mon that x4 resists grass which makes the specs set very easy to use and thankfully golbat is 2HKO'd by HP after rocks anyway. It's the third fastest mon after Aero and Accelgor and balance dislikes playing against when they rely on grass resists like Decid / Incin / Guzz / Toge / Weezing who all get bopped by coverage or take a nice chunk from Leaf Storm. Garbodor may have risen to A+ and the sp def is kind of popular but thankfully Sceptile has the tools to get past with earthquake which hits a good chunk of other things too if you don't like specs.

Sceptile @ Choice Specs
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Ice/Psychic
- Focus Blast

Or

Sceptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
- Focus Blast
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

4 Atk Life Orb Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garbodor: 192-229 (52.7 - 62.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 216-255 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Life Orb Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 216-255 (61.1 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 229-270 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Life Orb Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heliolisk: 276-325 (104.1 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 203-239 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Life Orb Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togedemaru: 478-567 (143.1 - 169.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Sceptile Earthquake vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Steel: 172-203 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

It has a decent amount of utility for switching in compared to other fast frails mons / it's able to recover off damage with giga drain and overgrow storm is the icing on the cake. good mon imo.
 
Hlelo

Heliolisk, while still being massively threatening, doesnt feel like the threat it was right after sand meta. checks fit very naturally onto teams, ground types basially put themself onto teams, druddigon is an amazing rocker that can check it decently well with protect and a togedemaru or a dhelmise/decidueye in the back. I would leave it in a+ personally

glalie should be a-. the meta checks it very well naturally w massive slowking and blastoise usage, steelix/incin checking it what have you. its still a threat if completely ignored in the teambuilder but usually quite handicapped by team preview. also use protect not spikes as the 4th move. stoise is spinning anyway :(

i think what the biggest hinderance to eggy rn is that blastoises are basically obligated to run ice beam imo. if you dont u are losing to eggy essentially lol bulky waters dont give it the free turns it needs. vapo can protect and see what it does. A- seems adequate since its still a massive threat just not as easy to click buttons with as before

as i mentioned above, i believe druddigon is one of the best rockers at the moment. i usually opt for the protect toxic spdef set while we have also seen z outrage sets in vileplume meta. spdef drud can sit around on a team and just click toxic without caring about much. xatu kinda sucks but rocking on it is still a big feat which you need on a team. downside to is is that your team is naturally lacking a flying and normal resist and forces you to run some dogshit like scarf togedemaru. i think it should stay where it is but i think its a great rocker

nuke yama and lee pleaseeeee

pilo was always a pretty bad rocker. it rocks vs xatu which is nice but its natural bulk isnt great, its easy spin food for stoise and theres no ice cream you are trying to check now. back in the drud argument, this again forces you to run a different flying and normal resist or u wanna lose to shit like ambipom or cinccino... putting this on a team i think puts you on the back foot in the builder immediately and thats why i think it should drop personally
 
Rotom B+>A-: Rotom has deserved this for quite a while due to its ability take on almost every setter with ease with wisp+hex, but the rising popularity of spikes and Garb/Weez has made Rotom all the better. Rotom resists the moves of the two poison type spikers, deals significant damage with hex, and can come in to clear these hazards after they've been set penalty free because of levitate. Rotom also forces your opponent to have play incessant mind games due to it's 3 immunities, namely Heliolisk, and Passimian. The combination of Rotom and Incineroar can be especially daunting to Passimian.

Please rise the electric cheetoh
 
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Rabia

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ok hi gonna make a post regarding mostly shitmons; this is all part of my plan to get c consolidated into one single rank

rises out of shitmon land:
184417
-> B-
I think Mega Abomasnow is somewhat competent in the current metagame personally. This is primarily due to the Substitute + 3 Attacks set, which takes advantage of Mega Abomasnow's ability to easily force switches to set Substitute. Substitute is especially nice given how it eases prediction against targets like Incineroar and prevents Pokemon such as Aerodactyl, Choice Scarf Passimian, and Delphox from revenge killing Mega Abomasnow as easily. Don't get me wrong here--this thing is still mostly hot trash, and Substitute can be a bit detrimental at times given it contributes to Mega Abomasnow getting chipped down even further. However, I do think the "discovery" of this set is enough to move Mega Abomasnow up.

wow this rank is filled with garbage here are all the things I want unranked and why:
184419
184420
184421
184422
184424
184454

Torterra is just not worth using from my experience. Offensive sets aren't great in the current metagame with how prominent Weezing is, and defensive sets just don't check much outside of Rotom and Heliolisk kind of. The main problem with bulkier sets though is how common Spikes and Toxic Spikes are; they just struggle to handle what they're meant to defensively. I could see an argument for keeping this guy at the bottom of a theoretical single C rank because in matches where the opponent lacks Weezing Torterra can put in work with offensive sets; however, I'm not entirely too sure how valuable this niche really is.

Hariyama and Hitmonlee I covered earlier; they both don't wallbreak well in a metagame filled with bulky Poison-types and viable Psychic- and Flying-types, and Hariyama's defensive traits aren't really that impressive at the end of the day.

Masquerain I also already addressed; dual screens is a better archetype than Sticky Web, and that archetype as a whole just isn't used anywhere. This niche is irrelevant.

Typhlosion is on paper cool paired with Pursuit from Sneasel or Aerodactyl and considering how Blastoise builds don't get to rely on something like a Vaporeon or a Slowking. The problem is you then realize that this thing's whole shtick is Eruption spam, which makes it really easy to exploit with say, Aerodactyl and entry hazards. There's also just a lot of other shit like Calm Mind Delphox and Choice Scarf Passimian that exploit this. If I want a fast special attacking wallbreaker, then I'd rather go with Heliolisk or even Choice Specs Delphox.

Gastrodon is painfully awkward to fit on teams and doesn't really contribute anything unique to a team other than being a Rotom stop. It really just faces too much competition I feel for it to ever be worth using.

I have no idea about this one help:
184427

Sawk is weird because it can actually deal with most of the metagame trends that harm Hitmonlee and Hariyama thanks to its coverage moves and ability Mold Breaker. I just really don't know if there's a reason to use this over Pangoro and Medicham other than its speed, which isn't even a huge boon given those two have priority. Z-Move lure sets can still be cool I guess? I really don't have a set opinion here. From my experiences using Sawk, I would almost always prefer to have just built with Passimian as my Fighting-type instead lol..

ok gonna give some thoughts on not shitmons

rises:
184429
-> A+

We just voted on it, but I'm gonna try my luck one more time. Garbodor is easily one of the most metagame-defining Pokemon currently given its ability to not only set (Toxic) Spikes but also absorb them too. It's phenomenal at pressuring common forms of entry hazard removal with its offensive sets and is a pain to remove hazards against because of Explosion. I mean yeah, not really anything has changed; I view this as simply an underrated Pokemon VR-wise.

184430
-> A-
Gonna agree with this but for some other reasons. Levitate + Defog is obviously great, but I think offensive variants are really what push Rotom into A- currently. Z-Thunder is a really nice Incineroar lure, while Choice Specs is a much better set too with the banning of Vileplume. The prominence of Spikes really benefits Rotom too because most of what switches into it gets chipped really badly by Spikes and proper prediction from the Rotom player (ie Volt Switch versus Shadow Ball).

drops:
184431
-> A
This Pokemon has been overrated for at least half of a year. Incineroar is the best Pokemon in the tier and completely shuts Sneasel down. Sure, Incineroar isn't particularly hard to chip away at, but Sneasel just can't make great headway against it. There's also been the rise of more fast Pokemon that threaten to revenge kill Sneasel in Aerodactyl and Choice Scarf Togedemaru; Blastoise is more common, and although it isn't a great check, it still comes in for free once or twice and can spin or threaten a Scald burn. Hell, even Pangoro being around is kind of annoying because of priority Bullet Punch. There just really isn't a lot going in Sneasel's favor to fight back against these clear trends against it.

184432
-> A
Also been overrated for like half a year.. Xatu theoretically is great in a metagame where entry hazards play such a frontal role, but then you realize Xatu gets mauled by offensive Garbodor variants and still hates switching into bulkier variants of that as well as Weezing given Gunk Shot and Sludge Bomb just suck to switch into because of the poison chance. We're also seeing Rhydon take a much more prominent role as the top Stealth Rock setter (and Druddigon is much more common). Steelix dropping Curse lately for Toxic/Protect is helpful, but I think that's more proof of how Xatu's spot has fallen.

ok i think that is all for now
 
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182674
>> A+
Don't get me wrong: Heliolisk has definitely gotten better since Vileplume got squashed by the NU suspect for it. However, while Heliolisk may be fast and powerful as hell right now, I don't think the meta has shifted enough towards its favor to warrant a spot in S rank for it, as a whole lot of trends have actually gone against it, and unlike the other S-rankers, Heliolisk's sets have huge flaws which prevent it from being able to fight back versus those trends. While Toxic Spikes might be incredibly popular right now, TSpike's popularity basically means you'll see Rotom-A and Dhelmise more often than you'd expect, and Heliolisk can't pressure them unless it runs some weird coverage move such as Dark Pulse, which is uncommon given that Dark Pulse is just useless outside of this. Ground-Types such as Rhydon and Steelix have been slotting themselves on teams more often than you'd expect, and so have Heliolisk's checks, which are incredibly high in number (I'm not listing examples because I'm not interested in doing a whole lot of typing). Druddigon's recent surge in usage means trouble for Heliolisk - the rusty dragon is a fantastic SR setter which can just use Protect to check it, not to mention that most of its teammates are also decently popular checks to the desert-dwelling reptile too, further tightening issues for Heliolisk. Simply put, while Heliolisk may have benefited from Vileplume's departure from NU, numerous checks have been popping up here and there, while Heliolisk can't even check some of them unless it decides to run some weird coverage move, which is rare given that those coverage moves often come with their own price that Heliolisk is pretty much forced to pay.

182677
>> A-
While I do still think Mega Glalie is a scary wallbreaker in NU, I feel that a lot of recent trends and the NU metagame in general have definitely put Mega Glalie through a lot of carnage. In fact, so much, that I find it warrants dropping from A-rank. Its issues of poor bulk, typing, and longevity and only decent base speed have only been exacerbated by a lot of recent trends, namely, the increase in pokemon which simply don't bother to give a shit about Mega Glalie, namely, Weezing and Rhydon, as the former has great physical defense and access to Will-O-Wisp to fuck Mega Glalie up, while all Mega Glalie can do is slowly kill itself with Double-Edge recoil + Rocky Helmet from the former, while the latter should probably explain itself lol. At the same time, faster pokemon which can force Glalie out or threaten to KO it if it stays in, such as Aerodactyl, have been surging in usage, while it's natural checks, such as Incineroar, Steelix, Slowking, and Blastoise, have been incredibly prominent, in fact, more than they have ever been, causing problems for Mega Glalie (the former can offensively check it thanks to Intimidate lowering Mega Glalie's attack, meaning that Mega Glalie can't hit it that hard even with Earthquake or Explosion, Steelix doesn't care about anything Mega Glalie tries to throw at it, even Explosion, Slowking again offensively checks it but has a harder time doing so due to a lack of Intimidate and lower physical defense, while Blastoise doesn't give a fuck about Mega Glalie and can just spin its Spikes away.).

182678
>> A-
Again, like the other guys I've already mentioned, Alolan Exeggutor does still have its strengths, in this case, having a powerful STAB combo which allows it to hit a wide majority of the tier for either neutral or super effective damage, and breaking defensive teams like nobody's business, not to mention great bulk on both sides. However, a lot of the bulky water-types it murders have been adapting to it with counterplay to the living egg tree. Blastoise pretty much almost always runs Ice Beam, Vaporeon will always use Protect in the face of Alolan Exeggutor, while other trends such as the rise in bulky poison-types give it new issues in the metagame. It's obviously good at breaking teams in half and is decently easy to build around, so it shouldn't go any lower than A-, but genuinely speaking, it's really not as meta-breaking as it once was.

I'll probably edit this cheese later, but for now, I'll just let this fester and then make edits to this.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
On mobile so I can't be fancy and shit, forgive me plz :blobpensive:

I actually believe Heliolisk should rise to S in actuality. I feel people are really underestimating it's presence in the metagame, especially with one of its biggest checkes in Plume got banned. Dedicated Lisk switchins that are actually relevant are few in between besides more fringe checks such as Dhelmise, Togedemaru, Decidueye, and Palossand. However, all the aforementioned answers either get worn down heavily or just straight up get 2hkoed by coverage moves. The rise in Tspikes also benefit Lisk a lot as well, putting less reliable switchins such as Spd Druddigon and Guzzlord at risk of being 2HKOed by its attacks. I really feel Lisk polarizes the metagame and takes advantage of a lot of trends (besides the prominence is Scarf Passi ofc) to warrant a rise to S, even when using it at times may require a good read in terms of clicking Surf on an incoming Steelix or Rhydon.

Also agree with Garbador going to A+. Tspikes are legit annoying as hell right now unless you are using your own Garb or a deffoger that are not deterred by them such as Golbat and Rotom. While offensive sets are nothing short of amazing, Garb has also a lot of defensive value checking the abundance of Grass, Fighting, and Comfeys going around thanks to its Spd spike set. Lack of recovery can be mitigated by partners such as Delphic and Vaporeon via Wish and they work great in tandem with eachother. I just feel Garb has too much influence right now to not be A+ at this point.

Xatu should drop to A. Almost every hazard setter besides Ferroseed and defensive Steelix (even not as big of an issue thanks to Curse) takes advantage of by either 2HKoing or straight up ignoring it's ability in general, thus removing almost all utility for the Psychic bird. While it still does provide a great Fighting check and Ground immune, Xatu often struggles to accomplish much versus the ever so common Drudiggon and Rhydon teams that pressure it too much to accomplish much. The rise of Scarf Toge over Passimian also is not doing it any favors as well.

Rotom to A-. Specs Rotom has like no good switchins lol. With great utility, typing, and decent offensive stats, I feel Rotom provides a lot of utility for a lot of teams whether it is removing hazards or wallbreaking. A lot of people côté it's league bulk as a reason not to use it over more solid Heliolisk and Passimian checks, however I feel Rotom provides more value when providing offensive utility for its team, abusing it's great STAB combo, to force many switchins and generate huge momentum

Das it for now, no more opinions from me.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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rises out of shitmon land:
-> B-
I think Mega Abomasnow is somewhat competent in the current metagame personally. This is primarily due to the Substitute + 3 Attacks set, which takes advantage of Mega Abomasnow's ability to easily force switches to set Substitute. Substitute is especially nice given how it eases prediction against targets like Incineroar and prevents Pokemon such as Aerodactyl, Choice Scarf Passimian, and Delphox from revenge killing Mega Abomasnow as easily. Don't get me wrong here--this thing is still mostly hot trash, and Substitute can be a bit detrimental at times given it contributes to Mega Abomasnow getting chipped down even further. However, I do think the "discovery" of this set is enough to move Mega Abomasnow up.
I hardly think Substitute alone is enough of a reason to move this up; it still has its numerous fundamental issues of bad weaknesses (like having to avoid Slowking's Fire Blast & being annoyed by U-turn) and speed (can't even outspeed Vaporeon without +Spe, which doesn't even let MAboma outrun max Speed Adamant Rhydon). Coupled with the fact that it has limited attacking opportunities due to hazard weakness, lack of passive recovery, and the aforementioned bad speed, and MAboma doesn't quite have the luxury to afford spending health on Sub as much as it would like.

In fact, I think the meta trends have hurt MAboma more than they have helped, enough for me to be convinced it warrants a drop rather than a rise. The Poison-types that aim to replace Vileplume, such as Golbat, Garbodor, and Weezing, are much less, if at all, exploitable for MAboma, and offensive Rhydons as well as Druddigons running max Speed have just resulted in less targets for MAboma to freely threaten.

Now if we're talking about an Ice-type breaker that deserves to rise, may I suggest:

Aurorus fully exploits the popular bulky Poisons we have right now (with the exception of offensive Drain Punch Garbo, but it usually favors other coverage which do not immediately threaten Aurorus), and it has the speed to stay ahead of the trend of "speed invested bulky holepunchers" while speed typing with Pangoro at least. Aurorus also has more versatility in its filler slot; Aurorus can opt for Protect to scout for Choice-locked attacks as it fears only one attack from them, unlike MAboma who's also weak to U-turn which makes Protect less valuable on it and why it would consider Sub instead (not that Aurorus cannot also use Sub to also punish switches, btw). Aurorus doesn't make a bad offensive Stealth Rocker either since it threatens pretty much all the main hazard control options we have in the tier. Specs Aurorus doesn't use these moves (unless u wanna go wild with Specs SR) but that just means it can dedicate its last slot screwing over some of the very few remaining things that can withstand its coverage, like Flash Cannon for Pilo or Psychic for Hariyama.

All in all, I think Aurorus is the better Ice-type pick in this meta, especially when compared to MAbomasnow.
Top of C+ / Bottom of B-
Top/Mid C
 
Update, voting on everything since the last slate.



Code:
Rises:
Druddigon: A- > A
Rotom: B+ > A-
Abomasnow-Mega: C+ > B-
Garbodor: A > A+
Aurorus: UR > C+
Mesprit: UR > C

Drops:
Glalie-Mega: A > A-
Hariyama: C+ > C
Hitmonlee: C > D
Exeggutor-A: A > A-
Piloswine: B > B-
Accelgor: B+ > B
Masquerain: C+ > UR
Torterra: C+ > C
Typhlosion: C > D
Gastrodon: C > UR
Sawk: C > UR
Sneasel: A+ > A
Xatu: A+ > A
We made an exception this week, but from this point onwards no more unranked Pokemon nominations will be accepted unless they are NU by usage. Here is this month's discussion slate:

Code:
Discussion Slate:
Aerodactyl: A > A+
Blastoise: A > A+
Xatu: A > A-
Whimsicott: B- > B / B+
Samurott: B- > B / B+
Audino-Mega: B- > C+
 
Aerodactyl: A > A+ ~ Disagree
Aerodactyl has proven to be a potent offensive threat, but its splash-ability makes me unsure if it deserves A+. I always find roosting with Aerodactyl to be risky because that Incineroar you just switched into can easily Earthquake predicting the Roost. Flare Blitz or Knock Off + Earthquake always ko's from Defensive Pivot Incineroar. Running protect on it is cool to scout scarfers that try to revenge it, but you have to drop roost or a coverage move.

Blastoise: A > A+ ~ Agree
Blastoise is the most splashable form of hazard control in the tier. It can switch into every rocker in the tier and reliably get rid of hazards. Refresh is still a great option, but Ice Beam is getting used more to detract Dhelmise from spin blocking. It's useful in nearly every matchup.

Xatu: A > A- ~ Agree
Xatu is one of my personal favorites, but Druddigon is so good right now that it's making Xatu worse. Xatu can run Defog + Toxic + Roost to out stall Druddigon and prevent rocks from it, but Xatu would rather run Protect so it doesn't get Pursuit trapped. Xatu is good for deflecting Toxic Spikes which is important on teams without Garbodor or Defog Rotom. Xatu is one of those mons that can make a matchup either really good if the opponent uses Steelix as their rocker or really difficult if the opponent uses anything else. A cool set I've been running is SpDef with Feather Dance which can wall alot of the metagame. A- seems appropriate for it.

Whimsicott: B- > B / B+ ~ Agree on B+
Specs Whimsicott is good at whittling the opponent's fairy resists down with correct prediction. It's getting better now that Druddigon is better, alot more chances for it to switch in. It's not a great defogger by any means but it's a good 4th move to have instead of Switcheroo. I find Switcheroo to not be too useful with Z moves and poison types sometimes carrying Black Sludge.

Samurott: B- > B / B+ ~ Agree on B
I like Samurott because it can switch into Incineroar's Knock Off with Buginium Z and be threatening. Heliolisk not being S gives Samurott more virtue, but i'm not sure if Heliolisk should've dropped in the first place. Samurott's drawback is its speed is slow for wallbreaking standards, there's too many water immune mons for it to sweep, and it doesn't find too many opportunities to switch in.

Audino-Mega: B- > C+ ~ Agree
Audino-Mega is only useful on stall, and stall is a pretty mediocre archetype (even though I got smashed by it in nu open, f that Articuno team).
 
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Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
-> A-
It's that time of the year where Vivillon is seemingly a broken ladder Pokemon once again. This Pokemon oftentimes goes up and down in the ranks (anywhere between B-A-) but I think this time it has been pretty consistent over the past few months. The fact that Diancie left a couple of months ago really helped out Vivillon because it was hardly walled by that Pokemon. Also, Slowbro leaving the tier made the tier more offensive, and I think that was great news for Vivillon as well. It makes Viv a better breaker and it gives it more opportunities to fit on viable teams in the meta. Outside of those two big reasons, I think the fact that Pangoro being in the tier gives Viv another thing to check, albeit that's a rather small thing to note. Some people might argue that the increased usage in Aerodactyl, Togedemaru, and Specially Defensive Druddigon are hindering Vivillon's viability. The former two Pokemon are rather easy to chip down, and both of them take heavy damage from Hurricane anyway. Vivillon can also run Hidden Power Ground for Togedemaru, which is completely reasonable, especially if the team is more comfortable with chipping down Rhydon in particular, which isn't a crazy thought in a meta where Dhelmise, Pangoro, and Blastoise are all extremely common. In terms of Specially Defensive Druddigon, it's just one extra Pokemon that Viv's team needs to eliminate or severely chip in order for Vivillon to set up and win in the late game. I don't see it being a meta trend that prevents Vivillon from rising to A-, but it's most definitely something that makes Vivillon harder to use, alongside other already known factors.
 

quziel

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Finally getting off my arse and making a post:


Absol: C+=>B-

Honestly, this mon is just stupidly strong, and the ability to spam Knock while threatening Pursuit and Sucker in the back means that it can simply dismantle a team. I don't have a huge amount to say w.r.t. meta trends besides the fact that it is excellently supported by Poison types, being able to easily bring in Pass, and utterly destroy the ghost types that threaten them, but its just a great mon (Knock/Sucker/Pursuit/Superpower > Knock/Sucker/Superpower/SD).

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7nu-447933 (note, a burned pursuit does 59.8-69.2 vs AV King)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-933713408


Clawitzer: D=> C/C+

Another nom that I feel is overdue. This mon simply breaks harder than almost anything else in the tier, with honestly no safe switchins; Vaporeon is the closest and its literally 1 flinch away from dead. To clarify, I am talking about the specs set, which I view to be the better set atm. Simply put, there is a slight deemphasis on the base 60 speed tier as of late, due to the increased prominence of Pangoro, which is outran by spooky crabman, and additionally, with spdef plume no longer in the tier, Clawitzer finds breaking far easier than it was in the past.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-933713408 (wrong set, but shows how terrifying Claw is)

Noms I agree with:

Viv => A-:

The Hp Ground set is very effective, and literally carried me to free reqs in the plume suspect, and this mon forms a nearly perfect core with SD Incineroar (aka one of the best NU mons), where you simply force the opponent into either CCing Incin and letting viv set up, or u-turning vs Incin, and letting Incin get another KO. This is in addition to Incin very efficiently chipping Rhydon into any Viv's KO range, and heavily damaging Aero for it. Additionally: +1 252 SpA Vivillon Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 223-263 (74 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 1 SR switchin and Aero is Viv food.

Aero: A => A+

This mon is more of a nom I agree with due to how I feel its warping teambuilding norms, but due to it heavily incentivizing Rhydon and Lix on the vast majority of teams, despite the meta otherwise favoring mons like Drudd, I think this mon fulfills the criteria for A+.

Blastoise: A => A+

Blastoise is probably the most spammed mon in NU for a reason; it compresses Removal, a very reliable ground check (aka lix and Don), and a reliable Incin check into one slot, and that combination of roles is incredibly desirable, despite the fact that I don't think its an amazing mon by its own merits.
 
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Rabia

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189456
-> A+
I think I'm good on moving Aerodactyl up to A+. Although it's prone to being revenge killed by our tier's most common Choice Scarf users, it's so hard to deal with offensively outside of them, and its checks aren't really difficult to wear down given their lack of recovery. Like, physically defensive Slowking can be slightly annoying, but you have a really good chance to 2HKO with Choice Band Stone Edge after Stealth Rock. I think the massive utility this Pokemon provides is just so appreciated by so many builds currently; between its great Speed, Pursuit trapping, and defensive utility, it provides so much to so many different builds. I particularly like it alongside Druddigon given those builds can struggle to fit a good check to Flying-types elsewhere, but it's also nice to pair alongside Choice Scarf Togedemaru given its general inability to revenge kill effectively.

189457
neutral, leaning towards no rise
Blastoise definitely defines the tier to an extent currently; it fits really well onto the standard Passimian + bulky Poison-type + bulky Water-type build and functions really nicely as a source of entry hazard control in broken Toxic Spikes meta thanks to Refresh. My main problem is... this Pokemon just sucks otherwise LOL. Like, it's just not a very good Pokemon, and I think its success mostly attributes to it fulfilling several useful roles. I think as a defensive Pokemon it's sort of ass because it doesn't really check much of what you'd want a bulky Water-type to check, mainly because it has to run heavy Speed investment to check Incineroar, and because all the special Fire-types blast it back. It faces a shit ton of competition from Slowking for a teamslot due to how many roles it can fit and how easy it is to fit hazard control alongside it. I could be swayed either way and may change my mind by the time we vote, but this is where I currently stand.

189458
-> A-, or just shift some stuff around in A
I've never been high on Xatu; the tier has always had really viable Stealth Rock setters not named Steelix that could bypass it, and that definitely takes away a huge part of its niche. I think there is something to say though about how Steelix is still dominating usage (that Pokemon is always a super safe pick) and is even dropping Curse due to the supposed drop in Xatu viability. I still feel like totem bird is overrated--I definitely view Druddigon as better than it--although maybe I would be more content with a drop to the bottom of A. I'm not 100% on which side of the scale Xatu falls.

189459
-> B+
I have always loved Whimsicott tbf, but I think it's pretty solid right now as a wallbreaker that can make use of defensive utility to help out offensive builds. No Vileplume just means one less thing to prevent it from using its STAB attacks, and honestly the current Poison-types are nowhere near as reliable of answers. Weezing switches in once safely, while Garbodor has to be running a bulky spread to reliably check Whimsicott (and still risks getting blown back by Psychic, which comfortably 2HKOes with Stealth Rock up). It's also more viable than shit Pokemon Sceptile.

189461
-> B
I definitely thought Samurott would go back to being a bit of a matchup pick when Vileplume was banned--I anticipated Heliolisk to pick up a lot more traction than it ended up gaining. I still question Samurott's consistency, but I think it's good enough to get into B; I like it over a few things in there as well as everything else in B- really.

189462
-> C+
You only really see stall in tournaments when people known for using stall are playing. It's not a very reliable archetype in the current meta. Mega Audino is definitely the most staple member of stall, although given how bad of a build it is currently, it should be reflected in the VR.

other noms:

viv: eh, idc. sure, it's better than accelgor and dominates ladder. prob enough for b+.
claw: this pokemon is trash stop using it. prob not trash enough to stay in d, but it is being vastly overrated.
absol: sure. threatening enough pokemon that faces a bit less competition from sneasel in the current meta.
 
Sneasel A>A-: Aside from the glaring obvious of being walled by incineroar, I feel like it's been overshadowed as a pursuit trapper and knocker to some extent. Aerodactyl is kind of better at pursuit trapping, as it forces out the same things sneasel does for the most part, but at the same time, doesn't die like sneasel will (90% of the time) from a failed pursuit, if it is healthy. Pangoro knocks harder and stays around longer to knock more off due to better bulk and decent recovery in drain punch. Sneasel of course, still hits everything like a truck that doesn't resist it and combines pursuit + knock into one, but it's role compression isn't as valuable anymore due to these roles being easily slapped on teams with other pokemon in a decompressed form with little downside, causing sneasel to be a wee overshadowed.
 
UR > B-/B

Lilligant @ Normalium Z
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Rock] / Sleep Powder

I've been messing around with Liligant since Plume's departure from the tier, and it has gotten much better after losing the main thing which walled it. QD Z-Hyper Beam is the only set I've used, though you could run a Scarf set with Healing Wish (but that's better done by Mesprit).

Lili is in a decent place right now, with Grass checks running low and bulky Waters more common, it can easily find many set up opportunities. Like Sceptile and Whimsicott, Liligant struggles with Golbat, bulky Poisons and Fire-types. However, unlike the former two, which function better as breakers for a team, Lili performs more of a mid to late game sweeper role. Being faster than both Passimian and Vivillon naturally is a blessing, and at +1 it outspeeds most things bar Scarf Togedemaru (still common but can be dealt with through team support). It also has the same SpAtk stat as Vileplume, and being able to boost it just makes it all the more scary. However, its has few coverage options, and you're pretty much forced to run Z-Hyper Beam to hit resists. HP Ground hits both Garb and Incin for decent damage (and straight OHKOes Togedemaru if you manage to get +2) while HP Rock is probably the better option for hitting the Flying-types. You can run Sleep Powder (or Aromatherapy if you fear Toxic/TSpikes) but Lili appreciates the coverage more. It is honestly quite good, and has helped me net a few late game sweeps.
 
UR > B-/B

Lilligant @ Normalium Z
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Rock] / Sleep Powder

I've been messing around with Liligant since Plume's departure from the tier, and it has gotten much better after losing the main thing which walled it. QD Z-Hyper Beam is the only set I've used, though you could run a Scarf set with Healing Wish (but that's better done by Mesprit).

Lili is in a decent place right now, with Grass checks running low and bulky Waters more common, it can easily find many set up opportunities. Like Sceptile and Whimsicott, Liligant struggles with Golbat, bulky Poisons and Fire-types. However, unlike the former two, which function better as breakers for a team, Lili performs more of a mid to late game sweeper role. Being faster than both Passimian and Vivillon naturally is a blessing, and at +1 it outspeeds most things bar Scarf Togedemaru (still common but can be dealt with through team support). It also has the same SpAtk stat as Vileplume, and being able to boost it just makes it all the more scary. However, its has few coverage options, and you're pretty much forced to run Z-Hyper Beam to hit resists. HP Ground hits both Garb and Incin for decent damage (and straight OHKOes Togedemaru if you manage to get +2) while HP Rock is probably the better option for hitting the Flying-types. You can run Sleep Powder (or Aromatherapy if you fear Toxic/TSpikes) but Lili appreciates the coverage more. It is honestly quite good, and has helped me net a few late game sweeps.

There is so much wrong with this nomination. Firstly, grass checks are not running low at all, even if plume is gone now. To name a few, druggidon, weezing, garbodor, golbat, alolan egg, delphox, incineroar, dhelmise, decidueye, and probably more that I'm missing. I would compare it's need for team support to that of klinklang, whom is currently Unranked, but even that might be a very generous comparison as not even klinklang has as much it needs cleared for it to sweep. It's pretty hard to justify it's usage when Vivillion does the same thing but a lot better. Yes it can set up on bulky waters while Vivillion can't as well, but sleep powder alleviates it's issues setting up, yes it can hit resists with hyper beam, but Dhelmise is rather high in usage and Vivillion doesn't even need to run a 1 time limited move to hit near everything, yes it has 1 speed over Vivillion but that won't matter 95% of the time, yes it has a higher special attack than Vivillion but it doesn't matter since Vivillion's stab still does more damage. Lastly, lol, hp rock is does less to fire types than Viv's hurricane.

Please put more thought into posts before you post them :)
 
There is so much wrong with this nomination. Firstly, grass checks are not running low at all, even if plume is gone now. To name a few, druggidon, weezing, garbodor, golbat, alolan egg, delphox, incineroar, dhelmise, decidueye, and probably more that I'm missing. I would compare it's need for team support to that of klinklang, whom is currently Unranked, but even that might be a very generous comparison as not even klinklang has as much it needs cleared for it to sweep. It's pretty hard to justify it's usage when Vivillion does the same thing but a lot better. Yes it can set up on bulky waters while Vivillion can't as well, but sleep powder alleviates it's issues setting up, yes it can hit resists with hyper beam, but Dhelmise is rather high in usage and Vivillion doesn't even need to run a 1 time limited move to hit near everything, yes it has 1 speed over Vivillion but that won't matter 95% of the time, yes it has a higher special attack than Vivillion but it doesn't matter since Vivillion's stab still does more damage. Lastly, lol, hp rock is does less to fire types than Viv's hurricane.

Please put more thought into posts before you post them :)
Damn, you right. Honestly, most of my opinion was drawn from ladder experience, and ladder is not a very good testing ground. I'll concede that not much thought was put into it. Also, I forgot Dhelmise was in the tier.

B-/B is admittedly too high, and at this point I'll be surprised to see it even get ranked. Yeah, it needs a lot of support to put in any sort of work, and Grass/Normal coverage with Hidden Power is kind of weak compared to Vivillon's Hurricane. Not going too much into it because what has been said is not wrong.
 

Zneon

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192077

B > B+/A-
Accelgor @ Sitrus Berry/ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Focus Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Final Gambit

I've been doing some jank with the ninja Shelmet as a Spiker, and mostly, I really like Accelgor as one, he is indeed in a decent spot in NU, now this isn't the only set I've used, I also used the Choice Specs one, which is better than this by a while, but this set did help me with a few games.

Firstly, I always go Spikes, since I mainly use Accelgor as a Spiker of course, which helps me gets late game sweeps with hyper offensive Pokemon such as Passimian, Aerodactyl and Heliolisk. Now, Focus Blast is mainly for coverage, and it's against Pokemon that don't like fighting type moves but can take a hit from Bug Buzz without being 3HKOd (if they just hard switch into it), 2HKOd or OHKOd. I mainly use it against Pokemon like Pangoro, Aerodactyl, Mega Audino, Ferroseed, Passimian, but mainly for SR Steelix and Scarfed Togedemaru. Bug Buzz is obviously my main STAB, to hit mons like Slowking, Inciniroar and Xatu for enough damage before being in range of being revenge killed by mons like Passimian, Sneasel and Aerodactyl. Now my favourite part about the set is Final Gambit, now this is to mainly to either get rid of threats, or to do enough damage to be in range of getting revenge killed. Now, what I love about this set is how Accelgor can do 2 roles, either get rid of a threat to my team, or put up hazards to where other mons can potentially sweep.

Now the main reason why I have Sitrus Berry/Focus Sash is because first of all, Accelgor is the fastest pokemon in the tier, therefore only Scarfers can outspeed it, and so the purpose of this is mainly to live a strong hit with my sash, or if I have Sitrus, live a hit regardless and heal up, get my Unburden up in order to outspeed common scarfers and therefore guarantee 1/2 layers of spikes before dying, therefore the main purpose of the set is to either gurantee 1/2 layers of spikes before death, or get rid of a threat/do a very hefty chunk to them so they are in range of getting revenge killed. It's absolutely not perfect. Why? Rotom. This is the absolute counter to this set because Accelgor gets completely walled by Rotom. Bug Buzz doesn't do enough damage to Rotom for a 3HKO unless it gets the highest damage role possible, and I can't set up hazards because of Defog. Also priority users can ignore Accelgor's increased speed and if it's strong enough, Accelgor will only get up 1 layer of spikes up.
 
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Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
-> A+

I think Aerodactyl is particularly effective right now for quite a few reasons. For one, I think the shift towards more offensive teams that we’ve noticed makes Aerodactyl a much better breaker than it has been in the past. This has been a gradual change that sort of started when Slowbro and Diancie rose to RU, but I think that now the change is more noticeable than ever. Being able to take on pretty much nearly every top tier threat offensively is hugely beneficial, especially when paired by the omnipresence of Toxic Spikes (speaking of that, Aerodactyl is able to threaten Garbodor, which is somewhat of a plus). I wouldn’t say much else has changed for Aerodactyl in the past few weeks, I think its effectiveness has just increased due to the increased usage in offensive archetypes, paired with players finally discovering just how effective Aerodactyl may be.

This next nomination is going to be a massive stretch, and I’m genuinely interested in the thoughts people may have on this nomination. This is purely speculation; I don’t necessarily have an overwhelming opinion on the matter, but I think getting some discussion on it would be fantastic, especially considering how the meta has been progressing after we recently banned Vileplume, one of the best answers to this strategy / Pokemon.

-> S

That being said, I think Garbodor could potentially be worthy of S-rank. I’m a bit on the fence about this, especially since there are other Toxic Spikes users that are very effective (Weezing in particular). However, it is clear that Garbodor stands out as the most obvious candidate, and with how prominent Toxic Spikes have been in the past few weeks, I believe it may be necessary to give some credit where credit is due. For one, Vileplume was recently banned, which was pretty much one of the only Toxic Spike absorbers in the tier, leaving Garbodor itself to fill this role (the other two are in the air, being Golbat and Weezing). This obviously leaves a lot of room for Toxic Spikes to be thrown onto teams, especially offensive teams, considering there isn’t a lot stopping you from at least getting a Rapid Spin user poisoned (I think that is also one of the reasons why Blastoise is such a commonly used spinner due to having access to Refresh, although that point is rather small considering role compression is the biggest reason why Blastoise is used so much). There isn’t really much else to talk about; I think most users agree that Toxic Spikes are the biggest problem this tier faces today (although it is extremely unlikely -and basically confirmed – that Toxic Spikes will not be banned from SM NU). Most of that is really attributed to Garbodor, I think much more so than Weezing (and obviously much more so than other setters). Therefore, I think the prominence of Toxic Spikes in the meta would be best reflected with a rise to S-rank with Garbodor, for not only that, but also for the fact that it is the only Toxic Spikes absorber itself, and with little Heal Bell users to spare besides Vaporeon, it is clear that Garbodor is a huge asset to a team.
 

Zneon

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192712
-> A+

I truly do think Blastoise is A+ worthy, this is easily one of the most useful hazard removers in the tier, if not the most useful, due to the ability to switch in to the majority of the SR setters in the tier due to not only great bulk, but also Refresh to remove status so it can continue its role without being crippled, which is really useful against Druddigon who like to run Glare to cripple othes, and overall sets it apart from other hazard removers, as well as its typing being fanastic defensively, and one of the most spammable moves in the game in Scald, allowing to kill most SR setters or at least cripple them with chip damage and a potential burn, and Ice Beam to stop the common Dhelmise from spinblocking, considering how common TSpikes are in the meta, it's access to remove them and Refresh to not get crippled overtime like other forms of hazard control makes it incredibly useful in a team and can fit on so many.
 
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poh

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B --> B+

I believe offensive toad is as good of a rocker as Palossand and personally think offers more to a team. STABS + Protect/Sludge Bomb allows you to threaten a multitude of passive mons like most rockers but also gives you a fairly safe move in Sludge Bomb. Protect is good for scouting and lefties recovery obviously. The Z set has 0 problems with threatning Xatu while other rockers bank on setup and correct prediction. Offensive Seismitoad distinguishes itself from other rockers that tend to be a tad more defensively oriented.

:sneasel:
A --> A-

Does anyone use this? I haven't seen this mon anywhere in months and I know usage doesnt necessarily correlate with how good a mon is in a meta.
Both S-rank mons beat it easily and are everywhere. In terms of consistency i think Pangoro has way more success in the current meta and has the added benefit of not being as susceptible to hazards.
 
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Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Thoughts of the A rankings cause tbh those are the only ones I use the majority of the time :p

-> A+

Between it's Z-Sets and Choice Band, Aerodactyl has truly risen the bar in terms of offensive wallbreaking in the tier. Taking advantage of the rise of threats such as Incineroar, Garbador, Heliolisk, and Slowking alongside the decrease of checks such as Sneasel, I truly feel Aero has the potential of being one of the tier's best revenge killers alongside Scarf Pass. The flexibility between it's coverage options which often dictate what can actually check it also provides it a surplus in terms of adding ambiguity on how to counteract it. It also pairs very well with a bunch of other offensive threats such as Lisk, Vivillon, and Delphox which further makes it splashable on a bunch of teams despite the rise of certain checks such as Blastoise and Rhydon (which both easily get worn down, esp with Tspikes being as common as ever). Aero just really good rn.

:blastoise:-> A+

Should have probably risen last slate, but alongside Dhlemise and sometimes Golbat and Decidueye, Toise is the face of hazard removal in the tier. Further pushing it's viability rn is it's ability to soft-check dangerous threats such as the aforementioned Aero, Incineroar, and Mega Glalie alongside a great matchup versus the tier's common SR setters in Rhydon and Steelix (and even defensive Drud if carrying Ice Beam), Toise has a great impact on teambuilding enough to warrant a rise rn.


:Rotom:-> A

Specs Rotom is a beast right now and I believe the combination of that set + it's Z move Defog sets makes it warranting of a rise alone. However, due to the prevalence of Rapid Spin users right now, Rotom has a great niche as acting as a potential great spinblocker (mainly against Toise since Dhelmise can still threaten an OHKO with it's coverage). Solid matchup versus Steelix is also great right now too especially with the Hex set that still sees some play from time to time. While the rise of offensive Drudiggon may be an annoyance to Rotom, I personally it has a positive matchup versus the majority of common metagame staples to go up to A.

:Sneasel:-> A-

Honestly, with the constant increase in Incineroar usage alongside other revenge killers such as Pass, Aerodactyl, and Togedemaru having high usage as well, Sneasel struggles to wallbreak as proficiently as it could in previous metas. While Pursuit support is great, especially considering how Ghost types are more common now to not help in spinblocking, but also check the ever so dangerous Heliolisk. However, Aero has kinda taken over the role as of late thanks to it's better Speed tier and wider variety of sets, despite it lacking STAB on the move. I also agree that Pangoro kinda does the whole "Spam Knock Off" job better even if it is slower since it's coverage enables it to break past it's most common checks, unlike Sneasel.

:Garbodor:-> Stay in A+

While I agree that Garb is in it's best state that it's ever been, completely aiding in warping the tier around Spikes + Toxic Spikes hazard stacking, I just don't feel that it has as much of an impact that Incin and Pass do to the same degree in order to warrant S at this point. This is mainly due to the prevalence of other Poison types such as Weezing and Golbat that also see considerable usage due to their own unique perks that make them stand out alongside the higher usage in Defog Rotom which can completely nullify Garbador's role, especially against defensive sets. I feel the meta will adapt to Garb more in more as other hazard removal starts to get more usage, while SR setters such as Steelix and Rhydon continue to beat it on the 1v1. I say keep it in A+ for now
 
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