Project USUM UU Research Week v2 (This week's picks: SubToxic Suicune, Scarf Celebi, AV Scizor)

#26
@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere
- Trick
- Roost

Here's the set I used for the only mon I picked this week. Air Slash is for STAB and that flinch hax, and Aura Sphere is to get the most type coverage out of two moves. Trick cripples walls by giving them your Scarf. Roost is to be used after Tricking (or if you force something out and just need to heal I guess??), as Togekiss's typing and stats are often too useful for it to be chipped down to worthlessness.

ScarfKiss has been somewhat "meh" for me. It gets the job done. No fireworks or pizzazz. Really the biggest thing going for it is the surprise factor. No one expects Kiss to outspeed things...most of the time, at least. Whether that's worth using over utility like Heal Bell or Nasty Plot is up to the team builder.
 
#27
Due to some unforeseens and internet issues I couldn't play that much this week but I tried Latias enough to have a conclusion about it:
Specs Latias is just not as good as other sets, it's powerful but most of the time it just struggles to break properly and often either gives free turns or gets easily pursuited, not to mention its 4MSS as you'd probably want to have acess to its coverage options (Surf, Tbolt, Ice Beam) and have Trick but it also kinda requires double stab to work so you have 2 slots to cover what you want. And it not only is very easy to Pursuit Latias after it gets a kill, it's quite easy to use it as a setup fodder with stuff like Scizor, Altaria and Cobalion as well, mainly when Latias is often forced to fire off a Draco Meteor to get a kill (sometimes you are literally forced to don't get a kill with a move because otherwise you lose to one of these mons, or it just requires your team good checks anyway). Not to mention most teams have good Psychic and Dragon resists and Pursuit is very common as well. Most of the time when I got Latias to do something in a game it was either because I crippled something by tricking Specs or because I got a nice MU with no good resists to one of its moves, otherwise it was just useful sometimes to weaken stuff in the early game that would either switch into it or stay in vs it (Empoleon, Steelix-Mega, Swampert, Klefki, Aggron-Mega, etc) but being choice locked is quite annoying most of the time, mainly after your opponent realizes that, and no recovery makes it a worse check for things it'd be fine against otherwise (Infernape, Celebi), which makes Calm Mind a more reliable and fairly much better set for Latias as I don't think Specs justifies use over it, as more initial power and the surprise factor weren't enough to make it worth.
 
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#28
I only put in 5 games, but I can still put my thoughts into the mons.

Screenshot 2018-12-23 at 12.47.31 PM.png


Used 2 teams, one made by me, and one recommended by my friend m00la.
Screenshot 2018-12-23 at 12.51.08 PM.png

So, for the one I made, with all of the mons we were given. I still used the same sets, Virizion was rockium z tho, I wouldn't recommend it though. Then added Maggron, tenta, and Mamoswine. Aggron had rocks while Mamoswine was just a more offensive LO set. While m00la's team was standard Bulky Nasty plot togekiss and Specs Lati. Instead of Togekiss being scarf, Krook was given scarf. While Cobalion was rockium z, which is a set that I am not a fan of, I'd rather have something to hit Hippo with harder aswell.



I love and hate the set, it can be used to bluff that it's scarf, and it packs more of a punch whenever you drop a draco. It gives you a chance to ohko Mega Aerodactyl with a draco meteor, which would always be a good thing to get rid of in a battle, knowing how good of a threat that pokemon is. Calc:

252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Aerodactyl-Mega: 294-346 (97.6 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO



I am not a fan of this pokemon, I'd rather use the Bulky nasty plot set or fightinium z set. Scarf could be good as like a late game cleaner but the mon itself suffers from 4mss, and that highkey makes it worse with it being choiced. Also, I don't really like scarf on it because it doesnt outspeed mega bee and mega aero. Which is also important because they both kill Togekiss. It also doesn't outspeed mega sceptile aswell, but that's irrelevant.


This mon is not really efficient at all. It is definitely outclassed by Cobalion. Cobalion having the better typing and stats. The best set you could possibly run is Grassium Z/Fightinium Z Virizion (Depending on the team). I do not recommend Rockium Z nothing that all the fire and flying types just die to stone edge itself, it's kind of a waste to put Rockium on it unless you are scared of your luck and hate stone edge misses.


Sorry I posted this so late, I had a party yesterday and I had to get stuff ready and go to the party after. Was out the whole day. Didn't get home till 1 AM
 

TONE

Get your bitch a cannon. Bitches love cannons.
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
#29
Sorry for being late, had other irl commitments to deal with. I was actually gonna live com this, but between final exams and Christmas preparations, I couldn't do that. Was able to play a few games when I got the chance to using Virizion and Latias so I give my own thoughts on both.

usmrw1.png



Virizion @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Latias @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Defog
- Healing Wish

Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm

Jellicent @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge


Virizion in some of the matches I played it looked either very promising or very bad matchup wise. SD was by far the most effective set to use with Virizion as other sets like CM didn't have the power that SD had. The niche of being a Fighting type that can handle Bulky-Water types and isn't weak to ground like its musketeer breatheren doesn't hold much especially considering that at times I wish it was a lot stronger. Nevertheless, when I did get the oppurtunity to setup to +2 with Virizion, most of the time, it didn't disappoint as all it need is some chip damage to do work and some annoying mons weakened or removed, Togekiss mainly as I hate trying to predict and Gengar too for that matter. Can it still work? With the right support, yes. Is it consistent compared to Cobalion, Terrakion, and Lucario? Probably not, but as I mentioned, if the matchup is right, Virizion can do a good amount of work. It just requires more team support than the prior mons mentioned.


This was also a hit or miss for me. Some games i see where my opponent has no Fairy types so Draco Meteor was very spammable. Other times, Latias wasn't able to do much of anything since Steel + Fairy + Dark type meant I had to choose what got a free turn and in most cases I would prefer the Dark type if only beacuse I used this in tandem with Virizion. The added power was nice at times, but it felt inferior to the Roost + 3 attacks LO set as you lose power but keep flexibility with not being locked into a move. Can it still work? Probably, but I feel that in this instance I'd prefer Specs Hydreigon over Specs Latias if only for the fact that you gain momentum in exchange for losing out on certain mons like Infernape.


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-837339344 Late game sweep with SD Virizion although I did get fortunate that Amoonguss was Sludge Bomb over Clear Smog

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-837347019 Virizion winning late game against team with 5 mons weak to Fighting and a Gligar which let me play aggresive with Virizion early game so HW Latias can help it late game
 
#30
Screenshot 2018-12-21 at 10.32.31 PM.png

I think I laddered the highest for this week. Anyway I tried virizion and choice specs latias. Didn't use togekiss because I felt choice scarf already had a decent amount of usage as a set (although personally I'm not too fond of it).

I used the swords dance + continental crush set. I was kind of underwhelmed by it for the most part. It was able to put in some work mostly because I put it on a sticky webs team and I was facing mainly low ladder. But otherwise, I feel like its too weak and slow to sweep without webs, and latias can pretty much come in for free on it when its unboosted. The fact that +2 continental crush doesn't kill amoongus after rocks is also pretty disappointing. I found it decent against some bad stall teams lacking mega altaria/acrobatics gligar/crobat. But in those instances, pretty sure heracross or even decidueye would have done the same thing. Overall, not too fond of virizion, very matchup based in my opinion.

Here are some replays of virizion doing stuff I guess. I had more games where it swept but I forgot to upload them.

I really did not like this set. I preferred using virizion than this set to be honest. With most teams consisting of one or more steel, fairy, and/or dark types, Latias's stabs are just not good enough to be locked into or to be spammed like other specs users such as hydreigon or primarina. This is especially so because it makes it even easier to pursuit trap, a problem that regular latias sets already have to deal with. The main advantage to this set is that you can maybe get a surprise kill on something that wasnt expecting the extra power with specs. But in this regards, I think 3 attacks + roost latias with lifeorb or soul dew is much better due to its longevity and not being locked in. For example, with specs latias if you go for psychic as your opponent goes into krookodile, then easy pursuit. With orb/soul dew lati, it would at least be a 50/50 because you can live pursuit if you stay in and knock them out with a draco. Another example is that you might go for hp fire with specs lati predicting scizor, but if they dont make that switch now you're in a really bad position. With 3 attacks latias, you don't have to predict on the switch, you can just hp fire next turn if they switch scizor in.

Conclusions: I was not too impressed with virizion, but it should at least be on the Viability rankings. Probably C rank. As for specs latias, its easily its worst set and is mostly outclassed by 3 attacks roost.
 
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#31
I had a ton of exams this week and get busied this weekend with christmas preparations so i would like to ask apologize to Darksafadao and sei cause i couldn't send my post before the deadline. Even so, i'll let my thoughts on the poke i picked but please just don't count it.

Latias @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

I've picked Latias and Virizion but i ended up using only Latias cause i don't had time to build something with Virizion. Well, Specs Latias... at the first glance, is something heat, but well get into this. I'm a fan of BoltBeam Lati cause it helps a lot against balanced with a near-perfect coverage so i decided to use boltbeam with the stabs. I thought that Specs Latias would fit better on offensive, so i decided to build one with Spikes to support Latias better since steel-types can switch into your STABs. Fine, what i discovered? Steelix-Mega dont care to my Latias, i mean, Steelix and Muk-Alola can still switch-in safely. At least you can put surf over Tbolt/Beam to get the first one but that's kinda bad because it is very niche. Now, let's go to the good sides, this sett does something like 44-52 on Blissey, what is very cool, i could kill a Blissey with that, and most of the steel and fairy-types are going to take a 2HKO with Thunderbolt such as Empoleon, Scizor, Togekiss and Primarina. Summing up: Specs Latias is not so good, it has a lot of trouble to kill more than one mon or even one, i'll explain better, let's suppose you predict a Togekiss or Empoleon incoming and click Thunderbolt, both are going to survive at full health and will figure out instantly you're specs for the damage taken, your opp can let u kill them or do a safe switch to a dragon type for example. But i'll go for the worst and the real scenario, Latias can kill something but after that is going to be take down, nowadays we have a well known revenge killer/scarfer/splashable mon in the UU tier, your name is: Krookodile. If with the standard Z-Move set with Dragonium-Z/Electrium-Z our dragon is scared for the most presential pursuit trapper, imagine with a Specs set where Krookodile has 2 opportunities to come in for free with Psyshock and Thunderbolt and can literally always revenge kill Latias because now the knock off damage is increased with the lack of a Z-item. If you need a specs, go to Primarina, has better sheer power and can't be revenge killed so easily, if you need a dragon with specs, go to Hydreigon, slower than Latias, but Hydra has more power, better STABs and can get away of the fairies with U-turn whilst getting momentum for the team. Sorry but my time just allowed me to play 11 games lol.

Latias @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Icy Wind
- Will-O-Wisp
- Spikes

Kommo-o @ Life Orb
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Close Combat
- Clanging Scales

Comfey @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Taunt
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Ice Fang

Lucario @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Dark Pulse

 
#32
Ladder.png

Sorry for the late post!
I have been using Modest Specs Lati for the last 2 days. While I think it's not a viable set for higher ladders, it's pretty fun to use when people decide to stay in with their Rotom-H.
Shout out to Pokemonisfun with a really fun team!
The Squad.png

After 1350, I was sure that my team had many flaws so I was looking for a new team to ladder.
I created a new acc [LowEloTears] to practice with pif's team and when the alt acc hit 1390, I laddered from 1350 on usmrw1 buke.
Other users has said enough flaws about Timid Lati so I'm sharing my experience with Modest Lati.
1. Any combination of Dark, Steel and Fairy types creates a tough matchup for Latias
2. All the pursuit trappers in the meta
3. Setup fodder
4. Not killing bulky mons and let them recover such as Rotom-heat( triggering its Berry) or Togekiss
5. Pressure stalling by Suicune or Raikou
* Thunderbolt/Surf coverage is used on Lati to hit bulky pokemons such as rotom-h, steelix and empoleon.
Modest Specs Lati
Bianca (Latias) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Trick
- Healing Wish

With this Latias, my strategy is wall-breaking and run, which opens the doors for Metronome Primarina and Z-Conversion Porygon to clean up.
  • Excluding Mega-Steelix, Mega-Aggron and Empoleon, Draco usually cuts the opposing Steel-type pokemon's HP to half.
dh wuhoo- Vs Doublade- Turn 1
  • Psyshocking Fairies
Vs bulky Primarina- Turn 3
252+ SpA Choice Specs Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 201-237 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 180-213 (45.6 - 54%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 175-207 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I know, who the hell sends Crawdaunt and Haxorus against a Latias. But maybe it can be useful in tight situations
Choice Scarf vs Choice Specs
-2 252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 153-180 (57 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

-2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 250-295 (93.2 - 110%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Choice Scarf vs Choice Specs
-2 252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haxorus: 254-300 (86.6 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

-2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haxorus: 414-488 (141.2 - 166.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 294-346 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO ( not guaranteed but high chance)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 357-420 (110.1 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Timid also kills)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 339-399 (129.8 - 152.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
From my experience, when pivoting into Latias, the hierarchy of choice:

A-Muk, Umbreon > Empoleon or Amoongus (when there’s a Dark-type mon)> Fairy> Bulky steel mons> Bisharp > Offensive Dark mons like Krook and Hydreigon

I think people would prioritise Fairy mons over Steel-type mon to deal with Lati because they can recover the damage done by Latias. However, people can totally send out pursuit trappers such Metagross or Bisharp instead to take down Lati.
 
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Darksafadao

best of the second options
is a Pre-Contributor
#33
And with this the first week is over. This is what we have on the topics:

Specs Latias: As pointed out by UnbecomingDuck, Randomnick, InvejaMata, A Cake Wearing A Hat, bukemon123 and Galactiknight, Specs Latias faces some problems breaking through teams as it can't really lock itself into spammable moves, and this only gets more transparent when it's compared to sets such as CM and 3 Attacks. The Pursuit spam also doesn't help it as locking yourself can mean being helpless versus Pursuit trappers. However, as Scizorphobic and DubFreaknakeeb pointed out, the added breaking power is nice and the surprise factor can win some games.

Virizion: Virizion was underwhelming to some people such as UnbecomingDuck, A Cake Wearing A Hat, Galactiknight, DubFreaknakeeb, and I'm actually Cash, as its coverage doesn't seem to make up for its weak Attack stat and its overall frailty on the Physical side never being appreciated in a Scizor tier. However, Scizorphobic and TONE, although having their problems with it, believe it can have good matchups and that it can do well versus certain balance and stall teams, with the latter believing it's still one step behind from other Fighting-types in the tier.

Scarf Togekiss: Scarf Togekiss turned out to be okay at best, due to its mediocre(ish) speed tier. As noted by Scizorphobic, I'm actually Cash, and A Cake Wearing A Hat, Trick turned out to be deadweight in a majority of matchups barring fatter builds. Rawbi pointed out that the surprise factor is the best thing it has and that he'd rather have the NP set or others most of the time.


With this being said, Galactiknight is this week's winner, congrats!

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For this week we've picked the following Pokemon:


Bisharp @ Filler Item
Ability: Defiant
EVs: Filler EVs
Filler Nature
- Stealth Rock
-
-
-


Shaymin @ Normalium Z
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA /4 Def/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Celebrate
- Seed Flare
-
-


Primarina @ Filler Item
Ability: Filler Nature
EVs: Filler EVs
Filler Nature
- Work Up
-
-
-


Bisharp has found itself a home in UU thanks to its breaking abilities paired with a devastating ability in Defiant. With access to SR, Bisharp could set itself up for its own niche while at the same time retaining its hard hitting capabilities.

Rated at A+ on the RU Viability Rankings, Shaymin is something of a staple in its home tier thanks to Z-Celebrate + a solid speed tier. In UU, an omniboosted Shaymin outspeeds two of the tiers most common scarfers and has the coverage to be an incredibly potent late game cleaner.

Primarina is great, and its [relatively] recent addition to the A+ ranking on our VR can more than attest to that. Thanks to the innovation that is the defensive set, Prim now has options --- both of which are undoubtedly solid. It's quite unfortunate that Primarina cannot learn Calm Mind, but Work Up can suffice as a substitute, albeit only in the Special Attack boosting regard.

Sign up with a fresh USMRW2 alt, and post your results, as well as your own thoughts on the Pokemon in question. You are free to edit your signup post if your post count is a concern. For this week, the deadline will be Sunday, Dec 30th, at 11:59 pm GMT-2. My co-host sei or I will check everyone's ladder scores then and decide the winner. Good luck everyone and happy researching!
 
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#44
Okay well I'm officially done with this week, I peaked 1400 and then tilted off the face of the earth lol. I have other stuff to do later this week so was hoping to get as high as possible within the first few days but oh well. So you can pretty much rule me out of winning this but I'll still share my thoughts on the Pokemon regardless and while I do have a few replays not many of them really show off what the sets can do to their fullest potential.

Peak.PNG

Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Work Up
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I'm not a huge fan of this set tbh, while Work Up does give it the oppurtunity to be less passive you are forced to only have Moonblast as your coverage. There were so many instances were I wished I had Scald to actually be able to punish defensive and offensive switch-ins such as Tentacruel, Empoleon, Scizor, Aggron etc. Due to this I had to make so much more offensive doubles, but not all of them worked in my favour and it just got chipped down pretty quickly. Being able to burn these types of Pokemon either makes them redundant or removes their lefties making it easier to break them or pull off a sweep with something. These are the main things I disliked about it but I'm not going to write it off as bad. I came across a lot of roar empoleon variants which blows and my god was the sleep talk RNG against me. From the bit of experience I had the actual set came in handy in about three games or so when it came to pressuring non roar Empoleon and some fatter squads otherwise it did what it normally does and eats hits from Pokemon like Hydra and Krook. I think it has potential but for me it doesn't outclass the standard bulky set.

Shaymin @ Normalium Z
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Seed Flare
- Dazzling Gleam
- Earth Power

So this is the set I used on Shaymin because my Squad did a good job handling the flying types in the tier and Scizor to an extent. I don't think Shaymin is all that bad right now especially with a good team to support it. I think I only had about one or two games where it actually pulled a sweep off but in almost every other game it was able to break through at least 2-3 Mons. So while I definitely enjoyed using this set more, it is still safe to say that it is fairly weak even after a +1 boost. However, Seed Flare and the 30% chance to get a drop helps mitigate this too an extent. If you get the SpD drop, which happens in quite a lot of cases, would be switch-ins are no longer checks to it. I was able to break through Blissey at one point even if it was due to the RNG. I think HP Fire has some merit on this set even if I didn't opt for it, as it helps dealing with Scizor much better while maintaning the ability to hit steel types. Overall I think Shaymin has a decent amount of potential to be really good in this meta and would probably use it again at some point. Nothing much else to say other than it is a fairly good sweeper and has the potential to break certain teams well.



This wasn't the best showcase of the Mons on my end, especially in Primarinas case but I had a lot of fun with it and with the next round I'll probs have more time to test sets out for longer ^_^
 

Moutemoute

Family Friendly Member
is a Tiering Contributor
#45
Alright folks, let's begin. I was able to test during this week all three Pokemon which were proposed. I've done 60 games overall ; about 10 with Stealth Rocks Bisharp and about 15 with Z-Celebrate Shaymin while the remaining games were with Work Up Primarina. It's was a fun week and I was able to reach a pretty cool Elo on the Ladder. I'll talk about my impressions about this 3 Pokemon, starting with the worst and ending with the best in my opinon.

USMRW2.png

USMRW2-2.png


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Stealth Rocks Bisharp :

Stealth Rocks Bisharp is without a doubt the worst thing we get this week. After testing it, I still don't see any legitimate reason to put Stealth Rocks on this Pokemon. In my opinion is a real waste and it's an even worst option than AoA Pursuit / Low Kick. I mean, if you want a Stealth Rock setter with Dark type, then pick Krookodile which is 100% better because it's faster than Bisharp but also have useful tools like Intimidate which is in my opinion better than Defiant to set Stealth Rocks. Indeed, Defiant is kinda usefull since almost every Defogger on the tier can bother Bisharp because of its mediocre Speed. In the other hand we have a plethora of better offensive Stealth Rock setter like Nidoking, Aerodactyl-Mega, Steelix-Mega, Metagross, Mamoswine, Cobalion, Terrakion, Kommo-o or Nihilego. I definitively don't see a niche for Stealth Rock Bisharp in UU and I disadvise anyone who would like to play it.


Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off / Sucker Punch
- Iron Head / Sucker Punch
- Low Kick / Sucker Punch

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Healing Wish
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Icy Wind

Scizor @ Iron Plate
Ability: Technician
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power

Salazzle @ Poisonium Z
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Protect
This is the team I've been using with Steath Rocks Bisharp. I opted for Focus Sash Bisharp because it's in my opinion the only item which can be valuable on this set. I also opt for Low Kick to Punish Cobalion and it guarantees the OHKO on it after it uses Close Combat which activates Bisharp's Focus Sash. Then we have Froslass which is our Spikes setter and prevent the opponent to use Defog or to set its own Entry Hazards. Choice Specs Hydreigon with Earth Power can catch on the Switch-in Empoleon and Tentacruel which is great to keep your Entry Hazards on the opponent's field. Hydreigon can also bring on the field Scizor or Salazzle which can threaten Fairy types for their teammate. Finally, we have Choice Scarf Latias which brings some Speed and Support to the team thanks to trick and Healing Wish.
252+ Atk Bisharp Low Kick (120 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 336-396 (104 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Unfortunately, I don't have replays which shows the team in action but Bisharp never shine during my matchs.

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Z-Celebrate Shaymin :

After Stealth Rock Bisharp, I'm gonna talk about Z-Celebrate Shaymin. This Pokemon is cool to use and it's a pretty clean Late Game Sweeper. However, it has a terrible 4 MSS. Indeed without Hidden Power [Fire] you can't really deal with Scizor while without Dazzling Gleam you can bother Latias, Hydreigon, Kommo-o and Kyurem. Unfortunately with Seed Flare + Hidden Power [Fire] + Dazzling Gleam you're not able to deal with Gengar, Moltres, the few Crobat but also Aggron-Mega which only takes ~30% on Hidden Power [Fire], Rotom-Heat, Amoonguss which takes less than 50% and can threaten Shaymin with Sludge Bomb or Clear Smog. So Shaymin needs a lot of support to be effective in the endgame and that kinda sucks tbh. It's 4 MSS is the pain in the ass and based on its two filler, it will need some support to beat or weaken X or Y Pokemon.


Electrode @ Light Clay
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Volt Switch

Scizor @ Iron Plate
Ability: Technician
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch

Kommo-o @ Haban Berry
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat

Shaymin @ Normalium Z
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Seed Flare
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Water Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 36 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Healing Wish
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
This is a fun team I've been using during about 5-6 matchs. It's definitively not the best team I made but it's a fun one for sure. The aim is to setup Screens with Electrode thanks to its insanely high Speed. Then you try to prevent Defog with Kommo-o and try to weaken the opponent's team with Kommo-o, Scizor, Blastoise-Mega which open doors for Shaymin Z-Celebrate in the endgame. You can also use Shaymin right off the bat without its Z-Move to weaken the opponent's team and then proceed to use Healing Wish on Latias to give a second wind to Shaymin which allows it to use its Z-Move in the endgame.

Replay : Shaymin cleans a game


Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Ice Fang

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave
- Dazzling Gleam

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze
- Scald

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 36 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Healing Wish
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic

Cobalion @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Shaymin @ Normalium Z
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Seed Flare
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
This is the other team I've been using with Z-Celebrate Shaymin. It's a Hazard Stacking offense with Sharpedo-Mega. The main objective of the team is to weaken Pokemon like Amoonguss, Empoleon, Blissey, Moltres etc.. which allows Shaymin to be as deadly as possible in the Late Game. Stone Edge Cobalion is a nice lure to Moltres and Rotom-Heat and it can also pressure Blissey and Aggron-Mega to a lesser extent. On the other hand, Latias and Sharpedo-Mega's Psychic Fangs can pressure Amoonguss. Unfortunately, I don't have any good replay which shows Z-Celebrate Shaymin shining.

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Work Up Primarina :

Finally, let's talk about the best Pokemon of this week in my opinion : Work Up Primarina ! I already talk about Defensive Work Up Primarina and I still think this set of Primarina is better than Rest-Talk + 2 STABs. Even if it struggles vs some Pokemon depending if it runs Moonblast or Scald, I still think it's a more interesting way to play Primarina. But I'm not here to talk about Defensive Work Up variants of Primarina because I only use this set during my first 10 matchs. Indeed, I tried something more exotic which is Work Up Primarium Z Primarina ! I fell in love with this set of Primarina and I love how this set allows Primarina to shine vs Bulky Team / Stalls Team. After 1-2 Work Up, Primarina is able to break neraly the entire tier thanks to its Z-Move Oceanic Operetta. Even if Primarina doesn't have the best MU vs Offense with this set, it can almost guarantee a K.O. per match vs Offense and multiple K.O. vs Bulkier teams.


Primarina @ Primarium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Work Up
- Sparkling Aria
- Moonblast
- Psychic

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Healing Wish
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic

Scizor @ Iron Plate
Ability: Technician
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch

Rotom-Heat @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 236 HP / 20 SpA / 4 SpD / 248 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Toxic
- Volt Switch
- Overheat

Cobalion @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Bisharp @ Dread Plate
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
Primarina is the ream MVP on this squad and can break through Bulky teams with ease thanks to Work Up and Oceanic Operetta which open doors for Scizor and Bisharp in the endgame. Cobalion is our Stealth Rock setter while Rotom-Heat acts as our Defogger. Thanks to Stealth Rock + VoltTurn, it's pretty easy to chip Pokemon like Blissey which means they can be quickly enough in range of Work Up Primarina. Finally, Choice Scarf Latias brings some Speed to the team and can support its teammates by giving a second wind to either Primarina, Scizor or Bisharp.

Replays : Primarina almost deals with the entire opponent's squad & Primarina vs Stall Team

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tl;dr :

• Stealth Rock Bisharp is the worst Pokemon of this week and shouldn't be used.
• Z-Celebrate Shaymin is a fun toy but has an annoying 4 MSS which means it needs some real support to be as good as possible.
• Work Up Primarina is a really nice set of Primarina which can be either offensive or defensive. Both of them have pros and cons but overall Work Up Primarina is the best thing we got this week.

Thanks for your time, I hope my post was helpful
Psyglad-Noel.png
 
#47
YO

IM HERE

Okay I couldn't be bothered to try to climb this week because the mons this week didn't interest me the same way virizion did ♥3♥

Not to mention that the strength of my team building is equivalent to wet single-ply toilet paper.

So short write up, not to mention early, but here's my 2 cents:

I barely made it to 1300's and then realized I was having no fun so that's when I stopped.

If you really want some low ladder replays I can toss some in here but they're real low quality and I can't be ducked to dig for them atm.

SR BISHARP:

This is an unset - Almost every time it was in I just wanted to do Bisharp things with it instead of trying to set up rocks (which is a decidedly UN-Bisharp thing to do). Whenever you do get a chance you're basically choosing to forfeit a KO in order to get some pointy garbage on the field. 6 times out of 10 I'd rather click SD and then sweep from there or at least claim something.

Here's a breakdown of what you should do if you're forcing a switch with Bisharp:
1.7/10: Iron Head
6/10: Swords Dance
2/10: Knock off
0/10: Sucker Punch
0.3/10: Literally anything else

Bisharp needs its 4 moves (Rock Polish Knock Off Low Kick Iron Head) (SD Knock Succ IronDome) in order to do its job, which is tear fresh holes in your enemy's frail anal cavity. No printers, just fax. Rocks just aren't for this mon.

Z-CELEBRATE SHAYMIN:

Spoiler title reference

Like Moute said, the 4MSS gives this mon the big gay. I'll refer you to his post above for a concise explanation.

I think the biggest issue aside from it's 4MSS is that it's a 1 time omnibooster. I really don't like using that style of mon because it effectively removes one of your mon's from the game after you have used it, and shaymin is not good enough on it's own in order to be worth using without boosts. AND it takes a turn to set up to boot. AND it only has 1 STAB. AND it's main attacking move only has 85% accuracy.

WORK UP PRIM:

Ok. So. I'm going to make a confession.

I have never successfully used primarina on a team.

I DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHY

I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING WRONG AND AT THIS POINT I'M TOO AFRAID TO ASK

That being said, I have been absolutely toasted by this mon more times than I can count. So.... take that for what you will. Moot2 has a better talk about this mon than me so read that instead.

tl;dr:

SR BISH = ew
ZC SHAYMIN = ew
WU Prim = Toasty
 
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#48
cutting the week off short since i havent had the drive to ladder w these mons :psygrump:

SR Bish - honestly better off remodeling a team rather than putting rocks on bisharp. like yeah it threatens ppl trying to defog the hazards but then you have tsareena and to a lesser extent blastoise to deal with

Celebrate Shaymin - easily my favorite mon. the bulk with a boost is rather nice and it doesnt struggle finding opportunities to celebrate up. has a nice niche of replacing celebi on builds weaker to hydreigon. the 4MSS does suck though. imo the best coverage moves are dazzle and hp fire. i prolly would've laddered more w it if i hadnt used it sm before lol

WorkUp Prim - I had high hopes for the mon but it just disappointed me tbh. I used Work Up over Scald on the rest talk set and it was super frustrating. not pressuring stuff like sciz is hella annoying and as a win con it worked literally once. losing to diancie as primarina is suuuper depressing man.
 
#49
Didn't get to ladder so much this week due to holidays and work, but I'll give my two cents about Shaymin. Something that works in favor of giving Shaymin a niche in UU is the boost to defenses as well as offenses, an aspect only shared by the almost nonexistent Z-Conversion Porygon2. This makes revenge killing it really darn hard. Common priority moves 3HKO at best, and 492 Speed is only beaten by the top speed tier, all of which require setup themselves.

Shaymin, of course, is not without its flaws. I'll reiterate the 4MSS problem. It really wants to run Celebrate / Seed Flare / Dazzling Gleam / Earth Power / HP Fire / even something like HP Rock or Air Slash. Since it can't, it needs support to shine. Another issue is Z-Celebrate being a one time only move, so saving it until checks and counters are gone is paramount.

Overall, I think Shaymin has its use in UU, as it's really the most viable omni-boosting mon available. Works well in tandem with Spikes!
 
#50
I only use WU Primarina for this week.
While writing this, I realized I accidentally used Adamant Primarina most of the time...
Rank.png


Before this week, there were three common sets of Primarina in my mind:
This week, Moutemoute did an awesome job covering Z Primarina. Tbh, I think this is the best version of Work-up Primarina. However, I want to try something different and Life Orb is a sane approach (I tried Work-up + Metronome+ Echoed Voice -Turn 1).
Carol (Primarina) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Adamant Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Work Up
- Moonblast
- Sparkling Aria
- Psychic
#Carol refers to Carol Gerber, a character in Hearts in Atlantis ( has nothing to do with Aquaman lol)
The idea behind the set is +1 LO Prim KO Amoongus after rocks. Furthermore, +1 LO Prim is threatening to most teams, without the Metronome boost and the restriction of choice specs. LO Primarina should only work up after Empoleon or Blissey is removed. Otherwise, it is just a wasted set up.
252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Psychic vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Amoonguss: 413-489 (95.6 - 113.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
  • Can not break through Empoleon and Blissey while the LO recoil is not recoverable.
  • Miss important KOs with consequences. For example, Muk with Gunk shot or Swampert (Turn 16)
  • Opponent exploiting LO recoil through Suicune or sacking mons.
  • Flinches from Togekiss or Thunder Wave from Klefki (Turn 2)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-842046446
Turn 6-
Cobalion nuked Muk which opened the door for Primarina.

Turn 24-
Bulky Starmie shut down all three physical attackers.
(Swampert can still Mirror Coat)
Primarina found an opportunity to get in and threatened all opposing mons, preventing Starmie to switch out.
Punishing U-turn (Turn 9)

tl;dr:

While WU Prim does not have the immediate pressure like Choice Specs version or the ability to break through Blissey like Metronome version, WU Prim is def a threat with correct predictions and Blissey/Empoleon removal.

Thank you for reading! I really enjoy this week!
 
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