Resource USUM OU ULTRA Viability Ranking Thread

[robofiend]

to S: Definitely. I think that comparisons to Landorus-T are very apt in this case. As Lando has fallen from the status of "absolute best mon in the metagame" to "one of several amazing pokemon that runs the metagame," Heatran has both blossomed to prominence (later last year) and continued to be a dominant for in the meta, adapting to every change fairly gracefully. While it isn't as explicitly useful as Landorus against super offensive teams (I guess it can run scarf, but meh), it absolutely shines against more common balance and stall teams. When I run teams with Heatran on them I always so pleased with its role compression and its overall ability to cut common strategies down in their tracks.

to A-: Maybe... Part of my issue is that this thing can still pretty much sweep a lot of common teams if everything goes right. I've run a couple teams with it recently and.. it kinda works. If you're facing common cores made up out of Gastro/Clef/Torn-T/Landorus-T/Heatran, Volcarona's going to have a really easy time boosting to +1 (or even +2 if Heatran lacks Toxic and Clefable lacks Twave) and breaking an opponents team. And it loves some of the recent meta changes away from Pex, CB Zygarde, and Chansey offense, none of which are as popular as they once were. But on the other hand, it's nowhere near as reliable as other A- mons like Mega Latios, Megazam, Hoopa-U or even Mawile and Kyurem-B. So I guess Volc falls in the realm of "high risk/high reward" - which frankly isn't true of a lot of other mons at the top of the VR. There's nothing else in the upper echelons of the tier that legitimately requires a lot of team support outside of Hawlucha, who needs one dedicated partner to work. All of the other A- mons are low risk/moderate reward, and in some cases they're actually carrying their team (e.g. Gliscor being one of the tier's only rock-solid Heatran switchins, Chansey hard checking almost all special attackers, Pinsir ripping through teams that don't have better priority or Cele/Skarm).

I will say, though, that a lot of teams people bring can be pretty cleanly 6-0'd by Volcarona if it gets set up. Examples below from OUPL finals, just because they're recent:

Teams

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-383947
Hiye's team - Clef/Heatran/Zygarde/Latios/Ferrothorn/Landorus - they all die to +1 Volcarona with Bug-Z and HP Ground. It's especially nice if Clef's taken just a tiny bit of damage so Volc can avoid taking a Twave. A teammate like Torn-T can taunt mons like Clefable, Heatran, or Ferrothorn, clear hazards, and let Volcarona in for free.
FMG's team - Lando/Lopunny/Zygarde/Rotom-W/Magearna/(CB) Kartana - they also die to +1 Volcarona with Bug-Z and HP Ground (Lopunny can try to RK with repeated Fake Outs, I guess, but risks catching a burn.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-383736
Vai Lusa's team is super similar to Hiye's

You can see similar scenarios for other teams in the finals, though cores like Gastrodon+Heatran are somewhat harder for Volcarona to break, these calcs bears repeating:

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 360-424 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 288-340 (74.8 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

If you somehow have spikes up, you win against either.
(e.g. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-383770)

Disclaimer: This isn't to say "haha look Volc's good because it can theoretically win against OUPL teams" but rather that as the meta has developed, there are a few holes that Volcarona can still exploit, and I think it's worth mentioning them, even if Volc is actually destined for A-.

TLDR: HEATRAN S, ZYGARDE S, KARTANA A+, REMOVE S-.

Also this

 

[Jordy]

→A+
In the current metagame, I believe Tornadus-T to be one of the best Pokemon for its splashability, effectivity, and versatility (for as far as that goes). Tornadus-T's really solidified itself as a dominant force in the current metagame, between its Rocky Helmet and Flyinium Z sets, and even some rain teams opting for Life Orb, Tornadus-T is fairly versatile and fits on a variety of teams. Personally, my favorite set is the Rocky Helmet set with Taunt as it does an absolutely amazing job at shutting down certain balance and stall builds, which are pretty dominant in the current metagame. Its ability to check Kartana, Tapu Bulu, and Scarf Landorus-T in one slot only adds to its splashability as a lot of teams really appreciate having a check to these Pokemon and a Defogger in one slot, Zapdos also does this, but lacks the utility Knock Off provides.

→B-
Charizard Y benefits from a variety of current metagame trends, namely being: a lot of balance builds are still foregoing Toxapex for Gastrodon, a lack of Choice Scarf users that can sufficiently check it, and the surge of Pursuit trappers. With a wide array of balance builds still substituting Toxapex for Gastrodon, Charizard Y really finds itself an easy time to break up the team as these balance builds usually lack a good switch in for it. With some of the best Choice Scarf users being Landorus-T and Kartana it may prove to be hard for bulkier builds to actually deal with Charizard Y as Choice Scarf Kartana and Choice Scarf Defog Landorus-T fail to sufficiently deal with Charizard Y by virtue of its typing, Choice Scarf Greninja is still a very potent Choice Scarf user, but it very rarely fits on these bulkier builds that Charizard Y has such a good time against. Weavile and Tyranitar are in the best spots they've been in in a while and Charizard Y takes perfect advantage of that as they can efficiently Pursuit trap the Mega Lati twins, which Charizard Y greatly appreciates as it usually fails to deal with these Pokemon. On another note, Charizard Y has seen a bit of recent tour success in the first round of WCoP, having been used 6 times (every letter links to a different replay) and having won 5 of these matches, I think this really showcases Charizard Y's efficiency.

I'll end this post with something that has recently been touched on, removing S- rank. I think this is the right course of action as there is no longer as much of a gap between the viability of Pokemon in A+ and Kartana to warrant a higher ranking. What should happen with Heatran is fairly simple imo, raise it to S rank, Landorus-T is no longer the single best Pokemon in the metagame and Heatran has really caught up to it in terms of splashability and efficiency.

 

[teachable]

Honestly, controversial given Terrakion was nommed down but I'd nom it for B from B-.

I'll let the replays speak for me. The Rock Polish or Sub SD sets are really freaking good rn given the types of offensive cores popular. With Fightinium/Rockium you can straight up 6-0 balance/stall builds, and with Rock Polish/Sub you're not dead weight versus offense. Sure it can get revenge killed, but if its killing something it did its job and you can always come back in on something slower later. I really recommend people trying it, I can paste my teams if people really want them lol. Good resists w/ Fire/Bug/Rock/Dark (lets you come in on Zapdos bar hax!!), overall just a really scary mon to see at preview. I haven't messed with Scarf yet but it seems like it could be really good w/ Magnezone.

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-768329525 - Terrakion comes in multiple times, weakening stuff so that my Bulu/Doublade can win.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-768324453 - Terrakion revenge kills a TTar (it needs EQ to kill us)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-768289501 - Terrakion gets 2 free turns and wins.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-768299634 - Terrakion places my Opponent in 50-50s where eventually I win and kill Mag.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-767896634 - Terrakion has OK bulk and revenge kills a specs koko
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-767799790 - I get off a RP and get Knocked and break through shit for a Gren sweep.

 

[Mellow]

Honestly, controversial given Terrakion was nommed down but I'd nom it for B from B-.

I'll let the replays speak for me. The Rock Polish or Sub SD sets are really freaking good rn given the types of offensive cores popular. With Fightinium/Rockium you can straight up 6-0 balance/stall builds, and with Rock Polish/Sub you're not dead weight versus offense. Sure it can get revenge killed, but if its killing something it did its job and you can always come back in on something slower later. I really recommend people trying it, I can paste my teams if people really want them lol. Good resists w/ Fire/Bug/Rock/Dark (lets you come in on Zapdos bar hax!!), overall just a really scary mon to see at preview. I haven't messed with Scarf yet but it seems like it could be really good w/ Magnezone.

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-768329525 - Terrakion comes in multiple times, weakening stuff so that my Bulu/Doublade can win.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-768324453 - Terrakion revenge kills a TTar (it needs EQ to kill us)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-768289501 - Terrakion gets 2 free turns and wins.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-768299634 - Terrakion places my Opponent in 50-50s where eventually I win and kill Mag.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-767896634 - Terrakion has OK bulk and revenge kills a specs koko
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-767799790 - I get off a RP and get Knocked and break through shit for a Gren sweep.

Soz Teach but I think I'm gonna have to disagree with a Terrakion rise. While Terrakion is a solid breaker, it always has been. I guess you could argue that Balance has had a bit of a rise in usage, which I guess is fair, however I'd counter that by saying that bulky scarf Landorus has had a big surge in usage recently, and is often used on these balances that are popular

, which is a huge problem for Terrakion, as one of the merits of SD Rockium was it's ability to break through defensive Landorus - a feat none of it's other sets can achieve. Also pokemon faster than Terrakion such as Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Mega Alakazam are staples in the meta right now, and of course Kartana and Ash-Greninja are still amazing. While you can Rock Polish to outspeed these threats, this puts you in a 50/50 that you don't want to be in - do you throw off an attack to hit the Scarf Landorus, or do you Rock Polish up to outspeed the aforementioned fast mons? This is the problem with Terrakion - it can break balance, but it has to jump through a lot of hoops to do so when you could use something a bit more consistent and less prone to being revenge killed or picked off by priority. Personally I'd rather see Terrakion drop than rise, but I think it's probably okay where it is now.

edit: nvm my opinion has changed after seeing those pecs, terrakion to s+

 

[teachable]

While you can Rock Polish to outspeed these threats, this puts you in a 50/50 that you don't want to be in - do you throw off an attack to hit the Scarf Landorus, or do you Rock Polish up to outspeed the aforementioned fast mons?

As the offensive threat, if you guess once you basically setup your own sweep; I wouldn't really call that a 50-50 you don't want to be in. The speed issue I can agree with, albeit you OHKO all those Pokemon if you Rock Polish on the switch but agreed that it is Terrakion's biggest weakness. I'm fine with no change, I just personally could see it rising.

 

[Dreadfury]

Hasn't been too long since I posted my original noms and agreements/disagreements, so I'm going to provide a bit of an update to what I initially had to say since quite a few of my opinions about the metagame have changed since then:

For all newcomers and folks that may have forgotten, I use a specific notation to address a specific subrank versus what I use to address a full collection of subranks. I will use "A- rank" to discuss the A- rank in particular, excluding A and A+, while I will use "A-rank" (without a space) to denote that I am talking about A-, A, and A+ collectively. This will usually happen if I think something could be in any two or all subranks. So hopefully some of the notation I'll use in this post won't confuse anybody.

In addition, I'm going to be experimenting with a completely different format for this particular post. These kinds of posts tend to be massive, so I'm going to condense each section of it into a Spoiler tag.

Introduction: Initial Thoughts on S-

For one, I'm still on the fence with the removal of S-, but a few of the nominations I'm going to echo will lead up to what I think should happen with S- as a whole.

I'll explain this in detail at the end of my post, but I'd first like to discuss the meat and potatoes of my post: the nominations, with a particular focus on what has changed and what has stayed the same for me since I last posted my thoughts in this thread:

Heatran

First, no matter what happens to the S- subrank, I'd like to finally concede that I firmly believe Heatran should move up to S. I still think Lando-T is more than worthy of the rank it has held since the very beginning of the Gen 7 metagame, but Heatran has since solidified itself both on the ladder and in tournament play as one of the tier's top threats by a considerable margin. I would even go so far as to say that Heatran is better than Landorus. Anyone who knows a bit about recent meta trends knows what makes Heatran such a valuable pick, but in case anyone here does not, let me enlighten you: it absolutely murders Stall and Balance. It has a great deal of viable sets and items to run: Steelium-Z, Firium-Z, Grassium-Z, and the now-uncommon Groundium-Z are all great options on Heatran, allowing it to eradicate many key threats in the tier. Scarf, while by no means its best set, is still decent at times. Bulkier Leftovers variants are notoriously difficult to take down. But almost all of these sets have one thing in common: Magma Storm. Magma Storm completes Tran and makes this thing extremely oppressive for the Stall and Balance teams it tears in half. It can win the war of attrition against Pex and Chansey if it absolutely must by Taunting them and whittling them down with Magma Storm's periodic damage in tandem with just beating away at them with its attacks. Would-be resists such as the Balance staple Gastrodon could potentially find themselves trapped by Magma Storm and promptly removed by a ludicrously powerful Bloom Doom (its best set IMO). Steelium-Z reliably breaks past trapped fairies and Tyranitar. And Groundium-Z lets it just maim Toxapex instead. This thing's splashability, role compression, and downright insane matchups against some of the best archetypes in the business solidify its place in S, in my opinion.

Volcarona

Next, I couldn't help but notice that Volcarona has been nominated to A- since so many of us argued for a rise. Since a lot of people here probably know me because of how much I defend this mon, I'm going to continue playing that role here: while I still think Volcarona is due for a rise, I certainly don't think it should drop to A-. One of the biggest factors that lead to great mons dropping down in the VR is a shift in metagame trends that negatively affects a mon's ability to keep performing its role with the same consistency and effectiveness as it used to. While I'm no longer a huge fan of the SubSwarm set courtesy of Heatran being literally everywhere, the decline in Toxapex usage (and Toxapex often running Payapa Berry over Black Sludge to counteract the Psychic surge, pun intended) has given Volcarona a largely set-in-stone moveset that catches just about anything except Toxapex: Buginium-Z gives its Bug Buzz some much-needed power to deal with Tyranitar and Mega Lati@s effectively, Fire Blast is still its most powerful option when it doesn't need to burn its Z-move, and the surge in Heatran usage in tandem with Toxapex's decline has truly solidified Hidden Power Ground as its coverage option of choice. And while Volcarona certainly requires a decent amount of team support compared to other stuff in A or A+ in order to function, its peaks are downright devastating. Plus, the tier isn't short of strong Defoggers to adequately support Volcarona by keeping the rocks away, with Fat Scarf Lando and Tornadus-T being so good. I don't think anything has changed such that Volcarona is in a particularly bad spot now, and it honestly seems more worthy of a rise than a drop. Lastly, as was pointed out earlier in the thread, solid teams are now looking quite vulnerable to Volcarona's shenanigans. The trend of "overprepared for then underprepared for" continues yet again.

Tornadus-Therian (inb4 format error again)

I also agree that Tornadus-Therian is due for a rise to A+.

Tornadus-Therian (inb4 format error again)

This thing is downright phenomenal in this meta and it isn't too difficult to see why: a great Speed tier, a great offensive typing, a great ability, and a downright stellar movepool all play an integral role in carrying this thing to the top. I would argue that Torn-T is the best Defogger in the tier, bar none, since it finds many opportunities throughout the match to force switches, check powerful physical or special attackers depending on the set, click Defog, nuke something from orbit with a Flyinium-Z set, cripple switchins with Knock Off, gain momentum with U-turn, or nail potential Hurricane switchins with Superpower. This thing is juuuuust versatile enough to be A+, even if S- is removed and the subranks have to be shuffled as a result.

Protean Greninja

This'll probably be a weird one, but I firmly believe regular Greninja (aka. Protean) should rise to A+, regardless of what becomes of S-. This thing's versatility got it straight-up banned in OR/AS but even then it often lacked enough immediate firepower to break past some of Stall's sturdiest staples. But Z-moves and the addition of Ash-Greninja as another top-tier threat you're probably going to be worrying about and preparing for as soon as you see the frog in Team Preview have given this thing a whole new level of unpredictability that makes it seem out of place in A. One of the sets I've seen a bit of discussion about lately is a Groundium-Z set with Dig and maximum Attack investment that lures Toxapex in and blows it back instantly. Other Greninja sets, catching wind of the surge in Heatran usage, are opting to run Low Kick to effectively deal with it without banking on a Hydro Pump miss or wasting a Z-move. And this thing getting both types of Spikes on top of maintaining its old, great movepool to run powerful Special and mixed sets and a fantastic Choice Scarf set (one of the only common Scarfers that can revenge kill Volcarona) only further helps it out. This thing is nuts right now and should rise.

Mega Latios

Lastly, I now strongly disagree with a Mega Latios rise to A. In the early days of Sun and Moon I was extremely hard on this thing, since it was widely considered to be a meme pick at best in OR/AS OU due to the sheer utility a Latios with the freedom to run a Choice item or Life Orb could provide. Looking back at those days, though, I can see that I was incredibly wrong. This thing is downright phenomenal in the current metagame due to its ability to prey on Tyranitar and Heatran much better than a regular Latios could even hope to. Psychic hits like a truck, too. Its final moveslot can be dedicated to just about anything, from Hidden Power Fire to beat Steels to Draco Meteor to nuke something to Ice Beam to prey on Lando-T and the ever-improving Zygarde to even Defog if you're that desperate. And to top it all off, it has reliable recovery. That said, I don't think Mega Latios deserves a rise to A. This thing is arguably the best Mega in the tier, and I think it should jump right to A+. It's insanely good, man. It really is.

Before I jump to my discussion about S-, I'd just like to quickly glance over some other noms, including ones I made earlier:

Minor Opinions on Nominations

Mega Latias to A: Agree
Hawlucha to A-: On the fence, leaning more towards Agree for now.
Tapu Lele to A+: Agree
Mega Alakazam to A-: Strongly Agree (This could go up to A)
Terrakion to B: Disagree
Tangrowth to A-: Strongly Agree (This thing's differences from Tapu Bulu are notable enough in this thing's favor that it should be an A-ranker)
Blacephalon to C or C-: Strongly Agree (Don't kill me, mods! This mon not even getting HP Fighting because of legendary IVs is an absolute joke but it has juuuust enough merit to be ranked at the lowermost echelons [C- or C at best] of the VR if it were to be ranked seriously, although idk if this thing is actually considered UR or not and I thus don't have any replays to help this thing)
Zapdos to B+: Reluctantly Agree (Yeah, I was kinda wrong about this mon lol)

And now for my updated take on S- and whether or not it should stay or go:

My Stance On S- and Dreadfury's Proposal

I absolutely think S- still has its merits even after all the counterpoints to my original statement. But it's no longer a case of "nothing competes with Lando." A lot of opinions about Heatran in the last couple pages of this thread make it pretty clear that nobody thinks Lando alone rules this tier anymore. It seems more along the lines of "some of these things aren't Lando, Heatran, or Zygarde (more on this guy later on) but are quite a bit more polarizing than A+." The two mons in question are Clefable and Kartana, of course: both of these would benefit tremendously from the existence of S- and it wouldn't throw everything off if they remained in there.

I have a very interesting proposal. I'm almost certain, given the Council's responses to similar proposals in the past, that it'll probably get shot down on sight. But I want to make said proposal anyway:

What if, should S- get nuked from orbit, the Council internally ranked the S-ranks (and maybe the A+ to A- ranks) in order from best to worst but handled that particular aspect of Viability Ranking internally to avoid causing needless clutter in these threads (aka. blacklisting discussion of mons moving up within the same subrank)? I'd argue that it solves the exact problem people have with S- without having S- as an actual subrank.

The next couple of spoiler tags will be figures of what precisely I'm proposing, in case there is any confusion on the matter:

Figure 1: The Current OU VR Under This Proposal

The list you'll see here is my own take on what S, S-, and A+ would look like in its current state if this proposal was applied but nothing shifted to a different subrank. This obviously isn't meant to be objective, so take it with a grain of salt.

S Rank:

S Rank

Landorus-T


S- Rank

Heatran

Kartana

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Zygarde

Clefable

Toxapex

Lando-T is the best. Heatran is clearly superior to Kartana and it is reflected as such. A+ is meant to be taken with a grain of salt, but the consensus thus far is that Zygarde is easily the best mon in A+ and that Clefable is just behind it. The rest is just opinion-based and thrown together without messing up the stuff within said subrank.

Figure 2: Zygarde and Clefable Rise, S- Intact

This would be a potential outcome for the OU VR after a potential update, with the S- subrank still existing but adapted to encompass potential rises. I'm specifically not including A+ in this example because it specifically discusses the five things that either are or may be in an S-rank:

S Rank:

S Rank

Landorus-T

Heatran

S- Rank

Zygarde

Clefable

Kartana

I personally think Heatran is straight-up better than Lando-T in this meta, but some may disagree so I kept Lando at the top of S. The general consensus appears to be that Zygarde is the third-best mon in the tier, and that Clefable is also worthy of an S-rank, so I kept them in S- instead of jumping the gun to S. Kartana is a very weird case that I'll get into in my third figure, so me putting it at the bottom of S- for this example will make some more sense in the next part.

Figure 3: S- Removed, Kartana Drops to Top of A+

The third figure would look basically identical to the second: the biggest difference, however, is that S- would be removed. The rankings would look something along the lines of this: S would be Lando>=Heatran>Zygarde>Clefable, and A+ would be Kartana>whatever order is decided for some potential rises that may include Lele, Volcarona, Tornadus-T, Mega Latios, Protean Greninja, etc. A+ would be extremely crowded, but it accurately reflects the tier nevertheless: there are tons of extremely powerful threats that you must prepare for.

Thoughts on Where Zygarde, Clefable, and Kartana Should Be Ranked

This proposal, whether or not it gains any traction, also reflects my opinions about Zygarde, Clefable, and Kartana in this meta and, in that vein, where I'd argue they should be ranked: if S- stays, Zygarde and Clefable should rise to S- and Kartana should remain in S-, and if S- goes, then Zygarde and Clefable should rise to S and Kartana should drop to A+ and would be that subrank's best mon.

Anyway, thank you all in advance for reading some of my thoughts about the meta right now! I really hope some of what I posted here will be useful going forward, even if all of my nominations are rejected and my rather controversial proposal doesn't end up catching the Council's interest. And apologies once again for the enormous post, although the format I've chosen for this should downsize it into bite-sized chunks.

EDIT: Can someone help me delete this other Tornadus-Therian spoiler? Can't seem to edit it out and it looks ugly AF.

 

[volx757]

I absolutely think S- still has its merits even after all the counterpoints to my original statement. But it's no longer a case of "nothing competes with Lando." A lot of opinions about Heatran in the last couple pages of this thread make it pretty clear that nobody thinks Lando alone rules this tier anymore. It seems more along the lines of "some of these things aren't Lando, Heatran, or Zygarde (more on this guy later on) but are quite a bit more polarizing than A+." The two mons in question are Clefable and Kartana, of course: both of these would benefit tremendously from the existence of S- and it wouldn't throw everything off if they remained in there.

I'm not sure if it's just the wording you chose, so maybe you agree with what I say here: Pokemon don't benefit from VR at all. Players do.

I wrote a post about removing S- a few weeks ago, and it seems like more people are in agreement that the rank isn't necessary anymore. For one, as we can see, it generates a lot of unnecessary discussion about who should be S/S-/A+, when really the positioning of zygarde over kartana over clefable etc, doesn't matter. They are all fantastic at their jobs.

I think maybe some people are forgetting what an S rank means (note that it doesn't even always exist in metas). It's reserved for pokemon that are so good that you almost harm yourself by NOT using them. In other words: you better have a good reason not to use them on a team. I feel this way about both landorus and heatran. Zygarde I'm on the fence about, clefable is definitely not up there to my mind.

A+ rank is for mons that perform a role consistently and self-sufficiently, but are not near-requirements for a team. Sounds to me like kartana, clefable, and zygarde. I don't see any reason to complicate this with an in-between rank.

 

[Millionsunz]

Volcarona drop to A- --> Disagree

Volcarona is still one of the scariest Pokemon to see in team preview today. It's potency as the QD sweeper that we all know and love/hate is frankly what makes it such an alarming Pokemon to see when a battle first begins.

Being a good set-up sweeper, however, does not justify it remaining at it's current ranking one may argue. I won't disagree with this, for example, while Charizard X can be a great set-up sweeper, I don't think it should be automatically bumped up to the A ranking. What makes Volcarona worthy of the A ranking, however, is that it has an ability to have no safe switch-ins until the entire set is known. Dreadfury touched on this, but I'd like to take it a little bit further.

On any given QD Volc set, you're guaranteed at least two moves: Quiver Dance and Fire Blast/Fiery Dance. QD is a gimme on the set, and I have never seen a Volc without a form of Fire-Type coverage. Bug Buzz is usually a third move for Bug Type STAB, but it doesn't necessarily have to be on there (imo you should carry Bug Buzz on your Volc but live your own life if you want to man). The fourth and final move is up in the air, and that's what makes Volcarona so terrifying. When facing a +1 Volcarona, assuming it gets a QD up for the sake of argument, the opposing player has to ask themself a few questions. Can I send in my Tyranitar and hope it's not a Bug Z set? Can I send in my Toxapex and hope it's not a Psychic Z set? Can I throw in my Heatran and hope that is it not an HP Ground set? Can I throw in my Tapu Fini and hope that it's not a Giga Drain set? Until that fourth move is revealed, the opposing player has no idea what kind of coverage your Volcarona may be carrying. This idea in itself makes Volcarona such a volatile Pokemon that in the teambuilding process, a player should double check to make sure that they have more than one solid check to Volcarona, because their one "solid check" may in fact fall to its knees when facing a Volc.

Why Boosted Volc is a threat if you don't already know

Boosted Volcarona is straight up terrifying. If Volcarona is able to get up a single QD (which is not terribly difficult nowadays), it becomes an absolute monster. Mega Lati@s drops to a +1 Bug Buzz (Latios is OHKOd, Latias requires Rocks but cannot OHKO with 8 SpA Draco even with Rocks damage on Volc), CB Tyranitar with 80 HP is OHKOd by Bug Buzz after Rocks, SpDef Heatran is 2HKOd by HP Ground while only doing about a quarter to Volc, Toxapex is 2HKOd by Psychic and OHKOd by Psychic Z, and Tapu Fini is 2HKOd by Giga Drain. At +1 Speed, Volcarona outruns Scarf Lando (who is OHKOd by Fire Blast), Ash Greninja (who requires 5 Water Shuriken hits to guarantee OHKO w/o Rocks), Tapu Koko, Mega Zam, and Tornadus-T.

This unpredictability of Volc is what makes it worthy of it's ranking of A. Teambuilders must build in a way to deal with Volc lest then encounter one and get demolished. Not enough has changed in the metagame that makes Volcarona harder to use or less scary to face. Finchinator mentions the points that Volc needs the perfect set every time to win games, and the rise of Tyranitar, Lati@s, Toxapex, and Heatran in usage warrant a drop. I disagree with these notions. Sure, Volcarona needs the correct coverage move to cover every single team ever made, but it carries the threat of always having the correct move, and even if it doesn't, it's sure as heck going to put a dent in something somewhere. Those that teambuild with Volc will bring Pokemon that can cover the Pokemon that Volc does not carry the correct coverage move for. In regard to the 5 Pokemon brought up, who are some of the better ways to deal with a Volc, Volc can easily deal with them provided it carries the correct coverage move, and even if it doesn't, those that use Volcarona will compensate for its inability to deal with those Pokemon.

Four moveslot syndrome is not a strong enough argument to drop a Pokemon a ranking imo.

 

[lydian]

Just wanted to give my opinion on Volcarona. I personally don't really have a strong opinion on it, but I wanna present the arguments before agreeing/disagreeing with anything.

1) Low Viability of >100 Scarfers
Generally, Volcarona's and most >100 Scarfers' viability shifts in a similar manner:

• Volcarona rises because there are less >100 Scarfers.
• >100 Scarfers rise because there's more Volcarona.
• Volcarona drops because there are more >100 Scarfers.
• >100 Scarfers drop because there's less Volcarona.

This to some extent follows a principle of biology actually known as Lotka-Volterra equations, which exemplifies the oscillation of prey and predator. In this case, Volcarona is analogous to the prey whereas >100 Scarfers are analogous to the predator.

Graph 1

I know it's really odd for me to bring biology and math into the discussion here, but my goal is to exactly show that this argument is flawed. Volcarona and >100 Scarfers will always be oscillating in viability, rising Volcarona in accordance to the lack of >100 Scarfers is a bit of a bad move because it'd drop naturally once >100 Scarfers rise again. But still, I don't think the graph is all that clear-cut because unlike wild animals we do know about this oscillation and act accordingly. Because of this, it should tend to stabilize down the line like it's doing right now in the current meta, as you can kinda see in the second graph (Volcarona ) (>100 Scarfers):

Graph 2

With this stabilization in mind, I think this thing of >100 Scarfers shouldn't really be used as an argument unless another viability issue is causing the problem and not the lack of Volcarona itself. I hope this was clear, if you didn't understand please feel free to ask me and I'll elaborate.

2) Volcarona still threatens all of its would-be checks
Now, this is a good argument for a Volcarona rise. Volcarona can pretty much choose to take care of Eon Duo and Tyranitar with Bug Buzz, Heatran by running Hidden Power Ground, Toxapex by running Psychic, and even Chansey if running SubSwarm. Even niche checks like Tapu Fini and Mantine can be overthrown by niche moves in Giga Drain and Hidden Power Electric. I think the user above made a great job at explaining this specific point so I won't discuss this any further.

3) The rise of Heatran and Eon Duo
Now, this is a big factor to warrant a drop though. In Toxapex meta, running Psychium Z and either Hidden Power Ground or Bug Buzz was fine because it left a lot less room for matching up against something that would beat Volcarona. But now that the latter two are much more prominent, picking moves with Volcarona is basically picking your poison. You'll never cover anything and that's a huge deal because of the following point:

4) Volcarona needs a lot of support
To cover the threats it can't beat, Volcarona basically requires a lure as a teammate, as no one is letting Heatran get low in front of a Toxapex. And guess what, lures take up team slots which could be used for something else. Combine that with the fact that you also need a reliable Defogger and there's the reason of why building with Volcarona is so difficult, it requires too much support. But how is this something new? Well, the key thing is point 3, with Heatran and Eon Duo rising, Volcarona needs increasingly more support.

With all these points in mind, I'll have to agree that Volcarona should drop. Just remember that threatening doesn't always equal viable. The massive support that Volcarona requires on the current metagame makes it worthy of a drop.

 

[Ske]

Okay even though i don't think Volcarona should drop at all since its Buginium Hp Ground set destroys almost any-team without Toxapex & Chansey & both usage are lower than usual i would like to change the topic & briefly nominate a mon right now.

Tyranitar-Mega B+ to A-

I think Mega Tyranitar is a really underrated mon atm, it is a really solid rocker Atm & a really good pursuit trapper. It gets rocks up vs most of the popular defoggers Zapdos, Tornadus lacking Superpower, & its extra bulk is really nice, Mega Latios cannot 2HKO u with Earthquake

Hide

4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 128-152 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Esp under terrain & u can pursuit trap it. It also has great role compression as it allows mons such as Heatran run Z-moves such as Bloom Doom or Steelium-Z & is overall a solid pick in the current metagame.

Also i think pepole should use Rocks Mega-Tyranitar more and never bother with DD Mega-Tyranitar, I think its really bad ATM and
it was one of the reasons it dropped earlier but i don't think Rocks Mega-Tyranitar
should be brought up with DD as Rocks should be the
only Mega-Tyranitar set players
should be using.​

 

[Guard]

A lot of heated discussion is going on right now about S-, so let me share my opinion.

The reason why S- was created, was because of certain Pokemon being fantastic yet not phenomenal like Lando. The question we have to ask ourselves is: is this still the case?

Heatran:
I can't think of a Pokemon that is more punishing after being given a free switch and it is very easy for Heatran to switch freely for obvious reasons. The rise of Clef gives it another formidable Pokemon to prey on. I don't care if S- were to be removed or not, Heatran should be ranked alongside Lando, because it simply is equally good.

Kartana:
It can go either way with this Pokemon. I feel like S- is it's home because it is a lot better that Koko/Mage/Gren/Pex/Ferro. It may not be as versatile as Lando/Tran/Clef/Zyg but it a polarizing offensive force that has plenty of ways to beat it's checks (it has no counters) with its Band/Scarf/SD-Z-move sets and plenty of coverage options in Smart Strike, Knock Off, Z-Night-Slash, Psycho Cut and even Z-Giga-Impact. Besides that, it also has defensive utility in the form of defog and a respectable defense. I could live with a drop to the top of A+, should S- be removed, but I still think it's rather controversial. This Pokemon warrants an S- rank in my opinion, but S would be too much and A+ would be underselling it.

Clefable:
She is back to grab her title of Queen. Best rocker in the game, counters plenty of extremely threatening mons, an entry hazard sponge and therefore very very splashable. No doubt about a rise to S-. Does not fit in A+ nor in S.

Zygarde:
This thing is nuts! Counters are nonexistent because of its sheer unpredictability and versatility with both offensive and defensive sets being at the top of the game (Sub+Protect being A- and the 3 other sets being A+). It shreds through offense and defense with only one set ((Sub)-Double-Dance), to give an example of its excellent role and coverage compression. Absolutely no place in A+ and a spot in S alongside Lando and Tran is acceptable, though S- fits it well enough too for now.

Having said that, I think it's clearly evident that Clef/Kartana/Zyg/Tran separate themselves from the other A+ mons and this should be correctly reflected in the VR, because that's what it's for. Some people have insisted the same can be said for all the A+ mons, but Koko, Mage, Ferro, Pex and Gren are nowhere near the level of the four I have discussed. So, to give a short summary of this post:

S
Heatran
Landorus-Therian
(Zygarde)

S-
Clefable
Kartana
(Zygarde)

DO NOT REMOVE S-

 

[Dreadfury]

3) The rise of Heatran and Eon Duo
Now, this is a big factor to warrant a drop though. In Toxapex meta, running Psychium Z and either Hidden Power Ground or Bug Buzz was fine because it left a lot less room for matching up against something that would beat Volcarona. But now that the latter two are much more prominent, picking moves with Volcarona is basically picking your poison. You'll never cover anything and that's a huge deal because of the following point:

This isn't exactly true. The sheer prominence of these three in the current metagame, plus Pex's increased use of Payapa over Black Sludge, has all but solidified its best set as QD+Fire Blast+Bug Buzz+HP Ground. It isn't meant to cover literally everything that would counter or check other sets, and Bug Buzz+HP Ground hits all of Mega Lati@s, Tyranitar, the Greninjas, and Heatran. This makes it a bit more of a one-trick pony, but this also means your support for Volc is going to be a lot more set-in-stone than before: the influx of new Defoggers has only helped Volcarona stay healthy and most of said Defoggers have only gotten better lately, and now you simply need to run an answer for Chansey and Toxapex. It doesn't even have to be a lure: Shuca Berry Tapu Koko, for instance, can both provide Defog support and cover Toxapex whilst still luring in most Landorus and Zygarde sets.

Your biggest argument in favor of dropping Volcarona - that it requires a bit of support to function - doesn't really make sense in the context of it dropping. Nothing has changed in the metagame for the support Volcarona needs to function effectively to be harder to supply. If you simply said that it was a reason for it to not rise then I'd be able to wrap my head around this a bit more. But as it stands, the meta's recent shifts in light of the rise of stronger Psychic types than ever before have made Volcarona a lot better than a ranking of A- would imply. Lastly, the support it needs isn't even particularly gimmicky. It pairs well with a great deal of different things in the A and S-ranks - including some things that have been nominated for a rise.

That said, you have a good argument. I just think it's a better argument in favor of it not rising as opposed to having Volc drop to A-. Usually something has to get worse if it's going to drop, and with the surge of Psychics everywhere it just finds a better reason to limit its coverage options in favor of just hitting the biggest portion of the metagame as hard as it can. In that sense I just don't find it as necessary to run Psychic on it.

 

[Ryomathekillers]

It's been quite a while since I last posted so I'll get this out all at once.

Volcarona A -> A-
This should not happen, I honestly don't understand why volc dropped last shift considering that it's probably as good as ever, with toxapex usage down the drain it can use it's best set, Bugium Z+HP ground, of course, psychic is still alright. The mere appearance of a volc on a team can make people wonder, do I keep my tran healthy or my pex which can lead to a lot of people deciding to not use what is one of the best mons if not the best mon in the meta. If you don't build a team with at least two checks you are screwed, this may sound like a lame point, but considering that quite a few scarfers go out of their way just to be able to revenge volc is quite outstanding for it. It's threating af and can easily set up on mons like Clefable and ferro who are on every balance team atm. Do Not Drop It Again.

Tyranitar-Mega B+ to A-
I have been nomming this for a while now and i'm glad others are doing it, this mon is very slept upon rn due to it's rocker set, unlike normal TTar this one has enough bulk to beat a Mlati and be able to trap it. It's honestly a great mon, the rise of wishfable has also given it a great partner and lets you run something like T-wave or Flamethrower on that clef. Btw i'm nomming the Sr set, the dd set is bad, in fact the only reason it dropped WAS the dd set which I find a bit odd.

S-
I'm not gonna go into too much detail about this but what I do believe is this
S:

Heatran

Lando

S-:

Clefable

Zygarde

Kartana

I believe that these rankings are accurate to the current meta in terms of the best of the best.

→A+
In the current metagame, I believe Tornadus-T to be one of the best Pokemon for its splashability, effectivity, and versatility (for as far as that goes). Tornadus-T's really solidified itself as a dominant force in the current metagame, between its Rocky Helmet and Flyinium Z sets, and even some rain teams opting for Life Orb, Tornadus-T is fairly versatile and fits on a variety of teams. Personally, my favorite set is the Rocky Helmet set with Taunt as it does an absolutely amazing job at shutting down certain balance and stall builds, which are pretty dominant in the current metagame. Its ability to check Kartana, Tapu Bulu, and Scarf Landorus-T in one slot only adds to its splashability as a lot of teams really appreciate having a check to these Pokemon and a Defogger in one slot, Zapdos also does this, but lacks the utility Knock Off provides.

→B-
Charizard Y benefits from a variety of current metagame trends, namely being: a lot of balance builds are still foregoing Toxapex for Gastrodon, a lack of Choice Scarf users that can sufficiently check it, and the surge of Pursuit trappers. With a wide array of balance builds still substituting Toxapex for Gastrodon, Charizard Y really finds itself an easy time to break up the team as these balance builds usually lack a good switch in for it. With some of the best Choice Scarf users being Landorus-T and Kartana it may prove to be hard for bulkier builds to actually deal with Charizard Y as Choice Scarf Kartana and Choice Scarf Defog Landorus-T fail to sufficiently deal with Charizard Y by virtue of its typing, Choice Scarf Greninja is still a very potent Choice Scarf user, but it very rarely fits on these bulkier builds that Charizard Y has such a good time against. Weavile and Tyranitar are in the best spots they've been in in a while and Charizard Y takes perfect advantage of that as they can efficiently Pursuit trap the Mega Lati twins, which Charizard Y greatly appreciates as it usually fails to deal with these Pokemon. On another note, Charizard Y has seen a bit of recent tour success in the first round of WCoP, having been used 6 times (every letter links to a different replay) and having won 5 of these matches, I think this really showcases Charizard Y's efficiency.

I honestly agree with all of this.

Tangrowth B+ >A- as a person who loves tangrowth, I can fully support this mon rising, it's been rather great recently and is just competant all around, being a bulky grass with good mu against tran is very helpful. All in all it's straight up too good to be ranked with mons like Washtom and Keldeo and more at home with Zapdos and Mega Mawile. Nothing more that I can say that has not already been said.

Other noms I agree with.

M-Kazam B+ -> A-

Charizard-X B-> B+

Pyukumuku being ranked

Diggersby being ranked

Doublade being ranked

Tapu Fini B- >B

Suicune B -> C+

Now for a nom of my own

Gastrodon B+>A-Gastro has risen as of late for good reason, it checks tran, koko and gren who are just annoying to build against, offering the role compression as well as a free slot for toxic is great, considering it's low weight as well, grass knot is not a great option against it. It's just very viable atm and B+ Is really underselling it. Being able to beat what is probably the best mon in the meta and two of the most powerful attackers in the meta will always be very useful, Raise this mon to A-.

 

[patlop2307]

A+ -> (at least) S-

I really don't see the reason why this Zygarde is still A+ since there are a lot of reasons why it deserves to rise and, in my opinion, is the best Pokémon in OU period. The reasons I will be listing from the most obvious ones to the more difficult ones.

• Typing: Zygarde's typing is quite frankly great as it for one acts as an
  
  immunity, which is pretty much needed on every team and it checks to counters Heatran, which is one of the most commonly used threats in OU as of right now (as the S- rank proves). But aside from that, this typing also makes up for some nice cores like Zygarde + Wish Clefable or Zygarde + Mega-Scizor/Mega-Mawile/Heatran +Tapu Bulu.
• Thousand Arrows: That move is by far the most stupid move in OU right now, Hyerspace Fury doesn't even come close because of Hoppa-U being slow and not having the best typing and physical bulk, but I digress. It's able to hit
  
  types, knock them down, and just ignore Levitate overall. Examples to these scenarios are Zapdos and Rotom-Wash respectively. Zapdos, at first, gets hit neturally, but after the second time the move connects, it gets hit super-effectively whereas Rotom-Wash gets hit super-effectively from the get-go. So, we have a 90 base power move that has the same effect as Smack Down, but on top of that it ignores Levitate (as a
  
  move). That move combined with the Pokémon forces every team to either run Wish Clefable + Landorus-Therian or a
  
  type.
• Diversity: There are a lot of good sets that Zygarde can run. This mainly derives from a couple of factors: nice bulk, nice attack, decent speed, and a wide movepool. With all of this considered, it's bound to be a diverse Pokémon. It can run bulky sets with Substitute, Coil , and Toxic/Glare; it can run offensive sets with Groundium-, Dragonium-, or Steelium Z; it can act as a breaker with Choice Band; and, last but not least, it can run the infamous "Double Dance" set on Aurora Veil. All of that makes Zygarde really versatile and unpredictable at times.

With all of this in mind, I do think it's worth ranking Zygarde higher here and I've honestly played with the thought of it being worth of suspect test because it's a close to a flawless Pokémon with decent to good stats and a wide movepool. Let me know what you guys think about this...

 

[Vengeance417]

Mega Latios from A- to A/A+

It's insulting that this mon currently resides in A- right now. It's proven to be one of, if not the best Mega Pokemon right now. It appreciates the rising surge of Heatran, Amoonguss, Zygarde, Tangrowth, Tapu Bulu, and even Clefable isn't safe if it has taken the slightest amount of chip damage as Psychic has a very good chance to 2HKO after that. The fact that it's one of balance and bulky offense's best offensive countermeasures to Heatran that not only has reliable recovery to shake off the Magma Storm damage but also threaten it out with Earthquake is unprecedented. Psychic + Earthquake alone hits most of the tier for a ton of damage, and its third attack is very customizable depending on your team's needs. I think Ice Beam is among the best choices as it still 2HKOes opposing Mega Latis (or max HP Mega Latias after rocks) while OHKOing Zygarde, Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Kartana while doing a ton to Tangrowth and Tapu Bulu, but HP Fire is nice for whittling down Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor. Draco Meteor's also a very strong secondary STAB that OHKOes Mega Medicham, Kyurem-B, opposing Mega Latis, and is its best attack for taking out a weakened Mega Sableye. Overall, I'd like to see this mon go all the way to A+ but I don't mind if it reaches A. Either way, Mega Latios needs to go up as A- doesn't appropriately represent the viability of this phenomenal Pokemon.

Mega Charizard X from B to B+

This Pokemon's hella slept on right now. Less teams are running defensive Landorus-T in favor of Clefable or Heatran as the Stealth Rock user of choice, which is great news for Mega Charizard X. Dragon Dance variants are starting to become used again due to this as it's much easier to whittle down Scarf Lando than phys def. Meanwhile, 3 Attacks + Roost is still as good a breaker as ever. Toxapex's decreased usage as well as mainly running SpDef over phys def is also fantastic news. Plus, many of the tier's premier bulky cores, such as bulky grass + Heatran + Torn-T, Mega Scizor + Zapdos, and Magearna + Zygarde all get eaten alive by this mon.

Mega Charizard X to B+ please.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

Volcarona from A to A-: Disagree.
Volcarona is incredibly threatening in the current metagame. Volcarona finds many opportunities to set up in the current metagame. With fat teams being spammed right now, there is no shortage of Clefable, Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Tapu Bulu. Heck, if you’re Buginium, (it’s best set imo) you can even set up on Heatran without Toxic. Volcarona also takes advantage of rising mons in the meta such as Tangrowth and to a lesser extent, Mew.
Hazard control is in a very good condition right now. Tornadus-T, Scarf Lando, Scarf Kartana, and Mega Scizor all being great atm. This is great for Volcarona for obvious reasons.
Scarfers over 100 Speed are also in a terrible spot atm. Scarf Keldeo, Blacephalon, Greninja Latias, and Latios are all deadweight against common fat teams being spammed on the ladder.
Finally, Volcarona sheer balance breaking power and sweeping potential are just too much to be lower than A. Buginium Z tears apart any team without Toxapex atm with its ability to get past Heatran, Gastrodon, and Zygarde without punishment. Even when you do face a Toxapex, most of them are Payapa Berry atm, meaning they are much easier to wear down. Psychium Z paired with something like Knock Off Tornadus-T can still win against Payapa Pex teams. Besides, good Volcarona teams have a plan against Toxapex, either with a lure or another breaker to crush these fat teams.
Keep Volcarona A.

 

[Scuba Diver]

I’d like to chime in my support for raising Charizard-X to B+

The general decline of physically defensive Landorus-T should immediately be capitalized on by Charizard-X builds. In a similar vein to Volcorona, Charizard is a cyclical mon that falls in and out of favor and atm all meta trends are favorable to Zard. There are simply too many threats to account for with any build and I think for the next month or so Zard X can capitalize on all these balance builds that just drop to it. 3 Attacks DD really appreciates Clefable being the preferred rocker atm while simultaneously the support your own Wish Clef brings it.

 

[Skuntank3800]

As I will stay on the traditional for rising with good potential both very dangerous.

I nominated Gyarados from B+ to A-

He have an bulk earlier correct but he is very weak by

type as long as it is not mega evolve, but with acess to Dragon Dance stay dangerous as soon as he is placed. Grace his

move Earthquake he hurts to Tapu Koko even though he has the Shuca Berry once that is used, even with Z-Bounce he can send Toxapex to 18% chance without the rock to the OHKO once Gyarados is placed +1 in physical attack. Well is an good sweeper that stay unstoppable once that speed is up at +1 with Dragon Dance and more with access like ability Moxie who give an boost at his physical attack at +1 at each kill. Despite it mega evolve he lost his

type which give the

type it becomes less good in the face of

type, Certainly he will remain an sweeper very surprising even see a future A- due to the fact that he remains dangerous in the meta.

 

[Mellow]

+

Rain to B

Rain has a lot of things going against it right now. I tried to write this as a paragraph first but there is seriously a lot of shit in the meta that makes Rain worse so I'm gonna bullet point it.

• Gastrodon is super good
• Toxapex is running Payapa more often so Lele variants can't kill it as easily
• Tangrowth is the best it's been in a long time
• Bulu has had yet another surge in usage thanks to the discovery of SpDef SD
• Tornadus-T is common as shit and benefits from rain making Hurricane never miss and can switch into Kartana (commonly found on Rain teams)
• The Mega Lati twins are pretty popular and are annoying for rain to deal with
• Charizard Y is picking up in usage too which replaces your weather and generally just has no switchins
• Mega Alakazam is so good right now which is super bad for Rain as Mega Alakazam can Trace Pert's Swift Swim and outspeed the entirety of your team and possibly just sweep if Ferro and Pert are weakened

An argument could even be made to drop Rain to B- because of the sheer number of things going against Rain, but I don't wanna be too harsh, so I'll stick with B for now. While we're at it, drop Kingdra to B- / C+ too - it's mostly outclassed by Ash Gren on Rain anyway so it should be below Pelipper + Pert as they're mandatory on rain whereas Kingdra isn't. The fact that Rain is ranked alongside mons like Zam, Gastro, Tangrowth, and Reuniclus just isn't right in my eyes. Anyway, now that I'm done raining on Pelipper + Pert's parade (xdd), I'll post my opinions on some other noms.

Volcarona

Do not drop this thing. While Toxapex and Gastro are problems for it, the fact that 100+ Scarfers that revenge kill Volcarona is limited to literally just Scarf Greninja definitely makes up for this. Pokemon that Volcarona can easily set up on like Tangrowth (Rock Slide isn't run), Bulu and Clefable are plaguing the meta rn, which is even more reason to not drop this thing. Keep Volcarona A.

Charizard X

Fire types are hot shit in this meta, especially ones that can break past Gastrodon, Zygarde, and Toxapex, like Zard X. This thing is just barely prepped for rn. While Wish Clefable + Scarf Landorus is fairly common, it's not even deadweight in that matchup since you're putting heavy pressure on them to Wish up Landorus pretty often. Charizard X to B+.

Charizard Y

Again, Fire-types broke. The slight drop off of Toxapex usage is really nice for Charizard Y - it just tears through Gastro balances like a hot knife through butter. Also, Tornadus-T is making Defog even less difficult to fit onto a team. Charizard Y to B-.

Mega Alakazam

An offensive check to Heatran? An offensive check to Heatran that is the fastest Pokemon in the tier? An offensive check to Heatran that is the fastest Pokemon in the tier and is also ridiculously difficult to switch into? Sign me up. As a side note, Alakazam also walls the new furry on the block if it's lacking Knock Off thanks to Trace copying Volt Absorb. Trace is such a cool ass ability - lets you wall non Draco Mega Latias thanks to Tracing Levitate, lets you get some passive healing in a PexGlisc matchup by Tracing Poison Heal from Gliscor if Toxapex has Toxic'd you, copying broken Regen from Tangrowth, Toxapex, Tornadus etc. Mega Alakazam to A- at least.

Tornadus-T

I find myself throwing this onto the majority of teams for the insane role compression it provides - I mainly use it a lot because if my Mega slot is already taken then it's like the good Kartana switchin that's faster than it. Y'all already know what this thing does, and I think it's misplaced in A. Tornadus-T to A+.

Mega Pinsir

LL said everything that needs to be said for Pinsir - teams opting to run Heatran and Tornadus over Celesteela. The increase in Tangrowth usage is really nice for it too. Mega Pinsir to A.

S and S-

Remove S-. The meta's gotten to a point now that I think the mons in S- could easily rise or drop, so I figured I'd give what I think it should like without S-.

S Rank
Landorus-T

Heatran (Shit is insanely difficult to switch in to, and again similarly to all the Fire-types I talked about before, the influx of Tangrowth and Clef gives this thing even more opportunities to come in and wreak havoc. Older sets like Steelium are being used again, further showing the versatility of Heatran. Also the meta has adapted to Lando to the point that Defensive is a little bit underwhelming due to Tornadus coming in for free, possibly chipping it if you're Helmet and they U-turn, and Defogging away your rocks)

Zygarde (I've already made my case for Zygarde to S (also would like to apologise for being a bit of a dickhead, I just got overly mad at Blace dropping lmao))

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Clefable (Clefable is the one I'm not 100% set on but I just don't think it quite measures up to the S mons in Versatility or Impact on the meta)

Ferrothorn

Ash-Greninja

Kartana (SD and Scarf has major difficulty breaking through anything at the moment due to the popularity of the Latis, Tornadus, and Magnezone to an extent. Banded does alleviate some of these issues, but I think it's other 2 sets getting noticeably worse is grounds for a drop)

Magearna

Tapu Koko

Toxapex

 

[Persella]

I only have one nomination:

A = A+
I think Tapu Bulu should rise to A+ rank because it is very good at the moment, especially the specially defensive Leftovers + Swords Dance, which is very omnipresent in current metagame teams, notably in the World Cup XIII. It is easily paired with current best OU Pokémon like Heatran and Tornadus-Therian and cie.

Some WCop replays

R1 Cdumas vs. FLCL: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-383068
R2 Hayburner vs. TheThorn: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-386282
R2 Jytcampbell vs. Blackoblivion: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-386270
R2 Cdumas vs. Sabella: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-386193

Opinion on other nominations:

A- = A+
I completely agree, Latios-Mega accomplishes a lot of things and is arguably the current best Mega Pokémon to have in USM OU.

S- = S
This pokémon is godly strong at the moment, I agree with a rise to S rank.

S- = A+
I disagree: Kartana is better than A+ Pokémon, I think we should only drop it in A+ if Kartana is alone in S-.

A+ = S-/S
Zygarde is really strong. It always reveals new and new sets in the time, and all of these are very good in general, therefore I agree with a rise to S-, nay S.

B+ = A-
Alakazam-Mega is very threatening at the moment, I agree with a rise to A-.

A+ = S-
I wasn't agreeing three weeks ago, but Clefable is damnly good at the moment, so I agree with a rise to S-.

A = A+
Tornadus-Therian is very good right now, and pairs well with strong metagame Pokémon like Heatran, Tapu Bulu and Gastrodon. I agree with a rise to A+.

C+ = B-
I can't disagree because this thing just detroy nearly all balanced teams without Toxapex, notably the current ones with Tapu Bulu, Heatran, Gastrodon and cie.

 

[Yasuo]

As I will stay on the traditional for rising with good potential both very dangerous.

I nominated Gyarados from B+ to A-

He have an bulk earlier correct but he is very weak by

type as long as it is not mega evolve, but with acess to Dragon Dance stay dangerous as soon as he is placed. Grace his

move Earthquake he hurts to Tapu Koko even though he has the Shuca Berry once that is used, even with Z-Bounce he can send Toxapex to 18% chance without the rock to the OHKO once Gyarados is placed +1 in physical attack. Well is an good sweeper that stay unstoppable once that speed is up at +1 with Dragon Dance and more with access like ability Moxie who give an boost at his physical attack at +1 at each kill. Despite it mega evolve he lost his

type which give the

type it becomes less good in the face of

type, Certainly he will remain an sweeper very surprising even see a future A- due to the fact that he remains dangerous in the meta.

You didn't state a single fact that mentions what has changed in order to warrant a rise for Gyarados. Pretty much all you do is telling us things we already know like it's moveset and it's typing/weaknesses.
Another thing that should be said is that one shouldn't include theorymoning and predictions for the future into the argumentation.
Please make sure you know the rules and requirements for nominating rises/drops next time :)

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

You didn't state a single fact that mentions what has changed in order to warrant a rise for Gyarados. Pretty much all you do is telling us things we already know like it's moveset and it's typing/weaknesses.
Another thing that should be said is that one shouldn't include theorymoning and predictions for the future into the argumentation.
Please make sure you know the rules and requirements for nominating rises/drops next time :)

What you said.

Gyarados at least appreciates the rise of Heatran, as it can check it, so long as it doesn't use Toxic or Taunt, but that's the only big trend I can think of off the top of my head that would argue for a rise. Toxapex dropping slightly might also help it, but nowhere near as much.

Not taking sides here, but at least trying to start a more appropriate conversation.

 

[Draceius]

Breaking my lurking streak to sort of weigh in on this since a month ago when the Mega lati@s balance/BO trend was gaining a lot of momentum I built a team around Mega Gyarados, sd bulu and wish clef in order to capitalise on the fact Gyarados checks (and sometimes completely walls) Heatran, mega lati@s (depending on coverage) etc and using wish support to keep it health so it could continually come in on Heatran.

What I found out of this was despite Mega Gyarados having a great matchup vs Heatran, gastrodon (after mega) and latios while enjoying the decline of toxapex is that the figurative omnipresence of Tapu Bulu and Clefable paired with the aforementioned mons and them just being splashed on most teams anyway meant that Gyarados ended up not doing too much in a lot of games without me playing hyper aggressively and I found myself in situations multiple times where I would like both the non mega and mega'd form all at once, and keeping gyara healthy felt like a hinderance. Its likely some of this is down to shortcomings as a player but I definitely feel after testing it that its position in the meta hasn't changed but rather the mons it struggles with have shifted to a different set of things common in the current meta. Checking heatran doesnt mean much when clef always walls m-gyara and is so easy to keep healthy, +1 waterfall doesnt even do above 50.

Anyway, I think m gyara (and the z move gyara, nothing checks and counter wise has changed for this) is fine in its rank and I'll edit this with replays, calcs and set variations I tried when Im actually by a computer.

 

[Real PHeal Spheal]

Kommo-o -> C

Kommonium Z grants Kommo-o an omniboost in addition to a nuke, which in addition to solid additional setup in Dragon Dance allows Kommo-o to be a devastating setup sweeper, especially under screens.

However, this is not why I'm nominating Kommo-o. The actual reason why I believe this Mon deserves to be ranked is a new set which started popping up recently: SubBDrum Kommo-o.
The instant threat the KommoZ sets bring to the table frequently cause switches into fairy types, which allow this set to get a free substitute up.
In addition to these switches, decent typing as well as a fantastic ability in Bulletproof allow it to safely set up on various common pokemon in the meta such as Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, Mega Venusaur, ice beam-less ashgreninja and hurricaneless Pelipper (and Zmoveless blacephalon, but let's not pretend Blacephalon is a mon) in addition to choice-locked Pokemon.
A salac berry allows it to reach a respectable 442 Speed, outpacing all of the meta's unboosted and unscarfed mons; whereas the sheer recovery +6 drain punch provides, in combination with a possible Substitute still being up, can make it deceptively tricky to revengekill.
A variety of coverage moves in Earthquake, Poison Jab, Iron Head, Thunderpunch and also allows it to more or less choose its' walls and allow it to be tweaked to fit teams' needs.

While it struggles to get past various common Pokemon, such as LandoT, unaware Clefable and Tankchomp for example, the sheer threat Kommo-o displayss after a single free turn, which it can get without too much trouble against many teams, certainly warrants a C ranking.

SubDrum Kommo-o in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-758589440 (edit: link fixed)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-765530795

My team in these replays may be memey, but that doesn't keep Kommo-o from doing work.

TL;DR: Kommo-o to C

 

[Dakress]

Kommo-o to C

Supporting your nomination and I would like to also mention how Kommo-o can use both Ferrothorn and Toxapex as setup fodder (Bulletproof blocks Gyro Ball and with Thunder Punch Pex is forced into healing itself allowing you to set-up, works pretty well behind screens/HO and it's tanky enough to live Scarg Greninja's Ice Beam before healing itself with Drain Punch. Also the link to your first replay is broken so you might wanna fix that.

I would like to say more things about the guy but I would be repeating what I already said about it months ago so...yeah. Fairies may check him pretty badly, but once you make it work, it does wonders, and that should make it worthy of being somewhere in the C ranks in my opinion, 4x weakness be damned.