Gen 1 Venusaur (UU) [QC 2/2] [GP 2/2] [DONE]

[Volk]

Here he is. I hope you all appreciate just how massive this analysis is. I'm likely going to be taking a break from writing after this one.
This has not been proofread yet so be aware of sudden changes shortly after after the initial post. Cheers!

[OVERVIEW]

For a while, Venusaur was close to obsolete in UU because Victreebel, which was an already fairly uncommon pick, largely outclassed it. However, Victreebel eventually exited the tier for OU, opening a power vacuum Venusaur was happy to occupy. Thanks to this and a few significant metagame shifts, Venusaur has become a permanent resident of RBY UU.

Despite its humble origins, Venusaur is a powerful threat. Sleep is deadly in RBY and Venusaur boasts the second-fastest reliable sleep move in UU, behind only Venomoth. While Venusaur is much slower than tier staples like Tentacruel and Kadabra, its Speed tier is still a cut above several bulky Pokemon, like Hypno and Vaporeon, and happens to be shared with Dragonite. It is in these matchups where Venusaur most often thrives, as it can either use Sleep Powder uncontested or fire off its surprisingly powerful Razor Leaf. Venusaur is a threat that can bully Pokemon with Sleep Powder early-game and continue to exert some offensive pressure once a foe is asleep.

Like Victreebel before it, Venusaur is notably restricted by its typing; while Poison does grant an immunity to Toxic, it isn’t good for much else. It leaves Venusaur quite vulnerable to Psychic from common Pokemon like Hypno, Kadabra, and Electabuzz while making Earthquake deal neutral damage. Combine this with an Ice weakness and you get a Pokemon with numerous troublesome matchups and some difficulty switching in.

[SET]
name: Sleeper
move 1: Razor Leaf
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Toxic

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Razor Leaf will virtually always land a critical hit, so it provides Venusaur with a reliable and powerful STAB move that gives it a key advantage over Tangela. Its base damage is higher than Raichu’s Thunderbolt and even with Tentacruel’s Surf. Razor Leaf will always OHKO Dugtrio and Omastar and deal well over 50% to Water-type Pokemon like Poliwrath and Dewgong. The move will also 2HKO Vaporeon 78.6% of the time, making Venusaur the only Pokemon in UU to do so reliably. Some neutral targets take hefty damage as well, with Kangaskhan and Kadabra dropping to two and three hits, respectively. Additionally, Razor Leaf's critical hits make it a very good move for taking out rare Amnesia users like Poliwrath and Golduck. Because Venusaur was unfortunately denied access to Stun Spore, it makes use of Body Slam to try to spread paralysis. This is helpful against common switch-ins like Dragonite, Tentacruel, Articuno, and Kadabra. The move is also Venusaur’s best option for hitting some targets that resist Razor Leaf. Toxic reliably prevents Dragonite from setting up Agility + Wrap. It also happens to be Venusaur’s best move against Tangela, notably shutting down variants that run Bind. Other, less common users of partial-trapping moves, like Pinsir and Moltres, also prefer to avoid Toxic, though they are more capable of fighting off Venusaur in general.

Sleep Powder is Venusaur’s most significant move. Working Venusaur into battle against slower foes so it can use Sleep Powder is essential to using it effectively. Most often, Venusaur will try to somehow get in against Hypno. Most simply, Venusaur can just switch in whenever the opponent is likely to switch in a healthy Hypno. Special attackers, especially Kadabra, are quite good at baiting in Hypno; note that this can be done as early as turn 1 by leading with Kadabra. Venusaur can also come in after Hypno, or really any Pokemon, has used Rest and use Sleep Powder to catch a switch-in or put the Rest user right back to sleep. While exploiting Hypno and resting Pokemon is Venusaur’s main route to success, it isn’t its only one. For example, it can switch well into Dugtrio despite not quite walling it, as it can threaten an OHKO with Razor Leaf in addition to sleep. Venusaur also punishes Substitute Dugtrio exceptionally well, as Sleep Powder breaches the Substitute. Venusaur is also pretty good against Electric-type Pokemon, especially Raichu, but the threat of paralysis makes the matchup a little less desirable. It is important not to paralyze many Pokemon before Venusaur has used Sleep Powder, as many Pokemon can easily wall it once they are paralyzed. Once Venusaur has used Sleep Powder, it will usually will transition right away to using Body Slam to try to paralyze a switch-in. After that, it can serve as an answer to sleeping Water-type Pokemon or an auxiliary check to Dugtrio in the endgame. Venusaur is also fairly common sleep fodder.

Venusaur’s traits make it a good teammate for several key Pokemon in the UU metagame. Leads like Kadabra and Electabuzz that goad Pokemon like Hypno and Dugtrio to switch in work very well with Venusaur, as they allow it to use Sleep Powder early on before paralysis is spread. Articuno is uniquely suited to partner with Venusaur. It appreciates Venusaur’s ability to effortlessly thwart Water-type Pokemon as well as its Sleep Powder, which can make setting up Agility much easier. Articuno, in turn, does well against a lot of Pokemon that can scare or bully Venusaur, like Dragonite, Dodrio, and Tangela. Other wallbreakers and Agility sweepers like Kangaskhan, Persian, Dodrio, and Dragonite appreciate Venusaur for similar reasons.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Venusaur has a few interesting moves available to it, though most are not especially useful. Hyper Beam is arguably its best alternative, being used over Toxic to hit a few targets for extra damage and finish off foes like Hypno a bit earlier. Rather impressively, it does well over 60% to Kadabra. Just note that dropping Toxic leaves Venusaur much more susceptible to partial-trapping.

A Swords Dance set is possible, but it doesn't exactly take advantage of Venusaur's strengths, and other Pokemon like Tentacruel and Pinsir run the move with more consistency.

Leech Seed is a possible alternative to Toxic to deal with partial-trapping while also giving Venusaur some health back; it gives roughly as much as Wrap takes away. The move does have higher accuracy than Toxic, but the effect isn’t permanent, and it deals much less damage. Leech Seed also has the advantage of affecting Tentacruel, though it is unable to hit Tangela. The move can also be used in tandem with Toxic to continuously escalate Leech Seed's drained health, but setting this up in a real match is much easier said than done.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Haunter**: If Venusaur has already used Sleep Powder on something else, Haunter is a pretty big issue. Venusaur’s only option is Razor Leaf, which is 5HKO or worse. Haunter can 3HKO it if it's carrying Psychic or 4HKO with Night Shade.

**Flying-type Pokemon**: Venusaur’s Body Slam isn't particularly strong, so most Flying-type Pokemon can easily scare it away. Dragonite and Articuno take very little damage from any of Venusaur’s moves and can 2HKO with Blizzard, though it is only guaranteed for the latter. Dodrio can set up Agility fairly freely in front of Venusaur, as Drill Peck is a 2HKO and Body Slam can't paralyze it. While rare, Moltres performs almost identically to Articuno against Venusaur.

**Psychic Users**: Kadabra is the scariest foe that can exploit Venusaur's weakness to Psychic, as it outpaces Venusaur and 2HKOes it. Due to the risk of a critical hit, Venusaur will almost always switch out, assuming Kadabra is healthy. Note that Hyper Beam is a legitimate threat to a paralyzed Kadabra, however. Hypno also 2HKOes but is slower, so it only really acts as a check if it is paralyzed or if one of its teammates is already asleep. Electabuzz is very likely to 3HKO Venusaur if it has Psychic, though Razor Leaf is also a 3HKO. Interestingly, the uncommon Venomoth is a premier Venusaur check. It effortlessly shrugs off Razor Leaf, outspeeds, carries Sleep Powder and Stun Spore, and 3HKOes with Psychic.

**Ice-type Moves**: Fortunately for Venusaur, it is faster than most users of Ice-type moves, so it is much less afraid of them than its rival Tangela. Nonetheless, there are a few Pokemon that can outspeed and threaten Venusaur. Tentacruel is the most prominent, as it can use Wrap and score a KO as early as 63.9%. Gyarados doesn't take Razor Leaf very well, but it barely outspeeds and threatens a likely 2HKO with Blizzard. If Venusaur is paralyzed, it becomes a lot more afraid of Pokemon like Vaporeon, Omastar, and especially Dewgong.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Volk, 530877]]
- Quality checked by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [phoopes, 96315]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429], [CyroGyro, 331519]]

 

[Plague von Karma]

Let's get things rolling here!
Overview
It may be worth restructuring this into the typical cut-and-dry "positives and negatives" system. As it stands the Overview kind of tears into the poor toad, I felt like I was viewing the analysis of a D Rank. If I were a newbie, I'd probably pass Venusaur over.

Back in the early days of RBY UU, Victreebel was an uncommon but fairly potent threat. It definitely had a place in the metagame, but it wasn't ever really a staple. However, as time progressed, the metagame shifted and Victreebel exited the tier in favor of OU. This opened up a bit of a power vacuum for a Grass-type Pokemon with Razor Leaf and Sleep Powder, which Venusaur was happy to occupy.

While I understand the idea of providing historical context, I'd turn this down a notch. This analysis is about Venusaur, so it's best not to divert attention to this degree. I'd say note Victreebel as more of an aside. Y'know, like the couple lines about the birds we've done before, that much is fine, yeah?

As with Victreebel, Venusaur struggled a little to get a foothold in the RBY UU metagame. Both are notably restricted by their typing. While the Poison type does grant an immunity to Toxic, it isn’t good for much else. It leaves Venusaur quite vulnerable to Psychic from common Pokemon like Hypno, Kadabra, and Electabuzz while also causing it to take more damage from Earthquake than it otherwise would. Combine this with the Ice weakness from the Grass type and you get a Pokemon with numerous troublesome matchups. Finally, Venusaur was fighting from a point of disadvantage relative even to Victreebel. While Venusaur is a little quicker, Victreebel had access to a few extra useful moves like Stun Spore and Wrap. Venusaur had an uphill battle.

Cut the Victreebel comparisons out and make this solely about Venusaur. Comparisons to OU Pokemon on a competitive perspective are generally discouraged, as it hinges on players knowing both metagames. You almost make it out that Victreebel is in UU with the last few lines, which only makes this worse.

Nonetheless, Venusaur proved to be a powerful threat in the UU metagame. Sleep is often deadly in RBY and Venusaur boasts the second-fastest reliable Sleep move in UU, behind only Venomoth. While Venusaur is much slower than tier staples like Tentacruel and Kadabra, its speed tier is still a cut above several bulky Pokemon, like Hypno and Vaporeon, and happens to be shared with Dragonite. It is in these matchups where Venusaur most often thrives, as it can either use an uncontested Sleep Powder or fire off a surprisingly powerful Razor Leaf. It can be tricky to get Venusaur into battle at times, but very little wants to face it once it has gotten in, especially if there is no protection from Sleep Clause. Venusaur is a threat in the early game that can still pick up some slack once it has done its main job with Sleep Powder.

This is pretty much perfect and what we should be looking for with the negatives paragraph.

If I were to restructure this, I'd do something like this;

Similar to the old days of Victreebel, Venusaur is a powerful threat in the RBY UU metagame. Sleep is often deadly in RBY and Venusaur boasts the second-fastest reliable Sleep move in the tier, behind only Venomoth. While Venusaur is much slower than tier staples like Tentacruel and Kadabra, its Speed Tier is still a cut above several bulky Pokemon, like Hypno and Vaporeon, and happens to be shared with Dragonite. It is in these matchups where Venusaur most often thrives, as it can either use an uncontested Sleep Powder or fire off a surprisingly powerful Razor Leaf. It can be tricky to get Venusaur into battle at times, but very little wants to face it once it has gotten in, especially if there is no protection from Sleep Clause. Venusaur is a threat in the early game that can still pick up some slack once it has done its main job with Sleep Powder.

Venusaur is notably restricted by its typing; while the Poison-type does grant an immunity to Toxic for assisting your Dragonite, it isn’t good for much else. It leaves Venusaur quite vulnerable to Psychic from common Pokemon like Hypno, Kadabra, and Electabuzz, while also causing it to take more damage from Earthquake than it otherwise would. Combine this with the Ice weakness from the Grass-type, and you get a Pokemon with numerous troublesome matchups.

You don't have to directly implement this, though the option is there. I wouldn't want to take away from your writing too much.

Set Details
Add something to slash with Toxic, imo it's at least somewhat droppable. If Dragonite is banned or restricted, it'll be easier to do a CMS update as well. I would also consider putting Sleep Powder as the first move and putting it at the top of the set details if it's to be considered the "most important move".

Finally, it is worth noting that, because it will always land a critical hit, Razor Leaf is a very good move for taking out Amnesia users, which occasionally appear in the UU environment.

You should really put an example here. Poliwrath and Golduck are the only ones that come to mind, and Poliwrath doesn't often run it, either. I wouldn't even say "occasionally", it's more "rarely".

Other Options

Venusaur also has access to two boosting moves in Swords Dance and Growth. A Swords Dance set is possible with Venusaur, but doesn’t exactly take advantage of Venusaur’s strongest traits. Other Pokemon like Tentacruel and Pinsir arguably run the move with more consistency. Growth is another interesting move, but it only benefits Mega Drain, which is not an overly strong move on its own, or after boosting. Both Swords Dance and Growth, while interesting, are very difficult to fit on Venusaur.

There is virtually no reason to use Growth + Mega Drain at all, Razor Leaf is ridiculously good and gives Venusaur the immediate power it needs to be relevant. Unless you can sell this more in the analysis, cut it. As it stands, it just seems to debilitate the thing.

Leech Seed is another possible option. The move can be used instead of Toxic to deal with Partial-Trapping, and happens to have higher accuracy, but the effect isn’t permanent and deals much less damage. The move can also be used in tandem with Toxic, as doing so causes Leech Seed to drain an increasing amount of health with each turn, but setting this up in a real match is much easier said than done.

I think you should be clearer here, as well as sell it a bit more actually. Leech Seed helps with partial trapping as the drainage is actually quite similar to the damage Wrap users deal. It also affects Tentacruel, which is quite important if it gets cheeky with chip damage. You're healing 22 damage from Tentacruel and 24 damage from Dragonite. If we want to chuck it in, you're healing 20 against Pinsir, which again, is more than what Bind deals. Obviously, this doesn't consider the tragedy that is Wrap being able to crit. This is around double what Tentacruel deals with Wrap, and just a bit more than Dragonite's. There is absolutely a niche here, it's forcing the Wrap user out and preventing their progress.

I would discourage ToxSeed more as it's frankly an awful strategy, especially in a tier where you're spending a good bit of time immobilised. The opportunity cost is just too much to justify most of the time.

Everything else seems ok, implement and I'll look over this again.

 

[Volk]

Implemented, thank you.

Some comments:

Add something to slash with Toxic, imo it's at least somewhat droppable. If Dragonite is banned or restricted, it'll be easier to do a CMS update as well. I would also consider putting Sleep Powder as the first move and putting it at the top of the set details if it's to be considered the "most important move".

I unfortunately disagree with this. While I certainly like the idea of just retroactively CMSing Toxic out, I think saying Toxic is a negotiable fourth move is just a little dishonest. Toxic is far and away Venusaur's best fourth move at this time in my opinion, so I think it should be regarded as such. And for what it is worth, I think the move will still have a place on Venusaur even if Dragonite or APT is banned. The move still hits Tangela and Flying-type Pokemon while inherently synergizing with Wrap.

Add something to slash with Toxic, imo it's at least somewhat droppable. If Dragonite is banned or restricted, it'll be easier to do a CMS update as well. I would also consider putting Sleep Powder as the first move and putting it at the top of the set details if it's to be considered the "most important move".

I did it the way I did for two reasons. Number one is that I almost always put offensive moves in the first slot(s) of Pokemon that I use. It's just a habit that I have. Number 2 is that I think the analysis flows a bit better if I discuss Sleep second. I think it provides a level of context that eases the transition into the "pseudo-Team Options" section I provided.

 

[Plague von Karma]

I unfortunately disagree with this. While I certainly like the idea of just retroactively CMSing Toxic out, I think saying Toxic is a negotiable fourth move is just a little dishonest. Toxic is far and away Venusaur's best fourth move at this time in my opinion, so I think it should be regarded as such. And for what it is worth, I think the move will still have a place on Venusaur even if Dragonite or APT is banned. The move still hits Tangela and Flying-type Pokemon while inherently synergizing with Wrap.

Nothing wrong with a disagreement if you're correct! Don't sweat it.

You may as well chuck in some more targets in this case. Pinsir and Tangela come to mind, the latter of which you went over a bit, but Moltres and Rapidash could be snuck in if you really wanna dig.

Specifically, Pinsir is super easy to slot in here in a non-invasive manner:

It also happens to be Venusaur’s best move against Tangela and Pinsir, notably shutting down variants that run Bind.

The rest seems fine bar a little repetition in the Overview, so I'll give a QC 1/2 here so long as you proofread a little bit.

 

[Volk]

Done and QCed!

By the way, I'm not too sure what is the issue with the Introduction, so please point out anything specific if it remains.

 

[Plague von Karma]

By the way, I'm not too sure what is the issue with the Introduction, so please point out anything specific if it remains.

Right, I should prolly visualize it. It's really this one section that I take issue with.

At first, Venusaur may seem like a somewhat odd choice in RBY UU. For a while, Venusaur was close to obsolete, because Victreebel, which was an already fairly uncommon pick, largely outclassed it. However, as time progressed, Victreebel would exit the tier for OU, opening a power vacuum Venusaur was happy to occupy. Thanks to this and a few significant metagame shifts, Venusaur has become a permanent resident of RBY UU.

Despite its humble origins, Venusaur is a powerful threat in the UU metagame.

All of this is largely history, which I can understand and encourage using, but it should be condensed to focus more on the information relevant to the average reader: what it does. This can be summed up in a sentence, removing repetition and getting to the point quicker. I've highlighted bits that can be merged: overall, there are what should be two parts of a sentence.

Something like this can work, with some wording tweaks, of course.

Once in the shadow of Victreebel, with it leaving the tier, Venusaur has become a powerful resident of RBY UU.

--

Another thing I noticed, you didn't explain this too well.

Venusaur also has access to Swords Dance. A Swords Dance set is possible with Venusaur, but doesn’t exactly take advantage of Venusaur’s strongest traits. Other Pokemon like Tentacruel and Pinsir arguably run the move with more consistency.

The first two sentences just say the same thing. Access to Swords Dance = a set is possible, it goes without saying. I think you should try to sell this more since Venusaur's +2 Hyper Beam are actually quite powerful. For instance, it OHKOes Kadabra and KOes Persian, Electabuzz, and Dodrio with minimal chip. +2 Body Slam 2HKOes these and a couple of others, plus the threat of paralysis. When selling Swords Dance with any Pokemon, you need to show the material benefit that could make it worth using. You should also go over how RBY UU is not kind to setup users at all, especially Venusaur.

 

[Shellnuts]

Overall this is a very good analysis and, from my first reading (I will probably go over it again later), there's not much I would change, the only thing I think should be covered is what separates Venusaur from Tangela and when you should use Venusaur over Tangela, specifically Venusaur should be used on teams where Tangelas superior defensive value and support capabilities are not as needed as Venusaurs higher damage output.

I will go over it again later, so far pretty good.

 

[phoopes]

alright let's take a look at this one

Overview looks good. Idk if the history lesson is necessary because as a reader I think I would kind of just want to get into the analysis, but I think it can stay.

Set is obviously good.

Set comments:

Some neutral targets take hefty damage as well, with Kangaskhan and Kadabra dropping to two and three hits, respectively

Khan is a 75.3% chance to 2HKO, not guaranteed like it's implied here.

Working Venusaur into battle against slower foes so it can use Sleep Powder is essential to using Venusaur effectively. Most often, Venusaur will try to get in against Hypno. This can be accomplished in a number of ways.

I think mentioning Wrap as a way to bring in Venu would be good here. Not to give away your secrets but I'm pretty sure "the Volk" is using Wrap on Hypno, switching in Venu, and then using Sleep Powder after all :P

Other options looks good.

Checks and counters:

**Flying-Type Pokemon**: Venusaur’s Body Slam isn't particularly strong, so most Flying-type Pokemon can easily scare it away thanks to their resistance to Razor Leaf. Dragonite and Articuno take very little damage from any of Venusaur’s moves and can 2HKO with Blizzard, though it is only guaranteed for the latter. Dodrio can set up Agility fairly freely in front of Venusaur as Drill Peck is a 2HKO and Body Slam can't Paralyze it. While rare, Moltres performs almost identically to Articuno in the matchup.

Nitpick, but I'd put Dodrio first in this paragraph as it has the guaranteed 2HKO AND is immune to Body Slam paralysis. Give a shoutout to Fearow as well

Finally, the analysis is already pretty long but I'll agree with Shell's point from last month about it being nice to have a comparison to Tangela.

Once those few edits are in this should be good to go

 

[Volk]

Implemented. Marked as QCed and uploaded to the GP Queue. Cheers everyone!

By the way, I kept Dodrio where it was because it lowkey does not switch in super well against Venusaur. Razor Leaf does 25%, so it can really only come in like once or twice, and enters the range of many different Pokemon regardless. I expanded on Tangela a little bit, but I've discussed with Plague von Karma and Shellnuts and we concluded that comparisons in analyses are more frustrating than helpful. Consider how the OU Jolteon Analysis makes no direct comparisons to Zapdos, for example.

Also, "The Volk" is baiting Hypno to switch in by getting Kadabra in against Tentacruel. I added a remark about Wrap, however.

 

[Adeleine]

Add/Fix Remove Comment
(AC)/(RC): Add/Remove Comma

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[OVERVIEW]

At first, Venusaur may seem like a somewhat odd choice in RBY UU. For a while, Venusaur it was close to obsolete (RC) because Victreebel, which was an already fairly uncommon pick, largely outclassed it. However, as time progressed, Victreebel would exit the tier for OU, opening a power vacuum Venusaur was happy to occupy. Thanks to this and a few significant metagame shifts, Venusaur has become a permanent resident of RBY UU.

Despite its humble origins, Venusaur is a powerful threat in the UU metagame. Sleep is often deadly in RBY and Venusaur boasts the second-fastest reliable sleep move in UU, behind only Venomoth. While Venusaur is much slower than tier staples like Tentacruel and Kadabra, its Speed tier is still a cut above several bulky Pokemon, like Hypno and Vaporeon, and happens to be shared with Dragonite. It is in these matchups where Venusaur most often thrives, as it can either use an uncontested Sleep Powder or fire off a surprisingly powerful Razor Leaf. It can be tricky to get Venusaur into battle at times, but very little wants to face it once it has gotten in, especially if there is no protection from Sleep Clause. (the later "many mons can wall it if paralyzed" deprives this of some bite) Venusaur is a threat in the early game early-game that can still pick up some slack once it has done its main job with Sleep Powder.

Much like Victreebel before it, Venusaur is still held back by a small handful of flaws. Like Victreebel before it, Venusaur is notably restricted by its typing. While typing; while the Poison type does grant an immunity to Toxic, it isn’t good for much else. It leaves Venusaur quite vulnerable to Psychic from common Pokemon like Hypno, Kadabra, and Electabuzz while also causing it to take more damage from Earthquake than it otherwise would. doubling its damage from Earthquake. Combine this with the Ice weakness from the Grass type and you get a Pokemon with numerous troublesome matchups.

[SET]
name: Sleeper
move 1: Razor Leaf
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Toxic

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Razor Leaf is an obvious addition to every Venusaur set. The move will virtually always land a critical hit, so it provides Venusaur with a reliable form of STAB with a high damage output. Ignoring type matchups, Venusaur’s Razor Leaf is stronger than Raichu’s Thunderbolt and roughly even with Tentacruel’s Surf. Razor Leaf will always OHKO Dugtrio and Omastar and will deal well over 50% to Water-type Pokemon like Poliwrath and Dewgong. The move will also 2HKO Vaporeon 78.6% of the time, making Venusaur the only Pokemon in UU to do so reliably. Some neutral targets take hefty damage as well, with Kangaskhan and Kadabra dropping to two and three hits, respectively. Finally, it is worth noting that, because it will always land a critical hit, Razor Leaf is a very good move Razor Leaf's critical hits notably make it very good for taking out rare Amnesia users like Poliwrath and Golduck. Finally, if Venusaur was to drop Razor Leaf, it would be almost entirely outclassed by Tangela, who which has superior physical bulk and a more desirable typing. Because Venusaur was unfortunately denied access to Stun Spore, it makes use of Body Slam to try to spread paralysis. This is helpful against common switch-ins like Dragonite, Tentacruel, Articuno, and Kadabra. The move is also Venusaur’s best option for hitting some targets that resist Razor Leaf. Toxic exists on the set mainly so Venusaur can reliably prevent Dragonite from setting up Agility and subsequently using Wrap. reliably prevents Dragonite from setting up Agility + Wrap. It also happens to be Venusaur’s best move against Tangela, notably shutting down variants that run Bind. Other, less common users of partial-trapping moves, like Pinsir and Moltres, would also prefer to avoid Toxic, though they are more capable of fighting off Venusaur in general.

Sleep Powder is Venusaur’s most significant move. Working Venusaur into battle against slower foes so it can use Sleep Powder is essential to using Venusaur it effectively. Most often, Venusaur will try to somehow get in against Hypno. This can be accomplished in a number of ways. Most simply, Venusaur can just switch in whenever the opponent is likely to switch in a healthy Hypno. Pokemon such as Kadabra are quite good at baiting in Hypno, so they can be used to help Venusaur get the matchup it wants. Hypno; note that this can be done as early as turn 1 (RC) by leading with Kadabra. Venusaur can also come in after Hypno, or really any Pokemon, has used Rest. Venusaur can usually switch in and begin to use Sleep Powder to catch the Pokemon as soon as it wakes up or whatever seeks to switch in. Rest and use Sleep Powder to catch it or a switch-in immediately after it wakes up. (ik we talked, but lmk if I missed smth here) While this exploiting Hypno and resting Pokemon (I imagine?) is Venusaur’s main route to success, it isn’t its only one. For example, while Venusaur doesn’t quite wall Dugtrio, Venusaur can be a good switch into it, can also switch well into Dugtrio despite not quite walling it, as it can threaten an OHKO with Razor Leaf in addition to the risk of sleep. Venusaur also punishes Substitute Dugtrio exceptionally well, (AC) as Sleep Powder breaches the Substitute. Venusaur is also pretty good against Electric-type Pokemon, especially Raichu, but the threat of paralysis makes the matchup a little less desirable. Due to the way Venusaur functions, managing Paralysis becomes key to getting the most out of Sleep Powder. It is important not to paralyze many Pokemon before Venusaur has used Sleep Powder, as many Pokemon can easily wall Venusaur it once they are paralyzed. Once Venusaur has used Sleep Powder, it can become a bit more flexible. Usually Venusaur will usually transition right away to using Body Slam as to try to Paralyze something that will switch in. paralyze a switch-in. After that, it can serve as an answer to sleeping Water-type Pokemon or an auxiliary check to Dugtrio in the endgame. Venusaur is also a fairly common sleep fodder.

Venusaur’s array of traits make it a good teammate for several key Pokemon in the UU metagame. Leads like Kadabra and Electabuzz that can goad Pokemon like Hypno or and Dugtrio to switch in work very well with Venusaur, (AC) as they allow it to do its job very early on and interfere very little with the spread of paralysis. Articuno is uniquely suited to partner with Venusaur. Articuno It appreciates Venusaur’s ability to effortlessly thwart Water-type Pokemon as well as its access to Sleep Powder, which can make setting up Agility much easier. Articuno, in turn, does well against a lot of Pokemon that can scare or bully Venusaur, like Dragonite, Dodrio, and Tangela. Other wallbreakers and Agility sweepers like Kangaskhan, Persian, Dodrio, and Dragonite appreciate Venusaur for similar reasons.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Venusaur actually has a few interesting moves available to it, though most are not especially useful. Hyper Beam is arguably Venusaur’s its best alternative, being used over Toxic to hit a few targets for extra damage and finish off foes like Hypno a bit earlier. Rather impressively, it does well over 60% to Kadabra, while giving Venusaur a little extra kick to finish off opponents like Hypno a bit earlier than it otherwise could. Just note that dropping Toxic leaves Venusaur much more susceptible to partial-trapping. A Swords Dance set is also possible, but it doesn't exactly take advantage of Venusaur's strengths, and other Pokemon like Tentacruel and Pinsir run the move with more consistency.

Venusaur also has access to Swords Dance. A Swords Dance set is possible with Venusaur, but doesn’t exactly take advantage of Venusaur’s strongest traits. Other Pokemon like Tentacruel and Pinsir arguably run the move with more consistency.

Leech Seed is another possible option. The move can be used option instead of Toxic to deal with partial-trapping while also giving Venusaur some health back; it gives roughly as much as Wrap takes away. The move does have higher accuracy than Toxic, but the effect isn’t permanent, (AC) and it deals much less damage. Leech Seed also has the advantage of affecting Tentacruel, though it is unable to hit Tangela. The move can also be used in tandem with Toxic, as doing so causes Leech Seed to drain an increasing amount of health with each turn, Toxic to continually escalate Leech Seed's drained health, but setting this up in a real match is much easier said than done.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Haunter**: If Venusaur has already used Sleep Powder on something else, Haunter can be a pretty big issue for Venusaur. is a pretty big issue. Venusaur’s only option is Razor Leaf, which is 5HKO or worse. If Haunter is carrying Psychic, it can score a 3HKO. Otherwise, Haunter can Haunter can 3HKO if it's carrying Psychic or 4HKO with Night Shade.

**Flying-type Pokemon**: Venusaur’s Body Slam isn't particularly strong, so most Flying-type Pokemon can easily scare it away thanks to their resistance to Razor Leaf. Dragonite and Articuno take very little damage from any of Venusaur’s moves and can 2HKO with Blizzard, though it is only guaranteed for the latter. Dodrio can set up Agility fairly freely in front of Venusaur, (AC) as Drill Peck is a 2HKO and Body Slam can't paralyze it. While rare, Moltres performs almost identically to Articuno in the matchup.

**Psychic Users**: Being a Poison-Type Pokemon leaves Venusaur susceptible to the move Psychic. Kadabra is the scariest foe as it outpaces Venusaur and 2HKOes with Psychic. Kadabra is the scariest foe to exploit Venusaur's Psychic weaknesses, as it outpaces Venusaur and 2HKOes it. Due to the risk of a critical hit, Venusaur will almost always switch out in this matchup, assuming Kadabra is healthy. Note that Hyper Beam is a legitimate threat to a paralyzed Kadabra, however. Hypno, while slower, accomplishes the same as Kadabra. Hypno thus Hypno also 2HKOes but is slower, so it only really acts as a check if it is paralyzed or if one of its teammates is already asleep. Electabuzz is very likely to 3HKO Venusaur if it has Psychic, though Razor Leaf is also a 3HKO. Interestingly, the uncommon Venomoth is a premier Venusaur check as well. Venomoth effortlessly shrugs off Razor Leaf, outspeeds, (I imagine this is useful somewhere?) carries Sleep Powder and Stun Spore, and 3HKOes with Psychic.

**Ice-type Moves**: Fortunately for Venusaur, it is faster than most users of Ice-type moves, so it is much less afraid of them than its rival Tangela. Nonetheless, there are a few Pokemon that still can outspeed and threaten Venusaur. Tentacruel is the most prominent, as it can use Wrap against Venusaur and score a KO as early as 63.9%. Gyarados doesn't take Razor Leaf very well, but its base Speed is a single point higher, allowing it to threaten it barely outspeeds and threatens a likely 2HKO with Blizzard. If Venusaur is paralyzed, it will suddenly become a lot more afraid of Pokemon like Vaporeon, Omastar, and especially Dewgong as well.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Volk, 530877]]
- Quality checked by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [phoopes, 96315]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429], [, ]]

1/2, lmk of qs as always

 

[Volk]

Implemented pretty much everything. I only left out one thing in the beginning because I really didn't understand your suggestion. I sent you a message over Discord about it and will make the change soon after we go through it. Marked as GP 1/2 for now. Thank you and cheers!

Also, I implemented this bit:
Rest and use Sleep Powder to catch it or a switch-in immediately after it wakes up. (ik we talked, but lmk if I missed smth here)
a little bit differently because it sounded like the switch-in was waking up, which is not correct. Please review my corrected version.

 

[CryoGyro]

GP 2/2

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[OVERVIEW]

At first, Venusaur may seem like a somewhat odd choice in RBY UU. (rby is unique, i doubt people are coming in with preconceived notions) For a while, it Venusaur was close to obsolete, (comma) in UU because Victreebel, which was an already fairly uncommon pick, largely outclassed it. However, as time progressed, Victreebel would exit eventually exited the tier for OU, opening a power vacuum Venusaur was happy to occupy. Thanks to this and a few significant metagame shifts, Venusaur has become a permanent resident of RBY UU.

Despite its humble origins, Venusaur is a powerful threat. Sleep is deadly in RBY and Venusaur boasts the second-fastest reliable sleep move in UU, behind only Venomoth. While Venusaur is much slower than tier staples like Tentacruel and Kadabra, its Speed tier is still a cut above several bulky Pokemon, like Hypno and Vaporeon, and happens to be shared with Dragonite. It is in these matchups where Venusaur most often thrives, as it can either use an uncontested Sleep Powder uncontested or fire off a its surprisingly powerful Razor Leaf. Venusaur is a threat that can bully Pokemon with Sleep Powder early-game and continue to exert some offensive pressure once it has slept a foe is asleep.

Like Victreebel before it, Venusaur is notably restricted by its typing; while the Poison type does grant an immunity to Toxic, it isn’t good for much else. It leaves Venusaur quite vulnerable to Psychic from common Pokemon like Hypno, Kadabra, and Electabuzz while doubling its damage from making Earthquake neutral. Combine this with the an Ice weakness from the Grass type and you get a Pokemon with numerous troublesome matchups and some difficulty switching in.

[SET]
name: Sleeper
move 1: Razor Leaf
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Toxic

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Razor Leaf will virtually always land a critical hit, so it provides Venusaur with a reliable form of STAB with a high damage output and powerful STAB move that distinguishes it from Tangela. Ignoring type matchups, Venusaur’s Razor Leaf is stronger Its base damage is higher than Raichu’s Thunderbolt and even with Tentacruel’s Surf. (is this very helpful? a new player probably won't have an idea of relative strengths, raichu doesn't seem to be that common, and tentacruel is more a sum of its parts than a surf spammer from what i know) Razor Leaf will always OHKO Dugtrio and Omastar and will deal well over 50% to Water-type Pokemon like Poliwrath and Dewgong. The move will also 2HKO Vaporeon 78.6% of the time, making Venusaur the only Pokemon in UU to do so reliably. Some neutral targets take hefty damage as well, with Kangaskhan and Kadabra dropping to two and three hits, respectively. Additionally, Razor Leaf's critical hits make it a very good move for taking out rare Amnesia users like Poliwrath and Golduck. Finally, if Venusaur was to drop Razor Leaf, it would be almost entirely outclassed by Tangela, which has superior physical bulk and a more desirable typing. (competition belongs more in overview, and this is a loooot of razor leaf sentences already) Because Venusaur was unfortunately denied access to lacks Stun Spore, it makes use of Body Slam to try to spread paralysis. This is helpful against common switch-ins like Dragonite, Tentacruel, Articuno, and Kadabra. The move is also Venusaur’s best option for hitting some targets that resist Razor Leaf. Toxic reliably prevents Dragonite from setting up Agility + Wrap. It also happens to be Venusaur’s best move against Tangela, notably shutting down variants that run Bind. Other, less common users of partial-trapping moves, like Pinsir and Moltres, would also prefer to avoid Toxic, though they are more capable of fighting off Venusaur in general.

Sleep Powder is Venusaur’s most significant move. Working Venusaur into battle against slower foes so it can use Sleep Powder is essential to using it effectively. Most often, Venusaur will try to somehow get in against Hypno. Most simply, Venusaur can just switch in whenever the opponent is likely to switch in a healthy Hypno. Pokemon such as Kadabra (i generally dislike "such as" lists that only use one pokemon cause they deny readers a chance to see a pattern, and surely there's more than kadabra to bait an S rank) are quite good at baiting in Hypno; note that this can be done as early as turn 1 by leading with Kadabra. Venusaur can also come in after Hypno, or really any Pokemon, has used Rest and use Sleep Powder to catch a switch-in or it immediately after it wakes up put the Rest user right back to sleep. While exploiting Hypno and resting Pokemon Rest users is Venusaur’s main route to success, it isn’t its only one. For example, it can switch well into Dugtrio despite not quite walling it, as it can threaten an OHKO with Razor Leaf in addition to the risk of sleep. Venusaur also punishes Substitute Dugtrio exceptionally well, as Sleep Powder breaches the Substitute. Venusaur is also pretty good against Electric-type Pokemon, especially Raichu, but the threat of paralysis makes the matchup a little less desirable. It is important not to paralyze many Pokemon before Venusaur has used Sleep Powder, as many Pokemon can easily wall it once they are paralyzed. Once Venusaur has used Sleep Powder, it will usually will transition right away to using Body Slam to try to paralyze a switch-in. After that, it can serve as an answer to sleeping Water-type Pokemon or an auxiliary check to Dugtrio in the endgame. Venusaur is also a fairly common sleep fodder.

Venusaur’s traits make it a good teammate for several key Pokemon in the UU metagame. Leads like Kadabra and Electabuzz that can goad Pokemon like Hypno and Dugtrio to switch in work very well with Venusaur, as they allow it to do its job very early on and interfere very little with the spread of paralysis. Articuno is uniquely suited to partner with Venusaur. It appreciates Venusaur’s ability to effortlessly thwart Water-type Pokemon as well as its Sleep Powder, which can make setting up Agility much easier. Articuno, in turn, does well against a lot of Pokemon that can scare or bully Venusaur, like Dragonite, Dodrio, and Tangela. Other wallbreakers and Agility sweepers like Kangaskhan, Persian, Dodrio, and Dragonite appreciate Venusaur for similar reasons.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Venusaur actually has a few interesting moves available to it, though most are not especially useful. Hyper Beam is arguably its best alternative, being used over Toxic to hit a few targets for extra damage and finish off foes like Hypno a bit earlier. Rather impressively, it does well over 60% to Kadabra. Just note that dropping Toxic leaves Venusaur much more susceptible to partial-trapping.

A Swords Dance set is also possible, but it doesn't exactly take advantage of Venusaur's strengths, and other Pokemon like Tentacruel and Pinsir run the move with more consistency.

Leech Seed is a possible alternative to Toxic to deal with partial-trapping while also giving Venusaur some health back; it gives roughly as much as Wrap takes away. The move does have higher accuracy than Toxic, but the effect isn’t permanent, and it deals much less damage. Leech Seed also has the advantage of affecting Tentacruel, though it is unable to hit Tangela. The move can also be used in tandem with Toxic to continuously escalate Leech Seed's drained health, but setting this up in a real match is much easier said than done.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Haunter**: If Venusaur has already used Sleep Powder on something else, Haunter is a pretty big issue. Venusaur’s only option is Razor Leaf, which is 5HKO or worse. Haunter can 3HKO it if it's carrying Psychic or 4HKO with Night Shade.

**Flying-type Pokemon**: Venusaur’s Body Slam isn't particularly strong, so most Flying-type Pokemon can easily scare it away thanks to their resistance to Razor Leaf. Dragonite and Articuno take very little damage from any of Venusaur’s moves and can 2HKO with Blizzard, though it is only guaranteed for the latter. Dodrio can set up Agility fairly freely in front of Venusaur, as Drill Peck is a 2HKO and Body Slam can't paralyze it. While rare, Moltres performs almost identically to Articuno in the matchup against Venusaur.

**Psychic Users**: Kadabra is the scariest foe that can exploit Venusaur's weakness to Psychic, as it outpaces Venusaur and 2HKOes it. Due to the risk of a critical hit, Venusaur will almost always switch out in this matchup, assuming Kadabra is healthy. Note that Hyper Beam is a legitimate threat to a paralyzed Kadabra, however. Hypno also 2HKOes but is slower, so it only really acts as a check if it is paralyzed or if one of its teammates is already asleep. Electabuzz is very likely to 3HKO Venusaur if it has Psychic, though Razor Leaf is also a 3HKO. Interestingly, the uncommon Venomoth is a premier Venusaur check as well. Venomoth It effortlessly shrugs off Razor Leaf, outspeeds, carries Sleep Powder and Stun Spore, and 3HKOes with Psychic.

**Ice-type Moves**: Fortunately for Venusaur, it is faster than most users of Ice-type moves, so it is much less afraid of them than its rival Tangela. Nonetheless, there are a few Pokemon that still can outspeed and threaten Venusaur. Tentacruel is the most prominent, as it can use Wrap against Venusaur and score a KO as early as 63.9%. Gyarados doesn't take Razor Leaf very well, but it barely outspeeds it and threatens a likely 2HKO with Blizzard. If Venusaur is paralyzed, it will suddenly become becomes a lot more afraid of Pokemon like Vaporeon, Omastar, and especially Dewgong as well.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Volk, 530877]]
- Quality checked by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [phoopes, 96315]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429], [, ]]

 

[Plague von Karma]

This has been uploaded.