Resource USUM NU Viability Rankings (Old)

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Rabia

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GP & NU Leader
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Silvally-Steel B -> B+ (want to see it higher but not quite sure if it's A tier yet)

This is more of a nomination on the basis of me believing it's underrated; Steelvally checks prominent threats in the current meta like Sneasel, Whimsicott, no EQ Venusaur variants, and Vanilluxe really well, along with providing obviously strong utility with Defog and Parting Shot. Recent meta trends really haven't proven to be harming Steelvally in any significant way (Incineroar being top tier, more Hariyama, etc etc), furthering my belief that Steelvally is simply underappreciated on the VR and deserves a rise.
 
Usually I write big nominations but today I'm only having 2:

Scrafty: B --> A-

So scrafty is sitting at B right now, and I understand its speed tier is downright laughable, but its defenses are nice enough I would argue it deserves at least B+ but I'm gonna take it a step further and say A-. First, let me point this out: the dragon dance set is garbage. Ok, maybe not garbage, but I wouldn't build around it. Scrafty's speed is too slow for a single DD to make enough of a difference and if you invest full speed and attack, you miss out on survivability bulk. If you invest in HP and attack, you can't outspeed anyone and sweep, if you go for speed and bulk, you can't really ko anyone. So what set am I talking about then?

Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Rest

This one. Lets start with why its good: It can't really get status'ed because of Shed Skin, it beats a majority of the tier, has really reliable recovery in STAB drain punch, a nice utility in Knock Off, unreliable recovery in rest (but like, it works more often then not), and bulk up makes it absolutely vicious. Now then, doesn't it lose to a majority of commonly used pokemon? Well... Not really, as long as it gets one turn to set up (and there are plenty of pokemon that scrafty comes in on thanks to its bulk)

252 Atk Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 288-338 (86.2 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hitmonlee: 259-306 (107.4 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Passimian Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 218-260 (65.2 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Passimian: 256-303 (74.8 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scrafty: 76-91 (22.7 - 27.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Scrafty Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 186-218 (47.2 - 55.3%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

(I don't even need to include a slowking attack calc)
+1 252+ Atk Scrafty Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 488-576 (124.1 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scrafty: 156-184 (46.7 - 55%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scrafty: 232-274 (69.4 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 240-284 (84.8 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(This ignores DP recovery)

252 Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 108-127 (32.3 - 38%) -- 1.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Incineroar Drain Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 90-106 (26.9 - 31.7%) -- 32.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, Scrafty is both an offensive and defensive monster. The fact that it gets knock off can also cripple a team when it uses choice items for extra speed/damage, lefties for passive recovery, and it pops colbur vs. mons that would typically feel confident staying in to set up rocks (palosand) or have regenerator to back out on later (slowbro). I understand that there are a lot of situations where scrafty's offensive prowess is overshadowed, but its survivability is downright dirty. Its speed tier and inability to get status'ed is invaluable in a meta that prizes a balanced metagame over a stall or hyper offensive on.


Rotom-F (Frostom) Unranked --> C/C-

Rotom Frost is fun and interesting. Its greatest strength is that its typing is really good offensively. Combine that with pretty decent defensive bulk and you've got yourself a strong mon. Rotom F gets access to defog and blizzard which beat a lot of NU's rockers (which is important) and volt switch, a momentum grabbing STAB attack. Is blizzard not doing enough for you? Well then you get Icium Z -- Subzero Slammer, which obliterates lots of fun stuff. It doesn't have very reliable recovery in pain split, but it should suffice given Rotom F's speed tier being above average. The set I've been using is this one however changes can obviously be made:

Rotom-Frost @ Icium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp /Defog
- Pain Split

Lastly, I provided a single replay in which the dominance of Scrafty and tankiness of Frostom is displayed pretty well. If and when I get more, I'll happily share.

(Rotom-F post partially inspired by user bestytesty)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-725776362
 
ok so dont you dare drop these



I dont know but this is straight up one of the most solid medicham counter rn and idt there's any actual good reason for it to drop. A simple SR/Knock Off/ Yawn/ Imprison | Toxic | Heal Bell etc. set is already very good since it does its job both as a rocker and a physical blanket check as well. It looks extremely passive but it has enough tools to ward off defoggers and set up sweepers with yawn or toxic especially yawn because it forces a lot of awkward situations with your opponent which. Knock is also a very good move to cripple almost everything that tries to switch in to it especially evio users like type null etc. Sneasel's chance to leave also is a big boon for this mon since it has one less huge problem to worry about, making it a much better mon, not to mention it's fat enough to absorbing knocks especially when running zbell or colbur, and with sneasel gone zbell and lefties would be much better.



Idt this mon deserves to be UR'd, even if i only used this a lot before USUM came. I also don't think much changed then for abomasnow. Mixed AoA sets with something like Blizzard/Giga/Shard/Eq | Focus blast makes it rly annoying to deal with especially for fat balances without a mon like maud and cryogonal, plus a non mega'd maud dislike taking strong blizzards and cryogonal isn't as common as before. Silvally steel also doesnt like taking eqs because it almost always gets 2hkoed because of the additional hail damage. Ice shard on the other end lets it do reasonable amount of damage to the likes of sceptile and vivi and could come handy in a lot of situations. With Venusaur and Blastoise cores rising, a standard FGW core destroyer in abomasnow surely deserves some spot in this VR still.

these things too:



I always liked using qwilfish and i think it's still solid of a mon. It's a really steady spiker since taunt lets it shut down every defogger because of taunt. It's also a good check to sd incin because intim helps a lot and you could scald / waterfall back because you're actually fast, although only waterfall lets you solidly 2hko it while they can't utterly KO you back if they're not incinium. The only issue with qwilfish is it's one of those poison types that doesnt resist grass which is actually hurting it. Although it's the case for qwilfish, i think it has enough redeeming qualities to stay where it is rn.
 
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Abejas

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Ok I dont usually make posts in the vr thread but I decided to see what ranks the mons are and I disagree with some.

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B->B- maybe lower.
This mon has really fallen from grace since emboar left. Altaria is a defogger that is weak to rocks and loses to most rockers, sp def lix beats it, rhydon annihilates it, drudd can beat it, piloswine destroys it, etc. It also loses to the most prevalent spiker in nu, that being garbodor. Not only this, altaria also is really passive and can give free switch ins to mons you never want to let in, these being vanilluxe incineroar sigilyph (tho this one is quite rare). It can also become set up folder for some mons these being scrafty, incineroar, omastar, aromatisse and even toxicroak in some occasions. Overall this mon cant do what its supposed to do (that being a reliable defogger), is really passive and a lot of mons can take advantage of that, and cant really beat what its supposed to check (loses to hariyama, sceptile can 2hko it, loses to calm mind delphox, loses to medicham, loses to sp def venusaur and can even lose to z-celeb sets, etc.)
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B -> B+/A-
Scrafty is a really underated and powerful mon in this metagame just like Venomben said but I have to disagree with him on something, dragon dance sets are really threatning and can actually break through a lot of offensive and defensive teams ( even stall teams struggle to deal with it) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-722261913 here is a nice example of dd scrafty putting in work. Sadly its forced to run jolly for it to outspeed base 110 after one dragon dance, but its still pretty great. It still has a lot of oppurtunities to set up and it can also whittle the fairies types with HJK, whimsicott takes a solid 40 and aroma takes 30ish.
Bulk up sets are also great, being able to set up on a great portion of the metagame and destroy most teams that are not prepared for it. It has a great typing and also great stabs in knock off and drain punch. Knock off being the broken move it is gives scrafty a easier time to set up since you can remove items and drain punch gives scrafty passive recovery. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-678610340 here is a nice replay of bulk up scrafty putting in work.
 
Ok I dont usually make posts in the vr thread but I decided to see what ranks the mons are and I disagree with some.

View attachment 109890B->B- maybe lower.
This mon has really fallen from grace since emboar left. Altaria is a defogger that is weak to rocks and loses to most rockers, sp def lix beats it, rhydon annihilates it, drudd can beat it, piloswine destroys it, etc. It also loses to the most prevalent spiker in nu, that being garbodor. Not only this, altaria also is really passive and can give free switch ins to mons you never want to let in, these being vanilluxe incineroar sigilyph (tho this one is quite rare). It can also become set up folder for some mons these being scrafty, incineroar, omastar, aromatisse and even toxicroak in some occasions. Overall this mon cant do what its supposed to do (that being a reliable defogger), is really passive and a lot of mons can take advantage of that, and cant really beat what its supposed to check (loses to hariyama, sceptile can 2hko it, loses to calm mind delphox, loses to medicham, loses to sp def venusaur and can even lose to z-celeb sets, etc.)
Gonna have to disagree with your Altaria nomination. Firstly, let's assume that you're using the standard set, Altaria doesn't lose to most rockers; "sp def lix" or standard lix still goes down, all you have to do is switch out once (natural cure) when toxic and heavy slam start doing over 50 and Steelix won't like repeated flamethrowers (if they don't have toxic then that's even better), Rhydon loses without Swords Dance since you can roost on Stone Edge/Rock Blast, Drudd can be annoying but you can still switch in if Drudd chooses to set Rocks up and Dragon tail only does 39% on the highest roll. (which means you still defog and toxic!)

And when does Altaria lose to Garbodor? Standard Garbodor only does 30% on average and even if you factor in a poison, it's still not going to beat Altaria since you can roost off any damage and clear hazards in an instant.

0 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 96-114 (27.1 - 32.2%) -- 47.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

But I will agree that this altaria set is quite passive and that's always going to be a problem but between flamethrower and toxic, it's able annoy targets for when you need to switch out after. (Incineroar and Vanilluxe are not free switch ins since both dislike both said moves). Further into your post you talk about how it can't check certain things but it beats Hariyama? But if you're using Altaria to "check Sceptile, sp def Venu or any Venu and Delphox" you're gonna have a bad time because it was never meant to function like that.

And I figure you should know that Altaria doesn't just have one set. :]
View attachment 109890
Altaria @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Defog

This cute user set breaks any meaning of passive but works nicely as an offensive defogger and for a nice lure. It puts instant pressure on practically every rocker (other than Clef) since they aren't going to enjoy switching in and while this sets focuses more on offense, it can still retain its utility. Overall it doesn't deserve to be ranked any lower because it can still defog well enough in this meta and let's not forget that Altaria is a great status sponge for things like Steelix, Slowbro, Silvally-Steel, Vaporeon, or any other relatively passive mon
 

Abejas

Yo where Ken at
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Gonna have to disagree with your Altaria nomination. Firstly, let's assume that you're using the standard set, Altaria doesn't lose to most rockers; "sp def lix" or standard lix still goes down, all you have to do is switch out once (natural cure) when toxic and heavy slam start doing over 50 and Steelix won't like repeated flamethrowers (if they don't have toxic then that's even better), Rhydon loses without Swords Dance since you can roost on Stone Edge/Rock Blast, Drudd can be annoying but you can still switch in if Drudd chooses to set Rocks up and Dragon tail only does 39% on the highest roll. (which means you still defog and toxic!)

And when does Altaria lose to Garbodor? Standard Garbodor only does 30% on average and even if you factor in a poison, it's still not going to beat Altaria since you can roost off any damage and clear hazards in an instant.

0 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 96-114 (27.1 - 32.2%) -- 47.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

But I will agree that this altaria set is quite passive and that's always going to be a problem but between flamethrower and toxic, it's able annoy targets for when you need to switch out after. (Incineroar and Vanilluxe are not free switch ins since both dislike both said moves). Further into your post you talk about how it can't check certain things but it beats Hariyama? But if you're using Altaria to "check Sceptile, sp def Venu or any Venu and Delphox" you're gonna have a bad time because it was never meant to function like that.

And I figure you should know that Altaria doesn't just have one set. :]
View attachment 109890
Altaria @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Defog

This cute user set breaks any meaning of passive but works nicely as an offensive defogger and for a nice lure. It puts instant pressure on practically every rocker (other than Clef) since they aren't going to enjoy switching in and while this sets focuses more on offense, it can still retain its utility. Overall it doesn't deserve to be ranked any lower because it can still defog well enough in this meta and let's not forget that Altaria is a great status sponge for things like Steelix, Slowbro, Silvally-Steel, Vaporeon, or any other relatively passive mon
Hey waters, I might have explained the steelix set not the best way I wanted to. The most common steelix set at the moment is curse, since its able to pressure xatu easier and can almost always get rocks up. Altaria loses to this set 1v1 since gyro ball at +1 does a solid 50ish% if its even running max defense (which it should not since then heliolisk and company become a mayor issue) and flamethrower cant 2hko steelix, so you are forced to choose either to get rid of the hazards and die or killing the lix before it kills you. Every rhydon runs swords dance since you dont really need megahorn in this meta, druddigon can also run dragon claw over tail.
Also I was having in consideration offensive garbodor, which is also quite common and can pressure altaria a lot if it manages to hit. I feel that altaria is just to passive in this metagame, is really easy to pressure out and doesn't offer much when you are teambuilding. I haven't used the offensive altaria set but it looks cool and I will try it out soon but altaria still deserves to drop.

+1 252+ Atk Steelix Gyro Ball (116 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Altaria: 181-214 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Altaria Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Steelix: 136-162 (38.5 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Poison Barb Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Altaria: 147-174 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Altaria Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 57-68 (18.9 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
 
a few nominations i want to make

(Incineroar) A --> A+

I think Incineroar deserves a higher rank than A. Imo Incineroar is one of the best mons in the meta rn I dont really like the av set, but i love the sd z-move set. there are very little checks to it (drudd, guzzlord, yama, scrafty) and most of them get chipped very easily. I feel like this mon has no really bad matchups due to its great defensive utility and offensive firepower and it beats most of the good mons rn 1v1. Also I think the 50% berry support set is really good.

(Silvally-Steel) B --> B+

Great pick for BO and Balance as it is a solid defogger, really good pivot and checks some of the scariest mons in the metagame (ice cream, sneasel, venu, whimsi). I just think this mon gets you a great amount of utility in one teamslot but the fact that it gets chipped very easiliy lets it fit on rather offensive teams.

(Blastoise) B- --> B

I think very few people will agree with this nom bc it sucks that blastoise gets abused by some really scary mons (venu, croaker, heliolisk, whimsi) but it wins against every relevant rocker in the tier which makes it a great fit on teams which need a reliable hazard control. I think its a mon which can be really good on the right team.

(Golbat) B- --> B/B+

Im really sold on this mon in the current metagame. It can be a kind of fishy defogger sometimes but this mon is super fat and it hardcounters venu and croaker. Also it has a great damage output with bb and there are very few offensive mons which like to switch into golbat. Also 176+ speed is a must imo.

(Sceptile) A- --> B+

I dont think sceptile is bad but I think there are better offensive grass types rn. venu is arguably a top3 mon and there are very few reasons to use sceptile over venu and if you need the speed whimsi is often times the better fit.

(Sigilyph) A- --> B+/B

This mon does not like the current metatrends. Sneasel traps it very easily, many people are using incineroar rn and ive seen many scarf dooms lately. I dont really like sigilyphs bulk, i dont really like its speed tier and honestly i think sigi is one of this mons which can look threatening in the builder but in real battles its kinda meh.

(Vileplume) B- --> C/?

I dont get why you would play vileplume. i think venu is absolutly nuts and i think there is no considerable reason why you would use vileplume when you can use venu. Strength sap sucks and imo aromatheraphy is meh on vileplume and no reason why its b-
 
Cool post but a few points I really disagree with.
(Sceptile) A- --> B+

I dont think sceptile is bad but I think there are better offensive grass types rn. venu is arguably a top3 mon and there are very few reasons to use sceptile over venu and if you need the speed whimsi is often times the better fit.
I think you're really underselling this mon. Its sitting in an amazing speed tier and has the ability to break past Venu counters like Vally Steel which makes it a nice choice for things like grass spam. HP Fire has been a cute choice I've been using as it 2hkos offensive Venu as well as nails Ferroseed who has been gaining hype lately. Not to mention its SD sets too. Its very anti-meta right now which is why it holds its place.


(Sigilyph) A- --> B+/B

This mon does not like the current metatrends. Sneasel traps it very easily, many people are using incineroar rn and ive seen many scarf dooms lately. I dont really like sigilyphs bulk, i dont really like its speed tier and honestly i think sigi is one of this mons which can look threatening in the builder but in real battles its kinda meh.
Incineroar doesn't really annoy it. As long as you're able to keep hazards up, just being able to force Incineroar in and have it take 25% from rocks + 25% more from dgleam, it means Incineroar is only switching in once. And Sneasel doesn't even annoy the sash set as you just stay in and trade 1 for 99% with it, which is always generally worth it for the Sigilyph player.


(Vileplume) B- --> C/?

I dont get why you would play vileplume. i think venu is absolutly nuts and i think there is no considerable reason why you would use vileplume when you can use venu. Strength sap sucks and imo aromatheraphy is meh on vileplume and no reason why its b-
You play Plume because its a better physically defensive Veusaur. Effect Spore and Sap Sipper Strength Sap are two hella good reasons to run the mon, and honestly I think a lot of people are sleeping on Plume. Its under explored in the meta but I think it has a lot of potential and has some very valid reasons to be run.
 
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quziel

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Big Old Poster:
I'm too lazy to attach sprites, but I'll at least bold stuff.
New Drops:

Diancie => A
This is honestly the low end of where I'd but it, but there's no harm in erring on the side of caution. Basically, this thing is absurdly adaptable, being able to viably run a very usable Rocker set, which can go either defense, checking stuff like Incineroar and Sneasel easily, while still providing good enough offensive presence with its stabs and how great Diamond Storm is. The Calm Mind set, both in terms of Sub-Cm and 3 attacks is an absurdly scary breaker if you don't prep for it right, being able to OHKO Fairy resists like Steelix after one boost if they're running the low spdef spread, and just chipping them to deal if not. This is in addition to having good enough bulk to actually buy time to set up. Finally, its a good heal bell mon, and lets be honest, a good heal bell mon has been missing from the tier considering how toxic infested it is.

Gigalith => A
Another Rock type, another A rank: This thing is unbelievably fat, taking 52% max from Life orb Venusaur's Giga Drain, and providing a really solid defensive pivot and rocker, with great all around bulk. Being able to support Sand Sweepers like Stoutland and Sandslash is also insanely useful, with Stoutland having basically 0 opportunity cost when used with Gigalith as simply an offense destroyer. Not much to say other than that it works on Sand HO, and basically anywhere else with just it and 1 sand abuser.

Comfey => B/B-
This thing pairs impeccably with Probopass, and being able to both break stall while contributing against offense with that +3 Draining kiss is super useful. I've been using the Dkiss/Taunt/Synth/CM set that was popular in RU, and it just can end games if it isn't properly prepared for, or if the opponent uses Steelix as their main Fairy Resist. That said, I'd err to B- rather than B because Venusaur exists, as well as like every other Poison type, still good mon, and legit creates a really fun playstyle.

Ambipom => C/C-
So, Ambi's best use before rising was trapping delphox with Fake Out / Pursuit mind games; Delphox is dead now, and offense is often running Gigalith, which just laughs at it. Not seeing amazing reasons to use it, but hey, a strong fake out is still nice, as is stalling weather turns.

Old stuff:
Audino-Mega: A+=>A

Ok, so this thing is passive beyond almost anything else in the tier, requires you to have probably the best Venusaur answer ever, or give up either your way of beating half the stuff you're supposed to check or Toxic (aka your best attack), and honestly, doesn't love the fact that more and more hazards are popping up in the tier. Not 100% on this nom, but haven't felt it be as dominant as it once was.

Delphox: A=> A-/B+/Lower
So, this mon is real bad atm, as both Gigalith and Diancie laugh at it, while the newly invigorated Stoutland just trivially OHKOs it while outspeeding under sand. Legit, this mon doesn't really excel at much atm, and I don't really think it should be this high.

Type: Null: A+=> A
So, people are actually taking this into account, and many of its main targets in Delphox and Whimsicott have sorta fallen off, and Sand makes it even easier to pressure than before. Sorta iffy on this one, but its felt notably weaker than it used to, and A+ is real high ranked.

Stoutland: UR => A/A-
This thing is fast as fuck, strong as fuck, and punishes scald abuse with Facade, which it 100% has the moveslots to run. It completely manhandles almost every single offense variant, and with Gigalith being a very viable mon in its own right, the opportunity cost of running it has fallen to wayyyy lower than it used to be. Not much to say other than if you're running Gigalith its basically a hybrid Breaker/Revenge Killer, and wearing down Steelix isn't all that hard when you're doing 50% with Superpower every time you predict right, and 20% with return even if you mess up your prediction.

Sandslash: UR=> B+
So, fast as fuck, OHKOs Slowbro with a +2 Z-EQ, what more do you need, aside from the ability to not just die to every enemy Vanilluxe every time its brought out. Most people see Stoutland as the face of Sand Offense, but this is carrying so much of the playstyle, as it punishes so many of Stout's switchins, while posing a very competent offensive threat in its own right. Sure, its slow as all hell outside of sand, but in sand, its by far quick enough, and brings a lot of really scary stuff ot the playstyle. Only reason its lower than Stout is because its not as splashable, and doesn't fit on the kinda Sand Balance playstyle that's been popping up recently.

Vivillon: A=>A-
So, this thing doesn't love the more offensive tilt the meta is taking, as well as the fact that one of its sets, sub QD just got a fuck ton worse, as Stout outruns at +1, Gigalith/Diancie take approx 0 from anything not called energy ball (and even with eball, +1 252 SpA Vivillon Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 128-152 (34.2 - 40.6%)), basically making it so that you have a lot less ambiguity when facing it. This is not a major change, as Viv still puts in insane work vs a lot of non-sand squads, but the rise of Sand really didn't help its viability, even if it can still work there.

Xatu: A=A-/B+
So, like, is anyone not keeping Xatu in mind while building? Curse Lix can be run to just plow through it, you have to give up so much offense its not funny to not just die to Sneasel, making it arguably setup bait, and both of the new Rock type Rockers just bypass it by threatening to chunk it for like all its HP while taking almost nothing in return. The only meta trend that actually favors it is Ferroseed existing again, but that's IMO not enough to save it.

Altaria: B=>B-/C+
Holy crap is this mon passive, plus it loses to all the new rockers trivially, drop. Like, what does it even excel at anymore, aside from giving legit like half the tier's sweepers free setup.

Golbat:B-=>B+/A-
So, Venusaur is currently our god, and this is by far the best answer to it. It also has the ability to be easily customized to almost any team with a wide variety of supporting options in Super Fang, Toxic, U-turn, Taunt, and all its tech options, as well as being a fairly usable Defogger (even if I prefer Stallbreaker). All in all, a pretty solid mon, and provides a lot of defensive utility to a ton of teams, while not inviting in the most mons (Klinklang, Rock Type Rockers, but they get Fang'd, Electrics), which aren't impossible to build to beat.

Ferroseed: C+=> B-/B
So, another nom almost entirely because it beats Venusaur, but this time it also sets up spikes, as well as heavily taking advantage of the recent fall in Xatu usage. Beating Diancie 1v1 easily is also nice, as CM diancie can be a huge threat to Balance/Bo atm (barring Hp Fire), while also beating Klinklang, which is always a plus. Just generally pretty solid, sure it may invite in a few annoying sweepers; see Incineroar, but shutting down some of the tier's biggest threats without much worry is just really solid, as is spikestacking, which allows it to pretend its less passive than it is, by just threatening the opposing team.

Monster Post, and there def is more I could say, but anything more and I'll just start making worse arguments than I already am.
 
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Rabia

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Going to echo sentiments of Delphox going down to somewhere around B+. Delphox is in a real shit spot right now since Sand sits on it (Gigalith says lol and Stoutland devours its soul), Diancie walls to hell and back, and AV Slowbro/Slowking are both pretty nice picks right now, giving Delphox quite a bit of trouble. You've also got Sneasel and Incineroar having not missed a beat, and Guzzlord even gaining some traction (though that was pre-qbs not sure if sir guzzington is still super spook). Overall, the meta hates Delphox.

Gonna also nom Tangela onto the rankings somewhere, probably around C+/B-. Sand is super spook rn, and Tangela is a nice pick to help alleviate strains against it; Tangela eats up hits from Stoutland and Sandslash (tho X-Scissor at +2 hurts) and of course doesn't really care about anything Gigalith does except Toxic.
 
Going to echo sentiments of Delphox going down to somewhere around B+. Delphox is in a real shit spot right now since Sand sits on it (Gigalith says lol and Stoutland devours its soul), Diancie walls to hell and back, and AV Slowbro/Slowking are both pretty nice picks right now, giving Delphox quite a bit of trouble. You've also got Sneasel and Incineroar having not missed a beat, and Guzzlord even gaining some traction (though that was pre-qbs not sure if sir guzzington is still super spook). Overall, the meta hates Delphox.

Gonna also nom Tangela onto the rankings somewhere, probably around C+/B-. Sand is super spook rn, and Tangela is a nice pick to help alleviate strains against it; Tangela eats up hits from Stoutland and Sandslash (tho X-Scissor at +2 hurts) and of course doesn't really care about anything Gigalith does except Toxic.
I wanted to like this post untill I read it had a second part asking for tangela to be ranked C+/B-;
While yes tangela beats sand but it's effectively ran over by any other current metagame mon in Venusaur, Golbat, Special Toxicroak, Silvally-Steel, or, jk, anything related to Venusaur meta. The pokemon holds solid defense and amazing utility moves in Knock, Sleep Powder and Leech Seeds, sadly it lacks any moves to hurt anything not neutral to grass coverage forcing it to passively support whatever it needs gone. This not only limits down what it wants to do heavily but also forces it down on playstyles who suit such needs aka primairly and almost limited to balance. Suggesting something with such hinderances, limitations to playstyles and current possition in this meta I can't see this mon anywhere in B- or C+.



To add my own contribution of a nomination every once in a while I ran over some of the mons listed in lower ranks and honestly 1 sticked out for how little it can do in this meta;
Typhlosion
, from C+ to C-/Unranked;
while in general this mon hasn't been cut much slack for it's capasity to hit powerfully with it's fire coverage often just plowing past the most common water type in slowbro(specs eruption literally 2HKO's). But right now I can't imagin a worse meta for it; sand chip, hail being used more to some extend, rocks/spikes being 10x more quickly set up thanks to a shift into a more offensive meta, increased offense in the form of needing more faster mons or having sand/hail abuse(seriously sandslashs are HOT right now and even more so is Stoutland). You have to medigate so many hinderances to use it's best asset and what do you have then? Oh right a stronger attacking move for an otherwise outclassed mon by something that's also worse in this meta aka delphox. Gigalith isn't just used on sand offense and it reliably answeres what Typhlosion wants to do forcing focus blast and even if it hits you lose 6% of your mons HP therefor lowering your main utility. Diancie on the otherhand takes little from almost anything it would like to do only taking 40.7 - 48% from specs HP grass if we are talking max HP diancie and not max spD diancie, because that one evades the 4HKO.
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 94-112 (30.9 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

As for the Hail I mentioned;
Sandslash-Alola from C- to C mid;
Scarf Abomasnow/Vanilluxe are legit scary for the majority of teams right now thanks to the lack of durable ice resists and how much athey do to common meta trending mons. This doesn't have so much to do with sand much more with a rise of offense and a shift in team styles thanks to honestly venusaur. While both can't come in on much they still have a plenty full time forcing down the opponents options as they could come in on agressively on one of many passive vs doeslittleagainstit-passive mon. Sandslash-A kinda comes in every 1/2 times right after that, it reliably pressures out most of what did otherwise stop you in your tracks in terms of offense and can be a pain to many of the 1v1 senario's. Issue still being how you get it in and even more so the lack of synergie it has with hail setters. almosy no mon you did 1v1 hail setters with really loses to sandslash-A 1v1. And this is also why I still believe it's influence isn't that major for C+ but seeing it's effect I think a small rise from just not hot trash to almost having a proper niche is deserved for once. Edit: I personally haven't actually gotten around to using SpD Sandslash-A but set has been solidly suggested on top of what I could imagive it being able to 1v1 in current meta even to punish vanilluxe, venu, golbat, name it. It brings role compression to your doorstep.
 
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Rabia

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GP & NU Leader
I wanted to like this post untill I read it had a second part asking for tangela to be ranked C+/B-;
While yes tangela beats sand but it's effectively ran over by any other current metagame mon in Venusaur, Golbat, Special Toxicroak, Silvally-Steel, or, jk, anything related to Venusaur meta. The pokemon holds solid defense and amazing utility moves in Knock, Sleep Powder and Leech Seeds, sadly it lacks any moves to hurt anything not neutral to grass coverage forcing it to passively support whatever it needs gone. This not only limits down what it wants to do heavily but also forces it down on playstyles who suit such needs aka primairly and almost limited to balance. Suggesting something with such hinderances, limitations to playstyles and current possition in this meta I can't see this mon anywhere in B- or C+.



To add my own contribution of a nomination every once in a while I ran over some of the mons listed in lower ranks and honestly 1 sticked out for how little it can do in this meta;
Typhlosion
, from C+ to C-/Unranked;
while in general this mon hasn't been cut much slack for it's capasity to hit powerfully with it's fire coverage often just plowing past the most common water type in slowbro(specs eruption literally 2HKO's). But right now I can't imagin a worse meta for it; sand chip, hail being used more to some extend, rocks/spikes being 10x more quickly set up thanks to a shift into a more offensive meta, increased offense in the form of needing more faster mons or having sand/hail abuse(seriously sandslashs are HOT right now and even more so is Stoutland). You have to medigate so many hinderances to use it's best asset and what do you have then? Oh right a stronger attacking move for an otherwise outclassed mon by something that's also worse in this meta aka delphox. Gigalith isn't just used on sand offense and it reliably answeres what Typhlosion wants to do forcing focus blast and even if it hits you lose 6% of your mons HP therefor lowering your main utility. Diancie on the otherhand takes little from almost anything it would like to do only taking 40.7 - 48% from specs HP grass if we are talking max HP diancie and not max spD diancie, because that one evades the 4HKO.
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 94-112 (30.9 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

As for the Hail I mentioned;
Sandslash-Alola from C- to C mid;
Scarf Abomasnow/Vanilluxe are legit scary for the majority of teams right now thanks to the lack of durable ice resists and how much athey do to common meta trending mons. This doesn't have so much to do with sand much more with a rise of offense and a shift in team styles thanks to honestly venusaur. While both can't come in on much they still have a plenty full time forcing down the opponents options as they could come in on agressively on one of many passive vs doeslittleagainstit-passive mon. Sandslash-A kinda comes in every 1/2 times right after that, it reliably pressures out most of what did otherwise stop you in your tracks in terms of offense and can be a pain to many of the 1v1 senario's. Issue still being how you get it in and even more so the lack of synergie it has with hail setters. almosy no mon you did 1v1 hail setters with really loses to sandslash-A 1v1. And this is also why I still believe it's influence isn't that major for C+ but seeing it's effect I think a small rise from just not hot trash to almost having a proper niche is deserved for once. Edit: I personally haven't actually gotten around to using SpD Sandslash-A but set has been solidly suggested on top of what I could imagive it being able to 1v1 in current meta even to punish vanilluxe, venu, golbat, name it. It brings role compression to your doorstep.
I feel you are underselling how threatening sand is in the current meta and how valuable having a Pokemon that checks the archetype’s main core is. You mention Tangela can be exploited by many prominent threats, but this isn’t hindering Tangela’s ability to do its job given proper team support and the proper playstyle around it.

You mention it can only fit on balance as a reason for C+/B- to be too high a spot. I don’t agree with this. Incineroar fits literally on balance/bulky offense yet finds itself firmly at the top of the meta given its ability to dominate much of the meta. I won’t make any further comparisons between the two as there really isn’t anything similar between them other than limitations to playstyles.

Sure, Tangela can be abused by other prevalent threats in the meta like Venusaur and Toxicroak. I don’t see how this prohibits its placement on the fringe of viability though. Heliolisk can be taken advantage of by other top-tier picks, but it has positives which still provide it with the ability to do what it wants to do.

Overall, requiring team support to function as well as you want it to + being abusable aren’t really traits which should hold Tangela back from being placed in C+/B- considering what those rankings mean in terms of viability, but also because sand is a dominating playstyle and Tangela provides a really solid pivot against it and isn’t deadweight against other matchups.
 
A+ --> A/A-
How the might has fallen, Whismicott isn't what it's used to be. Venusaur took the spot of being the best Grass type in the tier and with that Whimsicott falls out of the picture more and more. The new drops doesn't help it either, Sand with Gigalith makes it amazing speed tier kinda useless vs Sand. The rise of Incineroar doesn't help either, Incineroar is easily able to take hits from Whimsicott and either put heavy damage on something switching in or knock something off. All with all Whimsicott is still a good mon but certainly not A+ worthy.

A+ --> A

Mega-Audino has basicly the same issue as Whimsicott, Venusaur took over the tier and that makes Mega-Audino's job 10x times harder. In my personal oppinion is when I use more often then not im forced NOT to mega because I either lose my Regenerator or make Venusaur able to hit me super effectively. WishPass with Mega-Audino is also way harder then it was used to, you can even argue that Vaporeon does that job slightly better. Offensive Mega-Audino is also just too weak and slow to make it effective this gen. The things what is was supposed to check either fell out the picture (Whimsicott for example) or are just checked by better mons.

A --> A-
Rhydon isn't different then the other two I have talked about actually, only difference is that Rhydon has issues with not 1 but 2 rank S mons. You can even argue that Sneasel is something Rhydon certainly doesnt want to switch in to, but i'll let that one slide for now. Slowbro is an easy switch in to Rhydon, only really way for Rhydon to get past Slowbro is SD with Megahorn but it's just not able to run both of these (it's either one of those). I can write a whole article about why Rhydon isn't A rank worthy but I think we all know that the most common balance cores there are right now don't mind Rhydon at all.

A --> A-

Last one for today is Klinklang, the hype of Klinklang finally went down. Steelix most common set right now is either with Roar or with Curse which both beat Klinklang, Slowbro is still an issue for Klinklang weither you like it or not. The rise of Incineroar doesn't help either, Incineroar is easily able to take a +1 Z-steel or Z-electric and OHKO Klinklang. Rotom getting more populairity is also hurting Klinklang. Klinklang is one of those mons that is godlike one shift and then shit the other and it's right now more on the shit side.
 
Diancie should be A- imo rather than A as it has enough difficulty in the current meta that strays it away from the A ranks. Tanking hits from sneasel sounds nice until you realize one flinch or just prior residual is enough to muscle through it (3HKO). Can't reliably check Incineroar as no matter what it will take a hit and can 2HKO back with a boosted EQ. Rhydon and Steelix are most optimal rockers and Piloswine and Palossand aren't lagging that far behind and Diancie literally loses to all 4. CM is pretty good I'll give you that.

Do NOT drop Xatu. Lix is at its absolute prime atm and I've found that it partners incredibly well with sand. Also extremely adaptable for what it needs to do. I've been using that degenerate T-wave, D-Gleam, G-knot shit and it's been working quite well and Night shade/Tect is excellent as well.

Heliolisk should go A, hard to build around in general and teams have been prepping and overall just not that hard to play around. Should not be lower though, quite threatening still.

Ludicolo should be deported sent to UR/C-. There's like two auto setting weathers it needs to worry about and rain in general is ass.
Kind of the same with Kabutops but only to C+ cause its SD sets are not bad and it's not a horrible spinner however can justify staying B-.

Aromatisse is also rather "meh" and might warrant B, hard to build around, Golbat, Steelvally and Steelix have been getting better etc. {eople learned that two turn set up is increasingly difficult.

Ditto is might justify going B- actually. This with just minimal chip can revenge celebrate venu (also discourages it growthing up on you), keeps sand in check throughout the match, and Ditto stall is legitimate. Very flexible revenge killer rn.

Clawitzer is the epitome of mediocrity. Drop to C/C-. No defensive utility as well as just being slow as shit. Specs is bad cause you don't wanna be locked into anything and every other item kinda sucks on it. Breaks balance but there are much more consistent options. No real reason to pick this tbh except if you really want u-turn.

Regirock definitely should drop to C/C-/UR, the new rocks falling down means another giant has to fall. Just insane competition and loses to most special breakers. No real niche atm.
 
A+ --> A/A-
How the might has fallen, Whismicott isn't what it's used to be. Venusaur took the spot of being the best Grass type in the tier and with that Whimsicott falls out of the picture more and more. The new drops doesn't help it either, Sand with Gigalith makes it amazing speed tier kinda useless vs Sand. The rise of Incineroar doesn't help either, Incineroar is easily able to take hits from Whimsicott and either put heavy damage on something switching in or knock something off. All with all Whimsicott is still a good mon but certainly not A+ worthy.


A+ --> A

Mega-Audino has basicly the same issue as Whimsicott, Venusaur took over the tier and that makes Mega-Audino's job 10x times harder. In my personal oppinion is when I use more often then not im forced NOT to mega because I either lose my Regenerator or make Venusaur able to hit me super effectively. WishPass with Mega-Audino is also way harder then it was used to, you can even argue that Vaporeon does that job slightly better. Offensive Mega-Audino is also just too weak and slow to make it effective this gen. The things what is was supposed to check either fell out the picture (Whimsicott for example) or are just checked by better mons.


A --> A-
Rhydon isn't different then the other two I have talked about actually, only difference is that Rhydon has issues with not 1 but 2 rank S mons. You can even argue that Sneasel is something Rhydon certainly doesnt want to switch in to, but i'll let that one slide for now. Slowbro is an easy switch in to Rhydon, only really way for Rhydon to get past Slowbro is SD with Megahorn but it's just not able to run both of these (it's either one of those). I can write a whole article about why Rhydon isn't A rank worthy but I think we all know that the most common balance cores there are right now don't mind Rhydon at all.


A --> A-

Last one for today is Klinklang, the hype of Klinklang finally went down. Steelix most common set right now is either with Roar or with Curse which both beat Klinklang, Slowbro is still an issue for Klinklang weither you like it or not. The rise of Incineroar doesn't help either, Incineroar is easily able to take a +1 Z-steel or Z-electric and OHKO Klinklang. Rotom getting more populairity is also hurting Klinklang. Klinklang is one of those mons that is godlike one shift and then shit the other and it's right now more on the shit side.
Klinklang>A-:Disagree
With the new drops, Klinklang has only gotten better, particularly the magnet rise set. With magnet rise it's able to set up on both Diancie and Gigalith, the latter being particularly good as you then get a chance for 1 grind gear and invalidate the sand rush boost stout and lash get. Also, Slowbro is an issue, but since seismitoad left, electricium-z is pretty useable and deals just fine with Slowbro. I agree the rising popularity of incineroar and rotom hurt it, but I think the few oppurtunities it gained to set up on Comfey, Diancie, Gigalith, and it's usefulness against sand balance those cons out
 
Houndoom: A->>B+
Spr_2c_229.png

-------------------------------
I really want to like this mon, but it's sort of fallen from grace since the new drops. Delphox is no longer really the threat it used to be, particularly scarf, which Houndoom was arguably the best counter to. It may not be evident yet, but Guzzlord will become more common because Incineroar should now be running EQ over drain punch for Diancie, and as a result Houndoom's effectiveness is hampered. And on that note, Diancie is a huge issue for Houndoom, as both it's stabs are resisted and it allows Diancie to set up a calm mind, which can be a bit scary. Lastly it lets Gigalith come in for basically free, get sand up, and live to see another day due to how little dark pulse does to spdef Gigalith (Look at the VR and see what else doesn't hit rock SE, or with a higher BP than 80...).
 

shiloh

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nu viability rankings update | april 29th, 2018

hootie / eternally are busy atm so ill post the vr update that we voted on, and a mod can just update the op @ a later time
Code:
slowbro - s
venusaur - s

sneasel - a+
steelix - a+
vanilluxe - a+
incineroar - a+
diancie - a+

audino-mega - a
heliolisk - a
type:null - a
guzzlord - a
klinklang - a
medicham - a
rhydon - a
toxicroak - a
hariyama - a
passimian - a
whimsicott - a
gigalith - a

xatu - a-
piloswine - a-
rotom-n - a-
slowking - a-
stoutland - a-

delphox - b+
druddigon - b+
vivillon - b+
garbodor - b+
houndoom - b+
sceptile - b+
sigilyph - b+
aromatisse - b+
braviary - b+

cryogonal - b
magmortar - b
mismagius - b
vikavolt - b
absol - b
omastar - b
pyukumuku - b
silvally-steel - b
togedemaru - b
vaporeon - b
blastoise - b
gallade - b
gastrodon - b
golbat - b
palossand - b
vileplume - b
ferroseed - b
hitmonlee - b
comfey - b
sandslash - b

samurott - b-
scyther - b-
cinccino - b-
kabutops - b-
uxie - b-
zangoose - b-
probopass - b-
torterra - b-

dodrio - c+
haunter - c+
accelgor - c+
exeggutor-alola - c+
ludicolo - c+
spiritomb - c+
jellicent - c+
sandslash-alola - c+

charizard - c
altaria - c
aurorus - c
clawitzer - c
ditto - c
froslass - c
smeargle - c
typhlosion - c
gourgeist-super - c
shuckle - c
skuntank - c
ambipom - c

articuno - c-
drampa - c-
minior - c-
raticate-alola - c-
crustle - c-
gurdurr - c-
lycanroc - c-
poliwrath - c-

hitmontop - d
qwilfish - d

regirock - ur
silvally-water - ur
sawk - ur
abomasnow - ur
granbull - ur
liepard - ur
pinsir - ur
crabominable - ur

people that voted: eternally / finchinator / meeps / kay / quziel / blast / shiloh / tangy / earth
for reference, the new pokemon added with this update were
diancie - a+ | gigalith - a | stoutland - a- | comfey - b | sandslash - b | ambipom - c

this was mainly an update that took into affect the new drops, as well as cleaning up the lower ranks as there was a lot of stuff that we didnt feel was viable / useful in the current metagame.

also, just for the future, these were the ranks prior to this shift
https://pastebin.com/raw/gWC8daAf

there arent a whole lot of discussion points, so feel free to bring up what you want, and let us know if you have any questions on why any mon was ranked where it was n_n
 
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I have a couple of complaints about that list;



Why is typhlosion still ranked at all, I am not going to reword what I already said on why it's obsolete in this meta; instead i will quote myself;
Typhlosion
, from C+ to C-/Unranked;
while in general this mon hasn't been cut much slack for it's capasity to hit powerfully with it's fire coverage often just plowing past the most common water type in slowbro(specs eruption literally 2HKO's). But right now I can't imagin a worse meta for it; sand chip, hail being used more to some extend, rocks/spikes being 10x more quickly set up thanks to a shift into a more offensive meta, increased offense in the form of needing more faster mons or having sand/hail abuse(seriously sandslashs are HOT right now and even more so is Stoutland). You have to medigate so many hinderances to use it's best asset and what do you have then? Oh right a stronger attacking move for an otherwise outclassed mon by something that's also worse in this meta aka delphox. Gigalith isn't just used on sand offense and it reliably answeres what Typhlosion wants to do forcing focus blast and even if it hits you lose 6% of your mons HP therefor lowering your main utility. Diancie on the otherhand takes little from almost anything it would like to do only taking 40.7 - 48% from specs HP grass if we are talking max HP diancie and not max spD diancie, because that one evades the 4HKO.
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 94-112 (30.9 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vikavolt didn't like the new rockers but it also doens't mind the new meta where it proceeds to provide a viable pivot with reliable recovery. It has a wide capasity to 1v1 and a number of mons with specifically slowbro to reliably switch into making it ideal for sand oriented teams, it provides a great grass, yama, slowbro and malamar answere. Unlike most other pokemon this one also doesn't hold back against increasing meta trends like guzzlord, rotom and Klinklang, tho the last it can't reliably beat on it's own without Thunderbolt. idk any of this could have made it drop from A- a while ago to B+ down to B mid it's suggested now.

Highly unpopular opinion on this one but I stand amazed by how much this mon is being justified despite the vast issues it has;
Comfey.

I want to get 1 thing clear and that is that I dislike compairing whismi to this thing despite the fact I did recommend it over it 10/10 times; as these mons have very little in common in terms of utility except if I viewed sub-seed whimsi which is ew right now. Let's actually debate the set in question first because that for somereason is flexed in all shapes to view 1 viability:
Taunt, Synthesis, Draining kiss and Calm mind/U-turn is all I have seen mentioned and put to use and I agree with the statement that this is where the mon has a niche in. Downside being it's a dogshit niche; from Klinklang, Venusaur, Silvally-steel, Golbat, Steelix and Gigalith this mon doesn't do a half crap without running enough speed to outspeed taunt golbat, at which point yes you do 1v1 it if no weathers are up or you not being toxicated. Both aren't hard to avoid when using comfey they just fail when you mind that comfey can't last the game both synthesis and Draining kiss PP wise if it does get past Golbat/Silvally-steel. Meanwhile Venusaur, Klinklang and Steelix are unhindered. Gigalith comes into question because it can take 0 and deal back a bit, remove it's recovery and force it to taunt proceeding to damage up. much like golbat you can 1v1 this one but at cost of important turns. This goes without mentioning current meta dropping pokemon Type: Null, Garbodor, Cryogonal, Braviary who all are a pain for comfey, but thankfully those are seemingly less used now. Idk how that makes this mon able to stand at b alongside silvally-steel, miltank, malamar, scrafty, omastar and other meta dominating pokemon who need barely any support to sweep(scrafty/malamar/omastar) or provide unquestioned utility to balance teams(miltank/silvally-steel). C+.

On subject of specifically golbat and silvally-steel; both of these mons from B to B+.

Golbat answeres venusaur, toxicroak, slowbro, Mega-audino, Type: Null without an Sd up, checks whimsicott/incineroar if no rocks were up and not mentioning how later in the game it can provide a reliable fight answere without needing eviolite. I will take away some of the slack I give it as it still fails to reliably deal with steelix, sd don, pilo or our current rockers without mixing move slots of U-turn, super fang, toxic, brave bird, roost and shitty defog. And relies on toxic or BB to deal damage even vs electric/ice types. In a way that shouldn't be too relevant as those don't last long enough or lack the bulk to matter in this regard. It's far from flawless as I ignored the existence of Xatu and such but certainly worth the rise to B+.


Silvally-steel has simalar impact in the capasity to block celebrate and other venu sets alongside pivoting without worry for half of the game. it reliably provides defog and can be a tricky if you don't find out what the main attack of the mon is; flash cannon, flamethrower, surf, thunderbolt, toxic all those more offensive oriented moves can be nasty if not scouted for when using set up pokemon like venu/aromatisse/diancie.
Past that it comes into ice types like vanilluxe, cryo, sneasel, fairy types like whimsicott, diancie, dragon's like guzzlord and flying stuff like braviary/xatu. All depending on what last move it runs. I actually don't have much of an argument that is ment to wow people as I assumed it was almost universally seen to be a great option despite the lack of recovery and instant offense. B+
 
Hey, its been a while. I've gotten relatively used to the meta now (emphasis on relatively) but I also dropped off on activity cuz of tennis season (hi ADVANTAGE). Anyhow one of the main things that I want to bring up is ice cream.

Vanilluxe -- S

Why? Well lets start with the obvious. Specs Ice Cream destroys everything.

Diancie
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 276-328 (90.7 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

Gigalith
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 145-172 (38.7 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gigalith in Sand: 211-249 (56.4 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Comfey
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Comfey: 243-286 (80.4 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

Cool, so we establish Vanilluxe does a ton of damage. Granted, it doesn't like switching into diancie or gigalith, but it can rock them for a decent chunk. Also, with the obvious increase in sand teams being used, instant hail isn't the worst thing in the world. Off a slow volt/turn, Vanilluxe can pretty much halt a sand team and then deal massive damage when a pokemon has to switch. The biggest issue Vanilluxe really faces is getting choice locked into the wrong move against the wrong mon. Klinklang still 1 v 1s it if it doesn't select HP Ground, and because of sand, we see more klinklangs. But in general, thats always been a problem. The utility of getting rid of sandstorm, in addition to its obscene power, for me, notched Ice Cream the S slot.

Bonus: Still works well with Venu cuz weather ball, ice, beats up flying types (golbat).
Bonus x 2: It also works on pseudo sand teams because it pairs well with bulky pokemon, revenge killers who can beat rock/steel types, and alolan sandslash functions in both hail and sandstorm so you can make an entire weather team without much drawback.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Diancie -- S (if you won't give it to Ice Cream)

Here's my reasoning for this. Aside from Venusaur, Diancie has one of the most diverse movepools. You can run a CM set, a specs set, a SR set, a mega set, a cleric, a screens set (please don't), or my personal favorite, run it on trick room teams (with trickroom).

Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Stealth Rock

Obviously you can run a ton of variations on whichever set you want. We already know Diancie is bulky as heck, that it doesn't really lose to gyro ball as much as one would think it should, it packs a nasty punch, a max SpD set with a +2 defense is nearly unkillable, and a bunch of counters for pokemon like Houndoom, Black Belt Kitty, Sneasel, and a few others. We already know that its SpA is servicable and that on a trickroom team, you can run a - speed nature (like sassy). It has great chemistry with a lot of other pokemon that fit on TR teams like Vikavolt and Slowbro. Lastly, TR abuses slush rushers/ Sand rushers, especially if you get a +1 SpD boost from sand and get lucky enough for a +2 on the defense. If anyone has a dissent, please lmk, but personally, these two mons seem indomitable right now with one or two minor flaws that don't merit withholding an S rank.

Final Note: Yes, I understand that steel types ruin both of these mons, but thankfully, 1) Pokemon isn't a 1 v 1 scenario all the time and 2) Ice Cream can get around with prediction and Diancie pairs really nicely with mons that defeat steel types like balloon probo, vika, and lix. I like these mons a lot, and think that new and interesting ways to use them will display how infallible they are, because they are mons that fit the bill for everything an S mon needs. Variance in sets, fits well on a lot of teams, threatening, checks a lot of the more dangerous mons in the tier, and overall have good niches. Good luck to those participating in the NUPL and I'll see y'all in the NU chat!
 
I disagree with Diancie -> S. As a rocker it gives many other rockers a favorable switch-in (Steelix, Rhydon, Palossand) and it doesn't match up well against either Slowbro or Venusaur (In fact, LO venusaur OHKOs Sp.def Diancie with Leaf Storm after rocks). I agree its match-up against Sand as well as Dark-types is pretty good in general, but it loses to too many staples of the format to be considered S worthy.

Vanilluxe is a tad closer, but SR weakness and being kinda slow in general keeps it from S as well IMO.

Agree with Golbat -> B+.
 

Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
Since I'm horribly uncreative I'm going to comment on nominations thus far since the most recent update.

-> B+ (Agree)
I think if Golbat continues on this upward path, I bet it could go to A- with enough support (though I personally wouldn't support it). For one, Taunt right now is such a useful move versus Pokemon like Scrafty, and just the overall Defog + Toxic support Golbat offers is amazing right now, especially with the new rockers. Also with Sneasel kind of getting worse, Golbat doesn't have to worry about getting it's Evoilite knocked off, or taking an Icicle Crash to the face as much.

-> S (Big Disagree)
I get Vanilluxe is great and all with Sand becoming popular, and being able to prevent Sand, but like it can't really switch in to anything at all on Sand teams, unlike on Sun teams where there are opportunities versus Whimsicott, Liepard, Regirock, etc., and sometimes versus Venusaur and the other sun abusers. Vanilluxe, being a slower Pokemon with it's Choice Specs set, also hates Stealth Rocks a lot, so it's worn down quite easily. Not to mention, Type: Null, Hariyama, and Silvally-Steel are still Pokemon, so it's still kind of hard for Vanilluxe to spam Blizzard.

-> S (Abstain)
It's kind of hard for me to want to send this to S-rank right now, especially when it was still basically just dropped a week and a half ago. I understand it's super diverse and all, but I still feel like it's a bit too early to raise this Pokemon any higher.

-> B+ (Agree)
Not gonna lie I thought that Silvally-Steel was already B+, but I guess not. Like RhydonPhillip mentioned above, Silvally-Steel matches up well against Celebrate Venusaur, which is always great, especially since Venusaur is becoming 20x more popular with the new Rock-types in the tier. It also kind of likes the newer drops as well, more specifically Diancie, as it can eat an Earth Power with it's high SpDef and fire a Flash Cannon back. I don't really think anything higher than B+ is good for Silvally-Steel, but it should definitely be there as it's certainly more relevant than the likes of Absol and Blastoise.

-> Shadow Realm (Agree)
Okay so I lied this is a nom of my own but I don't even think B+ suits Delphox at all. It may seem like I am underselling it completely but this Pokemon has no place in the current meta whatsoever. The new Rock-types shit on it, so does sand, and it hates the increased usage of Assault Vest Pokemon, like Slowbro and Slowking. Also probably not as relevant anymore but Incineroar also eats Delphox alive as well. Not much more to say on the matter other than Delphox has really fallen off it's throne.

-> C-/Unranked (Agree)
I can agree with this one as well for basically the same reasoning as above.

-> C+/C
Okay this Pokemon seems to keep on getting worse and worse. The trend of these nominations here are that the Rock-types screw x Pokemon over. The same situation applies here, and while the Toxic Boost set has some merit, It just can't break through the higher defenses of Gigalith and Diancie without dying in 1-2 hits in return. Sand also completely eats Zangoose alive as well. Not much else to say here, but I think Zangoose should definitely drop another tier.

-> A-
I don't think Guzzlord is necessarily a bad Pokemon but I think the recent meta trends, not just now, but in the past month and a half, have really screwed Guzzlord over. The rise in usage of Fighting-types like Hariyama, Medicham, and Passimian, and now with Diancie as a new Fairy-type, as well as Comfey, make it really hard for Guzzlord to come in on anything, and Guzzlord has a few Pokemon now that are trendy right now that really switch into it's attacks. Like I said before, I don't think Guzzlord is a bad Pokemon now or anything, or that it's even gotten too much worse, but I do think it's enough to warrant a drop to A-.

-> Something Higher
There isn't really some meta trend that warrants this to rise, but it should definitely not be this low, so make it higher lol.

Other noms I support/do not support but don't want to give reasoning for/repeat stuff that's already been said:

-> B+ (Agree)
-> C+ (Agree)
-> A- (Agree)

A lot of my reasoning is probably shit so point it out if you'd like :D.
 
Since I'm horribly uncreative I'm going to comment on nominations thus far since the most recent update.

-> B+ (Agree)
I think if Golbat continues on this upward path, I bet it could go to A- with enough support (though I personally wouldn't support it). For one, Taunt right now is such a useful move versus Pokemon like Scrafty, and just the overall Defog + Toxic support Golbat offers is amazing right now, especially with the new rockers. Also with Sneasel kind of getting worse, Golbat doesn't have to worry about getting it's Evoilite knocked off, or taking an Icicle Crash to the face as much.

-> S (Big Disagree)
I get Vanilluxe is great and all with Sand becoming popular, and being able to prevent Sand, but like it can't really switch in to anything at all on Sand teams, unlike on Sun teams where there are opportunities versus Whimsicott, Liepard, Regirock, etc., and sometimes versus Venusaur and the other sun abusers. Vanilluxe, being a slower Pokemon with it's Choice Specs set, also hates Stealth Rocks a lot, so it's worn down quite easily. Not to mention, Type: Null, Hariyama, and Silvally-Steel are still Pokemon, so it's still kind of hard for Vanilluxe to spam Blizzard.

-> S (Abstain)
It's kind of hard for me to want to send this to S-rank right now, especially when it was still basically just dropped a week and a half ago. I understand it's super diverse and all, but I still feel like it's a bit too early to raise this Pokemon any higher.

-> B+ (Agree)
Not gonna lie I thought that Silvally-Steel was already B+, but I guess not. Like RhydonPhillip mentioned above, Silvally-Steel matches up well against Celebrate Venusaur, which is always great, especially since Venusaur is becoming 20x more popular with the new Rock-types in the tier. It also kind of likes the newer drops as well, more specifically Diancie, as it can eat an Earth Power with it's high SpDef and fire a Flash Cannon back. I don't really think anything higher than B+ is good for Silvally-Steel, but it should definitely be there as it's certainly more relevant than the likes of Absol and Blastoise.

-> Shadow Realm (Agree)
Okay so I lied this is a nom of my own but I don't even think B+ suits Delphox at all. It may seem like I am underselling it completely but this Pokemon has no place in the current meta whatsoever. The new Rock-types shit on it, so does sand, and it hates the increased usage of Assault Vest Pokemon, like Slowbro and Slowking. Also probably not as relevant anymore but Incineroar also eats Delphox alive as well. Not much more to say on the matter other than Delphox has really fallen off it's throne.

-> C-/Unranked (Agree)
I can agree with this one as well for basically the same reasoning as above.

-> C+/C
Okay this Pokemon seems to keep on getting worse and worse. The trend of these nominations here are that the Rock-types screw x Pokemon over. The same situation applies here, and while the Toxic Boost set has some merit, It just can't break through the higher defenses of Gigalith and Diancie without dying in 1-2 hits in return. Sand also completely eats Zangoose alive as well. Not much else to say here, but I think Zangoose should definitely drop another tier.

-> A-
I don't think Guzzlord is necessarily a bad Pokemon but I think the recent meta trends, not just now, but in the past month and a half, have really screwed Guzzlord over. The rise in usage of Fighting-types like Hariyama, Medicham, and Passimian, and now with Diancie as a new Fairy-type, as well as Comfey, make it really hard for Guzzlord to come in on anything, and Guzzlord has a few Pokemon now that are trendy right now that really switch into it's attacks. Like I said before, I don't think Guzzlord is a bad Pokemon now or anything, or that it's even gotten too much worse, but I do think it's enough to warrant a drop to A-.

-> Something Higher
There isn't really some meta trend that warrants this to rise, but it should definitely not be this low, so make it higher lol.

Other noms I support/do not support but don't want to give reasoning for/repeat stuff that's already been said:

-> B+ (Agree)
-> C+ (Agree)
-> A- (Agree)

A lot of my reasoning is probably shit so point it out if you'd like :D.
yes. there was quite a bit of reasoning that made little to no sense at all....
Raticate rising when NU is run by bulky rock types like gigalith and diancie and strong fairy types like whimsi and diancie exist? wut?? sand also hurts it considerably as sand chip and double edge recoil add up. Also why use Raticate when you could use dark types like Incineroar and Sneasel? Incineroar has better bulk, a better second stab in fire, while Sneasel actually has speed, excellent ice stab and both share the ability not to miss 20% of the time on every attack they use bar Z-move. These dark types are more reliable and do it's job better imo, along with the meta being against it, you have a recipe for a C- rank mon. You said it yourself when nomming guzzlord to A- how common fighting types are rn, and Raticate doesn't escape from that.
 
C- ---> Unrank
I'd like to see this go unranked please. Unfortunately, I don't think has a strong enough niche as a boosting attacker, it's fairly weak even with invested attack and fighting counters are prevalent (Venusaur & Slowbro are S rank), Aromatisse, Comfey, Pallosand don't really care either. Even checks like Whim and Slowking aren't too bothered either and the problem continues that doesn't have a lot of flexibility for moveslots if it ever wanted to use a different form of coverage. Scrafty sports better typing which allows more switch in opportunities and can sponge status and rest away damage. I get having priority and guts boost can be good but it's still not enough to work with.

B ---> C+/ C


How is Gastro so high? It's such an awkward pokemon to work around, no? When I think about water types Gastro is one of the last things that comes into mind since they can be a great asset on nu teams. Ground typing is what's supposed to set this thing apart from its competitors but it's not even that useful. It's begging for a fighting resistance, or the ability to be wish / heal bell support but it can only just sit there in battle and click toxic and recover? If I switch Gastro into Steelix for example i'm instantly crippled by toxic, it's not so bad for slowbro's case since regen works wonders. I'm not saying it's awful because i'm sure you can make it work but I don't ever see do anything in games other than being forced out or being sacked.

B ---> C+

Another subpar water type. It has good matchup against most Stealth Rock setters and refresh is a gem but this just leaves it to be pretty passive, it's definitely got a moveslot syndrome. Venusaur comes in for free which is the best pokemon right now and most offensive pokemon that switch into toxic aren't too bothered (Heliolisk, Sceptile, Alolan Exeggutor, Whimsicott and then there's toxicroak & vileplume). Blastoise hates switching into every fire type since they have the coverage to beat it or cripple it with knock so it sucks to lose your only form of recovery so I'd like to see it ranked lower.
 
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