VGC 2015 Viability Rankings (B Rank Nominations)

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Terrakion for A Rank.

Rock/Fighting is an amazing typing and w/ it's speed stat it outspeeds and OHKO's a lot of threats. It also gets access to Quick Guard which is reliable for stopping Prankster, Fake Out, etc and is extremely versatile in the items it can run with some examples being Scarf, Life Orb and Focus Sash.

Definitely deserves A Rank imo.
Not to mention Rock Slide STAB with a fantastic base attack behind it, incredibly useful and relatively rare in VGC.
 
I think Rotom Heat should stay in A. In this generation it's gotten better due to the prevalence of Thundurus. That is, Rotom Wash takes around 50% from a neutral Thunderbolt but Rotom Heat resists Electric. Rotom Heat provides just as nice a wall for Talonflame, Charizard, Heatran, and isn't weak to Venusaur (which, admittedly, has fallen in usage in 2015). With Charizard especially, Rotom Heat doesn't get KOed by a Solar Beam. Overheat on Rotom Wash is more reliable than Hydro Pump (being 90% accurate instead of 85%) and picks up the OHKO on Aegislash. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, it resists Sylveon's Hyper Voice, which can do some 70% on Rotom Wash.

I'm not saying Rotom Heat is absolutely better than Rotom Wash, but it definitely has traits that put it on the same level as Wash. If Rotom Heat should go to B, then so should Rotom Wash...
Agreeing with this, I'd leave Rotom-Heat and Rotom-Wash together for now.

Terrakion for A Rank.

Rock/Fighting is an amazing typing and w/ it's speed stat it outspeeds and OHKO's a lot of threats. It also gets access to Quick Guard which is reliable for stopping Prankster, Fake Out, etc and is extremely versatile in the items it can run with some examples being Scarf, Life Orb and Focus Sash.

Definitely deserves A Rank imo.
Rock/Fighting is nowhere near amazing typing in this metagame, but it does have enough perks to go B rank. Look at weaknesses: Water, Grass, Fighting, Ground, Psychic, Steel, Fairy. Also consider the fact that it is crippled by Will-o-Wisp and gets set back significantly by Intimidate.
 
Can we focus on getting S rank figured out first? We can work our way down the tiers afterwards.
Cresselia for S -> A Rank
cress support isn't as good as it once was, simply because of the megas that can bust through it (kang, megamence, etc), bisharp, aegislash, etc. the nerf to base power on special moves was none too kind to it either, since ice beam needs more investment to OHKO key pokemon like landorus, which detracts from its bulk. it's still an amazing trick room/general support, but it's been nerfed and isn't as good this time around.

Thundurus for S -> A Rank
thund can be bulky or powerful. it can't be both, which is pretty much the reason why it's not in the same league as kang and landog. it has amazing support and has a good bite to its attacks when bulky but can still fall short, especially with the special attack nerf (HP ice mainly). when offensive, it can still fall short because gems aren't around and some of the pokemon it could set up nasty plots on (hitmontop) aren't as relevant as they once were. also again, HP ice is weaker.

Sylveon for S -> A Rank
sylveon is just too physically weak and slow to be in S rank. it needs support to overcome speed issues and often needs intimidate to live big physical hits. landorus and kang (the true S rank pokemon) don't need such support, or ARE the support. hyper voice is still really good and supporting it is relatively easy so A rank suits it.

also alqz , for consistency's sake, let's not change the tier list without said changes being voted on (or i guess, let me and laurel change em for you). thanks!
 
Can we focus on getting S rank figured out first? We can work our way down the tiers afterwards.
Going off of this, the OU viability thread following ORAS' release had a system where they focused on the top two tiers and worked their way down. E.g. the first week or so they done S and A+, the next week A and A-, etc. Perhaps a similar system would be good here?
 

GiraGoomy

when you see a good meme
My thoughts on the S Rank tier.

Thundurus for S -> A rank
As lucariojr has posted, Thundurus can either be bulky or powerful, not both simultaneously. Even though it has great support options in Thunder Wave, Taunt and has Ice coverage in HP Ice, a lot of the times you need to invest for them OHKO's/2HKO's you can significantly take away from bulk. It's still really good, but just not as good then it was in the previous VGC natdex format (VGC 13).

Sylveon for S -> A rank
I personally have no idea why people are so scared of Sylveon in this format just due to the fact that it's slow, has a terrible defence stat, and unless you're running something like HP Ground it's countered by almost every Steel type in the format. I personally think it needs way too much support in speed control and intim/will-o to be a really big major threat in the tier. I mean if we're talking about Sylveon being really good, we might as well talk about the similarities and differences it has to Mega-Gardevoir.

Cresselia to stay in S rank
Cresselia is bulky af and it just doesn't simply faint. It's extremely versatile in it's choice of item (eg's include: Sitrus Berry, Chesto Berry, Safety Goggles, Expert Belt, etc), and extremely versatile in it's moveset. Not only does it provide good support moves in Helping Hand, but it also has good speed control options in Trick Room and Icy Wind. I don't think it's been nerfed at all as compared to VGC 13. The only thing setting it back this time is the introduction of Knock Off and Pokemon such as Aegislash. Investing into Sp.A doesn't even take away from it's bulk significantly. You can run enough Sp.A to OHKO Lando-T w/ Ice Beam and still have enough EV's left to survive a LO Bisharp's Knock Off, Modest 252 Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse, etc. Not to mention it's also another way to help a team against rain or support the rest of your own team with weather moves such as Sunny Day and Rain Dance.


I'll argue my Terrakion point at a later date, because I really do believe that you are making some unfair calls against it especially since I believe that there are a large number of Pokemon effected by the same thing you pointed out rated above it. (See Garchomp, Metagross-Mega and Talonflame as examples)
 

DaAwesomeDude1

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My thoughts on S rank
Thundurus from S -> A
Pretty much what lucariojr and GiraGoomy said above. It can be bulky or powerful but not both. It's got a great support move set that's for sure but that doesn't make it S rank material. Offensive wise HP ice nerf really hurt it and there aren't many times where you can set up a nasty plot.
Sylveon from S -> A
Oml stop overhyping this thing. Sylveon is good but again it's not S rank material. It's beaten by pretty much every single steel type in the meta and it's defense and speed stat is low. Before anyone says something about scarf sylveon, you give up power from specs to use it and common steel types can still wall you if you use hyper voice and if you use something like HP ground other pokemon can easily wall you too or take little damage from the HP forcing you to switch. All in all, it's not S rank material
Cresselia stay in S
I agree with GiraGoomy in this one. It's pretty much a staple in trick room teams and it's still one of the, if not the most, bulky pokemon in the meta. It's got access to icy wind/thunder wave which are both great forms of speed control and helping hand to boost your partner's attacks. Although not used as often it also has access to a recovery move in the form of moonlight. With the right investment, ice beam can OHKO x4 weak mons like Salamence/Landorus/Garchomp and unlike thundurus, you won't be sacrificing any bulk cause this thing is naturally bulky.
 
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Cresselia is good, but can very easily be made into dead weight. The number of Pokemon which Cresselia is either set-up bait for or can't hit is dangerously high. Cresselia is near useless against every Dark- and Steel-type, giving away free turns left and right. Cresselia can't afford to run Protect which makes attacking it very easy as it requires zero prediction. Ice Beam drop in power is super significant as it requires enough EVs in SpA to pick up the desired OHKOes to where it negatively effects it bulk, Icy Wind is risky because Bisharp is everywhere and can safely switch in on Cresselia. The argument that Cresselia's natural bulk is good, isn't wrong it's just kinda irrelevant because there will be points where Cresselia is a well in your momentum, so it being alive is beneficial for your opponent. These are not traits of an S Rank Pokemon, the benefits of Cresselia only partially make up for its flaws. S -> A Rank
 
Charizard (Mega Y) from A to S: Sure
Charizard (Mega X) from B to C: Sure
Venusaur (Mega) from A to B: Sure
Scizor (Mega) from B to C: No way
Sylveon from A to S: It's good, so I see it in high A-S range(Yes I spam it)
Suicune from S to A: Love Suicune, but no way in hell. Nominating for low B-high C
Not really sure yet but I am thinking about a possible move to S rank for Aegislash


Edit: I also second the move for Cresselia from S to A
Scizor: Mega Scizor offers VERY little outside of OHKO-ing Sylveon without Life Orb or Choice Band. Still gets torched. Still pretty slow. Still not the best again Water-types using Scald. Still doesn't offer too much extra over what a standard Scizor can do offense or defense-wise. Since it doesn't have a huge damage potential increase in its ability, nor does it learn a huge base power move to utilize as a mega, there's not much reason to run Mega Scizor over Mega Mawile or Metagross. Its absence is telling for a reason.

Suicune: C is too low. Low B is too low. Still a powerful bulky Water-type option outside of Milo and Rotom. All three of them deserve to be mid-B or higher imo. Tailwind support is great speed control that you can't miss, and it's the next hardest tank to get rid of after Cresselia. C is too low imo.

Aegislash: You seen that many around? I'm actually just asking.
 

GiraGoomy

when you see a good meme
Aegislash: You seen that many around? I'm actually just asking.
Aegislash definitely is getting usage for how it still beats Sylveon, Kanga and Cresselia while also being one of the best Wide Guard users in the meta. I personally think it's really good, but not S Rank material.
 
My thoughts on S rank
Sylveon from S -> A
Oml stop overhyping this thing. Sylveon is good but again it's not S rank material. It's beaten by pretty much every single steel type in the meta and it's defense and speed stat is low. Before anyone says something about scarf sylveon, you give up power from specs to use it and common steel types can still wall you if you use hyper voice and if you use something like HP ground other pokemon can easily wall you too or take little damage from the HP forcing you to switch. All in all, it's not S rank material
All you have to do is set up an environment where the opponent can't pick on it, and Sylveon can steal whole games. Hell, if you don't have explosive physical attacks to OHKO it or Steel-types to wall it, Sylveon STEALS WHOLE GAMES. Due to its main use being "spam pixilated moves", its move pool variety is garbage, but its viable item pool is massive. Pixie Plate, Sitrus, Life Orb, Choice Scarf, and Choice Specs. All of these things can vary up what to expect from Sylveon, even if choice items are the most popular atm. Sylveon instantly puts HUGE offensive pressure on opponents, and depending on the situation/move used, it can wreak havoc from turn 1. The reason Steel-types are so common now is almost Sylveon's doing alone. Almost, anyway. Definitely not wise to underestimate this thing. Entire teams need to be rebuilt when they can't properly beat Sylveon.
 
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Should we consider Contrary Serperior now that it's officially legal?
...Actually I'm not even sure if in fact it is legal, but seeing as it's being distributed in Japan I'm assuming it is. If not, just ignore me :]
Then again, although Contrary Serperior spamming Leaf Storms, setting up screens and paralysing may sound frightening... would it actually be viable?
I can only imagine it getting to +6 with a bulky Substitute set of some sort with a teammate redirecting damage. In addition Amoonguss isn't even worth considering for that role as it has mostly the same weaknesses.
There are way too many checks and counters to poor Serperior, but I wanted to put it out here for everyone's consideration.
Contrary Serperior for -> D Rank imo...
 
I don't see it getting farther than C tbh. Has a gimmick, but it gets muscled out of its niche, and Pokemon is a game about clashing niches, not sprawling gimmicks. Because it's so FREAKING OBVIOUS what it could/would/should/will do + it has a ton of weaknesses already prevalent in the meta (fire, ice, flying) + it can't hang with a Dragon-type for beans + its first Leaf Storm is gonna be weak as hell + other crap we could list all night, unless its main role is support via Glare and some other shenanigans, it's not gonna do much before it goes down, and even then, I can't see it being strong at all. Maybe they released it because they finally realized "Hey, this thing is gonna get bodied!"?
 

DaAwesomeDude1

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All you have to do is set up an environment where the opponent can't pick on it, and Sylveon can steal whole games. Hell, if you don't have explosive physical attacks to OHKO it or Steel-types to wall it, Sylveon STEALS WHOLE GAMES. Due to its main use being "spam pixilated moves", its move pool variety is garbage, but its viable item pool is massive. Pixie Plate, Sitrus, Life Orb, Choice Scarf, and Choice Specs. All of these things can vary up what to expect from Sylveon, even if choice items are the most popular atm. Sylveon instantly puts HUGE offensive pressure on opponents, and depending on the situation/move used, it can wreak havoc from turn 1. The reason Steel-types are so common now is almost Sylveon's doing alone. Almost, anyway. Definitely not wise to underestimate this thing. Entire teams need to be rebuilt when they can't properly beat Sylveon.
A Rank- "They can be team countered more easily than the Pokemon in S rank, but still provide crucial support or offensive presence that other Pokemon cannot"
IMO this sentence describes sylveon lol. Like i said above, Sylveon isn't bad but it's just not S rank material. Sylveon requires team support in order to "steal whole games." Rarely can you sweep your opponent's entire team with Sylveon with little to no support. Pokemon in the S rank can do it/should be able to do it with little to no support. If you don't have an answer to sylveon on your team, that's just poor teambuilding lol but just because you need an answer for it on your team does not justify it being in the S rank. With enough support, Sylveon can steal entire games but it needs quite a bit in order to do so. Also steel types have always been pretty relevant in the meta and the only one i can think of that rose because of Sylveon is probably like scizor.
 
I don't see it getting farther than C tbh. Has a gimmick, but it gets muscled out of its niche, and Pokemon is a game about clashing niches, not sprawling gimmicks. Because it's so FREAKING OBVIOUS what it could/would/should/will do + it has a ton of weaknesses already prevalent in the meta (fire, ice, flying) + it can't hang with a Dragon-type for beans + its first Leaf Storm is gonna be weak as hell + other crap we could list all night, unless its main role is support via Glare and some other shenanigans, it's not gonna do much before it goes down, and even then, I can't see it being strong at all. Maybe they released it because they finally realized "Hey, this thing is gonna get bodied!"?
I think you're very right, it sort of reminds me of the hype behind Florges who seems to have been designed predominantly for double battles although he proves completely useless and outclassed by so many other fairies and SpD tanks etc etc etc...
But along with what you said I guess Serperior showing up would really just be a one turn wonder because it doesn't have the bulk or type-resistances to survive for long. Guess the hype was useless, yet he made for a nifty surprise, especially when distribution was announced
 
View attachment 33683
Should we consider Contrary Serperior now that it's officially legal?
...Actually I'm not even sure if in fact it is legal, but seeing as it's being distributed in Japan I'm assuming it is. If not, just ignore me :]
Then again, although Contrary Serperior spamming Leaf Storms, setting up screens and paralysing may sound frightening... would it actually be viable?
I can only imagine it getting to +6 with a bulky Substitute set of some sort with a teammate redirecting damage. In addition Amoonguss isn't even worth considering for that role as it has mostly the same weaknesses.
There are way too many checks and counters to poor Serperior, but I wanted to put it out here for everyone's consideration.
Contrary Serperior for -> D Rank imo...
It is legal, i saw one on BS few days ago.
But yeah, it could even move up to C rank after it have seen some usage, but we will see. It seems bit gimmick and situnational, but when it really starts going, it becomes terrifying threat unless you have COOKIECLICKER BRAVEBIRD-SPAMMER SMOGONBURD TALONLAME Talonflame.

But yeah, now to changes i want to make:
Thundurus from S to A
Thundurus should drop, honestly, i have no idea why it is here. A is where it belongs. Swagger + Twave is hella annoying but its luck based, it isnt rly threat when you use Safeguard since it wont give much offensive pressure. While its however great mon, it doesnt belong to S rank.

Cresselia to stay in S
Cresselia possibly should stay in S rank. Its still easily one of the best support mons in the whole game, and its insane bulk means that its one of the few mons that can reliably take MULTIPLE hits from strong megas like Kangaskhan, Salamence, and Mawile. Its support movepool is ridiculous, its one of the best Trick Room setters, and immunity to EQ is more than big for it. While i agree that on some situations it might become dead weight, its not impossible to deal with that.

Sylveon to stay in S
Sylveon should stay in S rank. While its vulnerable to Wide Guard, and it needs little support, it seriously is like monster. Its Hyper Voice OHKOs almost everything that it is super effective against, many frailer mons and deals lots of damage even on many pokes that resists it. It has neat stats, too. Its slow, but its special bulk, 95/130, is incredible, meaning that it can tank even super effective stab special attacks. While its 95/65 bulk is not nearly as impressive, it still has good HP and that can be fixed with Intimidate mon, which most of teams has one now.

Raikou from A to B
I have no idea why Raikou is in A rank. While it has good speed, good special bulk and good Sp Atk, it seriously doesnt deserve to be in A rank. It has mediocre physical bulk, not so great ability for such mon aka Pressure, and as usual for Electric, its movepool isnt great. Drop it to B rank, that sounds better imo

Mega Gengar from B to A
Mega Gengar should be in A rank imo. It has good typing, neat ability aka Shadow Tag, good movepool and ridiculous 170 sp atk along with 130 base speed. Its pretty versatile too; it can be attacker, Perish Trapper and it works well with Whimsicott as Disable + Encore. Shadow Tag is incredible ability, and for multiple reasons i mentioned, it should rise to A rank.

Mega Camerupt from C to B
Mega Camerupt is incredible threat in Trick Room. It doesnt deserve to be in C rank, its B rank mon imo. With decent typing, 20 speed that makes it really ''fast'' in TR, absurb base 145 SpAtk with SHEER FORCE and potential Helping Hand boost from its partner (which is Cress most of time), its Heat Waves hits like truck. It has good bulk, and decent movepool to utilize Sheer Force, and with so much power under Trick Room. Even though it works mostly only in Trick Room, it definely should rise to B rank, just because how awfully strong it is under Trick Room.

Pachirisu from C to E
Seriously, its not that good. With now more powerful megas around, and return of mons like Thundurus with Taunt, Landorus, and return of some redirection mons, most notable Togekiss that was buffed from Gen 5, and due to it no longer has surprise value, Pachirisu doesnt deserve to be even in D rank. Everyone knows what it will do now, its not that hard to kill now that we got lot more powerful mons to this meta, with something like Landorus that can just destroy it. Ofc, Se Jun Park did win with it in the World, but that doesnt mean that it should be in C rank. Plus, this is entirely different meta, and it wont deserve to be in rankings at all.

And last thing: Mega Altaria from E to D
Mega Altaria doesnt deserve to be in E rank. It has great typing, and unlike other Pixilate users, it has pretty good physical bulk and actually great coverage moves like Fire Blast and Ice Beam. It has access to Roost and Tailwind to make it neat Tank. It can theoretically run physical set, but its pretty much outclassed by Mega Mence. Mega Altaria should atleast be in D rank, maybe even in C, but D looks fine for me.

EDIT: ctrl + f mienshao not found. Perhaps Shao should be in rankings, due to the fact it has great support movepool, good offensive stats, Inner Focus and the fact it can outspeed and OHKO mega kanga without scaring flinch of Fake Out
 
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It is legal, i saw one on BS few days ago.
But yeah, it could even move up to C rank after it have seen some usage, but we will see. It seems bit gimmick and situnational, but when it really starts going, it becomes terrifying threat unless you have COOKIECLICKER BRAVEBIRD-SPAMMER SMOGONBURD TALONLAME Talonflame.

But yeah, now to changes i want to make:
Thundurus from S to A
Thundurus should drop, honestly, i have no idea why it is here. A is where it belongs. Swagger + Twave is hella annoying but its luck based, it isnt rly threat when you use Safeguard since it wont give much offensive pressure. While its however great mon, it doesnt belong to S rank.

Cresselia to stay in S
Cresselia possibly should stay in S rank. Its still easily one of the best support mons in the whole game, and its insane bulk means that its one of the few mons that can reliably take MULTIPLE hits from strong megas like Kangaskhan, Salamence, and Mawile. Its support movepool is ridiculous, its one of the best Trick Room setters, and immunity to EQ is more than big for it. While i agree that on some situations it might become dead weight, its not impossible to deal with that.

Sylveon to stay in S
Sylveon should stay in S rank. While its vulnerable to Wide Guard, and it needs little support, it seriously is like monster. Its Hyper Voice OHKOs almost everything that it is super effective against, many frailer mons and deals lots of damage even on many pokes that resists it. It has neat stats, too. Its slow, but its special bulk, 95/130, is incredible, meaning that it can tank even super effective stab special attacks. While its 95/65 bulk is not nearly as impressive, it still has good HP and that can be fixed with Intimidate mon, which most of teams has one now.

Raikou from A to B
I have no idea why Raikou is in A rank. While it has good speed, good special bulk and good Sp Atk, it seriously doesnt deserve to be in A rank. It has mediocre physical bulk, not so great ability for such mon aka Pressure, and as usual for Electric, its movepool isnt great. Drop it to B rank, that sounds better imo

Mega Gengar from B to A
Mega Gengar should be in A rank imo. It has good typing, neat ability aka Shadow Tag, good movepool and ridiculous 170 sp atk along with 130 base speed. Its pretty versatile too; it can be attacker, Perish Trapper and it works well with Whimsicott as Disable + Encore. Shadow Tag is incredible ability, and for multiple reasons i mentioned, it should rise to A rank.

Mega Camerupt from C to A
Mega Camerupt is incredible threat in Trick Room. It doesnt deserve to be in C rank, its B rank mon imo. With decent typing, 20 speed that makes it really ''fast'' in TR, absurb base 145 SpAtk with SHEER FORCE and potential Helping Hand boost from its partner (which is Cress most of time), its Heat Waves hits like truck. It has good bulk, and decent movepool to utilize Sheer Force, and with so much power under Trick Room. Even though it works mostly only in Trick Room, it definely should rise to B- rank, just because how awfully strong it is under Trick Room.

Pachirisu from C to E
Seriously, its not that good. With now more powerful megas around, and return of mons like Thundurus with Taunt, Landorus, and return of some redirection mons, most notable Togekiss that was buffed from Gen 5, and due to it no longer has surprise value, Pachirisu doesnt deserve to be even in D rank. Everyone knows what it will do now, its not that hard to kill now that we got lot more powerful mons to this meta, with something like Landorus that can just destroy it. Ofc, Se Jun Park did win with it in the World, but that doesnt mean that it should be in C rank. Plus, this is entirely different meta, and it wont deserve to be in rankings at all.

And last thing: Mega Altaria from E to D
Mega Altaria doesnt deserve to be in E rank. It has great typing, and unlike other Pixilate users, it has pretty good physical bulk and actually great coverage moves like Fire Blast and Ice Beam. It has access to Roost and Tailwind to make it neat Tank. It can theoretically run physical set, but its pretty much outclassed by Mega Mence. Mega Altaria should atleast be in D rank, maybe even in C, but D looks fine for me.
I think we're going to work down the tiers, at some point we should really vote on the S Rank change nominations.

Just a simple point saying some Sylveon's problems can be fixed by a having an Intimidate user is an argument for it to be A Rank, a reliance on team support isn't a reason something is good. Wide Guard is more than an issue for it, especially Choice Specs set, by forcing it to use a single target move pretty much removes any reason to use Sylveon.

You mention that "its not impossible to deal with that", in regards to Cresselia being dead weight, that isn't an argument. How does Cresselia deal with that? Switching may not be possible or unable to do so safely. Something being A Rank doesn't make it bad, it just means it has some flaws which make it somewhat inconsistent. Being able to take hits from Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Mawile really doesn't mean anything when you can't do shit back, all it means is Cresselia is allowing its partner to be attacked with no risk.

If this is going to be run in a similar way to the Doubles viability ranking thread we should really vote soon.
 
A Rank- "They can be team countered more easily than the Pokemon in S rank, but still provide crucial support or offensive presence that other Pokemon cannot"
IMO this sentence describes sylveon lol. Like i said above, Sylveon isn't bad but it's just not S rank material. Sylveon requires team support in order to "steal whole games." Rarely can you sweep your opponent's entire team with Sylveon with little to no support. Pokemon in the S rank can do it/should be able to do it with little to no support. If you don't have an answer to sylveon on your team, that's just poor teambuilding lol but just because you need an answer for it on your team does not justify it being in the S rank. With enough support, Sylveon can steal entire games but it needs quite a bit in order to do so. Also steel types have always been pretty relevant in the meta and the only one i can think of that rose because of Sylveon is probably like scizor.
With that logic Mega Mence and Lando are also A-rank. Just because there's an abundance of counters, doesn't mean it's easily countered, per say. Just means people are using the counters a lot.
 
ok, so votes. vote "yes" if you want that certain pokemon to go to that tier, "no" if you dont want it to.

Cresselia S -> A: Yes
Thundurus S -> A: Yes
Sylveon S -> A: Yes

this should be an easy vote folks so let's give it a day or so. after that we'll work on A rank and the possibility of splitting it up a little.
 
Cresselia S -> A: Yes
Thundurus S -> A: Yes
Sylveon S -> A: Yes

This one point also should not need discussing at all. Pachirisu should be E imo, D at the highest. Just because it worked on one team where a good player intelligently used it does not mean anyone can.
 
Cresselia S -> A: yes
Thundurus S -> A: yes
Sylveon S -> A: yes

S definitely needs a trim imo. Right now it just looks "mons that are very good" instead of "the best mons in the format"
 

DaAwesomeDude1

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is a Top Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
With that logic Mega Mence and Lando are also A-rank. Just because there's an abundance of counters, doesn't mean it's easily countered, per say. Just means people are using the counters a lot.
With what logic, just because you need counters for it on your team doesn't justify it being s rank? Your justification for sylveon being S rank is that pixilate hyper voice hits really hard and that it can sweep teams if given the chance. By that logic, pokemon like Charizard Y should be S rank lol. Like i've said before, Sylveon is really good but it's just not S rank material. It's not on the same level as pokemon like Landorus, Kanga, and Mence (mence being S is kind of debatable). It's low speed and low defense stat hinders it from being able to sweep teams effectively without a lot of team support unlike mons like Kanga and Mence. It's explosive power is really nice though and fairy being a pretty nice typing allows it to hit many things neutrally but again that doesn't justify it enough to be put into S rank.
 
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