VGC 2015 Viability Rankings - Mark 2

[nightwolf]

Saw the convo a page back about Vivillon and I think you're all forgetting it gets tailwind. Literally all you need is a fake out and Vivillon can use tailwind and outspeed the entire metagame i think. It outclasses breloom as a support as it can set its own tailwind and not waste another slot on suicune, zapdos, etc. It's still shit defensively, forcing you to run sash, but the ability to hit grass types with hurricane allows it to not be bothered by the immunity to sleep powder unlike breloom who gets walled by amoongus and venusaur. Vivillon is not perfect nor good, as it loses to rock slide, talonflame, etc. but it's definitely a bit lower than it should and very underestimated. with proper prediction, setup swerpers like pup kanghaskan can destroy opposing teams.

But if you guys wanna talk about dewgong instead thats okay :/

powder and rage powder are trash please use the smogon doubles set

I think most people around here agree that the support shouldn't need support(not calling fake out support but it certainly needs more than just fake out and tailwind to do its job). And lets be honest, any support that needs to run 252/252 and a helfpul defensive nature to survive a spread move in doubles, should be very very low on the viability rankings

252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vivillon: 164-196 (87.7 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

 

[Rocxidi]

I think most people around here agree that the support shouldn't need support(not calling fake out support but it certainly needs more than just fake out and tailwind to do its job). And lets be honest, any support that needs to run 252/252 and a helfpul defensive nature to survive a spread move in doubles, should be very very low on the viability rankings

252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vivillon: 164-196 (87.7 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

no idea what you are trying to run but okay

replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2015-290943726

heres a replay where i beat a fairly standard rain team. not the best replay i could offer but im not gonna grind for hours to get to 1500 or something as i play mostly on wifi

anyways im running the smogon doubles set that allows it to use its decent speed tier to either start putting slow things to sleep turn one or set up tailwind anticipating faster threats. you can see i have no team support other than the one fake out user. it just happens to be the best pokemon in the tier, so i don't always have to lead with vivillon and i have a lot of flexibilty thanks to having the roles of speed control and spammable sleep powder in one slot.

honestly it should be in c- or at least d. a pokemon thats actually usable shouldnt be ranked with dumb shit like parasect nor under trash like trevenant

 

[nightwolf]

no idea what you are trying to run but okay

Wasn't really running anything, just showing that it's too frail to be anywhere near C-. And that "doubles" spread you use guarantees it doesn't live past turn 2 at best against a lando-kang lead which is the most common lead in the game currently. Lets not forget that it's also easy taunt bait. So in short, even if you were some how able to get a tailwind up, it would die shortly after

 

[manodelrey]

no idea what you are trying to run but okay

replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2015-290943726

heres a replay where i beat a fairly standard rain team. not the best replay i could offer but im not gonna grind for hours to get to 1500 or something as i play mostly on wifi

anyways im running the smogon doubles set that allows it to use its decent speed tier to either start putting slow things to sleep turn one or set up tailwind anticipating faster threats. you can see i have no team support other than the one fake out user. it just happens to be the best pokemon in the tier, so i don't always have to lead with vivillon and i have a lot of flexibilty thanks to having the roles of speed control and spammable sleep powder in one slot.

honestly it should be in c- or at least d. a pokemon thats actually usable shouldnt be ranked with dumb shit like parasect nor under trash like trevenant

doesnt parasect get rage powder spore plus dry skin or effect spore as the ability?

 

[Mishimono]

doesnt parasect get rage powder spore plus dry skin or effect spore as the ability?

Amoonguss almost entirely outclasses Parasect as it has better typing and bulk. It also has base 60 SpA so it can't run Giga Drain for a bit of Recovery. The only real reason to use Parasect over Amoonguss Dry Skin which allows to gain helth during rain which could help his bulk but even then Amoonguss is probably better. I believe it also gets Wide Guard too so I guess that is something.

 

[Demantoid]

I'm going to nominate Mega Salamence to move from S -> A+

While it is still very good Mega Salamence struggles with many of the current meta trends. The rise of Milotic, Rotom-W, and Azumarill (although these don't always carry Fairy STAB anymore) as the most common water types hit it very hard. Milotic especially is very threatening since a Competitive boost allows to a huge threat to the rest of the team. Rotom-w resists the Flying stab and only takes around 50% from Draco after which it can Burn, Paralyze, or just
T-bolt Salamence. Lando-t is also threatening due to being able to Intimidate and Rock slide mence. It also struggles against Zapdos and Thundurus due to them effectively walling it. T-Wave on Salamence makes it extremely easy to deal with and HP Ices take huge chunks out of mence if they don't kill. Other mons in A- and above that threaten it are Cresselia, Heatran, Gardevoir, Sylveon, Aegislash, Clefable/airy, Tyranitar, Bisharp, Hydreigon, Politoed, Rotom-Heat, and Suicune either through tanking its attacks or threatening a huge amount of damage, but EQ can help against a few and some aren't as common as they used to be (Hydra and Suicune). There are many more in the lower ranks that also threaten it some of which are rising in usage (Porygon2).

 

[manodelrey]

Amoonguss almost entirely outclasses Parasect as it has better typing and bulk. It also has base 60 SpA so it can't run Giga Drain for a bit of Recovery. The only real reason to use Parasect over Amoonguss Dry Skin which allows to gain helth during rain which could help his bulk but even then Amoonguss is probably better. I believe it also gets Wide Guard too so I guess that is something.

oh i know amoongus competely outclasses it in just about every scenario. I was pointing out to the guy above me who shot down parasect in favor of vivillon in the rankings

 

[Mishimono]

oh i know amoongus competely outclasses it in just about every scenario. I was pointing out to the guy above me who shot down parasect in favor of vivillon in the rankings

oh haha lol

 

[R-B-Y]

Nominaring volcarona to b+

I have noticed a increase in volcarona usage in pokemon showdown, as well as its success in many regionals. Volcarona can run quiver dance, rage powder, or even tailwind, making it a very unpredictable pokemon. It's base 100 speed outspeed many common metagame threats, like Breloom and landorus.
Looking at the other b rank pokemon, volcarona is markedly superior to them, like venusaur, Gyarados, and hariyama, which have rather low usage.

Edit: I can't the image to work :(

 

[nightwolf]

Nominaring volcarona to b+

I have noticed a increase in volcarona usage in pokemon showdown, as well as its success in many regionals. Volcarona can run quiver dance, rage powder, or even tailwind, making it a very unpredictable pokemon. It's base 100 speed outspeed many common metagame threats, like Breloom and landorus.
Looking at the other b rank pokemon, volcarona is markedly superior to them, like venusaur, Gyarados, and hariyama, which have rather low usage.

Edit: I can't the image to work :(

I think it's a good option for a support that is an offensive alternative to the popular amoongus but its 4x weakness to landoges' rock slide without burning it kind of puts a damper on its strength.

(252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Volcarona: 152-180 (79.1 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)


I think B is fine for where it is though as I don't really think a rise in usage on showdown quite warrants moving up on the viability rankings, unless there are other reasons for it to warrant a 'promotion' that I didn't think of.

 

[GhostSword]

First post on this thread, wanted to nominate two pokemon that I find are out of place in my opinion:

Blaziken B- -> B+ (want A- but it is way to extreme for now)

This thing is way out of place in my opinion. First, I will talk about how it is far better than any other pokemon in B-/B rank. Compared to stuff like garchomp and regular gyarados this thing puts in so much work. Look at the current metagame, the only deterrent to this monster is the rise in AV lando and Azumarill. It can dispatch many of the common threats in the meta. Kang? OHKO, Non-AV lando? OHKO, Amoonguss? No problem, Aegislash? No problem. Heatran? No issues. The sheer amount of OHKOs it can pick makes it a viable candidate for a massive rise. It has its flaws in thunder-wave, azumarill, cresselia and AV lando but that is what keeps it from rising to A rank. B- is just too low for an anti-meta threat like this.

And greninja is not even comparable to blaziken. It can't outspeed scarf lando at +1 and can't even guarantee a OHKO on kangaskhan with low kick. It rarely OHKOs threats even with life orb and in such a fast paced metagame gets KOd easier than blaziken does, even though it has superior coverage.

Azumarill A- -> A

Azumarill is excellent in the current metagame when paired with amoonguss and kangaskhan. The fake out and rage powder support allow it to easily set up a belly drum and get at least 1 kill per game and usually ends up putting so much pressure that opponents wildly double into it in hopes of taking it out. Nothing enjoys taking a +6 aqua jet, and most pokemon that can take it lose to knock off. Amoonguss and ferrothorn are the best answers to this thing, but ferrothorn is not easy to fit in on teams either. In future I would want it to rise further, but that is for later. The metagame favors it at the moment since the usage of mega salamence is dropping and the CHALK core easily fits azumarill in.

EDIT: Just saw that Azumarill rose but I don't think my opinion changes one bit. This thing is a top 10 pokemon at worst and deserves to rise past A-. It is far more effective in the metagame than most A rank pokemon like zapdos, clefable, rotom-w and tyranitar. Most teams still haven't shifted to accomodate several answers to it.

 

[R-B-Y]

The main problem is that blaziken has like 0 bulk, and it has to switch out after hitting. While the power is immense, I don't think it makes up for the hit-and-run moves. I think it deserves to rise to B, but not B+

 

[Steven Stone]

I think it's a good option for a support that is an offensive alternative to the popular amoongus but its 4x weakness to landoges' rock slide without burning it kind of puts a damper on its strength.

(252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Volcarona: 152-180 (79.1 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)


I think B is fine for where it is though as I don't really think a rise in usage on showdown quite warrants moving up on the viability rankings, unless there are other reasons for it to warrant a 'promotion' that I didn't think of.

I feel like rather than the defensive set, is the Quiver Dance set the one that scares the horses out of people. Think of it as a mini Zard Y (because that's what it is, ngl) which, with the proper support, can punch holes through teams after a QD. And Volc is the easiest thing to set up QD with, as the support it needs is situational and a lot of Pokemon that are really good fit with it (Kang for Fake Out, Swampert / Aegislash for Wide Guard, Lando-T for intimidate, etc).

B+ for a threat that can sweep through teams, has a few answers in the meta (Salamence, Talonflame, Heatran... sounds familiar by any chance?) isn't that crazy, as Volc is like Zard Y as Sylveon is like Mega Gardevoir.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Staraptor

Although many would pass it over for the more conventional Talonflame, I believe it is powerful enough to make its own name. Sure, it has final gambit, which might be nice for taking out important stuff, but to be honest, I reckon it has more potential offensive-wise. I mean, 2 120 BP STAB moves in Brave Bird and Double Edge, Add Close Combat, Reckless ability and maybe a choice band and heck, you can plough your way through teams. Something it also has over Talonflame is that it's only 2x weak to rock (not great but better) Intimidate is also a nice option as well.

Staraptor is awesome, but I haven't used it recently. Intimidate and Featherdance could be really funny, but I like its array of options. Intimidate + Tailwind is pretty sweet, but has big competition from Salamence, which is bulkier, and has that crazy Mega to deal with. On a less supportive side, Scarf Reckless Brave Bird would achieve almost the same thing Talonflame does, but...

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 121-144 (66.1 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 113-134 (61.7 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Talonflame has 95% of the power, priority, and the ability to change moves.
Staraptor takes Rock Slide much better than Talonflame does, absolutely, but the three main roles I could see Staraptor doing are all outclassed by Mence (Intimidate + Tailwind), Talonflame, and Landog (Choice items / AV / Intimidate+U-Turn spam). Does have its niche, yes (Close Combat over Talon/Mence, actually has *gasp* Flying STAB unlike Landog and non-Mega Salamence) but it's not quite enough to justify it over our current Flying juggernauts.

CB Reckless Brave Bird is a bitch though. I mean:

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 183-216 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I would certainly hope people know by now how hard it is to OHKO Garchomp with a neutral hit. Still, not much of a reason to put it on the ranks, kind of like my Mandibuzz. It's not bad, but you need a damn good, and specific, reson to use it :P

I feel like rather than the defensive set, is the Quiver Dance set the one that scares the horses out of people. Think of it as a mini Zard Y (because that's what it is, ngl) which, with the proper support, can punch holes through teams after a QD. And Volc is the easiest thing to set up QD with, as the support it needs is situational and a lot of Pokemon that are really good fit with it (Kang for Fake Out, Swampert / Aegislash for Wide Guard, Lando-T for intimidate, etc).

B+ for a threat that can sweep through teams, has a few answers in the meta (Salamence, Talonflame, Heatran... sounds familiar by any chance?) isn't that crazy, as Volc is like Zard Y as Sylveon is like Mega Gardevoir.

Aptly put.
Volc doesn't quite have Char-Y's raw power, but neither do most special-based Ubers, lol. QD is amazing, but it's hard to set up and kinda needs the setup. Has a nearly identical list of good partners and counters as the Drought dragon, but has serious 4MSS. Volc can also function quite well in Rain, something people often forget, so it's something that can fit into a ton of teams with no Mega slot. Only other remotely viable QD competition is Venomoth and as adorable as it is, and as horrifying as QD boosted Mega Gardevoir or Hydreigon can be, it just doesn't compare to the king of moths :P
B+ is fine, I can't see it in A~ but damn if it isn't as good as Togekiss and Ludicolo. Really have to use Volc more, haven't used since my Khan + Volc + Defiant Empoleon idea fell apart.

 

[tofucocoa]

Made some shifts.

Sableye C+ -> B- : adding this to the category of 'annoying ass pokemon that can easily screw you over but somehow still isn't all that great' next to smeargle and talonlame
P2 B- -> B+ : Cresselia competition, actually OHKOs stuff with Ice Beam. Normal is a better defensive typing than Psychic, but lacks item variety.
Venusaur B -> B- : 100 base SPA does not bode well for a zard partner, since zard already takes care of water types and a fighting type is more suited to take care of ttar (and they get ice punch for landog)
Swampert-Mega C+ -> B- : people like it and it's a rain mode that isn't pooped on by thundurus but hard to build around
Latios B- -> C+ : eh
Gyarados B -> B- : thund poops on it, amoonguss forces it to use saftey goggles if it doesn't want to become useless, but an offensive water seems pretty good right now.
Mamoswine B -> B- : why is this so bad in practice it beats double genie oml
Virizion B+ -> B : eeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhh it's not all that great. easily neutered by intimidate which means lando+kang plays around it very easily. requires life orb to do damage, but at least its close combats aren't redirected by amoong.
Venusaur-Mega A- -> B+ : Megasaur was good a few months ago. Then we rediscovered Kangaskhan. Also, Gardevoir, Charizard, Substitute Heatran/Aegislash, Salamence, Cresselia...........
Escavalier D -> C : ok
Salamence-Mega S -> A+ : The main problem with Salamence is... It's not Kangaskhan. It doesn't have the amazing type synergy with double genies kang has and is easily stopped by bulky waters, particularly Milotic and Rotom-W. But it's still good. But like... It has more weaknesses, which is something Kang doesn't seem to have at the moment.

 

[R-B-Y]

No volcarona? :(

 

[manodelrey]

Made some shifts.


Latios B- -> C+ : eh
Escavalier D -> C : ok
.

http://www.jeffsetter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Comic-Book-Guy.png

 

[nightwolf]

First post on this thread, wanted to nominate two pokemon that I find are out of place in my opinion:

Blaziken B- -> B+ (want A- but it is way to extreme for now)

This thing is way out of place in my opinion. First, I will talk about how it is far better than any other pokemon in B-/B rank. Compared to stuff like garchomp and regular gyarados this thing puts in so much work. Look at the current metagame, the only deterrent to this monster is the rise in AV lando and Azumarill. It can dispatch many of the common threats in the meta. Kang? OHKO, Non-AV lando? OHKO, Amoonguss? No problem, Aegislash? No problem. Heatran? No issues. The sheer amount of OHKOs it can pick makes it a viable candidate for a massive rise. It has its flaws in thunder-wave, azumarill, cresselia and AV lando but that is what keeps it from rising to A rank. B- is just too low for an anti-meta threat like this.

And greninja is not even comparable to blaziken. It can't outspeed scarf lando at +1 and can't even guarantee a OHKO on kangaskhan with low kick. It rarely OHKOs threats even with life orb and in such a fast paced metagame gets KOd easier than blaziken does, even though it has superior coverage.

I'm assuming that you're talking specifically about the mixed attacker set that runs HP Ice to OHKO non-AV Landorus-T, in which case I think there are better mons in B+ through A+ that do a better job at "Fuck you Landorus" that don't have to lower their defenses to do a lot of damage or even KO it. Blaziken also has the very real threat of being double focused or straight up dying to multi-target moves.

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Blaziken: 224-266 (144.5 - 171.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And if you go against a landorus kangaskhan lead (one of the most common leads in the meta right now) you're absolutely screwed if you open with blaziken and have to pick your poison with which thing you want to KO because trust me, you're not taking out both without a rage powder or follow me user. Oh and you don't even get a OHKO on mega-kang if landorus is the partner.

-1 84 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 151-179 (83.4 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 84 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 125-148 (69 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Unlike many of the mons in A- to S, there needs to be much more support for the burning chicken than for the others and cannot just be stuck on a team with little to no care.

 

[R-B-Y]

http://www.jeffsetter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Comic-Book-Guy.png

Lol

 

[SlashingScizors]

Sylveon To A+

Reason:This Thing really works well with kang,and not only that,it covers every fairy resistance with hp ground,it hits hard with choice specs hyper voice,and hits the entire tier for neutral or super effective moves,as it is never walled due to its mediocre but great movepool.

Mega Mawlie to A-

I really see no point in putting this mon in B+,since it really deserves to be in A.It has intimidate,which is always good,and it walls kang,which is an extremely important thing.Kang is practically on every VGC team you see,and mawlie comes in handy.It also practically sweeps a whole team with trick room(with proper support,of course)

Hope these suggestions are noticed and some changes are made,but the rest of the ranking seems pretty reasonable.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Sylveon To A+

Reason:This Thing really works well with kang,and not only that,it covers every fairy resistance with hp ground,it hits hard with choice specs hyper voice,and hits the entire tier for neutral or super effective moves,as it is never walled due to its mediocre but great movepool.

Fairy + Ground is walled by Charizard-Y, Gengar, Talonflame, Moltres, Rotom-H, Crobat, Weezing, Bronzong, Skarmory, and probably a few other odd things.
Fairy + Ground + Psychic, is Skarmory and Bronzong again. Char-Y cares about boosted Psyshocks a bit, but considering superior Speed Charizard will probably KO you first.
Specs, one must simply click "Wide Guard". Pixie Plate is, imo, much better as it allows Sylveon to truly function without being locked into Hyper Voice against Char-Y + Venusaur, and allows Protect / Helping Hand support against things like Mega Metagross.

Main issue with Sylveon is not power or coverage; poor Speed and 'just barely enough Def to function' leaves it at the mercy of things like AV Landog, Mega Khan, Metagross, Bisharp, and pretty much any strong, non-resisted physical attack will maim it. Aegislash is also rather common and gives -3 fucks about anything Sylveon can do, and Sylveon even with Specs Shadow Ball runs the risk of simply activating Weakness Policy and creating a massive immediate threat that cannot be ignored. Large number of Fire and Steel types are a bitch; Entei may be weak to HP Ground but it really doesn't care.

imo Sylveon is fine where it is. It once stood in the highest echelon of S ranked mons, but it has fallen into place now.

edit: plus, Mega Gardevoir has been on a recent, and strong, rise, and is basically Sylveon with usable Speed and Psychic STAB to demolish Venusaur and such so much better.

 

[Yugi]

Sylveon To A+

Reason:This Thing really works well with kang,and not only that,it covers every fairy resistance with hp ground,it hits hard with choice specs hyper voice,and hits the entire tier for neutral or super effective moves,as it is never walled due to its mediocre but great movepool.

Mega Mawlie to A-

I really see no point in putting this mon in B+,since it really deserves to be in A.It has intimidate,which is always good,and it walls kang,which is an extremely important thing.Kang is practically on every VGC team you see,and mawlie comes in handy.It also practically sweeps a whole team with trick room(with proper support,of course)

Hope these suggestions are noticed and some changes are made,but the rest of the ranking seems pretty reasonable.

I am going to have to disagree with both.My reasoning is this.
Sylveon.Sylveon isnt a fantastic pokemon in this metagame but it is a great one.It certainly covers some of his weaknesses with Hidden Power ground + HV + psyshock but they really dont do that much damage.Due to the rise in popularity of Gardevoir,a better fairy IMO and char y sylveon is quite useless.Heatran walls the specs set unless its locked into to HP ground.Also Kang destroys Sylveon.And Aegis is the Nr.1 Counter to Sylveon with HP ground or no HP ground.

As for Mawile.Allthough it is my favourite mega it doesn t have a great place in this metagame due to the fact that heatran + zard y exist and its very hard to deal with them even with right support.Also landorus t destroys it.I nominated mawile for A- a while back but i dont think the metagame has changed enough and i think that the one who opposed me was right about why it shouldnt be.

 

[Steven Stone]

Ok guys, so i was discussing stuff with LightCore and i decided to re-check the viability rankings yet again, and for what we came as conclusion, I would like to nominate Azumarill to at least A, ideally A+. Ok, let's back up this with its current shine at literally every Fall Regional. Azumarill wasn't only a really common Pokemon in these teams, but also, it has been really consistent since the very existence of Japan Sand, back in June / July season. Azumarill's best set by far right now is the Belly Drum set, and Azumarill has a really strong priority move capable of OHKOing bulky Mega Charizard Y under sun, even after 1 Intimidate from Landorus-T after the Belly Drum. Play Rough is a strong Fairy-type move, but besides nuking, it doesn't really hit much of the metagame bar Dragon-types such as Mega Salamence and Fighting-types such as Scrafty. Knock Off, the other Azumarill filler option, allows you to hit the most common Azumarill switch-in, Amoonguss, for neutral damage and OHKO it after a Belly Drum. You also hit everything else pretty hard; Pokemon like Rotom-W won't appreciate the Knock Off either.

But all these are based on the fact that Azumarill does get a Belly Drum off, but to be quite honest, getting it off with Azumarill's most common partners isn't that difficult. In fact, is rather easy. Let's take a look at Season 12 of Battle Spot to see what were Azumarill's most common partners:

1. Kangaskhan: The Fake Out support Kangaskhan offers plus the offensive pressure it exerts puts inmediate pressure on both of the Pokemon the opponent has, meaning that he either has to get rid of that Kangaskhan and let a +6 Azumarill stick around a little bit longer OR he has to deal with Azumarill which isn't really a Pokemon you usually can OHKO and leave Kangaskhan intact.
2. Landorus-T: It's Landorus-T. Can't say much about this one but Electric inmunity + Intimidate does help the blue rabbit to set up.
3. Amoonguss: Azumarill + Amoonguss isn't something people isn't aware of rn. Amoonguss exerts Spore pressure while it provides redirection so Azumarill gets its Belly Drum with more safety. Plus it kinda annoys non-Safety Goggles Thundurus (if you ask if that exist, i'll legit kill you. Like, Shoma used it...).
4. Thundurus: Don't have logic reasoning for this one but this REALLY solid argument: Blame CHALK
5. Salamence: The second best Mega Evolution (it seems like it, may be a bit of room for debate) is a good pairing for Azu because it has Intimidate pre-mega and Fairy + Steel + Dragon cores are always nice. They share some kind of issue with bulky waters but that's pretty much it.

Well, so that's for Azu, which is a Pokemon that's marking the metagame atm and can't be left in the same ranking that Pokemon like Hydreigon and Arcanine: while they are good Pokemon, they don't define the metagame like Azumarill is doing right now.

Ok, some other nominations would be:

Cresselia: A+ -> A. Cresselia is an amazing Pokemon as it is right now, but its lack of offensive pressure plus the lack of a really relevant supportive option makes Cresselia not THAT good. Cresselia as support Pokemon isn't able to provide such a crucial support like the other 2 supportive Pokemon in A+, Thundurus and Amoonguss, do. Cresselia has also been replaced by other Pokemon in CHALK, and most of them are also in A rank: Sylveon, Clefable and Milotic have a relatively similar role to Cresselia in some teams, explaining why a lot of CHALK teams have replaced the the former queen of VGC for these 3.
Hariyama: B -> B-. Dude, poor Hariyama is in a tough spot as it is right now. Being a pretty one dimentional Pokemon, Hariyama's only niche over the other 2 giant Fighting-types in the VGC metagame (these would be Conkeldurr and Scrafty) is Close Combat, and the defense drop doesn't truly let this really bulky Pokemon to do some of the assigned roles that it is given. Hariyama is often beated by Kangaskhan after chip damage, Intimidate from Landorus-T holds it back, Assault Vest being one of the few options Hariyama has to succeed in the metagame, and this tool is easily nullified by its own Close Combat, relies on Trick Room to work properly (like, literally. Have you ever seen a Hariyama outside of Trick Room? Like, at least Ludicolo can be used on some teams as an anti-rain tool) and some of the metagame Pokemon such as Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Salamence leaves it more threatened than in the last time. Hariyama has lost its shine, and i've been laddering entire weeks without seeing one.

For now, that's it. I'm getting myself involved with Volcarona because this thing is way too common right now and i'm considering the possibility of raising it.

 

[R-B-Y]

Ok guys, so i was discussing stuff with LightCore and i decided to re-check the viability rankings yet again, and for what we came as conclusion, I would like to nominate Azumarill to at least A, ideally A+. Ok, let's back up this with its current shine at literally every Fall Regional. Azumarill wasn't only a really common Pokemon in these teams, but also, it has been really consistent since the very existence of Japan Sand, back in June / July season. Azumarill's best set by far right now is the Belly Drum set, and Azumarill has a really strong priority move capable of OHKOing bulky Mega Charizard Y under sun, even after 1 Intimidate from Landorus-T after the Belly Drum. Play Rough is a strong Fairy-type move, but besides nuking, it doesn't really hit much of the metagame bar Dragon-types such as Mega Salamence and Fighting-types such as Scrafty. Knock Off, the other Azumarill filler option, allows you to hit the most common Azumarill switch-in, Amoonguss, for neutral damage and OHKO it after a Belly Drum. You also hit everything else pretty hard; Pokemon like Rotom-W won't appreciate the Knock Off either.

But all these are based on the fact that Azumarill does get a Belly Drum off, but to be quite honest, getting it off with Azumarill's most common partners isn't that difficult. In fact, is rather easy. Let's take a look at Season 12 of Battle Spot to see what were Azumarill's most common partners:

1. Kangaskhan: The Fake Out support Kangaskhan offers plus the offensive pressure it exerts puts inmediate pressure on both of the Pokemon the opponent has, meaning that he either has to get rid of that Kangaskhan and let a +6 Azumarill stick around a little bit longer OR he has to deal with Azumarill which isn't really a Pokemon you usually can OHKO and leave Kangaskhan intact.
2. Landorus-T: It's Landorus-T. Can't say much about this one but Electric inmunity + Intimidate does help the blue rabbit to set up.
3. Amoonguss: Azumarill + Amoonguss isn't something people isn't aware of rn. Amoonguss exerts Spore pressure while it provides redirection so Azumarill gets its Belly Drum with more safety. Plus it kinda annoys non-Safety Goggles Thundurus (if you ask if that exist, i'll legit kill you. Like, Shoma used it...).
4. Thundurus: Don't have logic reasoning for this one but this REALLY solid argument: Blame CHALK
5. Salamence: The second best Mega Evolution (it seems like it, may be a bit of room for debate) is a good pairing for Azu because it has Intimidate pre-mega and Fairy + Steel + Dragon cores are always nice. They share some kind of issue with bulky waters but that's pretty much it.

Well, so that's for Azu, which is a Pokemon that's marking the metagame atm and can't be left in the same ranking that Pokemon like Hydreigon and Arcanine: while they are good Pokemon, they don't define the metagame like Azumarill is doing right now.

Ok, some other nominations would be:

Cresselia: A+ -> A. Cresselia is an amazing Pokemon as it is right now, but its lack of offensive pressure plus the lack of a really relevant supportive option makes Cresselia not THAT good. Cresselia as support Pokemon isn't able to provide such a crucial support like the other 2 supportive Pokemon in A+, Thundurus and Aegislash, do. Cresselia has also been replaced by other Pokemon in CHALK, and most of them are also in A rank: Sylveon, Clefable and Milotic have a relatively similar role to Cresselia in some teams, explaining why a lot of CHALK teams have replaced the the former queen of VGC for these 3.
Hariyama: B -> B-. Dude, poor Hariyama is in a tough spot as it is right now. Being a pretty one dimentional Pokemon, Hariyama's only niche over the other 2 giant Fighting-types in the VGC metagame (these would be Conkeldurr and Scrafty) is Close Combat, and the defense drop doesn't truly let this really bulky Pokemon to do some of the assigned roles that it is given. Hariyama is often beated by Kangaskhan after chip damage, Intimidate from Landorus-T holds it back, Assault Vest being one of the few options Hariyama has to succeed in the metagame, and this tool is easily nullified by its own Close Combat, relies on Trick Room to work properly (like, literally. Have you ever seen a Hariyama outside of Trick Room? Like, at least Ludicolo can be used on some teams as an anti-rain tool) and some of the metagame Pokemon such as Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Salamence leaves it more threatened than in the last time. Hariyama has lost its shine, and i've been laddering entire weeks without seeing one.

For now, that's it. I'm getting myself involved with Volcarona because this thing is way too common right now and i'm considering the possibility of raising it.

Completely agree. Azumarill is great in the present metagame.
I also never use cresselia anywhere, because of its inability to do anything. Most times another poke can do it better.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Char-Y has steadily been going down, with Heatran going up (usually duking it out for #3 of the top twelve with Thundurus), Salamence has gone up a bit, and Gardevoir has overtaken Charizard on the top 12 too. Going by PGL stats that is.
Azumarill... I should try, actually. I run Venusaur almost all the time so it's hard to gauge what it's like to... not have a sun boosted Venusaur in front of it. lol. But yes, I see no reason to bump it up to A at least.

imo yes, Salamence is the second best Mega right now. As much as I cringe to say it, Gardevoir may be #3 atm.
Bulky waters, well, all bar Rotom-W do much less to Azumarill than Azumarill does to them.

Cress... CM + Expert Belt sets are fucking annoying and it's not like Cresselia doesn't get free turns by virtue of just being ignored in favor of murdering its partner. It's annoying but not too hard to manuver around, A is fine. Great supporter, pretty much best Speed controller in the game, only thing it lacks is Tailwind. Just needs Thundy repellent.

Two things: Bisharp, and Hariyama.
1) Does anyone remember the last Bisharp they saw, nevermind the last one that was actually threatening? And it's still A-? B+, B imo. It doesn't suck, but much like Swampert it needs support and is absolute dead weight in a fair few circumstances thanks to its Speed and the dependancy on Sucker Punch.
2) Hariyama is not on par with Virizion, Volcarona, Swampert, Mega Metagross, and Garchomp. It cannot function outside TR. Amazingly strong CC is cool, and movepool is nice, but the meta really hates on it right now. Do drop it. Much like Machamp, it has pretty much one niche, but Scrafty puts a lot of fog over Hariyama. B-, maybe C+ if you're feeling harsh. PLus, let's think of every common redirector: Clefairy, Clefable, Amoonguss, Togekiss, and Volcarona make Hariyama nearly useless.

tl;dr: Azumarill up, Bisharp and Hariyama down. Cress I don't really care either way, as long it stays above B+.