Gen 1 Victreebel (OU Revamp) [QC: 2/2] [GP 2/2] [DONE]

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Plague von Karma

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:rb/victreebel:
Taken over from Aaronboyer on 19th Sept 2020, approved by xJoelituh.
Aaronboyer's unfinished analysis can be found here, for reference.


[OVERVIEW]
Victreebel's access to the unique combination of Wrap and Sleep Powder allows it to whittle down slower foes as well as cripple faster ones giving it great sweeping potential. With the rare Razor Leaf, it can be very difficult to switch into, especially because a would-be counter could get paralyzed by Stun Spore and subsequently dispatched by Wrap. Victreebel's Speed also makes it a reliable sleep inducer, as it outruns Lapras and Exeggutor. It can also Speed tie Cloyster while outpacing Chansey, Snorlax, and Rhydon.

However, Psychic and Blizzard are extremely common moves in the metagame, and most staples that use either will 2HKO Victreebel at minimum. This, in addition to its middling Speed, makes Victreebel a difficult Pokemon to get mileage out of. It mandates paralysis support to reach its full potential while providing little to no defensive utility in return. Its mediocre Speed also makes paralysis particularly devastating, almost completely erasing its threat potential. Victreebel is also walled by Gengar, as its coverage is almost completely restricted to Normal- and Grass-type attacks. Overall, despite being solid on paper, Victreebel tends to struggle in practice.

[SET]
name: Wrapper
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Wrap
move 3: Razor Leaf
move 4: Stun Spore / Hyper Beam

[SET COMMENTS]

Set Description
=========
The rare Sleep Powder gives Victreebel among the most consistent sleep options in the game, putting a potential counter out of commission for what's likely the rest of the game. Wrap's extreme power in RBY OU should be emphasized, especially because Victreebel is among its best users; it prevents foes from attacking, wears down teams, and lets its user uniquely pivot out of any check for free by immobilizing it for a turn. Its imperfect accuracy, though, means Victreebel is always vulnerable to a counterattack after an unfortunate miss. Razor Leaf acts as a very strong STAB attack that not all teams are necessarily prepared for. Stun Spore lets Victreebel spread its own paralysis without support from teammates, which can be crucial when a faster Pokemon such as Zapdos attempts to switch in. It can also be used should Tauros come in after Victreebel lands a KO, but this risks immense damage or even Body Slam paralysis. Given the threat level of Tauros, though, it can be worth the risk. Hyper Beam can be used instead of Stun Spore to finish off foes more quickly to minimize the cumulative risk of Wrap misses.

It should be noted that bringing in Victreebel is quite difficult, as almost every threat in the metagame has a move that hits it for super effective damage, and if they don't, they likely have a way to paralyze it. Due to this, Victreebel is generally restricted to coming in on passive Pokemon, such as those that have used Rest. However, smart double switching is also a good way to get Victreebel into the game early. It's best to use Victreebel after the most natural Wrap answers, mainly common fast Pokemon such as Alakazam, Jolteon, and Zapdos, have been crippled with paralysis. This makes it very difficult for the opponent to fight back against Wrap without a smart switch-in or an unfortunate miss. Wrap can also be used to punish paralyzed foes trying to switch in on Sleep Powder; this can even lead to the paralyzed Pokemon being KOed outright. However, bulkier foes that aren't threatened too much by Razor Leaf can absorb Wrap and subsequently pivot into a faster threat, such as Starmie. This strategy keeps Victreebel from actually KOing a paralyzed Pokemon or putting a non-paralyzed one to sleep unless it is used with excellent prediction.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============
Victreebel can use Swords Dance alongside Hyper Beam as a surprise set to become an even more threatening late-game sweeper. Victreebel's +2 Hyper Beam is nothing to scoff at; it OHKOes Alakazam on the switch in and even has a small chance to OHKO Chansey. Such power often forces a foe out, which can allow Victreebel to sneak in some status. Swords Dance can, alternatively, be used on the Wrap set to boost its net damage output, but it is very hard to justify over the conventional options. On the whole, Swords Dance is very difficult to fit on a set, since losing Wrap or a powder move makes Victreebel very specialized and more reliant on the opponent losing to it on the spot. Body Slam can be used to give Victreebel an option to threaten both sleeping and unstatused Pokemon at the same time, alleviating the burden of prediction, but the opportunity cost of running it above other moves is generally too high to be worth it.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Faster Pokemon**: Victreebel has major issues dealing with faster threats due to its poor defensive typing and stats. Many of the fast threats in RBY OU, such as Alakazam and Jynx, deal serious damage to it, and Victreebel can't do much back on its own. Faster threats will try to absorb the hits from Wrap, wait for it to end, and then force Victreebel out with their powerful STAB moves. Situationally, however, such matchups can sway in Victreebel's favor. For instance, Starmie can try to paralyze Victreebel and get OHKOed by Razor Leaf in return. Tauros can attempt to wait out Wrap, but Stun Spore will leave it seriously crippled and unable to sweep.

**Gengar**: Gengar is immune to Hyper Beam as well as Wrap's damage, and it resists Razor Leaf, leaving Victreebel with little in the way of options for defeating it. To make matters worse, Gengar threatens to put it to sleep with Hypnosis, which can end up dooming Victreebel due to its fragility. All Victreebel can do is status it or switch out. Wrap can be used to immobilize it on the switch in, though, allowing Victreebel to switch out to another Pokemon safely.

**Paralysis**: Paralysis almost completely nullifies Victreebel's potential. All foes suddenly become faster than it, which means it can no longer use Wrap safely. Full paralysis is very dangerous as well, putting the odds of hitting Wrap in the first place around a mere 66%. Many fast threats, such as Alakazam and Starmie, threaten to paralyze Victreebel before it can even move. Even slower threats, such as Chansey, can paralyze Victreebel if Wrap ever misses.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [Aaronboyer, 239454]]
- Quality checked by: [[Amaranth, 265630], [FriendOfMrGolem120, 424525]]
- Grammar checked by: [[A Cake Wearing A Hat, 388157], [The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216]]
 
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Victreebel compresses the utility of Sleep Powder and Wrap, allowing it to deal with many threats in RBY OU, paralyzed or not. It has great sweeping potential; with excellent offensive stats and the rare Razor Leaf, it can be very difficult to switch into. This is further compounded by the threat of status in the first place, as a would-be counter could get paralyzed by Stun Spore and subsequently dispatched by Wrap instead. In addition, it can utilize Swords Dance to further increase its threat potential with Hyper Beam. Victreebel's Speed, while mediocre, can make it a reliable sleeper, as outspeeding Lapras and Exeggutor can be very valuable.

However, Victreebel has some very big weaknesses. For starters, Psychic and Blizzard are extremely common moves in the metagame, and most staples who use either will 2HKO it at minimum. This, in addition to its middling Speed, makes Victreebel a difficult Pokemon to get mileage out of. It mandates paralysis support to use it to its full potential while providing little to no defensive utility in return. This also makes it particularly devastating to see Victreebel get paralyzed, as this almost completely diminishes its threat potential. It's also walled by Gengar, as its coverage is almost completely restricted to Normal- and Grass-type attacks. Overall, despite being solid on paper, Victreebel tends to struggle in practice.
I think it's important to stress that Victreebel's ability to Wrap + Sleep is unique to it, and it's this combination that makes it viable. The first sentence should be reworded to reflect this; something like "Victreebel has access to the unique combination of Sleep Powder and Wrap, allowing it to Wrap down slower opponents and cripple faster ones with Sleep" would work. Probably fix the 'sweeping potential' sentence to follow from this as well (add "as a result" at the start, or something to that effect). Wouldn't mention the "excellent offensive stats" (they're not all that impressive); would also move SD+HB to the end of the paragraph as they're extra tricks that it can pull but not really anything integral. The Speed sentence deserves expanding - it's not only Lapras and Exeggutor, but also Chansey, Snorlax, Rhydon, and a tie with Cloyster. This is important not only because of Sleep but also (and most importantly) because of Wrap. While Vic's speed may look mediocre it is in fact good enough to outrun a huge chunk of the meta - it's the slowest of the fast mons, but it still has to be considered a fast mon by RBY OU standards since there's literally nothing between it and the proper 'fast' mons (Jynx 95, Zapdos 100 and upwards). (Don't talk about this in the analysis - I'm just providing an explanation for why I think saying that Victreebel's speed is 'mediocre' is misleading)

The weaknesses paragraph is very good.

This is the standard Wrap set Victreebel uses. The rare Sleep Powder gives Victreebel among the most consistent sleep options in the game, putting a potential counter out of commission for what's likely the rest of the game. It should also be emphasised that Wrap is an extremely powerful move in RBY OU, and Victreebel makes some of the best use of it: Wrap prevents opponents from attacking, wears down teams, and provides unique pivoting opportunities. Razor Leaf cleaves through the Water-types of the metagame that would otherwise threaten Victreebel with Blizzard coverage. This is supremely helpful against Slowbro in particular, as Razor Leaf ignores its Amnesia boosts with a guaranteed 2HKO to boot. Razor Leaf also helps against Rhydon, who would otherwise take an unreasonable amount of time to KO; this would give it ample opportunity to exploit a missed Wrap. Stun Spore ensures Victreebel can spread its own paralysis without support from teammates, which can be crucial when a faster Pokemon, such as Zapdos, attempts to switch in. This can technically be used when Tauros tries to revenge kill Victreebel, but it will take immense damage in the process or even get paralyzed by Body Slam, so it isn't always wise. Should Stun Spore be unnecessary, Hyper Beam can be used to KO opponents during a Wrap chain, as well as make Victreebel take on the role of a late-game sweeper.
You get lost talking about specific niche Razor Leaf hits while breezing along over Wrap. Probably expand on the "unique pivoting opportunities" - explain that, since a Victreebel check switching into Wrap cannot move for a turn, the Victreebel player can safely switch out to a good answer and continue from there - and also cut down on Razor Leaf. Mention that it's a strong STAB attack that nearly 3HKOs Snorlax and provides a rare offensive typing in RBY OU which some teams are unprepared for, don't need to do much more (we all know Grass is supereffective on Water and Ground/Rock).

Continuing, "technically" is weird there, Tauros is a broken pokemon and trading Vic for paralysis on it is a very legitimate play in a lot of cases. Just remove it and the sentence works fine. As for Hyper Beam, it doesn't really make Vic take a different role, it just further enables it in that role by making it better at finishing certain Wrap targets (mostly Chansey). You can probably rework the whole sentence to just "Should SS be unnecessary, HB can be used to help finishing off opponents without having to risk multiple further Wraps, which have a higher chance of missing."

Wrap Victreebel can be used as a lead to be favoured against Chansey and Exeggutor, but it struggles mightily with many other standard leads, such as Gengar, Jynx and Alakazam. As a result, it's best to use Victreebel late-game, as it's very difficult for a paralyzed foe to fight back against a sequence of Wrap uses, relying on a smart switch-in or an unfortunate miss. In addition, Wrap can be used to punish paralyzed foes trying to switch in on Sleep Powder, allowing for significant gains in momentum; this can even lead to the paralyzed Pokemon being KOed outright. However, faster foes such as Articuno, Zapdos and Alakazam can switch in on Wrap freely and force Victreebel out once the Wrap turns are over. It's recommended to paralyze these threats and keep Victreebel hidden to be successful with this strategy. However, bulkier foes that aren't threatened too much by Razor Leaf can absorb Wrap and subsequently pivot into a faster threat, such as Starmie. This strategy keeps Victreebel from actually KOing a paralyzed Pokemon or putting a non-paralyzed one to sleep without excellent prediction.
You would need some strong drugs to actually think Victreebel is a fine lead. Don't even mention it. Start the paragraph with "It's best to use Victreebel after the most natural Wrap answers, mainly common fast pokemon such as Alakazam, Jolteon, and Zapdos, have been crippled" - you can keep the "as it's very difficult..." bit that comes after that. This way you can cut the later sentences that talk about this stuff. The rest is worded a bit weird but it's probably fine.

Probably worth mentioning that Victreebel has a very hard time switching in and you should look to do so against resting or otherwise passive enemies bc it's very difficult otherwise, but I'm not sure where in the paragraph exactly - see if you find a good place to work it in.

Victreebel can use Swords Dance alongside Hyper Beam as a surprise set, which enables it to become an even more threatening late-game sweeper. Victreebel's +2 Hyper Beam is nothing to scoff at; it OHKOes Alakazam on switch-in and even has a small chance to OHKO Chansey. Given its threat level, it's common for it to force a foe out, which can allow for Victreebel to sneak in some status. However, this set is effortlessly walled by Gengar, who effectively nullifies the Swords Dance boost and takes nothing from Razor Leaf. Swords Dance can, alternatively, be used with the Wrap set to boost its net damage output, but it's very hard to justify over its conventional options. Outside of this, Victreebel doesn't have a lot in the way of options. Double-Edge could be used as an alternative to Hyper Beam, but the recoil is a nasty downside, making Victreebel even easier to revenge kill than it already is.
Regular Victreebel is already walled by Gengar so that's no news worth talking about here. The real problem with SD+HB is that you only have so many moveslots and you need Razor Leaf to actually break stuff (cloy/rhydon), so you only have one of wrap/sleep/stun which makes you pretty miserable if your opponent doesn't lose to the SD+HB gimmick on the spot, since you've given up the proper good moves for it.

Double-Edge is very meh, cut it. Do mention Body Slam though - me and Lusch had a talk about this in the original thread, see there for explanations


**Faster Pokemon**: Victreebel has major issues dealing with faster threats due to its fragility, which comes with its typing and poor defensive stats. Many of the fast threats in OU, such as Alakazam and Jynx, deal serious damage to it, and Victreebel can't do much back on its own. Faster threats will try to absorb the hits from Wrap, wait for it to end, and then try to force it out by threatening it with their powerful STABs. Situationally, however, it can sway in Victreebel's favour. For example, Starmie can attempt this strategy, but Razor Leaf will deal serious damage if it predicts wrong. In addition, predicting a switch-in with Stun Spore can allow for a Wrap chain.
All this prediction stuff is just wrong, because you never have to predict anything. The Wrap comes out, the Vic is locked into Wrap, everyone knows what's happening. Razor Leaf is more of a "if Starmie waits out the wrap cycle to try to twave me I'm straight OHKOing it here" type of deal. Same with Stun Spore and Tauros - if the Bull wants to switch in and wait out the Wrap, SS gives you an option to get serious advantage out of it. The rest of the paragraph is good.

**Paralysis Inducers**: Paralysis as a status almost completely nullifies Victreebel's potential. For instance, Zapdos resists Razor Leaf and can easily switch in on Wrap if not paralyzed. To make matters worse, it can then proceed to paralyze Victreebel itself. Many fast threats, such as Alakazam and Starmie, also threaten to paralyze Victreebel before it can even move. Even slower threats, such as Chansey, can paralyze Victreebel if Wrap misses. This must be accounted for if Victreebel is to be successful on a team.
Zapdos can already happily switch in on Wrap so that's a poor example - the big thing with Victreebel and paralysis is that virtually everything that it was previously able to outspeed and Wrap safely now gets to move before it (Exeggutor and Lapras STAB x2 attacks and all that), and also that it makes the odds of hitting a wrap in the first place even lower due to FPs. Add this stuff, cut the Zapdos, and we're good here.

A lot of changes to be made here so I'll wait to see them before giving a check.
 
Made a bunch of changes based on what you said, thanks!
Looks quite good now but there is an issue with the Body Slam paragraph. Lusch explained it well here - Body Slam is a weaker and less reliable move in most scenarios, but it gives you a good midground option after you just slept something - normally, right after sleeping something you need to make a prediction with Razor Leaf vs. Stun Spore and whether they are going to switch out or not. You don't want to Stun Spore a sleeping pokemon giving it wake turns, and you don't want to Razor Leaf an incoming switchin that doesn't mind the damage. Body Slam covers both - you're happy to BSlam and get to work on any sleeping mon, but if they go Eggy or Zam or Zapdos you also get par chances which is pretty good.

To sum this up in a way that fits OO, you could say something like "Body Slam allows Victreebel to have an option to threaten both sleeping and unstatused Pokemon at the same time, alleviating the burden of prediction, but the opportunity cost of running it above other moves is generally too high to be worth it."

Once that's implemented, QC 1/2. There are some pieces of wording here and there that I still find a little odd but the information looks very accurate to me now
 

Plague von Karma

Diolch am eich amser!
is a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcher
Once that's implemented, QC 1/2. There are some pieces of wording here and there that I still find a little odd but the information looks very accurate to me now
Implemented the quote with a slight wording change, should be ready for 2nd QC now
 

FriendOfMrGolem120

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Razor Leaf acts as a very strong STAB attack that not all teams are necessarily prepared for; this can also 3HKO Snorlax.
The chance to 3HKO Lax without prior chip damage on it is very low and since Lax is slower, you usually would use Wrap unless it is asleep or in KO range, so I am not sure if mentioning Lax there is necessary.
[Stun Spore] can be used when Tauros tries to revenge kill Victreebel, but it will take immense damage in the process or even get paralyzed by Body Slam, so it isn't always wise
Tauros might be the pokemon that fears paralysis the most in the entire metagame. Usually it is wise to risk paralysis on Victreebel if you can paralyse Tauros in exchange. If the opponent uses their Tauros to attack Victreebel that is not in KO range, it is a sign of desperation and shows how much Victreebel threatened the rest of their team.
Should Stun Spore be unnecessary, Hyper Beam can be used to help with finishing off opponents without having to risk multiple further Wraps, which have a higher chance of missing.
I don't like the word unecessary here. I would just say "Hyper Beam can be used instead of Stun Spore to help etc.".
Due to this, Victreebel is generally restricted to coming in on passive Pokemon, such as those that have used Rest. It's best to use Victreebel after the most natural Wrap answers, mainly common fast Pokemon such as Alakazam, Jolteon, and Zapdos, have been crippled with paralysis, as it's very difficult for one to fight back against a sequence of Wrap uses, relying on a smart switch-in or an unfortunate miss.
Often Vic can also get into the game relatively early by double switching. It doesn't necessarily need to be kept for the lategame.


Personal thoughts about Vic in the current meta: it is not as effective as it used to be. It was an excellent sleep inducer during the time when most people exchanged T-Waved with their lead on turn 1 and slower 6th were more common (Rhydon, Lapras) and even against Zapdos last you would still have a good matchup if you pair Victreebel with Rhydon yourself. Now that more people switching their lead out to Chansey, drop Exeggutor, use Starmie and Alakazam on the same team, Victreebel can't easily exploit the paralysed leads as it used to. I haven't used it for a while now. Maybe it's possible that nowadays you would try to use it more as a late game Wrapper than an early game sleep inducer.

Wrap can also be used to punish paralyzed foes trying to switch in on Sleep Powder, allowing for significant gains in momentum; this can even lead to the paralyzed Pokemon being KOed outright.
I don't think using Wrap against a paralysed foe gives you more momentum than against non-paralysed ones, except for the fact that Victreebel likely will just end up KO-ing them if they keep staying in.
 

Finland

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bless that wrap set isn't second now

Add/Fix Remove Comment
(AP)/(RP)=Add/Remove Period
(AC)/(RC)=Add/Remove Comma

[OVERVIEW]
Victreebel has access to the unique combination of Sleep Powder and Wrap, allowing it to Wrap whittle down slower opponents foes with Wrap and cripple faster ones with Sleep. As a result, it has great sweeping potential; with sleep, giving it great sweeping potential. With the rare Razor Leaf, it can be very difficult to switch into(RP). This is further compounded by the threat of status in the first place, as(AC), especially because a would-be counter could get paralyzed by Stun Spore and subsequently dispatched by Wrap instead. Victreebel's Speed also makes it a reliable sleeper, as it outruns Lapras and Exeggutor. This also allows it to tie with It can also Speed tie Cloyster while outspeeding outpacing (just to prevent double "speed") Chansey, Snorlax(AC), and Rhydon.

However, Victreebel has some very big weaknesses. For starters, Psychic and Blizzard are extremely common moves in the metagame, and most staples who use either will 2HKO it at minimum. This, in addition to its middling Speed, makes Victreebel a difficult Pokemon to get mileage out of. It mandates paralysis support to use it to reach its full potential while providing little to no defensive utility in return. This also makes it particularly devastating to see Victreebel get paralyzed, as this Its mediocre Speed also makes paralysis particularly devastating, capable of almost completely diminishes erasing its threat potential. It's Victreebel is also walled by Gengar, as its coverage is almost completely restricted to Normal- and Grass-type attacks. Overall, despite being solid on paper, Victreebel tends to struggle in practice.

[SET]
name: Wrapper
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Wrap
move 3: Razor Leaf
move 4: Stun Spore / Hyper Beam

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
This is the standard Wrap set Victreebel uses. The rare Sleep Powder gives Victreebel among the most consistent sleep options in the game, putting a potential counter out of commission for what's likely the rest of the game. It should also be emphasised that Wrap is an extremely powerful move in RBY OU, and Victreebel makes some of the best use of it: Wrap Wrap's extreme power in RBY OU should be emphasized, especially because Victreebel is among its best users; it prevents opponents from attacking, wears down teams, and provides unique pivoting opportunities. For instance, every Victreebel check will be immobilized by Wrap for a turn, allowing it to switch out freely into a good answer. lets its user uniquely pivot out of any check for free by immobilizing it for a turn. Its imperfect accuracy, though, means Victreebel is always vulnerable to a counterattack after an unfortunate miss. (stole the second sentence's point from Checks/Counters; thought it fit well here both itself and to tie in with the risk of Wrap misses mentioned at the end of this paragraph. obviously its a conceptual thing though, so if you would rather it not be there, feel free to remove it) Razor Leaf acts as a very strong STAB attack that not all teams are necessarily prepared for. Stun Spore ensures Victreebel can lets Victreebel spread its own paralysis without support from teammates, which can be crucial when a faster Pokemon(RC), such as Zapdos(RC), attempts to switch in. This can be used when Tauros tries to revenge kill Victreebel, but it will take It can also be used should Tauros come in after Victreebel lands a KO, but this risks (I change "revenge kill" because, if immense damage and bslam paralysis are possibilities, you aren't going to get "killed" presumably) immense damage in the process or even get paralyzed by Body Slam, but given or even Body Slam paralysis(AP). Given the threat level of Tauros, though, it can be worth it. Hyper Beam can be used instead of Stun Spore to help with finishing off opponents without having to risk multiple further Wraps, which have a higher chance of missing. finish off foes more quickly to minimize the cumulative risk of Wrap misses.

It should be noted that bringing in Victreebel is quite difficult, as almost every threat in the metagame has something a move that hits it for super-effective super effective damage; if they don't, they likely have a way to paralyze it. Due to this, Victreebel is generally restricted to coming in on passive Pokemon, such as those that have used Rest. However, smart double switching is also a good way to get Victreebel into the game early. It's best to use Victreebel after the most natural Wrap answers, mainly common fast Pokemon such as Alakazam, Jolteon, and Zapdos, have been crippled with paralysis(RC), as it's very difficult for one to fight back against a sequence of Wrap uses, relying on(AP). This makes it very difficult for the opponent to fight back against Wrap without a smart switch-in or an unfortunate miss. Wrap can also be used to punish paralyzed foes trying to switch in on Sleep Powder; this can even lead to the paralyzed Pokemon being KOed outright. However, bulkier foes that aren't threatened too much by Razor Leaf can absorb Wrap and subsequently pivot into a faster threat, such as Starmie. This strategy keeps Victreebel from actually KOing a paralyzed Pokemon or putting a non-paralyzed one to sleep without excellent prediction. unless it is used with excellent prediction. (clarity)

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Victreebel can use Swords Dance alongside Hyper Beam as a surprise set(RC), which enables it to become an even more threatening late-game sweeper. Victreebel's +2 Hyper Beam is nothing to scoff at; it OHKOes Alakazam on switch-in the switch in and even has a small chance to OHKO Chansey. Given its threat level, it's common for it to force Such power often forces a foe out, which can allow for Victreebel to sneak in some status. Swords Dance can, alternatively, be used with on the Wrap set to boost its net damage output, but it's is very hard to justify over its the conventional options. The issue with Swords Dance, however, is that it's very difficult to fit on a set, often mandating the removal of an extremely valuable move. Ergo, if the opponent doesn't lose to Swords Dance Victreebel on the spot, the lack of Wrap or one of the powders will become very apparent. On the whole, Swords Dance is very difficult to fit on a set, since losing Wrap or a powder move makes Victreebel very specialized and more reliant on the opponent losing to it on the spot. (aligning start with previous sentences + merging) Body Slam can be used to give Victreebel the an option to threaten both sleeping and unstatused Pokemon at the same time, alleviating the burden of prediction, but the opportunity cost of running it above other moves is generally too high to be worth it.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Pokemon**: Victreebel has major issues dealing with faster threats due to its fragility, which comes with its typing and poor defensive stats. poor defensive typing and stats. Many of the fast threats in RBY OU, such as Alakazam and Jynx, deal serious damage to it, and Victreebel can't do much back on its own. Faster threats will try to absorb the hits from Wrap, wait for it to end, and then try to force it out by threatening it force Victreebel out with their powerful STABs. STAB moves. Situationally, however, it such matchups can sway in Victreebel's favour. (spelling-american) For instance, Starmie can try to paralyze Victreebel(RC), and be get OHKOed by Razor Leaf in return. Tauros can attempt to wait out Wrap, but Stun Spore will leave it seriously crippled and unable to sweep.

**Gengar**: Gengar is immune to Hyper Beam as well as Wrap's damage(AC), and it resists Razor Leaf, leaving Victreebel with little in the way of options for defeating it. To make matters worse, Gengar threatens to put it to sleep with Hypnosis, which can be very difficult for Victreebel to wake up from end up dooming Victreebel (clarity) due to its fragility. All Victreebel can do here is use one of its powders to cripple is status it or switch out. Wrap can be used to immobilize it on switch-in on the switch in(AC), though, and while it won't actually hurt Gengar, it can allow allowing Victreebel to switch out into another Pokemon safely.

**Paralysis Inducers**: Paralysis as a status almost completely nullifies Victreebel's potential. Everything that Victreebel outspeeds is All foes suddenly become faster than it, which means it can no longer Wrap them use Wrap safely. Full paralysis is very pressing dangerous as well, making the odds of hitting Wrap in the first place very low, around 66% in fact. around a mere 66%. (66% is "high" if unreliable; the "very low" odds would be landing that 66 multiple times in a row) Many fast threats, such as Alakazam and Starmie, threaten to paralyze Victreebel before it can even move. Even slower threats, such as Chansey, can paralyze Victreebel if Wrap ever (slight emphasis that you're never fully safe) misses. This must be accounted for if Victreebel is to be successful on a team.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [[Aaronboyer, 239454]]]
- Quality checked by: [[Amaranth, 265630], [FriendOfMrGolem120, 424525]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 

A Cake Wearing A Hat

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[OVERVIEW]
Victreebel has access to the unique combination of Sleep Powder and Wrap, allowing it to whittle down slower foes with Wrap and cripple faster ones with sleep, giving it great sweeping potential. With the rare Razor Leaf, it can be very difficult to switch into, especially because a would-be counter could get paralyzed by Stun Spore and subsequently dispatched by Wrap. Victreebel's Speed also makes it a reliable sleeper sleep inducer, as it outruns Lapras and Exeggutor. It can also Speed tie Cloyster while outpacing Chansey, Snorlax, and Rhydon.

However, Victreebel has some very big weaknesses. (filler sentence) For starters, Psychic and Blizzard are extremely common moves in the metagame, and most staples who use either will 2HKO it Victreebel at minimum. This, in addition to its middling Speed, makes Victreebel a difficult Pokemon to get mileage out of. It mandates paralysis support to reach its full potential while providing little to no defensive utility in return. Its mediocre Speed also makes paralysis particularly devastating, capable of almost completely erasing its threat potential. Victreebel is also walled by Gengar, as its coverage is almost completely restricted to Normal- and Grass-type attacks. Overall, despite being solid on paper, Victreebel tends to struggle in practice.

[SET]
name: Wrapper
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Wrap
move 3: Razor Leaf
move 4: Stun Spore / Hyper Beam

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
This is the standard Wrap set Victreebel uses. (obvious) The rare Sleep Powder gives Victreebel among the most consistent sleep options in the game, putting a potential counter out of commission for what's likely the rest of the game. Wrap's extreme power in RBY OU should be emphasized, especially because Victreebel is among its best users; it prevents opponents foes from attacking, wears down teams, and lets its user uniquely pivot out of any check for free by immobilizing it for a turn. Its imperfect accuracy, though, means Victreebel is always vulnerable to a counterattack after an unfortunate miss. Razor Leaf acts as a very strong STAB attack that not all teams are necessarily prepared for. Stun Spore lets Victreebel spread its own paralysis without support from teammates, which can be crucial when a faster Pokemon such as Zapdos attempts to switch in. It can also be used should Tauros come in after Victreebel lands a KO, but this risks immense damage or even Body Slam paralysis. Given the threat level of Tauros, though, it can be worth it the risk. Hyper Beam can be used instead of Stun Spore to finish off foes more quickly to minimize the cumulative risk of Wrap misses.

It should be noted that bringing in Victreebel is quite difficult, as almost every threat in the metagame has a move that hits it for super effective damage; if they don't, they likely have a way to paralyze it. Due to this, Victreebel is generally restricted to coming in on passive Pokemon, such as those that have used Rest. However, smart double switching is also a good way to get Victreebel into the game early. It's best to use Victreebel after the most natural Wrap answers, mainly common fast Pokemon such as Alakazam, Jolteon, and Zapdos, have been crippled with paralysis. This makes it very difficult for the opponent to fight back against Wrap without a smart switch-in or an unfortunate miss. Wrap can also be used to punish paralyzed foes trying to switch in on Sleep Powder; this can even lead to the paralyzed Pokemon being KOed outright. However, bulkier foes that aren't threatened too much by Razor Leaf can absorb Wrap and subsequently pivot into a faster threat, such as Starmie. This strategy keeps Victreebel from actually KOing a paralyzed Pokemon or putting a non-paralyzed one to sleep unless it is used with excellent prediction.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Victreebel can use Swords Dance alongside Hyper Beam as a surprise set to become an even more threatening late-game sweeper. Victreebel's +2 Hyper Beam is nothing to scoff at; it OHKOes Alakazam on the switch in and even has a small chance to OHKO Chansey. Such power often forces a foe out, which can allow Victreebel to sneak in some status. Swords Dance can, alternatively, be used on the Wrap set to boost its net damage output, but it is very hard to justify over the conventional options. On the whole, Swords Dance is very difficult to fit on a set, since losing Wrap or a powder move makes Victreebel very specialized and more reliant on the opponent losing to it on the spot. Body Slam can be used to give Victreebel an option to threaten both sleeping and unstatused Pokemon at the same time, alleviating the burden of prediction, but the opportunity cost of running it above other moves is generally too high to be worth it.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Pokemon**: Victreebel has major issues dealing with faster threats due to its poor defensive typing and stats. Many of the fast threats in RBY OU, such as Alakazam and Jynx, deal serious damage to it, and Victreebel can't do much back on its own. Faster threats will try to absorb the hits from Wrap, wait for it to end, and then force Victreebel out with their powerful STAB moves. Situationally, however, such matchups can sway in Victreebel's favor. For instance, Starmie can try to paralyze Victreebel and get OHKOed by Razor Leaf in return. Tauros can attempt to wait out Wrap, but Stun Spore will leave it seriously crippled and unable to sweep.

**Gengar**: Gengar is immune to Hyper Beam as well as Wrap's damage, and it resists Razor Leaf, leaving Victreebel with little in the way of options for defeating it. To make matters worse, Gengar threatens to put it to sleep with Hypnosis, which can end up dooming Victreebel due to its fragility. All Victreebel can do is status it or switch out. Wrap can be used to immobilize it on the switch in, though, allowing Victreebel to switch out to another Pokemon safely.

**Paralysis**: Paralysis almost completely nullifies Victreebel's potential. All foes suddenly become faster than it, which means it can no longer use Wrap safely. Full paralysis is very dangerous as well, making the odds of hitting Wrap in the first place around a mere 66%. Many fast threats, such as Alakazam and Starmie, threaten to paralyze Victreebel before it can even move. Even slower threats, such as Chansey, can paralyze Victreebel if Wrap ever misses.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [Aaronboyer, 239454]] (fixed brackets)
- Quality checked by: [[Amaranth, 265630], [FriendOfMrGolem120, 424525]]
- Grammar checked by: [[A Cake Wearing A Hat, 388157], []]


GP 1/2
 

The Dutch Plumberjack

we're lost children of the sea
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator
C&C & TFP Leader
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 2/2
[OVERVIEW]
Victreebel's has access to the unique combination of Sleep Powder and Wrap and Sleep Powder, allowing allows it to whittle down slower foes with Wrap and as well as cripple faster ones with sleep, (repetition, though i could see this one coming at the cost of clarity) giving it great sweeping potential. With the rare Razor Leaf, it can be very difficult to switch into, especially because a would-be counter could get paralyzed by Stun Spore and subsequently dispatched by Wrap. Victreebel's Speed also makes it a reliable sleep inducer, as it outruns Lapras and Exeggutor. It can also Speed tie Cloyster while outpacing Chansey, Snorlax, and Rhydon.

However, Psychic and Blizzard are extremely common moves in the metagame, and most staples who that use either will 2HKO Victreebel at minimum. This, in addition to its middling Speed, makes Victreebel a difficult Pokemon to get mileage out of. It mandates paralysis support to reach its full potential while providing little to no defensive utility in return. Its mediocre Speed also makes paralysis particularly devastating, capable of almost completely erasing its threat potential. Victreebel is also walled by Gengar, as its coverage is almost completely restricted to Normal- and Grass-type attacks. Overall, despite being solid on paper, Victreebel tends to struggle in practice.

[SET]
name: Wrapper
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Wrap
move 3: Razor Leaf
move 4: Stun Spore / Hyper Beam

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
The rare Sleep Powder gives Victreebel among the most consistent sleep options in the game, putting a potential counter out of commission for what's likely the rest of the game. Wrap's extreme power in RBY OU should be emphasized, especially because Victreebel is among its best users; it prevents foes from attacking, wears down teams, and lets its user uniquely pivot out of any check for free by immobilizing it for a turn. Its imperfect accuracy, though, means Victreebel is always vulnerable to a counterattack after an unfortunate miss. Razor Leaf acts as a very strong STAB attack that not all teams are necessarily prepared for. Stun Spore lets Victreebel spread its own paralysis without support from teammates, which can be crucial when a faster Pokemon such as Zapdos attempts to switch in. It can also be used should Tauros come in after Victreebel lands a KO, but this risks immense damage or even Body Slam paralysis. Given the threat level of Tauros, though, it can be worth the risk. Hyper Beam can be used instead of Stun Spore to finish off foes more quickly to minimize the cumulative risk of Wrap misses.

It should be noted that bringing in Victreebel is quite difficult, as almost every threat in the metagame has a move that hits it for super effective damage, and if they don't, they likely have a way to paralyze it. Due to this, Victreebel is generally restricted to coming in on passive Pokemon, such as those that have used Rest. However, smart double switching is also a good way to get Victreebel into the game early. It's best to use Victreebel after the most natural Wrap answers, mainly common fast Pokemon such as Alakazam, Jolteon, and Zapdos, have been crippled with paralysis. This makes it very difficult for the opponent to fight back against Wrap without a smart switch-in or an unfortunate miss. Wrap can also be used to punish paralyzed foes trying to switch in on Sleep Powder; this can even lead to the paralyzed Pokemon being KOed outright. However, bulkier foes that aren't threatened too much by Razor Leaf can absorb Wrap and subsequently pivot into a faster threat, such as Starmie. This strategy keeps Victreebel from actually KOing a paralyzed Pokemon or putting a non-paralyzed one to sleep unless it is used with excellent prediction.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Victreebel can use Swords Dance alongside Hyper Beam as a surprise set to become an even more threatening late-game sweeper. Victreebel's +2 Hyper Beam is nothing to scoff at; it OHKOes Alakazam on the switch in and even has a small chance to OHKO Chansey. Such power often forces a foe out, which can allow Victreebel to sneak in some status. Swords Dance can, alternatively, be used on the Wrap set to boost its net damage output, but it is very hard to justify over the conventional options. On the whole, Swords Dance is very difficult to fit on a set, since losing Wrap or a powder move makes Victreebel very specialized and more reliant on the opponent losing to it on the spot. Body Slam can be used to give Victreebel an option to threaten both sleeping and unstatused Pokemon at the same time, alleviating the burden of prediction, but the opportunity cost of running it above other moves is generally too high to be worth it.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Pokemon**: Victreebel has major issues dealing with faster threats due to its poor defensive typing and stats. Many of the fast threats in RBY OU, such as Alakazam and Jynx, deal serious damage to it, and Victreebel can't do much back on its own. Faster threats will try to absorb the hits from Wrap, wait for it to end, and then force Victreebel out with their powerful STAB moves. Situationally, however, such matchups can sway in Victreebel's favor. For instance, Starmie can try to paralyze Victreebel and get OHKOed by Razor Leaf in return. Tauros can attempt to wait out Wrap, but Stun Spore will leave it seriously crippled and unable to sweep.

**Gengar**: Gengar is immune to Hyper Beam as well as Wrap's damage, and it resists Razor Leaf, leaving Victreebel with little in the way of options for defeating it. To make matters worse, Gengar threatens to put it to sleep with Hypnosis, which can end up dooming Victreebel due to its fragility. All Victreebel can do is status it or switch out. Wrap can be used to immobilize it on the switch in, though, allowing Victreebel to switch out to another Pokemon safely.

**Paralysis**: Paralysis almost completely nullifies Victreebel's potential. All foes suddenly become faster than it, which means it can no longer use Wrap safely. Full paralysis is very dangerous as well, making putting the odds of hitting Wrap in the first place around a mere 66%. Many fast threats, such as Alakazam and Starmie, threaten to paralyze Victreebel before it can even move. Even slower threats, such as Chansey, can paralyze Victreebel if Wrap ever misses.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [Aaronboyer, 239454]]
- Quality checked by: [[Amaranth, 265630], [FriendOfMrGolem120, 424525]]
- Grammar checked by: [[A Cake Wearing A Hat, 388157], []]
 
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