VGC VGC noob looking for Trick Room advice

sprigatonni_

sprigatonni_

Hello everyone! I've been watching VGC content for a while but have only recently decided to get into actually playing games. I found a pretty simple looking trick room team and just started playing games. and I was hoping for some pointers on the team and where it can improve.

Calyrex-Ice @ Life Orb
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- High Horsepower
- Glacial Lance
- Protect
- Trick Room

Calyrex-Ice is my main method of winning games because of the absurd power of Glacial Lance. I'm not sure if it needs the extra help from life orb, but I think the damage boost helps in some cases, and it never feels like I lose too much HP thanks to the EV investment. I find myself totally walled by things like Zamazenta-C paired with pokemon that use will o' wisp, though, even with High Horsepower.

Indeedee-F @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Heal Pulse
- Follow Me
- Helping Hand

I think Indeedee is the best support that Calyrex gets, at least from what little research I've done, having terrain control with Psychic Surge usually gives me an answer into opposing Miraidon but sometimes it's a bit tricky to maneuver around. I'm not too sure how common having trick room and heal pulse is, but I find that those two moves really help out Calyrex by letting me keep Calyrex safe with protect as Indeedee sets up trick room, and heal pulse keeps Calyrex healthy after Life Orb, as well as the rest of my team. I lose outright to taunts from Flutter Mane though, and I really struggle to play around that.

Incineroar @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Parting Shot
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off

I've seen what the cat can do, and I think I'd be silly not to have it on a team where I switch around really often. Fake out is pretty shaky though, since Indeedee outright blocks it with psychic terrain, though I'm not sure if its worth replacing the move for something like Taunt to further disrupt or go for a damaging move like Close Combat to fight off any Zamazenta-C or tera dark Flutter Mane. I think this is the pokemon I bring to every fight, though I'm not sure if that's the best.

Hatterene @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Psychic Noise
- Mystical Fire

Hatterene is the team member I'm most iffy on. I have it on the team since I remember it to be a strong trick room sweeper from when i played doubles in SS, but I don't find myself bringing it often to battles. It does good damage and Magic Bounce is a helpful ability to have in the back, but i find Hatterene hard to safely pivot into where it will be useful. I'm not sure what other pokemon would slot in here better, but I don't feel like Hatterene is the right fit for my team.

Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Overheat
- Rapid Spin
- Eruption
- Will-O-Wisp

Torkoal is super useful and I bring it very often, especially against Kyogre teams to pressure weather control. Torkoal is incredibly strong as a tera fire sweeper in the sun with eruption, but also as a switch-in nuke for pokemon on the other side, and really helps me check Zamazenta-C if I use it carefully. Though, i'm not so good as to safely bring it in all the time, so I don't think I'm getting the most out of it. I rarely find a good use for Rapid Spin and wonder if there is a better alternative for damage, coverage, or support.

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Prism Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 176 HP / 76 Atk / 204 Def / 52 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Photon Geyser
- Sunsteel Strike
- Tera Blast
- Swords Dance

Probably the weirdest pokemon I've ever tried to slot into a trick room team, but I've found it actually works really well. Against Zamazenta-C it threatens with tera fire Tera Blast and combos well with Torkoal's drought, and also works as a lead with Indeedee if i decide to play an anti-trick room setup and leave Calyrex behind. It's main strength comes from setting up with Swords Dance and playing both sides, since it is slow enough to work against speed-control teams under trick room, but also fast enough to be able to outspeed trick room teams with Indeedee's counter-trick room.

I find myself struggling the most against Zamazenta-C and Miraidon teams, I usually end up overpowered and stalled out of trick room. I'd really appreciate any tips and suggestions. Thanks a bunch in advance!
 
If Zamazenta and Miraidon are giving you trouble, maybe replace Necrozma with a Miraidon and Hatterene with a choice scarf Urshifu to have an out of trick room mode to stop these teams. Miraidon matches well into Zamazenta, and Urshifu can out speed and OHKO Miraidon with ice spinner (unless it teras). try it out and see if this works for you.
 
executeorder66withfries said:
If Zamazenta and Miraidon are giving you trouble, maybe replace Necrozma with a Miraidon and Hatterene with a choice scarf Urshifu to have an out of trick room mode to stop these teams. Miraidon matches well into Zamazenta, and Urshifu can out speed and OHKO Miraidon with ice spinner (unless it teras). try it out and see if this works for you.
Click to expand...
did it work??
 
I think one of the biggest things that stands out to me is that you can optimize your EVs. With the way they work at level 50 the first 4 raise a stat and then it takes 8 more points from there, so starts with 4 and then the next is 12. Calyrex-Ice has 248 HP and 8 Sp. Def, instead of 252 in HP with 4 in Sp. Def or 244 HP and 12 Sp. Def.

I also think since you bring up that you don't get much use out of Rapid Spin on Torkoal, my other initial impression was around the team feeling to me as if it were a team made for singles. You have Heavy Duty Boots on Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, but entry hazards just aren't a common thing in VGC. Torkoal having Heat Rock I don't think really is a VGC thing either.

This is how I might build a team using the same 6 Pokémon: https://pokepast.es/5b4ab8636ee7be7a

I think with Trick Room you'll only have so many turns that you get to use it and since VGC games are shorter on average then it's worth it to make some of the sets more offensive..

:Torkoal: Changed the nature to Modest, invested 196 EVs into Sp. Atk (enough to hit the bump), and Gave it Charcoal. Basically just a hard hitting fire type special attacker in sun with Eruption and then Heat Wave for when it gets low HP. Using Earth Power to hit opposing fire types and rock types that resist your fire STAB moves, although it could be something like Solar Beam to hit water types. Also using Protect because you only have protect on CIR, but protect is a very important move in VGC with Fake Out Pokémon and to protect your Pokémon if you think they'll double attack into it, so some would say it's the most important move in double battles.

:Hatterene: Similar to Torkoal I'd want it to be another hard hitting special attacker rather than being so bulky with it being able to spam expanding force in psychic terrain. Also with how the team is built around Trick Room having another setter for it wouldn't hurt.

:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: Since Heavy Duty Boots isn't useful in VGC I think it's best to give it Clear Amulet to stop Intimidate from lowering your attack. EVs changed to make it more offensive. Maybe could use a Weakness Policy set instead or something.

:Indeedee-F: Honestly I just don't think you need Tera Ghost when Psychic Terrain will block Fake Out as the biggest thing you'd want to stop by running Tera Ghost on a Pokémon, as well as it's not weak to fighting types, but since Indeedee is weak to Dark then it's not good defensively, so Fairy Tera will help against the Dark types and also could work better into Miraidon being immune to Draco Meteor.

:Calyrex-Ice: Just threw on the Leftovers Leech Seed set since Dusk Mane has the Clear Amulet that you'd normally run on this and I think it's at least better than Life Orb on this specific Pokémon.

However, knowing you want to replace Hatterene, I think an alternative option could be using Ursaluna-Bloodmoon as it'd provide another special attacker usable under Trick Room (this might mean making Dusk Mane a Trick Room setter since for such a hard trick room team 3 setters really are just recommended). I also think if you're willing to replace Dusk Mane as your restricted then Dawn Wings could fill the same role as a Pokémon to set Trick Room next to Indeedee and then spam Expanding Force in psychic terrain. Lunala would be the most standard of Trick Room restricted too if you want to use it instead as well. Then with Lunala or Dawn Wings in the Hatterene spot you replace Dusk Mane for Flame Orb Guts Ursaluna as a powerful non-restricted physical sweeper under TR.

Those are just my personal preferences at least.

Ursaluna-BM, CA CIR, and WP Dusk Mane with TR: https://pokepast.es/1393715c297b51b1
NDW + Flame Orb Ursaluna: https://pokepast.es/eaf6c0d8816240df
Lunala Version: https://pokepast.es/20107899ede4d6ac
 
SoulBadguy0408 said:
I think one of the biggest things that stands out to me is that you can optimize your EVs. With the way they work at level 50 the first 4 raise a stat and then it takes 8 more points from there, so starts with 4 and then the next is 12. Calyrex-Ice has 248 HP and 8 Sp. Def, instead of 252 in HP with 4 in Sp. Def or 244 HP and 12 Sp. Def.

I also think since you bring up that you don't get much use out of Rapid Spin on Torkoal, my other initial impression was around the team feeling to me as if it were a team made for singles. You have Heavy Duty Boots on Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, but entry hazards just aren't a common thing in VGC. Torkoal having Heat Rock I don't think really is a VGC thing either.

This is how I might build a team using the same 6 Pokémon: https://pokepast.es/5b4ab8636ee7be7a

I think with Trick Room you'll only have so many turns that you get to use it and since VGC games are shorter on average then it's worth it to make some of the sets more offensive..

:Torkoal: Changed the nature to Modest, invested 196 EVs into Sp. Atk (enough to hit the bump), and Gave it Charcoal. Basically just a hard hitting fire type special attacker in sun with Eruption and then Heat Wave for when it gets low HP. Using Earth Power to hit opposing fire types and rock types that resist your fire STAB moves, although it could be something like Solar Beam to hit water types. Also using Protect because you only have protect on CIR, but protect is a very important move in VGC with Fake Out Pokémon and to protect your Pokémon if you think they'll double attack into it, so some would say it's the most important move in double battles.

:Hatterene: Similar to Torkoal I'd want it to be another hard hitting special attacker rather than being so bulky with it being able to spam expanding force in psychic terrain. Also with how the team is built around Trick Room having another setter for it wouldn't hurt.

:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: Since Heavy Duty Boots isn't useful in VGC I think it's best to give it Clear Amulet to stop Intimidate from lowering your attack. EVs changed to make it more offensive. Maybe could use a Weakness Policy set instead or something.

:Indeedee-F: Honestly I just don't think you need Tera Ghost when Psychic Terrain will block Fake Out as the biggest thing you'd want to stop by running Tera Ghost on a Pokémon, as well as it's not weak to fighting types, but since Indeedee is weak to Dark then it's not good defensively, so Fairy Tera will help against the Dark types and also could work better into Miraidon being immune to Draco Meteor.

:Calyrex-Ice: Just threw on the Leftovers Leech Seed set since Dusk Mane has the Clear Amulet that you'd normally run on this and I think it's at least better than Life Orb on this specific Pokémon.

However, knowing you want to replace Hatterene, I think an alternative option could be using Ursaluna-Bloodmoon as it'd provide another special attacker usable under Trick Room (this might mean making Dusk Mane a Trick Room setter since for such a hard trick room team 3 setters really are just recommended). I also think if you're willing to replace Dusk Mane as your restricted then Dawn Wings could fill the same role as a Pokémon to set Trick Room next to Indeedee and then spam Expanding Force in psychic terrain. Lunala would be the most standard of Trick Room restricted too if you want to use it instead as well. Then with Lunala or Dawn Wings in the Hatterene spot you replace Dusk Mane for Flame Orb Guts Ursaluna as a powerful non-restricted physical sweeper under TR.

Those are just my personal preferences at least.

Ursaluna-BM, CA CIR, and WP Dusk Mane with TR: https://pokepast.es/1393715c297b51b1
NDW + Flame Orb Ursaluna: https://pokepast.es/eaf6c0d8816240df
Lunala Version: https://pokepast.es/20107899ede4d6ac
Click to expand...
Thanks for the detailed breakdown, there's a lot here that I hadn't even considered while building the team. For Calyrex-Ice's Leech Seed set, is it ever a worry that it might be too frail and go down before having a chance to properly get itself settled, or should I be switching around after setting Leech Seed? I'm currently using a set that executeorder66withfries kindly recommended but I'd also be happy to try out your recommendations. Thanks for the help!

Edit: I forgot to mention that I think I prefer Overheat on Torkoal mainly as a way to play around Wide-Guard, which tends to stop my team's main offensive threats. But, since Torkoal gets Earth Power I can see why it wouldn't be a real problem.
 
Last edited:
executeorder66withfries said:
did it work??
Click to expand...
Generally, I'd say it does work! Having a full anti-trick room setup as opposed to one or two anti-trick room mons really makes a difference. I'm currently using a Choice Band Urshifu and Choice Specs Miraidon set, but I'm still moving around items and moves on Miraidon until I find something I feel most comfortable with. I find that games tend to be decided within the first two moves, as it will depend on taking out my opponent's weather control or lead damaging mon. I find myself in some trouble against Prankster Grimmsnarl using Thunder Wave and positioning around a Miraidon-Zamazenta-C lead on my opponent's side.
 
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