Victreebel (OU) QC: 1/2

[Ortheore]

This analysis has been updated up unto the point where a QC member can decide whether we take Sleep Powder off the set. QC I believe already decided way back when that Victreebel's analysis should have one set. However, I'm sure some metagame development has taken place during SPL XI and we can come to a decision there also.

Where/when was this decided? I would actually be incredibly appalled if only one set got posted because being able to run two sets which serve completely different roles and demand very different responses is one of Bel's defining characteristics

 

[Amaranth]

Where/when was this decided? I would actually be incredibly appalled if only one set got posted because being able to run two sets which serve completely different roles and demand very different responses is one of Bel's defining characteristics

I don't think anyone ever explicitly decided that this analysis should have one set, but you're also just kinda wrong here? The only times when Vic was relevant and actually very good in RBY OU since I started playing, it was achieving that by running sleep+wrap+razorleaf+filler. SD+HB has been kinda irrelevant for a good while now. I definitely don't think only mentioning SD+HB in OO should cause anyone to be "incredibly appalled", I can count the times I've seen that work in a high level match on the fingers of one hand, and I strongly disagree with the notion that Bel is defined by its unpredictability, because one of the sets has been incredibly popular and the other is only a fringe option.

But, I would leave these sort of arguments for when we agree on what the fuck's going on with this analysis, and who's gonna host it going forward, because there's some confusion there for the time being. The mon itself has even shifted downwards in usage and viability a crapton since the analysis was first written, which means there's a lot of work to be done to bring everything back to an accurate state I think

 

[Ortheore]

I don't think anyone ever explicitly decided that this analysis should have one set, but you're also just kinda wrong here? The only times when Vic was relevant and actually very good in RBY OU since I started playing, it was achieving that by running sleep+wrap+razorleaf+filler. SD+HB has been kinda irrelevant for a good while now. I definitely don't think only mentioning SD+HB in OO should cause anyone to be "incredibly appalled", I can count the times I've seen that work in a high level match on the fingers of one hand, and I strongly disagree with the notion that Bel is defined by its unpredictability, because one of the sets has been incredibly popular and the other is only a fringe option.

But, I would leave these sort of arguments for when we agree on what the fuck's going on with this analysis, and who's gonna host it going forward, because there's some confusion there for the time being. The mon itself has even shifted downwards in usage and viability a crapton since the analysis was first written, which means there's a lot of work to be done to bring everything back to an accurate state I think

I mean, on the one hand I strongly disagree with your position, but on the other, as you say in the second paragraph, Bel's position in the meta has radically shifted, so it's probably not even worth making an issue out of it. Do you think that based on Bel's current viability that its SD set is still so far below the Wrap set that it's appropriate for one to be a full set and one to be OO? Because I'd argue that right now Bel isn't terribly relevant, regardless of set.

I feel like Bel was a true anti-meta case. It became good because of the prevailing trends in the metagame, and fell from grace as soon as those trends dissipated.

 

[Amaranth]

I mean, on the one hand I strongly disagree with your position, but on the other, as you say in the second paragraph, Bel's position in the meta has radically shifted, so it's probably not even worth making an issue out of it. Do you think that based on Bel's current viability that its SD set is still so far below the Wrap set that it's appropriate for one to be a full set and one to be OO? Because I'd argue that right now Bel isn't terribly relevant, regardless of set.

I feel like Bel was a true anti-meta case. It became good because of the prevailing trends in the metagame, and fell from grace as soon as those trends dissipated.

Based on Bel's current viability, no, the sleep+wrap+razorleaf set isn't doing so well either, so now both sets are reasonably close in power level, and that power level is not very high. Based on when the analysis was written and when I was asked to write my QC though, I defend my position of not being bothered about the SD set at the time, and I think 'incredibly appalled' was a strong wording to use there.

It was definitely an anti-meta case, just look at Vic's performance in UU lol, the mon itself is not very good. But when you have about 15 mons dominating a tier it's only natural for obscure counters to rise up, we see this all the time with things like Porygon etc. making cameos

 

[xJoelituh]

Spoke to both and Plague von Karma is gonna take over, also we decided on doing one set.