UU Simple Questions Thread

Is haxorus good in this meta it seems mediocre and outclassed?
As a dragon dancer it is outclassed by salamence. DD mence has a much better speed tier and is much harder to play around which gives it tons more opportunities to set up as opposed to haxorus.

Hax isn't horrible though. It can have some use on balls to the walls HO teams. I've found better use out of it with just slapping a life orb on it and just smashing away at teams with swords dance in the back in case you come across a really fat team on the ladder. You can also use a life orb set on a build that is focused around tailwind support. It's pretty difficult to pull off but it can work on occasion.
 

Hogg

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There is one niche it has over Mence as a DDer: it can actually tank an Ice Shard from Mamoswine. I still mostly think Wanka is right, and Salamence is going to be the better option on the vast majority of teams thanks to all the reasons he mentioned, but not being stopped by Mamoswine is nothing to sneeze at. It can definitely work on the right team.
 
I've given my thoughts in the PS room multiple times regarding Haxorus and they remain the same. Maybe, actually, in Zam meta it is a bit worse, because one of the selling points for the dragons is being able to setup on neutral hits for the sweep. While Mence can take an LO Psychic, Haxorus is a roll unfortunately. But while Hogg hits on one of Hax's main selling points, it's not really all of them, and there are a few crucial differences that I find make Haxorus a "different" and sometimes better choice over Salamence.

I've used both extensively, hit something like top 5 on the ladder with an outrageously offensive Haxorus team and have had some of the most success in UU using a Mence based offense team, so I do think I'm probably one of the more practiced users of both DDers to be speaking about it.

Niches Haxorus has over Mence:
  • Can take an ice shard - this one is really important. Salamence essentially is not allowed to sweep until you have removed Mamoswine / Abomasnow. That is a MAJOR issue because you have to play super aggressively in order to make your foe actually keep them in to take hits. While, on one hand, this is nice (something like NP Nape can get a +2 while forcing out Mamoswine because it's needed to ensure safety against Mence), it's often really frustrating because the opportunities to DD don't come up super often.
  • 100% accurate fairy coverage move - Missing iron tail fucking sucks, but it is necessary on a DD mence set
  • Higher attack stat in combo with running adamant, you miss out on some annoying things speed-wise doing so but it's not 100% terrible, and adamant means you can run dragon claw, so you aren't forced into those weird situations where you can't actually sweep because there's still a fairy, but you need to outrage something (say +1/+1 Mence vs 50% Zapdos, you can't kill with Iron Tail but you can't outrage because there's a florges in the back)
    • Non-outrage sets have the added benefit of being able to run something other than lum, such as mental herb or life orb or a resist berry.
  • More tenuous, but still important to me is Mold Breaker. There was a time when people were running Shedinja / Quagsire on stall a decent amount. Nothing in the world is more frustrating than being unable to break either of those with a fucking Salamence, Mold Breaker makes it a nonissue. Another moderately popular thing this helps against is Rotom-H, which you can EQ, whereas Mence has to outrage again.
  • Not weak to SR
  • Super super niche but there are a few times when I've enjoyed taking poison from tspikes to setup on something like CroCune, because the lum on Mence is sometimes popped t1 and you have to cross your fingers and pray that you survive another few scalds while you boost
Of course, Salamence has pretty great areas over Haxorus, most notably it's speed tier, which lets it beat all but some common scarfers after a single DD (notably Hydrei). Most in our community love Intim as an ability, I've always been partial to Moxie just because it really plays on that "one free turn" idea, where if a Mence gets a single DD turn it can spiral out of control because you can't sacrifice to it as easily to revenge with a bulky wall.

Point being I think they're different enough, really, despite both being DD Dragons. Not really an apples to oranges comparison, but certainly there are enough merits to Haxorus to keep using it over Mence, though it's harder to fit on teams. People just outright saying "oh it's outclassed by Mence" aren't really considering all the applications, and there are definitely a lot of offense teams that could potentially prefer Haxorus over Salamence. There are also stallbreaking sets which utilize Jolly LO SD and potentially taunt, none of which I use very often so my arguments are mainly confined to the DD sets differences btwn them.
 
How viable is ninjask as a sub+spe passer in uu. I know its 4x rocks weakness is an issue but so far (low ladder still)ive had success using it as a lead to pass spe to slower mons as well as a few mons that outspeed alot at +2. I was wondering if something passes speed better in uu.
 

rs

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How viable is ninjask as a sub+spe passer in uu. I know its 4x rocks weakness is an issue but so far (low ladder still)ive had success using it as a lead to pass spe to slower mons as well as a few mons that outspeed alot at +2. I was wondering if something passes speed better in uu.
I would say Agility Baton Pass Zapdos is far better due to its typing and all around natural bulk. It's fun to pair it with something like Hoopa, PorygonZ/Exploud, or Mega Swampert and just fire off as many nukes as possible. I'd say the most relevant for getting a pass is probably Hoopa though, there's not really much that can stop a LO +2 Spe Hoopa besides things like Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak

Edit @ below:

Zapdos @ Leftovers / Lagging Tail
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 96 SpD / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute / Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Agility
- Baton Pass

Lagging tail can be used to get the slow baton pass off to bring teammates in safely :]
 
Last edited:
I would say Agility Baton Pass Zapdos is far better due to its typing and all around natural bulk. It's fun to pair it with something like Hoopa, PorygonZ/Exploud, or Mega Swampert and just fire off as many nukes as possible. I'd say the most relevant for getting a pass is probably Hoopa though, there's not really much that can stop a LO +2 Spe Hoopa besides things like Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak
What would a good set be for zap to pass with on HO
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
What does defensive Gyara offer that Swampert doesn't it just seems like a fighting resist but with trade off of being weak to Steal Rocks and rock in general and have a more exploitable weakness (TBolt)
 

Threw

cohiba
Now that Type Cores is ending and Next Best Thing is at least temporarily on hold, will there be more projects that step up in their places? I always thought we were kinda short on competitions anyway, but now with these two gone we'll only have IC (and Dark Horse, but I don't really count that because it's super long-term), which would suck :(
 

rs

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Now that Type Cores is ending and Next Best Thing is at least temporarily on hold, will there be more projects that step up in their places? I always thought we were kinda short on competitions anyway, but now with these two gone we'll only have IC (and Dark Horse, but I don't really count that because it's super long-term), which would suck :(
Matchmaking will be back up after NV's tour and its one of the more long-term threads that has been going on for awhile (+ it'll be almost impossible to end since we keep getting new mons and NV hasn't used much anyway) so we'll have 3 when it's back up. As for wanting more "weekly" threads besides those 3, I'm sure there'll be some new ones in the future, they just need to go through the approval process and what-not, which can take some time
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Now that Type Cores is ending and Next Best Thing is at least temporarily on hold, will there be more projects that step up in their places? I always thought we were kinda short on competitions anyway, but now with these two gone we'll only have IC (and Dark Horse, but I don't really count that because it's super long-term), which would suck :(
There will probably be more threads on the way after the Type Cores has ended (I've been requesting a Lure That Threat and Old Gens Hub thread lately), but as Shiba said, the approval process can take quite long.
 

Nightingales

// FLY HIGH, STRIKE HARD
Wouldn't mind having a victim of the week thread, either. Maybe a big thread where we can suggest community things like Iron Chef or Matchmaking could be useful?
 

Threw

cohiba
Wouldn't mind having a victim of the week thread, either. Maybe a big thread where we can suggest community things like Iron Chef or Matchmaking could be useful?
Tbh I don't really think that's worth dedicating an entire thread to. There aren't that many ideas to go around, and if you really want a moderator/tier leader's opinion on an idea, I guess you can just hit them up on PS! or something

Or, like those two above, go ahead with the approval process
 

nv

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Now that Type Cores is ending and Next Best Thing is at least temporarily on hold, will there be more projects that step up in their places? I always thought we were kinda short on competitions anyway, but now with these two gone we'll only have IC (and Dark Horse, but I don't really count that because it's super long-term), which would suck :(
Matchmaking will be back up after NV's tour and its one of the more long-term threads that has been going on for awhile (+ it'll be almost impossible to end since we keep getting new mons and NV hasn't used much anyway) so we'll have 3 when it's back up. As for wanting more "weekly" threads besides those 3, I'm sure there'll be some new ones in the future, they just need to go through the approval process and what-not, which can take some time
While we have a limited amount of "weekly projects", they are most of the time really active and I know for a fact that the approval process is "a bitch" which makes it hard to get a thread approved. But I also feel that it makes the ones that do get approved all the more valuable. While Type Cores is ending, the current threads are still carrying on with the most activity I see for a "project" thread.

Plus I am currently proposing an idea I want to bring to UnderUsed, but I have only gotten one response to it so far. (Going to be more vigilant about it though.)
 
Is VoltTurn and Wish-Pass a viable strategy to run in UU right now and do they work together on the same team? If so, what are some good Pokemon to run in a team around that?
I think I'm good with understanding defensive cores in this strategy, but I'm not sure what offensive Pokemon I would want to pair with a Wish Passer since a lot of them can't take many hits to begin with. Does anyone have any good suggestions?
 
Is VoltTurn and Wish-Pass a viable strategy to run in UU right now and do they work together on the same team? If so, what are some good Pokemon to run in a team around that?
I think I'm good with understanding defensive cores in this strategy, but I'm not sure what offensive Pokemon I would want to pair with a Wish Passer since a lot of them can't take many hits to begin with. Does anyone have any good suggestions?
It depends on what you're specifically running.

Say you run a core with U-Turn Whimsicott and Volt Switch Heliolisk. You should not run Wish Pass since it's a more defensive oriented strategy and you should be wanting to maintain offensive pressure rather than healing frail Pokemon on an offensive team.

If you run a core of U-Turn Gligar and Volt Switch Forretress, than yes Wish Pass would be a nice addition as Forretress doesn't have Recovery aside from Leftovers and Gligar wouldn't be more stressed to Roost more often.
 

esche

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The term 'VoltTurn' refers to more of an offensive playstyle while WishPass is a strategy usually found on balanced and defensive builds. This does not prevent you from having a VoltTurnCore alongside WishPass at all though. Many Volt Switch and U-Turn users actually appreciate a Wish because they are often used as pivots and will come in on attacks many times and take additional hazard damage. Crobat comes to my mind first because it offers a bunch of useful resists for common WishPass users like Alomomola and Blissey. Mons that get worn down easily because they lack reliable recovery like Rotom and Whimsicott also appreciate WishSupport. Forretress is another VoltSwitch user that works well with both WishPass and VoltTurnCores because it can control and set up hazards. Finally, you can use more offensive VoltTurn Mons like Darmanitan, Heliolisk or the aforementioned Crobat because they will take recoil from powerful moves like Flare Blitz and Brave Bird or LO damage. You just have to watch out when switchting them into attacks because they are relatively frail.
 
It depends on what you're specifically running.

Say you run a core with U-Turn Whimsicott and Volt Switch Heliolisk. You should not run Wish Pass since it's a more defensive oriented strategy and you should be wanting to maintain offensive pressure rather than healing frail Pokemon on an offensive team.

If you run a core of U-Turn Gligar and Volt Switch Forretress, than yes Wish Pass would be a nice addition as Forretress doesn't have Recovery aside from Leftovers and Gligar wouldn't be more stressed to Roost more often.

The term 'VoltTurn' refers to more of an offensive playstyle while WishPass is a strategy usually found on balanced and defensive builds. This does not prevent you from having a VoltTurnCore alongside WishPass at all though. Many Volt Switch and U-Turn users actually appreciate a Wish because they are often used as pivots and will come in on attacks many times and take additional hazard damage. Crobat comes to my mind first because it offers a bunch of useful resists for common WishPass users like Alomomola and Blissey. Mons that get worn down easily because they lack reliable recovery like Rotom and Whimsicott also appreciate WishSupport. Forretress is another VoltSwitch user that works well with both WishPass and VoltTurnCores because it can control and set up hazards. Finally, you can use more offensive VoltTurn Mons like Darmanitan, Heliolisk or the aforementioned Crobat because they will take recoil from powerful moves like Flare Blitz and Brave Bird or LO damage. You just have to watch out when switchting them into attacks because they are relatively frail.
Thanks for the responses Magic and Esche. It does make sense that they are two very different strategies. I think when I originally made my team I had a balanced playstyle in mind, and the VoltTurns didn't really feel like it gave any edge to a strategy I was trying to make with Umbreon's WishPass. I think moving forward I'm going to focus more on a WishPass Core, probably meaning I would have to cut some of the super frail team members.

I like what you said about Wishing to recoil move users, and I think that's something I will take forward. Also, if I'm trying to construct a balanced WishPass team, what kind of (setup) sweepers should I be looking at specifically, or will any really do with the right supporting roster?
 

esche

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Don't just pick any set up sweeper for your team. Try to identify what your team can handle and pick your set up sweeper from there. For example: If your team can't handle Krookodile well, don't pick a bulky Psychic type unless you want to lure it (Colbur) for a specific reason. If you build your team with a certain idea behind it, it will be much easier for you to actually execute your strategy in battle. On another note, WishPass often offers cleric support as well, so sweepers that despise status (Slowking, Cresselia, Gyarados, Cobalion, ...) can appreciate that.
 

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