Lower Tiers USUM NU Viability Rankings - v2

[etern]

I'm a bit confused with some of the new implements, although I love a good E rank, why are these new mons even ranked?

I'd like to say that Regirock is mediocre and just because Diancie left, that doesn't make it much better. Being a pure rock type as defensive mon sounds good on paper but it's actually terrible when you think about it practice because almost all nu mons have super effective coverage (Magmortar, Delphox, Incineroar, Sneasel, Braviary and Sigilyph to name a few and these are all from S rank to A-. ) Also I'm not sure how Regirock beats half the mons you listed in your argument? D:

• In fact, most of Delphox's sets annoy the hell of out Regirock (loses to Grass Z, can't switch into specs and hates toxic protect sub sets)
• When was regirock a reliable stop to Golbat? Golbat can never be 2HKO and you can factor in roost halving rock damage? rip to toxic?
• Regirock fails to check Z SD Incin when at +2 it almost kills and Z EQ blows back, regirock can't even OHKO in return (Incin's most popular set)
• Just like Steelix, Regirock hates losing it item to Band Sneasel and doesnt enjoy switching into low kick which should be a standard move at this point.
• Since everyone's established that Scarf Brav isn't too great, people have run into using offensive BU sets with z and there's still the classic Sp def bulk up in which you should still be able to win
• Glalie can still be a monster with double edge + explosion. earthquake still scores good damage and it's not very hard to wear down regirock.

So if you go down the NU teambuilder, you'll actually find out Regirock has little defensive utility since it loses to most mons despite having that initial type advantage. this should probably go back to being unranked. If you're gonna use Z regi then you lose the whole appeal of using it the first place which was to be tank. Don't expect unboosted 100 attack after a Z move to get you so far.

As for Granbull, it sounds like a bad meme and should go back to being unranked. It suddenly got a raise which is pretty strange to me, who nommed it? Right now, there's actually less of a reason to use it because of the introduction of defiant Passimian which remains to be a popular fighting type. Choice Band and Z sets seems to be joke sets to me, I could just use any other wallbreaker like Pangoro who pretty much has no switch ins + resist rocks and has better speed. NU has a million slow wallbreakers anyway but this has to be one of the worst. If you're desperate in checking Medicham + Scrafty then use it but plenty of other memes have some sort of utility but stay unranked.

Scyther should go back to being unranked imo, it has no defining set and just because diancie left doesn't change much because people just go to the next best thing and nu has so many pokemon that aren't bothered by its stabs so you're just forced to u-turn all day. You highlighted Scyther for it's choice scarf set but the set (along with its others) are poor. AA can't even ohko Passimian Mismagius, Scrafty and Alolan Eggy for example which is pretty depressing, have fun running into 1000 walls on balance. Oh and looks like you'll always need rocks support too.

Let me preface this by saying that these Pokemon have been used by many people recently, not just the VR team, and we didn't just throw them into the rankings without having experience using them, like your post is regrettably implying. That being said, it's fine to disagree with and I'm happy to have calm and logical discussion on their placement so we can review them again in two weeks when the next update occurs (which we already intended to do in the first place!). I can't speak for everyone that has used these Pokemon, but I'll just give my own personal reasoning here, and clarify a couple misconceptions about them.

Firstly, you're being super harsh on Regirock. Low Kick is not standard on Sneasel by any means, and still sees substantially less usage than the far more consistent Ice Shard (sniping Sceptile, the rising Aerodactyl, Accelgor, Whimsicott, and a myriad of other things is still very useful and even necessary on certain builds). Regirock comfortably comes in on Icicle Crash and unlike Rhydon it can actually afford to take a Knock Off. Moreover, even if you are running the niche Low Kick, it's not even a guaranteed 2HKO to begin with. 252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Regirock: 152-180 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (You can even run more defence depending on the team since Regirock is very malleable, but this spread lets you always live a +2 Malicious Moonsault from Incineroar after 2 layers of spikes.) Moreover, I'm not sure how you say Glalie doesnt check Regirock when it clearly does? Double Edge is a 4HKO, EQ does even less. If you're forced to explode on Regirock, that means Regirock has done it's job of dealing with that threat, and it's fairly likely you'll have Stealth Rock up after that trade, since Double Edge into Explosion doesn't even KO it. Moving onto Delphox, we know Grassium-Z can break it, but that requires 1. having your Calm Mind set up or enough chip damage, and 2. having broken Sturdy. Let's just pretend though that those circumstances have been met, you still serve as a great check to Choice Scarf Delphox (which is just as viable as CM right now, if not even easier to fit onto teams), as well as any of the defensive sets not carrying Substitute (Substitute is very uncommon outside of a couple tournament matches, the most common sets are packing wish / protect / mystical fire / toxic). Moving on to Braviary, Scarf sees an alright amount of use, but yes, it's definitely not an amazing set. Rock Tomb with Toxic is still perfectly serviceable for breaking down Sub BU as well as being a good pivot into Brave Birds in conjunction with a secondary Flying resist that can revenge it, for example a Heliolisk or Rotom (common partners for Regirock), Fight-Z was literally built to lure Rock-types so of course it's going to have a decent matchup :shrug:.

Granbull is admittedly more of a fringe one, and I dont have quite as much experience with it as others. However it has some very potent offensive sets that I've seen in action and been impressed by, and being able to check a bunch of the dangerous Dark and Fighting-types on the rise is a valuable attribute to provide for a team, especially when you consider options like TWave and Heal Bell. I'm not sure if it'll still be ranked in 2 weeks, that all depends on how people feel and if it proves to have any worth, but that's what this thread is for and I'm pleased that you brought it up to spark more discussion!

Scyther was nommed a while ago for an SD set that people like quziel and banks have been hyping up even before the tier shift. The Choice Scarf set is something I've been using a good bit of lately and it's definitely better than you're giving it credit for. Nobody uses Scarf Scyther with the intention of killing everything immediately and wallbreaking. It's a ridiculously fast pivot that can clean late game, trap specific threats, check some specific Pokemon for offense, and bring in / synergise really well with certain wallbreakers. If you're expecting it to OHKO everything immediately then it'll definitely be disappointing, but that's not what it's supposed to function like at all. I can't speak much on the SD set as much as others can, but I'm sure people can chip in and explain the values of that set too. (Though to be clear, Scyther was primarily ranked for it's Scarf set, the SD one is still a bit undiscovered for the moment.) Also needing Stealth Rock support is something you could say for literally every Pokemon in the tier, so I'm not sure how that's an argument against ranking Scyther when the things it revenges and pivots on don't even particularly care about rocks in the grand scheme of things.

I encourage everyone to give these Pokemon a shot, try them out and share your experiences, you might be surprised by what you find! We've got a fresh new meta and things are still shaking up by the day and I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone comes up with!

 

[quziel]

Magmortar: A- => A

Thanks to Diancie and AV Slowbro no longer being in the tier, Magmortar has taken a step up in terms of its consistency. It no longer has to worry about running HP Steel, or having arguably the most splashable pokemon in the tier being a semi-reliable switchin to it. Additionally, thanks to Vital Spirit, its always guaranteed at least one safe switchin to Vileplume, which notably just rose to S. Thanks to its stats and movepool Magmortar remains one of the most customizable pokemon in NU, being able to run Elec-Z Tbolt for Slowking, EQ for delphox (this makes scarf sad, although its not an amazing set otherwise), and Ebelt / AoA sets being incredibly difficult for most teams to switch into. Mortar still maintains a good speed tier, being able to outrun a knocked Passimian easily. Thanks to its sheer potency as a wallbreaker, incredible customizability, and its good matchup to a number of highly ranked threats including Vileplume, Xatu, Weezing, and Comfey, I believe that Magmortar should rise from A- to A. I'll happily credit it for my win in G2 of my recent NU Majors series: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-892738957

Edit: Rewrote a lot of the post as it was bad.

 

[Legendary Xernn]

hi, i've never nommed a pokemon in VRs, so forgive me if i'm not doing this right.

Gallade C => C+/B-
Gallade is my favorite mon in NU, and I've had an affinity to it for a while. I think its incredible 115 SpD gets underappreciated, as its SpD makes it stand out from other physical sweepers in the tier such as Incineroar (who is contingent on AV to have a dependable SpD stat), Medicham, and Passimian.

I've seen support for this shift before in this thread, but with an SD and Knock Off set. I prefer to use this Sub Bulk Up set:
Gallade @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
Its SpD is high enough to keep its Substitute alive long enough for it to set up against mons like Houndoom (it can switch into Dark Pulse Scarf Houndoom to get the Justified boost, forcing it to switch out), Weezing, Slowking, Bulky Xatu, and Vileplume, and even some physical attackers like Steelix and Medicham. One could also use Psycho Cut instead of Knock Off because Gallade requires a lot of setting up to do decent damage with Knock Off (a good reason why it should still be pretty low).

Here are some quick calculations:
0 SpA Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 69-82 (20.2 - 24.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 79-94 (23.2 - 27.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 79-94 (23.2 - 27.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Weezing Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 57-67 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Notice how they all do really close to less than 25% damage.

252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 127-151 (37.3 - 44.4%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 102-121 (30 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Heliolisk and Abomasnow do a little more, but it's enough to give Gallade a chance to set up and then OHKO.

I also understand that this set is technically less viable than the SD set, but its success in my battling experience further proves that it should be moved up due to its versatility with two different sets. Here are some replays to support my nomination.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-894588972
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-894585164

 

[TheTraininator]

hi, i've never nommed a pokemon in VRs, so forgive me if i'm not doing this right.

Gallade C => C+/B-
Gallade is my favorite mon in NU, and I've had an affinity to it for a while. I think its incredible 115 SpD gets underappreciated, as its SpD makes it stand out from other physical sweepers in the tier such as Incineroar (who is contingent on AV to have a dependable SpD stat), Medicham, and Passimian.

I've seen support for this shift before in this thread, but with an SD and Knock Off set. I prefer to use this Sub Bulk Up set:
Gallade @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
Its SpD is high enough to keep its Substitute alive long enough for it to set up against mons like Houndoom (it can switch into Dark Pulse Scarf Houndoom to get the Justified boost, forcing it to switch out), Weezing, Slowking, Bulky Xatu, and Vileplume, and even some physical attackers like Steelix and Medicham. One could also use Psycho Cut instead of Knock Off because Gallade requires a lot of setting up to do decent damage with Knock Off (a good reason why it should still be pretty low).

Here are some quick calculations:
0 SpA Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 69-82 (20.2 - 24.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 79-94 (23.2 - 27.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 79-94 (23.2 - 27.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Weezing Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 57-67 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Notice how they all do really close to less than 25% damage.

252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 127-151 (37.3 - 44.4%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gallade: 102-121 (30 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Heliolisk and Abomasnow do a little more, but it's enough to give Gallade a chance to set up and then OHKO.

I also understand that this set is technically less viable than the SD set, but its success in my battling experience further proves that it should be moved up due to its versatility with two different sets. Here are some replays to support my nomination.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-894588972
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-894585164

Just from a cursory glance, the main question I have is why should use this set on Gallade over Scrafty? Scrafty possesses a far more useful ability in Shed Skin and STAB on Knock Off while retaining comparable special bulk. It’s true that Gallade possesses more immediate power and a better speed tier, but given the type of set this is, I would argue that Scrafty’s perks are notably better than Gallade’s.

 

[driftingover]

Lot of stuff going on in the meta right now but my main focus is that Togedemaru is ranked pretty low at just B. Now, I get that it's pretty one-dimensional and a lot of the time ends up U-Turning out anyway, but I personally think it should go up to at least B+. Its typing is pretty unique in NU, especially defensively, and it can be used to check a lot of mons offensively too. It's a nice glue mon mostly thanks to that typing and its high Speed stat, and an Electric immunity is always helpful. I see it all the time and also use it myself on a number of teams, and think that the role compression, momentum and revenge killing that it offers is valuable, especially on the more offensive teams that are getting popular lately. Show the mouse some love!

 

[Funbot28]

Decided to glance over the VR while buildin some teams and I noticed some interesting placements that I wanted to discuss;

A- -> A
Magmortar is one of the deadliest wallbreakers in the tier atm after the latest tier shifts removing some of its biggest checks in AV Slowbro and Diancie, and even though it has risen last VR update I still believe that A- is really underselling its ability to break holes in the majority of defensive cores. Both Fightinium Z and Electrium Z can break through checks such as Incineroar, Druddigon, and Slowking after a bit of chip. Its coverage and ability to shut down the majority of walls via Taunt is nearly unmatched in the tier atm which means it has a ton of flexibility in terms of what mons can actually check it. While the rise of AV Slowking has been noticeable to compensate for the loss of Slowbro and an average Speed tier does mean it is a bit easier to check offensively, I still believe that the impact Magmortar has in teambuilding and the its potency as a wallbreaker in battle is too influential to be in A-.

A- -> A/A+
While not identical to Slowbro, Slowking has somewhat managed to take up the role of its former competition and act as an amazing check to many threatening wallbreakers in the tier rn in Magmortar, Mega Glalie, Delphox, and Sigilyph and the the amount of options it has between which coverage moves it chooses to run is also applaudable as well. Slowking acts as one of the best glues on the majority of teams because of this trait and is why it has skyrocketed in usage ever since the April shifts occurred. While teams may need to find more dedicated Fighting checks when using Slowking as the lack of physical bulk compared to Bro is noticeable, I still feel as a special blanket check it is extremely valuable and deserves an even higher rise just like Magmortar.

B -> B+/A-
Toge has been popping up as another popular Scarfer finally being able to contest the role that many teams usually allot to Passimian. I think it appreciates a metagame where it can help check dangerous threats such as Heliolisk, Vileplume, Comfey, and Vivillon alongside outspeeding opposing Scarf Passi, potentially offering a better a better form of speed control for its own team. It also has a lot of utility in its last slot that I have seen many exploring as of recently, with the most notable examples being utility options such as Toxic, Super Fang, Encore or coverage in Zen Headbutt to break thru Plume. Although it may not have the best bulk that enables it to repeatedly come in on the aforementioned threats, I still feel Toge compresses many roles for the majority of teams and is a threat that should rise due to its increased influence and usage on many teams as of late.

B- -> B
Like Magmortar, Medi also really benefited from the removal of one of its biggest checks in Bro which means it can properly run sets such as Choice Scarf and maybe even Choice Band with less repercussion and spam its STABs which can basically blow through most physical walls left in the tier. While it sometimes needs to compromise with either power or speed when comparing sets like Life Orb or Scarf, I still believe Medi offers enough wallbreaking potential when running either set and can effectively tear through common cores such as Weezing + Toise or Plume + Rhydon + Xatu via its coverage and STABs. Its average speed and bulk will always hold it back someway, but the decline in checks such as Comfey helps it perform its role without fearing being revenge killed as much as before which is really beneficial.

Thats it for now, probs some more stuff in the C rank that may need fixing but not too familiar with those mons yet to form an opinion.

 

[Rabia]

me make more nominations and will give opinion on other nominations

C+ -> B-
Regirock is a nice option as a Stealth Rock setter, and I think it's been passable at filling the void Diancie left from a defensive standpoint, even surpassing it at checking Pokemon like Mega Glalie. While it does lack some stuff Rhydon does have, namely a great offensive presence and an Electric immunity, Regirock is more adept at checking rising threats like Magmortar and Delphox given its superior special bulk and lack of a 4x weakness to Grass. I do also appreciate how you can tech either ability fairly decently; I think Sturdy is overall better for letting Regirock beat Swords Dance Incineroar regardless of its Attack boosts and item (you need Rock Tomb and Speed investment though), but Clear Body can be useful versus stuff like Parting Shot.

If you're wanting to use Regirock, it pairs very well with Dhelmise/Decidueye; defensively, the core Regirock forms with either of these two is really potent. It reliably checks pretty much the entire tier.

A -> A+
I think Rhydon has cemented itself as the best Stealth Rock user in the current metagame largely due to its fantastic offensive presence letting it threaten all common forms of entry hazard control for great damage. Although it isn't commonly running as much bulk as it used to, it still manages to check threatening wallbreakers like Braviary and Incineroar very reliably while posing a huge threat to even bulky Pokemon like Vaporeon and Vileplume once set-up. The loss of Diancie has really opened up Rhydon's spot in the metagame as an offensive Stealth Rock setter, and I find myself hard pressed to compare Rhydon to what else is in A.

B- -> C+
Gastrodon is just really awkward to build with or justify over other options; being a solid Heliolisk + Magmortar check is great, although I feel this niche isn't really that useful in practice. You generally can cover these Pokemon fairly easily in building without needing Gastrodon. I never find myself wanting to pass up on Slowking's pivoting or Vaporeon's Heal Bell and Wish support for this Pokemon.

STUFF I SUPPORT:

A- -> A
my nomination from last slate lol..

B- -> B
It's a lot better post-Slowbro because it beats Slowking much more reliably than it did Slowbro (doesn't need Stealth Rock to beat physically defensive variants). It's one of the most terrifying wallbreakers in the tier and can generally manage with revenge killing from Passimian given its typing.

STUFF THAT I DO NOT SUPPORT:

C -> C+/B-
I don't see a niche for this, at least for what the nomination proposed. Scrafty is just better.

B -> higher
I think Togedemaru is largely overrated; its bonus Speed isn't that impactful, and it's sort of depressingly weak even with an Adamant nature. Nuzzle is cool tech, but you have to choose between that and Super Fang 'less you want to be walled from hell until high water by Steelix. I think it's just fine where it is for now; I feel this Pokemon relies so damn much on prediction to end up doing much that it ends up just being a U-turn bot.

 

[Hootie]

Just some thoughts I've had on a few Pokemon that should be shifted around to better reflect the current metagame.

S -> Top of A+

Normally I'm a huge proponent of Heliolisk, but lately it has been struggling with some recent trends that make it harder to use now than it was in past metas, namely the rise of Dhelmise and Vileplume, which coupled with a Ground type, make Choice Specs pretty difficult to use. I don't really think other sets are nearly as viable and have issues of their own, with Life Orb being easy to wear down and putting it that much closer into Pursuit range from Sneasel or Aerodactyl and Z sets being incredibly weak after it burns its Z move. It's still an excellent Pokemon and adds a lot of nice qualities to most teams, but it's not quite what I would consider a meta-defining Pokemon nor something you throw onto just any team.

A+ -> Bottom of S

This has been beaten to death at this point and has been something I've been against for a long time, but in the current meta, I would say it's finally justified. The rise of Slowbro and Diancie proved to be a nice boon to boost its viability, with Slowbro's absence making it that much easier to pull off sweeps lategame while the loss of Diancie means Incineroar is more popular than ever, a Pokemon that Passimian has always excelled at keeping in check. Passimian also does a fairly good job checking another new addition in Pangoro, further justifying its use on teams. Despite being fairly one-dimensional, its still a meta defining Pokemon that keeps plenty of common Pokemon in check, nothing does its job nearly as well.

B+ -> High A-

In the current metagame, Choice Band Aerodactyl puts a great amount of work while Pokemon like Sigilyph and Delphox are on rise, both of which Aerodactyl traps fairly comfortably. It's especially useful to deal with Calm Mind variants of Sigilyph which can massively threaten popular balance archetypes (think Vileplume/Blastoise/Steelix). The main reason I prefer it as my go-to on balance teams is the defensive utility it has over Sneasel; its typing comes in handy a lot more often and makes it more reliable at trapping specific targets whereas Sneasel, for example, struggles to switch into the targets it wants to trap. Unnerve is very nice boon to bypass any potential Colbur berry users as well, giving it some consistency in trapping what's necessary. The Speed tier is also a pretty big deal, with the only things faster that threaten it being Passimian and Togedemaru, furthering its usefulness on balance.

B+ -> Mid A-

Blastoise right now is what I consider the best form of hazard control we have in the tier. As a comparison to one of the more common forms of removal, Xatu struggles keeping Stealth Rock off the field from Rhydon and Palossand while also outright being a losing matchup versus Druddigon. Blastoise meanwhile has very little issue in switching into the likes of Steelix, Rhydon, Palossand, and Durddigon, easily Rapid Spinning vs them and making it incredibly consistent at doing its job. It also has great synergy on Spike stacking teams, pairing nicely with Garbodor in particular. The only thing that keeps it from being rising any higher is primarily the rise of Vileplume and Dhelmise.

There are many other Pokemon that should have their placement adjusted, but these were the main nominations I wanted to cover.

 

[JdRDMS]

I'm just getting back into NU, and I don't have much to say on this nom (and I'm bad at writing noms too lol), but I do feel that this is warranted.

Decidueye: B+ -> Higher in B+/A- (anywhere works)
Decidueye can be a terrifying set-up sweeper. Yeah, it can't take physical attacks very well, but its special bulk isn't awful. At +2, Decidueye can OHKO so many things, especially with rocks. 626 Attack is incredibly high, Spirit Shackle and Leaf Blade are very strong, and a Z-Move on top, good lord. I get that its physical bulk and speed aren't the best, but I feel its sheer power makes up for it. It can take a Knock Off from Passimian, and then OHKO it after rocks. Blastoise and Regirock getting better are also good for it, because, well, obviously.
Again, I haven't played NU in awhile, and I'm not great at writing noms, so I appreciate constructive criticism.

Other noms that I agree with but don't have much else to say on:
`

A+ -> S (though only to the bottom, like Hootie said)

B+ -> A-

A -> A+

 

[Punchshroom]

Decidueye: B+ -> Higher in B+/A- (anywhere works)
Decidueye can be a terrifying set-up sweeper. Yeah, it can't take physical attacks very well, but its special bulk isn't awful. At +2, Decidueye can OHKO so many things, especially with rocks. 626 Attack is incredibly high, Spirit Shackle and Leaf Blade are very strong, and a Z-Move on top, good lord. I get that its physical bulk and speed aren't the best, but I feel its sheer power makes up for it. It can take a Knock Off from Passimian, and then OHKO it after rocks. Blastoise and Regirock getting better are also good for it, because, well, obviously.
Again, I haven't played NU in awhile, and I'm not great at writing noms, so I appreciate constructive criticism.

Setup variants of Decidueye have long since fallen out of favor. In fact, boosting Grass-types are generally unpopular at the moment given how many defensive responses and offensive checks they have; probably the most relevant boosting Grass-types in the meta atm are Sceptile, Mega Abomasnow, and Torterra, and those aren't even their primary sets for the most part.

Even discounting the fundamental flaws of boosting Grass-types, you're vastly overrating Decidueye's power here; its power only shines from its Z-Move or when it's hitting something super effectively, but otherwise physical Decidueye is notoriously weak, especially when unboosted (+0 Leaf Blade almost never OHKOes offensive Rhydon), and thus tends to be very reliant on setup or its Z-Move for burst damage (or to even break down walls after +2). This issue becomes especially apparent when most of the faster mons in the tier can revenge kill/force out Decidueye quite easily due to its weak Defense and/or its numerous weaknesses (ex: if Passimian doesn't OHKO Decidueye with Knock, it just U-turns to put it in range), meaning Decidueye is largely unable to utilize SD against faster builds. That said, even against slower, bulkier builds, the presence of Incineroar and Golbat kind of shut down Decidueye hard, plus the risk of being statused by bulky Waters only hinders Decidueye's setup/wallbreaking chances even more, so it's not even particularly effective there. To put it into perspective, Choice Band Dhelmise is a much better corebreaker than SD Decidueye despite the latter's ability to switch moves, and I can even think of other potential Swords Dance Grass-types that can rival Decidueye, such as Sawsbuck, Leafeon, Shiftry, even the aforementioned Dhelmise.

Decidueye's boosting days are behind it, but currently its main value is derived from its capability as a Defogger with reliable recovery & U-turn as well as threatening common Stealth Rockers. Defensive (Colbur) Defog Decidueye plays kinda like a Rapid Spin Dhelmise which focuses more on longevity and pivoting, and can consistently check the few offensive mons that don't immediately kill it, such as Heliolisk, Sceptile, and Passimian. Offensive Defog Decidueye on the other hand uses Leaf Storm to blast away Stealth Rockers (as well as bulky Waters while it's at it) while maintaining longevity and pivoting ability. Its qualities as a Defogger, both offensive and defensive, are just about good enough to give it the rank it's currently at, but I believe Swords Dance variants do little to nothing to improve its standing, especially given the competition with not just SD Grass-types, but boosting/wallbreaking Pokemon in general.

 

[quziel]

Sawk: UR => C+

This pokemon has been popping up more and more in NUPL, boasting a very convenient base 85 speed tier, amazing coverage between CC, Knock Off, EQ, Ice Punch, and Zen Headbutt, and two great abilities in Sturdy and Mold Breaker. While Weezing isn't as common as it once was, being able to click EQ and essentially go unpunished in those matchups is huge utility, as is the ability to OHKO Steelix with CC (25% of the time). Sturdy also gives Sawk huge utility for a team, making it a one time check to essentially any threat (barring Klinklang) provided your hazard control is good enough, and gives it a ton of room if led with. As for current meta trends that make Sawk better, Slowbro has left, making the CB set far easier to run, and being a strong fighting type with Ice Punch means you can easily barrel through Vileplume (252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Vileplume: 272-322 (76.8 - 90.9%)). The current "frailty" of Fighting resists, and the heavy importance of the base 80 speed tier (see knocked pass) both make Sawk an excellent pick in the current meta. Finally, the Z-move set (generally ice-z bulk up) can just straight up win vs a lot of fatter builds thanks to Mold Breaker and Sawk's sheer power. This pokemon was used to great effect in my match vs Hootie (Hootie used it), and in Xiri vs Osh's match, the replays of which are linked below.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7nu-440224
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-912419995

Edit: My memory of the ranks were off, changing it from B- to C+

 

[Realistic Waters]

Oricorio-Pom-Pom ---> C rank or above please

owo what's this cute little bird, I'd love to see him ranked! Oricorio Pom Pom sets himself apart from the other birds with a handy flying resist while not being weak to knock off so it has an easier time switching in and beating fighting types especially Passimian, Scrafty and Pangoro which I know a lot of balance teams struggle with. The Dancer ability isn't super useful but it means Vivillon will think twice about clicking Quiver Dance again hehe.

What set would you use? owo ez, i got you covered

Cheerleader (Oricorio-Pom-Pom) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Dancer
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Calm Mind
- Taunt / Substitute

A nice stallbreaker / win condition. Your cute little bird will keep fighting types and birds in check despite its slightly below average defense and once there team have been weakened, it's your time to attempt a sweep. Boost up a few calms minds and taunt anything that tries to click toxic (sub is a decent replacement though) z hurricane hits pretty hard despite no special investment after a few boosts or you can use it in a pinch and not have to worry about the accuracy.

A nice niche about Pom Pom is it's one of the few things that aren't 2HKO'd by CB Pangoro Knock off but has recovery too while pressuring and out speeding it with hurricane. You could use a little speed but I like bulk lol.

252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Oricorio-Pom-Pom: 153-180 (43.3 - 50.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO

Some replays...

I did a bunch of ladder games w/ pom pom but i'll edit in more because i didn't think to save replays :l

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-912956404 Pom Pom 6-0's from turn 1
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-912976978 Mid game sweep nothing could stop pom pom after that

Please show some love for Pom Pom !!

I honestly feel it deserves to be ranked, especially if Regirock, Scyther and Granbull are ranked for some reason. (really bad mons with no niche, please unrank, no one uses them as evident in usage stats and overall performance)

 

[Punchshroom]

Sawk: UR => C+

This pokemon has been popping up more and more in NUPL, boasting a very convenient base 85 speed tier, amazing coverage between CC, Knock Off, EQ, Ice Punch, and Zen Headbutt, and two great abilities in Sturdy and Mold Breaker. While Weezing isn't as common as it once was, being able to click EQ and essentially go unpunished in those matchups is huge utility, as is the ability to OHKO Steelix with CC (25% of the time). Sturdy also gives Sawk huge utility for a team, making it a one time check to essentially any threat (barring Klinklang) provided your hazard control is good enough, and gives it a ton of room if led with. As for current meta trends that make Sawk better, Slowbro has left, making the CB set far easier to run, and being a strong fighting type with Ice Punch means you can easily barrel through Vileplume (252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Vileplume: 272-322 (76.8 - 90.9%)). The current "frailty" of Fighting resists, and the heavy importance of the base 80 speed tier (see knocked pass) both make Sawk an excellent pick in the current meta. Finally, the Z-move set (generally ice-z bulk up) can just straight up win vs a lot of fatter builds thanks to Mold Breaker and Sawk's sheer power. This pokemon was used to great effect in my match vs Hootie (Hootie used it), and in Xiri vs Osh's match, the replays of which are linked below.

Like the Sawk nomination too; Sawk's Speed tier is underrated since it outruns and wallops things like Magmortar, the base 80s, and speedcreeping Golbats. I just have to disagree with Ice Punch on the Bulk Up Z set however; Psychium Z Zen Headbutt lets you do things like OHKOing Weezing after +1, OHKOing SpD Garbo & non-Scarf Passimian at +0, and OHKOing Medicham 7/8 of the time after SR + LO chip, in addition to smashing the Plume and Golbat you're already targeting (heck, +0 Psyche always OHKOes SpD Plume). Even offensive Alolan Eggy dies to +1 Close Combat so idk what Ice Punch is supposed to hit other than Palossand (u don't even OHKO with +1 Subzero) and I guess OHKOing Dhelmise at +0 (not that Dhelmise is even a reliable switch-in to Sawk, since Knock Off after SR or ZHB into +1 Psyche both 2HKO).

 

[etern]

Update time!

Voting Slate

Rises:
Passimian: A+ > S
Blastoise: B+ > A-
Gallade: C > C+
Aerodactyl: B+ > A-
Sawk: UR > C

Drops:
Heliolisk: S > A+
Silvally-Steel: C > D
Gastrodon: B- > C+
Granbull: C > UR
Scyther: C+ > UR

Depending on the result of the Camerupt-Mega suspect, we'll either have an update in two weeks time, or three weeks. Here's the discussion slate for the month:

Dhelmise: A > A+
Pangoro: A- > A
Scrafty: A- > B+
Samurott: C+ > B-
Klinklang: C > D
Sandslash-Alola: C > UR

 

[Realistic Waters]

Slowking A- --> A

A small rise but I really like Slowking :] AV set is neat but I wish people would use the physically defensive set. It's good replacement of Slowbro (just don't expect it to beat LO Medicham). Choice Scarf Passimians U-turn only does on average 33% which means 0 once you switch out. You can stay in on Incineroar with colbur or when possibly holding a z crystal. CM Z and Colbur are both good so you're not always worried about Sneasel.

Ferroseed B- --> C+

Not awful but not great so it fits better in C+, people have said this a million times so I'm not going to ramble on about this. It does a decent job at checking a few things but it's still a bad rocker/spiker when Xatu's usage is high and it's again... passive :( if you need more just scroll through the other pages where people talk about this

Regimeme C+ --> Unranked

Easily the worst pokemon in C+, it does not beat Golbat, Delphox or Braviary, you need significant attack investment and stone edge to beat xatu but then you don't retain any bulk to check much. Z Regirock is a bad meme when Rhydon exists and normal sets are very passive half the mons don't even care when switching in. Go back to the shadow realm.

Sandslash-Alola C --> Unranked

Go unranked? Sure why not. I swear it loses to almost every single pokemon 1 v 1 from S rank to A- , just look down the list... ._. it's passive and doesn't beat any rockers, gg.

Klinklang C --> Stay the same / or higher ?_?

Klinklang can stay where it is. If you can knock off/weaken Steelix or Seismitoad somewhere in the game, it has a good chance at sweeping and tbf, people have looking at others rockers lately like Druddigon and Mega Camel which makes it easier. Z Gear Grind is goat and it still gets many opportunities to set up especially on choice locked Passimians, Heliolisk, Sneasels etc non sleep powder Vileplumes and Golbats so I think it's doing pretty decent rn, maybe it could even go higher? lol

Gastrodon C+ --> Unranked

I don't think being able to switch into helio is a big enough niche for to keep it C+, Torterra has that same thing but has more utility and they're both C+ . I'd argue that even Jellicent is better overall as a water type who sits at E rank. I suppose the sp def set it used but it only walls a small number of targets because most of our special attackers run grass types coverage or just happen to be grass types lol. Hone claws Aero is a thing too so rip >;l despite its recovery advantage I would stick to Toad or vapo as my water / ground type.

Quagsire / Pyukumuku B- --> C+/ C

Medicore mons that really only fit on stall which isn't a good playstyle right now with Mega Camerupt and Pangoro who just pressure teams like that heavily , I'd say Quagsire is a little better overall but they should both go down, B- is really high for them o.o too many easy switch ins to wallbreakers and such. Quag won't even beat BU Scrafty/Malamar without Curse which means to you need drop toxic

 

[Rabia]

it is time we STOP the hatred towards my main man RegiROCK

Regirock is definitely a bad Rhydon at the end of the day for obvious reasons: it doesn't block Volt Switch, it's far more passive, and it's rather limited in what it can actually do as a whole, which makes it generally super easy to play against. It's also somewhat less reliable as a check to Aerodactyl given its lack of a resistance to Rock. But what separates my man Regirock from Rhydon are a few things: better mixed bulk, a lack of a 4x weakness to Grass, and a non-reliance on an item for bulk. Realistic Waters you say that Regirock doesn't beat Delphox when that sort of isn't true; while +1 Bloom Doom fucks Regirock's shit up hard, it isn't impossible to scout for that given its prevalence, and Regirock can stomach a +1 Grass Knot afterwards while safely OHKOing with Stone Edge. I won't comment on your other examples because well, you're not wrong lol.

The biggest thing in favor of Regirock though is definitely the lack of a need to run Eviolite for bulk. While your Leftovers is probably going to be smacked off by Sneasel regardless, you still retain the ability to check what you want to generally fine without it, and it isn't like you can't pair Wish support with this Pokemon with too much difficulty. Pokemon like Incineroar, Mega Glalie, and Aerodactyl all don't have the best of times with breaking through my home slice Regirock just given its sheer bulk that is hard to compromise compared to Rhydon; we can even look at its lack of a Ground typing as beneficial in a way seeing as how it lets Regirock better check Ice-types like a Mega Glalie or a Sneasel. I can see an argument for it being the worst Pokemon in C+ (I disagree, but I can see where you're coming from nevertheless), but it certainly is better than most of the trash that currently resides in C.

this post is sponsored by regirock gang

 

[driftingover]

Dhelmise: A > A+: Agree
Not a lot of 'mons are more splashable than Dhelmise right now. I recently cleared out the teams I don't use on my builder, and I was left with 7 teams, 5 of which have Dhelmise on them. Truth is it just has so much utility to offer; between Rapid Spin, solid offensive coverage, and the ability to check some threatening mons (Heliolisk!), it's the classic bulky offensive mon. Scald burns and being slow hurt, but they don't stop Dhelmise from being a solid and versatile threat, capable of running Colbur / Lefties + Synthesis, Assault Vest, or Choice Band.

Pangoro: A- > A: Disagree
Clearly a premier wallbreaker in this meta, but I hesitate to bump it above A-. Mostly, it just has a really hard time switching in, so you have to rely on momentum moves to bring it in a lot. This can become predictable. It's also decently easy to check offensively, owing to a bad defensive typing and pretty low speed tier. Pretty solid mon but harder to fit on teams due to its lack of utility, speed, and defensive value. I'd keep it where it is for right now.

Scrafty: A- > B+: Agree
This 'mon has the same bad defensive typing and speed stat as Pangoro, so understandably there's competition between the two of them. Unlike Pangoro, however, Scrafty relies too much on setup to hit hard, and its lack of ways to immediately pressure teams before setting up makes it hard to use effectively. I was a very big booster of Scrafty a few phases ago, but it seems harder and harder to justify putting it on a team that isn't extremely focused around it.

Samurott: C+ > B-: Agree
You might not notice because of NU's relative lack of Water-types, but Water is a pretty solid offensive typing in the tier right now. As probably the only viable Water booster around, Samurott does very well in this meta. With enough speed to get past Incineroar, a really strong Buginium Z to nail defensive checks, and priority in Aqua Jet to muscle past some faster foes, it's actually not that hard to knock out 2-3 'mons with this thing. Being completely shut down by Heliolisk is annoying, as are its difficulties getting past some of its faster checks, but it's a solid setup 'mon in a tier without that many of them. I could see this guy moving up to B eventually if things keep going its way.

 

[Rabia]

ok now that rock solid has been defended, I'm gonna make a large-ass nomination post; this will mainly focus around the A- rank and the C rank stuff.

rises

A -> A+

reason

Rhydon is definitely the best Stealth Rock setter in the tier currently for a multitude of reasons: it's one of the better checks defensively to Incineroar, Aerodactyl, and Magmortar (if you run a bulkier spread), and its offensive presence is super appreciated given it lets Rhydon adequately pressure common spinners. Blastoise running less bulky spreads in favor of speedier ones benefits offensive Rhydon, since it gets BLASTED by Earthquake, and even Dhelmise gets pressured into consistently using Synthesis. +2 Rhydon OHKOing specially defensive Vileplume is also a real great niche right now.

A- -> A

reason

Blastoise is also another Pokemon defining the entry hazard game, although as a remover. It's just really oddly consistent right now and pairs great with Pokemon like Weezing, Garbodor, and even Ferroseed. We've seen some "innovation" lately with Ice Beam getting run to avoid giving completely free switch-ins to Dhelmise, Vileplume, and friends. Blastoise is also simply another Pokemon that benefits from rising stars like Aerodactyl and offensive Incineroar variants (Swords Dance pinch Berry is what I'm thinking of here). Hell, just look at its usage in NUPL to see how dominant this lad has been.

A- -> A

reason

Another man that has been seeing lots of tournament play lately. The Flyinium Z set is really cool for giving Aerodactyl a safe nuke to switch-ins like Slowking and lets it serve as a better check to Fire-types like Incineroar thanks to Roost. Even Choice Band is cool for really heavily pressuring common checks like Steelix and Rhydon with Earthquake and taking advantage of its amazing Speed tier to force out and Pursuit trap frail Pokemon like Heliolisk and Sceptile.

A- -> A+

reason

This Pokemon is actually amazing right now lol. The sheer versatility this Pokemon has between all of its sets - defensive, Assault Vest, Nasty Plot, Z-Block - makes this Pokemon really damn difficult to deal with, and its defensive utility is super appreciated right now given how it checks several premier Pokemon such as Passimian, Aerodactyl, Magmortar, and Rhydon.

B -> B+

reason

He gets used in NUPL = he is good. U-turn Golbat is actually surprisingly cool right now and is real nice paired with say, Grass-type wallbreakers like Sceptile and Alolan Exeggutor, since Golbat draws in so many Pokemon like Rhydon and Steelix that these feast on. It's also just really nice for defensive reasons, checking annoying shit like Passimian, VILEPLUME, and Comfey even if it's less common. Being a Defogger that's weak to Stealth Rock is kind of balls, but pairing it with another form of entry hazard control has definitely proven to be the most effective way to pilot it (and of course just dropping Defog and going like Brave Bird / Roost / filler / filler is good too).

drops

A+ -> lower

reason

Quite literally every entry hazard setter has a way of bypassing Xatu. Xatu is a bad Fighting-type check too, and this issue is only further exacerbated with the drop of Pangoro. Xatu also just folds to most every common wallbreaker in the tier: Aerodactyl, Pangoro, Magmortar, Sneasel, Heliolisk, etc etc etc all just take advantage of Xatu. It's just not as great a form of entry hazard control with Steelix a bit less prominent compared to previous iterations. Ugh, this Pokemon is so weird to rank because the utility of Magic Bounce is so great even if Xatu loses to all the good Stealth Rock setters; I just feel there's much greater risk nowadays to using Xatu compared to some months ago.

A -> A-

reason

A bit overdue, but the rise in bulky Poison-types like Vileplume, Golbat, and Weezing makes wallbreaking really hard for Sceptile, and it's just super prone to being revenge killed by all the fast Pokemon in Aerodactyl, Passimian, and Togedemaru.

A- -> B+

reason

I still really like Braviary, but it's gotten much harder to use recently with the rise in Flying-resistant Pokemon that can revenge kill it fairly effectively, and the rise of Golbat also makes Substitute variants harder to use. Braviary still just wins certain matchups (opponent has no Flying-type check), but with Pokemon like Togedemaru and Aerodactyl getting more and more common, those are much less common. Fightinium Z sets still hold a nice niche as wallbreakers, but they even struggle with getting scouted by shit like Slowking and Weezing.

B -> B-

reason

It's just so hard to successfully sweep with this given the prominence of Choice Scarf Togedemaru; you're outsped at +1 and do absolutely nothing in return. Substitute is also much harder to run now given Aerodactyl existing, so you're pretty much forced to run Energy Ball. It's just not an easy Pokemon to use outside of very offensive teams.

now here are some general drop noms

B -> B-

B- -> C

C -> UR

reason

Jesus Christ stall is horrible. For the last several months or so the tier has both received Pokemon like Pangoro and Dhelmise that give the archetype massive issues and has witnessed the rise of Pokemon like Magmortar that also dick it. Growth Vileplume becoming a thing has also really messed up the viability of super defensive builds. It's just so hard to build consistent stall in the current metagame with all of the specifically anti-stall measures that exist, and so I think it's only logical to drop the main stall proponents down. Mega Audino still has some application on balanced builds, so I was less harsh with it, but Pyukumuku and Quagsire are essentially limited to stall as is Articuno.

C -> UR

reason

I have used Houndoom extensively for the last month or so, and I can safely say it is horrible. It's not strong enough even with a Nasty Plot to really pose much of a threat, and its awkward Speed tier only serves to worsen this problem. Couple that with it being prone to quite literally every revenge killer in the tier given its typing and poor bulk, and you have a pretty underwhelming setup sweeper. Meanwhile, Alolan Sandslash has just really lost its niche with the ban of Vanilluxe and the drop-off of Whimsicott.

and as a general last note, I think we could probably consolidate all of C into just one well, C rank. I think most of our current C is probably at a point where we could just nuke it off the VR with little problem anyhow. my ideal general C looks something like this:

super secret rabia c rank

fwiw these aren't listed in any specific order; at this point the pokemon are so irrelevant in the meta that I find it pointless to try to say which of the shit mons is less shit than the others lol.. i guess id say stuff like mega abomasnow, samurott, regirock, mismagius, and sawk would be at the top, while gastrodon, torterra, hariyama, and masquerain would be closer to the bottom. but again, they're all not so great pokemon, so

obviously there are some pokemon missing here that I didn't include in my noms above, and there are still some there that I'd be open to getting rid of: gastro is sorta bad rn, and webs isnt really a thing, so i dont know if i care to keep masq ranked. the idea here is that we push towards c being less of that "oh look this mon is cool and sort of has a use" and more to a point of just fringe viability that's actually worth considering. like at the end of the day a VR is super subjective no matter how you spin it, but I figure it may as well reflect partly what actually gets used. like as I type this even shit like absol could probably get argued off the VR in my world.. but yea hitmonlee is still shitmonlee; even though it faces no real competition for what it does as a fighter (that curse set), I don't think that's enough of a niche to use it over SD Pangoro / DD or BU Scrafty as a Fighting-type wincon. Klinklang has an extremely minor niche on dual screens I feel as a Comfey check, but I don't really value that a whole lot even with dual screens being as good as it is currently. There are generally just better options for that I feel. Typhlosion is a poop Magmortar / Charizard and only really sees good matchups when the opponent lacks a real Fire-type check alongside Blastoise. As we move towards the end of the generation, I think a smaller VR is more ideal; there are a lot of Pokemon that definitely are usable, but that doesn't really mean they should get ranked imo.

here are some minor closing thoughts on some noms that I could see

ending stuff

Pangoro could probably end up in A; it's really fucking obnoxious to deal with defensively, and Swords Dance functions as both a good wincon and wallbreaker.

Dhelmise in A+ is interesting; the defensive utility this Pokemon provides is great, and it hasn't really folded to any metagame developments (if anything, it benefits a lot still from Sneasel's decreased usage).

Part of me was tempted of just saying swap Blastoise and Vaporeon's positions lol.. Vaporeon definitely faces a lot more competition for the slot of a bulky Water-type nowadays, although it also still just wins games with Toxic Wish bullshit. Not really sure where I want this.

I probably want Scrafty in B+, but I didn't make the full nomination because I'm just not sure about it yet lol. It's one of the most matchup reliant shits in the tier for sure, but I still feel like it has enough consistency to maybe warrant keeping it A-? Mmm.

Should probably move Druddigon up at least within A-; it's great for many reasons, with a few of those being its defensive traits, offensive potential if you go Dragonium Z, and all the fucking utility it provides between Glare, Taunt, Dragon Tail, ... maybe even just throw this into A lmao.

edit: I was just thinking about Ferroseed. It definitely shouldn't drop; if anything, it's due for a rise given how it has a positive matchup against the most common forms of entry hazard control currently (Blastoise, Dhelmise, Golbat come to mind). Defensively it's also pretty cool given it is a fine Heliolisk check. Eh.

I probably have some feelings about other Pokemon on the VR too, but I'm too tired to keep typing lol..

 

[Yoshi]

-> A+ (Agree)
Dhelmise is an extremely powerful Pokemon right now. Most people probably focus on Choice Band sets but I've had a lot of fun playing with bulkier Rapid Spin variants (with Colbur Berry or Assault Vest). It's a super splashable Pokemon to use, and not only does it Rapid Spin itself, it acts as a spin blocker to Blastoise which is becoming ever more common. It also appreciates the increased viability of Toxic Spikes, as it takes advantage of them offensively as well as defensively (in that it only takes away hazards from one side of the field). While Heliolisk is definitely going down in usage, and Pokemon like Sneasel and Delphox are going up, I find that Dhelmise is still very effective in most matches that I've played recently. It also appreciates the decreased Mega Glalie usage (although Sigilyph has proven to be an issue). Lastly, it acts as a check to Slowking, another Pokemon that is becoming much more common in this meta. I think that while there are a few things that have gone not-so-great for Dhelmise in this newer meta, things have been going well for the most part. It still manages to fit on a lot of teams, and especially appreciates the increased viability of entry hazards.

-> A (Disagree)
I was using Pangoro a lot when it first dropped, and I've really not seen a reason to use it since then. Oftentimes it's very hard to fit Pangoro onto teams, and most of the time there are other wall breakers that fit into that slot better. Those are things we already knew, though, and I mention them because there's really nothing that has changed in benefit of Pangoro. I suppose Sneasel is becoming more common which Pangoro is a good check to, but the increased usage in Aerodactyl and Sigilyph is terrible for Pangoro because that's two more Pokemon that can force it out. I suppose it is still just as effective at breaking apart the bulkier teams, but again, that hasn't really been improved upon since Pangoro was initially ranked.

-> Unranked (Disagree)
This is definitely a change I am not in support of for a couple of reasons. Klinklang dropping so low in the first place is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. I could understand it floating around the B- / B range, but C is way too low for it. I think people overestimate how easily Klinklang is walled. Losing Slowbro is HUGE for Klinklang, and while Steelix and Seismitoad exist, Steelix can be weakened down fairly easily if the user isn't careful, and Seismitoad usage has been dropping for a while now (certain above nominations would agree with that statement, even if I myself do not). I just don't see how things have gotten any worse for Klinklang recently. I guess Sigilyph, Aerodactyl, and Pangoro act as checks to Klinklang when it is unboosted, but that doesn't really make it any harder for Klinklang to sweep. Overall, Klinklang should move higher if anything, to the B- / B range.

-> A
I'm definitely going to agree with Rabia on this one. This Pokemon got overlooked when Slowbro was in the tier, and now that Slowbro is gone, this Pokemon has gotten a lot of time to shine. Z-Variants are extremely threatening whether it be Rockium or Flyinium, and pretty much obliterates anything that comes in on it (including the bulky waters like Slowking and Blastoise). As Rabia also mentioned, it can use Roost on these sets, which makes it a hundred times better at checking Fire-types like Incineroar and Delphox. If you're running Choice Band, there are certain spreads you can run that can allow you to live hits like say Choice Band Sneasel's Knock Off, or perhaps avoid a 2HKO from Whimsicott's Moonblast (on both sets). While those two things have always existed for Aerodactyl, I think they're important to note because a lot of people overlook sacrificing some Speed on Aerodactyl in exchange for bulk to live certain hits.

 

[Jisoo]

Been turning this one over in my head for a bit, but I believe Silvally-Fairy should have a spot somewhere in the C-ranks.

It's one of the only surefire answers to the Fighting-type Pokemon that have taken over the meta by storm lately. Checking Pangoro and Scrafty can get a little dicey for many teams because Knock Off is such an easily spammable move that cripples would-be counters like Golbat and Vileplume. Once Knocked off, these Pokemon are easily pressured by sets like Z-ZHB Scrafty and are barely even able to switch into Pangoro again (if they click Ice Punch and hazards are up, you're done)

Silvally-F doesn't really have this problem because it takes minimal Knock Off damage and with Wish support can survive throughout the match to keep the Fighters at bay. On top of this, you have your standard Silvally utility in Parting Shot / Defog etc which are really valuable tools in today's meta.

The counterargument to Silv-F is that Poison-types find themselves on many of the common builds we see having success, but this shouldn't outweigh the fact that Scrafty and Pangoro are so hard to consistently check throughout a game. Overall, it's a niche mon that is not without flaws and is a capable of acting as the main Fighting resist for teams .

A cool replay from recent that demonstrates its niche nicely:
NU Majors - Jrdn vs. 0NI - Silv-F made 0NI's Scrafty a non-issue, which left 0NI very little room to make headway in the battle with their main wincon being shut down.

 

[Finchinator]

Removing Vileplume.

 

[AnonymousBottleOfSprite]

TAKE EVERYTHING I SAY WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, I'M NOT A HUGE NU EXPERT, BUT I KNOW A SOLID BIT ABOUT THE TIER AND JUST WANT TO STATE MY OPINIONS.

STUFF I AGREE WITH:

Oricorio-P UR -> C (or higher)
Although quite a niche mon, Oricorio outperforms every mon in C/C+ by quite a lot. It is a great calm mind sweeper which doesn't have to invest into anything except bulk and maybe a little bit of speed to outspeed Incineroar for instance. I find that when I use this mon it almost always punches holes into teams and the few Pokemon that might be able to live a Hurricane with a boost die to its Z-Move, but of course that comes with the risk of your opponent reading your Z-Move. It's not a splashable mon, but if you make a team around it this mon is surprisingly great. It can check mons like Pangoro, Incineroar, and much more, and basically wins against everything if you find a chance to set up on your opponent. It can also OHKO an Incineroar after 1 Spike or Stealth Rock which is great, as Incineroar is one of the best Pokemon in the tier, alongside Passimian, which Oricorio also threatens.

Blastoise A- -> A
Blastoise is quite the opposite of Oricorio, as it is incredibly splashable on many teams. It provides the role of hazard remover with Rapid Spin, a move even more valuable than Defog, and along with Dhelmise, is the only viable user of such a move. It is also a big plus that it has a good typing, has a great matchup with about 90% of hazard setters, and can take hits and survive for a while.

STUFF I DISAGREE WITH:

Regirock C+ -> B- (Can we UR this meme please?)
Do I have to talk about this mon? It will make my brain hurt... to put it simply, use Rhydon, literally that's it. There is no point in using the terrible mon.

Ferroseed B- -> C+ (I think Ferroseed should actually be B.)
Seems I got a hot take here! Ferroseed is an extremely bulky hazard setter that has a great matchup versus practically every hazard remover, bar Xatu. The thing about Xatu though is that it's not that hard for your team to deal with, especially if you have Pursuit users. Xatu is a downside to this mon but I think the fact that it can live almost anything that isn't a fire type move is pretty incredible. Ferroseed is surprisingly useful at chipping down mons with Leech Seed and Gyro Ball, as Gyro Ball typically has 150BP. It does have some competition with other Stealth Rock setters similar to Regirock but the difference is that it has a role that it can perform well! It also is way better than all of the weird passive stall mons in B-.

 

[Davon]

Garbodor -> A+
Toxic spikes are really good with Vileplume gone. There’s no other good mons that absorb tspikes, so you are kinda limited to using your own garbodor to absorb them + spinner; or golbat, rotom, or Xatu. Dhelmise and blastoise get worn down fast when they aren’t ran with garbodor.

I foresee mons like scrafty, sigilyph, duosion, slowking with rest, braviary, and any mon that can avoid tspikes to be used more as counter-play to Garbodor. Also wish mons like delphox and vaporeon make great partners with garbodor so they’ll get used more. Tspikes is a very potent archetype right now and should be prepared for.

 

[rhydonphilip]

Been a while since I posted here. The following pokemon have cetainly been more splashable and founding to the current meta;

Garbodor, as mentioned by Davon it cetainly has claimed it's spot at the top with reliable spikes, t-spikes, a cute fighting check and the ability to take on Sceptile and the likings. -> A

Steelix, as much as I would have wanted it to be rhydon certainly gained from current meta in simple splashability. It provides a Comfey check, Heliolisk check, immune to an increase of t-spikes all be it pretty unable to deal with weezing. Further it advantages of the increase in Aerodactyl and Sneasel. -> A+

Druddigon, this one is long overdue for just spD Druddigon but it gained more quality with the offensive set. Both are a more diverse and compressed fire answere and reliable rocker. The offensive dragonium z set provides a nice threat to all that isn't Steelix and would go for the trade in rocks or some ok damage to it. The blank spD wall can be used to avoid calm mind set up, check fire types in Magmortar/Delphox, deal with Sceptile, etc. Being able to avoid dangerous set up, wittle the opposing team steadily with dragon tail and put down stealth rocks regardless of Xatu is valuable and has been for a month. It's cetainly not without it's flaws lacking recovery, giving equally as much opportunity to opposing rockers in Steelix and Rhydon (and other Druddigon, especially offensive Druddigon) but for sure A mid worthy.

Glalie-Mega, weezing sucks. Increase in weezing has a disastrous effect on this mon in actual play. Previously it had to wittle the rocker Lix or Rhydon, the Passimian and now people are consistently running Weezings on top of these staples. Wittling it's limited HP with Rocky Helmet, threatning t-spikes (often being paired without a t-spike absorber, only xatu to bounce them back), or, just burning it if it runs Will-O-Wisp. Increase in offensive checks like Delphox and CB Aerodactyl does not help it either. Drop to A-

Other worth debating topics:
Heliolisk, in theory better. I have not noticed any difference now vileplume is gone despite the fact the spD set was one of the few counters it had.

I assume some might post about Comfey being better. I have been trying HP psychic for a while, even before vileplume suspect and now vileplume is gone, I do agree that move option got better but comfey itself didn't improve to me. Even outside of t-spikes it didn't gain a better match up, which is everything that defines how well it will do. The increase of garbodor and weezing is notable and yes, they lack recovery, but so does comfey and playing a game 5-6 for the poison to be taken down, the possible Steelix, the possible bulky Incineroar, the Dhelmise that could consider revenge killing you for some HP trade etc. I would not agree to the idea of it having gained anything from Vileplume leaving.

 

[etern]

Update time! Voting on everything since the last slate with some extra people on board to help out. We'll have our usual major revamp after the tier shift at the end of this month, so this will be the final update until then.

Slate

Rises
Slowking: A- > A+
Pangoro: A- > A
Samurott: C+ > B-
Rhydon: A > A+
Blastoise: A- > A
Aerodactyl: A- > A
Golbat: B > B+
Garbodor: B+ > A
Weezing: A- > A

Drops
Sandslash-A: C > UR
Klinklang: C > D
Gastrodon: C+ > C
Quagsire: B- > C+
Pyukumuku: B- > C+
Braviary: A- > B+
Audino-Mega: B > B-
Articuno: C > UR
Houndoom: C > UR
Ferroseed: B- > C+

Here's the discussion slate for the month, feel free to discuss your own nominations too. Also as a disclaimer, we will not be accepting any nominations for Pokemon that are not currently ranked, as the point of this thread is to showcase Pokemon that are at a certain standard of viability in the tier. If a Pokemon that isn't ranked reaches a point where it is justifiable to be added to the VR, it will be added to a discussion slate by myself or someone else on the VR team. Feel free to discuss niche picks in the metagame in the NU Niche Archive thread. Furthermore, if a Pokemon was nominated last slate, and rejected for a rise or drop, please do not nominate them again, this is so we can avoid circular discussion.

Discussion Slate:
Heliolisk: A+ > S
Glalie-Mega: A > A- / B+
Exeggutor-Alola: A > A-
Druddigon: A- > A
Clawitzer: D > C / C+
Hariyama: C+ > D
Hitmonlee: C > D
Piloswine: B > B-