Resource USUM OU ULTRA Viability Ranking Thread

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Guardsweeper

Semper ad Meliora
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For the sake of giving you a break from all these UR nominations

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Gliscor A >>> A+


I cannot be the only one that is completely flabbergasted by the phenomenon that Gliscor is right now. Even though it was used less in the 3rd week of Snake compared to the first couple of weeks, Gliscor is as of now still the most used Pokemon throughout Snake, a testament to how splashable and effective it currently is. It has quickly and massively popularized hazard stacking balance builds with its incredibly utile specially defensive Sword's Dance set, which provides terrifying lategame sweeping capabilities while shutting down Heatran, Toxapex and a plethora of other both offensive and passive threats thoughout a match by simply outlasting them. A simple team composition of Gliscor + Mega Latias + Ferrothorn + Clefable is arguably the best balance structure right now, since it's extremely hard to wear down, while it in turn effortlessly wears down a majority of teams through hazard stacking. Gliscor is a key element to the success of these teams, since it forces a lot of switches. Simply put, Gliscor is too good to be A right now.

Other Pokemon that really deserve a rise:
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Mega Latias A >>> A+
[Has been the best Psychic type in Tour for a while, definitely more relevant than Mega Zam]
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Clefable A- >>> A
[Is the premier Rocker in a lot of structures right now with lots of additional utility, while just being very difficult to break]
 
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Diophantine

慈陰
is a Tutor

Celebi: UR -> C/C+ Rank

Celebi has the stats and movepool to back up being a decent (though flawed) Pokemon in the USUM OU metagame. I thought of this mainly due to the torrential abuse of teams supported by Pelliper's Drizzle. Celebi, with a bit of Defence investment, avoids a 2HKO from Mega Swampert's Ice Punch; it can outspeed at 2HKO Manaphy (they don't run much speed iirc) and can deal with threats like Azumarill and Crawdaunt (though it can't reliably switch into the latter). It also survives an OHKO from Ash-Greninja's Dark Pulse pre-Battle Bond and can punish it, provided it doesn't get flinched.

The spirit of Ilex Forest has uses outside of the rain matchup too. With a bit of speed investment, it can outspeed all versions of Heatran and 2HKO even Specially Defensive variants with Earth Power. If you have managed to Knock Off Celesteela's Leftovers, then Celebi can come in, wall it and prevent it from recovering from Leech Seed due to its useful Grass typing and Recover off any Heavy Slam or Flamethrower damage. Celebi also walls several threats such as Mega Lopunny and Mega Diancie.

Celebi can run a number of moves to give its user utility. HP Fire can be used to surprise Scizor users and dent Ferrothorn; Thunder Wave can be used for speed control; Leech Seed is useful for punishing non-Grass-type Pokemon that would like to switch in like Heatran, Medicham and Kyurem; Worry Seed can remove Gliscor's Poison Heal, Mawile and Medicham’s attack boosting abilities and stop Regenerator; Toxic can be aimed at Latios/Latias and Tapu Bulu and HP Ice can be used to 2HKO Gliscor and the list goes on - use your imagination lol. Heck, this thing can even get Rocks up. Natural Cure is obviously a really good ability allowing it to pivot into Toxapex and other such passive status spreaders with ease.

Celebi is not without its flaws though. 4x weakness to a move as spammable as U-Turn is not great, and it can sometimes be quite passive in the face of Pokemon that tend to set-up (though this can be mitigated with the correct team support. It can be walled by opposing Pokemon like Mega Sableye and Tapu Bulu quite easily. Four moveslot syndrome takes its toll on our little Onion Fairy as it has so many good utility moves but can't run them all. Grass STAB and Recover are necessary, the other two slots can be left to the imagination, though I have always ran Earth Power leaving only one slot left to get creative with.

For these reasons, I think that Celebi's niche earns it a spot in either C+ or C rank. I haven't yet tried to use an offensive Celebi, but I will make sure to and give my thoughts afterwards. May the spirit of Ilex Forest bring you good health and prosperity. Peace xx

Some replays coz Jordy asked. I had much better quality games in testing with a friend but I don't usually save replays of friendlies so I just went to mess around on ladder.
Vs Rain
Vs Scizor
Vs Charizard X (tbf I should have attacked with Celebi turn 2 instead of switching but whatever I guess this is a demonstration of its bulk)
Vs Webs
Update on Celebi: Offensive Celebi is horrendous just use Lele instead.
After experimenting I have found that Worry Seed is, in my opinion, the best fourth move for Defensive Celebi, and it has helped me a lot in some very sticky situations.
A list of meta relevant uses for Worry Seed:
-Removing Magic Guard from Toxiced setup Pokemon like Clefable and Reuniclus. Very useful as these Pokemon like to absorb Toxic from Toxapex, for example.
-Removing Regenerator from the regen mons but most notably Tornadus, as it is the Pokemon most likely switching into it. With Stealth Rocks up, it loses 25% and can't recover it. Still useful for the others.
-Emergency Vs Mawile. Essentially a temporary Will-o-Wisp that lets you beat it one-on-one with Earth Power.
-Most importantly, the ability to completely counter all versions of Gliscor.
-More situational, but you can use it on Hawlucha on the turn it tries to set up Swords Dance on what they believe to be a free turn. Similarly with Excadrill.
-Allowing you to completely count Scarf (not Sub) Serperior
 
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bigtalk

Banned deucer.
I support Gliscor moving from A >>> A+. I have been watching a lot of Snake Draft replays and as others have mentioned, it's being absolutely spammed there; Swords Dance variants in particular seem to be very difficult for a lot of teams to handle. Gliscor is able to switch into a lot of top threats, including most of the S rank mons, and spam Facade in order to force recovery from/quickly wear down its checks. Its bulk and status immunity lets it set up against a ton of mons, and also makes it very difficult to revenge kill (for example, it's able to live Hydro Pump from Rotom-W at full pretty easily). Many of its better checks are also relatively easy to shut down or take advantage of in some fashion, ie. Celesteela/Skarmory being trappable by Magnezone, Lati@s being Pursuit trappable and giving infinite free switch-ins to steels if no HP Fire etc. so it's straightforward to pair it with something that can take care of them.

Some replays of SD Gliscor in action:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-454806 - Gliscor gets 2.5 kills on a fat team once Skarm is weakened
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-454313 - Gliscor goes in after Shedinja dies and Skarm gets trapped
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-454551 - Opponent edges out a win by playing extremely aggressively around Gliscor
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-455616 - Gliscor uses Celesteela as setup fodder, and the opponent ends up having to hard switch into his Weavile, twice
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-455922 - Gliscor exerts huge pressure despite the opponent having both Mega Latias and a Celesteela. The opponent has to play smartly in order to avoid having Mega Latias in on Chansey (since it's always forced out due to the threat of Toxic, no matter how badly it's been chipped and wants to Recover). Rocks + Facade damage forces it to burn through nearly all of its Recovers by the end of the match.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-447172 - This replay from WCoP, Gliscor gets endless switch-ins to the opponent's Magearna/Landorus-T and even uses Fini as setup fodder. Mega Latias being the opponent's only long-term answer to Gliscor is constantly forced to come in and burn Recovers, and is deadweight against the rest of FMG's team.
 
Really surprised that this isnt already ranked so


Shedinja: UR -> C

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- X-Scissor
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect

Shedinja is a super solid pick on stall teams right now, with Wonder Guard letting it wall a lot of the common pokemon that stall usually has trouble with. It got used a bunch in OLT mainly to counter Manaphy rain among other things but with the rise in SD Gliscor Shedinja is getting even better. But if you're not convinced by that alone heres more in-depth about what Shedinja does:

Tapu Lele is a huge threat to Mega Sableye stalls, and Shedinja walls it completely and threatens the 2hko with X-Scissor if Lele doesn't have HP Fire. Even with HP fire, if its a specs/scarf set (which it usually is if HP Fire), it won't matter when Lele's locked into Moonblast/Psyshock/Psychic. And stall doesnt have trouble scouting for this most of the time, regen mons/chansey can soak up damage and protect isn't a rarity on stall. Obviously Shedinja isn't the only mon that beats Lele (@ Mew) but Shedinja has benefits that differentiate it from Mew in that regard- Shedinja having 1 HP means it literally can't be worn down over the course of the match, so the game plan of "chip down the stall player's specs Lele check until its in range of getting 2hkod" is off the table.

Gliscor is worth noting not because its especially problematic for stall- stall has trouble touching it, but it also can't really touch stall in return- but its rise in usage, especially the SD set, just makes a pokemon that can switch in and completely wall it that much better. Its especially worth noting that the Gliscor/Reuniclus core gets eaten alive by Shedinja, with both members giving it a free switch in and forcing it out. Toxic on Gliscor can be a problem but its not the hardest thing to scout for, usually you should switch into something like Skarm or your own Gliscor to catch a Toxic or Defog away rocks before you know the set anyways. But yeah Shed shits on Gliscor and as long as Gliscor's good Shed's gonna be good too to counter it.

Tapu Fini is one of the biggest headaches for stall imo, Misty Terrain blocking Toxic for it and its teammates along with the combination of Taunt/Nature's Madness to punish switches is really rough to deal with. Enter Shedinja, who is immune to everything Tapu Fini runs. Shedinja is in kind of an awkward spot vis a vis Fini where Taunt stops you from Swords Dancing, which means youre relying on the 14-17% of Shadow Sneak to 9hko Fini. More realistically, Fini Taunts and switches out, letting you get a bit of chip in on whatever switches out.

Manaphy is a big part of why Shedinja got popular during OLT, with its Tail Glow+Rest+Waterium Z+Psychic set on rain being able to dismantle stall pretty easily. Shedinja puts a stop to that, walling Manaphy and threatening to turn it into setup bait. But beyond that, Shedinja is the last puzzle piece along with Sableye and Chansey that makes that particular stall build have a really solid rain matchup. Shedinja easily switches into and walls Manaphy and Swampert (or Kingdra or Koko, depending on the team), Chansey switches into and walls Greninja, and Sableye switches into and walls Ferrothorn. These 3 aren't amazing vs Torn/Pelipper (Shed can technically counter Pelipper but you really don't want to risk taking a surprise Hurricane when you need Shed for Mana+Pert), but you have 3 more team slots that can cover those. But yeah overall Shedinja makes stall really safe against rain, in spite of Manaphy otherwise destroying it.

Theres a bunch of other stuff that Shedinja counters but its usually contingent on that pokemon not having a given move so I don't want to go as in-depth on those: pokemon like non-Stone Edge/Fly Lando, non-Toxic Toxapex, non-HP Fire Magearna, non-Knock Off Kartana, non-Knock Off/Fire Fang Mega Mawile (even if its sucker punch, you just burn it and watch it get chipped to death while clicking SD/Wisp), non-Heat Wave Zapdos, non-Wisp/Toxic Rotom-W, non-Stone Edge Bulu, non-Fire Blast Clef, non-HP Fire Mega Latios, non-Knock Off Mega Scizor... the list goes on. Shedinja is just a very solid blanket check to a lot of dangerous mons for stall, and stall teams that are built to support it by keeping hazards off the field and soaking up damage from pokemon that threaten it (ttar, gren, blace, torn, etc) are really rewarded for it.

Obligatory Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-980350523 Shedinja gets a free switch into and walls Gliscor and Lele whenever they come in, forcing them out and getting chip on whatever switches in (usually Heatran)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-980581994 Shedinja is able to wall and force out Fini and Gliscor until it sets up to +6 on them and sweeps
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-980593057 this ones really short (rip) but it shows how sableye+pex+sableye+chansey are able to switch around ferrothorn and fini and make the opponent waste pp super easily
also like. shedinja's OLT success shows how good it is. shed for C
 
Really surprised that this isnt already ranked so


Shedinja: UR -> C

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- X-Scissor
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect

Shedinja is a super solid pick on stall teams right now, with Wonder Guard letting it wall a lot of the common pokemon that stall usually has trouble with. It got used a bunch in OLT mainly to counter Manaphy rain among other things but with the rise in SD Gliscor Shedinja is getting even better. But if you're not convinced by that alone heres more in-depth about what Shedinja does:

Tapu Lele is a huge threat to Mega Sableye stalls, and Shedinja walls it completely and threatens the 2hko with X-Scissor if Lele doesn't have HP Fire. Even with HP fire, if its a specs/scarf set (which it usually is if HP Fire), it won't matter when Lele's locked into Moonblast/Psyshock/Psychic. And stall doesnt have trouble scouting for this most of the time, regen mons/chansey can soak up damage and protect isn't a rarity on stall. Obviously Shedinja isn't the only mon that beats Lele (@ Mew) but Shedinja has benefits that differentiate it from Mew in that regard- Shedinja having 1 HP means it literally can't be worn down over the course of the match, so the game plan of "chip down the stall player's specs Lele check until its in range of getting 2hkod" is off the table.

Gliscor is worth noting not because its especially problematic for stall- stall has trouble touching it, but it also can't really touch stall in return- but its rise in usage, especially the SD set, just makes a pokemon that can switch in and completely wall it that much better. Its especially worth noting that the Gliscor/Reuniclus core gets eaten alive by Shedinja, with both members giving it a free switch in and forcing it out. Toxic on Gliscor can be a problem but its not the hardest thing to scout for, usually you should switch into something like Skarm or your own Gliscor to catch a Toxic or Defog away rocks before you know the set anyways. But yeah Shed shits on Gliscor and as long as Gliscor's good Shed's gonna be good too to counter it.

Tapu Fini is one of the biggest headaches for stall imo, Misty Terrain blocking Toxic for it and its teammates along with the combination of Taunt/Nature's Madness to punish switches is really rough to deal with. Enter Shedinja, who is immune to everything Tapu Fini runs. Shedinja is in kind of an awkward spot vis a vis Fini where Taunt stops you from Swords Dancing, which means youre relying on the 14-17% of Shadow Sneak to 9hko Fini. More realistically, Fini Taunts and switches out, letting you get a bit of chip in on whatever switches out.

Manaphy is a big part of why Shedinja got popular during OLT, with its Tail Glow+Rest+Waterium Z+Psychic set on rain being able to dismantle stall pretty easily. Shedinja puts a stop to that, walling Manaphy and threatening to turn it into setup bait. But beyond that, Shedinja is the last puzzle piece along with Sableye and Chansey that makes that particular stall build have a really solid rain matchup. Shedinja easily switches into and walls Manaphy and Swampert (or Kingdra or Koko, depending on the team), Chansey switches into and walls Greninja, and Sableye switches into and walls Ferrothorn. These 3 aren't amazing vs Torn/Pelipper (Shed can technically counter Pelipper but you really don't want to risk taking a surprise Hurricane when you need Shed for Mana+Pert), but you have 3 more team slots that can cover those. But yeah overall Shedinja makes stall really safe against rain, in spite of Manaphy otherwise destroying it.

Theres a bunch of other stuff that Shedinja counters but its usually contingent on that pokemon not having a given move so I don't want to go as in-depth on those: pokemon like non-Stone Edge/Fly Lando, non-Toxic Toxapex, non-HP Fire Magearna, non-Knock Off Kartana, non-Knock Off/Fire Fang Mega Mawile (even if its sucker punch, you just burn it and watch it get chipped to death while clicking SD/Wisp), non-Heat Wave Zapdos, non-Wisp/Toxic Rotom-W, non-Stone Edge Bulu, non-Fire Blast Clef, non-HP Fire Mega Latios, non-Knock Off Mega Scizor... the list goes on. Shedinja is just a very solid blanket check to a lot of dangerous mons for stall, and stall teams that are built to support it by keeping hazards off the field and soaking up damage from pokemon that threaten it (ttar, gren, blace, torn, etc) are really rewarded for it.

Obligatory Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-980350523 Shedinja gets a free switch into and walls Gliscor and Lele whenever they come in, forcing them out and getting chip on whatever switches in (usually Heatran)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-980581994 Shedinja is able to wall and force out Fini and Gliscor until it sets up to +6 on them and sweeps
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-980593057 this ones really short (rip) but it shows how sableye+pex+sableye+chansey are able to switch around ferrothorn and fini and make the opponent waste pp super easily
also like. shedinja's OLT success shows how good it is. shed for C
I'm hella hype someone finally nommed this. It takes some support but b/c of it's ability you can make it such that it literally cannot be touched and ur win condition. On stall this can be so goddamn annoying and it forces uncertainty on your oppositions side - which is always good; deceit's the name of the game boys. Just make sure you can run some weather/status/defog support depending on ur item, it cannot be touched otherwise itll go down, which is the downside. I really wish we could do dry baton pass as well but it's all good.
 
I would love Shedinja to be viable, because it can check big threats to stall like cm Keldeo, Kommo-o, and pain split Magearna, BUT there is just too much holding it back, and it can't make measures to deal with all of its problems. Sash allows you to scout for potential coverage moves once per battle, but then you can't use protective pads for stuff like Garchomp and Ferrothorn. You also lose to sand without safety goggles, and no item can protect Shedinja from pursuit (except sash once, but you'll almost certainly get trapped again, and if its Tyranitar you drop to sand anyway).

You can get some wins with a Shedinja team, perhaps sweep with it low ladder, and if you're really good, you can get high ladder with it (I do believe there is an old RMT stall team that peaked fairly high). However, at the end of the day, Shedinja is more of a burden than a boon. The only way to fit it on a team is to have it check what the rest of your team can't, so if it faints, you're screwed. It's susceptible to too much, and the threat of hazards relegates it to stall. Stall teams can provide lots of support for Shedinja, but in turn demand support from Shedinja. So again, if it faints to stray burn/poison, sand etc., the whole team folds.
 
I would love Shedinja to be viable, because it can check big threats to stall like cm Keldeo, Kommo-o, and pain split Magearna, BUT there is just too much holding it back, and it can't make measures to deal with all of its problems. Sash allows you to scout for potential coverage moves once per battle, but then you can't use protective pads for stuff like Garchomp and Ferrothorn. You also lose to sand without safety goggles, and no item can protect Shedinja from pursuit (except sash once, but you'll almost certainly get trapped again, and if its Tyranitar you drop to sand anyway).

You can get some wins with a Shedinja team, perhaps sweep with it low ladder, and if you're really good, you can get high ladder with it (I do believe there is an old RMT stall team that peaked fairly high). However, at the end of the day, Shedinja is more of a burden than a boon. The only way to fit it on a team is to have it check what the rest of your team can't, so if it faints, you're screwed. It's susceptible to too much, and the threat of hazards relegates it to stall. Stall teams can provide lots of support for Shedinja, but in turn demand support from Shedinja. So again, if it faints to stray burn/poison, sand etc., the whole team folds.
if I take a shedinja team to lets say... 1900 with it consistently doing work. will u redact your statement?
 
if I take a shedinja team to lets say... 1900 with it consistently doing work. will u redact your statement?
No. Like I said, you can get high ladder with a Shedinja team, but that's true with pretty much any other mon if the rest of your team is good and you're a good player. Shedinja doesn't check anything other Pokemon can't check, it requires heavy support, and it straight up loses in certain MUs even with this support (pursuit, sand, etc.).
 
Sash allows you to scout for potential coverage moves once per battle, but then you can't use protective pads for stuff like Garchomp and Ferrothorn. You also lose to sand without safety goggles, and no item can protect Shedinja from pursuit (except sash once, but you'll almost certainly get trapped again, and if its Tyranitar you drop to sand anyway).
You're vastly overestimating the detriment of item choice here lmao. Shedinja being weak to weather + rough skin/iron barbs isn't a death sentence, it just means you're forced to play more smartly with it... if they have a Ferrothorn/Garchomp/Helmet Lando/Helmet Zapdos in the back when you have Shedinja in it just means you can't click X-Scissor freely which tbh. Not only would you not do that anyways since getting a burn on all 4 of those pokemon is infinitely better than getting a tiny amount of chip damage, and considering that those pokemon all force Shed out anyways it pretty much doesn't change the matchup at all. As for Ttar yeah it smashes Shed with Pursuit and sand but you pretty much just have to be smart with double switching and teambuilding in that regard. Its a headache for Shed stall admittedly but theres no stall team that beats everything and Shed's strengths more than make up for that weakness imo.

The only way to fit it on a team is to have it check what the rest of your team can't, so if it faints, you're screwed. It's susceptible to too much, and the threat of hazards relegates it to stall. Stall teams can provide lots of support for Shedinja, but in turn demand support from Shedinja. So again, if it faints to stray burn/poison, sand etc., the whole team folds.
This is also a pretty ridiculous statement, Shedinja's good bc of its unique ability to check a bunch of stall threats but there's nothing to say that it has to be the only thing on your team that can check those pokemon, especially when stall is already full of so much role compression. Like out of the pokemon I mentioned in the post above that its important for Shedinja to beat, Mew also beats Lele, Skarmory also beats Gliscor, Pyukumuku also beats Manaphy, Zapdos also beats Fini, etc etc... if Shedinja drops its not like you suddenly lose, ideally you'll have built your team to have multiple answers to threats... like a good stall team should. And before you say something like "why not play Mew/Skarm/Zapdos/Pyuk/etc instead" Shedinja is unique in that it offers unique role compression, there's no other pokemon that can just as effectively handle this specific combination of setup sweepers, specific wallbreakers and stallbreakers with only one teamslot. Shed for C
 
No. Like I said, you can get high ladder with a Shedinja team, but that's true with pretty much any other mon if the rest of your team is good and you're a good player. Shedinja doesn't check anything other Pokemon can't check, it requires heavy support, and it straight up loses in certain MUs even with this support (pursuit, sand, etc.).
I don't see why the heavy support thing really matters when Shedinja can only be used on one sort of team anyway, which is a style that directly caters to the needs of Shedinja. You can obviously get high on the ladder with essentially any pokemon, but we're talking about a pokemon that is actually used at high ladder (and a lot in OLT), and not as a completely meme.

Tbh, to me Shedinja is always the same. It could never be a top tier pokemon and it can never be fully unviable because of its unique role compression for stall. So really it's just a matter of whether the meta is favourable enough for it to be picked over other, less volatile niche stall picks. At least for now, in the wake of OLT and general meta trends, I think it is. I'd even argue it is better than a lot of currently ranked niche stall picks, but I don't even have to go that far. If those guys are ranked, then Shedinja should be too, given its recent success.

Admittedly, it is nowhere near as good as it was during Wonder Trio days, and not being able to dry pass hurts a lot. Nonetheless, it still finds its way on pretty damn good stall teams, has genuinely viable options with its item choice and the fact that it's still around despite indirect and direct hits to its viability is a testament to how uniquely potent its role is.
 
RANK CLOYSTER -- C+ or B-
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(sweeper cloyster is bad; this ranking is for efficacy of it's use as an anti-lead.)

Why:
  • Cloyster criminally underrated as a lead/anti-lead
  • Denies hazards vs almost everything, esp common lead setters like lando, exca, diancie, chomp
  • Ice is not prepared for well on most teams. puts a dent in the opposing magearna/fini
  • Faster than the scarf meta (only serp and hawlucha is faster) -- pita for rain
  • Pretty easily breaks open the bulky cores w/ like gliscor and mega latis that people like for some reason
  • The stuff in C/C- is single-niche stuff. Cloyster has a place on any mildly offensive team that wants to keep hazards off at T1 and wants to apply pressure early, and it does that very well
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rapid Spin
- Icicle Spear
- Doesn't matter (spikes/shard/rockblast/explosion)

just smash and kill them. or spin. you have sash. doesnt matter

+2 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 145-175 (48.1 - 58.1%) -- approx. 97.3% chance to 2HKO
nice hardswitch
+2 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 260-315 (100.3 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
no
but you should be jolly imo.

Replays because no one here has an imagination
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-969923394
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-970005327
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-969932535

(scarf Mag is also some BS that should make it stay S, but that's another story)
 
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Breloom
Unranked -> C-

Seeing that C is so filled with niche pokémon, I was surprised to see that Breloom wasn't in that list of niche mons so I decided to give Poison Heal Breloom a try.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 236 HP / 88 Atk / 88 Def / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Bulk Up

This set can take advantage of the prevalence of Landorus-T and other bulky pokémon that lack damage output and start breaking. It takes advantage of the lack of ghost types in the OU metagame to run a strong fighting STAB move, but this means that it has an abysmal Mega Sableye Stall matchup, being able to only soak hits and status.

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. +1 236 HP / 88 Def Breloom: 63-75 (19.6 - 23.4%) -- possible 8HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Landorus-Therian U-turn vs. +1 236 HP / 88 Def Breloom: 60-71 (18.7 - 22.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0- SpA Landorus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 124-146 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- 60.1% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. +1 236 HP / 88 Def Breloom: 67-79 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Poison Heal

This means that after a single bulk up, it's able to keep its substitute against some threats (mostly earthquake users and passive pokémon) and keep boosting, and even if the Landorus-T is running hidden power ice, Breloom can tank a couple of them before using Spore to start setting up. However, it can't deal with Flyinium Z, but it's not the more common set anyways. Once it's behind a substitute, it can start punching massive holes on enemy teams without a ghost type or a sturdy fighting resist, and even most of them fear the looming threat of Spore.

88+ Atk Breloom Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 105-124 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- 73.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 88+ Atk Breloom Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 156-185 (40.8 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 88+ Atk Breloom Focus Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 316-373 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+1 88+ Atk Breloom Focus Punch vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor-Mega: 240-283 (69.9 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 88+ Atk Breloom Focus Punch vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 144-170 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Consider Zapdos won't be allowed to use Roost well against it since it will lose the fighting resist)

There are more sets that Breloom can run, such as offensive Technician or even other Poison heal sets that check other threats such as Ash Greninja while being an offensive Spore user, even though there are way better grass types for that role.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 236 HP / 128 SpD Breloom: 144-169 (45 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

However, Breloom is still very matchup reliant, needs to be very careful on who it wants to put to sleep and relies on being unpredictable and unprepared for, so I wouldn't rank it very high.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-984116050 Breloom takes advantage of a Haze-less Toxapex and a Landorus-T.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-984250215 Breloom breaks a whole team on its own
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-984245107 (Starts a turn 24) Breloom doesn't allow Tapu Fini in due to the possibility of a grass STAB
 
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I really don't want to give Breloom any more negative attention (I love the little thing, I really do), but it's been proven time and time again why it doesn't belong in OU.

Answer me this Dapesa, what does Breloom do that the other Grass-Types and Fighting-Types don't that set it apart?

Spore and Focus Punch on paper are decent options (in previous Generations, it was successful), but there are numerous issues with the strategy now.

1. Terrain. Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko both set up terrain that prevent its primary move, Spore, from being used.

2. There are Grass-Types that can handle Breloom 1v1 like Tangrowth and Mega Venusaur, while Ferrothorn and Kartana can be used with proper prediction to nullify Spore and bait the Fighting-Type move.

3. Once Spore is used up, Breloom doesn't have any easy way back into battle if forced out until either the opponent's sleeping Pokemon wakes up or you attempt a Revenge Kill (I would say switch into Leech Seed, but Breloom has no business switching into the Grass-Types that do this, maybe short of Ferrothorn).

4. Breloom isn't bulky. Sure it can tank a resisted hit, but not much else. The one plus it has against Kartana is being a bit more Specially Bulky, but it's not worth a significant drop in both Speed and Attack.

5. What Mega Scizor is running 0 Attack IVs? I know this doesn't count, but I can't let that one go. Plus, your Defensive Calcs prove nothing since it resists Ground already; why not post relevant Calcs against Pokemon Breloom can stop but its competition might have problems with?

The real 5. If Breloom is incredibly match-up reliant, what's stopping a trainer from using something more consistent? If it's due to the team, it might need a rebuild, not a struggling Pokemon.

6. You bring up the potential of Breloom checking Ash Greninja. Firstly, it doesn't get Poison Heal immediately, it takes a turn. Second, the chances of surviving both Hydro Pumps are incredibly low, even with the chance of one missing. Finally, Ice Beam exists. It's not reliable in the slightest when it comes to its ability to check Ash-G.

There are more reasons why Breloom isn't viable in OU, but I'm currently busy. Somebody else will likely go into more detail.
 
1- Breloom does have poor matchup against all the Tapus, thats just a fact.

2- It also does pretty poorly against most grass types (however this specific set sets up on Ferrothorn, I forgot to mention it in the post). However, if the enemy isn't careful enough, they might be too weakened for them to check Breloom. Also, Breloom can act as a very soft check to Scarf Kartana on the resisted hits.

3- That's already covered in the original post, Breloom really needs to think about when it should use spore. As I said, it's definitely not a reliable pokémon that will be worth using every game, but it can sometimes come again and again.

4- It has some useful resistances, which are taken advantage in that set.

5- Thats just standard Mega Scizor. They usually run Swords Dance to make up for the lack of attack investment, but doing that in the face of a Breloom behind substitute won't end up well. Also, as for the calc Breloom deals with Rockium Z Landorus while grass types not named Kartana or Ferrothorn have trouble with it, but these dislike taking Earthquakes.

6- Gliscor is considered a Heatran check too, but Gliscor also relies on Poison Heal being already activated and Heatran not being Z-move. Same goes for a SpDef Breloom against unevolved Ash Greninja. It can relieve some pressure for the main checks, but I already stated that other grass types do that job much better and as main checks, not secondary checks. For example, you could change the spread of the Breloom i used to 236 HP / 36 Atk / 12 Def / 128 SpD / 96 Spe and an Impish nature to allow Breloom to be an Ash Greninja 1-time check at the cost of dealing less damage.

I'm aware that Breloom is pretty bad in the current meta, that's why I put it in C-. However, I don't think it's ability to threaten most pokémon with the threat of Spore + good damage output should be overlooked either. I do understand that the fact that it's not ranked is probably because of its unreliability and matchup-dependency and I'm fine with that. However, when it works it really does work, that's why I wanted to see what people have to say about Breloom being in the lowest rank in OU viability rankings.
 
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Cloyster-->C+ or B-: Somewhat Disagree

Your post convinced me that maybe adding Cloyster to the vr isn't a bad idea, in theory it might be the best Anti-Lead dedicated Lead, and as showed on your replays, it can put some work setting up Spikes, Spinning, breaking Focus Sashes with Multi-Hitting Moves, pressuring the opponent...
Said that, i do think that you nommed Cloyster too high, C seems much more appropiate than what ranks you suggested, C+ is even debatable, but B-? Is Cloyster really on the same level as Zard Y, Ditto, and Kommo-o? I don't think so, that thing seems matchup fishy, and might rely on a non-optimal lead from your opponent, on this replay that you shared(https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-970005327) Toxapex was one of the worst lead options coming from your opponents part, since it allowed your Cloyster to set 3 layes of spikes, if he went Lop the Cloyster would just get Faked Out into HJK, Lop destroys all Suicide Leads besides Ribombee, including Cloyster. if he had went into Mage, he could have just Volt-Switched out into Pex, for example and killed that pesky Cloyster, so i don't think that replays is reallyh valid(the others are).
Cloyster also gets burnt by Rotom-Wash, Taunted or Magma Stormed by Heatran(if not a water STAB variant), Tornadus can also Taunt it predicting Shell Smash(it does risk a K.O tho), Mage might take a lot from boosted Liquidation or Explosion, but it does prevent Cloyster from getting any hazards or damage by Volt-Switching out into something else (preferrably with priority), Skarm can Taunt it, Whirlwind it, and Defog the Spikes away.
In general, I might get convinced that Cloyster is C+, but B- is just wayyy too much. I think i'm even using this mon to see if it is really that good.



Shedinja--> C- Agree

Shedinja has enough of a niche on Stall to be ranked C-, there are so many mons on that rank with minimal niches, and that are less relevant than Shedinja, that I even think adding it to C could be an option. OLT has proven that Shed is viable, considering it was pretty popular on ladder at the time, and I don't really think serious players would've used Shedinja at that time if it was so unviable.
I don't have much to add to the discussion, since other people on the thread have already said what I think are the main arguments to support Shedinja's addition to the VR.




Mega-Latias--> A+ Agree

Latias has been used a lot on both OLT(15th most used) and SSD(13th most used as of the 5th round), and has proven to be effective as a popular pick on Balanced and Semi-Stall teams. Being able to check threats like Hawlucha, non-Toxic Heatran, Landorus, Gliscor, which is rising in popularity, and even Mega-Medicham to a certain point, since it can get in on a HJK or Zen Headbutt, and threaten MMedi w Psychic STAB. Besides it's incredible defensive utility, Latias can also be a threatening sweeper with Calm Mind, or be a solid Defogger. Considering MLati's popularity and utility on defensively oriented team, I personally think it should be ranked A+.
Also, I agree with what Guardsweeper said:

Guardsweeper said:


Mega Latias A >>> A+ [Has been the best Psychic type in Tour for a while, definitely more relevant than Mega Zam]

MLati is def more relevant than Mega Zam



Breloom-->C- Agree

I'm not even gonna talk much about this nom, since I already made like, 4 posts about Breloom, but I do think Loom is a viable mon, and that it should be added on the vr, either to C- or C, SubPunch+Spore is an incredible combo. Loom isn't just outclassed by every other grass type in OU like other people said(check my previous posts for explanaiton), and it does have its own unique traits that make it worth running. Also, both Fini and Koko dont enjoy taking Focus Punches to the face, so although their terrains annoy Breloom, it's really not like they are so bad for Breloom's viability as other people seem to think they are, one more thing i'd like to talk about is that I don't particularly think Breloom is matchup reliant, it does really shine on better mus, but thats what happens with basically all mons in OU.
Again, i won't say much bc I've already said the main arguments supporting Breloom's rise, and also because i'm kinda tired of this discussion lol.
Anyways, i do have a replay from yesterday(28/09) that I want to share, since, even tho my opponent didn't play optimally, he did have a Tapu Fini, which i've heard people say negated Breloom on a match, like TTar would negate Blace. Also, it's a Loom 6-0, and it kinda shows what Breloom does best.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-983772072





Now for my own nom:
Zygarde-10%-->UR

I never understood why Zydog was added to the vr in the first place. It is extremely frail, has mediocre attack stats, and its only redeeming trait is its speed, there are really no niches Zyg accomplishes on this tier, yeah hitting flying types with Ground STAB is nice, but Garchomp can hit them too, just not with Ground moves, while being much bulkier, stronger, and overall more viable. Yeah, speed is nice, in fact outspeeding all Dragon in the tier and hitting them back with super effective damage is pretty incredible, but your only physical dragon STABs are Outrage and Dragon Tail, Outrage locks you into a Dragon type move in a meta full of fairies and DTail is super weak, so it doesnt even OHKO Chomp or MLati@s.
I don't even have much to say about this mon, Zydog is just plain bad, Garchomp breaks better, Scarf Lando can clean better, and Drill sweeps better.
100 Atk is not that good of an Attack Stat, forcing Zygarde to run Choice Band, or a set-up set to do any damage, considering Zydog's non-existent bulk, the only ways it can set a Dragon Dance up is either using screens, which requires a lot of team support, or by forcing a switch, which, it isn't going to do a lot of times, and even then, walling a +1 Zygarde-10% isn't hard. Banded does give you immediate power, but it locks Zygarde into one move, which makes it so much easier to defend against. Other mons can afford to take these penalties when running CB, but that's because they're actually good.
 
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Ruft

You're boned
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Won OST Predictions
:sm/skarmory:

Skarmory: C+ to B or higher


Lately, Skarmory manages to find itself on a lot of bulkier teams as it can check current top threats like Kartana and Swords Dance Gliscor and force them out with Whirlwind or Counter.

I couldn't say it better than Mellow did in in the Skarmory Facebook Spotlight, so I'll quote him here:
After being overshadowed by Celesteela for the entirety of USM OU, Skarmory has finally come into its own in the tier. It has recently seen a large influx in usage on bulky balance and stall teams, as it can check some very prevalent threats to those archetypes, such as Kartana, Swords Dance Gliscor, Choice Band Tapu Bulu, and Excadrill. Skarmory is also a great Spikes setter thanks to the large number of switch-in opportunities it can provide with its fantastic defensive typing and physical bulk. As far as teammates go, nothing can top Chansey; it's a fantastic blanket check to specially offensive Pokemon that Skarmory struggles with like Ash-Greninja, Mega Alakazam, Rotom-W, and Volcarona while also being able to set up Stealth Rock and form a hazard stacking core alongside Skarmory.
Balance and semi-stall seem to be doing much better than full stall right now (because of the popularity of Swords Dance Gliscor, Mega Latias, Reuniclus, Manaphy, etc.), which is why I think that Skarmory (which appears on a range of bulky team archetypes) is much better than most of if not all the Pokémon in B-, which is where the full stall Pokémon reside (Alomomola, Pyukumuku and Quagsire, which barely see tournament usage). I believe it's better than most of B rank too, which matches its tournament usage (in both SSD and OLT).
 
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I really don't want to give Breloom any more negative attention (I love the little thing, I really do), but it's been proven time and time again why it doesn't belong in OU.

Answer me this Dapesa, what does Breloom do that the other Grass-Types and Fighting-Types don't that set it apart?

Spore and Focus Punch on paper are decent options (in previous Generations, it was successful), but there are numerous issues with the strategy now.

1. Terrain. Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko both set up terrain that prevent its primary move, Spore, from being used.

2. There are Grass-Types that can handle Breloom 1v1 like Tangrowth and Mega Venusaur, while Ferrothorn and Kartana can be used with proper prediction to nullify Spore and bait the Fighting-Type move.

3. Once Spore is used up, Breloom doesn't have any easy way back into battle if forced out until either the opponent's sleeping Pokemon wakes up or you attempt a Revenge Kill (I would say switch into Leech Seed, but Breloom has no business switching into the Grass-Types that do this, maybe short of Ferrothorn).

4. Breloom isn't bulky. Sure it can tank a resisted hit, but not much else. The one plus it has against Kartana is being a bit more Specially Bulky, but it's not worth a significant drop in both Speed and Attack.

5. What Mega Scizor is running 0 Attack IVs? I know this doesn't count, but I can't let that one go. Plus, your Defensive Calcs prove nothing since it resists Ground already; why not post relevant Calcs against Pokemon Breloom can stop but its competition might have problems with?

The real 5. If Breloom is incredibly match-up reliant, what's stopping a trainer from using something more consistent? If it's due to the team, it might need a rebuild, not a struggling Pokemon.

6. You bring up the potential of Breloom checking Ash Greninja. Firstly, it doesn't get Poison Heal immediately, it takes a turn. Second, the chances of surviving both Hydro Pumps are incredibly low, even with the chance of one missing. Finally, Ice Beam exists. It's not reliable in the slightest when it comes to its ability to check Ash-G.

There are more reasons why Breloom isn't viable in OU, but I'm currently busy. Somebody else will likely go into more detail.
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 16 Def Tapu Fini: 453-546 (132 - 159.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery

1- Breloom does have poor matchup against all the Tapus, thats just a fact.

2- It also does pretty poorly against most grass types (however this specific set beats Ferrothorn, I forgot to mention it in the post). However, if the enemy isn't careful enough, they might be too weakened for them to check Breloom. Also, Breloom can act as a very soft check to Scarf Kartana on the resisted hits.

3- That's already covered in the original post, Breloom really needs to think about when it should use spore. As I said, it's definitely not a reliable pokémon that will be worth using every game, but it can sometimes come again and again.

4- It has some useful resistances, which are taken advantage in that set.

5- Thats just standard Mega Scizor. They usually run Swords Dance to make up for the lack of attack investment, but doing that in the face of a Breloom behind substitute won't end up well. Also, as for the calc Breloom deals with Rockium Z Landorus while grass types not named Kartana or Ferrothorn have trouble with it.

6- Gliscor is considered a Heatran check too, but Gliscor also relies on Poison Heal being already activated and Heatran not being Z-move. Same goes for a SpDef Breloom against unevolved Ash Greninja. It can relieve some pressure for the main checks, but I already stated that other grass types do that job much better and as main checks, not secondary checks. For example, you could change the spread of the Breloom i used to 236 HP / 36 Atk / 12 Def / 128 SpD / 96 Spe and an Impish nature to allow Breloom to be an Ash Greninja 1-time check at the cost of dealing less damage.

I'm aware that Breloom is pretty bad in the current meta, that's why I put it in C-. However, I don't think it's ability to threaten most pokémon with the threat of Spore + good damage output should be overlooked either. I do understand that the fact that it's not ranked is probably because of its unreliability and matchup-dependency and I'm fine with that. However, when it works it really does work, that's why I wanted to see what people have to say about Breloom being in the lowest rank in OU viability rankings.


While I personally don't care for the shroom saying that it doesnt deserve to be in ou is severely misinformed. In fact I'd say it deserves to be in something like B-, the shroom has versatility and usefulness.

Since you very helpfully outlined all you claims in a linearly fashion let's address them one by one (some will help ur point D that's why you're mentioned)

"1- Breloom does have poor matchup against all the Tapus, thats just a fact. "

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 16 Def Tapu Fini: 453-546 (132 - 159.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Iron Tail vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 278-328 (92 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 327-390 (116.3 - 138.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
koko obviously okoed not putting that there

all tapus can ko back depending on the set and u outspeed half of them so I wouldnt call this a poor match up. in fact if ur sash u beat half of them with spore


"2- It also does pretty poorly against most grass types (however this specific set beats Ferrothorn, I forgot to mention it in the post). However, if the enemy isn't careful enough, they might be too weakened for them to check Breloom. Also, Breloom can act as a very soft check to Scarf Kartana on the resisted hits."
Nothing scarf kart (unboosted) can do can ko other than giga impact while u can ko pretty easily with mach or force palm. It def does do poorly against mega venu (not ferro) and it 2hkos serp, u shoudlnt try and take on a tangrowth but yes it does do poorly against that unless u want to sd
because

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Force Palm vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tangrowth: 343-406 (85.1 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
I wouldnt call that a poor match up.


"3- Once Spore is used up, Breloom doesn't have any easy way back into battle if forced out until either the opponent's sleeping Pokemon wakes up or you attempt a Revenge Kill (I would say switch into Leech Seed, but Breloom has no business switching into the Grass-Types that do this, maybe short of Ferrothorn)."

Idk why you pointed this out... yes you have to think about the moves you choose idk why you posted this

4- "It has some useful resistances, which are taken advantage in that set."
Plus it's bulky enough


5 - D got it on this one

6 - "You bring up the potential of Breloom checking Ash Greninja. Firstly, it doesn't get Poison Heal immediately, it takes a turn. Second, the chances of surviving both Hydro Pumps are incredibly low, even with the chance of one missing. Finally, Ice Beam exists. It's not reliable in the slightest when it comes to its ability to check Ash-G."

Technician mach okoes you dont need ph, but if run ph ash gren is used moreso for late game. loom hits pretty hard so it's pretty easy to get the matchup thats not in a choice ice beam. Plus u have mach
 
Im getting confused about the breloom discussion. I thought its all about the sub punch set which obviously has a fair amount of problems against the tapus (as it simply cannot afford to run bulled seed and SD and Iron tail or max attack). And even if its running these moves setting up will be kinda hard with it being easily worn down (im assuming a set with 3/4 moves or SD and LO and technican), having no heal and btw not enough space for seed, tail, mach and focus and spore and SD).
As Long as there is a fini or Koko Alive they can block spore for like 5 turns so it clearly has a Bad mach up against them lol.
 
Im getting confused about the breloom discussion. I thought its all about the sub punch set which obviously has a fair amount of problems against the tapus (as it simply cannot afford to run bulled seed and SD and Iron tail or max attack). And even if its running these moves setting up will be kinda hard with it being easily worn down (im assuming a set with 3/4 moves or SD and LO and technican), having no heal and btw not enough space for seed, tail, mach and focus and spore and SD).
As Long as there is a fini or Koko Alive they can block spore for like 5 turns so it clearly has a Bad mach up against them lol.
Thunder Pwoell was referring to a completely different set that lures and kills Tapus. The set I imagine they would be using is this one:

Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Iron Tail / Swords Dance / Thunder Punch / Rock Tomb

Enough speed to outspeed specs Pelipper and deffensive Rotom-Wash. The 40 hp maximizes bulk to make it easier to switch in on resisted hits, notably allowing it to always survive Ash Greninja's Hydro pump and having a high chance to survive if Stealth rocks are up. After Rock Tomb it will outspeed 107s and below. 4 more points can be put into Speed to also outspeed Keldeo.
Otherwise, a 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe spread can also be used, allowing Breloom to survive 2 Hidden Power ice from deffensive Landorus-T after Stealth rocks damage most of the time while still outspeeding Mega Mawile and Azumarill. After Rock Tomb it will outspeed base 86s and below, including Zapdos.
If running Rock Tomb, you can opt for a 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe spread that will allow to outspeed up to base 113s on the next turn. However, the lack of bulk investment will make it even harder to switch in.

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 156-186 (40.8 - 48.6%) -- approx. 4.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 281-333 (77.6 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 83-99 (22.9 - 27.3%) -- 56.1% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 146-173 (47.8 - 56.7%) -- 35.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 147-173 (48.1 - 56.7%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 221-265 (85.3 - 102.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 218-260 (61.9 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 99-117 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Diancie-Mega: 144-172 (59.7 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 244 HP / 52 Def Gliscor: 204-246 (57.9 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 28 Def Celesteela: 221-263 (55.6 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 139-164 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 268-320 (69.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 229-270 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Sableye-Mega: 213-258 (70.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 374-439 (53.2 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 225-273 (57.1 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This means that between the threat of Spore and its damage output, it can threaten a lot of different pokémon. Most of the pokémon that can absorb status won't be able to switch into Breloom's attacks, and most of the pokémon that can deffensively check it won't appreciate Spore,
with the exception of Mega Venusaur being an exceptionally good counter. Looking at the calcs, I see Breloom has a good matchup against Stall especially with the Swords Dance set if it can avoid status, since there's no Unaware user that doesn't get 2HKOed by Bullet Seed. Frail offensive pokémon need to be very careful of its strong Mach Punch and Rock Tomb too, so it's not completely dead weight against more offensive builds.

However, Technician Breloom struggles switching in, so it can probably only be effectively used in VoltTurn cores, which can appreciate its ability to put threats to sleep and weaken ground types. Both Technician and Poison Heal Breloom struggle with 4 moveslot syndrome since its utility is very good but it's coverage is also necessary, so a single set won't offensively threaten every major threat, but spore somewhat relieves it with its utility.

Both Technician Breloom and Poison Heal Breloom must be taken care of in slightly different ways, and its 4 moveslot syndrome, while a curse, can also allow Breloom to bluff a move it doesn't have, so Breloom is definitely not a one-dimensional pokémon. The 50/50s it generates with Spore/Attacking also help Breloom a lot, but they also mean Breloom can sometimes fall short. Breloom relies mostly on having good matchups against enemy teams and on luck, since both the sleep turns and the number of times that Bullet seed hits can change, but that doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate threat in the OU metagame.

Edits: silly grammar mistakes.
 
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51E1835E-9A7F-41C1-BC9F-16D64F4B225E.png
Ditto to B+
660FBB70-B3A5-4B8C-A78B-2F6037C13660.png


A68D0B0F-60AB-41DF-9F7A-ED957C8A6A31.gif

Ditto provides so much for bulky teams, being able to scout movesets, trap Magnezone, and even reverse sweep a team by transforming into a DD Gyarados, TailGlow Manaphy, SG Mag, etc. Stall teams and balance, fatter balance to be specific, could sometimes really benefit from this little blob. He can provide so much utility for a team, which is why I think he should be B+
 
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Altaria-Mega: Unranked to C-

Altaria has always been a mediocre pokemon, but in this current meta, we had the rise of Kommo-o in all his versions, and also the Rise of Weather, Rain and Sun, and Altaria puts on work on this styles cause of his bulk and typing, I don't think a DD set is any good, but Defensive versions can put work against a lot of teams

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Slam
- Roost
- Toxic / Heal Bell / Defog / Haze / Flamethrower
- Earthquake / Flamethrower / Ice Beam

Max Defense so it can take on stuff like Lopunny or Swampert, also with Toxic or Haze this can check most versions of Volcarona, a menace for a lot of teams in the current meta, I think this meta is really favorable rn for this mon while still having problems, mostly because stuff like LO Clefable and Gliscor (w/o Ice Beam) switching in for free against Alt and having the 4mss syndrome, and being really weak to steel types, especially Magearna, and really weak to Hazards, so even if he runs Defog by his own is recommendable to run another Defog/Spinner alongside him, also Checking both Zards is a really good thing to have right now to have considering they are rising.

Against rain, gives me a decent switch in to Pert and a backup plan for Gren if Gastro got flinched

Against HO, puts work against Gyarados and Lucha

maybe I can update later with more replays
 
RG Moti said:
Altaria-Mega: Unranked to C-

Altaria has always been a mediocre pokemon, but in this current meta, we had the rise of Kommo-o in all his versions, and also the Rise of Weather, Rain and Sun, and Altaria puts on work on this styles cause of his bulk and typing, I don't think a DD set is any good, but Defensive versions can put work against a lot of teams

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Slam
- Roost
- Toxic / Heal Bell / Defog / Haze / Flamethrower
- Earthquake / Flamethrower / Ice Beam

Max Defense so it can take on stuff like Lopunny or Swampert, also with Toxic or Haze this can check most versions of Volcarona, a menace for a lot of teams in the current meta, I think this meta is really favorable rn for this mon while still having problems, mostly because stuff like LO Clefable and Gliscor (w/o Ice Beam) switching in for free against Alt and having the 4mss syndrome, and being really weak to steel types, especially Magearna, and really weak to Hazards, so even if he runs Defog by his own is recommendable to run another Defog/Spinner alongside him, also Checking both Zards is a really good thing to have right now to have considering they are rising.
I do not see what altaria brings to the table, it has one set that I'd even call usable which is 2 attacks, dd and roost, which gets walled by celesteela and other mons that resist Return while also handling eq.

As a defensive wall, it is outshined by toxapex, which both does similar things to it, like walling all kommo-o sets (z clang into +1 tpunch has a very small chance of ohkoingthe spdef set). Another problem with it is that it doesn't do well against defensive teams at all, since it just gets statused and doesn't fight back. It is incredibly passive, while also taking up a mega slot.

Kommo doesn't actualy give altaria a free switch, as both the z clanging scales set and spdef set (why) can cripple it through poison jab (2hkos 68% of the time and can poison) or toxic (RIP).

Sun is basically non existant so I'll just go over rain. Non evolved specs rain boosted hydro 2hkos after rocks, while pert just wastes roosts, also, since ice punch has a small freeze chance, you will eventually loose if you keep on clicking roost. Pelipper just U-turns, torns hurricane can 2hko and the filler (azu, mana, kingdra, koko etc) can all hurt it through coverage.

And lastly, the replays, honestly, the guys you fought basically sacked their win cons very early on (the rain guy switched in a weakened pert on a torn hurricane turn 18, meanwhile the other guy sacked his mega mawile turn 12). You should really update the replays with some better ones.

Tl;dr It's terrible as a defensive mon while taking up a mega slot.
 
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As a defensive wall, it is outshined by toxapex, which both does similar things to it, like walling all kommo-o sets (z clang into +1 tpunch has a very small chance of ohkoingthe spdef set). Another problem with it is that it doesn't do well against defensive teams at all, since it just gets statused and doesn't fight back. It is incredibly passive, while also taking up a mega slot.

Kommo doesn't actualy give altaria a free switch, as both the z clanging scales set and spdef set (why) can cripple it through poison jab (2hkos 68% of the time and can poison) or toxic (RIP).
Just gonna point out here, pex does definitely not wall all Kommo sets, BD Tpunch beats it, which is the only set alt is a good answer to. Also comparing the 2 is odd to me, they don't really fill the same roles outside of both being gren checks and SSIs for kommo.

So this post isn't just a useless nitpick, I support Alt to be ranked as it does have some useful qualities outlined in the original post, as well as offering some decent role compression in fog + gren check + tran check (depending on set). While other mons can perform the same role (like fini), it can distinguish itself from these via its unique attributes like hyper voice going through sub (very useful for BD Kommo, particularly if it's pjab as you'd lose to it otherwise) as well as reliable recovery in roost. Far from the best mon, but definitely worthy of a rank considering shit like zydog is on here (not saying it shouldn't be, but alt is probably above it imo).

Edit: Also huge support for Shed to ranked, shed stall is probably the most infuriating variant of stall to face, as it can invalidate your breaker in the matchup if you don't play cleverly to remove the shed (which is not always possible, but that's more a teambuilder issue). While not the best in some matchups, its uses on stall and general impact on what prepping for stall means justifies a rank of some sort, I'm not sure why it wasn't ranked earlier tbh.
 
Just gonna point out here, pex does definitely not wall all Kommo sets, BD Tpunch beats it, which is the only set alt is a good answer to. Also comparing the 2 is odd to me, they don't really fill the same roles outside of both being gren checks and SSIs for kommo.

So this post isn't just a useless nitpick, I support Alt to be ranked as it does have some useful qualities outlined in the original post, as well as offering some decent role compression in fog + gren check + tran check (depending on set). While other mons can perform the same role (like fini), it can distinguish itself from these via its unique attributes like hyper voice going through sub (very useful for BD Kommo, particularly if it's pjab as you'd lose to it otherwise) as well as reliable recovery in roost. Far from the best mon, but definitely worthy of a rank considering shit like zydog is on here (not saying it shouldn't be, but alt is probably above it imo).
BD tpunch doesn't beat pex unless you belly drum on the switch. BD is also much less common compared to the other two sets, which, as I pointed out is terrible for alt.

Otherwise, yeah I agree, the toxapex, comparison was weird. I really should have said that if you wanted a mon that beats ash gren and kommo-o while not being useless against defensive teams you should use pex.

I still don't support the alt ranking, the fact that it's a mega that's terrible against defensive teams should speak for itself. It's also weak to rocks before mega evolving which is terrible, and it also has a pretty mediocre typing before mega evolving, it actually doesn't safely switch into much after rocks, so it can't really safely mega evolve against most of the tier. It also can't really make use of it's wide move pool, since toxic, fairy stab and roost are required and you want defog to make sure that pert doesn't get up free rocks. I really can't support such a niche mon being ranked, especially since there are much better mons that can do what it does.

I'm not even gonna bother with the calcs, as it doesn't check much aside from pert, M-lop and Zard X, reason being that gren can carry coverage in the form of ice beam and rain boosted hydro 2hkos after rocks from non evolved specs. Kommo-o just uses jab on the z set or toxic/sr on the sped set. Zard Y actually beats it, as sun boosted fire blast 2hkos after rocks. Z move volc completely shafts it, since both z psychic and z bug deal a hefty chunk at +1 and sub volcano completely walls it (the Z move calcs go for timid volc btw, just clarifying incase anyone said I calcd modest).
 
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