Great post but does it warrant mentioning that Mantine does learn Haze and it's a decent enough option on it?Mantine as a Hard Check/Counter
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
Pretty simple and straightforward. Since this Magearna set lacks Thunderbolt and Shift Gear is only Speed boosting functionally, it has no particular way to break standard Mantine barring the use of its Z-move, which still will not KO Mantine from full after SR. No other move it carries is capable of achieving a 2HKO after Stealth Rock, since Fleur Cannon will suffer the -2 and gimp follow up damage. Even if Magearna gets +1 off a KO, Mantine can survive a +1 Fleur Cannon after Stealth Rock on the "revenge" and Roost back up to stalling health, while Shadow Ball, the next strongest option, remains out of 3HKO after SR range even at +1 (barely 10% chance with Modest).
252 SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 214-253 (57.2 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 157-186 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 144-169 (38.5 - 45.1%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magearna Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 59-70 (15.7 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 213-252 (56.9 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 235-277 (62.8 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Magearna Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 96-114 (25.6 - 30.4%) -- 10.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Magearna Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 88-104 (23.5 - 27.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
The one scenario where Magearna is completely sure to beat Mantine is at +1 using Twinkle Tackle.
+1 252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 352-415 (94.1 - 110.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
I only debate Hard Check vs Counter since Mantine does have to be wary (if not necessarily afraid) of the Z-move, which is not just this Magearna's option but a fairly common one in general. That said, that is exactly one option this Magearna can use one time to try and break Mantine, and since it lacks recovery even Mantine's meager Scald is enough chip damage (especially with a Burn proc) to force Magearna out, it's not an option to fish for Fleur crits or anything. Mantine is a fairly reliable answer to non T-bolt sets for Balance or occasional Stall teams. It's important to keep Mantine healthy though since it lacks Toxapex's Haze to make things safe for the teammates and thus has to stay alive until the stop is no longer needed.
Should actually post the set instead of a bunch of calcs.Specially defensive Skarmory as a Counter
If you're not entering on Twinkle Tackle, this set counters Magearna perfectly:
252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 157-186 (47 - 55.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 105-124 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 130-154 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 87-103 (26 - 30.8%) -- 5.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 87-103 (26 - 30.8%) -- 5.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
If Magearna is Timid, you can take Twinkle Tackle + HP Fire (but not if there are rocks):
252 SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 144-169 (43.1 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 120-142 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
chansey's mine
I don't wanna sound butt-hurt or whatever, but I'm pretty sure my Quagsire nomination got more votes than Empo's Skarmory...
Anyway, here's my nomination for this week's victim:
Chansey as a Counter
Chansey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Aromatherapy
Chansey stops SG Magearna dead in its tracks, like many other special attackers, with its huge special bulk. Soft-Boiled is nice for recovery, T-Wave is super useful to shut down Magearna's sweeping possibilities, Seismic Toss 3HKOes after SR and Aromatherapy is a nice bonus to heal its teammates from status.
+1 252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 268-316 (41.7 - 49.2%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Magearna Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 146-174 (22.7 - 27.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Magearna: 100-100 (33.2 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
And unless I'm blantantly mistaken, JTD's reservation was posted more than 12 hours ago, nullifying his/her reservation.6. We allow reservation of Pokemon in this thread. However, please write up your post within 6 hours of the reservation. This is to ensure that the project doesn't become a race of who gets to reserve the best check / counter first. After 6 hours has elapsed and you still have not typed it out, your reservation will be nullified.
Yeah, that's correct. I snagged chansey before I went to sleep, woke up, too late, rip. It's all yours.From the OP:
And unless I'm blantantly mistaken, JTD's reservation was posted more than 12 hours ago, nullifying his/her reservation.
DoneShould actually post the set instead of a bunch of calcs.
Also reserving Volcarona