Resource VGC: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer

ck49 said:
There's some stuff in the works, keep an eye out for it. Teambuilding is hard because we don't really know what the meta looks like yet, it'll be easier after we see the top teams from Berlin Internats. If you're looking for usage stats and sample teams, this is a good site to check out (although it's in Spanish). I'd suggest starting with one of those teams and adjusting it as you get comfortable with it and the meta, and then maybe start building once we have a more concrete idea of what to look for.
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OK thanks for the advice. I've never used Primals/Mega Ray/etc and it looks like many of the potentially good Pokemons are quite different than Sun/Moon series. I'll likely get my ass handed to me for the first while regardless of my prep.

A couple of what are probably dumb questions:
If Ray Mega Evolves that means no other Poke on your team can right?
And, would Throat Chop not provide more utility than Darkest Lariat on Incin? (most sample teams I've seen are running Darkest Lariat or Snarl depending on team). Hyper Voice, Perish song, etc would be nice to shut down.
And viable TR setters; looks like Staka out - Bronzong in? Any reason for this other than Levitate?
 
FaintingShinies said:
OK thanks for the advice. I've never used Primals/Mega Ray/etc and it looks like many of the potentially good Pokemons are quite different than Sun/Moon series. I'll likely get my ass handed to me for the first while regardless of my prep.

A couple of what are probably dumb questions:
If Ray Mega Evolves that means no other Poke on your team can right? - Yes, only one Mega per game.
And, would Throat Chop not provide more utility than Darkest Lariat on Incin? (most sample teams I've seen are running Darkest Lariat or Snarl depending on team). Hyper Voice, Perish song, etc would be nice to shut down. - Its mostly for stopping opposing Roar users from phazing away Xern's boosts, although Darkest Lariat does have a slightly higher BP and can let Incin run Malicious Moonsault to OHKO Lunala through Shadow Shield
And viable TR setters; looks like Staka out - Bronzong in? Any reason for this other than Levitate? - I expect Staka to still be rather popular as an offensive TR setter that checks Yveltal/Xern in Ultra. That being said, Staka and Bronzong are actually really really different, but kinda similar at the same time. They're similar in the sense that they're both fat steels that can check Xern rather well under Trick Room. However Staka is a more offensive oriented Trick Room setter and isn't quite as good as Bronzong when it comes to giving support under trick room due to its movepool and defensive typing (and the fact that it usually wants dual STABs for damage). Bronzong on the other hand can function as a pure support mon as it has access to a wider range of support moves and doesnt quite have the stats to back it up for an offensive role, although it does run Gyro Ball on certain teams to help with the Xern matchup. Hope this answers your question!
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FaintingShinies said:
And viable TR setters; looks like Staka out - Bronzong in? Any reason for this other than Levitate?
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In addition to what yuichii said, bronzong also has useful moves that stakataka doesn't, namely Hypnosis. (They both also learn Gravity but bronzong is a better user of it.) Z-Trick Room gives +1 Accuracy, which makes Hypnosis much more accurate, and a slow primal groudon under trick room with perfectly accurate Precipice Blades that hit things normally immune to it can be very scary to face.

Bronzong is also a better user of Skill Swap, which is a very useful tool for primal weather control. Research how primal weathers work if you haven't already, they act very differently from normal weathers. Also because a levitating primal kyogre in rain is fun.
 
FaintingShinies said:
And, would Throat Chop not provide more utility than Darkest Lariat on Incin?
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I think your other questions have been answered but along with throat chop's ability to stop roar/snarl/hyper voice, it also doesn't ignore Mega Ray's Defense drops from Dragon's ascent. I think a lot of people are starting to use that over Lariat.
 
Best nature for the shiny Tapu Bulu event giveaway? I was going to go with adamant but I'm curious about careful nature... though I don't want the specially bulky set to just be a phase and be stuck with a careful Bulu
 
ck49 said:
I think your other questions have been answered but along with throat chop's ability to stop roar/snarl/hyper voice, it also doesn't ignore Mega Ray's Defense drops from Dragon's ascent. I think a lot of people are starting to use that over Lariat.
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ck49 said:
I think your other questions have been answered but along with throat chop's ability to stop roar/snarl/hyper voice, it also doesn't ignore Mega Ray's Defense drops from Dragon's ascent. I think a lot of people are starting to use that over Lariat.
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Hey thanks for the advice. I've seen some sample teams now and have bred/built the pretty common RayOgre team. I'm a little apprehensive at both Ray and M-Gengar being fragile as I tend to play better with bulk but I'll see how it works out as a starting point
 
Marzbar said:
Best nature for the shiny Tapu Bulu event giveaway? I was going to go with adamant but I'm curious about careful nature... though I don't want the specially bulky set to just be a phase and be stuck with a careful Bulu
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In terms of flexibility adamant is the best yeah, thing to keep in mind is you cant really run scarf effectively with Adamant, and careful being better for the bulkier sets (adamant is still passable for this)- though Adamant has a couple other sets it functions best with for example Z move.
 
How often should I expect to see HP Fire on Tapu Lele (any set, but in particular the Scarf set) in the Ultra series?

EDIT: Also, what's about the most Speed and Special Defense investment that I can reasonably expect to see on a Primal Kyogre?
 
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Hello, i was looking at the VR for this tier and i was wondering what prevents ho-oh from being a good pick or even just niche. My perspective of how damage/matchups would actually play out may be flawed cause i dont really play vgc or ubers but at a glance it seemed like ho-oh is a mon that could take advantage of xern and groudon, and regenerator would be good in the uturn/primal pivoting/posturing. I would be very interested to know if its mainly opportunity cost or some glaring weakness i dont see or just ho-oh being an unexplored mon.
 
alive said:
Hello, i was looking at the VR for this tier and i was wondering what prevents ho-oh from being a good pick or even just niche. My perspective of how damage/matchups would actually play out may be flawed cause i dont really play vgc or ubers but at a glance it seemed like ho-oh is a mon that could take advantage of xern and groudon, and regenerator would be good in the uturn/primal pivoting/posturing. I would be very interested to know if its mainly opportunity cost or some glaring weakness i dont see or just ho-oh being an unexplored mon.
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In Sun and Moon series, Ho-Oh did have a niche, to the point where some Groudon started running Rock moves just to avoid being walled by it. A big plus was that Sacred Fire was able to burn Groudon (no longer possible now that it's always Primal, so it can't do much to Groudon in return), and also didn't just dissipate if Kyogre was around (also, it could be bulky enough to tank hits from Kyogre, while Primal Kyogre is just too powerful). It's a decent-ish Xerneas check defensively but it doesn't do much else, especially with so many Xerneas being bulky and Incineroar Intimidate-cycling next to Xern.

One important thing to note, Regenerator is the HA and is available from Dream Radar only. Pokémon caught before Gen 7 aren't allowed in VGC, so Pressure is mandatory.
 
After gen 4, have there ever been any official formats without team preview? Or did all the VGCs, BS, GBU, etc all have team preview?
 
sumwun said:
After gen 4, have there ever been any official formats without team preview? Or did all the VGCs, BS, GBU, etc all have team preview?
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I don't think I've ever seen a cartridge format ever skip team preview entirely, even all of the weird little battle spot metas. The closest was where you only had 1 second for team preview for a competition where you were only allowed to use either a single pikachu or eevee (so team preview is essentially useless), which makes me think that it isn't even possible to create a cartridge format without team preview. Granted, that was in gen 7, and maybe that ability has been programmed into swsh, but I doubt it.
 
I want to use a team built around both trick room and wonder room. I've gotten a few wins with the team I have (grimmsnarl, hatterene, bronzong, appletun, araquanid, rhydon) but i want to make sure that im winning more than im losing. If i give stats and items of the mons, would someone be willing to help me brainstorm and tweak so that this team is actually somewhat viable? i wouldnt be opposed to switching some out or evolving the rhydon, but i dont really know where to go from where i am

and please dont just tell me "it isnt worth it, just run regular trick room" thats not the point here.
 
Sporiope said:
I want to use a team built around both trick room and wonder room. I've gotten a few wins with the team I have (grimmsnarl, hatterene, bronzong, appletun, araquanid, rhydon) but i want to make sure that im winning more than im losing. If i give stats and items of the mons, would someone be willing to help me brainstorm and tweak so that this team is actually somewhat viable? i wouldnt be opposed to switching some out or evolving the rhydon, but i dont really know where to go from where i am

and please dont just tell me "it isnt worth it, just run regular trick room" thats not the point here.
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What are you trying to accomplish with the wonder room?
 
Pyritie said:
What are you trying to accomplish with the wonder room?
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Appletun and Bronzong have equal def and Sp Def stats, so they stay the same whether wonder room is up or not.
Araquanid and Grimmsnarl are Maxed in Sp Def
Hatterene and Rhydon are maxed in Def

Basically, with prankster grimm (or bronzong/araquanid after trick room) wonder room can help me switch my own def stats to tank certain hits, while hitting back extremely hard on opponents who've invested in one def stat more than the other, particularly with a super effective move.

to use some examples of what ive been able to do so far while wonder room is up in ranked:
OHKO'd both a duralon and torkoal with a single earthquake from rhydon
have said rhydon tank a charizard's max overgrowth
take down a galar-corsola (with eviolite) that was maxed in def down with a single (physical) max geyser
have my (sp def invested) grimmsnarl tank an iron head from a copperaja, then ko said copperaja with stomping tantrum

I know it's possible for it to be good, but i want it to be even better than it is now. (win loss record is 6 to 4 so far) i just don't know where to go from here
 
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Sporiope said:
Appletun and Bronzong have equal def and Sp Def stats, so they stay the same whether wonder room is up or not.
Araquanid and Grimmsnarl are Maxed in Sp Def
Hatterene and Rhydon are maxed in Def

Basically, with prankster grimm (or bronzong/araquanid after trick room) wonder room can help me switch my own def stats to tank certain hits, while hitting back extremely hard on opponents who've invested in one def stat more than the other, particularly with a super effective move.

to use some examples of what ive been able to do so far while wonder room is up in ranked:
OHKO'd both a duralon and torkoal with a single earthquake from rhydon
have said rhydon tank a charizard's max overgrowth
take down a galar-corsola (with eviolite) that was maxed in def down with a single (physical) max geyser
have my (sp def invested) grimmsnarl tank an iron head from a copperaja, then ko said copperaja with stomping tantrum

I know it's possible for it to be good, but i want it to be even better than it is now. (win loss record is 6 to 4 so far) i just don't know where to go from here
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You could try posting the team in the Rate My Teams forum
 
Sporiope said:
but i want to make sure that im winning more than im losing...

and please dont just tell me "it isnt worth it, just run regular trick room" thats not the point here
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Pick one. Trick room is already gimmicky enough as it is, wonder room is even gimmickier. The teams that are considered top tier, aren't because they have a strong gimmick. It's because they have strong win conditions no matter the situation.

The win condition of a theoretical double room team is, have both up and take advantage of an opponent who doesn't give their pokemon defensive EVs.

Your lose conditions are; going up against fellow trick room or people who have counters to trick room, going up against hyper aggressive teams that will take advantage of you taking 1 or more turns setting up your gimmicks, and not having both rooms up.

Also the point of the thread isn't to ask for advice while telling people not to give you a specific response that you have seemingly been given elsewhere, just because you don't want to hear it.
 
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nightwolf said:
Pick one. Trick room is already gimmicky enough as it is, wonder room is even gimmickier. The teams that are considered top tier, aren't because they have a strong gimmick. It's because they have strong win conditions no matter the situation.

The win condition of a theoretical double room team is, have both up and take advantage of an opponent who doesn't give their pokemon defensive EVs.

Your lose conditions are; going up against fellow trick room or people who have counters to trick room, going up against hyper aggressive teams that will take advantage of you taking 1 or more turns setting up your gimmicks, and not having both rooms up.

Also the point of the thread isn't to ask for advice while telling people not to give you a specific response that you have seemingly been given elsewhere, just because you don't want to hear it.
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the question was how can i improve the team so that the gimmicks can work fluidly together. not "should i or should i not continue with this team".
your answer was one that i was specifically trying to avoid by making the last statement because if i wanted to run regular trick room, or try to create a purely wonder room based team, then i'd do it.

i have a core that meshes together well; it's just a matter of dealing with what comes my way. the wonder room isnt just to take advantage of the enemy's lacking defensive EVs, its to have a way to let my mon's tank damage from any kind of incoming source, and being able to switch it when the need arises. I believe that trick room helps facilitate that, with many mons with high defensive stats having naturally low speed, and thats why only one of my mons (the most defensive one) knows both.

i didnt ask what i needed to do to win; i asked what i need to do to improve the current concept of the team as a whole.
your answer is not applicable to my question, nor does it answer it. I respectfully ask that if you don't have constructive criticism that can answer that question, that you not answer it.
 
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Sporiope said:
the question was how can i improve the team so that the gimmicks can work fluidly together. not "should i or should i not continue with this team".
your answer was one that i was specifically trying to avoid by making the last statement because if i wanted to run regular trick room, or try to create a purely wonder room based team, then i'd do it.

i have a core that meshes together well; it's just a matter of dealing with what comes my way. the wonder room isnt just to take advantage of the enemy's lacking defensive EVs, its to have a way to let my mon's tank damage from any kind of incoming source, and being able to switch it when the need arises. I believe that trick room helps facilitate that, and thats why only one of my mons (the most defensive one) knows both.

i didnt ask what i needed to do to win; i asked what i need to do to improve the current concept of the team as a whole.
your answer is not applicable to my question, nor does it answer it. I respectfully ask that if you don't have constructive criticism that can answer that question, that you not answer it.
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Well 1. Rather hard to offer a way to improve a team when you didn't even offer up what you were looking to improve on in your initial post. What are you struggling against? What have you found to be not pulling its weight? 2. Just because you don't like the answer you're given, doesn't mean it isn't constructive criticism.
 
nightwolf said:
Well 1. Rather hard to offer a way to improve a team when you didn't even offer up what you were looking to improve on in your initial post. What are you struggling against? What have you found to be not pulling its weight? 2. Just because you don't like the answer you're given, doesn't mean it isn't constructive criticism.
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i posted the team in RMT in detail. lets take this there if we're gonna go anywhere with it at all
 
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