Gen 6 Victim of the Week - ORAS Edition (Week 14 - 3 Attacks Mewtwo-Mega-X)

[yohoE]

Approved by the illustrious Sweep | OP stolen by the kind Aragorn the King
Art by the amazing justinjiaxinghu ​

Every generation is different and the metagame is constantly changing. However there has always been and always will be threats. Whether they are defensive threats or offensive threats, every competent player should have a way to handle top-tier threats. That's where you guys come in! This project aims to gather some of the common top-tier threats in the metagame and find Pokémon that can either check or counter them.

Procedure

1. Every round, I will nominate a Pokémon for discussion. Within one week's time, you guys will have the ability to discuss and nominate various Pokémon that you think can check or maybe even counter the victim of the week.

2. After the deadline, I will choose the top three checks/counters. Should there be a lot of nominations, I will discuss my choices with other skilled players to ensure the selections are not biased and that all nominations have been considered thoroughly.

3. The results will be archived and the process will continue week after week.

Rules

1. When nominating your check/counter please include:

- Name of the Pokémon
- Check or Counter
- Short Description as to why you chose this particular Pokémon
- Set(s) that work well against the victim of the week

2. Follow the definitions for checks, by Aragorn the King, and counters, by MattL:

Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if Pokémon A can win every time when switching into at least one of Pokemon B's attacks, without factoring in hax.

Pokémon A counters Pokémon B if Pokémon A can manually switch into Pokémon B and still win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

3. When giving checks, please follow the advice of alexwolf:

We are not looking for revenge killers, but for checks that are able to switch into the Pokemon in question at least once, and of course counters

4. Check if somebody has reserved a Pokémon before posting.


5. From Wednesday - Friday, each person is limited to nominating ONE Pokemon. From Saturday - Tuesday, you may nominate as many as you want.


6. Helping each-other is encouraged, but please try to be nice!


7. No SHITTY gimmicks.


8. Have Fun!
​

Archive

Archive
Double Dance Primal-Groudon
Checks/Counters: Groudon (WreckDra) Latios (Halcyon.) Flygon (Jibaku)

Calm Mind Primal-Kyogre
Checks/Counters: Ludicolo (DSM01) Palkia (smlj) Rayquaza (Jibaku)

Dragon Dance Mega-Salamence
Checks/Counters: Dialga (Nayrz) Lugia (brokenwings) Skarmory (Mega-Swampert)

Calm Mind Latios

Checks/Counters: Arceus-Dark (ZoroarkForever) Klefki (Steeljackal<3) Aegislash (Hack)

Geomancy Xerneas
Checks/counters: Groudon-Primal (Steeljackal<3) Klefki (PoweredByRevenge) Aegislash (Level 56)

Calm Mind Arceus-Dark

Checks/Counters: Clefable (NotAGymLdr) Arceus-Fairy (based n bad) Ho-Oh (Level 56)

Extreme Killer Arceus-Normal
Checks/Counters: Yveltal (DSM01) Skarmory (based n bad) Clefable (brokenwings) Sableye (Jibaku) Arceus-Ghost (haxiom)

Life Orb Ho-Oh

Checks/Counters: Stealth Rock (PISTOLERO) Arceus-Rock (steelphoenix) Rhyperior (-Leon-)

Life Orb Darkrai

Checks/Counters: Ho-Oh (Mr.378) Klefki (based n bad) Xerneas (Unwanted)

Calm Mind Mega Diancie

Checks/Counters: Ferrothorn (xDesch) Arceus-Ground (Dilwar) Kyogre-Primal (PoweredByRevenge)

Swords Dance Arceus-Ground

Checks/Counters: Kyogre-Primal (Nayrz) Giratina-O (based n bad) Lugia (DSM01)

Calm Mind Mewtwo
Checks/Counters: Sableye-Mega (Dilwar) Wobbufet (xDesch) Aegislash (haxiom)

Life Orb Yveltal

Checks/Counter: Arceus-Fairy (based n bad) Xerneas (haxiom) Arceus-Rock (Level 56)

3 Attack Mega Mewtwo X

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

1 - WreckDra
1 - Halcyon.
3 - Jibaku
1 - smlj
3 - DSM01
2 - Nayrz
1 - Mega-Swampert
2 - brokenwings
1 - Hack
3 - steelphoenix
1 - ZoroarkForever
2 - PoweredByRevenge
3 - Level 56
5 - based n bad
1 - NotAGymLdr
3 - haxiom
1 - PISTOLERO
1 - -Leon-
1 - Unwanted
1 - Mr.378
2 - Dilwar
2 - xDesch

Week 14: 3 Attack Mega-Mewtwo-X

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt / Stone Edge
- Taunt
​

 

[Random Passerby]

Week 1: Who better to start off with other than current king of ORAS Ubers? Primal Groudon!

View attachment 31184
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 120 HP/252 Attack/136 Speed
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Precipe Blades
- Stone Edge

​

Reserving Giratina - Origin as a check.

EDIT : Giving Gira - O to finalninja. Reserving Skarmory instead.

 

[finalninja243]

I'm nominating Giratina-O as a Check to Primal Groudon

Specifically, defensive Giratina-O can switch in with impunity on most of Primal Groudon's attacks, barring a rare +2 Dragon Claw, which still fails to OHKO. It can Defog Stealth Rock from support Primal Groudon Sets as well if needed. Offensive variations of Giratina-O may not have the durability to take repeated assaults from boosted Primal-Groudon, but definitely threaten heavy damage with Draco Meteor. It must be noted that Primal Groudon lacks the ability to hurt Giratina-O without any boosts or without Dragon Claw. However, Primal Groudon may be able to break past Giratina-O with repeated prior damage, especially if Giratina-O is required to check other threats such as Ekiller due to its lack of reliable recover. Lastly, Giratina-O is unable to be trapped by both Gothitelle and Mega Gengar.

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 8 Atk
Naughty Nature

- Defog/Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Draco Meteor
- Roar/Dragon Tail

 

[finalninja243]

Sorry, didn't see Passerby's post when I was writing, my apologies.

 

[Mr.378]

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 200 Def / 132 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Defog
- Ice Beam
- Recover

With Primal Groudon's rise as the best Pokemon in ubers a support Arceus-Ground also becomes viable to defeat Primal Groudon most of the time. It has enough bulk to switch in on any attack and live and then retaliate by outspeeding and killing with a powerful STAB Earth Plate boosted Judgment. Recover is also a very good appeal for using this as a check as it gives longevity and allows for multiple switch ins. The other two moves give it versatility by letting it both it some of it's expected switch-ins and remove entry hazards. The EVs listed here are mostly exploratory as they guarantee that judgment will kill this given Primal Groudon set. The EVs in speed aret here to allow Arceus-Ground to outspeed Base 110s which is useful for picking off weakened Latis with Ice beam. The rest is tossed into defense to let it switch into most Primal Groudons more comfortably. Overall Arceus-Ground is a great Primal Groudon check because of it's reliability, versatility, and longevity.

 

[Random Passerby]

Sorry, didn't see Passerby's post when I was writing, my apologies.

It's cool, man. Since you have written it up, you can have Giratina - O. Reserving Skarmory instead.


Name : Skarmory
Status :Check

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Whirlwind

If Primal Groudon does not carry any Fire moves, Skarmory can come in on any of Primal Groudon moves. Then, Skarmory can proceed to Toxic Primal Groudon, set up Stealth Rock or Roost to recover it's HP so that it can wall Primal Groudon better. Whirlwind is used in the fourth slot to phaze out Primal Groudon or other physical attackers who attempt to stack up boosts. While this makes Skarmory Taunt bait, Skarmory has almost zero offensive presence in Ubers anyway so it is not that bad of a trade-off. Shed Shell allows Skarmory to escape being trapped by Shadow Taggers.

Calculations:
252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 87-103 (26 - 30.8%) -- 14.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Dilwar]

Reserving Lugia as a check.

 

[Halcyon.]

That Giratina-O set doesn't even beat Primal Groudon at all. The only thing you can do is roar it out, but it completely walls you so there's nothing to stop it from coming right back in and Stone Edging until you die. I usually run Dragon Tail Shadow Sneak Draco Meteor Wisp/Defog as a set these days if I want a check to primal Groudon. Draco Meteor is a solid 2HKO, whereas it cannot 2HKO you with Stone Edge unless it is at +2. And even if it does KO you first, you at least take an enormous chunk out of it and set it up to be revenge killed since you prevent it from RPing.

 

[yohoE]

Seeing as how this is already a problem.. PLEASE CHECK IF SOMETHING IS RESERVED BEFORE POSTING.

 

[Jibaku]

Reserving Yveltal as a check

EDIT:

Yveltal @ Black Glasses
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Sucker Punch
- Roost
- Taunt

Groudon's attack is indeed high enough that even its 160 base defense won't always help it. Yveltal works as a check as long as you don't directly switch it into Stone Edge (or if Stone Edge misses). Anything else works.

The Speed EVs makes this thing outrun min Speed Lugia. The PDon in the example is slower.

PDon's Stone Edge vs Yveltal: 53%-63%

Yveltal will survive Stone Edge after SR dmg, and will survive a crit one at full health

"Yveltal's" Foul Play vs 120 HP / 252 Atk+ PDon: 62.5%-74%
Yveltal's Sucker Punch vs 120 HP PDon: 31%-37%
Combined damage: 93%-111%

You will need Stealth Rock to guarantee the KO. Alternatively, you have a lot of room to invest in attack to ensure that the followup Sucker Punch will KO, although that deviates from the general purpose of the set.

If Groudon Swords Dances you'll OHKO it with Foul Play obviously.

 

[finalninja243]

It's cool, man. Since you have written it up, you can have Giratina - O. Reserving Skarmory instead.

Thanks a lot man

 

[Halcyon.]

Reserving Latios as a check.

 

[benbe]

reserving gliscor as a counter

edit:

Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 172 Def / 100 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Roost
- Earthquake

yeah besides gliscor being one of my favorite mons its probably the most solid mon against this pdon set while not being dead weight. evs allow you to outspeed 136 spd don and proceed to taunt toxic + roost stall it since s edge does no damage w/o a +2 (which cant be attained due to taunt). once pdon is below 50% eq has an extremely high chance to knock it out. precipice blades on said roost will hurt but using ur brain should be an effective enough strategy not to lose 1v1 vs don

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 236 HP / 172+ Def Gliscor: 101-119 (28.8 - 34%) -- 1.2% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 172+ Def Gliscor: 180-213 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal (eqs bp = 120(precipice blades))

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 156-186 (42 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

 

[Dilwar]

TFW Lugia

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Aeroblast
- Dragon Tail / Whirlwind
- Toxic
- Roost

Lugia is immune to PDon's STAB in Precipice Blades making it a somewhat decent switch-in. However Stone Edge does decent damage to it, especially at +2. This set is the standard physical wall set that was commonly used to phase Mega Ray. It does the same to PDon too.

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 184-218 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

As shown by this calc, Lugia can phase Primal Groudon with Dragon Tail or Whirlwind pretty easily, even after Stealth Rock. Note that this doesn't account for Multiscale intact, so if they switch in together:

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 92-109 (22.1 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

With Multiscale up Lugia can Toxic and begin Roost stall games. The fact that PDon can at most 3HKO if Multiscale isn't up means the Roost stall games won't be difficult to pull off. However, obviously Primal Groudon can start setting up SDs and threaten Lugia, in which case Lugia can phase it out. The turn it SDs is a turn you Roost and gain Lefties recovery, so you'd most likely have Multiscale intact, unless you've taken a lot of prior damage from another Pokemon. So, you won't have to worry about taking a +2 Stone Edge without Multiscale most of the time. This would rack up damage over time and would do a good job of checking it throughout the battle. If you have hazards up, racking up the damage on PDon is easy.

The reason this isn't a counter is because if Lugia switches in after Stealth Rock, and PDon predicts the switch in and Swords Dances, Lugia is finished.

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 366-432 (88.1 - 104%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

But yeah I guess if rocks aren't up this thing is pretty close to a permanent check / counterish.

 

[Toshhy]

I'm nominating Giratina-O as a Check to Primal Groudon

Specifically, defensive Giratina-O can switch in with impunity on most of Primal Groudon's attacks, barring a rare +2 Dragon Claw, which still fails to OHKO. It can Defog Stealth Rock from support Primal Groudon Sets as well if needed. Offensive variations of Giratina-O may not have the durability to take repeated assaults from boosted Primal-Groudon, but definitely threaten heavy damage with Draco Meteor. It must be noted that Primal Groudon lacks the ability to hurt Giratina-O without any boosts or without Dragon Claw. However, Primal Groudon may be able to break past Giratina-O with repeated prior damage, especially if Giratina-O is required to check other threats such as Ekiller due to its lack of reliable recover. Lastly, Giratina-O is unable to be trapped by both Gothitelle and Mega Gengar.

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 248 Def / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature

- Defog
- Shadow Sneak
- Roar
- Will-o-Wisp

I find it ironic that this is a check to Primal Groudon. I think Primal Groudon actually walls your Giratina-Origin set with hazards off the field which is made even easier by your Giratina-O providing Defog.

 

[finalninja243]

That Giratina-O set doesn't even beat Primal Groudon at all. The only thing you can do is roar it out, but it completely walls you so there's nothing to stop it from coming right back in and Stone Edging until you die. I usually run Dragon Tail Shadow Sneak Draco Meteor Wisp/Defog as a set these days if I want a check to primal Groudon. Draco Meteor is a solid 2HKO, whereas it cannot 2HKO you with Stone Edge unless it is at +2. And even if it does KO you first, you at least take an enormous chunk out of it and set it up to be revenge killed since you prevent it from RPing.

My apologizes on the set listed. I didn't think over the given set and randomly took one off the site. You're right about the fact that the given set doesn't check Primal Don. I've made changes to the set listed. Thanks

 

[finalninja243]

Reserving Rayquaza as a Check

 

[Inspirited]

Reserving Adamant mence
Edit: Actually looked at the PDon set and realized it was Double Dance instead of offensive rocks.
Reserving Grassy instead

Edit2: Done!
Counter:

Arceus @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Timid nature
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar / Stone Edge / Perish Song

To be frank, Arceus-Grass is an absolutely terrible counter, or even check, to an un-scouted Primal Groudon. This particular Primal Groudon is countered by Arceus-Grass though, due to its coverage move being neutral and very weak against Grassy, Grassy resisting its primary STAB, and Grass Knot 2HKOing this Primal Groudon always. Be warned though, if Groudon carries Fire Punch or Overheat, Grassy is OHKOed. Make sure the Primal Groudon in question does not carry a Fire move! I can't stress this enough.

GKing the heaviest mon

Grassy v Groudon:
- 0 SpA Meadow Plate Arceus-Grass Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 198-234 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Groudon v Grassy:
- 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake (yes this is 120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 118-139 (26.6 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
- 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 131-155 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 14% chance to 3HKO

"Other" Groudon v Grassy:
- 0- SpA Groudon Overheat vs. 248 HP / 160 SpD Arceus-Grass in Sun: 404-476 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
- 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass in Sun: 444-524 (100.2 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ Atk Groudon Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 105-124 (23.7 - 27.9%) -- 89.1% chance to 4HKO (lol)

 

[smlj]

Nominating Chesnaught as a check to the Groudon set.

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Drain Punch / Earthquake
- Synthesis / Spiky Shield

With this EV spread, Chesnaught will always live a +2 Earthquake after stealth rocks and try to toxic stall Groudon from there.

+2 252+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 172-203 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (changed Atk to 180 and BP of Eq to 120 to represent PBlade)

If Groudon has yet to boost up, Chesnaught takes only max of 27% from Precipice Blade, letting it to switch in on any one of those attacks. Drain Punch (which I think it just received) is to deal some damage to Groudon and recover some health while Earthquake on Chesnaught could be used yo 3HKO Primal Groudon most of the time, not that you should be attacking it usually. Toxic is to slowly whittle out the HP out of Primal Groudon. Leech Seed is useful as passive recovery. Synthesis is extremely good against Groudon as it has a guaranteed 2/3 recovery in the harsh sunlight, albeit with little PP.

This may not be a very good set now as many Pdons carry either Fire Punch, Overheat or Lava Plume, making it impossible to switch this in against Pdon unless you are really sure it is not carrying a Fire move.

 

[xDesch]

Just some questions: Will the viablilty of our check/counter have an impact on how good our nomination will be, or is it just specifically just for checking/countering that one specific set mentioned here? Also, we only need to check that specific set you posted there, right? I don't need to worry about Fire Punch or a random T-Wave, right? And can each person only nominate one poke and one set?

Anyways, reserving Flygon as a counter

 

[yohoE]

Just some questions: Will the viablilty of our check/counter have an impact on how good our nomination will be, or is it just specifically just for checking/countering that one specific set mentioned here? Also, we only need to check that specific set you posted there, right? I don't need to worry about Fire Punch or a random T-Wave, right? And can each person only nominate one poke and one set?

Anyways, reserving Flygon as a counter

Yes, you only have to worry about the set posted.

As for the nominations, I'm probably going to do something like what I feel is the best, the most creative, and then a filler.

 

[xDesch]

(everything bolded is either important, noteworthy or my personal preference)

Flygon @ BrightPowder / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 44 HP / 152 Atk / 252 Def / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Substitute
- U-Turn

This Flygon is specifically designed to have more than a 100% chance to win against that specific Primal Groudon set. It outspeeds him by 1 point, which is a huge advantage, because if Groudon wants to outspeed, he has to waste an entire turn to do so. This Flygon also has this 100% chance to 2HKO, which means in a bad situation (which only happens against TAS) he can quickly outspeed and get the kill with only 2 hits. Because of Levitate, we only need to focus about Groudon's Stone Edge, which has its perks, like only having 8 PP, and only having a 80% chance to hit. Relevant calc's:

252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Flygon on a critical hit: 110-130 (36.5 - 43.1%)
+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Flygon: 147-173 (48.8 - 57.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Flygon on a critical hit: 221-260 (73.4 - 86.3%)

152+ Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 186-218 (50.1 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Stealth Rock is the only entry hazard that can make a difference here, but that difference is pretty much unnoticeable. Another great thing about this set is that it can check the Groudon multiple times every match. He will either force it out, or kill it. He can use U-Turn for momentum, which also has great utility in general. But the most noteworthy thing about this thing, is that he can check/counter Groudon both offensively (like previously explained) and defensively (in a way). That is because of the rather unique combination of Substitute, Roost and BrightPowder (and his Typing + Ability, ofc). The reduced accuracy caused by his item makes Groudon's Stone Edge a shitty move with only a 72% chance of hitting, which can be abused to its fullest with sub and Roost. Sub can also just be used to stall out the PP of Stone Edge and it also works well when if he retreats.

The 4th move (and to some extent the 3rd one) can be swapped out with a variety of other moves. While the one listed above was picked to fare the best against that Groudon, other moves can be used, and only makes a really small change overall. Defog, Toxic, Double Team, Tailwind and even Sand Tomb (to trap either Groudon or a switch-in) can be used and still get some satisfying results.

There is another EV spread that also works on this poke, which gives more defense, but reduces the chance to 2HKO Groudon to "only" 95.25%. The bulk you gain is more than the loss of attack, but it reduces the chance to win against that Groudon to "only" around 99.9%. That EV spread is: EVs: 252 Atk / 196 Def / 60 Spe with Impish Nature. Leftovers can also be used instead of BrightPowder obviously. It is more viable in general, but inferior in this specific case.

If the that Groudon were to carry another coverage move, like Dragon Claw, Then Flygon is pretty much dead. He can live one hit, but not 2 hits, a crit or one +2 hit. It can miss, tho. With a Haban Berry equipped, he will beat the Groudon if he sets up Swords Dance and does not crit on the following turn. 2 regular Dragon Claws will Kill regardless

 

[Level 56]

Here's a cool answer to this challenge.

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Def / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Went with the standard set as the only move thats required here is, scald to ohko groudon. 140 speed outspeeds don posted in the challenge and ogre survives a precipice blade comfortably with these evs.

Regards

 

[xDesch]

Primal Kyogre looks fun, but I don't see why you'd want to run more than 140 Speed on him in that case. also, assuming you do have at least 140 speed EV's, you need at least 252+ Def with 152 HP (minimum amount of EV's needed to get this physical bulk) to live a crit from Groudon's ground STAB. This means that you can't have both the speed neccecary to outspeed and live a crit at the same time. Not sure if entry hazards counts as "worst case scenario" (probably not). It still works tho, in a way, due to the current description of both check and counter excluding hax, which includes crits.

 

[yohoE]

You can post more than one, but I prefer you guys to wait a little before posting more than one. If half the week goes by and nobody has chosen your second entry, go for it. I'll add that to the OP as well