Metagame USUM UU - General Discussion & Trends Thread!

1st digression - Grass types : Free ecology



Grass types have a good niche in Underused. However, they're not as dominant as others types like Steel types, Fairy types or Dragon types. Even if Grass types are great to check Ground types and Water types, they kinda struggle to handle Dragon and Steel types. Some of them are really good offensive threats like Nasty Plot Celebi, Choice Band Tsareena, Sceptile-Mega or Swords Dance Decidueye while others are great defensive answers like Amoonguss or Chesnaught. Grass types can also bring utility to a team : Chesnaught is a cool Spikes user in Bulky and Balanced teams while Rotom-Mow and Tsareena can be used either for their access to VoltTurn or their abiliy to remove Entry Hazards thanks to respectively Defog and Rapid Spin. Also, Grass types isn't the best offensive or defensive type overall.

2nd digression - Ghost types : Spooky spooky



Ghost type is a really threatening offensive type in Underused since most of Ghost types have the right coverage to hit Dark types which are their biggest fear. The main issue with Ghost types is their ability to act as Spin Blockers which is kinda useful in team which need to stack Entry Hazards. In general, Ghost types are more used for their offensive capacities rather than their defensive abilities. However some of them may bring some support to some teams like Froslass which is in my opinion the best Spikes setter in the tier while Jellicent is a really good pick in some Bulky or Defensive builds. Unfortunately, Ghost types are weak to Pursuit which means offensive Ghost types can be easily trap.
 
Don't want to complain too much because you put a lot of work into your posts and they are really good, but you shouldn't forget to mention Seismitoad if you decide to add Quagsire, Pyukumuku and Swampert
 

justdrew

beauty in the struggle
is an official Team Rateris a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a defending SCL Champion
PUPL Champion
Another great post by Moute. A great member of the community that puts solid time and effort into posts that really help newer players. :D

I don't think Grass-types struggle versus Steel- and Dragon-types. Celebi can run Dazzling Gleam and Z Earth Power which both do a lot to both types respectively. Amoonguss can use both Spore and Stun Spore. Chesnaught can Drain Punch, Leech Seed, or Roar. Rotom Mow can Volt Switch or nuke something with Z Leaf Storm. Tsareena sets like Choice Band and Assault Vest have become much more popular in recent weeks. These sets can run U-Turn and/or High Jump Kick. Mega Sceptile can Dragon Pulse Latias and Hydreigon and Iron Tail Mega Altaria. It can Earthquake Mega Aggron before it Mega evolves ( probably won't happen but it could) and do good damage to Mega Steelix with Leaf Storm. And Decidueye at +2 can do a lot with its Z move from behind a sub. With stall being an extremely relevant archetype with two corner stones being weak to Grass, Grass-types have a strong place in the meta in my opinion.

| 79 | Mantine | 1.51473% |
| 80 | Jellicent | 1.45954% |
| 87 | Seismitoad | 1.21517% |
| 93 | Pyukumuku | 1.11277% |

Seismitoad gets as much usage as some of the other water types included in that post. It is definitely not the most useful Water-type since Rotom Wash rose to OU but it is still usable in the tier. As Pearl showed in his SPL game vs. Lycans, it can be used effectively. It isn't unranked on VR so I don't see why it shouldn't be on the list.
 
So many thanks to give, this site's awesome!
I noticed that single type anything isn't really prominent, at least in this meta. Figured you have to be VERY good to be as such, or be a complete package, like Queen Latifah (thicc grass) or Thunderkat (lightning fast offense). That's true no matter the meta (ou, uu, etc), no? Making sure I got a good grasp of what I read on this site. Such as "unviable doesn't mean worthless", and just because a mon is NU or whatever does not mean it can't have a genuine use if it has a place on the team, like Vileplume.
 
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So many thanks to give, this site's awesome!
I noticed that single type anything isn't really prominent, at least in this meta. Figured you have to be VERY good to be as such, or be a complete package, like Queen Latifah (thicc grass) or Thunderkat (lightning fast offense). That's true no matter the meta (ou, uu, etc), no? Making sure I got a good grasp of what I read on this site. Such as "unviable doesn't mean worthless", and just because a mon is NU or whatever does not mean it can't have a genuine use if it has a place on the team, like Vileplume.
I think it comes down more to there being more dual-type Pokémon than monotype. Having good stats and a large movepool are both qualities that tend to matter more than typing in most cases.

But you’re correct that unviable doesn’t mean worthless. There are plenty of RU mons that could put in work in UU, but (for example) they are considered unviable if something does the exact same or similar thing, but better.
 
Wassup guys ! It's been almost a month since I did my huge post about dominant types in Underused and I was thinking I could make another nice post which would show which Pokemon became staples in Underused or more used than before in recent months. Usages show the evolution of the use of Pokemon from May 2018 to January 2019. Purple usages are for high ladder while blue ones are for very high ladder.

Part I : The rising stars


Hydreigon :



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It was the king of the Underused in ORAS and it shares from now this position with Scizor and Latias. Since a few months, Hydreigon has become increasingly predominant in the tier. Thanks to its typing and its great Movepool, Hydreigon is able to fit in any kind of archetypes from HO to Stall. While its most used set is still the Choice Scarf one, Hydreigon has adapted to the metagame and can run a plethora of sets. Choice Scarf allows it to be a really nice Revenge Killer and a great offensive Pivot thanks to U-Turn while Choice Specs turned it into a powerful and threatening Wallbreaker. On the other hand, Hydreigon is able to run a lot of Z-Crystals such as Dragonium Z, Poisonium Z, Darkinium Z or more exotics one like Firium Z or Fightinium Z. Thanks to Taunt + Roost, Hydreigon can act as a great Stallbreaker while thanks to Defog it can remove with ease Entry Hazards which provides it a place of choice within Stall teams. Overall, Hydreigon is one of the best and versatile Pokemon in the tier and while it may struggle to deal with some Pokemon like Fairies or Blissey, it can still adjust and run Z-Belch / Flash Cannon or Superpower to lure its checks.

Krookodile :


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Since a few month, Krookodile knew how to stand out as one of the best Choice Scarf users in the whole Underused. Thanks to its typing and access to Pursuit and Knock Off, Krookodile is able to pressure some common threats like Latias or Celebi. On the other hand, its Ground type allows it to check Electric types and in particular Rotom-Heat which is a lot more used than before. While it struggles to deal with Fairies and Bulky Pokemon like Hippowdon, Gligar, Chesnaught or Alomomola, Krookodile can still bother them thanks to Knock Off. Even if its Choice Scarf set is the most common, Krookodile can also act as a nice Stealth Rock setter thanks to its acces to Taunt. Krookodile is also a prominent threat in tournament and has been using as much as Scizor in SPL.

Primarina :


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Primarina is another Pokemon which has become a staple in a lot of teams both in ladder and in tournaments. Its great typing allows it to check the dominant Hydreigon as well as other Dark types such as Krookodile. Its Choice Specs set allows it to be one of the scariest Wallbreaker to face while its Rest-Talk set allows it to be a great Bulky Water type which is able to handle a lot of hits without being passive. Both of its STABs are splashable and the fact that some of its check such as Empoleon are not as much used than before help it a lot.

Terrakion :


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Since the rise of Gliscor in OU, Terrakion became of the greatest Wallbreaker in the tier. While it doesn't like the fact that Scizor and Latias are a lot used in Underused, Terrakion great typing and statistics allow it to pressure a plethora of Pokemon in the tier. There is only a few Pokemon which are able to stomach its attacks. While its Choice Band set allows it to hit directly hard, its Swords Dance sets are able to pressure even more defensive threats thanks to Z-Moves such as All-Out Pummeling or Continental Crush. Terrakion is a great Balanced breaker and a dominant threat in the current metagame where Balanced teams represent more than one third of the teams used.

Altaria-Mega :


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I already talked a lot of Altaria-Mega : here and here. Altaria-Mega is one the best Pokemon in the current tier. Thanks to its typing and great Bulk, it's able to stomach a lot of hits and handle a lot of threats such as Latias, Krookodile, Hydreigon, Kommo-o, Infernape, Manectric-Mega or Zeraora. It's also a pretty versatile Pokemon which can be used as a Sweeper, a Bulky Pivot or as a Support thanks to its access to Defog or Heal Bell. While it's not as much used than Aerodactyl-Mega in tournaments, it's way more used than it in ladder. Even its offensives sets are rather differents since it can be played with either Facade, Fire Blast, Refresh and has a plethora of EV spreads which allow it to handle what you want it to handle. For some players, Altaria-Mega became more effective than Togekiss in the current metagame.

Kommo-o :


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For a while, Kommo-o had a hard time imposing itself in the tier. While its Bulk is pretty nice, Kommo-o is kinda slow which means it can be Revenge Killed with ease by Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Hydreigon or Choice Scarf Latias. A few months ago, Kommo-o was mainly used with either Dragon Dance or with Substitute + Belly Drum. However, some players have started to play it as an offensive Stealth Rocks setter with Mixed STABs which allows it to take full advantage of its signature move : Clanging Scales. Thanks to this set, Kommo-o has become a prominent staple especially in some HO where it replaced Mamoswine. Thanks to its great Bulk and typing, Kommo-o is able to handle Pokemon such as Zeraora or Bisharp. Thanks to Taunt, it can prevent Defog users to get rid of its Stealth Rock. It's also useful vs Bulky Pokemon which can recover such as Hippowdon or Gligar. Overall, Kommo-o became much more viable by being able to bring a ton of support to some archetypes.

Celebi :


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With the decline of Muk-Alola in usages, Celebi was able to get rid of Earth Power and Groundium Z in favour of Dazzling Gleam and Psychium Z. Thanks to it, Celebi is now able to pressure Hydreigon but also Latias. Psychium Z allows it to nuke with ease a lot of Pokemon after a Nasty Plot and even Pokemon like Scizor can't handle a +2 Shattered Psyche. Thanks to Dazzling Gleam, Hydreigon need to be much more careful now since it cannot switch securely on Celebi anymore. This change is a very good example that illustrates how a Pokémon can adapt to the metagame.

Rotom-Heat :


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Rotom-Heat is a Pokemon which has recently exploded in terms of usage. Players use it a lot both on the ladder and in tournaments where it's currently the fourth most used Pokemon in SPL, ex æquo with Aerodactyl-Mega. This is due to its typing, it's ability Levitate and the fact that it's a Pokemon which can act as a Defogger and a nice Pivot thanks to Volt-Switch. Thanks to its typing, Rotom-heat is able to handle Pokemon such as Scizor, Moltres or Mamoswine. Thanks to Toxic or Will-O-Wisp, Rotom-Heat is able to bother common Switch-ins such as Latias, Hydreigon, Kommo-o or Hippowdon. While Rotom-Heat is a cool Pokemon, it still struggle to be effective in the long run since it doesn't have a way to heal itself outside of its item or Pain Split. Thus, it's pretty easy to wear it down with chip damages or Stealth Rock damages.

Gligar :


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Gligar is another Pokemon which has benefited of the rise of Gliscor in OU. Since UU players can't play anymore Gliscor they turned to its little brother : Gligar. While Gligar isn't as good as Gliscor, it's still a Pokemon which has carved itself a pretty solid niche in UU as a nice Stealth Rock setter or Defogger. Thanks to Eviolite, Gligar has a really good Bulk which allows it to handle dominant threats such as Choice Band Scizor, Choice Band Terrakion, Cobalion, Doublade, Klefki, Hippowdon or Zeraora. Its great typing and nice Movepool allows it to be an effective support for a lot of teams by being able to act as a Pivot thanks to U-Turn or by being able to bother defensive threats thanks to Knock Off or Toxic.


Well, that's all for today. I hope this post may helps beginners to understand how UU has changed since a few months. I'll make another post in a few days or weeks which will talk about Pokemon which has fall in usage or are less effective than before. Thanks for reading me ! :toast:
 
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Hey, it's been more than 2 weeks since my last post on this thread. It's time to close the loop with this post to talk about Pokemon which has fall in usage or are less effective than before. Like the post above, usages show the evolution of the use of Pokemon from May 2018 to January 2019. Purple usages are for high ladder while blue ones are for very high ladder.

Part II : The fallen angels


Togekiss :



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Togekiss is a Pokemon which struggles more and more in the current metagame. Players prefer to use Primarina or Mega Altaria as their Fairy-type and Togekiss falls in usage. Togekiss also struggles in this metagame with its weakness to Stealth Rock which prevent it to be as effective as it would like to handle Pokemon like Hydreigon or Krookodile. Its weakness to Stealth Rock forces it to use Roost more often than it would want it in order to be able to check some Pokemon in the long run. However, it still stand-out as an amazing Stallbreaker.

Empoleon :


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Even if Empoleon is still a good Pokemon, it struggles a bit in the current metagame. While it can still check pretty effectively Pokemon like Latias with either Dragonium Z or Choice Scarf, Choice Scarf Hydreigon or Primarina, it struggles to handle Electrium Z Latias and may be lure by some variants of Hydreigon with Taunt + Roost or odd Z-Moves. Its lack of recovery outside of its Leftovers is also annoying since it can be chipped and it has small 4 MSS ; indeed it has to choose between Scald, Toxic, Protect, Knock Off, Roar, Defog, Stealth Rock etc..

Mamoswine :


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Mamoswine isn't anymore the pick of choice in HO to set Stealth Rocks. As I explained in my previous post, Kommo-o is a better pick in HO in the current metagame as a Stealth Rock setter since it can bother more than Mamoswine bulky teams thanks to Taunt and its mixed STABs. Mamoswine also struggle vs Rotom-Heat which can handle with ease its STABs. Since Mamoswine can't set its Stealth Rock vs Rotom-Heat, it has to run instead an attack to punish it like Knock Off or Stone Edge which means it can't be played with Stealth Rocks. Overall, Mamoswine is still a scary wallbreaker but the metagame isn't in its favor at all.

Mega Manectric :


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InvejaMata made a great meme which summarizes pretty well the situation in which Mega Manectric finds itself. Now that Gligar is really used in Underused, Mega Manectric must be played with Hidden Power Ice in order to pressure it. Since Rotom-Heat and Zeraora are also common, Mega Manectric struggle to establish itself as the reference Electric-type in Underused. While Zeraora doesn't take Mega-Evolution slot and has access to useful moves such as Grass Knot, Knock Off or Taunt ; Rotom-Heat stands-out thanks to its typing, ability and access to pivot as a great revenge killer to Scizor. On the other hand, Latias, Hydreigon and Krookodile are all pretty common and they can check effectively Mega Manectric thanks to their typing. Mega Manectric also struggles as the Mega-Evolution of choice since Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Altaria stand out as really solid picks too.

Klefki :


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Just like Kommo-o replaced Mamoswine as Stealth Rock setter in HO, Froslass has become a really great pick since a few weeks/months and it is more used than Klefki during the month of January. Like Mamoswine, Klefki is still a good Pokemon in Underused but it faces more competition than before and players will usually pick Froslass since it's a great Suicide Lead. Klefki also struggle to handle Rotom-Heat and Gligar which are great staples at the moment. However, Klefki is still a great pick to handle several threats such as Latias or Hydreigon.

Muk-Alola :


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Muk-Alola has suffered a lot from the changes of the metagame. A few months ago, it was a key figure of the UU metagame by being able to handle and trap CM Latias but also by being able to check a huge majority of the special threats. However, things have changed and now Muk-Alola struggles to stand out as the Pursuit Trapper of choice in a team. Indeed, it faces competition from others Pursuit users such as Choice Band Scizor, Mega Aerodactyl and the super common Choice Scarf Krookodile which is definitively better in the current metagame thanks to its speed, ability and Ground-type. It's still really good to handle threats it is supposed to check but most of the time players will opt for a Pokémon easier to build around and which requires less support.

Chandelure :


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A few months ago, Chandelure was more used than Gengar but trend was reversed and know, thanks to its better typing and speed, Gengar is prefered to Chandelure. Hydreigon and Krookodile has become staples which can pressure really hard Chandelure. While Krookodile is able to pursuit trap Chandelure, Hydreigon can handle its STABs and even check it in the long run if it runs Roost. Chandelure can still act as a check to Scizor and as a cool Stallbreaker with its Substitute + Calm Mind set but it's definitively not as good as before.


Once again, that's all for today. I hope I've been clear and that post may help players to understand why some Pokemon have become less good and/or less used. Thanks for your time, see ya !
 
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pokemonisfun

Banned deucer.
1760 (glicko, not Elo, our monthly statistics are based off of Glicko while our rankings are based off of Elo) ladder trends regarding our S rank Pokemon for January to February:

Scizor
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  • Choice Band Scizor is dropping in sizable way. Choice Band was on 36.1% of all Scizor in January and in February it dropped to 27.7%. That's almost one quarter drop of all Scizor.
  • Replacing Choice Band has been an increase in Swords Dance sets and a surge in Choice Scarf sets. February is the first month I found that had enough Choice Scarf usage to register in the monthly stats at 4.7%. Meanwhile, Swords Dance sets increased by 10%, from 55.0% of all Scizor in January to 60.8% of Scizor in February.
  • Thus, Swords Dance remains the dominant set of our UU King (Scizor in general is used almost 50% more than the #2 used Pokemon, Hydreigon).
  • And his dominance shows no sign of slowing, increasing in total usage by almost 10% from 40.2% in January to 43.5% in February.
  • Quick Attack hasn't registered on the usage stats since September 2018, where it got 11.4% usage. Still, it seems offensive SD Scizor is much more common than defensive SD Scizor with Leftovers only at 15.1% compared to the more common combined Iron Plate and Life Orb (although none of these necessitate SD).


Latias
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  • Adrenaline Orb has been picked up by the usage stats for the first time in February clocking in at 2.7% of all Latias.
  • The UU Queen still has two main directions in terms of sets - Choice Scarf which came in at 28.0% this month and Calm Mind which came in at 48.3% of all sets (there's a slight chance people use both on the same set with Trick but that seems small enough to ignore). Neither set saw a huge change in frequency although Choice Scarf did become about 10% less frequent (down from 31.0% last month).
  • In terms of Z moves, Electrium and Dragonium have both been around 20% usage for the past several months, it just so happens in February Electrium edged out Dragonium this month. Psychium remains rare at only 2.2% usage.
  • By far Latias' top teammate (controlling for actual usage) has been Sharpedo Mega for the past two months. Of all teams that had Sharpedo-Mega, 29.9% of them had a Latias in February. It appears Latias is solidly an offensive Pokemon.
  • The UU Queen hasn't been #2 in usage since November 2018 when she was used on 25.4% of all teams. She's been replaced as #2 by Hydreigon while fighting to stay in the top 5 with Primarina and Rotom-H.


Hydreigon
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  • Hydreigon spent February solidifying its place as the UU #2, on 30.6% of teams. That's a small increase from last month but still more than 50% higher than the UU #3, Primarina, which is at 19.7% usage.
  • All of Hydreigon's sets are remaining relatively stable since last month. Choice Scarf is still dominant now at 61.7% of all Hydreigon. Unsurprisingly, the top three counters to Hydreigon are two fairies (Primarina and Mega Altaria) and Blissey - people don't seem to be deterred by surprise Hydreigon sets. This is justified as Steelium and Poisonium have a combined usage of under 3.3%.
  • Taunt Hydreigon hasn't registered in the usage stats since November 2018 where it was at 5.6% (I believe moves stop registering once below 5.0%).
  • Walls should still be wary, as it appears Focus Energy is still around as Scope Lens in February is at 2.3%.


Overall the most interesting trends for me are:
  • The ladder has picked up Choice Scarf Scizor and Adrenaline Orb Latias
  • The ladder has maintained, if barely, Scope Lens Hydreigon
  • Latias in terms of usage is now roughly tied with Primarina and Rotom-Heat
  • Choice Band Scizor has dropped off
And one bonus trend: although Echoed Voice Primarina has cooled off significantly since December 2018, where it got around 20% usage, it's still sticking around with 12.6%. Remember to use Metronome item if you're using this set!

In the future, I would love for our analysis and debates to be grounded in empirics, instead of us just half assing and calling things metagame trends because we lost to it once on the ladder. I'm not criticizing anyone in particular, apart form maybe myself because I do that a lot, but I do think it makes for a more productive forum.
 
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I'm rather new to this whole smogon thing, I've played showdown before in gen 6 but I'm just now getting back into it and I'm wondering where is the forum post about UUBL I'm curious about the reasoning behind each ban and when we can talk about bringing them back into UU. Sorry if this isn't the right place for this type of question (꒪⌓꒪)
 
I'm rather new to this whole smogon thing, I've played showdown before in gen 6 but I'm just now getting back into it and I'm wondering where is the forum post about UUBL I'm curious about the reasoning behind each ban and when we can talk about bringing them back into UU. Sorry if this isn't the right place for this type of question (꒪⌓꒪)
Usually unbans are discussed on the NP thread. That said, there's pretty solid reasoning as to why each UUBL mon is currently BL, that, plus the current stability of the metagame makes an unban unlikely
 

pokemonisfun

Banned deucer.
What Smallsmallrose said is correct, but to answer your question directly boris69 - there is no single page easy to find compilation of every single UU tiering decision. There are tons of tiering decisions - public votes, UU council bans, council quick bans in beta, and council quick bans after tier shifts are the four categories I can think of.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tier-leaders-post-suspect-test-results-here.3520744/
That thread seems to have been abandoned before this generation even started.

If there's demand for this (and actually I think this would be an extremely good idea), then I would be happy to compile such a list (and this community has so many contributors I'm sure others would make it if you asked and if I don't do a satisfactory job / quick enough job).

So, would I be correct in saying your question implies you want a list?
 
What Smallsmallrose said is correct, but to answer your question directly boris69 - there is no single page easy to find compilation of every single UU tiering decision. There are tons of tiering decisions - public votes, UU council bans, council quick bans in beta, and council quick bans after tier shifts are the four categories I can think of.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tier-leaders-post-suspect-test-results-here.3520744/
That thread seems to have been abandoned before this generation even started.

If there's demand for this (and actually I think this would be an extremely good idea), then I would be happy to compile such a list (and this community has so many contributors I'm sure others would make it if you asked and if I don't do a satisfactory job / quick enough job).

So, would I be correct in saying your question implies you want a list?
YES I would love to read the reasoning and just get an idea of each mon and what it did when it was in UU. It would be a good thread as well to just discuss unbans too, like Mega-Gallade....
 
UU Banlist & Play Restrictions

I will try my best to summarize why UUBL Pokemon are banned from UU. I will mainly talk about why they have been banned because I don't think it's a good idea to do too much of theorymon on this kind of post. Feel free to correct me if I say something wrong ! I will talk about these Pokemon in alphabetical order.

You can also find all the "Stages" since the beginning of SM UU :

SM UU Beta (Mewnium Z, Staraptor, Victini banned)
np: SUMO UU Stage 1 - Feels Like We Only Go Backwards
np: SUMO UU Stage 2 - Countdown
np: SM UU Stage 2.1 - You're Welcome (Manaphy quickbanned - see post 92)
np: SM UU Stage 3 - Now Or Never
np: SM UU Stage 4 - Scary Monsters (Jirachi banned, see post #76)
np: SM UU Stage 4.1 - Shine [Weavile & Gardevoir-Mega banned]
np: SM UU Stage 4.2 - Paper Planes (Latias-Mega Banned)
np: USUM UU Stage 5 - Obsessions (Kommonium Z and Scolipede banned from UU)
np: USUM UU Stage 6 - Chanel (Ninetales-Alola banned, see post 19)
np: USUM UU Stage 6.1 - Échame La Culpa (Breloom unbanned, Buzzwole remains BL)
np: USUM UU Stage 6.2 - Reggaetón Lento
np: USUM UU Stage 7 - Too Good At Goodbyes (Azumarill banned, Breloom and Serperior remain UU)
np: USUM UU Stage 7.1 - Controversy (Breloom banned from UU)
np: USUM UU Stage 8 - Diamonds From Sierra Leone
np: USUM UU Stage 8.1 - Garden (Mega Venusaur banned)
np: USUM Stage 9 - Ready or Not (Bisharp, Latios and Latiosite banned from UU)
np: USUM UU Stage 9.1 - Dancing In the Dark

Alakazam :



When it was in Underused, Alakazam was problematic because it has an amazing speed coupled with a fantastic special attack which allows it to pressure a lot of offensive Pokemon. Thanks to its movepool with Psychic, Psyshock, Encore, Recover, Calm Mind, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Hidden Power Fire, Counter or even Dazzling Gleam and Energy Ball, it was able to pressure a lot of archetypes. Its ability Magic Guard is also a incredible ability which allows it to be a really good revenge killer which doesn't care about Entry Hazards but also a powerhouse thanks to Life Orb.

Alakazam had 2 sets ; one with Counter and Focus Sash and another with Life Orb an 3 or 4 attacks most of the time. Counter Sash Alakazam was a really annoying Pokemon because it was able to remove thanks to Counter, a threat of the opponent's team. Thanks to magic Guard, it was able to keep its Focus Sash even with Entry Hazards on the field which is huge. On the other hand, Life Orb Alakazam was a real powerhouse which was able to OHKO / 2HKO the majority of the tier. Even Pokemon like Blissey can't switch on Life Orb Psyshock and Steel-types were most of the time nuked by Focus Blast. Encore was also really annoying especially vs Bulky archetypes like Semi-Stall or Stall. Overall, it was tough to deal with Alakazam since both of its sets has differents checks and/or counters. Pokemon like Muk-Alola can check Life Orb Alakazam but if they trap a Focus Sash Counter Alakazam, it took the risk of being OHKOed by Counter.

Thus, Alakazam impacted a lot Underused and the metagame wasn't really healthy with it in it. That was for this reason that it has been banned.

Azumarill :



Azumarill is a Pokemon which was banned early SM and which came back in Underused about a year ago if i'm not mistaken. This Pokemon was really amazing thanks to its typing Water + Fairy and good bulk which allows it to check threats such as Hydreigon. On the other hand, thanks to Huge Power, Azumarill was able to act as a powerfull Wallbreaker. Even it it's speed wasn't great, it was still able to act as a cleaner thanks to Aqua Jet. It's movepool was pretty good overall with nice options such as Liquidation, Play Rough, Knock Off, Belly Drum, Aqua Jet, Perish Song and Whirlpool.

Azumarill was known to be a versatile Pokemon and had 3 sets. The first of them was Choice Band Azumarill and it was one of the best wallbreaker in the whole tier. Even Pokemon like Alomomola didn't like to take a Choice Band Play Rough and with Entry Hazards on the field, Azumarill was able to OHKO or 2HKO almost the entire tier. Then Azumarill can be played with (Z-)Belly Drum which allows it to be a nasty late game sweeper or mid game breaker. Thanks to Aqua Jet, it can finish off teams and break through wall with a +6 Play Rough or Knock Off / Liquidation. Finally, the most cancerous set of Azumarill, the mighty Sap Sipper Trapper Azumarill. Thanks to Sap Sipper, Azumarill had an immunity to Grass-types and was able to trap Pokemon thanks to Whirlpool then use Perish Song and stall turns with Protect and/or Rest. This set such a pain to deal with that Stall had to play around with things like Shed Shell Alomomola.

Overall, Azumarill was an incredible an versatile Pokemon. The main issue with it was that it had specific checks for each of its sets and it was really hard to deal with it if you didn't know which kind of Azumarill you faced. Like you could not send your non-Shed Shell Alomomola on Azumarill if you weren't sure that it wasn't a Perish Trap Azumarill.


Breloom :



Breloom was another nasty offensive threat. Thanks to its typing, stats, abilities and movepool, Breloom was able to pressure a lot of teams. Breloom was a versatile Pokemon which can be used with either Spore + 3 Attacks / Spore + Swords Dance + 2 Attacks / Toxic Orb Poison Heal + Facade or even with Z-Move such as Z-Giga Impact which allows it to OHKO Amoonguss after a Swords Dance. It could also use berries like Bluk Berry (90 BP Fire) or Ganlon Berry (100 BP Ice) to catch its check such as Amoonguss, Togekiss or Mega Altaria.

Like Azumarill, Breloom had specific checks for each of its sets. Without Rock Tomb, Crobat, Togekiss or Mega Altaria were pretty good checks to it but they need to play around Spore. On the other hand, Sap Sipper was a great way to deal with Technician variants of Breloom but it struggles to handle Toxic Orb Facade variants. Breloom was also able to act as a great revenge killer since it has one of the strongest and effective priority in the tier with Mach Punch. Bulled Seed was an incredible and powerful attack which was denounced because of the RNG factor. Indeed Pokemon like Latias which was a good check to Breloom can't check it anymore if Breloom got 4/5 hits on Bullet Seed.

This Pokemon was an issue with this RNG Factor and the fact that Spore on an offensive Pokemon was really dumb. Like Azumarill, players had to play specific things to deal with it like Safety Goggles Crobat...

Buzzwole :

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Buzzwole has been a really controversial Pokemon when it was in Underused. This Pokemon is the definition of a bulky sweeper, a Pokemon which can handle with ease a lot of hits and retaliate back thanks to its great attack. While it's typing isn't the best, Buzzwole got some solid coverage options like Ice Punch, Poison Jab, Earthquake or Thunder Punch. It also has access to Roost, Leech Life, Drain Punch, Bulk Up, Taunt, Focus Punch and Superpower.

Buzzwole was at the same time an offensive and defensive threat which can wallbreak or stallbreak with either Choice Band or Bulk Up + Roost or Bulk Up + Substitute while still being able to handle powerful hits from top tier threats such as Terrakion, Scizor, Mamoswine or Heracross. Buzzwole was such a bulky Pokemon that Stall actually didn't need a physical Pokemon with Unaware like Quagsire because Buzzwole was able to handle almost any kind of physical sweeper on its own. On the other hand, Buzzwole could pressure a lot of Pokemon since its Choice Band set was really hard to switch-in and it's set with Substitute were also really annoying. There was a joke at that time which said that "the best way to deal with Buzzwole is Buzzwole" which shows how centralizing this Pokemon was. It almost invalidates on its own the majority of physical sweeper which is insane. People were playing Flying coverage just to deal with it like Aerial Ace Buzzwole, Wing Attack Gliscor or even Z-Peck Mamoswine.

The metagame was not diversified with Buzzwole in it and that's why it get banned from the tier.

Conkeldurr :



Conkeldurr is a Pokemon which was in the shadow of Buzzwole. Since Conkeldurr struggled to deal with it, it wasn't a threat as long as Buzzwole was in Underused. However, when Buzzwole get banned, Conkeldurr became incredibly dominant. Thanks to the nerf of the Burn, Conkeldurr was now able to hold a Flame Orb with ease which allows it to abuse of its ability Guts. On the other hand, Conkeldurr has a good bulk and a great movepool which moves such as Drain Punch, Knock Off, Facade, Bulk Up, Mach Punch, Thunder Punch or Ice Punch.

Conkeldurr was known as a great Bulk Up user which allows it to hit super hard with Facade. On the other hand, Drain Punch allowed it to stay healthy threw the game and Mach Punch was a great way to revenge kill weakened Pokemon. The main issue with Conkeldurr was the fact that it was able to invalidate on its own Stall team which didn't have anything to deal with it. Facade was really hard to switch into and Drain Punch allowed Conkeldurr to not be stalled out by chip damages.

Since this Pokemon was way too hard to handle for bulky archetypes but also offense which failed most of the time to OHKO it, Conkeldurr got banned from UU.

Diggersby :



I don't remember quite well when Diggersby was in Underused since it got banned pretty early if I'm not mistaken. The biggest issue with this Pokemon is that, like Conkeldurr, it was able to pressure bulky archetypes really hard thanks its ability Huge Power and sets such as Choice Band Diggersby or Swords Dance Diggersby. Its typing was incredible offensively and its access to powerful STABs such as Return and Earthquake made it really hard to handle. It's speed wasn't the best but wasn't bad either since it was able to outspeed bulky and fat Pokemon. Thanks to Quick Attack, it was able to revenge kill or finish off weakened Pokemon. It can also bring support to the team thanks to Spikes.

Overall, this Pokemon was way too much for the tier.

Dragonite :



Like Diggersby, Dragonite is a Pokemon which got banned quickly. From its beginning, Underused has always had trouble dealing powerful Flying-types and Dragonite is a perfect example of this issue. Thanks to Dragon Dance and Supersonic Skystrike, Dragonite was able to nuke a lot of Pokemon. Dragonite also has an incredible ability : Multiscale which allows it to setup with ease on a lot of Pokemon. Its access to Earthquake and Extreme Speed made it really hard to handle or revenge kill.

Mega Gallade :



165 attack BS, 115 special defense BS, 110 speed BS.. a movepool which included Swords Dance, Close Combat, Zen Headbutt, Drain Punch, Knock Off and other options.. that's what made Mega Gallade way too strong for the Underused. Thanks to its special bulk, Mega Gallade was able to take hits from Pokemon like Choice Scarf Hydreigon and Choice Scarf Latias. Its amazing stat in attack allowed it to OHKO Alomomola with a +2 Close Combat and Stealth Rock damages.

This Pokemon was just too strong, too fast and too bulky for the tier and that's why it got banned.

Mega Gardevoir :



Mega Gardevoir got almost the same potential than Mega Gallade. Thanks to Pixilate Hyper Voice and its amazing stat in special attack, it was able to nuke with its STAB almost the entire tier. On the other hand, it had access to moves such as Taunt, Psyshock, Will-O-Wisp or Shadow Ball which allows it to deal with some of its checks like Doublade, Bronzong or Scizor. Taunt was also a really nasty option vs bulky archetypes. Even if Mega Gardevoir's speed isn't as high as Mega Gallade's one, it had a better special bulk which made it even harder to revenge kill on the special spectrum.

Gyarados :



Like Dragonite, Gyarados was a fearsome user of Dragon Dance + Flynium Z. It got two amazing ability : Intimidate and Moxie which allowed it to setup with more ease or allowed it to act as a powerful late game sweeper. Since it has a good bulk and good options of coverage with Earthquake, Gyarados was able to pressure almost the whole tier after a single Dragon Dance. Even if Mega Aerodactyl and some Choice Scarf users were able to revenge kill it after a Dragon Dance, it could be much more complicated if Gyarados managed to place two Dragon Dance.

Like the huge majority of UUBL Pokemon, Gyarados was just too powerful for the tier.

Mega Heracross :



Mega Heracross has the same issue than Mega Gallade. It's just a slower but bulkier powerhouse which can threaten even more the tier thanks to Bulled Seed, Pin Missile and Close Combat. Although people were using much more Mega Gallade than Mega Heracross when their quick passage in Underused, this Pokemon was definitively way too hard to handle for bulky teams.

Hoopa-Unbound :



This Pokemon got quickbanned and I don't think I have to explain why (tl;dr : it doesn't have anything in the tier which can handle it).

Mega Latias :



Mega Latias was a Pokemon that debated during its suspect test. Indeed, it wasn't as much dominant than the other UUBL. However, Mega Latias is extremely bulky which allows it to be a really dangerous setup sweeper thanks to Calm Mind. Thanks to Refresh / Reflect Type, it was able to setup on Pokemon such as Klefki, Scizor, Muk-Alola and this was a problem.

Even without SpA investment, Mega Latias was able to hit as hard as a regular Latias with 252 EVs in SpA. This Pokemon was also able to check a plethora of Pokemon thanks to its incredible Bulk. It was an amazing tool which provided a lot of utility and a lot of players found it unhealthy for the tier and that's why it got banned.

Latios :



Latias is already a S rank Pokemon in Underused. Latios is a stronger Latias and that was a real issue. Since it hit harder than Latias, Latios was able to get some amazing OHKO / 2HKO that Latias could never have done. For example, after a Calm Mind, Latios had a good chance to 2HKO Blissey with Psyshock which is insane. On the other hand, a +2 Gigavoc Havoc was able to OHKO Mega Aggron.

Latios was a bit too much for the Underused which already struggles sometimes to handle Latias and that's why it got banned.

Mega Latios :



Mega Latios is just a more powerful and bulky Latios so it's easy to understand why he got banned from Underused. Even if it can't abuse of Z-Moves, Mega Latios is an incredible powerhouse which was harder to revenge kill so that's why it leaved the tier.

Manaphy :



Manaphy is a strange UUBL. Indeed, it got quickbanned when it dropped to UU and UU players actually never had the occasion to really tried it. If I'm not mistaken, we were supposed to have a suspect test on it after it got quickbanned but it actually never happened.

I think it's not a big deal since it's pretty easy to understand why Manaphy was banned. It has a great bulk and access to Tail Glow which is probably one of the best (if not the best) setup move. It has some good coverage like Ice Beam, Psychic or Energy Ball which allows it to hit Dragon-types, Grass-types such as Celebi or Amoonguss but also Tentacruel and Water-types.

Ninetales-Alola :



Ninetales-Alola is probably one of the most hated Pokemon in the UU community (for those who were playing the tier when it was Underused). While this Pokemon doesn't have great stats or a great typing, it as access to Aurora Veil and the fact that it the ability Snow Warning makes it th best inducer of Aurora Veil in the whole game. Ninetales-Alola also has access to support moves such as Hypnosis or Encore and good offensive moves like Moonblast, Freeze Dry or Blizzard.

Ninetales-Alola wasn't an issue on its own but the fact that it was able to setup the Aurora Veil with ease in a repeated way was a problem since it was able to bring a freaking lot of support to Pokemon like Latias, Scizor, Suicune, Xurkitree which were able to setup without fearing to be OHKO thanks to Aurora Veil.

Since Ninetales-Alola was able to make setup Sweepers way too oppresive for the tier, it got banned.

Porygon-Z :



Porygon-Z is a powerful but frail wallbreaker. It had an amazing movepool which included Nasty Plot, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam or Shadow Ball but also Conversion which allowed it to use Z-Conversion.

Thanks to Z-Conversion, Porygon-Z was able to become more bulky but also powerful and faster thanks to the omniboost provided by the Z-Move. Z-Conversion also allowed it to change its type which allowed it to become either an Electric-type or a Ghost-type. This made it rather difficult to deal with since Electric-type Poryzon-Z and Ghost-type Porygon-Z didn't have the same checks. Thanks to its boost in defenses, Porygon-Z was also able to handle some hits and retaliated back or healed itself thanks to Recover. On the other hand, Porygon-Z was also able to be played with Nasty Plot and Z-Hyper Beam which allowed it to OHKO after a single Nasty Plot Blissey but also Mega Aggron.

Since it was hard to handle but also hard to foresee its sets or type after Z-Conversion, Porygon-Z got banned from Underused.

Salamence :



Welcome in the third and last episode of "Broken user of Dragon Dance and Supersonic Skystrike". Salamence looks like Dragonite and Gyarados, it has the same typing than Dragonite, the abilities of Gyarados and it has a similar movepool with options like Earthquake. It's also a bit faster than Dragonite and Gyarados.

Overall, Salamence had the same potential than Dragonite and Gyarados and there isn't a lot of Pokemon which were able to revenge kill it after a single Dragon Dance. Like its two friends, it got banned.

Scolipede :



Even if Scolipede doesn't have the best typing, it has a incredible ability : Speed Boost but also a great movepool which includes options such as Aqua Tail, Swords Dance, Earthquake and Rock Slide.

Scolipede was a pure nightmare to deal with for offense ! Thanks to Speed Boost and its great speed, it was able to outspeed almost the entire tier after a single boost in Speed. At the same time, it was able to boost its attack with Swords Dance and became almost impossible to revenge kill for offensive teams. On ther other hand, it was also a really good lead thanks to its access to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Endeavor which allowed it to set some Entry Hazards quite easily and then weakened a lot an opponent's Pokemon thanks to Endeavor.

Staraptor :



Here we are ; the BL Bird ! Staraptor is a Pokemon which has been BL for an eternity. Too bad to be in OU but too strong to be in UU, that's how Staraptor is. Thanks to its ability Reckless and powerful STABs : Brave Bird and Double-Edge, Staraptor was able to pressure really hard the Underused. As I told you before, UU always struggled to handle powerful Flying-types and Staraptor is no exception to the rule. Staraptor also has access to Close Combat and U-turn which allowed it to hit Steel-types and pivot. However, most of the time, it didn't need to use this moves since its STABs were sufficient to pressure opponent's Pokemon.

Since it was either a powerful revenge killer thanks to Choice Scarf or a super powerful wallbreaker with Choice Band, Staraptor got banned from the Underused.

Thundurus :



Thundurus was an incredible wallbreaker when it was in Underused. Its great speed allows it to outspeed Pokemon like Latias which is great and its access to Nasty Plot allowed it to be a powerful wallbreaker. Thanks to its movepool which included moves such as Thunderbolt, Grass Knot or Focus Blast, Thundurus was able to pressure Ground-types but also Blissey which can't handle a +2 All-Out-Pummeling. On the other hand, some players were taking advantage of its ability Defiant and played it as a pure physical breaker or mixed wallbreaker with Supersonic Skystrike + Superpower and/or Knock Off - Wild Charge.

Overall, Thundurus was a fast, powerful and versatile breaker which was hard to scout and handle most of the time.

Thundurus-Therian :



Even if in my opinion Thundurus-Therian wasn't as threatening as Thundurus, it was a more powerful user of Nasty Plot thanks to its extra +20 BS in special attack. Even if it was slower than Thundurus, Thundurus-Therian was still an insanely threatening Pokemon which was able to nuke Pokemon with either All-Out-Pummeling or Gigavoc Havoc.

Mega Venusaur :



While it's played most of the time as a defensive Pokemon in OU, Mega Venusaur shone in Underused has a dominant bulky offensive threat thanks to Growth which increased it's attack and special attack by one every time it used it. Thanks to Growth, Mega Venusaur was able to pressure bulky archetypes with its STABs : Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb. Its last slot was most of the time Hidden Power Fire or Synthesis which allowed it to hit Scizor or which facilitated its setup. Some players also opted for physical sets with Curse and it was also a good check.

To sum up, Mega Venusaur was a really bulky Pokemon which had enough speed to pressure walls in bulky teams. Thanks to its stats and movepool it was able to pressure really hard opponent's teams while still being able to handle a lot of hits thanks to its typing, bulk and ability Thick Fat.

Weavile :



Like Alakazam, Weavile is a fast, frail and powerful sweeper. Weavile has a great offensive typing and insanely high speed paired with a great attack and fantastic STABs : Knock Off and Icicle Crash. Weavile was well known in Underused as one of the best pursuit trapper in the tier thanks to its high attack and speed which allowed it to outspeed Starmie, Celebi, Latias and a plethora of other threats. On the other hand, it was able to hit pretty hard thanks to Knock Off and Icicle Crash and was able to pressure faster threats such as Mega Sceptile, Choice Scarf Hydreigon/Latias and Mega Aerodactyl thanks to Ice Shard. Even if it was mainly played with either Life Orb or Choice Band, Weavile can be versatile since it had access to some nice coverage options like Poison Jab to punish Fairy-types or Low Kick to hit pretty hard Steel-types, especially Cobalion which was one of the best offensive answer to Weavile.

Weavile got banned from UU because it wasn't healthy for many players and it provided too much support. It was most of the time such a low risk high reward to click Pursuit vs Latias or Starmie which meaned that players had to pay too much attention to not lose Pokemon to Weavile.

Xurkitree :

163742


Let's end this post with in my opinion, the worst Pokemon we got so far in Underused : Xurkitree. This Pokemon has one of the best special attack in the whole game and access to useful moves such as Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Grass Knot, Tail Glow or Hypnosis which allowed it to pressure so much Pokemon when it was in Underused.

It's best set was Z-Hypnosis which allowed it to get +1 in Speed which mean it was able to outspeed every non-Choice Scarf Pokemon in the tier. Thanks to Tail Glow it was able to get +3 in special attack in 1 turn which allowed it to pressure almost every Pokemon in the tier. This Pokemon was often paired with Ninetales-Alola and was a nightmare to deal with under the Aurora Veil. It was able to 6-0ed Stall team even if they tried to adapt to Xurkitree with Pokemon such as Kyurem. Hypnosis was also an issue since it allowed Xurkitree to neutralize a foe which then allowed it to setup or just fire off poweful attacks.

This Pokemon got banned because it almost invalidated an archetype on its own which ins't balance at all.

Kommonium Z & Mewnium Z


I put this two together because they were banned for the same kind of reason. Kommonium Z is an exclusive Z-Move which allows Kommo-o to fire off a powerful Z-Move with 185 BP and then provides to Kommo-o an omniboost if the attack didn't failed. This Z-Move allows Kommo-o to be a powerful and bulky mixed breaker. Its best set was with Dragon Dance / Drain Punch / Z-Clanging Scales / Filler and allowed it to be a really bulky Pokemon which was able to setup even more with Dragon Dance. Drain Punch allowed it to stay healthy and Clanging Scald gave it a way to pressure Pokemon such as Quagsire or Alomomola. This Z-Move was an issue for the tier since it forced players to play a Fairy-type in their team if they didn't want to give a free setup to Z-Move with Clangorous Soulblaze. It gave numerous opportunities to the Kommo-o's player to predict the switch on Fairy-type in Kommo-o which allowed it to just click Poison Jab to chip those fairies. Kommonium Z was without a doubt a really low risk high reward Z-Move and that's why it got banned.

On the other hand Mewnium Z is an exclusive Z-Move to Mew which provides it a powerful Z-Move : Genesis Supernova which setup Psychic Terrain once it resolves. When Mew was in Underused, it was so hard to handle its set with Genesis Supernova. Since Mew has access to almost every attack in the game it was able to lure its checks with options such as Fire Blast / Flamethrower or Aura Sphere. It's access to Nasty Plot allowed it to be a powerful wallbreaker which was hard to revenge kill thanks to the Psychic Terrain induced by its Z-Move. It could also run Rock Polish and became almost impossible to revenge kill or Soft-Boiled / Roost to assist its setup.

Drizzle & Drought

Drizzle & Drought are banned from Underused because they were too difficult to handle. While Drizzle got some powerful rain sweepers such as Kingdra, Kabutops, Ludicole or Qwilfish ; Drought allows Mega Houndoom to take advantage of its ability Solar Power which allows it to pressure any kind of defensive Pokemon in the tier thanks to Nasty Plot.

Baton Pass

Baton Pass is basically banned from all "regular" tier.


I really hope this hope was able to assist some players. Thanks boris69 for the idea and thanks pokeisfun which let me wrote it. Feel free to provide more details if I forgot something. Thanks for reading me !
 
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How often do suspect tests happen for UUBL to come back to UU? Because I think I would love to try and move some of these mons back down here lol. Also care to explain why UU has such a hard time with flying types and what you think should change to resolve that issue instead of just banning the flying type threats. Also thank you Moutemoute for making this list, I loved reading it all, wish I was around to use some of these mons though.
 
How often do suspect tests happen for UUBL to come back to UU? Because I think I would love to try and move some of these mons back down here lol. Also care to explain why UU has such a hard time with flying types and what you think should change to resolve that issue instead of just banning the flying type threats. Also thank you Moutemoute for making this list, I loved reading it all, wish I was around to use some of these mons though.
Rarely. The only ones that have happened to my knowledge were the following:

Weavile (got banned again)
Azumarill (got banned again)
Breloom (got banned again)
Bisharp (still UU)
Mega Slowbro (dropped to RU then got banned from there so RUBL it is)

And like Mootmoot mentioned, I'm pretty sure I saw something a while ago about a Manaphy resuspect, but that never happened :I

that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Keep in mind, the majority of these were in the early stages of UU (like when people thought pidge was broke and thought xurk wasn't banworthy lol).
 

Sage

From the River To the Sea
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Just want to add a quick addendum to Moutemoute's excellent post so that the information in general is accurate as possible.

Venusaur wasn't primarily broken by boosting sets, which were the more niche options compared to its standard 3 Attacks / Leech Seed + Synth Set. Dropping Synthesis was crippling yourself for no reason and greatly limited what Venusaur could do as it is vulnerable to passive damage such as Scald burns and Sand. Boosting sets usually allowed Steel-types to come in more easily and get Hazards off for Checks like Crobat and Chandelure that could come in safely even with a boost or two acquired. The major factors behind Venusaur's ban was the risk vs reward of using it. Venusaur was able to blanket check an extremely large amount of the metagame by itself, allowing its teammates to build in very predictable and linear ways that saw the rise of archetypes like Venusaur / Empo / Kommo / Krook BOs, with most of the diversity focusing around what Venusaur check you were using (Kommo-o, Crobat, Chandelure, etc). While the boosting sets were a neat way to potentially win vs some checks, dropping Giga / HP Fire or a second support move often was hard to justify. I think the Curse set was a little more useful than Growth as it did open up some defensive utility with letting it check certain Fighting-Types more easily if they tried to hard in and boost vs it (Venusaur's massive bulk and overall presence forced its checks in almost immediately in a way similar to other UUBL mons like Mega Latias.) It still had problems as it drops the Poison move letting the myriad of Dragon-types like Latias and Hydreigon become much more applicable revenge killers.

So in the end the benefits of using Venusaur were just too much, and teams without Venusaur suffered greatly and were comparably much harder to build. I voted Do Not Ban in this suspect under the thinking that individually I believed the counterplay to Venu to be sufficient, and I can safely say that would have been the wrong decision in hindsight now. I like to think my opinion / conceptualization of tiering is more well-rounded now, and the Meta would have stagnated for the worse had it been left in the tier.

Been enjoying the renewed discussion here, keep it up :)
 
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I vote we take a look at some these mons again because from what I understand a lot of them were banned a while ago. I'm always in favor of using a lot of those mons some of them seem to be pretty good against stall which would be nice.
 

Nightingales

// FLY HIGH, STRIKE HARD
I vote we take a look at some these mons again because from what I understand a lot of them were banned a while ago. I'm always in favor of using a lot of those mons some of them seem to be pretty good against stall which would be nice.
A) Stall has enough issues as it is. We don’t need any more.

B) Things haven’t exactly changed for most of the things in the bans. Dragonite? Broken. PZ? Broken. Scolipede? Fun, but broken. I think some have gotten more broken, honestly. Just because things were banned a while ago, doesn’t change the facts of the bans themselves.
 
I vote we take a look at some these mons again because from what I understand a lot of them were banned a while ago. I'm always in favor of using a lot of those mons some of them seem to be pretty good against stall which would be nice.
Not to burst your bubble but there probably won't be tests of most of these anytime soon. There haven't been enough changes to the tier that would impact these BL mons in a negative way. There's also the fact that the tier is in a really stable state right now, and a retest would likely change the super diverse metagame we currently have.
 
Hello! I'm new here and I wanted to ask one question. 1. Can you ask about a certain Pokemon, for example; can you ask someone's opinion and advice about a Pokemon?
 
Hello! I'm new here and I wanted to ask one question. 1. Can you ask about a certain Pokemon, for example; can you ask someone's opinion and advice about a Pokemon?
You sure can! Though I'd check other threads in the forums before asking an obvious question. Also it's better to ask questions about specific mons in the showdown UU chat or the discord, in my experience.
 

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