Lower Tiers USUM NU Viability Rankings - v2

yeezyknows

Banned deucer.
I want to disagree with both of the aero --> A+ noms

While it's obviously an incredibly versatile and powerful means of breaking, trapping and speed control, it does have several notable limitations.

The two most common sets are z-move and CB, both of which have numerous overt flaws. For example, the z sets are relatively passive when compared to the CB sets, as the majority of them are walled by one of palossand, toise, rhydon, or lix, depending on the z-move (i've seen flyinium, rockium, groundium, and waterium- with each one struggling to break one of the four aforementioned mons). This difficulty in breaking is compounded by the natural synergy of toise+one of rhydon/lix, as you're likely to find a pairing of the two together on a large proportion of builds.

CB, conversely, has the breaking power that z-move can lack, albeit at the expense of longevity. This longevity, however, is relatively essential towards aero's general viability. While z-move can freely switch in on incoming knock offs from mons such as pivot incin, cb cannot. This, in conjunction with the now necessary 252 speed EVs for opposing aeros, means that cb aero is incredibly frail. This frailty naturally awards CB aero few switchins, a shortcoming exacerbated by its rocks weakness.

tl:dr - z-move is too passive and cb is too frail to warrant an A+ rise.
 
It's time for the final update before the last tier shift of gen 7!


Code:
Rises:
Aerodactyl: A > A+
Blastoise: A > A+
Whimsicott: B- > B+
Vivillon: B > B+
Absol: C+ > B-
Clawitzer: D > C
Weezing: A > A+
Seismitoad: B > B+
Rotom: A- > A
Silvally-Steel: D > C

Drops:
Regirock: C+ > C
Audino-Mega: B- > C+
Sneasel: A > A-
And here's a new discussion slate while we wait for the final tier shift of the gen.
Code:
Heliolisk: A+ > S
Slowking: A+ > S
Dhelmise: A > A+
Exeggutor-A: A- > B+
Golbat: B+ > B
Clefairy: UR > C / C+
Silvally-Poison: UR > C
Mesprit: C > D
 
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B- ---> B+

I feel like Guzzlord has a solid place in the current metagame so I wanted to nom it lol. Honestly it's such a good blanket check to a bunch of threats like Dhelmise, Steelix, Rotom, Slowking, Xatu, Delphox, Decid and a bunch of other things if you play your cards right but then also packs a punch alongside. One of the things I also wanted to highlight was it's one of the few mons that can withstand Swords Dance Incin and OHKO in return which is a good niche too. I wasn't a big fan of the current sets and found this one below to be more effective right now.


Guzzlord @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Knock Off
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Toxic

This is a set i've been using lately on ladder and you basically get the best of both worlds (utility and offense) and this is lowkey annoying to switch into. Honestly Dark Pulse is pretty mediocre and even AV slowking can still stay in if it wants to so knock just has a lot more usefulness in general (crippling AV mons, removing Incin's berry, evio and taking off choice items) a highlight is it gives you a better match up vs Golbat and then OHKO's with Z draco. Toxic cripples any bulky mons you'd naturally struggle against (comfey, mega audino, Vaporeon, Torterra etc), it's more useful in the long run over heavy slam. If you can predict a band /knock off, it will do pitul damage which comes in very handy. Max defense makes you surprisingly bulky and helps vs SD Incin, you chew the hit then OHKO with Z draco.

+2 252 Atk Incineroar Malicious Moonsault vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Guzzlord: 309-365 (52.6 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Incineroar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Guzzlord: 230-271 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And as a bonus, scarf passi fails to OHKO if they really want to click CC then you just OHKO back! :heart:

252 Atk Passimian Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Guzzlord: 426-504 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

tl:dr - niche blanket check, good utility and breaks down cores.
 

Rabia

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rises
:comfey: A- -> A+
Comfey is the deadliest win condition in the tier by a mile, and I think despite the prevalence of Weezing and Garbodor it should rise. I think the major thing that is going in Comfey's direction is how easy it is to support; all you really need is something like Aerodactyl to pressure checks like Steelix, Delphox, and Weezing, and you can generally tech whichever Hidden Power you need from there on. Obviously the hard part is choosing which Hidden Power to go with, because no matter what Comfey will have its checks based on that, but I don't really view that as enough of a negative to keep Comfey down.

:charizard: C -> B-
Charizard has been popping up more and more frequently as a really potent sweeper with Z-Celebrate. In particular, it benefits greatly from the prevalence of Blastoise builds, since they generally lack a solid switch-in to specially offensive Fire-types unless they're running Druddigon, which isn't a particularly difficult Pokemon to wear down. Additionally, Charizard really doesn't require all that much support to function well; you're looking at needing to keep Stealth Rock off the field (not really hard, we have a LOT of viable options) and maybe a Pursuit trapper to deal with Slowking. We've seen this Pokemon get lots of success in tournaments, with Jrdn showcasing this guy a lot. I know quziel has also been an advocate of Charizard in recent times.

:ferroseed: C+ -> B-
I think Ferroseed is sneakily pretty decent currently. Whimsicott seems to be picking up traction again in favor of Alolan Exeggutor and Sceptile, and Ferroseed easily switches into it, fearing only the really rare Knock Off and I guess Switcheroo. However, there are two major reasons that Ferroseed is a more viable option right now: Comfey dropping Hidden Power Fire in favor of Hidden Power Ground and the prevalence of Blastoise and Dhelmise. Ferroseed is actually able to keep Spikes up against these two Pokemon, which gives it a valuable niche. Being walled by Xatu will never not suck, but I think dicking over two of the most common forms of removal in the tier while walling a few wallbreakers and sweepers is worth a rise.

:silvally-steel: (steel) C -> C+
Please look at the other Pokemon in C. This Pokemon is significantly better than any of them. Like, Silvally-Steel isn't nearly as good as it was when Vanilluxe was in the tier, but Vaporeon balance is still a super strong archetype, and a Toxic Spikes-immune Defogger is a huge niche to have currently.

drops

:glalie-mega: A- -> B+
Mega Glalie is an alright enough Pokemon, but it's just walled by so many common Pokemon in the tier to the point it struggles to really do much of anything in games. Like, a team can have all four of Incineroar / Passimian / Steelix / Blastoise, and what is Mega Glalie doing in this matchup? Common builds just really hamper its effectiveness.

:piloswine: B- -> C+
I think Piloswine is incredibly hard to justify using over other options. Like, the problem I've mainly run into is that it lacks the power Rhydon has to get past Blastoise and other bulky Water-types, and its bulk is just not that great. On offensive teams, I usually find myself turning to Druddigon because of the utility it provides being so much more.

slate

:heliolisk: Eh, I don't really view Heliolisk on the level of the other S ranks. It's really vulnerable to current metagame trends I feel, and while its wallbreaking power is fucking devastating, there are games in which it's just straight up useless.
:slowking: I'm pretty sure I'm one of 3 people that thinks Slowking is a top 3 Pokemon ROFL. I can get behind a rise to S if anything because Slowking is so fucking versatile and covers so much of the metagame within one slot. The fall of Sneasel really helps it given that's one less threat for it to deal with, and it's just so easy to fit on teams. Sure, Blastoise gets a lot of usage right now, but I don't think this correlates to Slowking being in decline at all.
:dhelmise: Maybe? I don't know; I feel like Dhelmise builds always rely too heavily on it to do so much that they fall apart once it's gone. It's no doubt a really great Pokemon between how fucking strong it is and all of its utility (Knock Off is really good btw, try it if you haven't yet), but eh?
:exeggutor-alola: Yeah, this thing is honestly just not great right now. I'd say Guzzlord is better personally.
:golbat: Nah, I'd keep this at B+. It sits on the Toxic Spike setters if running Taunt and just has so much versatility in what it can bring utility-wise. I also still like its defensive traits, and it's not as vulnerable to the Comfey techs seeing as Hidden Power Psychic isn't really a thing lol.
:clefairy: People use this? Sounds nice in theory because Blastoise sitter while checking some of the special wallbreakers, but eh. Feels almost as kneejerk as Silvally-Poison.
:silvally-poison: (poison) Nope!
:mesprit: This mon is dog ROFL. I've tried to get mileage out of it, and it just does fucking nothing every game. Having to waste your Z-Crystal on this Pokemon to get any use out of it is such a fucking L.

other comments/noms I don't care enough about to write a lot for
:sceptile: still dogshit and should probably drop
:vikavolt: honestly closet op right now, should probably get more playtesting
:gallade: I could see this rising and may make another post later about it; it's fucking strong as fuck lol. quziel probably has something to say about it given he's used it a fair bit recently.
:pyukumuku::quagsire::audino-mega: they all suck
 
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Rabia

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alright attempt number two at generating some conversation. I guess I can expand on some of the nominations I didn't last time. also have some others.

rises
:steelix: A -> A+
Steelix has continued to be the most used Stealth Rock setter in both ladder and tournament play for awhile now, and I think the argument that it's worse than Rhydon is definitely old by now. It's just such a safe pick in a tier where shit like Aerodactyl, Comfey, and to a lesser extent Heliolisk are Pokemon you have to always keep in mind when building, and it's got some really annoying tech like Curse, Roar, and Toxic + Protect to make it somewhat unpredictable and thus not a super linear Pokemon to play against. Like, its consistency is so fucking valuable and definitely warrants recognition.

:gallade: C+ -> B-
Swords Dance Gallade is fucking strong as hell right now; it takes advantage of Blastoise + Weezing + Steelix defensive cores really easily and is generally nice for utility thanks to Knock Off. While Passimian of course gives it competition for a teamslot due to their typings, we have more than enough alternative options for speed control to make up for it. Also, take a look at the rest of C+; it's a whole bunch of niche garbage that sees use on very limited numbers of builds. I think Gallade easily has more application than the rest of C+.

drops
:sceptile: A -> A-
Sceptile just isn't on the level of the other A rank Pokemon anymore for a few reasons. For starters, it just doesn't wallbreak as well as it used to anymore; many meta staples like Weezing, Garbodor, and Delphox make it significantly harder for Sceptile to have too much of an impact outside of using Leaf Storm and then ceding momentum to the opposing team. It also struggles with getting revenge killed by the most common revenge killers of the tier in Aerodactyl, Passimian, and Togedemaru. I'd definitely keep it at the top of A- because a great Speed tier + strong Leaf Storm is huge, but I don't view it as comparable to the other A ranks at the moment.

:braviary: B+ -> B
Braviary is really not good right now. Steelix is still top tier, with Roar variants picking up usage to make up for the shaky matchup against Substitute + Bulk Up Braviary. Additionally, Rotom is stupidly good right now, which directly fucks Braviary, and Togedemaru's continued stay as a metagame staple really takes a lot away from Braviary's potential. Fightinium Z sets are still nice for blasting back Steelix and Rhydon, but they're significantly easier to manage and pressure due to their decreased defensive presence.

:audino-mega: :pyukumuku: C+ -> C
Stall is awful, especially with Quagsire leaving. It's just open to too many Pokemon in the tier and struggles to see any consistent usage on ladder or in tournament play because of how matchup reliant it is. You really only see it getting brought in tournaments to fish for matchup, while its ladder usage is usually banking on the low quality of ladder play. I don't think feasting on generally inferior players with stall is indicative of how bad stall is currently.

some food for thought
:charizard: :absol: honestly I nommed Charizard up to B-. but I could see it and its pretty much required teammate Absol going up to B pretty easily, maybe even B+ lol.. like this core is just super fucking good at abusing the Blastoise teams everyone is spamming while still having a very winnable matchup against Slowking and Delphox due to Absol's support. at the minimum, I'd definitely consider these for B.

:decidueye: it feels like a bad Dhelmise a lot of the time. maybe Nasty Plot deserves more play? it's a pretty frightening breaker and makes Incineroar less problematic. idk, part of me says this is a B rank Pokemon as opposed to B+.
 

Zneon

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-> S

Agree
Slowking is so flexible and easy to put onto a team, you got Colbur Berry, Phys defensive, Nasty Plot, AV, Scald being such a spammable move and making king a reliable threat to various top threats like Incin, Passi and Aero. Slowking is fantastic in a sense that it will be really consistant in not only its team with Scald burns and being in a battle for as long as it wants because of Regenerator and Slack Off, or have some weird options to deal with its checks/counters because its movepool extends beyond the horizon, you got Dragon tail, Fire Blast, Grass Knot, Focus Blast, Trick, Shadow Ball, Future Sight, Twave, Calm Mind, Slack Off, Toxic Nasty Plot, this basically allows Slowking to be customized and allows it to fit on so many teams, not only is it extremely splashable, but it can be a huge threat, like a mentioned before Nasty Plot and Calm Mind can turn from a bulky mon with nice utility to a threatening wallbreaker with the potential to beat all its counters with the high coverage listed above. Slowking is so splashable with its utility and dangerous with NP is great. Role compression is really important and the fact that Slowking can provide so much utility, deal consistant damage in one mon and be really consistant with it is invaluable, S rank for me.

large.Animated.gif.0b29042095b5158b055e5239d801a6af.gif
-> S

Agree

I do agree with Heliolisk should rise to S. It is an extremely threatening wallbreaker, especially with Plume gone, it can spam Tbolt and Hyper Voice for great damage or just Volt Switch to gain free momentum, it does have checks such as and Rotom, Dhelmise and Decidueye. But Helio can deal with them with its impressive coverage, you got Surf, Dark Pulse and Focus Blast, basically allowing Lisk to threaten its "counters" with a coverage move and in an unfavourable matchup, it just pivots out to a mon to deal with them. Heliolisk is really excellent in a sense that it just gives free momentum to a team while still being threatening to the opposing team due to its coverage. Ground types can switch into Volt Switch and force a switch, but they lose to Surf, Rotom, Dhelm and Decidueye can switch into Tbolt and for Dhelmise and Decidueye, they can switch into Surf but they have to be weary of Dark Pulse, and usually unfavourable matchups such as Incin, Drud, just forces Heliolisk out to be used later to wear down or straight up 2HKO something. Anyways, it is its ability to pivot out of tough situations to be used for later, gain momentum, and truly excellent coverage moves that allows it to threaten so much of the tier that makes it the premier wallbreaker in the tier, so yeah Lisk to S.

Other noms I agree with
Dhelmise: A -> A+
Steelix: A -> A+
Comfey: A -> A+
Sceptile: A -> A-
 
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I think Scrafty should be talked about more. The bulk up set with 248HP/ 8 Atk/ 252 SpDef can tank most of the metas big threats, while being able to recover off the damage with Rest + Shed Skin and Drain punch. It's super easy to get in on mons like Glalie, Incin, Mismagius, etc. and start bulking up on the switch. Unless its comfey coming out, there shouldn't be too much that can hit scrafty hard and tank a drain punch back. Shed skin is pretty clutch too, doing away with weezing burns and tangela's sleep powder. The downsides to trying to sweep with this set are pretty small. Again, comfey and whimsicott come to mind, but unless you are fighting someone with a random superpower or dazzling gleam in the back you should be set. Scrafty's support can be diverse as well, you need fairy checks (probably garbodor or weezing) but once they are removed and scrafty gets a bulk up off, good luck. Sweeping is not all this set can do either. I mentioned comfey as the counter for this build, but it can't even OHKO without boosts. Specs whimsicott definetly will though. Scrafy also tanks specs Clawitzer's aura shpere, braviary's brave bird, and dhelmise's steelium z all unboosted. Overall, scrafty is one of the better defensive mons with this set, while being able to actively recover off the damage and add onto that attack stat. An A- ranking for scrafty makes sense because its DDance sets aren't as defensive, reducing opportunites to set up and being not as durable overall. But I would not be mad at anyone if they decided to move him up.
 

Rabia

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hi lord Rabia here with the vr update (will bother someone to update the op)



rises
:heliolisk: A+ -> S
:steelix: A -> A+
:comfey: A- -> A
:guzzlord: B- -> B+
:togedemaru: B -> B+
:absol: B- -> B
:ferroseed: C+ -> B-
:gallade: C+ -> B-
:silvally:(steel) C -> C+
:clefairy: UR -> C
:silvally:(poison) UR -> C

drops

:sceptile: A -> A-
:exeggutor-alola: A- -> B+
:glalie-mega: A- -> B+
:decidueye: B+ -> B
:piloswine: B- -> C+
:pyukumuku: C+ -> C

discussion slate

:seismitoad: B+ -> A-
:whimsicott: B+ -> A-
:blastoise: A+ -> A/A-
:sceptile: A- -> B+

next slate will probably be the last one for this generation, so make sure to get whatever nominations you want in before we vote
 
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now i'm not much of an nu player but i've played a bit of it and well

:seismitoad: indifferent
i'm indifferent because seismitoad is mainly used as a rocker, and it gets overshadowed by popular rockers such as steelix palossand or even rhydon. it matches up good with a lot of higher tier mons like incineroar, aerodactyl and blastoise. but honestly, blastoise can do everything seismitoad can do because scald does jack shit to xatu which just beats toat 1v1. except toad sets rocks and turtle spins :blobshrug:

:whimsicott: agree
i can see whimiscott going up. my personal favorite set for this thing is specs because it has nice coverage and can really hit some mons. it shits on threats like blastoise, eggy, rhydon, druddigon, pangoro, and steelix to an extent.

:blastoise: disagree
honestly this turtle does nothing but spin

:sceptile: agree
sceptile gets absolutely eaten by good mons like steelix xatu and weezing lol
 
Seismitoad for A-: agree

This boy is a really great rocker in my opinion because of the movepool it has, it can run Knock Off to punish the Xatu switch in or defoggers like Rotom. The toad is also a pretty good offensive mon too, it utilizes a Z-Move pretty good too with Z-Refresh, for example, to get you to full HP. And it also has 2 immunitys which is cool for building a team with it, since it prevents your opponent from spamming water/electric moves.
 

Louna

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Seismitoad to A-: Agree


Seismitoad is in my opinion one of the best rock setter in the tier atm, it might seems pretty passive at first, but it has a lot of options to actually cripple or lure pretty much any hazard removal in the tier, with knock off or z ice punch its able to do heavy damage to Dhelmise/Golbat/Xatu/Decidueye/Rotom/Druddigon, Refresh+Toxic allows to deal with Blastoise. His pannel of resistance and immunity is just awesome as well, being able to stop volt switch, immune to water, resisting to fire & rock with only one mon is just amazing to check some of the tier staples such as inci, aero & cie. Also, if holding a z crystal, Seismitoad is probably one of the best Knock Off absorber in the tier

The biggest downside of Seismitoad is his lack of reliable recovery which can also be somewhat patched with a z Refresh set as stated above, or with Protect+Leftovers pretty easily

to resume: Seismitoad has plenty of options to beat or cripple most hazard removal, has huge role compression thanks to its double typing and can even "neutralize" his biggest downside with semi-reliable recovery in z refresh or protect lefties, and he's one of the best Knock Off absorber.

Blastoise to A/A-: Agree

Blastoise is actually a pretty decent spinner, but most of the time, it'll be a dead-weight because of how passive it is, most ghost-type can switch in kinda freely (only fearing toxic because of how weak Scald is and directly pressure Blastoise in return), while it still can cripple things with Toxic or a Scald burn, given how weak Blastoise is most of the time, you'll just spin and then something scary appear in front of your turtle which mean you'll be one step behind at thatpoint, being an hazard removal that is affected by both Spikes & Toxic Spikes doesn't help either in such an hazard infested meta. It also has a huge 4MSS as it both wants Refresh and Ice Beam as his last slot, the first is crucial to not be worn down too quickly, while if you want to actually pressure Dhelmise you'll need Ice Beam (I don't think Toxic-less Toise is a thing that seems soooo passive correct me if im wrong), it also has the same downside than Seismitoad being the lack of reliable recovery outside of Z-Refresh or Leftovers

to resume: Blastoise is an okay spinner but is too passive and let too much things come in a bit too freely and has a hard time punishing them, ghost-type switch into toise pretty easily, and being vulnerable to spikes & tspikes doesn't help either,
 
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poh

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Slate:

:seismitoad: B+ -> A- Agree with users above.
:whimsicott: B+ -> A- Agree, whimsi might be weak as shit but still annoys teams heavily with knock, switcheroo etc. I've been messing around with Growth sets too and they're decent bop. Also fairy stab is always good by default.
:blastoise: A+ -> A/A- Indifferent.
:sceptile: A- -> B+ Disagree. I know Rabia absolutely hates this mon :pikuh: but I think that the fact it survived so many metas really shows this mon is durable. Tried tect on it to scout pass and toge and it worked so just pair it with weezing for delicious ch*p. Leaf Storm still hits hard, having low base hp + giga drain is also sweet and ofc focus blast fucks incineroar, often seen on teams as sole grass resist. So yeah never ever drop this mon, it deserves to chill in the A club.

My own noms:

:Victreebel: UR -> C+/ B-

I've already spoken about this mon here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-nu-stage-16-toxic.3650934/page-2#post-8242131
In short: both offensive and defensive sets are good. Use this mon cause it's decent. imo it's better than Absol and Malamar for sure.


:sigilyph: A- -> A

This mon has been the star of this snake edition. Cosmic Power sets with all it's variants are soo good and people don't know how to prep vs it. cba to link snake games but it literally won some games as soon as it started setting up kek.

:togedemaru: B???!!!!! -> A

2nd best scarfer, good defensive utility, extra cheese to win games. This mon HAS to be atleast A- by the time we wrap up gen7nu. Toge has been spammed in Snake and for good reason. It gives teams so much in 1 slot: speed control (scarf and nuzzle), secondary flying check, secondary helio check, immunity to all kinds of poison, baits in steelix for powerhouses like eggy and pangoro etc. Like Sceptile, Togedemaru needs access to the A club.
 

Ren-chon

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:seismitoad: B+ -> A-: Agree

Absolutely agree. Its a rocker that doesnt fear bulky waters, can beat (or at least doesnt straight up lose) most spinners/defoggers like toise, the silvallys, rotom, xatu and so on. Adding to that, seismi is also surprisingly hard to predict on what set it can run, as weve seen this snake: fast sets with refresh/knock, bulkier ones with refresh/tox, and even offensive with waterium, groundium and icium.

:blastoise: A+ -> A: Agree

Blastoise should drop to A, but no more than that. The glorious days for the water-turtle dog are long gone, with people nowadays moving a bit more to removal options that dont lose to TSpikes (rotom and the silvallys come to mind) or arent overly passive (such as dhel). That coupled with the increase in usage of seismitoad and sigilyph means toise is very easy to punish and take advantage of, although it still is one of our most solid removal options so it definitely shouldnt go any lower than A.

:whimsicott: B+ -> A-: Agree || :sceptile: A- -> B+: Disagree

Whimsicott is actually surprisingly good right now. Its fast, has a great typing (offensive fast mons that dont fear pass are huge rn), is incredibly versatile, and can get through poisons quite easily if you predict well enough. On top of that, the fact it gets U-Turn means it can almost always keep momentum on your side as the things that usually switch into it, like weez, garb, lix and bulky inci arent exactly hard to take advantage of with other mons. As for sceptile, while I agree its not as good as it used to be, it by no way deserves to drop to B+. It still outspeeds like 90% of the meta, hits incredibly hard, and is a pain to switch into if you arent running stuff like sdef weez, sdef garb or poisonvally, although the last 2 can actually lose to scep if its running a mixed set with EQ.

As for some other noms I also agree with:

:victreebel: UR -> C+

Gotta agree with poh here, although I believe B- would be a bit too high at first (even tho I think vic is at the very least better than seed but oh well!). I cant talk much about defensive sets because I havent had much success with it personally, but offensive vic with sleep powder and a Z move is so incredibly stressful to play against. As we all know, grass/poison is one of the best offensive typings in NU and its not very different for the grass dog. The ability to 1) nuke shit between leaf storm/z-sludge; 2) put its potential checks to sleep (and, if you get lucky sleep rolls, you can even straight up beat some of them); and 3) cripple physical attackers is absolutely insane. It also has the bonus of absorbing toxic spikes and being a poison that can also check bulky waters which is wonderful.

:togedemaru: B+ -> A-/A

One of the most splashable mons rn, this rat is just amazing, and the fact it sits at top 1 on the snake usage stats further proves it. It outspeeds every single relevant mon in the meta with scarf, is able to keep generating momentum with u-turn, and has an actually good typing both defensively and offensively (youd be surprised by how many teams straight up lose to this after you take down seismi/lix). Also its a god send to more offensive teams due to being a scarf who can check both comfey and helio all on the same slot. So yeah, the rat dog should definitely rise up a spot or two.
 

scorbunnys

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Hi, trainers
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B+ to A Agree
It has a very valuable support for some balanced teams, B + rank is not a range that deserves, since having good typing and something to be a good defense, the truth is that A rank could be

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B+ to A- Agree
Well, it can be a mon of the most annoying if you know how to use, since your typing despite its weaknesses, compensates for it being strong to two good guys, Water and maybe Dark, mainly the first one, I would say that A- rank is your perfect range, since although it is not the best mon, I would say it is very good, even A-

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A- to B+ Disagree
This mon is quite good, good ability and stats qualify him as a good wall breaker, now that seismitoad is better, the truth that Sceptile could even climb, I am not the best NU player, much less, but I can say that Sceptile is fun to very good wall breaker, for my concept it's fine where it is

1573506771753.png
A+ to A- Agree
The truth is that before I would say that he was the best NU with Incineroar, but now between both Whimsicott and Slowking, it is no longer the same, Rapid Spin may leave him decently well, but he will never shine so much, since his threats and many factors have made it fall to A-

1573506937337.png B+ to A Agree
It is very balanced, Scarf makes this little boy make damage, the real reason I have to increase it is that it is very splashing, this flirtatious rat is very offensive, achieving the top 1 in the snake, it has its flaws, such as being weak by four to Earth, but I would say that A rank would be your perfect rank, Climb to Togedemaru.

1573507106903.png
UR to C- Agree
Well, the truth is that there is no sun, this makes its niche quite limited, but Leaf Storm Z in tournaments is decent, I would say that C-rank may be, but it is very overrated, even so, it is not bad, C - rank

what do you think?, bye
 

Rabia

Ganyu my beloved
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP Co-Leader
I probably won't go super in-depth with this post, but I have a couple nominations to make for our last slate of the generation:

rises
:slowking: -> S
Pushing with this nomination again because Slowking in my eyes is still better than Heliolisk, which is in S. I shouldn't need to expand a whole lot on why Slowking is as good as it is; it has unparalleled set versatility--viable versatility, might I add--, it soft checks so much of the tier between its sets... it's just good lol. Much like last time I can't necessarily cite a specific trend in the meta that benefits Slowking outside of Blastoise's decreased usage/viability meaning Slowking gets better by proxy.

:sigilyph: -> A
The ladder mon of death. Flyinium Z sets are really easy to support, and wallbreaker sets support shit like Comfey super well. It has a surprising amount of utility on Life Orb sets too between Roost to pivot into stuff like Slowking, Blastoise, and Weezing more reliably and Protect for insurance against Aerodactyl, Sneasel, and Passimian. That Z-Toxic set is also pretty flames and can win games in a similar way to Calm Mind + Z-Air Slash. I think it'll always be hard to push Sigilyph too far up the VR because of the prominence of some shit that gives it issues, but low A seems reasonable.

:whimsicott: -> A-
Breaks Poison-types at least as well as if not better than Sceptile but also provides some decent defensive utility thanks to its Fairy typing. I find offensive Defog sets to be half decent too if you're pairing them with Xatu or another form of removal. Defensive sets with Rocky Helmet also probably have some merit.

:seismitoad: -> A-
Water immunity + Electric immunity + Rock resist + Refresh + blah blah blah. The point is Seismitoad gives teams a whole lot in one slot, which eases up your other teamslots a fair bit. It can form really nice defensive cores with Rotom and Dhelmise to give Heliolisk a lot of issues, and its winning matchup against most forms of removal (it can have a winning one against any remover it wants tbh with the right set) is a great quality for a Stealth Rock setter to have.

:togedemaru: -> A-
Shit mon, but it gives teams a great amount of role compression between soft checking stuff like Comfey, Heliolisk, and Whimsicott and supporting wallbreakers like Pangoro and Sigilyph with Nuzzle and U-turn (or potentially running Encore to support setup sweepers like Comfey). Usage doesn't really mean a whole lot imo when looking to viability, but iirc it was the most used Pokemon in Snake, so that probably means something at least.

:victreebel: -> C
it's pretty bad in all honesty but it can be annoying enough in the right mtchup. i'm not sure yet if offensive or defensive is better but strength sap + sleep move is annoying enough. it also soft checks passimian well enough ig.

drops
:blastoise: -> A-
No longer that great imo, especially with the rise of Pokemon like Sigilyph and Heliolisk as well as even Lum Berry Dhelmise that can give it some major headaches. It's a shit check to Aerodactyl and Incineroar and only really switches into Steelix with impunity out of all of our hazard setters. I view it like Togedemaru: it does a whole lot of things, none of them very well.

:sneasel: -> B+
not very good unless you have the right matchup, which is very hard to get given the prevalence of shit like Incineroar, Steelix, Blastoise (still), and Passimian. it's frankly just outdone by Aerodactyl as a Pursuit trapper, and Aerodactyl doubles down on its dominance with nice defensive utility and versatility between sets. Sneasel just doesn't contribute to teams the same way it used to due to its much lower effectiveness.

:scrafty: -> B+
inconsistent, struggles to get going because of how many Pokemon we have that outspeed it even when boosted, pretty weak, gets ass blasted by both of our Fairy-types, blah blah. it's been bad for awhile imo and nothing has changed for the better.

:regirock: -> UR
it was good for like a month until people realized it doesn't actually check anything very well. Realistic Waters was right yet again

good gen, lads. let's keep this shit up next time :)
 
Last edited:
Final update of generation 7! Thank you to everyone that participated in this project, whether you were part of the team, or making posts in the thread, your contributions are what makes this such a great community project and resource.



Code:
Rises:
Seismitoad: B+ > A-
Whimsicott: B+ > A-
Sigilyph: A- > A
Togedemaru: B+ > A-
Victreebel: UR > C
Slowking: A+ > S
Abomasnow-Mega: B- > B

Drops:
Regirock: C > UR
Audino-Mega: C+ > C
Sneasel: A- > B+
Scrafty: A- > B+
Absol: B > B-
Palossand: B+ > B
Mesprit: C > UR
See you all in March!
 

Rabia

Ganyu my beloved
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP Co-Leader
S Rank

S Rank


:incineroar: Incineroar
:passimian: Passimian
:slowking: Slowking

S- Rank

:heliolisk: Heliolisk
:steelix: Steelix

A Rank

A+ Rank


:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl
:garbodor: Garbodor
:sigilyph: Sigilyph
:weezing: Weezing

A Rank

:blastoise: Blastoise
:comfey: Comfey
:druddigon: Druddigon
:pangoro: Pangoro
:rhydon: Rhydon
:seismitoad: Seismitoad
:togedemaru: Togedemaru
:xatu: Xatu

A- Rank

:delphox: Delphox
:dhelmise: Dhelmise
:rotom: Rotom
:sceptile: Sceptile
:scrafty: Scrafty
:vaporeon: Vaporeon
:vikavolt: Vikavolt
:whimsicott: Whimsicott

B Rank

B+ Rank


:braviary: Braviary
:golbat: Golbat
:guzzlord: Guzzlord
:magmortar: Magmortar
:abomasnow-mega: Mega Abomasnow
:mismagius: Mismagius
:sneasel: Sneasel

B Rank

:absol: Absol
:exeggutor-alola: Alolan Exeggutor
:decidueye: Decidueye
:medicham: Medicham
:glalie-mega: Mega Glalie
:palossand: Palossand
:victreebel: Victreebel
:vivillon: Vivillon

B- Rank

:aurorus: Aurorus
:clawitzer: Clawitzer
:clefairy: Clefairy
:ferroseed: Ferroseed
:audino-mega: Mega Audino
:pyukumuku: Pyukumuku
:samurott: Samurott

C Rank

C Rank


:accelgor: Accelgor
:charizard: Charizard
:gallade: Gallade
:hariyama: Hariyama
:piloswine: Piloswine
:silvally: Silvally-Poison
:silvally: Silvally-Steel
:torterra: Torterra
:typhlosion: Typhlosion

----

Hi, everyone. Because we had a fair few tournaments between the last VR update and now that featured SM NU, we decided to update the VR again to better reflect the current metagame.

Voters were: Eternally, EviGaro, Feliburn, Gefährlicher Random, poh, quziel, Rabia (me), Ren-chon, and shiloh. I'll cover a few of the major changes down below:

:heliolisk::steelix: Heliolisk falls down to the new S- rank, whereas Steelix rises into it. The former is honestly a case of being more threatening in the builder than in play, and its tournament usage and success just hasn't been on the level of our other S-rank Pokemon. Meanwhile, Steelix continues to be an elite Stealth Rock setter and general defensive option, serving as a good stop to foes like Aerodactyl, Comfey, and Sneasel.

:mismagius: Mismagius has seen a significant boost in usage lately. It can consistently avoid Pursuit trapping attempts with Protect, which also eases counterplay against Choice Scarf Passimian, and its Nasty Plot + Rockium Z set easily bypasses the most common Ghost-type check in the format, Incineroar.

:victreebel: Victreebel gets ranked in B as a very consistent Fighting-type answer. While it's no Vileplume, it still achieves many of the same feats except replaces sweeping potential with the ability to sleep foes.

:audino-mega::pyukumuku: We moved "stall" into B- because it's still a somewhat common archetype that continues to perform at a relatively constant rate.

:malamar::typhlosion: Malamar got unranked because it simply is too inconsistent of a sweeper to justify a slot on teams, and it does nothing defensively that you'd ask of a Dark-type. On the contrary, Typhlosion was put in C because Choice Specs sets are consistent enough and fairly easy to support to justify building around. It's not going to be running the metagame any time soon, but it's certainly worth a spot on the VR.
 

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