UU Pokemon of the Week

[pokemonisfun]

I don't like wimpy defensive Roserade too much, considering Froslass is so much better at guaranteeing Spikes which when paired along with a couple of attackers like CB Crobat and Scarf Darmanitan has to be the most brainless strategy ever. Also if you look at Roserade's stats its not its defenses that are good (they are pretty mediocre, and its absolutely frail physically) but its offenses.

So a Choice Specs sets can work???
Modest/Timid
252 spa/252spe
~Leaf Storm
~Sludge Bomb
~HP Fire
~filler status/support move maybe??

Modest nature gives you plenty of power using Leaf Storm its stronger than Timid Choice Specs Latios' Draco Meteor and can do 51.07 - 60.23% to standard Snorlax which is almost always a 2hko if Snorlax is coming in below 85% (say it had to eat a fire blast from Chandelure). Leaf Storm also OHKO's Chandelure and Darmanitan after SR so no prediction is truly needed to beat them. Umbreon faces a 2hko with a little bit of hazard damage or you can just use Sludge Bomb, if it gets a poison on the first turn you can always win the match up if it tried to switch in with SR up. P2 is mauled by two consecutive STAB attacks so it can't switch in either, the best thing is that these Pokemon will generally try to counter you so you can pretty easily lure them out. HP Fire is will take out Bronzong in two hits so you can just lead with Roserade and hurt him badly as he sets up SR. You are now free to spam powerful attackers like Sharpedo and Flygon without worry of Bronzong walling you, even if he switches out. Xatu that try to bounce back hazards? They get OHKO'd lol unless they are specially defensive in which they take so much damage they won't be able to stop you from setting up hazards effectively later (for instance just use Gyro Ball again later with Zong as Xatu tries to bounce back SR).

You think bulky attackers can take a hit and KO back? Zapdos, Raikou, Kingdra, Cofagrigus, Heracross are all OHKOd, most of these KOs don't even need hazards. Noting really walls this so its not hard to spam Leaf Storm all the time, the main problem is the lack of speed. However since you outspeed everything that is defensive its easy to come in on something like a bulky water and just start attacking.

I've only used this set a few times but I find it useful and a refreshing alternative to obnoxiously setting up hazards.

 

[TPO3]

Isn't that just a more frail and slower Shaymin? I feel if you want an offensive mon to hit through bulky attackers, Shaymin would be a better option, as it has 100/100/100 defenses as well as speed. Shaymin's STAB attack also doesn't harshly drop its special attack, and actually has a 40% chance to nuke the opponents Special Defense, which means even Zapdos isn't a safe switch-in. Shaymin also has superior coverage move options in Earth Power and Air Slash as opposed to HP Fire and Sludge Bomb.

Now I'm not calling your Roserade bad or anything, I'm just wondering why it's better than Specs Shaymin. or Life Orb Shaymin for that matter.

Also, Rest would be a viable option for the last slot thanks to natural cure, although I think either Sleep Powder or Stun Spore would be better, because that's all I can see that differentiates Roserade from Shaymin.

 

[ss234]

Holy cow-Roserade Leaf Storm stronger than Latios's Draco Meteor? That set is excellent Hilarious. 2HKOing Snorlax with a neutral move after a tiny bit of damage...is just ridiculous.

I think the main reason you would use specs Roserade, or LO Roserade is because of the surprise factor, better sp.att stat, and Poison STAB. Shaymin is very good I'll give you that, but Roserade is an incredibly powerful special attacker, which many people forget. HP Fire / Leaf Storm / Sludge Bomb is pretty damn good coverage frankly-hitting the whole metagame for at least neutral damage. Leaf Storm 1HKO's Heracross by the way-and Zapdos. Shaymin has no chance to do that unless it runs Air Slash, and manages to predict a Heracross switch-in. Roserade does it by spamming it's STAB move.

 

[pokemonisfun]

There a couple reasons why this is better than Shaymin in my opinion, all of which Silvershadow touched on. Two consecutive Leaf Storms are actually stronger than two consecutive Seed Flares (unless a one of them gets a drop) because the higher base power and Roserade's extra 25 special attack points. In fact Roserade's Leaf Storm will outdamage a Modest Specs Chandelure's Fire Blast - thats just scary. However the extra damage output is usually insignificant (doing 155% instead of 150%!!!) so the main reason I used Roserade was the Poison STAB.

Poison STAB is not as bad as some people would have you think, paired with Grass it hits basically everything but steel types (which really hate eating HP Fire or repeated Leaf Storms) for neutral damage while having an extremely helpful 30% chance to poison. With the Poison chance Umbreon won't get a chance to beat you, Snorlax is more likely to be KO'd in two hits, Togekiss is even more dead. Just the fact that its an extra STAB lets you deal significant damage to things that resist Leaf Storm - for instance KO'd Shaymin and OHKOing offensive Roserade.

Earth Power and Air Slash are worse coverage moves than HP Fire and Sludge Bomb because Roserade gets STAB on Sludge Bomb. Essentially nothing but Snorlax can avoid a 2hko from Roserade if it uses just SR while things like Escalavier and Zapdos and Togekiss can switch in and force out Shaymin while Shaymin still won't beat Snorlax. Roserade probably has lower super effective coverage but its not like she really needs it, Leaf Storm just blasts things so hard even relatively bulky resists, Bisharp, Cobalion, heracross, Xatu, Victini will not be able to switch in with hazards up. Heracross and Zapdos are almost OHKOd too.

Surprise is probably one of the most important features about this. Sableye wants to stay in to taunt you? Lol bye! Bisharp thinks it can get a free sub? Nope HP Fire will be a KO. Raikou is looking to set up on you? Just Sludge Bomb away and it will never be able to keep a sub up (or probably win the match up). P2 thinks its a counter to you right? Well watch as it takes in 110% worth of damage over two turns of Leaf Storm.

The last slot for me didn't matter too much, I felt it was better to just destroy my opponent rather than sleep it but I think Sleep Powder might be the best option still if you don't know whats coming it.

 

[ss234]

Hilarious-those calcs are seriously impressive! I definitely have to try that set out soon. 1HKO'ing Bisharp, 2HKOing Porygon2, Togekiss dies as well...brutal. Just brutal.

I'm also impressed with all the praise for Ambipom. I haven't met anyone good using it though, so I'm not overly impressed. All it does is seem to give my Durant a free turn of set-up lol. U-turn is definitely not the way to go, and Fake Out is a very strong priority move-it has 90BP after STAB and Technician, so stronger than Arcanine's ExtremeSpeed. However, for the most part, I prefer Cincinno. Still 2HKO's Slowbro with Bullet Seed after rocks, and is a possible 1HKO on Rhyperior after rocks(so after a Tail Slap, Rhyperior will die). Also to take out Slowbro with Ambipom, you need all 5 of your teammates to be alive. Cincinno doesn't get a very powerful Fake Out though...

 

[meddle]

Specs Roserade is a beast for sure. I've been using it now over the Life Orb/Rest set I posted before and I won't be looking back. Seriously, nothing can switch in to it. This thing does WORK.

The only thing that gives it trouble I've found is Crobat rearing its head, and that's only because it's faster and resists Roserade's STABs (still takes a lot from SB/Hp Fire, that said). No other UU Pokemon outspeeds it and resists its STAB combination except for Cobalion who has subpar SpDef. So yeah, it pretty much has to be revenged to be killed.

 

[mrb]

I think I'll try out Specs Roserade, but how does it compare to Specs Rotom-C? One of the biggest advantages that Rotom-C has over Roserade is the electric STAB, meaning it can Volt Switch to keep momentum instead of being setup fodder after having to go for Leaf Storm.

But, the natural cure and extra speed and power seem too good not to try out. What's everyone running in the last slot? Sleep Powder or maybe Giga Drain?

 

[ss234]

Roserade has a much better special attack, and a poison STAB. It can't take on Crobat nearly as well as Rotom-C though. Roserade also gets a slightly higher speed stat, if that matters much. Roserade can 2HKO Snorlax with a bit of prior damage too-which Rotom can't hope to do. Roserade certainly isn't set-up fodder after the Leaf Storm, as it still hit's pretty hard. Electric / Grass STAB's aren't actually as good as Poison / Grass too. But, Volt Switch is a great momentum-based move.

 

[Mazz]

Lots of discussion involving Roserade. I like to see that! Here's Week 3:

Week #3 - Chandelure and Cobalion

Chandelure
Type: Fire / Ghost
Base Stats: 60 / 55 / 90 / 145 / 90 / 80
Ability: Flash Fire / Flame Body / Shadow Tag

Cobalion
Type: Steel / Fighting
Base Stats: 91 / 90 / 129 / 90 / 72 / 108
Ability: Justified​

The third UU POTW instalment now up! Discuss sets, roles in the metagame, counters, teammates, etc. Any and all aspects of the Pokemon are up for discussion.

 

[silenced]

I don't have a lot to say in regards to chandelure, other than a small bit of theorymon in that I feel it should be using substitute and maybe pain split to avoid pursuit traps, rather than getting locked into a bad move with a choice item, or revenged killed by pursuiting. Choice items also seem to compound a SR weakness, and this is only made worse if the opponent has P2 or snorlax. (Though then again substitute doesn't help this...eh i give up here)

Cobalion on the other hand...Well I've used Cobalion quite a bit ever since I finally discovered PS. While I haven't been playing for very long, I have really liked cobalion as a pokemon due to it being able to act as a fast physically defensive tank, able to participate in volt-turn cores, a fast SR, and some good support options or sweeping. The typing is fantastic taking pittance from SR and all the other great resists/immunities steel gets.

I used to use cobalion as a hard hitting supporter with thunder-wave on a semi-stall team but lately I've been using this set from the OU creative moveset thread http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3470918

Cobalion @ Expert Belt
EVs: 28 Atk / 230 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Close Combat
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Taunt

Went with SR for the last slot since I needed a setter of it for my latest team. I have the EV's modified somewhat since I'm not interested in the speed tie with other cobalion (so removed 20 EV from speed and placed it into atk and spa). I like the ability to hit from both sides of its attack and hit rather hard while also getting rocks up quickly. Might work better with HP grass in UU as swapping swampert and rhyperior into it to stop volt-turn antics will back-fire for the opponent heavily that way, though the coverage and pseudo bolt-beam seems more tempting to me at present, even if there are less ideal targets for HP ice (though nailing non-scarf flygons and gligar is rather nice...)

Also the whole expert belt bluffing can work here I suppose, if you have another attack over SR in the last slot. Sometimes I notice my opponent is rather confused as to what the item is when they don't see lefties recovery or when SR goes up, so I guess it can work here too.

I've never liked the sword dance set. It's probably just me playing poorly, but my subs always get broken upon attempting to start the sweep, and I've not been a player who looks for a set-up sweeper in a pokemon anyway, so its rather wasted upon me. I've not tried a CM set but given the choice is focus miss or HP fighting as fighting STAB, I'll pass on that regardless.

But yeah, in short, I really like cobalion's versatility and ability to take hits on the physical side when needed.

 

[Forsety]

Chandelure

At a Glance: A ghost with a unique dual typing, multiple immunities and resists, highly underrated good defenses, wide movepool and stupidly high overinflated special attack.

Common Sets: Ultimately it's his Specs set which is where it shines the most and is currently it's most common set. The mistake most often make when EV'ing Chandelure is to put everything into speed and s.atk. The right way to do it is actually to go with the minimal speed it needs and return the rest back into HP. 90/90 defenses actually lets the ghost survive some unexpected attacks. It is not uncommon however to also see some Scarf and Subsplit sets as well which were originally the standards.

Why is it used: It is best used to supplement offensive and balanced teams as it's presence alone can render stall and balanced teams ineffective and Rapid Spinner switch ins equate to a free kill for it. Choice Specs Chandelure is so powerful it actually makes trying to use it for anything other than wallbreaking stupid. There is no real strategy to Speclure other than Fire Blast away and occasionally throw out a Shadowball or HP Fighting when you smell a possible check. It's typing too lends it to very easy switch ins on some of the top mons in the UU tier.

Counters/Checks: Speclure only has two true counters being the fairly infrequent Trace Porygon2 and Houndoom. Almost all it's other defensive checks such as Snorlax can be rendered ineffective with some basic hazards. Therefore the only effective way to eliminate it is with a faster revenge kill, Pursuit traps are often risky as Lure is perfectly capable of surviving a hit and killing even with a resisted hit. For Scarf and other regular variations of Lure they can be eliminated more easily due to the significant drop in power.

Summary:
It's raw power can often render switching ineffective and turns Rapid Spinners into a 100% liability. If you see a Chand in any form you should prepare to eliminate it asap or risk it getting easy kills.



Cobalion

At a Glance: The leader of the legendary musketeers is also possibly the seemingly least effective of the group. However a solid typing, stats and unique movepool gives it something to work with.

Common Sets: The most common set you'll encounter is a physical Sub boosting set with two attacks and occasionally with a Life Orb. Rarely you may also encounter special CM/Work Up variations and as of BW2's updates the odd pivot support Cobalion.

Why is it used: Steel/Fighting is a excellent typing defensively and offensively, coupled with some decent bulk and high speed gives it multiple defensive and offensive options. Sub set is the favourite due to the ease of switching it in, it's tendency to force switches and decent speed means it can keep it's sub intact.

Equal offenses and multiple buff moves mean it can occasionally go special. However with a higher boosting physical buff and ability which takes advantage of a 4x resist for more offense this is glanced over. It can also lend itself well to a support set with it's effective utility moves such as T-Wave, Stealth Rock, Taunt, Roar, Volt Switch and Sacred Sword's unique ability to bypass defensive buffs.

Counters/Checks:
Most bulky waters and ghosts and anything defensive in general like Gligar tend to be able to sponge it's attacks and break it. 90/90 offense do betray Cobalion offensively as it'll often miss some major KO's without LO. His speed also whilst good put's him slower than most fast sweepers which further impacts his offense having to run full speed.

Summary:
Cobalion is balance in a nutshell, statwise he is balanced and does a few things well but doesn't necessarily excel in them. He is best utilized as a glue for balanced teams according to what you need as there are higher impact sweepers in UU for it to be put on any old team.

 

[destinyunknown]

Cobalion popularity (and niche) has definitely been affected by the banning of sand, as one of his main selling points was being a fast, offensive check to Stoutland. The arrival of a new fast fighting-type like Mienshao have also reduced it's usage. However, Cobalion isn't bad by any means, and it's still a pretty good sweeper on balanced and bulky offense teams and, unlike other UU Fighting types, it isn't straight up beaten by Crobat and can also hold its own against Cofagrigus thanks to STAB Iron Head. Another good thing about Cobalion is its ability to check troublesome pokemon for offensive teams like Kingdra or Bisharp. All in all, while Cobalion isn't a pokemon that you would slap on any team, it definitely has a niche and is a force to be reckoned in the current metagame.

As for Chandelure, we all know what it does. It has arguably become less effective than it was 2-3 rounds ago due to the increasingly faster paced metagame UU has become in BW2, which hinders Chandelure performance. However, Chandelure is still a big threat on the metagame whose presence can't be ignored, and even if its mediocre speed can let it down sometimes, Chandelure is damn scary if it gets a free sub, and it's immediately threatening, unlike its ''cousin'' Cofagrigus. Despite his flaws, Chandelure can still act as an offensive spinblocker and Heracross check, and isn't just threatening to defensive teams, as it can also put a lot of pressure on offensive teams when holding a Choice Scarf.

 

[Wookie (Not the Real One)]

My first post, let me figure out this format as I go along.

Chandelure: Chandelure is one of the strongest overall Pokemon in the UU tier. With it's decent defenses and monstrous offensive power, it can really tear holes in a team to allow a sweeper to clean up the pieces. Pokemon that are outsped (80 base speed) and are weak to one of Chandy's STAB's are completely wiped out. If Chandelure gets up a Substitute, it will blast holes into your team. It's teammates usually are Pokemon which love the damage support so that they can clean up. Another plus is that with it's decent defenses and Ghost typing, it can act as an offensive spinblocker. Chandelure is a massive threat every team has to prepare for or else they will get utterly annihalated.

Cobalion: Cobalion is a decent offensive and defensive pokemon. Defensively, it has Steel/Fighting, 90/129/90 Defenses, Stealth Rock, Volt Switch, Taunt, Thunder Wave, etc. It walls many threats, resisting many common attacking types with it's unique dual typing. It can take unSTAB or resisted physical hits like they're nothing, and retaliate by setting up or T-Waving. Offensively, It has the bulk and STAB to set up and outrun and 1HKO or 2HKO a good bit of the tier. It can even run an effective CM set, though it takes longer to set up and deal damage to the opposition. Overall, Cobalion is a Pokemon that has a good amount of roles and a varied movepool which make it unpredictable and dangerous. I will test Cobalion more as the week goes on.

Please excuse me if I'm not supposed to post in this section, I don't know the forums all too well.

 

[BlankZero]

Chandelure

Common Sets: Ultimately it's his Specs set which is where it shines the most and is currently it's most common set. The mistake most often make when EV'ing Chandelure is to put everything into speed and s.atk. The right way to do it is actually to go with the minimal speed it needs and return the rest back into HP.

Just a couple things here (Emphasis mine.)

I don't see max Spe/SpA to be a bad thing really. Yes, it becomes a one trick pony, but isn't that what a Specs set is all about? You get one move til you swap, why not blast something as hard and fast as possible?

I actually run my SpecsChandy with Timid Nature over Modest, mostly because I see a bigger difference in the Spe (Low 200>high 200, approaching 300) versus SpA+ (around 380ish>420ish) and with the Specs, it's just a monster. I've gotten OHKO on a Slowbro after rocks with it on the switch.

Also, you say "minimal speed it needs", but you don't elaborate at all. What min speed? against what? Other Chandy that will be running Specs or even Scarf?

 

[Ace Emerald]

My first post, let me figure out this format as I go along.

Chandelure: Chandelure is one of the strongest overall Pokemon in the UU tier. With it's decent defenses and monstrous offensive power, it can really tear holes in a team to allow a sweeper to clean up the pieces. Pokemon that are outsped (80 base speed) and are weak to one of Chandy's STAB's are completely wiped out. If Chandelure gets up a Substitute, it will blast holes into your team. It's teammates usually are Pokemon which love the damage support so that they can clean up. Another plus is that with it's decent defenses and Ghost typing, it can act as an offensive spinblocker. Chandelure is a massive threat every team has to prepare for or else they will get utterly annihalated.

Cobalion: Cobalion is a decent offensive and defensive pokemon. Defensively, it has Steel/Fighting, 90/129/90 Defenses, Stealth Rock, Volt Switch, Taunt, Thunder Wave, etc. It walls many threats, resisting many common attacking types with it's unique dual typing. It can take unSTAB or resisted physical hits like they're nothing, and retaliate by setting up or T-Waving. Offensively, It has the bulk and STAB to set up and outrun and 1HKO or 2HKO a good bit of the tier. It can even run an effective CM set, though it takes longer to set up and deal damage to the opposition. Overall, Cobalion is a Pokemon that has a good amount of roles and a varied movepool which make it unpredictable and dangerous. I will test Cobalion more as the week goes on.

Please excuse me if I'm not supposed to post in this section, I don't know the forums all too well.

Good first post, welcome to Smogon! Unfortunately, Cobalion's physical bulky is very deceptive. Fire, Ground, and Fighting are all common physical attacks in UU, and it really ruins his bulk. He can still get into battle and set up, but walling is a tall order, especially with no recovery. However, with those great defensive stats and good resistances (including Stealth Rocks), as well as ok attacking stats with access to high powered STABS, boosting moves, and great Speed, Cobalion is a great offensive defensive cross.

I have been meaning to test Life Orb Chandelure a while (that and LO Roserade) because it got some serious hype by great players in the megathread. I can attest to Choice Scarf however. The sheer power and speed is great. Its still slower than most anything with a speed boost, including other Scarfers, which sometimes makes it a frustrating use of the niche, but its power is so great. And now it has Trick, so not even Snorlax and Porygon are safe switches.

 

[Hakmeister]

I will only talk about Cobalion, since I have not used Chandelure enough to form a good opinion on it.

Cobalion is a great Pokémon to use, which is not reflected in the usage stats. Good typing offensively, and defensively it's good as well. Weaknesses to the common Ground, Fire and Fighting types does hurt, but it still has enough resistances to come in on. Good stats (very nice Defense stat, although a little bit of a letdown due to physical Fighting and Ground moves), covering both sides of the spectrum. Its attacking stats are somewhat less stellar though; 90/90 is good, but nothing spectacular.

Still, these stats have a saving grace in the form of the moves Cobalion learns. It has Close Combat and Iron Head (on the physical side) and Focus Blast and Flash Cannon (on the special side) for STAB moves, all of which are great moves. Furthermore, it can learn Stone Edge and X-Scissor for coverage. For support, it can learn a plethora of moves, including Taunt, Thunder Wave, Toxic and Stealth Rock. Special mention goes to Metal Burst, the ultimate revenge move.

I tend to use a Choice Band set with Cobalion. It has enough chances to get in the fight with its resistances, but it is easily forced out by anything that has a Fire, Ground or Fighting move. It has passable Speed, and its Defenses are almost guaranteed to make it survive at least one attack.

Cobalion @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Volt Switch

Try to switch in on a Dark-type move; easily accomplished if you use a Ghost Pokémon and switch to Cobalion. With +2 Attack right from the start, it hits with 604 Attack (if you calculations are correct); enough to dent everything, even with a neutral hit.

 

[Wookie (Not the Real One)]

Good first post, welcome to Smogon! Unfortunately, Cobalion's physical bulky is very deceptive. Fire, Ground, and Fighting are all common physical attacks in UU, and it really ruins his bulk. He can still get into battle and set up, but walling is a tall order, especially with no recovery. However, with those great defensive stats and good resistances (including Stealth Rocks), as well as ok attacking stats with access to high powered STABS, boosting moves, and great Speed, Cobalion is a great offensive defensive cross.

I have been meaning to test Life Orb Chandelure a while (that and LO Roserade) because it got some serious hype by great players in the megathread. I can attest to Choice Scarf however. The sheer power and speed is great. Its still slower than most anything with a speed boost, including other Scarfers, which sometimes makes it a frustrating use of the niche, but its power is so great. And now it has Trick, so not even Snorlax and Porygon are safe switches.

Thank you for the complement :). Anyway, Once PS! recovers I will further test Cobalion's defensive capabilities, maybe provide a few calcs.

 

[Mazz]

Sorry about this update being late- most of you know what happened. Anywho;

Week #4 - Mew, Cofagrigus, and Tornadus

Mew
Type: Psychic
Base Stats: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100
Ability: Synchronize

Cofagrigus
Type: Ghost
Base Stats: 58 / 50 / 145 / 95 / 105 / 30
Ability: Mummy

Tornadus
Type: Flying
Base Stats: 79 / 115 / 70 / 125 / 80 / 111
Ability: Prankster / Defiant​

Movesets, affect on the metagame, yadayadayada, you guys know the drill. Discuss!

 

[Mazz]

Looks like this has died off. If there comes to be an interest sometime down the road, I'll post up a new one. Closing this.