VGC 2013 Trick Room

[MrKijani]

Hello, I am MrKijani and I shall be making my first ever post here on Smogon, right here in the RMT.

My history in Doubles is somewhat short but very fast. I was first introduced to it by a friend of mine who after my first battle in which he thrashed me, asked if I wanted to make a team with him. My answer was of course a yes.

The first decision was what sort of team we would be making. After about 20 minutes of talking, we decided on Trick Room. We would of course, be using what is arguably the best Trick Room setter in the metagame, Cresselia. This floating piece of joy would need some good backup for that Trick Room, so we went for a Fake Out lead Hitmontop. From those two, we decided we would need one physical attacker, and one special attacker. Latios came up and so she was elected, and a good pair for Cress and Lati was Metagross, who wouldn't be enjoying those Garchomp/Zapdos DisQuake combos, which btw Latios counters very well. We now had four members of the team. But how about those last two. We settled on the perfect mix for Trick Room. GastroLure. With his Storm Drain and her Flash Fire we were taking all sorts of stuff on the switch ins. So, here is our VGC 2013 Doubles Trick Room team.

Note: The team was made during VGC years which had item clause.

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Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry

Trait: Levitate
EVs: 228 HP / 180 Def / 100 SDef
Modest Nature
- Icy Wind
- Helping Hand
- Trick Room
- Psyshock

Now you may be thinking "Icy Wind and Trick Room?? What's this guy smokin?" and yes, while it does seem contradictory it wrecks total havoc. Icy Wind destroys most dragon types we see in Doubles, and most of them are extremely fast. If we decide it's too risky to setup that Trick Room we have the option of slowing down out opponent to allow us to have the speed and force a switch, which allows us to get Room up. Psyshock is general attack. Helping Hand is epicly brilliant in Doubles, turning almost every 2HKO into a OHKO.

Here are some calcs:
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Cresselia: 126-150 (55.5 - 66.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 228 HP / 100 SpD Cresselia: 133-156 (59.37 - 69.64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Metagross Explosion vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Cresselia: 89-105 (39.2 - 46.25%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So just a couple attacks against this Cress that it takes like a pro. The first two 3HKOs and the last a 4HKO due to instant HP healing by Sitrus Berry.

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Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem

Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 84 Def / 156 SDef / 4 Spd
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Wide Guard

One line should suffice: Intimidate is a bitch.
But seeing as I have to have three lines of descrip I'll add some more. EVs although they look highly spread out all serve a purpose. Mostly SDef with maxed bulk, however we also have some defensive bulk that helps to absorb some hits. Fake Out lead/support. Wide Guard for DisQuake counter etc. Close Combat is wickedly powerful with gem, and Sucker Punch is priority and hurts them psychics so hard.

252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 156+ SpD Hitmontop: 151-179 (96.17 - 114.01%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO

20 Atk Hitmontop Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 110-130 (83.96 - 99.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

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Latios @ Dragon Gem

Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect

Protect can be most annoying in Doubles. Use it and kill that emey that threatens you so much with your teammate. Dragon Gem Draco Meteor is in one word: Overkill. But we love it anyway. HP Fire was for hitting steels (with the exception of Heatrat >.>) Psyshock secondary STAB and for hitting SDef pokes like Blissey. EVs are invested in speed, but the thing is about TR is that we don't have to always use Trick Room. So when the enemy predicts I utilize all those slow pokes and I whip out my speedy Latios, they scream, and shout, and let it all out.

Testing Latias as replacement
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Metagross @ Lum Berry

Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Atk / 4 Def / 136 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Ice Punch

Ice Punch: Dragons? Where?
Earthquake: Doubles, hell yeah
Zen Headbutt: Fighting types? Nuh uh
Meteor Mash: Die Sucka!!!

EVs provide nice bulk, attack boost, and enough defense to take some hits. Lum berry and Clear Body are true god sends when this comes out to play.

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Gastrodon @ Rindo Berry

Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Muddy Water
- Stockpile
- Recover
- Earth Power

This guy has proved himself over and over for this team. Taking all of those water attacks like a boss, Stockpile stalling, he just keeps going.

248 SpA Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 148 SpD Gastrodon: 178-210 (81.65 - 96.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dragon Gem boosted Draco Meteor. He survives, recovers, and lives on. Rindo Berry allows him to survive a grass hit without any trouble. Stockpile is just badass. This guy has caused so many ragequits with that slugswag

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Chandelure @ Fire Gem

Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 20 Def / 24 SAtk / 220 SDef
Sassy Nature
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Protect

This guy was brought in to cover Gastro's grass weakness and Meta's fire weakness. Under Trick Room he just wrecks utter havoc. Fire Gem boosted Heat Wave is godly fire. Shadow Ball and Energy Ball are mostly for coverage, although the SDef drop from Shadow Ball has proved highly useful. Protect is that extreme annoyance thing again. EVs utilize some of his natural bulk, while giving a little boost to his SAtk. Switch in on a fire move for max power and it's gg.

Set was (mostly) copied from Nugget Bridge (http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/guide-to-hailroom/)
"With the help of Fire Gem and the Special Attack EVs, Chandelure is able to OHKO max HP Metagross and Scizor, while also OHKOing max Speed Chandelure with Shadow Ball."
Energy Ball > Trick Room on our set.

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I would say the one pokemon, who has risen in use since the team was made, is Heatran. It counters, with ease, Cress, Chandy, Latios, and Metagross. Meta may carry EQ but Tran outspeeds and KO's in return. Top and Gastro are the only two who truly offer any protection, which is why it's essential to keep them alive if I see an opposing Tran.

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Thanks for taking the time to read my VGC Doubles team, and a shout out to my buddy, AlphaDraconis, who made it with me.

~MrKijani

 

[Last Chance Breaker]

Hey there MK :P I never actually got to see this team last time, so I'll be saying a few things here instead. (considering you were the one who got me into doubles, this does seem weird, so i will just go of with a mix of common sense and what I have seen being used before)

I still don't like Icy Wind + Trick Room. If you need only to beat dragons, go with ice beam. The point of trick room is to outspeed what you normally can't. You don't need both. Also, Psyshock, while it seems like a nice addition, doesn't actually add anything for cress. Keep it if you don't want utter taunt bait, but I would really prefer Toxic over anything really.

Hitmontop seems nice and good ;P

I can't say much for Latios really. You could replace it for Latias, it gives you more bulk for just a slight drop in power. Plus, no one expects Draco from Latias, meaning less switches. Surf could be a good idea, especially with gastro here. Heatran walls everything here other than Hitmontop, which isn't the hardest thing to pick off.

I suppose that's it then :P Have a nice life ;3

 

[AlphaDraconis]

Icy Wind + Trick Room allows you to outspedd when TrickRoom dies. You use
Icy Wind the last two turns. Then you can outspeed afterwards ;)

 

[Er Filethe]

Is a nice team and i can only suggest one thing metagross bander

 

[tlyee61]

hi, since the chandy spread was copied from here, at least copy+paste the specifics from this article" http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/guide-to-hailroom/

also, cress EV spread optimized: 228 HP / 180 Def / 100 SDef (adds 1 point in HP) and you calced some stuff with a +spdef nature, you might to fix those. also, i see no point in showing the hydreigon calc since it 2hkoes anyway (maybe if it 3hkoed or something it would be worth it)



either add swagger to cress or take lum off meta.

use a gastro spread from this article if you want, your current is okay (defensive?)
http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/gastrodon-for-dummies/

latios: optimize spread for HP fire (248 in spatk and speed, put 4 in def + hp)

 

[MrKijani]

hi, since the chandy spread was copied from here, at least copy+paste the specifics from this article" http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/guide-to-hailroom/

also, cress EV spread optimized: 228 HP / 180 Def / 100 SDef (adds 1 point in HP) and you calced some stuff with a +spdef nature, you might to fix those. also, i see no point in showing the hydreigon calc since it 2hkoes anyway (maybe if it 3hkoed or something it would be worth it)



either add swagger to cress or take lum off meta.

use a gastro spread from this article if you want, your current is okay (defensive?)
http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/gastrodon-for-dummies/

latios: optimize spread for HP fire (248 in spatk and speed, put 4 in def + hp)

Thanks for reminding me about that Nugget bridge set as it is indeed where we got it.
I'll definitely be trying out that Cress set and thanks for letting me know about the calcs. Hydreigon is 3HKO with Berry.
Lum berry is on Meta to counter burns and paralysis as we were having issues with it, we could do Swagger but Helping Hand does just as well and is more team oriented as opposed to working with one poke.

I'm thinking of trying out Latias as LCB suggested for the bulk. I'll experiment with some different sets for it, but if I switch back then I'll be revising those EVs as per your suggestion.

 

[tofucocoa]

This was a better team than I was expecting, but I think you could make a few changes to make this more efficient. First of all, I'd recommend getting rid of Gastrodon. While Storm Drain is nice, you're not doing much of anything else with Gastrodon besides doing chip damage, which isn't what you need to be doing under Trick Room. Amoonguss does the same thing as Gastrodon if you're just using it to check rain, but Spore under Trick Room is much more dangerous and game changing than simply guarding against Scald and Hydro Pump, which doesn't help you if they use Surf or Muddy Water. You might be able to get away with Ferrothorn too, but I can't say much on that since I haven't seen or used it much to pass judgement on it.

I don't like Hitmontop on Trick Room teams either since it's too weak after it uses its Fighting Gem up, and Sucker Punch has trouble 2HKOing Latios, which really says something imo. Additionally, if you lead cress+top, you're not making much use of your allotted 4 turns because both of them can't do much damage on their own, leaving the opponent free to stall out Trick Room. I'd recommend switching Hitmontop with either Persim Scrafty or Hariyama. If you use Persim Scrafty, you might also want to use Lum Metagross and Swagger Cresselia to boost your attack power without major drawbacks, along with the fact that Scrafty has Intimidate, so it's doing a similar job to Hitmontop. Hariyama on the other hand is just super powerful and wears itself out quickly so you can bring in another big bruiser. It also has Feint, which allows you to make even more use of Trick Room, and of course Fake Out helps Trick Room get up and gives it a turn to activate Toxic Orb. You may also feel like combining the two jobs of strong Fighting type and Trick Room setter to conserve space, which is exactly what Gallade does (it even has feint!), though this is a more drastic change, since it would probably lead to Metagross and/or Latios being switched.

Chandelure should have Trick Room over Energy Ball. Shadow Ball already does enough to water types, and since this is a Trick Room team, it should be obvious how that helps you. Also use Focus Sash over Fire Gem for more consistent setups, as well as being able to take on other Latios and Chandelure more easily.

Metagross should pick between Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt and Earthquake as a filler move to go alongside Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch, because Protect is just too good to pass up with Landorus-T and Water Gem Politoed running around. You don't really need Zen Headbutt because Cresselia and Latios already take care of Fighting types, and Earthquake isn't all that great since you've got other Metagross checked with Latios and Chandelure (electric types are usually floating anyway). Ice Punch is probably your best bet since it seems Metagross is your main switch-in for Draco Meteors, so it's probably best that you have something to deal with those Dragons without resorting to Meteor Mash. You might also want to use Adamant with 14 Speed IVs with Swagger Cresselia, which enables Sassy Cresselia to Swagger Metagross before it attacks under Trick Room.

Cresselia shouldn't be Modest unless you're planning on using offensive Cresselia. You only need Sassy and 30 Special Attack EVs to 2HKO 252/0 Hitmontop with Psyshock. Here's a little EV spread for you; 212 HP / 108 Def / 30 SpA / 156 SpD / 4 Spe, though this is for Calm, and you obviously don't need speed with Trick Room so feel free to tinker with the exact numbers. The HP allows for a nice Sitrus number and less Sandstorm damage while being able to survive Dark Gem Tyranitar's Crunch with some health to spare.

Latios looks fine, though you should use 4 HP / 4 Def / 248 Spa / 4 SpD / 248 Spe since with HP Fire, a simple 252/252 spread wastes EVs. If Latios were to change at all, I'd reccomend Hydreigon as a replacement because it isn't as weak to Tyranitar, but other than that Latias would just slow the team down. You might also want to consider Life Orb Latios so you can fire off multiple strong Draco Meteors, as well as the fact that it boosts your other attacks as well.

 

[MrKijani]

That sounds like some pretty good stuff. I'll be redoing the team and testing it, I'll even try out Gallade while switching Latios. I'll give all of your suggestions a whirl and let you know what I think.

I'll try out Moonguss, what sort of set would you suggest?

Also my friend switched Top out for Chople Scrafty on his version of the team, here's the set he uses
King Punk (Scrafty) (M) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Fire Punch
- Crunch
- Drain Punch
- Fake Out
Would this work with Lum/Persim > Chople for SwaggerCress?

 

[tlyee61]

That sounds like some pretty good stuff. I'll be redoing the team and testing it, I'll even try out Gallade while switching Latios. I'll give all of your suggestions a whirl and let you know what I think.

I'll try out Moonguss, what sort of set would you suggest?

Also my friend switched Top out for Chople Scrafty on his version of the team, here's the set he uses
King Punk (Scrafty) (M) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Fire Punch
- Crunch
- Drain Punch
- Fake Out
Would this work with Lum/Persim > Chople for SwaggerCress?

Scrafty @ Lum / Persim Berry
Intimidate
Brave
252 HP / 116 Atk / 28 Def / 108 SpDef / 4 Speed
-Fake Out
-Drain Punch
-Crunch
-Detect

a Spread that allows you to live a -1 Fight Gem Close Combat from Hitmontop or a Dragon Gem boosted Draco Meteor from Latios.

 

[MrKijani]

Thanks for the set tlyee61

I found with Amoonguss I was quite weak to Volcarona. I'm thinking of trying out some new pokes for that spot. However everyone took hits like a boss xD

 

[tlyee61]

Thanks for the set tlyee61

I found with Amoonguss I was quite weak to Volcarona. I'm thinking of trying out some new pokes for that spot. However everyone took hits like a boss xD

hmm, since chandy walls volc, you could try something weird like HP Rock on it to hard counter Volc. I sometimes like to tech in random support moves seeing as chandy resists many types and can't be faked out.