Project USUM OU Victim of the Week [Week 49: Dragon Dance Gyarados]

[Random Passerby]

Approved by Celticpride
Co-hosted with Creator of Chaos
OP stolen and adapted from last generation's project of the same name

Art by Bummer

Every generation is different and the metagame is constantly changing. However, there has always been and always will be threats. Whether they are defensive threats or offensive threats, every competent player should have a way to handle top-tier threats. That's where you guys come in! This project aims to gather some of the common top-tier threats in the metagame and find Pokémon that can either check or counter them.

Procedure

1. Every round, I will nominate a Pokémon for discussion. Within ≈ 5 days' time, you guys will have the ability to discuss and nominate various Pokémon that you think can either check or counter the victim of the week.

2. I will post voting on Wednesday. Vote for your favorite check and favorite counter, and I'll choose the top two of each on Friday.

3. The results will be archived and the process will continue week after week.

Rules

1. Follow the definitions for checks and counters, by MattL in The Smog Issue 32!

2. Focus on posting OU-viable Pokemon listed in the SM OU Viability Rankings Thread. Nominations of Pokemon not listed in the rankings is allowed, provided that it is backed up by a replay of the Pokemon in action.

3. The first two days of a week each user can only post one answer. From then to when I start voting, however, each user can post another Pokemon as an answer.

4. Note that we require an explanation and set for the Pokemon that you posted. Of course we're not asking you to write a thesis but a paragraph of about 3 sentences on why your chosen Pokemon works will be sufficient.

5. If you want sprite, just copy and paste the following line, replacing 'pokemon' with whatever you want.

http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xy/pokemon.gif

6. We allow reservation of Pokemon in this thread. However, please write up your post within 6 hours of the reservation. This is to ensure that the project doesn't become a race of who gets to reserve the best check / counter first. After 6 hours has elapsed and you still have not typed it out, your reservation will be nullified.

7. Different sets of the same Pokemon can be nominated. For example, person a) can nominate Flyinium-Z Landorus-T as a check to something, while person b) can nominate Rocky Helmet Landorus-T as a counter to the same thing in the same week.

8. Help people out if you think they're wrong, but please be nice.

9. Post calcs if not obvious.

7. Have fun!

Archive

Week 1:

Protean Greninja

Checks: Toxapex (ethanlol ) / Mega Gyarados (Creator of Chaos ) / Slowking (TURBODERP )
Counters: Magearna (HotFuzzBall ) / Chansey (AM ) / Gastrodon (Rotom-Undefined )

Week 2:

Rockium Z Landorus-T

Checks: Mamoswine(Steel With It ) / Greninja(zCheshrye) / Pheromosa (HotFuzzBall )
Counters: Bronzong (Threw ) / Pyukumuku (TURBODERP ) / Quagsire (GnralLao ).

Week 3:

Shift Gear Magearna

Checks: Mega Charizard-Y (vsomani )/ Amoonguss (AbrarWasee ) / Dugtrio (zCheshrye )
Counters: Toxapex (Cheryl. ) / Chansey (GnralLao ) / Celesteela (HotFuzzBall )

Week 4:

Choice Specs Gengar

Checks: Scarf Tyranitar (GnralLao ) / Greninja (Empo )
Counters: Alolan Muk (Leooo_33 ) / SpDef Gastrodon (TURBODERP )

Week 5:

SpD Celesteela

Checks: Magnezone (GnralLao ) / Tapu Koko (Sunchipps )
Counters: Volcarona (Empo ) / Mega Sableye (HotFuzzBall )

Week 6:

Quiver Dance Pheromosa

Checks: Mega Pinsir (GnralLao) / Gengar (Ramses)
Counters: Mimikyu (Eclipse) / Alolan Marowak (david0895 )

Week 7:

Mega Metagross

Checks: Ash-Greninja (volx757 ) / Bulky Volcarona(Eden. )
Counters: Mega Scizor (david0895 ) / Skarmory (Futatsuiwa of Sado )

Week 8:

Mega Mawile

Checks: Landorus-T (GnralLao ) / Dugtrio (playerW17 )
Counters: Mega Venusaur (Leooo_33 ) / Bulky Volcarona (vsomani )

Week 9:

Choice Band Zygarde

Checks: Tapu Lele (Randomnick ) / Greninja (Leooo_33 )
Counters: Mega Scizor(david0895 ) / Tangrowth(Cheryl. )

Week 10:

Mega Medicham

Checks: Scarf Lele (GnralLao ) / Mimikyu (david0895 )
Counters: Mega Sabkeye (nameless90 ) / Mew (Martin )

Week 11:

Stallbreaker Tapu Lele

Checks: Gengar (Futatsuiwa of Sado ) / Bronzong (N01syBoy )
Counters: AV Magearna (Bill Cipher ) / AV Alolan Muk (Randomnick )

Week 12:

Toxapex

Checks: Tapu Koko (The Bill Cipher ) / Dugtrio (Futatsuiwa of Sado )
Counters: Reuniclus (matthewc20090 ) / Toxicroak (M BLADE )

Week 13:

Volcarona

Checks - Nihilego (écarlate) / Terrakion (askov )
Counters - Chansey (Futatsuiwa of Sado ) / Mantine (Leooo_33)

Week 14:

Mega Scizor

Counters: Zapdos (david0895 ) / Magnezone (écarlate )

Week 15:

Mega Pinsir

Checks: Celesteela (The Bill Cipher ) / Mega Aerodactyl (Eclipse )
Counters: Zapdos(Jucherz ) / Skarmory(Randomnick )

Week 16:

Ash-Greninja

Checks: Scarf Keldeo (Noveliss ) / AV magearna (nameless90 )
Counters: Tapu Fini (Riddikulusness ) / Chansey (Jucherz )
Week 17:

Clefable

Checks: Gengar (écarlate ) / Magearna (Martin )
Counters: Heatran (Funbot28 ) / Toxapex (Riddikulusness )

Week 18:

Mega Swampert

Checks:Mega Venusaur (The Bill Cipher ) / Ferrothorn (volx757 )
Counters: Suicune (Jucherz ) / Mega Slowbro (Aragorn the King ):

Week 19:

Zapdos

Checks:Scarf Nihilego (InvisibleWater ) / Mega Charizard-X (Randomnick )
Counters:Mega Swampert (matthewc20090 ) /Tyranitar (The Bill Cipher )

Week 20:

Mega Alakazam

Checks: Mimikyu (The Bill Cipher ) / Assault Vest Tangrowth (ayman x )
Counters: Specially Defensive Celesteela (Cheryl. ) / Chansey (écarlate )

Week 21:

DD Mega Tyranitar

Checks: Choice Scarf Keldeo(Randomnick ) / Breloom (Martin )
Counters: Quagsire (TURBODERP )/ Mega Slowbro (AGuyWithPants )

Week 22:

Mega Charizard-Y

Checks: Latios(ayman x ) / Tapu Koko (playerW17 )
Counters: Shed Shell Toxapex (Cheryl. ) / Mantine (PrideMustang )

Week 23:

SubToxic Heatran

Checks: Keldeo (nameless90 ) / Dugtrio (david0895 )
Counters: Rest Suicune (Martin ) / Calm Mind Tapu Fini (Jucherz )

Week 24:

Z-Wild Charge Tapu Koko

Checks: Ferrothorn (quziel ) / Lightning Rod Alolan Marowak (Steel With It )
Counters: Mega Camerupt(TURBODERP ) / Mega Swampert (InvisibleWater )

Week 25:

Mega Camerupt
Checks: Latios (Snorzd ) / Ash-Greninja (écarlate )
Counters: Mega Latias (david0895 ) / Chansey (Cheryl. )

Week 26:

AoA Mega Diancie

Checks: Ash-Greninja (david0895 ) / Dugtrio (BPGXMG )
Counters: AV Magearna (GnralLao ) / Chansey (Martin )

Week 27:

Calm Mind Mega Latias

Checks: Zygarde (Martin ) / Kyurem-B (askov )
Counters: Choice Band Tyranitar (Jucherz) / Toxic Chansey (Aecito )

Week 28:

Calm Mind Suicune

Checks: Tapu Koko (BPGXMG ) / Tapu Bulu (Martin )
Counters: Mega Venusaur (Muscle K ) / Mega Latias (david0895 )

Week 29:

Mega Venusaur

Checks: Mega Pinsir (Flygoner818 ) / Kyurem-B(King Sceptile )
Counters:Hoopa-U (Rasberry Pie SG ) / Mega Latias (TURBODERP )

Week 30:

Mega Lopunny

Checks: Choice Scarf Tapu Lele (écarlate ) / Choice Scarf Kartana (velocities )
Counters: Mew (david0895 ) / Toxapex (GnralLao )

Week 31:

Electric Seed Hawlucha

Checks: Zapdos (TURBODERP ) / Cofagrigus (Qplaz )
Counters: Unaware Clefable (david0895 ) / Quagsire (Le teamribou )

Week 32:

Swords Dance Kartana

Checks: Ash Greninja (Qplaz ) / Volcarona (TURBODERP )

Week 33:

Z-Celebrate Victini

Checks: Mega Camerupt (Sultan of Skook ) / Choice Scarf Garchomp(Martin )
Counters: Mega Latias (écarlate )/ Chansey (Akumeoy )

Week 34:

Mew

Counters: Heatran (Cheryl. )/ Clefable (david0895 )

Week 35:

Dual Hazards Greninja

Counters: Mega Sableye (GnralLao ) / Tapu Fini (ChrystalFalchion )

Week 36:

Choice Specs Blacephalon

Checks: Ash-Greninja (Martin ) / Weavile (Exploudit )
Counters: Tyranitar (david0895 ) / Mega Tyranitar (GnralLao )

Week 37:

OTR Stakataka

Checks: Keldeo (Jordy ) / Quagsire (Jucherz )

Week 38:

Life Orb Kyurem-B

Checks: Mega Tyranitar (LeNorm ) / Mega Medicham (Martin )

Week 39:

Assault Vest Tapu Bulu

Counters: Mega Scizor(RedCharizard96 ) / Skarmory(@stufful12)

Week 40:

Hazard Setter Ferrothorn

Counters: Mega Sableye (Martin ) / Zapdos (escarlata )

Week 41:

Flyinium Z Tornadus-T

Checks: Tapu Koko (Jordy ) / Magearna (escarlata )
Counter: Zapdos (LL ) / Toxapex (david0895 )

Week 42:

Nasty Plot Hoopa-U

Checks: Weavile (BladeofFriendship ) / Magearna (david0895 )

Week 43:

Choice Scarf Magnezone

Checks: Zygarde (Aecito ) / Magnezone (Gravelmouse )
Counters: Gastrodon (Flame from Heaven ) / Volcarona (Martin )

Week 44:

Gliscor

Checks: Gyarados (InvisibleWater ) / HP Ice Zapdos (Hubriz )
Counters: Kyurem-B (david0895 ) / Ice Beam Clefable (LL )

Week 45:

Sand Rush Excadrill

Checks: Ash-Greninja (david0895 ) / Landorus-T (MultiAmmiratore )
Counters: Rotom-W (mellowyellowhd ) / Celesteela (Altervisi )

Week 46:

Sheer Force Nidoking

Checks: Mega Latios (Eclipse ) / Mega Medicham (Moldes )
Counters: Chansey (wheitron ) / Gastrodon (Flygoner818 )

Week 47:

Calm Mind Reuniculus

Checks: Tyranitar (Flame from Heaven )/ Weavile (Martin )
Counters: Heart Swap Magearna (TURBODERP ) / Pursuit Mega Scizor (mellowyellowhd )

Week 48:

Life Orb Mamoswine

Hall of Fame

david0895 - 15
GnralLao - 11
Martin - 11
TURBODERP - 8
écarlate - 7
Cheryl. - 6
The Bill Cipher - 6
Jucherz - 6
Randomnick - 5

Current Victim:

 

[Random Passerby]

And we're off. Our victim for the opening week is Protean Greninja.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Extrasensory / Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Fire / Hydro Pump

Thanks to its ability Protean and having a movepool that is able to hit the majority of OU hard, Greninja is one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into. It is also not slow as a high base Speed of 122 makes it very difficult to revenge kill outside of Pokemon like Pheromosa, Tapu Koko, Choice Scarf users and Priority users.

How do you guys check or counter this Pokemon in OU?

 

[HotFuzzBall]

Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Aura Sphere

Magearna as a check/counter to Greninja. AV Magearna counters Greninja variants without Hidden Power Fire since Fleur Cannon will OHKO Greninja regardless of its typing and Hydro Pump 3HKOes Magearna assuming all 3 land. However, Hidden Power Fire from Greninja 3HKOes Magearna and Fleur Cannon has a 50-60% chance to 2HKO Fire-type Greninja (keeping in mind the SpA drop), but, Aura Sphere will have a high chance to 2HKO Fire-type Greninja.

252+ SpA Magearna Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Greninja: 141-166 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (Fire-type Greninja)
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Greninja: 171-201 (60 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Fire-type Greninja)
-2 252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Greninja: 85-101 (29.8 - 35.4%) -- 25% chance to 3HKO (Fire-type Greninja)
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4- SpD Greninja: 342-403 (120 - 141.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Pure Water-type Greninja)


252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 133-156 (36.6 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 118-140 (32.5 - 38.5%) -- 97.8% chance to 3HKO

 

[Creator of Chaos]

Man oh man do I hate greninja, I swear its even harder to handle now then back in ORAS with the T-wave nerf, lele everywhere and lack of fast megas. Anyway as Co-host I'm really looking foward to what this project and I'm keen to see what everyone gets up to.

Also So as nobody else steals the elephant in the room I'm reserving Gyarados

Mega Gyarados as a Check

Sets

Hide

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Substitute

Explanation: Tho requiring to mega evolved before switching in Mega Dos once this condition has been met can come in on virtually Any move atleast once with exception of Gunk shot while rocks are up and set up a dragon dance before Killing it back with waterfall or setting up a Sub. Even if it hasn't mega evolved as long as the switch is clean it can still do the Job. Extrasensory, Hidden power fire and Dark pulse do very little, Hydro pump is a clean switch and only Ice beam while it is still unevolved can hurt it.

While gyarados can usually beat gren it only gets 1 shot at it so make it count

Calcs

Hide

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 65-77 (19.6 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 149-177 (45 - 53.4%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO

 

[Sylveon.]

Magearna is pretty much the best counter imo, but still here's the next best thing,

Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpA / 128 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
EVs are tailored so as to nothing, not even hp fire 2hkoes while keeping as much special attack as possible. In return, thunderbolt 2hkoes regardless of typing.

 

[AM]

Isabella

Isabella (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Bell

Isabella, Lady Samantha Clefable's sassy yet sophisticated thicker cousin. Chansey just sits there, tiring Greninja out, with all her sass and subliminal hints.

 

[Rotom-Undefined]

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Toxic
(spread taken from the analysis)

Specially Defensive Gastrodon as a Counter.

Gastrodon can absorb every move Greninja throw at him, doesn't care about Hydro Pump and isn't 3HKOed by Ice Beam without rocks.

Calcs :
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 133-157 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 9.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gastrodon: 109-129 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- 43.7% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Empo]

sup. alolan muk as a counter here, since greninja doesnt rly hit hard this fat mon, which is v good because it checks a lot of things thanks to its cool ps + spdef stats + avest. set is pretty much the same everytime but u can run fireblast to hit steels in general such as ferro zor skarm etc

Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
- Shadow Sneak / Fire Blast

 

[pika pal]

Minor question, do the checks/counters have to account for every variation in the post, or can we post mons that deal with some versions based on coverage? I imagine this could be a notable point in terms of restrictions with mons like Greninja, who have a lot of coverage options within one set.

 

[GnralLao]

I'm glad this thread is back!

Jellicent as a Hard Check (if Greninja has Extrasensory) / Counter (if not)

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Recover
- Taunt

Before I begin, I just wanted to say I'm not 100% sure tthis is the best Jellicent set for OU, but at least, it does fine against Protean Greninja. Indeed, even with a physically defensive spread, Jellicent is able to take any hits from Greninja (not counting Dark Pulse as it's not on the victim's set) without being 2HKOed after SR, Recover off the damage, and retaliate with boosted Hexes via Will-O-Wisp or Toxic (or you could just click Will-O-Wisp / Toxic and spam Recover as LO recoil + Will-O-Wisp / Toxic damage will wear Greninja down pretty damn fast anyway). Added bonus, Greninja's strongest move against it, Extrasensory, transforms it into a Psychic-type mon, which, in the right circumstances, can make Hex strong enough to OHKO Greninja!

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 78-92 (19.3 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 140-165 (34.6 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

If Greninja is healthy and has used another move than Extrasensory:
0 SpA Jellicent Hex (65 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 91-108 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 91.2% chance to 3HKO

If Greninja is healthy and has used Extrasensory:
0 SpA Jellicent Hex (65 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 182-216 (63.8 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If Greninja is burned / badly poisoned and has used another move than Extrasensory:
0 SpA Jellicent Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 180-213 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn / toxic damage

If Greninja is burned / badly poisoned and has used Extrasensory:
0 SpA Jellicent Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 360-426 (126.3 - 149.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Exiline]

best answer.

otherwise you can use alomomola as a counter (it can still use spikes olol).

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

Alomomola can switch on pretty much every greninja variant (hp grass don't exist in SuMo) and provide wish and toxic support. It's also pretty hard to wear down due to regenerator.

 

[FullLifeGames]

Counter

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Toxic

If you remember early ORAS, you know how broken Greninja was there. People literally were scared of Greninja with veeeeery little being able to call themselves a Counter. One of these Pokémon was Porygon2!

The good thing about Porygon2 is, that due to its mixed bulk and light weight, it's able to take hits from both sides of the spectrum and doesn't have to fear that much about low kick like f.e. Chansey. This makes it a sturdy counter since otherwise your Counter / Check might just get destroyed by the right move in Greninja's arsenal or an other investment!

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 121-142 (32.3 - 37.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 133-156 (35.5 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 125-148 (33.4 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 122-146 (32.6 - 39%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Porygon2 Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 180-212 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Martin]

Greninja's busted.

All the most consistent defensive answers to this are gone zzzzz

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Scald
- Haze / Defog
- Toxic / Defog

Bold Mantine is a decent check to Greninja, being able to avoid the 2HKO from Gunk Shot whilst taking jack all from anything else that Gren can throw at it; it spams Roost until it is able to click Toxic safely, and from there it can stall it out. That said, it needs to be careful of the poison rate, and if Stealth Rock is up it can't take two Gunk Shots.

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 146-173 (39 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 16 SpD Mantine: 121-144 (32.3 - 38.5%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Random Passerby]

Minor question, do the checks/counters have to account for every variation in the post, or can we post mons that deal with some versions based on coverage? I imagine this could be a notable point in terms of restrictions with mons like Greninja, who have a lot of coverage options within one set.

In cases like this, I'd say you assume that the victim carries the coverage move (if it is present in the post) that hits your check / counter. After all, you'd need to be prepared for the worse case scenario in battles. If the move isn't listed on the set (for example, Dark Pulse on this Greninja), then feel free to disregard the move.

 

[pika pal]

Well, options a bit cut out for us, especially when I was late to give most of the obvious/secondary answers. Let me see

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power

Sub Kyurem-Black serves as an option to Soft Check Protean Greninja. With hazards off the field, Greninja falls just short of managing to 2HKO Kyurem-B thanks to Leftovers, while Kyu-B can 2HKO in return with neutral hits and has a chance to OHKO if it predicts a Protean change (Earth Power on Gunk Shot, for example). It's a shaky answer since Greninja outspeeds and Kyurem really needs hazard control if you don't want to play prediction games on the Protean roulette. It's a bit dependent on a Slow Voltturn or a revenge to get in and do this given Grneinja's greater speed, probably off another okay check like Magearna (I'm noticing something here about Greninja).

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 56 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-Black: 179-212 (44.1 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 177-211 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

(Neutral)
0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 158-186 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 145-171 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
200+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 217-256 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (uncommon given Ice Beam's spammability).

SE
200+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 290-342 (101.7 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 316-372 (110.8 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Aragorn the King]

Empoleon as a counter

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Defog
- Toxic / Stealth Rock
- Roar / Stealth Rock

Empoleon, thanks to its unique defensive typing and solid bulk, is fully capable of handling this Protean Greninja. It's completely immune to Gunk Shot, a move Greninja uses to decimate certain would-be counters such as Clefable and Tapu Fini, and resists Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Extrasensory. The only move on this Greninja moveset that hits Empoleon neutrally is Hidden Power Fire, and it only does 25.2% max to Empoleon, so it's pretty safe to say Empoleon can take multiple hits from Greninja. In retaliation, Scald always KOs Fire-type Greninja and 2HKOs Ice-, Poison-, and Psychic-type Greninja after SR. Empoleon's Scald also does more damage to Water-type Greninja than Greninja's Hydro Pump does to it, so when taking into account that, plus Empoleon's Leftovers and Greninja's Life Orb, plus Empoleon's ability to use Greninja as Stealth Rock, Defog, Toxic, and/or Roar fodder, it's clear Empoleon has the clear advantage while facing it.

If you consider other movesets, Empoleon can also OHKO Ground-type Greninja after using Spikes as well as Defog the Spikes away. However, this Greninja sometimes runs Low Kick or Hidden Power Electric (about 20% combined 1825 usage), the former of which 2HKOs Empoleon and the latter of which 3HKOs it assuming no prior damage. Additionally, while Empoleon can remove Spikes, it itself is vulnerable to them, leaving it potentially worn down.

Nevertheless, this Greninja runs the far more popular Hidden Power Fire, which Empoleon can switch into very easily and proceed to use whatever move the situation calls for to gain the upper hand against Greninja, making it a good, albeit niche, counter.

 

[Eclipse]

Glad this thread is back again

Slowbro as a check.

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Slack Off

Slowbro acts as a great answer to LO Gren provided that they're not running Dark Pulse (which isn't the most favorable move on Protean Gren atm but still be careful for it) as it takes most of its common coverage options very well and can throw out Scalds or even start setting up CM's against the opponent. This spread is to take one LO Protean Dark Pulse from full while also allowing Slowbro to check other threats in the meta such as Mega Metagross, which is huge in the current meta.

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Slowbro: 330-393 (83.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Slowbro: 110-133 (27.9 - 33.7%) -- 93.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Slowbro: 94-110 (23.8 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[TURBODERP]

reserving the KING

SLOWKING

Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind / Thunder Wave
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Psyshock

0 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 156 Def Slowking: 161-191 (40.8 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Slowking: 166-198 (42.1 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Unboosted Scald does little back, but since you avoid the 2HKO from Gunk, feel free to start setting up Calm Minds and boosting up. Sure, Greninja can poison you....but it's equally likely to miss Gunk Shot, and if you're running Thunder Wave you can just paralyze Greninja and make it easy for the rest of your team to handle. This set also checks/counters Lele, Metagross, Keldeo, Heatran, Magearna, and more.

 

[ethanlol]

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Haze

Toxapex is a good switch-in to Protean Greninja because it resists Hydro, Ice Beam, HP Fire, and Gunk Shot. Even if the Greninja has Extransory it still is not a 2HKO after the switch. Toxapex can use Greninja to recover and can wear it down using Toxic. Albeit Toxapex is used a lot on stall where you have Chansey anyway, but it's whatever :). Before I said that Toxapex tanks Extrasensory, but I wasn't taking into account the psychic stab. Extrasensory is the only thing it fears.

 

[Lemon Ginger]

IMO this is a pretty crap greninja set, so Mew is an easy counter:

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Roost

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Mew: 149-177 (36.8 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Gunk shot 4HKO

And if they're using a more worthwhile greninja set:
0 Atk Life Orb Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 127-151 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 80.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Or even:
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Mew: 218-260 (53.9 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Leo]

I'm blind lol

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Thanks to its nice special bulk and great defensive typing, Celesteela is able to stomach any hit from this Greninja set and use Leech Seed+Tect to recover its health. It can even use it as set up fodder if Autotomize but HP Fire will heavily dent it. A Set with Taunt could be more annoying, fortunately it's extremely rare.

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 104-125 (26.1 - 31.4%) -- 17.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Celesteela: 146-172 (41 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And if they're using a more worthwhile greninja set:
0 Atk Life Orb Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 127-151 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 80.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Or even:
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Mew: 218-260 (53.9 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

U-Turn Greninja O.o

 

[Random Passerby]

Just a reminder that you guys have 24 more hours to post checks / counters before I open voting. Oh, and you can get more submissions since yesterday so if you have any more ideas, shoot.

 

[Zebstrika]

Check: Volcanion

Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 196 HP / 252 SpA / 60 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast

Nothing outside of the EV spread and one of the STABs is actually necessary to check Greninja, I just like the Specs set since it can really punish the Greninja user by firing off some overpowered Scalds. If checking Greninja is your main priority, Assault Vest would actually be better, as it can even take on Specs Ash-ninja, along with handling various other threats like Volcarona, Charizard-Y, Magearna, and Automatize Celesteela.

Try to switch Volcanion into HP Fire, Ice Beam, or Hydro Pump, because those do almost nothing, or even heal Volcanion. It can switch into Extrasensory, Dark Pulse, or Gunk Shot, but it won't like it. If not running AV, each of those does over 40%, and the rare Grass Knot is a 2HKO.

Offensively, Volcanion will KO with Fire Blast once Greninja loses its Water typing, even without Specs. Steam Eruption works just as well, but with more accuracy, as long as Greninja doesn't run Grass Knot.

calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 196 HP / 60 SpD Volcanion: 40-48 (11.4 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
HP Fire is even weaker.

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 196 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 138-164 (39.4 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (28.5% to 2HKO if it poisons)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 196 HP / 60 SpD Volcanion: 148-175 (42.2 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 196 HP / 60 SpD Volcanion: 185-218 (52.8 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If Greninja is not Water or Grass type -
252+ SpA (itemless) Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 291-343 (102.1 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Assault Vest Volcanion:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 196 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 125-148 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 196 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 151-178 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO

 

[Random Passerby]

OK, submission period is over. Now's the time to vote. You may vote for 2 checks and 2 counters. Voting ends on Friday night where we'll begin Week 2. Thanks for the activity.

Checks:
Mega Gyarados
Mantine
Kyurem-B
Slowbro
Slowking
Toxapex
Jellicent
Volcanion

Counters:
AV Magearna
AV Magnezone
Chansey
Alomomola
Porygon2
Empoleon
Gastrodon
Celesteela
Mew
Alolan Muk

 

[david0895]

Checks: Toxapex and Mega Gyarados
Counters: AV Magearna and Alolan Muk