UU Bold Suspect Nominations (Round 2)

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Alright! It's time for the Bold Vote for the BL suspects. Just a few rules for this thread, which will be open for 7 days.

  1. You can nominate as many suspects as possible, with good reasoning. Please Bold the Pokemon you nominate as suspects.
  2. While we will not be imposing a limitation on the number of suspects you choose to nominate, we ask you to keep it to a reasonable number of nominations to your post.
  3. Use your own reasoning and not something like "Crobat cause RB Golbat has good reasoning"
  4. You can't nominate against a Pokemon.
  5. Do not reply to other people's posts in this topic.
  6. Depending on the quality of your arguments, your vote might not be counted. To see past examples of what votes met criteria, please read posts 14, 17, and 25 of this topic.
  7. Only one post. Edit all your suspects into 1 post.
  8. Any posts that aren't nominating suspects will be deleted.
  9. If you have any questions, PM Caelum, Great Sage, or me.
  10. Votes will not be counted until after this thread is closed.
  11. While any and all users are open to nominations we ask for the sake of the integrity of the process that these votes be based on adequate experience and testing. We will not be investigating individual ratings, but we hope you will only submit a nomination if you have consistently played throughout the testing period.
  12. Don't be afraid to nominate Pokemon that have already been nominated.

Remember to use the following criteria when voting Pokemon as suspect/BL.

Offensive Characteristic

A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
This can also be a helpful reference when trying to use the "definitions" when creating your reasoning.

Example Nominations form last round that were acceptable:
Legacy Raider: Gallade, Staraptor, Froslass
Evil Hampster: Shaymin
Reachzero: Staraptor, Walrein
QibingZero: Staraptor, Gallade, Froslass, Abomasnow, Crobat, Raikou, Clefable
Phizzlax: Spirtomb
Lemmiwinks MkII: Abomasnow
 
Mismaguis
My reasoning is that it can constantly set up with it's standard set while being able to wall. An example is chansey switches in during a calm mind, Mismaguis subsitutes and chansey either fails to hit it with status or fails to break the sub with a special attack. and eventualy get nailed itself by HP fighting. Offencivly it breaks wallrein for much the same reasoning.
Being faster than a lot of its counters, the only thing i see stop its sweeps are tyranitar with its sanstorm, which does not exist in UU.
Ghost and fighting is not resistant by anything except spiritomb, which is switched into by something that can damage it and removed from the game. (Which is not an easy thing to do in itself)


Neblim: Rejected. You didn't even attempt to utilize the characteristics. You overspecialize your statements when talking about Chansey since Chansey is hardily the only thing that can wall Mismagius; and in fact Chansey doesn't beat CM / Substitute Mismagius anyway unless it's CM Chansey itself. That doesn't disqualify a vote, but you need to address other obvious checks like Special Defensive Umbreon, Drapion, Registeel, Spiritomb; not to mention the failure to discuss offensive checks. Walrein isn't really even comparable to Mismagius since Walrein's abilities aren't even in the offense department; but rather in the defensive department via abuse of Ice Body. Ghost and Fighting is actually unresisted by the way. Essentially, this was full of inaccuracies and didn't address the entire issues of why Mismagius was broken when it has a variety of checks which you failed to even recognize.
 
Mismagius
Mismagius presents a unique problem against anyone facing it. It makes great use of all the assets it has.

-Special Attack - This is obviously the most important part. Wtih 309 Special Attack with a neutral nature, it can reach 463 with one Calm Mind. Standard Mismagius runs 291 Special Attack. With a Calm mind, it still reaches a very scary 436.

-Type Coverage - With unresisted coverage, nothing can truly wall it, as most special walls and sponges are hit super effectively (Registeel, Regirock, Chansey). Also, the two types that hit Mismagius for SE damage, are hit hard by Mismagius itself with it's 2 attacks.

-Special Defense - The best part of Missy's Special Defense is that it boosts it while it boosts it's attack. After boosting it once, it will achieve a stat of 369, which is very respectable. After another Calm Mind, which it can use before many Special attacks on account of it's speed, Mismagius will have 492 Special Defense, which will make up for it's lackluster HP.

-Resistances - Like Gengar in OU, Mismagius is immune to Normal, and two very common types in Fighting and Ground. And if 3 immunities wasn't enough, Mismagius also resists Bug, which makes it a good counter to SpecsYanmega. And with Levitate making both spikes not a problem, Substitute will have a lot of health to work with, assuming Mismagius only switches into Stealth Rock.

-Speed - Speed is Mismagius's best aspect. Plenty of pokemon have great Attack and Defense, but speed is usually what lets them down. Speed lets Mismagius get up a Substitute or Calm Mind before it's counter does anything. Sub prevents status, and Calm Mind can make a hit much less damaging.

Xaqwais: Rejected. You basically listed a series of information I could find in a Pokedex. The only time you even discussed something of value was under the "type coverage" section and this was very minimal since you failed to recognize most Special Defensive Registeel will beat Mismagius one-on-one and you have other pure counters like Payback Umbreon, Sucker Punch / Shadow Sneak (heck even Shadow Ball if it pumps Special Defense) Spiritomb etc. Most importantly, you didn't even really attempt to utilize the characteristics in any way.
 
Crobat is my only Suspect nomination at this time.

Crobat is an odd one for a Suspect nomination, since I do not believe it fills any single category for BL. However, as HeYsUp and others have argued in the UU thread, as a whole all of its positive qualities may very well make it BL.

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Going just by its offensive traits, Crobat has a good start in that it has the second-highest base Speed in the tier (and one of the highest in the entire game). However, it doesn't have the greatest ATK stat and has no way of boosting it outside of its hold item. It does learn Nasty Plot, but its SATK stat is even worse. It is also plagued with a merely average offensive typing, as Poison is probably the worst attacking type in the game. It does have access to STAB Brave Bird as well as U-turn, however, so it makes a good hit-and-run Pokemon. It even has access to Roost so it can heal off Life Orb/Brave Bird recoil, SR damage, or non-fatal attacks if it gets a moment of respite. However, I wouldn't say it fulfills the Offensive Characteristic: physical sets are walled completely by pretty much every Rock, Steel, and (bulky) Electric types, while special sets suffer due to being based off of a lower base stat and suffers from 4-moveslot-syndrome as it cannot include Roost without giving up coverage it badly needs.

Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

Crobat's Flying/Poison typing gives it amazing resistances to work off of for this characteristic, having 4x resistances to Fighting, Bug, and Grass, as well as an immunity to Ground and Toxic. It also has few weaknesses in Rock, Ice, and Electric attacks - all of which are removed when it Roosts at the cost of swapping its Ground immunity for a weakness - as well as Psychic attacks. Substitute allows it to avoid getting crippled with status, Protect can waste an opponent's PP and give Leftovers recovery, and Roost allows it to recover off any damage it takes; unfortunately, all of these facts are hindered somewhat by Crobat's merely average 85/80/80 defenses. Its high Speed can occasionally be a problem as well if you're facing something that normally carries a Ground-type move as you won't be able to Roost safely. It also lacks any way to boost its defensive stats outside of Curse, which unfortunately lowers one of its greatest assests, Speed. This means that powerful STAB attacks (such as Azumarill's Waterfall, Arcanine's Flare Blitz, Espeon's Psychic, etc.) can take down even the most defensive EV spread faster than Crobat can recover off the damage. It is clearly not a candidate for BL under this characteristic.

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.

This is where Crobat comes closest to fulfilling the BL characteristic. With access to Taunt, Toxic, Confuse Ray, and U-Turn, Crobat has plenty of tools at its disposal to make its teammates' sweeping easier. Taunt and U-Turn are arguably its most useful supporting tools, preventing your opponent from setting up their own sweepers or harmful effects such as Stealth Rocks, then switching to an appropriate counter who can then set up themselves or proceed to help yet another teammate set up. Toxic can wear down walls that switch in to force Crobat out (although Steel-types are immune) and possibly eliminate a threat to your team, while Confuse Ray can give you a free switch-in or setup and even free damage. Hypnosis isn't reliable at all, but a successful hit can similarly take out a potential threat. However, Crobat's Speed is again a double-edged sword here. Since Crobat is so fast, the Pokemon you switch in is going to take the full force of whatever attack was aimed at Crobat, which could bring your sweeper dangerously low on health. This alone prevents Crobat from being BL under this characteristic in my opinion.

---

So, individually, Crobat doesn't seem to fulfill any of the characteristics. However, Crobat can run a single set that allows it to take advantage of all three categories: Brave Bird/U-Turn/Taunt/Roost. With this set, it can support your teammates with Taunt and U-turn, it can still deal large amounts of damage with Brave Bird, and with Taunt and Roost, it can at least last a very long time before being taken down or forced out, if it is at all. It can check both offensive Pokemon and defensive ones easily with its numerous resistances and Taunt, preventing both from setting up, and it has just enough defenses to take a single attack or two from many non-SE hits and live to Roost it off later. If I had to choose a single category for it to be nominated in, I would choose the Support characteristic, but Crobat is really more of a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none type of Pokemon.

MagicMaster87: Borderline Reject. Your write up wasn't bad, but you hurt your own case more than anything. You repeated said that Crobat doesn't satisfy any of the characteristics in your explanation. I was open minded to the fact that possibly a blending of all of them together would somehow warrant Crobat worthy of BL status, but you ultimately failed to effectively explain how each piece of the puzzle fit together to make Crobat worthy of testing again.
 

jrrrrrrr

wubwubwub
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It's a good thing you made the rule that we can't reply to other people because...lol never mind.

Crobat- Offensively, the thing is a beast. It can come in on a ton of the metagame and immediately threaten things with its 120 Base Power STAB Physical Flying move. Physical Flying is one of the best attacking types in UU, and Crobat is the best user of it. Its offensive impact is immediately noticeable when you look at the fact that it outspeeds and OHKOs the standard sets of each of the top 4 most used pokemon in the tier. Crobat's amazing Speed and high base power STAB move makes it the most dangerous revenge killer in the game, without having to resort to a Choice Item.

When I used Crobat, I averaged around 2 KOs in every match. This, to me, indicates that Crobat is capable of "sweeping a large portion of the metagame with little effort"

Defensively, it provides amazing checks to an overwhelming portion of the metagame. Its defensive stats aren't the best, but that is more than made up for with its 4x resistances to Grass, Bug and Fighting and an immunity to Ground, 4 of the most common attack types in the tier. The thing is a pain in the ass to take down by brute force. Defensively, Crobat is capable of walling and stalling a huge portion of the metagame with its amazing typing and Roost.

A set that commonly gets ignored is the Shufflebat (SubRoost Whirlwind). With its insane Speed, Crobat pulls this set off to a degree that makes Zapdos wet its pants.

Supportively, Crobat's lightning fast Taunt might be its best asset. It prevents Crobat from being set up on, and it prevents entry hazards from being set up. Considering that Crobat checks a huge portion of the metagame, getting a Taunt in as they go to a counter is incredibly easy. With that Taunt, as well as its access to Sunny Day and Rain Dance, and U-turn to make the right prediction, every time, Crobat is very capable of helping other pokemon sweep with no effort.

With only one moveset (Brave Bird/Roost/Taunt/U-turn), Crobat is by far the best and most versatile pokemon in its tier. It's pretty impressive how Crobat can fulfill the requirements of every category, it is a huge threat offensively, defensively and from the support side.

Shaymin- Offensively, Shaymin is a BEAST, especially the Life Orb set. STAB Seed Flare is extremely difficult to switch into, even if you resist it, due to its high base power and chance to drop SpDef. Combined with Earth Power, Shaymin gets pretty amazing type coverage. Shaymin's Seed Flare makes a lot of other pokemon obsolete. After Roserade, who has Spikes and Sleep Powder to differentiate itself from Shaymin, the next post popular Grass-type is Ludicolo, down at #32. Without a doubt, Shaymin's offensive capabilities are capable of sweeping large portions of the metagame with little to no effort.

Defensively, Shaymins 100/100/100 base defenses combined with Synthesis and Leech Seed make Shaymin a pain to take down. Combined with Grass' great Water and Ground resistance, Shaymin has proven to be a true force in the metagame.

Natural Cure is probably the second best trait in UU (Super Luck is obviously the best). With it, Shaymin's defenses are dramatically improved, giving it a virtual immunity to status, as well as the ability to use Rest to restore all of its HP and come right back in to start whalloping your opponent's team. Defensively, its amazing stats and ability to recover from status and damage, it is certainly capable of walling most of the metagame.

Shaymin
's dominance for months now at the top of the tier should be evidence enough that it is a suspect for BL. It's great stats and movepool make it a real threat to pretty much every pokemon in the tier

Moltres-
People may 0_o at this one, but seriously, even if Stealth Rock is up, Moltres is a pain in the ass to take down.

Offensively, I don't feel like there is any argument against Moltres. 125 base Special Attack, a great 90 base Speed, and the two best STABs in UU combine to make Moltres exceedingly powerful in the tier. Moltres' Fire Blast can 3HKO Chansey, just as an illustration of its immense power.

Just look at the usage statistics for last month and you will see why I think Moltres should be a suspect. Shaymin, Roserade, Blaziken, Registeel, Steelix, Hitmontop, Crobat, etc etc...none of these pokemon can even threaten Moltres before they are OHKOd by its amazing Flying and Fire STAB. Moltres could only have two moveslots and it would be one of the most threatening offensive pokemon in the tier. When you add Roost and Hidden Power into the mix, it only becomes that much greater.

Defensively, it may have that Stealth Rock weakness, but it is still a bitch to do 50% to Moltres. With its amazing Speed and resistances, Roosting will not be a problem.

The SubRoost Moltres set is almost impossible to break by conventional methods once it gets going. The only pokemon that resist Toxic are destroyed by Moltres' STAB Fire Blast. The pokemon that can take a Fire Blast are worn out by Toxic. The only pokemon that commonly uses Roar is Steelix, who obviously loses that fight.

Because it possesses amazing SpAtk and Speed, combined with the two best STAB Attacking types in UU and the never-say-die SubRoost set, I am nominating Moltres. It's weakness to Stealth Rock is overshadowed by its incredible offensive potential.


Jrrrrrrr/ Gay Dolphin:
Crobat: Borderline Accept. You appealed to the similar reasoning of a mixing of characteristics to warrant it BL, which is OK; I didn't think you completely tied it together, but you did it well enough I got the gist of it. I'll accept it.

Shaymin: Borderline Reject. I was concerned about the repeated appeal to usage stastitics. In and of itself, this isn't a bad thing; but you didn't completely tie in how this fit in with the characteristics other than saying blanket things like "it sweeps large portions." I'll defer to RBG / GS on this matter since it's a borderline.

Moltres: Borderline Accept. I would have liked to see a tad bit of elaboration on your points, but I understood what you are getting at and the greater points you were trying to make. I wish you would've just spelled them out a bit better.
 
First on the list is Crobat.

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Crobat only slightly fulfills this category. It has a very powerful STAB attack in Brave Bird, and decent sweeping capabilities with NP, but it's true power lies elsewhere. It is worth it to mention, though, that Crobat has the survivability to make it to late game and is an excellent clean up sweeper.

Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

Crobat does not fulfill this characteristic wholely, but again, his defensive capabilities are worth mentioning. Poison/Flying gives it a 4x resist to fighting, the most common choiced pokemon in the UU metagame, and a 4x resist to grass, making it argubly the best counter to Shaymin, the largest offensive threat in the metagame. With Roost, Crobat can come in and take nearly any choiced attack, Roost off the damage on the switch and then (with it's nearly unparalleled speed, as it's only outsped by electrode) U-Turn to the appropriate counter. It's speed makes it able to check nearly the entire UU metagame and prevent sweeps from starting by forcing out rather than walling or stalling. Therefore it is not so much a Defensive pokemon per-say, but it's capabilities as a check (which is on the defensive side) are well worth mentioning.

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.

This is where Crobat truly shines. I would argue that in addition to making it easy for others to sweep, his largest contribution is making other sweeps impossible, thus fitting him in as a support to stall teams. Crobat can take resisted hits like nothing, and immediately threaten a large part of the tier with Brave Bird, forcing them to switch out. Taunt prevents setup sweepers from setting up, or walls from recovering, U-Turn allows Crobat to build up residual damage as well as preventing him from dying, and Roost allows him almost unparalleled survivability, allowing him to survive until late game when a sweep may be possible.

Thus, Crobat complements the rest of his team, rather than being an outstanding figure himself. Crobat synergizes extremely well with Shaymin, the largest offensive threat in the metagame, allowing them to easily form an unresisted defensive or offensive core to any team.

Conclusion: Crobat partially fulfills all 3 conditions, and is an unstoppable threat as a support pokemon on a stall team. As such, he should be BL.

Next is Shaymin.

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Shaymin@Life Orb
Natural Cure/Timid or Modest
252 SpA/252 Spe/6 HP
-Seed Flare
-Earth Power
-Air Slash/HP Rock
-Rest

This set can threaten near anything in the UU metagame. Shaymin has unparalleled stats in UU as he is a 100 base all Legendary eventmon. 100 Base Speed gives it the ability to outspeed most UUs, 100 base SpA combined with a 120 BP STAB that drops SpD 2 levels (thus not allowing special walls to wall it effectively). In addition, Earth Power hits Registeel, Drapion, and many other common threats that can attempt to wall or kill it. With Natural Cure it doesn't fear status and can rest off any damage then switch in good as new. Air Slash hits Roserade and Venusaur who could threaten it, while HP rock hits Altaria, Moltres, Articuno, and others who would attempt to stall it. Rest combined with aforementioned Natural Cure gives it extremely good survivability.

Thus, we have the most threatening Special Sweeper in the current UU metagame. In addition to being extremely threatening, it is also bulky. Rest combined with base 100 defenses allows it to survive a long time, and its synergy with Crobat means it is incredibly difficult to take down.

Conclusion: If Crobat goes, Shaymin goes too. Shaymin is a ridiculously powerful offensive threat, who is equally difficult to kill, especially with Crobat support. Add to that that Crobat is the only reliable counter against Shaymin, and you have a catch-22. With the removal of Staraptor, Shaymin lost a counter that could threaten a good part of the UU metagame, and with the removal of Abomasnow, Shaymin lost both a counter (and possible revenge killer with ice shard) and the constant threat of Hail stall teams. Without those suspects, Shaymin reigns supreme, as demonstrated by its constant #1 ranking as the most used UU pokemon, it deserves a nomination.



d2m:
Crobat: Accept. Seems to be popular to appeal to the idea of the mixing of characteristics to warrant BL status. I'm elaborating on this acceptance to explain why I accepted this Crobat nomination. Mostly because you managed to somewhat effectively tie together the characteristics in explaining how they work together to form a potential BL Pokemon. I would've, again, like to see some elaboration; but I get enough what you were going for.

Shaymin: Borderline Reject. Don't appeal to the idea that if "x" gets banned then "y" should be banned. Those aren't valid reasons for banning something. That is the main reason I am borderline rejecting because I am not clear how strongly you are weighing Crobat's potential BL status with your Shaymin nomination.
 
Boo!

Mismagius seems to fit the Offensive Characteristic.

Code:
|    2 | Mismagius  |  11534 |   19.21 |
While usage is not an indication of how strong something is, it does demonstrate that there is something about the Pokémon that produces that number. That's what this post is going to explore. For the purposes of this post, we'll assume standard Sub + CM. A total of six (6) Pokémon can outspeed Mismagius in UU: Espeon, Ambipom, Sceptile, Swellow, Crobat, Electrode. The scenario here is that Mismagius has subbed on the switch into one of these faster counters, so she'll be +0.

Because some people don't quite catch on, note that if a Pokémon cannot manage to whip up 75+%, they will only muster a 3HKO at best.

Code:
[B]Mismagius vs[/B]: 
180 Shadow Ball vs. 4/0 Espeon: 81.92% - 97.42%
180 HP Fighting vs. 4/0 Ambipom: 59.59% - 70.55%
180 Shadow Ball vs. 4/0 Sceptile: 43.06% - 51.25% (97.44% chance to 2HKO w/ SR, 53.98% with SR + Leftovers).
180 Shadow Ball vs. 4/0 Electrode: 48.66% - 57.85% (93.82% to 2HKO w/o external factors)
180 HP Fighting vs. 0/4 Swellow: 41.00% - 48.66%
180 Shadow Ball vs. 104/0 Crobat: 37.69% - 44.81% (2HKO w/ SR, 60.16% to 2HKO w/ SR + Leftovers)
 
[B]Vs Mismagius[/B]:
Espeon:   252 Psychic vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 49.31% - 58.33%
Ambipom:  252 Payback vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 47.92% - 56.94%
Sceptile: 252 HP Fire vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 21.88% - 26.04% (does not guarantee sub breaks)
......... 252 Leaf Storm vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 65.63% - 77.43%
..........-2 252 Leaf Storm vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 32.64% - 38.89%
..........252 Leaf Blade vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 58.33% - 68.75%
Swellow: 252 Brave Bird vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 77.08% - 90.97% (~30% recoil on average, ~9% recoil from sub)
.........252 Guts Brave Bird vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 115.63% - 136.46%
Electrode: 0 Thunderbolt vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 28.47% - 33.68%
...........28 Thunderbolt vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 29.17% - 34.72%
...........252 Thunderbolt vs. 108 Mismagius: 37.85% - 44.79%
Crobat: 152 Brave Bird vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 73.26% - 86.46% (~22% recoil on average, ~7% recoil attacking sub).
The only thing in this list that really beats Mismagius is Crobat. Even then 37+7+22+25-6-6-6=73% minimum is taken off of him. Sceptile can win if he gets lucky with HP Fire and breaks the sub, followed by a high damage roll on Leaf Storm (which is very unlikely). If Mismagius CM's as Espeon breaks the sub, not only does that confirm the KO (like ~50 to OHKO w/ SR), Mismagius also takes less damage from Psychic. Swellow is KO'd when everything adds up (Damage, Poison/burn, SR, Recoil).

Outside of those, the only 'real' answers are Honchkrow, Umbreon, Azumarill, and Registeel. Chansey does not usually carry the moves necessary to break the sub, and even then the damage output is not near enough to deal with Substitute (can take up to 3 hits to break one sub). More calcs:

Code:
[B]Mismagius vs[/B]:
HP Fighting vs. 252/0 Registeel: 24.18% - 28.57%
+1 HP Fighting vs. 252/0 Registeel: 36.26% - 42.86%
HP Fighting vs. 252/96+ Umbreon: 21.32% - 25.38%
+1 HP Fighting vs. 252/96+ Umbreon: 31.98% - 38.07%
HP Fighting vs. 4/0 Honchkrow: 35.67% - 42.11%
+1 HP Fighting vs. 4/0 Honchkrow: 53.22% - 62.87%
Shadow Ball vs. 212/0 Azumarill: 32.23% - 38.32%
 
[B]Vs. Mismagius[/B]:
Registeel: 0 Iron Head vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 35.76% - 42.71%
...........168 Iron Head vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 44.10% - 52.08%
Umbreon: 0 Payback vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 79.86% - 94.44%
Honchkrow: 252+ Sucker Punch vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 146.53% - 172.92%
Azumarill: 252+ Aqua Jet vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 41.67% - 49.31%
...........252+ Choice Band Aqua Jet vs. 108/0 Mismagius: 62.50% - 73.96%
Registeel: Sub on the switch, Calm Mind as sub is broken, guaranteed 2 hits, ~72% - 84%.

Umbreon: See Registeel, only slightly less damage.

Honchkrow: Guessing games with Sucker Punch after Sub is broken. SR + LO + HP Fighting = 70% minimum. Almost guaranteed to lose though (dependant on opponent action), but it's not like Honchkrow is standing strong.

Azumarill: With SR + Sub + Leftovers + Leftovers, even a Choice Band Aqua Jet will fail to 2HKO thanks to substitute, meaning Mismagius can hit Azumarill twice for ~64% - 76%.

Other options for Mismagius: It is worth nothing that 28.0 of Mismagius carry Thunderbolt, likely to counter Crobat, Honchkrow and Azumarill. Trick is available to really mess with most team's Mismagius counter. Wil-o-wisp can stop physical attackers.

Through a combination of typing (leaving Mismagius immune to most priority, among other things), Special Attack stat, and most importantly Speed, I find Mismagius to fall under the offensive characteristic; ~6 shaky counters is a very minute portion of the metagame, leaving Mismagius to sweep the rest. I'm aware that I may have missed some things, but this post should contain enough to warrant her potential suspect status.

I'll likely edit in another nomination later.


Veedrock: Mismagius, Borderline Accept. I didn't like that you didn't account for Choice Scarf threats to Mismagius. That's the primary reason for it being "borderline."
 

LonelyNess

Makin' PK Love
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Alright kiddoes, it's time for some nominating fun

Crobat

If you'll take a look at the top moves of Crobat, you'll find it very interesting to note that it's probably the most predictable Pokemon in the tier (with the amount of usage that it receives).

| Crobat | Move | Brave Bird | 82.6 |
| Crobat | Move | Roost | 81.8 |
| Crobat | Move | Taunt | 81.3 |
| Crobat | Move | U-turn | 67.3 |

There's a lot to be said about how a pokemon can have an entirely predictable moveset and its usage still continues to increase. If you'll notice, Crobat was the 8th used Pokemon in the tier last month... and it only had half of the month to accomplish that. If you assume that all usages are constant through the month, then you'll see that Crobat is not only the most used Pokemon in the tier, but by a large margin... all while being entirely predictable.

Crobat fits pretty much all three characteristics to a T. It's kind of funny that Crobat can do so well when the majority of its sets only include a single offensive sweeping move, but that's a testament to its sweeping capabilities. Physical flying is a fantastic attacking type in UU, with a large majority of the top sweepers being weak to it, not only that, but many of the top sweepers who -aren't- weak to it, might as well be due to their frailty. The problem however, is not with its outright ability to sweep you the moment that it hits the field, but that Crobat has the defensive capabilities to easily outlast the few pokemon in the tier that can take its attacks... generally though no help but its own beatings given through Brave Bird and U-turn. Furthermore, consider that Crobat's presence leaves Stealth Rock absent from the field many times considering the majority of Stealth Rock abusers have no solid switch-ins in the tier save for those that they get on Crobat... but when Crobat's bulk allows for safe Taunting, they rarely are allowed to do their primary job. And when Stealth Rock is delegated to another Pokemon on the team, you're left with a single pokemon... whose only job... is to sit there... and wait for Crobat's appearance. Excuse me if I'm the only one who thinks this, but when I'm driven to such extremes, I begin to wonder about a Pokemon's legitimacy in a tier.

And Crobat's abilities do not stop there. Its ability to keep Stealth Rock off the field is a great asset to the number of Stealth Rock weak Pokemon in the tier. Allowing any number of Pokemon who would otherwise be hampered by this to be aided in their sweep (including itself). Not only that, but it generally lures in the Pokemon that other members of your team -love- to see. That weak offensive Registeel will make a lovely bit of set-up bait for Blaziken, Arcanine, Typhlosion, and other Fire-types when it's Taunted and forced to use Iron Head. That Kabutops will just LOVE giving Fighting-types such as Hitmonlee, Hariyama, and Medicham a free switch on your Stone Edge. Crobat lures in easily exploitable Pokemon like cake lures a fat kid, and the Pokemon that exploit these Pokemon are some of the deadliest in the tier, and are magnified ten fold by the inclusion of Crobat.

Lastly, the difficulty to punish a user for using Crobat means that Crobat's usage has no where to go but up. When looking at any number of Pokemon, the question becomes not so much "why use Crobat" but "why NOT use Crobat." With a lack of easily exploitable weaknesses, ability to check a large portion of the tier with what could be the most predictable moveset in UU, and ease of which it supports itself and other Pokemon on the team, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Crobat fufills the necessary requirements to be nominated BL.

Shaymin

Shaymin is more than likely the single most threatening sweeper in the tier. With a frightening 120 base power STAB Move that has the ability to double its damage next turn, it is no suprise that it has been the number one used Pokemon for the last two months. Looking at a simple set of Seed Flare / Earth Power / Hidden Power [Rock] / Air Slash you will not that it hits nearly all Pokemon in the tier for Super Effective damage. Out of the top 30 used Pokemon, only 7 Pokemon avoid being hit for Super Effective damage... 7 Pokemon avoid being hit for SUPER EFFECTIVE DAMAGE. These aren't Pokemon that avoid being killed, or can even kill Shaymin, but these are the Pokemon that avoid being immediately destroyed by a Super Effective attack. Of these 7 Pokemon (Mismagius / Ambipom / Spiritomb / Clefable / Espeon / Uxie / Chansey), an astouding ONE of them can risk a switch in... that one being Chansey. The rest, barring Ambipom, can't even kill Shaymin before it kills them... let alone do anything productive. From the moment that you face a Shaymin, you are thrust in to an immediate guessing game with your opponent, and it's really not even that much of a guessing game considering that Shaymin can easily afford a misprediction... what with its 100 / 100 / 100 defenses.

Not to mention that Shaymin has any number of free switches in the tier... or at the very least if they're not 100% free, they are with little risk. Shaymin can come in on nearly any water-type in the tier and wreak havoc. It can also come in on the myriad of Pokemon that Crobat lures in... Shaymin can also eschew one of its coverage moves and use the slot for either Rest or Synthesis, while losing a slight bit of immediate threat, you are now pressed with something that can not only come in... threaten a large majority of the tier with a sweep... but one that is now no longer as easy to punish for "bad prediction" due to its ability to seemingly reverse time and regain its health back. When Chansey is the best, and sometimes only, answer to a Pokemon, it's seriously time to question the ability of that Pokemon to maintain balance in the tier.


Yanmega
Moltres
Ludicolo
Honchkrow

LonelyNess:
Crobat: Accepted.

Shaymin: Borderline Accept. I wasn't really a fan of discussing super-effective hits since the message is largely meaningless and I think you could have been a bit more elaborate on how it ties into the characteristics.

Your other nominations sucked LN, not even a single word. psh.
 

haunter

Banned deucer.
I'm only nominating Honchkrow:

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.
@life orb
nature: adamant
trait: insomnia\super luck
-drill peck
-night slash
-superpower
-sucker punch

This pokemon can easily sweep through a significant portion of the metagame with little effort. Its impressive 125 base Atk stat combined with the perfect coverage guaranteed by flying + fighting make it almost impossible to be countered. With an actual attack stat of 497 and stab drill peck\night slash, backed up by a 120 BP fighting move, none of the UU physical walls can risk to switch in considering that with little prediction they can be 2hko’d by Honchkrow.
Here are some damage calcs:


-life orb’d superpower on 252 Hp \ 0 Def neutral Registeel: 70.88% - 83.52%, a sure 2hko.
-life orb’d superpower on 252 Hp \ 0 Def neutral Regirock: 54.95% - 64.56% on the first hit and 37.09% - 43.68% after the attack drop, Regirock is probably going to survive with leftovers factored in (though with very little Hp) but this is assuming that it comes in at full health.
-life orb’d superpower on 252 Hp \ 0 Def neutral Steelix: 56.50% - 66.38% on the first hit and 38.14% - 44.92% after the attack drop, good chances of a 2hko (and this is again assuming that Steelix is at full health).
-life orb’d superpower against 252 Hp \ 0 Def positive Cloyster: 66.12% - 77.63%, a sure 2hko and a possible ohko with SR on the field.
-life orb’d drill peck against 252 Hp \ 144 Def positive Claydol: 43.52% - 51.23%, drill peck + night slash ensure a 2hko on Claydol without neither requiring prediction (Honchkrow is faster).
-life orb’d night slash against 252 Hp \ 252 Def positive Slowbro: 55.84% - 65.74%, a sure 2hko.
-life orb’d night slash against 252 Hp \ 252 Def positive Uxie: 55.37% - 65.25%, again a sure 2hko.
-life orb’s drill peck against 252 Hp \ 252 Def positive Spiritomb: 41.78% - 49.01%, a sure 3hko and Spiritomb can barely scratch Honchkrow (again, that’s the best scenario in which Spiritomb comes in at full health).
-life orb’d drill peck against 252 Hp \ 252 Def positive Milotic: 39.34% - 46.19%, seems that Milotic is the only “safe” switch into Honchkrow since it can outstall it with recover letting it die from life orb recoil (again this is the best scenario with Milotic at full health).

Numbers speak for themselves.

Every listed pokemon is slower than Honchkrow. Everything not listed is 1-2hko’d as well. And all the calculations don't take into account the high critical hit rate guaranteed by super luck and by super luck + night slash (when night slash is used as attacking move).

Speaking of its speed: Honchkrow may not be fast, but 71 base speed is enough to outspeed its common switch ins, and the few pokemons which may switch in on a resisted drill peck and are faster than Honchkrow, notably Rotom and Kabutops, are 2hko'd by drill peck + sucker punch.

Thanks to sucker punch Honchkrow is also hard to revenge kill because every faster pokemon loses a chunk of its hp before killing it (unless they have priority moves too).



Haunter: Honckrow, Accept. A bit of a tie in to the characteristic more would have been nice, but you got the job done.
 
Well obviously here is the one Ive been fighting for, for a while:

Crobat

Background:

The trouble, and reason Crobat wasnt voted BL is that in only very "slightly" reached any of the characteristics, and it was not evident that it was broken with Pokemon like Raikou around.

However, in this metagame it came VERY evident. Without offensive teams having the power to counter Crobat (via Raikou), its nearly impossible to run an effective team. There is basically two (yes, two) offensive Pokemon who can at least deal with Crobat. These Pokemon are NU, and named Relicanth and Rhydon. There are around 13 others (iirc) that can counter Crobat as well, although none of them are viable offensively. In any event, "lack of counters" isnt a reason to ban a Pokemon.

Characteristics: All of them. Primarily Support, however it also fills the Offensive and Defensive ones as well (though not to the same degree).

Note:Please take into acount all of the reasoning together, and don't over analyze each seperate characteristic, as you cannot fully understand Crobat's true potential if you limit yourself to looking at one "characterisitic" at a time, when it fulfills all of them.

Reasoning:

Support: Crobat is basically a full fledge stone cold stop to sweepers of every sort. With its Speed, only Electrode out speeds it (which is a lead), so its effectively the fastest Pokemon in the metagame.

The first thing its speed gives Crobat, is basically the "Fastest" Taunt in the metagame. Yes, Electrode is faster, but its far less durable. Basically, Crobat has an endless Taunt due to its survivability and its 130 Base Speed makes it the essentially fastest Pokemon in the game, making it stop every other Pokemon from setting up.

With a STAB 120 Base Power move, basically no offensively based (aka, not a wall) Pokemon can stand up to this. Here is a list of every Pokemon it checks*:

*Definition of "checks" as im using it: The ability to either Outspeed and OHKO, take a hit and OHKO or just beat 1v1. Basically, if it revenge kills in any way.


Absol
Ambipom
Blaziken
Charizard
Drapion
Espeon
Feraligatr
Gardevoir
Hariyama
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Honchkrow
Houndoom
Magmortar
Mismagius
Ninetales
Poliwrath
Primeape
Roserade
Sceptile
Scyther
Shaymin
Swellow
Torterra
Toxicroak
Typhlosion (specs)
Venusaur
Yanmega

Without 28 Sweepers in UU being able to sweep, what takes advantage of this? Stall.

Whats the only way to beat a stall? Sweep. With a team being unable to sweep, that gives stall a very big advantage. If completely eliminating stalls weakness to sweeping isnt the support characteristic, than what is?

The other half comes in now: What Pokemon counter Crobat?

Electrode
Kabutops
Omastar
Regirock
Registeel (Gimmick Zap Cannon variant only)
Rotom
Slowbro
Steelix

If you havent Noticed already, what do ALL of these counters have in Common? Firstly, they are basically ALL defensive oriented Pokemon, besides Kaubtops. Secondly, they are ALL weak to Shaymin,
ANY variant, ESPECIALLY when backed up by a Stall team (by Pokemon such as Drapion and Omastar, who are very common, and very useful on a Stall team).

Crobat, in common battle conditions (28 Sweepers is a ton) makes it so a STALL team (whether it be Shaymin, Drapion, Omastar, or Crobat itself) can sweep with little effort by stopping sweepers cold, stopping set up cold, and forcing the opponents to use Pokemon who stall sets up on and destroys.

Offensive: Crobat is often compared to Pokemon like Swellow, who are easily walled, and are thus not broken. However, Crobat ironically utiliizes its Defensive qualities to fulfill the offensive charactestic. Let me explain, Pokemon such as Swellow could sweep with ease if its Counters (basically the same as Crobats) are removed). Now, as I said before in the support "Reasoning", these counters are very easy to remove with Pokemon such as Shaymin, as it beats all of them with ease. Now, it sounds like are little bird friend Swellow here should also be broken, but this is where Crobats defensiveness comes in. Swellow can only switch in a maximum of 3 times in Stealth Rock, and it has basically 3 turns to attack assuming it OHKOes everything, due to poison. So basically, Swellow needs to only come out late game. This means, it:

a) Cannot do anything for the whole game.
b) Cannot lure out its counters

Now Crobat, who can sweep basically as effectively as Swellow, and in the same manner, can do this during the game:

a) Fulfil the support characteristic
b) lure out its counters

Basically due to its defenses, it can actually LAST untill the end of the game where it sweeps.

Therefore, Crobat in common battle conditions can live long enough untill its counters are removed, and sweep a significant amount of the metagame without set up and with Little effort.


Defensive: This one is much easier than the other characteristics to prove. Here are the Pokemon Crobat can stall out:

Altaria
Blastoise
Chansey
Milotic
Kabutops
Ludicolo
Omastar
Muk
Nidoqueen
Poliwrath
Regirock
Registeel
Roserade
Sceptile
Toxicroak
Venusaur
Weezing

That is, if not very close to a "signifant portion of the metagame".

Therefore, Crobat can outstall a significant portion of the metagame with little effort.
-----------------

Now the important thing here is to not go and say....hmmm...doesnt really fit Offensive....doesnt really fit support...doesnt really fit defensive if you aren't convinced that it fulfills any of them.

The issue with Crobat, is that it can come undeniably close to all of the Characteristics (even if you disagree with each one seperately, it does come close), and thats just too strong for this tier. The best example is how the Support Characteristic, Defensive Characteristic and Offensive Characteristic help fulfill each other in this case. What would you think of a Swellow that can prevent all set up, stall a good portion of the metagame , check 28 offensively viable Pokemon, and last til lthe end of the game to sweep? That, my friends, is Crobat.

This is all done with one Moveset: Roost / Taunt / U-turn / Brave Bird and while Crobat is a purple bat.

Shaymin

Background: Shaymin has always been one of the top contenders in UU because of its Celebi-like defenses. However, it was given even more time to shine in the Suspectless metagame, and it still even shines with its main check (Crobat) back in the metagame.

Now keeping in mind all of the stages Shaymin was tested in, I feel it fulfills two characteristics with two sets:

Offensive, by this set:

Shaymin @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Seed Flare
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power Ice / Psychic / Air Slash
-Synthesis / Rest

And Defensive, with this set:

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
-Leech Seed
-Substitute
-Air Slash / HP Ice
-Seed Flare / Earth Power
-------

Reasoning:

Offensive: Shaymin can not only beat a ridiculous amount of Pokemon 1v1, it also can outspeed most of the metagame, while sweeping with a STAB 120 base Power attack, with a 30% chance to give your opponent -2 SpD (with Choice Specs, it can even 2HKO chansey, which is a bit of a balancing issue).

Shaymin can hit basically every Pokemon with a neutral grass attack, or a super effective hit, usually OHKOing (there are 6 Pokemon it doesnt hit super effective IIRC, but it still hits them for neutral). With the ability to switch into many Pokemon and OHKOing Shaymin is basically a slower, bulkier, and more powerful variant of Crobat in terms of checking the tier. Here are the most common and safe switch-ins:

Milotic
Omastar (not in rain)
Kabutops (not in rain)
Cloyster
Regirock
Registeel
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Azumarill
Blastoise
Claydol
Electrode
Feraligatr
Lanturn
Ludicolo (not in rain)
Poliwrath
Rotom
Slowbro
Steelix
Torterra
(Relicanth)
(Rhydon)

Yea. So basically Shaymin gets a FREE turn to 2HKO basically anything that can come in, everyone one of these Pokemon comes in.

You'll also notice a similarity of this list to crobats counter list. A lot of people are probably saying stuff like "Well Crobat is back in the tier, so now Shaymin sux". That is simply not the case. In fact, Shaymin is now BETTER with Crobat in the metagame. If you would like to refer to my Crobat nomination, you will realize how broken Shaymin is when all of the Crobat counters

With hitting the entire tier for super effective damage or a STAB Seed Flare except for Weezing and Moltres (and Charizard), it is apparent that: In common battle conditions (from the common Crobat counters / metagame bulky waters and rocks in general) Shaymin can sweep a significant portion of the metagame (hitting every Pokemon supereffectively except for a very select few) with little (no set up required) effort.

EDIT: I Think im done.



HeYsUp:
Crobat: Accept. Try to be a bit more concise, it got long-winded and you started to repeat yourself.

Shaymin: Accept. A stronger connection to the characteristics would've been nice in this one, but it got the job done.
 
Moltres
Although mostly seen as a scarfed lead, Moltres also posesses amazing late-game sweeping capabilities. Combined with a spinner such ass (In UU) Hitmontop; or (In OU/BL) Starmie or Tentacruel, Moltres can get in safely. It provides immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and has 125 base special attack. With access to Agility, it can outspeed nearly the entire UU metagame after one agility. Once its counters are out of the way, and it has an agility up, it can sweep amazingly. Air Slash has a 30% chance of getting flinch, Fire Blast covers a wide amount of types, and (like Zapdos), it can carry Hidden Power Grass or Ice to get rid of either waters or dragons. As it is more commonly seen, in scarf-lead form, Moltres can be an amazing anti-lead in either UU or OU. It outspeeds most leads, and deal great damage to them. It reaches 349 SAtk with Timid, and 383 with Modest. The Scarf-lead hits 459 speed, which is enough to outspeed any lead in OU, as long as it isn't scarfed.


Slowbro
Getting Fire Blast, Grass Knot, Slack Off and Thunder wave makes Slowbro a great Bulky Water. As Elevator Music will point out to anybody who listens, the following set is an amazing wall in not only UU but OU as well:
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Ability: Own Tempo
212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpA
Slack Off
Surf
Thunder Wave
Hidden Power Electric/Ice Beam/Grass Knot/Fire Blast

All of the listed options get something in OU hard. Despite its poor typing, Slowbro is an excellent wall.


Ambipom
The #1 most-used lead in UU is excellent for more reasons than one. The Standard Technician/Fake Out set is excellent, and it can also run Double Hit for two technician-boosted 35 base power hits. It can break a sub and hit again, and will break any SubPuncher around. U-Turn and Brick Break make it awesome, and its Choice Band set, while basically the same, runs Payback and Return as well.


Registeel
Just an inferior Metagross, right?
WRONG!
With full HP investment, Registeel can excellently wall anything not Super Effective that's put in front of it. The Curse set is amazing, after only one Curse, its Gyro Ball hits for amazing damage. With access to Ice Punch and Explosion as well, Registeel is far from an inferior Metagross. While Metagross focuses on offense, and has an Agility sweeping set; Registeel focuses on defense and uses the 'wall' and 'curse' sets.



polelover44:
Moltres: Reject. Firstly, only 24% of Moltres use Choice Scarf in April so it was hardily "mostly seen as a scarfed lead." I also disliked how you didn't even attempt to reconcile the major issue of Moltres, Stealth Rock weakness, with its potential BL status. When something loses 50% of its health every time it switches in, you have to explain what makes it special enough to ignore that. You also just listed things I could look up in a Pokedex. Finally, you didn't even attempt to appeal to the uber characteristics.

Slowbro: Reject. Why are you talking about OU? You didn't even remotely explain why that satisfies any sort of characteristic or potentially broken status. You just listed a set and said "it's good."

Ampipom: Reject. See the above descriptions.

Registeel: Reject. I stopped reading after "Just an inferior Metagross, right? WRONG!", it should be obvious why.
 

reachzero

the pastor of disaster
is a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Shaymin
Shaymin's ability to outspeed most of the UU metagame and OHKO or 2HKO many of the major UU threats make it a major threat to the metagame, arguably the tier's best sweeper. Because of the threat of Seed Flare, very few Pokemon switch into Shaymin safely. More importantly, because Shaymin is naturally bulky, possesses reliable recovery in Rest and can switch safely into nearly all bulky water, rock and ground types (Regirock, Milotic, Slowbro, Steelix, Quagsire, etc.), the opponent is likely to need to switch against Shaymin several times over the course of a battle. Although there are several switch-ins that look good on paper against Shaymin, the majority of these are problematic in practice, and few of them work repeatedly. The most common and effective switch-ins to Shaymin are Registeel (specially defensive versions), Crobat, Moltres, Altaria, and Chansey. Of these, Registeel is the most reliable, yet the EV investment required to allow it to survive repeated Earth Powers keeps it from having enough attack power to threaten Shaymin much even with Ice Punch, and without reliable recovery Registeel is limited in how often it can switch in without Wish support or Rest. Moltres is the next best switch-in, yet its 4x Stealth Rock weakness makes it a bit risky for Moltres to be switching in repeatedly, as it will not always find time to Roost. Also, Shaymin has increasingly been carrying Hidden Power Rock, though Hidden Power Ice is overall the superior option. The threat of HP Ice keeps Altaria from being a solid answer to Shaymin; Shaymin outspeeds Altaria, so a Shaymin with HP Ice will beat Altaria even without prediction. HP Ice is also Shaymin's best defense against Crobat (barring Psychic, which has much worse type coverage), although it fails to OHKO Crobat, even with Stealth Rock damage. however, if Crobat has taken residual damage, it becomes dangerous to switch in predictably into Shaymin, as HP Ice does 59-70% to the standard Crobat. Chansey is a very situational check, since it is so weak offensively that it allows many sweepers to set up, and at any rate it can do very little to threaten Shaymin in return. So then, while Shaymin does have checks, they are not sufficient to keep Shaymin from sweeping a very high percentage of teams.
Ludicolo
Rain Dance teams are incredibly difficult to stop in UU, and the primary reason for this is Ludicolo. Ludicolo allows Rain Dance teams to beat bulky waters such as Milotic and Poliwrath that they otherwise would have a much more difficult time beating. Teams without Toxicroak (which is most teams) will have a terribly difficult time trying to keep Ludicolo from taking out several Pokemon on its own in the rain, particularly if it has has priority support to keep Honchkrow from Sucker Punching it. Admittedly, specially defensive Registeel does a decent job of walling Ludicolo, but it is usually then weakened sufficiently to allow other members of Ludicolo's team to sweep without too much trouble.



reachzero:
Shaymin: Accept.
Ludicolo: Borderline Accept, I would've liked to see a bit of an elaboration on the ideas you were touching on.
 
These are the 5 highest total base stat values in UU:

5. Crobat: 535 (take note of this guy, too)
4. Milotic/Magmortar: 540
3. Arcanine: 555
2. Mesprit/Uxie/Registeel/Regirock/Moltres: 580
1. Shaymin: 600

These are approximate average values for each individual base stat in UU:

Hit Points: 81
Attack: 85
Defense: 86
Special Attack: 83
Special Defense: 89
Speed: 80.5

These are Shaymin's base stats:

Everything: 100

Obviously, you will notice that Shaymin is well above average in not just one or two stats, but every single one of them. Now, I am not saying that base stats are everything, or else Slaking would be the #1 UU Pokemon, but I am saying that high base stats are important when there are no significant mitigating factors, as is the case with Shaymin. Registeel is offensively weak; Moltres has a double weakness to Stealth Rock; Arcanine has a poor movepool and Stealth Rock weakness; Shaymin has no such significant disadvantages, and higher base stats than any of those Pokemon.

Shaymin's primary abilities fall within the Offensive Characteristic, though with 100/100/100 defenses the Defensive Characteristic should not be overlooked, either. Let's start with Shaymin's greatest offensive asset, its signature move Seed Flare, which has 120 base power, 85 accuracy, and a 40% chance to lower the target's Special Defense two stages. Doesn't sound too bad, right? Then you compare it to other 120 base power moves. All other 120 BP moves with greater accuracy than Seed Flare have negative side effects (recoil, lowering stats, etc.) as opposed to Seed Flare's strongly beneficial side effect, and the other 120 BP move with the same accuracy (Fire Blast) has a side effect with only a 10% chance of occurring as opposed to Seed Flare's 40%. All other 120 BP moves have less accuracy than Seed Flare. Thus, Seed Flare is arguably the best move for sweeping in the game, and Shaymin gets STAB on it.

Combine this move with good base Special Attack and, more importantly, excellent Speed by UU standards; Shaymin cleanly outruns 45 Pokemon in UU, while only 8 Pokemon are able to cleanly outrun Shaymin. Consider the extent to which Seed Flare is an immediate threat to most UU Pokemon. All UU Pokemon which do not resist Grass (except Chansey) are killed in 1 or 2 hits by Seed Flare unless they have abnormal investment in their special defenses, without exception. Keep in mind that Seed Flare breaks the usual rules of countering with its side effect; a Pokemon which could normally switch in and avoid a 2HKO has a chance to either get hit by the SpD drop or a critical hit, meaning that it's screwed anyway, and this chance falls dangerously close to 50% (40% chance of SpD drop + 6.25% chance of critical hit). Again, combine this kind of power with the fact that Shaymin outruns over 75% of the tier. This should be enough to send up warning signals all by itself.

However, the fun doesn't stop there. You look at all this and notice that Seed Flare is a Grass attack. What the hell, Grass is a terrible attacking type! 7 other types resist it! No way that's BL. I would agree if Seed Flare were Shaymin's only move, but sadly, it is not. Observe: Seed Flare / Earth Power / Air Slash / Hidden Power Ice. These 4 moves achieve either a neutral hit from Seed Flare, or a super-effective hit from one of the other moves, on every single type. Every Grass resist is covered. Earth Power takes down Steel, Fire and Poison. Air Slash hits Grass and Bug. Hidden Power Ice knocks out Flying and Dragon. This means that, at the very worst, you are hitting an opposing Pokemon with super-effective damage from Hidden Power. That's the worst-case scenario.

This leaves just a couple very specific Pokemon with unique or nearly-unique type combinations as the only Pokemon which can actually wall Shaymin's set (and by "wall" I mean resist Seed Flare while not being destroyed by one of the other moves). Namely, Moltres, defensive Roserade/Venusaur (weak to HP Ice but sturdy enough to take it and hit back twice as hard with STAB Sludge Bomb) and Crobat (Crobat still takes super-effective damage from HP Ice, but it can atleast use Roost to fix that before Shaymin moves again, the only Flying-type besides Swellow able to do so). But it gets even better. Shaymin has more options to help it cover even these specific threats. Psychic deals the big numbers on Crobat and Roserade/Venusaur while HP Rock instantly destroys Moltres. Well, atleast we've still got Chansey, right? Wrong. Shaymin's Attack stat is just as high as its Special Attack, allowing it to run a Swords Dance set which walks all over Chansey. Not that you have to run Swords Dance to beat Chansey, though--if Seed Flare gets that Special Defense drop Chansey can still lose. Shaymin has the unique honor of being the only UU Pokemon able to beat Chansey with non-boosted special attacks, I believe (other than perhaps Specs Blaziken).

Shaymin outspeeds the majority of the tier and is able to hit the majority of the tier for severe damage with the reliable power of Seed Flare backed up by incredible supporting coverage. It is able to beat any of its counters, even Chansey. There is no guaranteed answer to Shaymin, only a better chance to beat it with certain Pokemon. You have to play a constant guessing game against it, unless you have Chansey, and even then you have to pray that Seed Flare doesn't get the SpD drop.

This sounds like enough to qualify under the Offensive Characteristic to me. However, Shaymin's still not done. Let's not forget that Shaymin is not Espeon or Swellow: It's not a "frail, fast" sweeper. It's a sweeper that isn't frail. With 100/100/100 defenses Shaymin has no problems taking a hit or two, and is actually more durable than the majority of the tier (remember how its stats are above average in every single category, not just the offensive ones?). On top of those solid defenses, it even has reliable recovery available to it, with the lack of perma-weather Pokemon in UU Synthesis is pretty much Recover with less PP. With Synthesis Shaymin is actually to "wall and out stall" some UU Pokemon, especially more defensive ones such as Slowbro, Claydol, Registeel, etc., which means that, by the standards of powerful sweepers, its durability is nothing short of top-tier. No other offensive threat in UU can match Shaymin's durability (Moltres would come close, except that it has a double SR weakness), except arguably Crobat, who is also arguably the only Pokemon in UU which deserves Supect status moreso than Shaymin itself. As if that weren't enough, Shaymin even has Natural Cure, which means that you can't even slow it down with status, and that it can utilize Rest for recovery aswell should you wish to do so.

The combination of high Speed, excellent type coverage and Seed Flare's sheer power makes Shaymin a frightening sweeper. When you combine this with the fact that Shaymin is actually more durable than the majority of the tier and even has reliable recovery to take advantage of that durability, aswell as an ability that allows it to shrug off status, it becomes clear that Shaymin deserves to be a Suspect.

---

These are UU's top 5 speed tiers:

5. Ambipom: 115
4. Sceptile: 120
3. Swellow: 125
2. Crobat: 130
1. Electrode: 140

Despite that blitzing speed Electrode's base stats total to a mere 480, unimpressive even by UU standards, and its movepool is a barren wasteland decorated only by the very occasional diamond in the rough (STAB T-bolt, Explosion), meaning that it is not fit for use outside of a few specific purposes (mostly leading on rain teams, which Crobat even gives it a run for its money at, since people will see Electrode and immediately think "Rain" whereas Crobat will never be initially suspected as a Rain lead). With Electrode almost entirely absent from general use in UU, Crobat is left as effectively the fastest Pokemon in the tier. You will notice from my above nomination of Shaymin that Crobat also sports a high base stat total by UU standards, its total base stat tier comes in at #5 in fact, out of a tier of 58. Sounding like a good Pokemon to you yet? Cause this sounds too good to me.

Once again I'm not arguing that base stats are everything, but once again, their significance cannot be denied in the absence of significant mitigating factors. In this case, Crobat has one notable disadvantage and one notable disadvantage only: he is weak to Stealth Rock. There is no other reason to not use him. He doesn't make you weak to any sort of set-up sweepers, unless your team can be torn apart by something like Swords Dance Armaldo I suppose. He is not frail or easily revenge killed, indeed he destroys the concept of a revenge kill entirely by outspeeding the whole tier. He is not offensively incapable. He is not slow. If you look at UU Pokemon, almost every one of them has one of these weaknesses. Blaziken has incredible power, but is fragile and only has average Speed. Chansey walls the entire special spectrum, but provides a set-up opportunity for SubCM Mismagius, is somewhat weak when it comes to physical defenses, is slow, and is reduced to Seismic Toss for dealing direct damage. Azumarill is powerful without being fragile, but is very slow.

I repeat, Crobat has none of these weaknesses. Some might argue that Crobat is easy to wall, oh it's no problem, any Rock or Steel type will do. But you have to keep in mind that the worth of all traits is relative to the metagame which surrounds them. Crobat has to be compared against all the other UU Pokemon, and when you do that it's obvious that Crobat is not offensively weak. Yes, he can be walled, but the majority of UU Pokemon can be walled by something, meanwhile there are also Pokemon which Crobat deals significant damage to and Pokemon which Crobat can OHKO, meaning that he clearly has offensive power to some degree. Meanwhile he has no disadvantages at all. He is only weak to Stealth Rock, which, while unfortunate, is not enough to hold him back.

To anyone who says SR weakness should prevent Crobat from going up, I have only thing to say: This same person should be lobbying for Ho-oh to be OU even as I type this. If he's not, he's a hypocrite. And even if he actually does lobby for Ho-oh to move down to OU, I'd say that he must then go and lobby for Lugia to move down, too. After all, Crobat has only a single SR weakness, not a double weakness. If SR weakness is enough, all on its own, to prevent Crobat from being a UU Uber, then why doesn't it stop Lugia from being an OU Uber? I'm not saying that SR weakness doesn't affect Crobat, but I am saying that clearly SR weakness on its own is not significant enough to hold back an otherwise superior Pokemon.

Keeping in mind the fact that Crobat, along with Shaymin, is quite possibly the most flawless Pokemon in the tier, let's examine the positive aspects which it is blessed with. As already stated Crobat has 130 base Speed, meaning that in 95% of the situations it encounters it will be moving first. To compliment that Speed it has Brave Bird and STAB on it. Physical Flying is a great attacking type in UU; there are only 8 Flying resists in UU (one of which is Electrode) but 15 Flying weaks, including prominent threats such as Roserade, Shaymin, Yanmega, etc., and nothing is immune or double-resistant to Flying, meaning that overall the type gets very strong coverage. Comparing it to some other attack types:

12 Pokemon in UU resist Rock, and 12 also resist Ghost and Electric
14 Pokemon in UU resist Water, Psychic and Dark
16 Pokemon resist Poison
18 Pokemon resist Ice and Ground
No fewer than 20 resist Fire in some way
Steel is also resisted by 20 Pokemon
A whopping 23 resist Fighting
A staggering 24 Pokemon resist Grass
27 Pokemon resist Bug--nearly half the tier

Keep in mind that Flying has a mere 8 resists by comparison. The only type which finds fewer resists than Flying here is Dragon, which also only hits 1 Pokemon in UU for super-effective damage as opposed to Flying's 15. Clearly Flying is a superior attacking type in this environment, and Crobat gets a 120 base power 100 accuracy STAB attack of this type combined with 130 base speed and decent, if not powerful, base attack (90 base). Nothing more needs to be said about Crobat's offensive capabilities. They are not overwhelming, but they are certainly significant.

Crobat is blessed not only with a superior offensive typing, but also a superior defensive typing. Poison/Flying is quite possibly the best defensive typing in all of UU. It is weak to Electric, Ice, Rock and Psychic. Here are the number of UU Pokemon who get STAB on these types:

Psychic: 6
Electric: 3 (remember one of these guys is Electrode)
Rock: 3 (Omastar's best Rock STAB however is Hidden Power)
Ice: 0

A total of 12 Pokemon and one typing is left out completely. The lack of weaknesses to common attacking types such as Fire (9 UU Pokemon get Fire STAB), Water (10 UU Pokemon get Water STAB), Fighting (7 Pokemon get Fighting STAB) and Grass (6 Pokemon get Grass STAB but the typing is overrepresented in general because of Shaymin) means that Pokemon who can seriously hurt Crobat are difficult to come by and sometimes must go out of their way to use moves that can dent him (Uxie and Mesprit don't want to waste a slot on Psychic but because of Crobat they generally have to).

Now compare this to Crobat's resistances. He has three double resistances and an immunity, compared to 4 single weaknesses, three of which are painfully underrepresented (the number of Fighting and Grass STABs in UU alone outnumber the total number of Electric, Ice, Rock and Psychic STABs combined). As if this weren't enough fun already, Crobat gets the move Roost which changes his typing, removing 3 weaknesses while adding a new one and allowing him to recover against Pokemon which he otherwise could not. Crobat's defensive stats are only average, but when combined with his typing, Roost, and the ability to Roost before almost any attacker is able to hit him, his defenses are transformed into something more.

It doesn't stop there. Crobat has support options available in the form of U-Turn and Taunt. With the fastest viable Taunt available in UU Crobat screws over all kinds of Pokemon, Taunting stall Pokemon out of their recovery, Taunting set-up, even supporting himself by Taunting SR users and dominating UU's lead game, thus making SR leads almost totally non-viable (when Registeel is reduced to running Zap Cannon you know you have a problem). U-Turn is a great move with Crobat if only because he's so fast. He can U-Turn before he is hit against the overwhelming majority of UU Pokemon, which equates to free damage. Crobat's U-Turn is like an entry hazard which applies whenever he is out, providing free residual damage for his team. It also allows his team to make strategic counter-maneuvers; by simply scouting a Regirock switch-in with U-Turn Crobat's team is able to bring in Shaymin for free, keeping the momentum on their side, and thus even Crobat's "counters" can find themselves in an unsavory position when attempting to switch in on him. Sound good to you? Again, this sounds too good to me.

The really amazing thing is that Crobat does this all with just one set. These aren't different things Crobat can do with various specially tailored sets, these positive aspects all occur on the single, standard Brave Bat set. How many Pokemon can realistically say that they pack all their best options into just one set? Such an ability is a separate advantage in and of itself, allowing Crobat to function as an incredibly versatile jack-of-all-trades. Crobat's array of varied and powerful tools combined with the fact that he has only one notable weak point (SR weakness) makes him into a Pokemon which is unmatched by any other in UU.

So why is Crobat a Suspect, then? After all, it sounds like he doesn't fully fulfill any one characteristic. I argue that the sum of Crobat's proficiency at all 3 characteristics is a total unmatched by any other Pokemon. No other Pokemon has even nearly the same overall combination of offense, defense and support. Blaziken is an offensive force but defensively frail and absolutely lacking in support options. Uxie has tons of support options but no recovery and no offense. Etc. Suppose that a score of 10 is required in any one of the three characteristics in order to be considered BL. Suppose that Pokemon A scores a 12 in offense, a 5 in defense, and a 1 in support. Pokemon A is BL. Suppose that Crobat scores a 6 in offense, a 7 in defense and a 7 in support. Pokemon A's total score across all three categories is 18, while Crobat's total score is 20. Thus, is Crobat not also BL? In such a unique case as Crobat's one must examine all three characteristics combined. The characteristics cannot be examined individually when the Pokemon possesses significant ability in each of the three characteristics, as obviously the sum of the three defines the overall worth of the Pokemon.

Again, when asked "Why not use this Pokemon?", Crobat's answer is better than that of any other UU Pokemon save maybe Shaymin. When asking this of any other Pokemon, one can always answer that the Pokemon is weak in at least one of the three BL characteristics, offense, defense or support. Nidoking is a good wall-breaker, and even has some support options available with SR and T-spikes (even though Nidoqueen is better at that), but with no recovery, weakness to common typings (most notably Water, which about 1 in 6 UU Pokemon get STAB on) and slightly below average defenses, he is lacking in the defensive characteristic. Lanturn makes a good special sponge, but is lacking at everything else. And so forth and so on. Crobat is the only UU Pokemon which can truthfully say that it is capable in all three characteristics using only one set.

In April Crobat jumped to the #2 lead and #8 most used Pokemon, while only being available for about half the month. Difficulty in countering it with standard UU Pokemon has led to the rise of specifically tailored Pokemon (such as the aforementioned Zap Cannon Registeel) and even entire teams (Team Die In A Fire Crobat was posted in RMT) designed to deal with Crobat. Clearly it is an overcentralizing force, and thus deserves investigation for that reason alone, as nothing gets the kind of attention Crobat has without good reason. If not for this reason, then for the ones I have outlined above, Crobat deserves Suspect status.

---

When naming the top 5 speed tiers in UU I forgot something, allow me to re-write it:

5. Sceptile: 120
4. Swellow: 125
3. Crobat: 130
2. Electrode: 140
1. Yanmega: Special Case

Obviously I am nominating this under the offensive characteristic. Yanmega plays very similarly to Shaymin. It is a powerful special sweeper with impressive coverage who is very difficult to wall. Thus, if Shaymin deserves nomination, I feel that Yanmega should also receive it.

Yanmega has a few obvious disadvantages compared to Shaymin, namely it has no 120 base power attack, and it is double weak to Stealth Rock, though the SR weakness is not as crushing as it sounds in the UU environment, where SR is less prevalent due to the absence of stuff like suicide SR leads and the ultimate spin blocker, Rotom-A. On the other hand, Yanmega has some pretty obvious advantages over Shaymin, aswell--it is able to outspeed Crobat after 1 turn, and indeed, outruns everything in the entire tier with no exceptions after 2 turns (99% of the tier after 1 turn). And while it has no 120 base power move, it gets STAB on two types instead of only one.

No offense to Tinted Lens, it's a really neat ability, but Speed Boost is what makes Yanmega really too much. When you introduce a sweeper with the ability to boost its speed into the heavens and beyond by doing nothing but sitting there, something is wrong already. This breaks one of the core concepts of the metagame, the concept of revenge killing. Many offensive teams rely on revenge killing certain threats to minimize their impact. However, if Crobat merely shatters this concept with 130 base speed, then Yanmega takes this concept, chews it up, shits it out and then spits on it. The absolute only way to revenge Yanmega is via priority, and this is too difficult to be reliable with the lack of viable Ice Shard users in UU (remember how exactly 0 UU Pokemon get Ice STAB?). This destruction of a basic metagame mechanic is excusable if the Pokemon is otherwise non-threatening, but with Yanmega nothing could be farther from the truth.

The only way to beat Yanmega is to wall him, but this can only be reliably done by Chansey. Registeel also takes a good shot at it, though with no recovery and the inability to pose an offensive threat to most things, it can be easily worn down earlier in the match to the point that Yanmega is able to KO with HP Ground, thus it is not always a reliable counter. Other than that it is very difficult to wall Yanmega with anything, many of the other UU Pokemon with high SpD are conveniently weak to his STABs (Umbreon, Uxie, Gardevoir, etc.). Like Shaymin, he has other moves available to take care of anything which resists his STAB attacks. Shadow Ball kills Rotom. Psychic takes care of Crobat. HP Ground hits Steels. Yanmega can even run a SubReversal set with a greatly improved chance to beat Chansey and Registeel. Best of all, Yanmega has Hypnosis, which gives him a realistic chance to disable and subsequently beat absolutely any of his counters except a healthy Chansey, thus sealing the deal on any notions that Yanmega can be reliably walled (again, except by Chansey, just watch out for Reversal).

Like Shaymin, Yanmega is able to beat any of his counters, and more importantly the list of counters to him is shockingly small to begin with. If Chansey is the only reliable counter, something is not right. And unlike Shaymin, you can't revenge kill him. Shaymin is difficult to revenge, Yanmega is near-impossible. All you can do in that department is use priority, but again, if such is the only method available then something is wrong, especially when there are no viable Ice Sharders. A Pokemon that is not only very difficult to reliably counter but is also able to literally outspeed everything in the entire tier is simply too much. Just for fun, behold, these are the Pokemon that, with one of his special attacking options, Yanmega is able to OHKO with SR up and a Petaya boost:

Bug Buzz:

Absol
Ambipom
Claydol
Espeon
Feraligatr (Bug Buzz vs a 4/0 spread, the most common: 83.97--99.04%, approximately 75% chance of OHKO)
Gardevoir
Honchkrow
Houndoom
Ludicolo
Mesprit
Kabutops
Omastar
Sceptile
Shaymin
Slowbro
Torterra
Uxie (if he invests in maximum Special Defense he can survive, but looking at the April stats most don't)

Air Slash:

Blaziken
Charizard
Hariyama
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Moltres
Poliwrath
Primeape
Roserade
Scyther
Swellow
Toxicroak
Venusaur
Other Yanmega

HP Ground:

Arcanine
Drapion
Magmortar
Electrode
Nidoking
Ninetales
Typhlosion

Psychic:

Crobat
Nidoqueen
Weezing

Shadow Ball:

Mismagius
Rotom

I count 43, out of a tier of 58. Approximately 75% of the tier, can be potentially OHKO'd and obviously outsped with one turn of setup from the SubPetaya set (if SR isn't up you don't get your Petaya Boost right away, but either they attack you and let you sub down to it anyway, or they don't and you sit behind a sub and get to spam attacks at them for free, either way the results are the same or better). Cool, huh? I think that safely qualifies as a majority of the tier that can be OHKO'd with their standard EV spreads, and I don't need to remind you that Yanmega will be outspeeding them all. Keep in mind that of the stuff which isn't OHKO'd by any of these moves, most of it is dangerously close to being so, like Blastoise and Umbreon, and Yanmega can always carry Hypnosis as a general tool. So I'd say this definitely fulfills the offensive characteristic.




WJC3688:
Shaymin: Accept, I didn't get the stat discussion but the rest made up for it. This applies to all of your nominations btw.

Crobat: Accept

Yanmega: Accept.
 
Shaymin

Shaymin pretty clearly dominates in UU. The Life Orb set outspeeds most of the metagame, and is very hard to stop offensively. Certain Pokemon, such as Moltres, Crobat, Roserade, and Altaria, are capable of switching in on Shaymin if it lacks the right move in the fourth slot, but this is very situational. If Shaymin carries HP Ice, it will kill or severely damage Crobat, Roserade, and Altaria, but miss out on Moltres. If it has HP Rock, it can kill Crobat, Altaria, and Moltres, but miss out on Roserade. All of these counters are very situational.

The only "safe" switch-ins are dedicated special walls like Chansey, Umbreon, or Regice, but Chansey and Umbreon can lose if Shaymin gets a Seed Flare drop, and their only means of damaging Shaymin is Wish + Protect + Toxic stalling. Regice fares slightly better, avoiding Seed Flare drops thanks to Clear Body and threatening Shaymin with STAB Ice Beam, there's always the argument that Shaymin can just switch out and heal with Rest, while Regice's switch-ins are limited thanks to Stealth Rock weakness. This is also ignoring the fact that Regice is simply not a very good Pokemon in the current UU metagame.

If Shaymin chooses not to run Rest or Synthesis, it always has the option of running Seed Flare/Earth Power/Hidden Power Rock/Air Slash, which gets almost complete coverage.

And that is just the Life Orb set. The Subseed set is easily capable of outstalling the aforementioned special walls, while maintaining a decent offensive threat. Basically, Life Orb and Subseed Shaymin have completely different counters. With Life Orb, its safest counters are slow special walls, while the Subseeder's best counters are Pokemon that can threaten Shaymin offensively, like Moltres, Roserade, or Crobat.

And all of this is with 100/100/100 defenses. Shaymin gets free switch-ins on the common bulky Water-types, Ground-types, and Rock-types, such as Slowbro, Regirock, or Quagsire. Walls like Registeel who can switch in and avoid a 2HKO or 3HKO but lack recovery lose to Shaymin, because they usually can't 2HKO Shaymin in return, and Shaymin can restore HP with Synthesis or Rest, and doesn't mind Thunder Wave or Toxic in the long run thanks to Natural Cure.

Overall, Shaymin is a very sturdy Pokemon that has virtually no safe switch-ins and excellent defenses to allow itself switch-ins.

Ludicolo

With perfect coverage with Surf/Ice Beam/Energy Ball, 478 Speed in the Rain, and double STAB Surfs, it's easy to see why Ludicolo is capable of such destruction in the Rain.

Unlike Shaymin, with Ludicolo there is no option of "switch in Crobat on the Grass attack", because with Ludicolo's Rain-boosted Speed, Ludicolo outspeeds anything short of Scarf Shaymin, so there are very few Pokemon that can switch in on Ludicolo, outspeed, and force it out. Even without the speed, the sheer strength of Ludicolo's Surf and his excellent type coverage means that playing with resistances is a very risky game. Ludicolo's Grass STAB means that it can break the bulky waters that wall rain sweepers like Omastar. Your best option is, again, bulky walls like Chansey and Registeel, but Ludicolo has Focus Punch to help it around Chansey, doing 64-76% to 252 Def/4 HP Bold Chansey, with Hydro Pump doing 38-45% to that same Chansey, killing it most of the time without Stealth Rocks, guaranteed with Stealth Rocks. Against 252 Def/252 SpD/4 HP Calm Chansey, Focus Punch does 70-82%, and Hydro Pump does 35-41%, making a KO even more likely than against Bold Chansey.

A SpD oriented Registeel will do a decent job of stopping Ludicolo, though it will lose if it lacks Thunder Wave or Explosion, in which case Ludicolo has done its job by making it much easier for a back-up Special sweeper like Omastar to clean up what's left. Besides Registeel, two other Pokemon capable of stopping a Ludicolo in the rain are Qwilfish and Toxicroak, both of which are quite uncommon, and both are hit fairly hard if they use offensive EV spreads. That's three "solid" Ludicolo counters. Virtually every other Pokemon in UU cannot stop a Ludicolo. Teams without one of those three Pokemon are a "significant" portion of teams, I'd say.

Otherwise, your options are to use powerful priority attacks like Honchkrow's Sucker Punch or Ambipom's Fake Out, or to switch around and use resistances until Rain is up, which could mean 5 or 6 turns of perfect prediction in order to avoid being swept. If you have to resort to these tactics, it's pretty clear that Ludicolo is pretty overpowering.

Some have argued that rain is not a "common battling condition", and Ludicolo therefore does not fulfill the offensive characteristic, because without Rain Ludicolo is obviously not "Suspect-worthy". However, I argue that Rain is easy to set up in common battling characteristics, and Ludicolo can sweep with ease in the rain in common battling characteristics.

Honchkrow

(coming soon)


umbarsc:
Shaymin: Borderline Accept, I would've liked to see you tied this better into the characteristics in question. I got what you were getting at; but elaboration and better tie-back would be nice.

Ludicolo: Accept.

Honckrow: Reject, Coming Soon isn't good enough x)
 
To be honest, I'm pretty satisfied with the current metagame. Although certain Pokemon like Slowbro, Honchkrow, Shaymin, and the like are getting a lot of attention, I find that the current metagame is pretty balanced, especially with the inclusion of Crobat and Yanmega. I'm still posting to reserve a spot in case I find something in the next few hours though.

MapleSandwich: Sure.
 
Crobat

As I have stated in a previous thread, and as Gay_Dolphin has reiterated here, Crobat is the most versatile pokemon in the tier while using only one set. Although Crobat is not the offensive powerhouse, the defensive wall, or support-based lifeline that typically defines a borderline pokemon, by using the standard Brave Bird, Taunt, Roost, U-Turn set it proves itself to be a combination of the three which exceeds the power of any other borderline choice. As such, it is imperative that Crobat be judged not on any individual characteristic, but on the sum of all three.

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.


Offensively, Crobat's Brave bird is among the three strongest flying attacks in the tier - losing only to Swellow and Honchkrow. Considering the power of flying attacks in a tier severely lacking viable rock or steel types, it is obvious why these three have received such high usage. The primary difference between Crobat and the other two is its ability to stay in the game for a prolonged amount of time. Although Crobat lacks the offensive options of Honchkrow or Swellow for dealing with Physical walls, Crobat is the only one who can effectively make use of Roost to the point that it is available at any juncture in the match. Bravebird is capable of doing neutral damage or better to 18 of the 23 pokemon with better than base 90 defense in the tier. Even of the 5 that resist Bravebird, only Regirock, Steelix, and Kabutops provide any imminent danger. However, thanks to U-turn, Crobat is granted a free switch out while still dealing at least neutral damage to any viable switch in other than Registeel and Steelix. Due to U-turn and Bravebird, it is nearly impossible to stall Crobat out for any manageable amount of time. Anything that resists Bravebird will see U-turn, while a crit from Bravebird has the potential to open up a 2hko on even the sturdiest of physical walls such as Slowbro or Uxie.

Also, due to Crobat's bulk, the ability to Roost, and it's powerful Brave Bird, Crobat is actually capable of defeating some of it's physical walls one-on-one. The most notable example of this is its ability to kill Registeel. In order for Registeel to deal more than 50% damage to a 104 HP roosting Crobat with Earthquake, Registeel requires 100 attack EVs. Ice Punch does a meager 19% to a roosting Crobat, and only 38% when not roosting. Iron Head does 30% damage to Crobat if you assume these same 100 attack evs. The problem however is that if Registeel is not running Earthquake (due to a preference for status or curse), it becomes nearly impossible for Registeel to kill Crobat without exploding. Taunt stops Curse and Rest, so eventually Crobat can wear down Registeel while constantly roosting off the damage. Steelix which do not carry Earthquake (granted they are far less common than Registeel without the move) run into similar problems. Gyroball simply does not deal enough damage without significant cursing (0 IV Speed, 0 EVs, and - Speed nature still only does 133 damage average out of Crobat's standard 337 HP - 40% ). Meanwhile, Crobat fires back with 20-25% damage Brave Birds. While it certainly takes Crobat a significant amount of time to drop Registeel or Steelix, it is entirely doable. Only Regirock has the attack power necessary to kill Crobat whether it chooses to Roost or not while also eating the brave birds. Without Explosion, the two of the three major physical walls that are resistant to Brave Bird all eventually fall. In the even that they do explode, Crobat has opened the door for a physical sweeper.


Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.


Defensively speaking, Crobat's typing provides it with three X4 resistances and an immunity. Although Bug attacks are not as common in UU as in OU, fighting attacks are among the most popular in the tier. Crobat's above-average defenses, fantastic resistances, and roost provide it with a longevity nearly unparalleled in the tier. Furthermore, U-turn again provides Crobat with a sure-fire switch out of anything other than a priority attack. Of the priority attacks, only Ice Shard from Cloyster and Piloswine are capable of dealing more than the 53% (47% after leftovers) necessary to 2 shot Crobat. Cloyster requires 252 attack EVs, a beneficial nature, and a life orb in order to reach that number, while Piloswine is an unevolved pokemon that doesn't even make the NU list. Although both have the ability to threaten Crobat, neither one has much use afterwards. By investing so heavily in attack, Cloyster lacks its defensive capabilities, and likely will be unable to drop spikes. Piloswine has significantly lower attacking, defensive, and speed stats than Mamoswine and thus loses the vast majority of it's appearl.


Crobat does not properly "wall" anything in the sense that Steelix, Regirock, or Registeel wall the vast majority of physical attacks. It does however provide an excellent switch in to a large amount of the UU metagame due to it's quad resists to grass and fighting, immunity to ground, and ability to recover any lost damage while quickly and effectively scaring off any of the primary sweepers in the tier. Blaziken, Shaymin, and Yanmega are all at a severe disadvantage if they attempt to go toe to toe with Crobat as none of them have the ability to effectively attack it. Therefore, as a result of Crobat's decent defenses, excellent typing, and U-turn, it becomes a near impossible pokemon to take down by brute force.



Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.


From a support stand-point, 130 base speed combined with taunt is arguably the best support possible. Crobat's fast taunt shuts down the vast majority of lead pokemon, allows Crobat to stave off all status attacks (which would be crippling towards it), and cripples stall teams. As another poster mentioned, Taunt and 130 speed is acceptable on Aerodactyl in OU due to it's awful typing, atrocious defenses, and the sheer power of the OU metagame. UU as a whole lacks the ability to play pure offense, and as a result is geared more towards status, stealth rock, and spikes. Offensive teams typically open with a Fake-out user such as Persian or Aipom. Crobat's Inner Focus ability combined with its speed, defenses, and attack power allow it to nullify any attempt Persian or Aipom makes to get free damage and switch out. Fake Out will deal minimal damage without flinching and U-turn is quad resisted. Futhermore, Crobat single handedly can ruin almost every stall team in the tier simply because it is unlikely to ever be killed in the process of a stall team setting up. Due to Taunt spikes and stealth rock have a minimal chance of seeing the battle field, status moves are nullified, and Crobat may then U-turn to the ideal offensive weapon to handle the current stalling pokemon.

More importantly, Crobat's taunt, roost, and U-turn make it the ideal part of a stall team. By combining it's sturdiness from Roost with U-turn for eased switch predictions (as you know whether or not the opponent switches), and taunt, Crobat is capable of stopping any pokemon from setting up on it. Calm Mind Misdreavus fails to 1hko with Thunderbolt unless calm minds are already up. Kabutops, Feraligator, Aand Drapion have no chance of 2 shotting Crobat without some sort of boost. By taunting, Crobat removes the opportunity for the vast majority of sweepers to do their job, and then has the ability to Roost off any damage taken or U-turn to an effective counter. By using the three moves to its advantage, Crobat blocks set-up while quickly allowing it's teammate to set-up in ideal circumstances due to the U-turn switch.



I honestly do not believe that Crobat satisfies the offensive requirement the way Starraptor or Raikou do. Nor does it satisfy the support role that Abomasnow or Froslass does; however, with one of the least varied movesets in the game Crobat has managed to be the most versatile pokemon in the tier. It is vital to stall, balanced, and offensive teams due to it's combined prowess as a Support/Anti-stall, offensive sweeper, and defensive wall. Only Clefable rivals the versatility that Crobat has, but Clefable requires a new set for each job each time. Crobat can do every job in the game at the same time. As a result, being slightly less than the required offensive capability, slightly less than the required defensive capability, and slightly less than the required support capability creates a monster. Crobat is the red mage of UU. The difference being that it is almost always the best choice for any slot on any team regardless of the role needed to fill. If you need a sweeper, use Crobat. If you need a defensive pokemon, use Crobat. If you need a lead pokemon, especially an anti-lead pokemon, use Crobat. If you need to beat stall teams while simultaneously building your own stall team, use Crobat. Other than Blissey in GSC OU, I'm not sure there has ever been a pokemon that does so much for a team that it is essentially required.










Shaymin

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.


Shaymin is an unlikely sweeper in many regards. Grass is among the worst offensive types in the game with 7 types taking half damage from it. Combine that with the abundance of viable Flying, poison, and fire types in the tier and it seems worse. However, of the 21 pokemon with over 100 base special defense in the tier, only 7 - Registeel, Venusaur, Shaymin, Ninetales, Roselade, Muk, and Altaria resist - seed flare. Of that list, only Ninetales Venusaur, Roselade, Muk, and Altaria have the ability to do anything back to Shaymin. Furthermore, within the shortlist of pokemon capable of hurting Shaymin, only Ninetales ties or betters in speed. In fact, the only pokemon capable of eating Shaymin's attacks while also providing a viable threat is Crobat.

Shaymin, in the current metagame is not a super powerful threat, simply because it's perfect counter is the single most popular pokemon in the tier. However, considering that the vast majority of votes in this thread have included Crobat, one must be wary of Shaymin becoming dominant. With Earth Power, Seed Flare, HP Ice, and Leech Seed, Shaymin lacks an effective counter in the bracket other than the Poison/Flying bat. Leech Seed cripples Chansey, Earth power destroys Registeel, Muk and Ninetales, and HP Ice eats other Grass types and Altaria for lunch. Although Registeel can be EVd to the point that Earth Power is a minimal threat at best, when combined with Leech seed and Shaymin's effective immunity to status through Natural Cure, even Registeel fails as a viable counter.

Shaymin has the ability to switch into the vast majority of pokemon in the bracket due to Grasses excellent defensive typing when dealing with ground, electric, and water moves (among the most common attacks). While ice attacks are threatening in OU, they tend to be much less common in the UU bracket where Dragons are less rampant. Shaymin's offensive capabilities are almost guaranteed to force a switch, allowing the chia pet to either substitute, leech seed, or just start unloading destruction on the opponent.

As I mentioned previously, currently Shaymin is not a threat due to the rampant use of Crobat; however, the removal of Crobat provides an ideal situation for Shaymin as it's only viable counter is gone. If Crobat is listed as borderline, Shaymin must go with it.


Edit 1: More information on Support for Crobat
Edit 2: Grammar and Spelling
Edit 3: More information on Offense for Crobat


jimmyolsen (hi, post more, I like you):
Shaymin: Accepted
Crobat: Accepted
 
Crobat

Easily the most used pokemon alongside shaymin in the UU tier for good reasons. It has a 130 base speed allowing it to out speed every Un-Scarfed/Un boosted speed pokemon in the UU tier with the exception of Electrode. More than decent typing in fact excellent with 4x resistences to Bug, Steel, Grass and immunity to ground and a of course the 2x resist to poison.

Though one set is used it's incredibly effective. The "Brave bat" combo is certainly expected on crobat as it's the best set on normal balanced UU teams. Brave bird the strongest flying move with STAB is never something to smock at. Here are some damage calcs for UU pokes. (Most of the overused pokemon in the UU tier according to the April Statistics)

Assuming Brave Bat Spread:

Damage Calcs

Brave Bird vs Min HP / def Shaymin 82.70% - 97.07%
Brave Bird vs Max HP / 144 def Bold Claydol 33.33% - 39.20%
Brave Bird vs Max HP / 72 def Impish Hitmontop 81.91% - 96.38%

Brave Bird vs 108 HP Mismagius 73.61% - 86.46%
Brave Bird vs 148 HP / 252 Bold Milotic 32.07% - 37.77%
Brave Bird vs 0 HP / 0 Def Roserade OHKO (173.18% - 203.83%)
Brave Bird vs 0 HP / 0 Def Ambipom 67.70% - 79.73%

As you can see from a collection of some of the most Used UU pokemon Brave Bird, Crobat's most used attack takes masses of damage away from what are supposedly the biggeset UU threats and walls. Taking about 33% from claydol and Milotic. So assuming SR is up and Your opponent switches one of them in to a brave bat, They're supposed wall is nearly half dead.


Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

As shown above with the Brave Bird calcs. Crobat can single handedly cripple UU teams with Brave birds. U-Turn is also there to hit Psychics in the tier for very acceptable damage while getting switch advantage. As stated by posts above yes Crobat does like the power of Honchkrow and Swellow but by looking at both of them they have 2 big disadvantages over Crobat
1. Honchkrow and Swellow are both slower than Crobat.
2. Honchkrow lacks U-Turn making the switch less damaging and making Honchkrow a poor scouter as you must predict the switch and go with the double switch which sometimes may not work out. Whereas with U-turn you can see what your opponent brings in and then switch out to an appropriate counter. And Honchkrow though with super effective moves can't single handedly take down the physical walls of UU i.e Steelix and Registeel and neither can Crobat but it can U-turn out on the switch in giving you the advantage once again.
3. Swellow requires the orbs to kick in its guts which is when it poses a threat as with no orb it has a measly attack stat.
4. Swellow has bad bulk making it susceptible to being killed by Priority moves.
As you can see Crobat is the best "convenience" bird in UU.



Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

Ah a characteristic many of those who think is totally not on Crobat. Truth of the matter, it is there staring you in the eye. Though its stats don't look promising it's not the only thing that makes walls. It is also resistences. A thing Crobat has a lot of. Probably the Best Specs Shaymin/LO Shaymin counter in the game. With 4x Resistence to Seed Flare it can come in on the LO Shaymin and Threaten and almost guarantee OHKO back after calculating LO recoil. Resisting all of Shaymin's move excluding HP's it's easily one of the best Shaymin Counters if not the best. And many sweepers in UU will find themselves having trouble dealing with this beast sweepers meaning Blaziken, Yanmega, Shaymin, Scyther, Hitmonlee and even Missy has some troubles if it switches in on a Brave bird. Overall it doesn't have gigantic stats but its resistances and speed to outspeed sweepers makes up hugely for that.





Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.


Maybe it's strongest characteristic. With 130 taunt going breaking down walls its extremely frustrating for players to counter this guy. Forcing switches then U-Turning out to a appropriate counter makes your opponents life very Uncomfortable with this guy lurking. SR weakness does make it a bit iffy on the switch in but it's access to roost makes up for that with ease. Roost also nullifies flying which can help actually if your fighting a missy with T-Bolt as you outspeed it and take neutral damage. Oh and Hypnosis provided it hits can be incredibly fustrating for your opponents. And crobat can go all out stall if it wants with toxic access and roost stall allows beating down of walls easy. I have played many crobats before and I still find them difficult to trap down and nail especially against a player who is out predicting you. Also comparing it to other supports like umbreon Crobat in some ways crobat can better thanks to its speed.

EDIT needed to complete post

StrategyFocus: Borderline Accept, you listed a bunch of facts but didn't really coherently tie them together to fit in the framework of "why it was potentially broken." I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt given your thorough review and I understand that this was likely your over-arching point, but attempt to be more literal with your write-ups.
 
So, my one nomination: Moltres


I realize this is a hot topic right now on Moltres' stance in UU, but right now, I think it currently fits enough characteristics to be BL. When you can glance past the Stealth Rock weakness, you will see a Pokemon that falls into all three categories, and a Pokemon that can literally be impossible to stop from either destroying your team, or setting up a different Pokemon.

I'm going to start with the most important category in my opinion; support characteristics. Although Moltres doesn't give "direct support" to its teammates, (Reflect, Light Screen, ect.), Moltres does give them a free and open playing field when let loose. When you realize that to stop Moltres, usually bulky Water-types, such as Milotic and Slowbro, or Rock-types, such as Regirock, are pretty important. However, these Pokemon are very much "cores" of teams when realizing just how dangerous other Pokemon such as Honchkrow, Crobat, Arcanine, ect. are concerned. If you want to stop Moltres' offensive onslaught, you will realize that the indirect support he gives to other teammates such as Crobat and Honchkrow, who mind you, are pretty much only stopped by Moltres counters, is too great of an advantage.

These support characteristics roll right into my next subject, and that is the Offensive Characteristic. To emphasize what jrrrrrrr said, Moltres' Life Orb Fire Blast and Air Slash "absolutely" destroys many of todays top Pokemon, defensive Pokemon no less. When Chansey has a chance to be 3HKOed by Moltres' Fire Blast, then you know something is wrong. Honestly, to stop Moltres, you have to rely solely on type resistances, which again, allows Moltres to dent or KO these Pokemon, just enough for other immensely powerful sweepers such as Honchkrow and Crobat, who are stopped by these Pokemon, to sweep through teams. With Moltres having access to Hidden Power and Roost, allowing him to stay alive for a while even with Stealth Rock on the field as well as take on the strong Rock- and Water-types, you just have one hell of a monster, that opens up the game for other strong beasts.

Defensively, Moltres' SubRoost set along with Toxic and your choice of Fire-type attack, simply becomes too much for an opponent to simply break. Even with the moves so similar, you must rely on entirely different methods to defeat Moltres, and these methods are extremely hard to find. With Pressure, Moltres really just says "sorry, but you can't beat me", to many "counters" such as Clefable, Chansey, Regirock, ect. And if you attempt to Roar or Whirlwind it out in hopes of dealing Stealth Rock damage, good luck, you will most likely be eating Fire Blast for your troubles (unless you are running something such as Roar Arcanine, and I think that just shows how much of a problem Moltres is, if thats how you deal with it).

Teams are simply fretting no matter what they do when they realize they need to prepare for Moltres. Absolutely nothing else can simply take down or remove "counters" like Moltres does, and doing this, it absolutely breaks the support characteristic.


That is all I want to nominate, everything else is pretty much well under containment.


KD24: Accept, more general analysis would've been appreciated though.
 

Reverb

World's nicest narcissist
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I have a total of three suspect nominations.
1. Ludicolo:
Offensive: Ludicolo's switf swin boost and grass/water/ice attack combo is a huge threat to any UU team that does not have Chansey. Ludicolo can hit any pokemon for neutral damage and access to Life Orb let's moves like surf hit for huge damage.
Defensive: Ludicolo cannot be 2HKOed by LO Arcanine's Extremspeed. This is an example of a common UU priority move. Thus, with swift swim, Ludicolo is not going to be taking many hits.

2. Uxie:
Defensive: Uxie is able to suck up many high powered hits while striking the opponent back. E.G. LO Arcanine's Overheat and Flare Blitz combined will not kill a bulky Uxie.
Support: Uxie can leaisurely set up Stealth Rock and Rain Dance without even dying.

3. Milotic:
Defensive/Support: My LO Adamant Feraligatr can only sometimes 3HKO Milotic with EQ. All convention Shaymin sets fail to OHKO Milotic with leech seed. Additionally, it's MArvel Scale ability allows it to attain huge defenses to stall out the opponent with the Rest Set on stall teams.



ReVeRb: Rejected all. These were just not up to par. Looking at other people's nominations, it should be obvious yours lacked the necessary content to be accepted.
 
Support Characteristic

@ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Hp/ 252 Spd/4 SDef
Jolly nature
- U-turn
- Encore
- Memento
- Sleep Powder
---

I'm nominating Jumpluff under the support Characteristic for several of reasons. First of all Jumpluff out speeds all but six UU Pokemon and that includes a tie with Espeon. Jumpluff's speed is like a built in priority move except that high Speed doesn't apply to only a single move like priority--it applies to every single one of a Pokemon's moves. Jumpluff's typing is just amazing as well and with resistances to water and fighting, 4x resistance to grass, and immunity to ground attacks; Jumpluff won't have a hard time switching in and if one desired they could simply use Synthesis over Encore or Memento for instant recovery. With the set listed Jumpluff completely takes control of almost any given situation, so essentially Jumpluff can "cram" all of it's important moves into a single centralized moveset. Sleep Powder and Memento messes with almost any switch-in-Pokemon allowing for for -Pluff to either U-turn out to setup another Pokemon or simply switch a Pokemon in to take advantage of Memento. Jumpluff needs only two turns to setup essentially any thing you want and the two turns needed is the initial switch and any given support move and the Jumpluff user has complete control. Despite what usage statistics say this is enough evidence against Jumpluff for it to be considered a suspect.

Edit and Update:

Also, I'm not going to bother comparing Jumpluff's support characteristics to OU Pokemon because it is COMPLETELY irrelevant to UU.

Offensive Characteristic



Yanmega absolutely destroys teams that don't carry a Special wall thus allows him to clean up frail teams with relative ease. Again here are some valid reasons to why he meets the offensive criteria. First off, Abilities, not one "broken" ability but two. The first and most common Speed boost. Speed Boost allows Yanmega to out speed after two boosts. Which is really irrelvent since he can outspeed most scarfers after one boost. So he essentially has a built in Choice Scarf and the Ability to carry Life Orb, Specs, or Focus Sash which increases his offensive prowess. What makes Yanmega even more of a punk is that he has another ability, Tinted Lens, which will make you pay for switching in a checkl that plays off resistences. Since Tinten Lens ignores typing your would be check isn't really viable any more since Yanmega is able to 2hko damn near anything that isn't a wall without the need of a super effective attack. Yanmega's stats aren't exactly horrid either. 116 Base Special Attack and 95 base speed is nothing to scoff at. With Speed Boost your choice scarfer won't have a chance in most cases unless your using a +speed nature... which is far from common on a choice scarfer. Finally, Yanmega has options such as Hypnosis, U-turn, Protect (Speed Boost), and Reversal in its arsonal to make your life and your counter's life's a little more harder.

Here is an example:

Code:
Senkobeast switched in Yanmega (lvl 100 Yanmega ?).
Yanmega used Air Slash.
It's super effective!
Toxicroak lost 90% of its health.
ex point's Toxicroak fainted.
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
ex point switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Yanmega used Hypnosis.
Blastoise fell asleep!
Blastoise is fast asleep!
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
ex point switched in Kadabra (lvl 100 Kadabra ?).
Yanmega used Substitute.
Yanmega lost 25% of its health.
Yanmega made a substitute!
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Yanmega used Bug Buzz.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Kadabra lost 0% of its health.
ex point's Kadabra fainted.
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
ex point switched in Honchkrow (lvl 100 Honchkrow ?).
Yanmega used Air Slash.
Honchkrow lost 56% of its health.
Honchkrow flinched!
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
Yanmega used Air Slash.
Honchkrow lost 44% of its health.
ex point's Honchkrow fainted.
Yanmega's Speed Boost raised its speed!
---
ex point switched in Rhydon (lvl 100 Rhydon ?).
Yanmega used Bug Buzz.
Rhydon lost 88% of its health.
Rhydon used Stone Edge.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The substitute took damage for Yanmega!
Yanmega's substitute faded!
Yanmega's speed won't go higher!
---
Yanmega used Bug Buzz.
Rhydon lost 12% of its health.
ex point's Rhydon fainted.
Yanmega's speed won't go higher!
---
ex point switched in Jumpluff (lvl 100 Jumpluff ?).
Yanmega used Air Slash.
It's super effective!
Jumpluff lost 39% of its health.
ex point's Jumpluff fainted.
Yanmega's speed won't go higher!
---
ex point switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Yanmega used Substitute.
Yanmega lost 25% of its health.
Yanmega made a substitute!
Blastoise is fast asleep!
Yanmega's speed won't go higher!
---
Yanmega used Bug Buzz.
Blastoise lost 46% of its health.
Blastoise is fast asleep!
Yanmega's speed won't go higher!
---
Yanmega used Bug Buzz.
Blastoise lost 47% of its health.
Blastoise woke up!
Blastoise used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The substitute took damage for Yanmega!
Yanmega's substitute faded!
Yanmega's speed won't go higher!
---
Yanmega used Bug Buzz.
Blastoise lost 7% of its health.
ex point's Blastoise fainted.
Senkobeast wins!
Brief summary of log...

It is mid way through match and I'm up to 5-3 or something. I kill a Pokemon and he switches in Yanmega. I stay in due to lack of special wall to take a hit and hope that it's Modest so that Toxicroak would be faster and kill it with Stone Edge. Obviously not, so I send in a check... Specs Blastoise whose Ice Beam musters 87.54% - 102.88% Yanmega. Hypnosis renders my check useless. I send in death fodder so I can send in my other check... Subs in my face, flinch hax's my Honchkrow, and thats game. The item and moveset suggests that it was Sub Petya set.. one of the many deadly Yanmega sets.



Exclamantion Point:
Jumpluff & Yanmega: Rejected, you didn't really even bother with a characteristics and listed facts I could look up in a Pokedex.
 
Support

Crobat



What can I say that most haven't already said? Crobat has been running around unchecked without any faster pokemon (save Electrode) to counter it. And here begins the first problem. Without a choice scarf or speed-boosting move, nothing can outspeed Crobat. Using a choice scarfer basically means a free switch-in for a counter. It taunts everything else. With U-turn, any slightly threatening counters (Slowbro, Uxie, Regirock, Registeel) can be avoided easily.

With max attack/Jolly, Crobat averages 22% damage on Slowbro with U-turn- which would be miniscule if not for the fact that Crobat can keep Slowbro from recovering that health back. Slowbro even fails to OHKO back with STAB Psychic and 44 EVs of SpA investment, meaning if Crobat somehow stayed in it would just be able to switch out and recover the damage back later.


Perhaps one of the worst parts of Crobat are its moveset. Brave Bird, a 120 BP STAB attack, is resisted only by 9 of the 50+ pokemon in UU. Normally, it's offset by the immense recoil, but Roost allows Crobat to continually use it u
ntil it decides it's not needed. SubRoost sets with unrivaled speed allow Crobat to Brave Bird or Taunt anything trying to stand in its way. Taunt will shut down any walls or supporters stupid enough to attempt to switch in for a free set-up. Roost forces the enemy to play a complex guessing game because of
constantly shifting resistances, with a wrong guess being penalized with taunt or u-turn.

Now, on to the support characteristic. Crobat is unquestionably the best lead in UU. It taunts away any pesky stealth rockers. Since it's the second-fastest, there's no surprises here. It will U-turn out of anything that can be a potential anti-lead.
Being a flying/poison type means it's resistant to 4 types and immune to 1. The typical counters, Rock, Steel, Ice and Electric types are sorely underrepresented in UU, and are for the most part ineffectual.

Crobat is probably the best counter for wallbreakers and walls in UU. Crobat laughs off 252 Adamant STAB Superpower from Blaziken with an average 27% damage and retaliates with Brave Bird. Honchkrow's 252 Adamant STAB Night Slash barely reaps a 2HKO 17% of the time if Crobat uses Leftovers (which it does over 2/3 of the time). Hitmonlee and Hitmontop (the most effective spinner) are OHKOed by max attack/jolly Brave Bird and 252/252 Drapion is 3HKOed without much effort. Crobat is pretty much unmatched in bulkiness because of its typing, and can pair with the likes of Blissey, Azumarill and Milotic for optimum coverage.




I'll write Shaymin and Mismagius in later.


XenoIncognito: Borderline Accept, I would've liked to see you better connect characteristics to the ideas you were writing about; but I got enough of a general idea that I'll let it fly.
 
I'm going to nominate Porygon2.

Though Porygon2 is not as common as the other nominees, it can counter some of the most problematic Pokemon in the metagame, namely the dreaded Crobat/Shaymin combo.

Offensive Characteristic:
Sporting a respectable 105 base special attack, it ties Mismagius and Sceptile. Porygon2 is not made for the job of sweeping, but it can easily sweep if the need arises. Trace allows Porygon2 to copy abilities such as Ninetale's Flash Fire, Omastar and Kabutop's Swift Swim, and Uxie and Mespirit's Levitate. Access to Psych Up allows Poygon2 to turn the boosts of sweepers against them. Receiving speed or special attack boosts via baton pass makes Porygon2 extremely annoying.

Defensive Characteristic:
With above-average defensive stats (85/90/95), access to an instant recovery move, and only one weakness, Porygon2 is bulky enough to go the distance. It does not have the incredible defenses of the Regis or Uxie, but the lack of weakness to common moves will help both Porygon2 and your team in the long run.

Support Characteristic:
This is where the cyber-duck shines. Access to Trick Room, Magic Coat, Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Sunny Day/Rain Dance gives him a movepool to boast about. Although gimmicky, Porygon2 can utelize the exclusive moves Conversion and Conversion2. Porygon2 can use either Rest or Recover to heal himself, while the Regis and Uxie must rely on Rest. Porygon2 has one of the best support movepools in UU, and supporting the team is what he (She?) does best.

Summary:
Porygon2's good stat distribution, great movepool, and fantastic ability allow it to be an underrated threat to many teams. Despite the fact that it is not often seen, Porygon2 should be considered a suspect in UU.

Next, I will nominate Milotic.

Defensive Characteristic:
With Milotic's unique ablity, Marvel Scale, it's decent 79 base Defense soars 50%. Coupled with it's 125 base Special Defense and only 2 weaknesses, Milotic is tough to take down. Max attack Torterra's Wood Hammer will rarely KO Milotic under Marvel Scale while Milotic can OHKO it with Ice Beam. Access to both Rest and Recover help Milotic's staying power.

Support Characteristic:
Milotic has access to many support moves, such as Toxic, both of the screens, Rain Dance, Hypnosis, Confuse Ray, Haze, Mirror Coat, and Protect. Any team can utelize these options, Milotic can make good use of any of them.

Summary:
With an ability like Marvel Scale, an impressive offensive and support movepool, and great stat distribution, Milotic deserves to be a suspect in UU. A pokemon with such versatility does not deserve to stay in UU.

And last, but by no means least, Gardevoir.
Offensive Characterisitic:
Gardevoir's impressive base 125 special attack can put a dent in many a pokemon. It's special attack stat is tied with Magmortar and Roserade, two fine (and frail) sweepers for second best in the UU tier. Gardevoir has Focus Blast, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Grass Knot, Energy Ball, and Charge Beam as well as Calm Mind to boost it's impressive special stats. Despite the fact that Gardevoir is normally used as a cleric or special tank allows the sweeping sets to be unexpected and therefore more of a threat to an unsuspecting team.

Support Characteristic:
Gardevoir's support movepool is almost endless. The screens, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Trick Room, Wish, Sunny Day/Rain Dance/Hail, Psych Up, Momento, Mean Look, Lucky Chant, Hypnosis, and Healing Wish are are all options for Gardevoir. Gardevoir can put all these moves to good use, and fits well in many a UU team.

Summary:
Sweeping or supporting, Gardevoir can work well in almost any team. Not many Pokemon can sweep and support at the same time, but Gardevoir can do both extremely well, which is why it should be a suspect for UU.


Technicolor Apocalypse: Rejected all. There are a whole bunch of factual inaccuracies and you list things I could look up in a pokedex rather than discussing the metagame implications of these particular Pokemon.
 

Syberia

[custom user title]
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I am going to nominate Shaymin under the offensive characteristic. With a Life Orb and a basic set of Seed Flare/Earth Power/HP Rock/Psychic (Air Slash), it can 2HKO everything in UU except for Chansey, Registeel, Regice, and perhaps some extremely defensive shit that's never used. Even Crobat, who is commonly touted as the premier Shaymin counter, has to invest max HP and a lot of Sp. Def EVs to avoid an OHKO if switching into Stealth Rock and Psychic.

Of the three pokemon I mentioned who can actually switch into Shaymin without dying the next turn, only Regice poses a direct offensive threat to it (Chansey can win with Seismic Toss as long as Shaymin doesn't have Leech Seed). And Regice is SR weak and can't actually do anything except sit there and take hits until it eventually dies or gets set up on by something. Registeel's only hope of beating Shaymin is to explode, while Chansey can either stall it out with Wish + Protect, or else be forced to switch out due to Seed Flare's 40% chance of lowering Sp. Def. Which is another point in favor of Shaymin's BL-ness: predict correctly, send in a resist, and there's still a 40% chance that you'll end up at -2 Sp. Def, where the Shaymin user can still kill you by using the right move.

Of the few pokemon that can counter the Life Orb set, only Regice can potentially come out ahead against a SubSeed set, and I've already pointed out that Regice can't actually do anything to support a team beyond scaring off Shaymin. Or, Shaymin can simply run EOM's Swords Dance set and have a whole different set of counters entirely.

So what, right? Shaymin can't be directly countered by much, if anything, but that by itself isn't enough to qualify it for BL. If it was, Lucario and Salamence would be uber. The difference here is that Shaymin has 100/100/100 defenses which are great without any EV investment, some useful resistances (Water, Ground, and to a degree, Electric), a 50% recovery move, and Natural Cure. 328 (327 if you're running HP Rock) speed is great in the tier, putting it ahead of most major threats. Unless everything on your team can outspeed and OHKO, good luck breaking Shaymin, as it will generally find a way to utilize its defenses to get back in, recover, and start the whole painful process over again.


Syberia: Borderline Accept, you didn't really effectively tie in the characteristics; but I'll let it slide because I can get hints of your greater point and what you were attempting to get at.
 
I'd like to nominate Honchkrow.

On the basis that a Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort, I would like to nominate Honchkrow for BL under the Offensive Characteristic.


Let's begin with the standard Honchcrow set for UU:

Honchkrow @life orb (EVs: 252 ATK, 252 SPD, 4 HP)
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Super Luck
-Drill Peck
-Superpower
-Night Slash/Pursuit
-Sucker Punch

With this moveset, two of the dominant attack types (Flying and Fighting) are backed up by Honchkrow's powerful 125 base attack. Throwing in Super Luck with Night Slash, as noted in Honchkrow's current analysis, "works wonders... since Honchkrow will have a 25% chance of scoring a critical hit with each attack, and a 43.75% chance of scoring at least one critical hit out of two attacks<if you use Night Slash>." If you opt for Pursuit, you can ruin Pokemon that attempt to switch out, since most sets I've seen run Night Slash and people often don't expect it (I presume that most people prefer the critical rate of Night Slash, but Pursuit certainly does have its uses for fleeing opponents). Adding in the STAB on Night Slash, you have an incredibly dangerous move for Physical tanks that don't resist it, such as Blastoise (normally 3-hit KO'd with max Def and HP, but with the critical chance can be hit for up to 75% of its HP, an easy 2-hit KO). This also applies to Sucker Punch, because even without the critical rate, you can do hefty damage to potential counters attempting a revenge kill (even if it means sacrificing Honchkrow in the process).

Some calculations I did (Life Orb is assumed) against common physical tanks (defensive sets will be used, often 252 HP/252 DEF):

Bold Blastoise (252/252): Night Slash does 34% on average, normally a 4-hit KO...but with that near 1/2 chance of a critical becomes an easy 2-Hit KO. Superpower deals 42% on the first strike.

Impish Registeel (252/128): Superpower deals 63% on average with the first strike, then 42% on the second. With a slightly higher damage roll, it's a 2-hit KO. With no reliable recovery, Registeel is in trouble.

Bold Claydol (252/144): Night Slash will 2-hit KO cleanly, shaving off 81% on average.

Bold Clefable (252/152): Superpower deals 97% on average, but a slightly higher damage roll will result in an OHKO.

Bold Shaymin (252/252): Drill Peck will deal 70% on average, then following up with a Sucker Punch will KO by dealing 35% with Stealth Rock in play/a higher damage roll.

Bold Slowbro (212/252): Night Slash 2-hit KOs cleanly, dealing 60% on average (even with a low damage roll, it does 56%)

Bold Spiritomb (252/252): Drill Peck deals on average 44% of Spiritomb's HP, which can result in a 3-4 Hit KO. Spiritomb, however, can only deal back piddly damage with Calm Mind-boosted Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse/HP Fighting. Even including Pain Split to recover back HP/deal damage, Spiritomb is in trouble. However, Spiritomb can threaten with Will-o'-wisp, which was seen on 1/2 Spiritomb throughout April. (If you want to get into theorymon though, Honchkrow can set up a 101 HP Substitute and laugh in Spiritomb's ugly face).

Bold Milotic (148/252): Like Blastoise, Milotic isn't particularly threatened by Night Slash on its own (39% on average)- but, if a critical hit is scored, that spikes up to 78%, a clean 2-Hit KO.

Interesting to note is that of the Pokemon that outspeed Honchkrow/can threaten it with a super-effective attack (Blastoise, Claydol, Shaymin, Milotic) only Blastoise and Milotic can threaten immediately due to their type neutrality (barring a critical hit). Shaymin and Claydol are both knocked out due to Sucker Punch if they attempt to attack it.

That list is (of course) mostly comprised of walls, which was my major reasoning behind nominating Honchkrow for BL. While there are certainly specific "wall breakers" in every metagame, the fact that Honchkrow can decimate the majority of the tier in one to two hits, especially supposed "walls", and can merely switch out/use a highly powered STAB Sucker Punch against faster Pokemon that may have a threatening attack, certainly says to me that he is overpowering for the UU tier as a whole. The only "real" counters I have seen are Regirock (which can survive repeated Superpowers and strike back with a STAB rock move), Milotic (if there are no critical hits), and the previously discussed Arcanine, which uses Intimidate to knock down Honchkrow's Attack stat. But when you bring in other common Pokemon in the UU tier, such as Venusaur, Hitmontop, Ambipom, Porygon 2 and so on- all of which are 2-hit KOd by various attacks and cannot do any real damage with attacks of their own (despite outspeeding in some cases)- you have a major threat that easily destroys the bulk of the Pokemon that make up the UU metagame with little to no effort.

Yoshi King: Borderline Accepted, I would've liked to see you talk a bit more about potential checks. You seem to fail to realize that pure counters are not always necessary for a Pokemon to be deemed acceptable in a metagame.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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Shaymin is a douche, plain and simple. While Grass isn't an especially good offensive type, it's hard not to love it when you're matching it with a brutal base 120 STAB in Seed Flare, an excellent coverage move in Earth Power, and very nice tertiary attack options like HP Ice / Rock and Psychic. Its offensive stats are very nice, with an excellent 100 base Speed and Special Attack, it's damn near impossible to sponge its attacks with anything but Chansey, and even then, Shaymin can run Leech Seed and render Chansey useless.

But that's not all! Its offensive prowess is matched by 100/100/100 defensive stats across the board, and there are plenty of things that it can switch in with ease against. The top-tier Bulky Waters can barely touch it with a Super-Effective Ice Beam, and it sponges Surfs, Earthquakes, and other assorted attacks no sweat. And even if you manage to cripple it through Paralysis or some other status, it can just Natural Cure it away. Furthermore, with its ridiculous switch-generating capability, it can just Rest away all of the damage it's taken, undoing all your work to damage it.

Shaymin fits the offensive criteria simply because not only will it smash your face in and crush your dreams, but with Rest, Synthesis, and Leech Seed, it'll keep coming to do it over and over again.

Honchkrow is the gold standard for physical beatdown deliverance right now. Boasting an incredible 125 attack with STAB Sucker Punch, Drill Peck, and Night Slash, with Superpower for perfect coverage, there's basically nothing that Honchkrow doesn't threaten. The only decent things that can take its attacks are Blastoise, Milotic, and Regirock, and even then, there's a huge chance that Super Luck will just throw that out the window. Night Slash has a disgusting 25% Critical Hit rate with Super Luck and its own natural +crit, and the rest have very comfortable 12.5% crit rates ready to mess up any potential counter.

Defensively, it's not great, but it's a lot better than a number of things. 100/51/51 defenses are certainly on the higher end of "frail" sweepers, and 71 Speed is enough to comfortably outspeed a number of walls. Faster opponents are easily dispatched with a brutal STAB Sucker Punch. The impossibility of countering Honchkrow combined with its brutal power means that it can just power straight through teams with ease.

Yanmega is also horrendous. It runs so many sets that just run straight through teams. Simple LO Speed Boost Yanmega can rip shit up with its awesome power and insane speed, along with the coverage of Bug Buzz / Psychic / Air Slash / Hidden Power Ground. It can also Hypnosis its counters, which is nice. In addition, all of its counters fall to a superpowered Reversal, which is easy to pull off with its speed and ability to throw up Substitutes. However, all of this pales in comparison to one set in particular.

Specs Tinted Lens Bug Buzz is so impossibly powerful that outside of Chansey, there's nothing that can stand against its might. If you're playing a slow team, you're going to lose one or two mons to this force. Tinted Lens ensures that the things that would normally counter you fall hard to a Bug Buzz that they no longer resist. Outside of Regice and Chansey, there's not a chance for most teams to defend against this.

It's also not frail at all. 86/86 physical defenses are better than Starmie, which is usually touted as being rather defensive, and while 56 Special Defense is nothing special, it can take hits with the best of them and respond with force. The only thing stopping Yanmega from completely destroying the tier is Stealth Rock, but as many have shown, Stealth Rock isn't exactly the easiest thing to set up in the tier.




Seven Deadly Sins: Borderline Accept. I would've liked to see you tie in the actual characteristics and how it fit into the facts you were bringing up. I'm accepting them because I could "read between the lines" and see what you were getting at and hinting towards the characteristics.
 
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