Victreebel (QC 4/3 GP 2/2) - READY FOR UPLOAD

#1
Taking over for Jrp http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/victreebel-qc-2-3.3484626/



QC: TrickRoom, Theorymon, Melee_Mewtwo, Furai (via IRC)
[11:46] <Furai> i gave my check here
[11:46] <Furai> you can proceed to GP alfa
GP: Governess, GatoDelFuego

[Overview]

<p>Victreebel looks like an oddball in such a vicious metagame, but it has its advantages over Venusaur; it retains access to Chlorophyll and Sleep Powder, but also has access to Weather Ball, which eliminates the need for Hidden Power Fire. This allows Victreebel to run Hidden Power Rock or Ice if desired. As a result, Victreebel can hold a place on sun teams as an alternative for Venusaur. However Victreebel struggles a bit in this metagame; Victreebel is ridiculously fragile and really cannot take a hit. Priority users such Extreme Killer Arceus and Scizor can take it out relatively quickly. The only thing Victreebel has going for it defensively is the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes. Despite these flaws, Victreebel has some notable perks as a Chlorophyll user, making it a worthy competitor in Ubers.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Weather Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ice
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is Victreebel's best set with the big boys in Ubers. A base 100 Special Attack looks impossible to work with in a metagame with such unimaginable power, but it hits harder than you think. With access to Sleep Powder, Victreebel can incapicatate a check, such as Kyogre or Latias, for most of or the entire match. Grass Knot is Victreebel's STAB, hitting the vast number of heavy Pokemon in the metagame hard. Weather Ball nails Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Forretress, while dealing respectable damage to Dialga, 2HKOing offensive variants. Hidden Power Rock hits Ho-Oh hard, KOing it after Stealth Rock. However, Hidden Power Ice deals more damage to Rayquaza, Zekrom, and Giratina-O, which would otherwise be troublesome to Victreebel.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>A Modest nature can be used for more power, but then Choice Scarf users, such as Genesect, Terrakion, and Palkia, will outspeed Victreebel. Growth can be used to power up Victreebel, but it is incredibly hard to set up, and the ability to run three attacks is Victreebel's advantage over Venusaur. However, Sleep Powder can secure a free turn to set up a Growth. Sludge Bomb does not hit too many things super effectively, but it is a secondary STAB that has good neutral coverage with Grass Knot and Weather Ball.</p>

<p>This set obviously needs sun support from Groudon; Victreebel also appreciates it laying down Stealth Rock to wear down the opponent. Victreebel also likes Spikes support to bring the opponent down into KO range, so Deoxys-A and Deoxys-S are good partners. Rayquaza can easily revenge kill Victreebel, so Pokemon that check Rayquaza, like Choice Scarf Genesect, bulky Arceus, and Heatran, are good teammates. Palkia and Latias are also good teammates for Victreebel, as they can take care of Kyogre, another major check to Victreebel, as it removes Victreebel's precious sun. Victreebel has problems with specially bulky Pokemon, such as the Lati twins, Chansey, and the Giratina formes. Ho-Oh is great for taking out the Pokemon that wall Victreebel, as it is immune to burns and does not mind being phazed out thanks to Regenerator. Ho-Oh can also dispatch Scizor, which is quite troublesome with its Technician-boosted STAB Bullet Punch.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Victreebel has some tricks in its giant gut that have not been mentioned. A mixed set consisting of Growth / Grass Knot / Weather Ball / Sucker Punch can be used to beat the Lati twins easier, but Victreebel is fast enough so that it is does not really need the priority Sucker Punch offers, and it is not very reliable as a coverage move. A Swords Dance set can be used with Power Whip and Sucker Punch, but its reliance on Sucker Punch for coverage can render it inefficient. Giga Drain and SolarBeam can be used for alternative Grass-type STABs, but Grass Knot is a better choice for Victreebel; SolarBeam is not very reliable in a metagame filled with Kyogre and Tyranitar, and Giga Drain is not strong enough on such a weak Pokemon. Stun Spore can be used to paralyze threats, such as Shaymin-S and Kyogre, but Victreebel is so fragile, that it should really leave spreading paralysis to bulkier Pokemon, such Kyogre and Jirachi. Finally, Encore can lock an opponent into an undesirable move for 3 turns, but Sleep Powder is generally the better option.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>It is not that hard to defeat Victreebel as long as you avoid Sleep Powder. It also lacks a bit of power and cannot OHKO or 2HKO too many Pokemon. Giratina and Giratina-O are the best counters to Victreebel; they resist Grass Knot and Weather Ball and can use RestTalk to make the most out of being asleep. Giratina-A also tends to use Magic Coat, which can ruin Victreebel. Choice Scarf Zekrom can utilize Sleep Talk and KO Victreebel with Outrage or Dragon Claw. Choiced variants of Ho-Oh also tend to carry Sleep Talk, but dislike Hidden Power Rock. There are also many specially bulky Pokemon, aside from the Giratina formes, that can wall or handle Victreebel, such as Lugia, Chansey, Blissey, Lugia, Deoxys-D, Heatran, Manaphy, the Lati twins, Arceus-Dragon, and some other specially bulky Arceus, though they must be careful about switching into a Sleep Powder. Tentacruel needs Ice Beam or a Scald burn to do much to Victreebel, but it is 4HKOed by Grass Knot, making it a decent check. Defensive Dialga can cause Victreebel some problems, but the offensive variants are 2HKOed by Weather Ball. Espeon and Xatu will not appreciate switching into Weather Ball, but the right prediction can put Victreebel to sleep due to Magic Bounce.</p>

<p>Victreebel also has a huge slew of offensive checks due to how fragile and weak it is. Priority users, such as Arceus, Deoxys-A, and Giratina, can easily revenge kill it. Rayquaza hates Hidden Power Ice, Hidden Power Rock, and Sleep Powder, but it can outspeed and KO Victreebel courtesy of Air Lock. Choice Scarf Mewtwo outspeeds Victreebel and can KO it with Psystrike; this also applies to Choice Scarf Shaymin-S with Air Slash.</p>

<p>Taking away Victreebel's beloved sun can easily cripple it. Kyogre can replace the sun with rain, but it must watch for Grass Knot; the same thing applies to Hippowdon and Tyranitar, which can both summon a sandstorm. Thundurus can only switch in on Grass Knot, but it has priority Thunder Wave to essentially cripple Victreebel. Victreebel is also very weak, and relies on having its counters asleep to take them out, so keep those two things in mind while teambuilding and it should not be a problem.</p>


  • Frail
  • slower than venusaur
  • has weather ball which hits a lot harder than hidden power fire, giving it a niche over venusaur
  • outspeeds most of the tier in sun
  • destroyed by pretty much any priority

  • Grass Knot hits a good portion of the tier for full damage
  • Weather Ball is extremely potent, able to hit Dialga harder than anything else as well as blasting Ferrothorn and Steelceus
  • Sleep Powder puts a Pokemon to sleep
  • HP Ice hits most dragons super effectively, whereas HP Rock hits Ho-Oh harder
  • hazards are appreciated to wear down foes like Ho-Oh quicker
  • modest can be used for additional power, but you lose to scarf pokemon such as genesect and palkia if you do this
  • Giga Drain increases longevity, but victreebel isn't taking any hits as it is so it can at least mitigate LO recoil
  • Solarbeam can be used to consistenly hit with 120 base power, but it gets neutered out of sun
  • Sludge bOmb is a secondary STAB that can be used
  • Growth sends bell to +2, but that requires Sleep Powder to use in Ubers, which is better left to Venusaur
  • can run a mixed growth set, allowing it to beat latios/latias easier, but is outclassed by shiftry in this
  • a swords dance set with Leaf Blade and Sucker Punch can be used as well
  • Encore
  • Practically anything with priority can easily smash victreebel
  • opposing kyogre can mess up Victreebel, although they need to watch out for Grass Knot if not running Scarf (or speed investment)
  • chansey just sits there in front of victreebel, although it doesn't appreciate being poisoned by Sludge Bomb (although it can just switch out)
  • Rayquaza needs to watch for Sleep Powder, HP Ice, and Sludge Bomb, but it can easily outspeed and KO Victreebel
  • Manaphy can be a problem if sleep clause is up
 
Last edited:
#2
I have found a physical growth set effective. Should I add it?

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Growth
- Sucker Punch
- Leaf Blade
- Sleep Powder / Weather Ball
 
#3
Reposting since it still applies.
QC REJECTED 1/3

Sorry jrp. :( Victreebel is just a Timid Venusaur with Weather Ball. All this does for it is allow it to hit Dialga under the Sun. That's extremely niche considering Dialga is almost always on a Rain team with a Tina(-O) which means Vbel is getting very little play time. (and Venusaur gets EQ, too) Being able to use another HP is nice but they each have their own major drawbacks that, in general, makes Sludge Bomb the better pick anyways. Just a really situational Venusaur clone (which is already a borderline Pokemon).
I dislike that physical set even more seeing as how it relies on the unreliable Sucker Punch for coverage moves (meaning it's hard walled by Giratina among other things) and it still suffers from massive 4mss that opens up a whole host of other checks and counters. You'll have to ask the guys who actually liked Victreebel for a more fair opinion, though.

Also, you'll really need to fill up that super bare bones checks/counters that jrp had especially since it's probably the biggest thing about Victreebel.
 

shrang

Kylowole is shredded
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#5
So basically, we want an All-out Attacking set instead of Growth. Something like:

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Weather Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ice
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Weather Ball is for strong coverage, while the additional Hidden Power slot that can now go to hitting Ho-oh or Rayquaza.
 

Furai

we will become who we are meant to be
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#7
Please pay attention to the order of the moves in shrang's post. The C&C format goes from most important move to least. HP is definitely not the most important as it's just a coverage move. shrang's order is what you should use
 
#8
<p>Victreebel looks like an oddball in such a vicious metagame, but it has its advantages over Venusaur; it still retains Chlorophyll and Sleep Powder, but also has access to Weather Ball, which eliminates the need for Hidden Power Fire, allowing Victreebel to run Hidden Power Ice if desired. This should be mentioning HP Rock which has the first slash not HP Ice While slower than Venusaur, it also has more physical power, allowing it to hit the opponent harder on the physical side. Why even mention this when there isn't a physical set? As a result, Victreebel can find some space for sun teams willing to provide it with support for setting up. However, Victreebel is ridiculously fragile, and can have some troubles setting up, let alone taking any hit. What does it setup? Priority users like Extremekiller Arceus and Scizor can take it out relatively quickly. The only thing it has going for it defensively is the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes. However, despite these flaws, Victreebel can still be an effective sweeper in the hyper offensive metagame that is Ubers. Ubers isn't an HO meta...</p>
Overall you need to stress that this is just a Venusaur alternative but that they both suck. Victree has a weaker Gknot (which misses the sure 2HKO on 252 HP Arceus that venu gets) but hits steels a lot harder with weather ball, namely skarm and dialga. (again, check the log I posted there were calcs in that discussion)
[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Weather Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ice
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

This is Victreebel's best set with the big boys in Ubers. 100 base SpA may seem underwhelming when 120 is generally what you need, but it hits harder than you think. This is just false, 120 isn't a benchmark. Explain hat the power comes from the high BP of Gknot but that Victree in general is still relatively weak. With access to Sleep Powder, Victreebel can decapitate a check for most of or the entire match, like Kyogre or Latias. Grass Knot, the STAB, hits the vast number of heavy Pokemon in the metagame hard, whereas Weather Ball nukes steels like Ferrothorn and Forretress, while dealing respectable damage to Dialga. It 2HKOs offensive variants HP Rock hits Ho-Oh hard, OHKOs after Rocks, you don't really need to be super specific with calcs but it's nice to know when Victreebel can actually KO things and forms fire-grass-rock coverage that is unresisted by the whole metagame. Not even worth mentioning because this coverage is still very weak, it's like praising Discharge plus HP Ice coverage However, Hidden Power Ice hits Dragons like Rayquaza harder than anything else. HP Rock is usually the better choice, as most Dragons are bulky enough to stomach Hidden Power Ice from Victreebel.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

A modest nature can be used for more power, but Choice Scarf users, like Genesect and Palkia, will outspeed Victreebel and KO it. Say that it shouldn't be used because being slower than these Pokemon is terrible Solarbeam can be used for consistent 120 base power, but the high number of Kyogres and Tyranitars will neuter Solarbeam. This shouldn't even be in AC, it should be in OO explaining why using this move is terrible Giga Drain increases longetivity, but Victreebel is so fragile, all it will do is mitigate Life Orb recoil. Should be moved to OO as well, it's weak and isn't keeping Victree around any longer. You should be warning people against it Growth can be used to power up Victreebel, but it is so hard to set up; however, Sleep Powder can secure a free turn. Finally, Sludge Bomb is a secondary STAB that can be used,despite not having great coverage.

This set obviously needs Groudon to work to power up the sun; Bell also appreciates It laying down Stealth Rock to wear down the opponent. A Fire type is a good partner on a sun team, so Ho-Oh and Reshiram make good teammates. Why? How is a fire type helping Bell? Rayquaza and Kyogre can be annoying; Extremekiller Arceus can handle both, What? He's not even switching in nor can he KO healthy ones. as well as the Lati twins and anything else that can outspeed or wall Victreebel. Palkia appreciates a Toxic Spikes absorber, and can check Kyogre for Victreebel. This should be filled with teamates that can switch into pokemon that stop Victreebel (which you don't seem to knowtoo much who they are in the first place) or can lure them out, etc. I suggest you play with this set more so that you find out what these problem mons are and ways to deal with them.

[Other Options]

Victreebel has some tricks in its giant gut that have not been mentioned. A mixed set can be used of Growth/Grass Knot/Weather Ball/Sucker Punch to beat the Lati twins easier, but that is better left to Shiftry, who has STAB Sucker Punch, as well as a wider movepool that can be tailored to its teams' needs. I can't blame you for this since shiftry's analysis is outdated but his best set is Leaf Storm/HP Fire/Foul PLay/Dark Pulse. HOwever, you really shouldn't be comparing the two, the reason Sucker Punch sucks is because Victreebel is already fast so the Priority doesn't help and it's a very unreliable coverage move. A Swords Dance set can be used with Power Whip and Sucker Punch, but its reliance on Sucker Punch for coverage can render it inefficient. Yes, like you do here. Giga Drain and Solarbeam can be used for alternative grass STABs, but Grass Knot is better suited for the ubers metagame. This isn't exactly true. Solarbeam is just a bad move because of opposing weather but Giga Drain is a viable move in Ubers just not on something weak and fragile like Victreebel. Stun Spore can be used to paralyze threats like Shaymin-S and Kyogre, but Victreebel is so fragile, that it should really leave paralysis to bulkier Pokemon, like Kyogre and Jirachi. Finally, Encore can lock an opponent into a bad move for 3 turns, but Sleep Powder is better.

[Checks and Counters]
It is not that hard to mess up Victreebel, as long as you avoid Sleep Powder. Priority users, like Arceus, Deoxys-A, and Rayquaza can easily revenge kill the giant gut. Kyogre can replace the sun with infinite layers of rain, but it must watch for Grass Knot, which will hit it hard, though Choice Scarf can get around it if it does not switch in in the middle of a turn. Just leave it at that it needs to be caerful for Gknot and mention that Ttar/HIppo can be sued to change the weather too. Chansey just sits there in front of Victreebel; although it does not appreciate being poisoned by Sludge Bomb, it can simply just switch out, courtesy of Natural Cure. Rayquza must watch for Sleep Powder, Hidden Power Ice, and Sludge Bomb, but its Air Lock ability allows it to outspeed and KO Victreebel. Finally, Manaphy can be a pain in the neck if sleep clause is up, because it takes a pittance from Grass Knot due to its very light weight.
There aren't even mentions of Giratina or Latias, here. You'll also need to explain what it fails to beat when opting for HP Ice/Sludge over HP ROck etc. I suggest you play with this set more to learn more about what stops it.
Also you should be using <p></p> tags for every paragraph and move the skeleton to the bottom of the analysis.
 

Governess

A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
#10
Hihi, GP Check! Nice job on this. :)

Additions / Changes
Removes
Comments


[Overview]

<p>Victreebel looks like an oddball in such a vicious metagame, but it has its advantages over Venusaur;. it still retains Chlorophyll and Sleep Powder, but it also has access to Weather Ball, which eliminates the need for Hidden Power Fire, allowing Victreebel to run Hidden Power Rock / or Ice if desired. As a result, Victreebel can find some space for on sun teams wanting an alternative for Venusaur. However, like Venusaur, Victreebel struggles a bit in this metagame; Victreebel is ridiculously fragile, (RC) and really cannot take a hit. Priority users like such as ExtremekKiller Arceus and Scizor can take it out relatively quickly. The only thing it Victreebel has going for it defensively is the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes. However, despite these flaws, Victreebel can still be good if you want to be different differenciate from the rest and not use Venusaur, though but neither of them are particularly great.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Weather Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Sludge Bomb
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is Victreebel's best set with the big boys in Ubers. A base 100 base SpA Special Attack is looks impossible to work with unusable in a metagame filled with crazy amounts of power Pokemon with unimaginable power, but it hits harder than you think. With access to Sleep Powder, Victreebel can decapitate a check, (AC) such as Kyogre or Latias, (AC) for most of or the entire match, like Kyogre or Latias. Grass Knot, the is Victreebel's STAB, hittings the vast number of heavy Pokemon in the metagame hard, whereas Weather Ball nukes nails steels Steel-types like such as Ferrothorn and Forretress, (AC) while dealing respectable damage to Dialga, and 2HKOing offensive variants. HP Hidden Power Rock hits Ho-Oh hard, OHKOing it after Stealth Rock. Sludge Bomb hits Blaziken and other threats for neutral coverage.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>A mModest nature can be used for more power, but Choice Scarf users, like such as Genesect, Terrakion, and Palkia, will be able to outspeed and KO Victreebel and KO it, (RC) which is just flat out mediocre. Growth can be used to power up Victreebel, but it is so hard to set up, and the ability to run three attacks is Victreebel's advantage over Venusaur; however, Sleep Powder can secure a free turn. Hidden Power Ice hits Salamence and Rayquaza, but other Dragon-types aside from Garchomp can stomach it.</p>

<p>This set obviously needs Groudon to work to power up set up the sun; Bell Victreebel also appreciates it laying down Stealth Rock to wear down the opponent. Victreebel also likes Spikes support to wear down the opponent into KO range, so Deoxys-A and Deoxys-S are good candidates to get down those Spikes set them up. Rayquaza can easily revenge kill Victreebel, so Pokemon that can check Rayquaza checks, like such as Choice Scarf Genesect, bulky Arceus, and Heatran, (AC) are good teammates. Palkia and Latias are also good teammates for Victreebel, as they can take care of Kyogre. Victreebel has problems with specially bulky pPokemon, such as the Lati twins, Chansey, and the Giratina formes, (RC) and so on. Ho-Oh is great for taking out the Pokemon that wall Victreebel, as it is immune to burns, (RC) and does not care about being phazed out. Ho-Oh can also dispatch Scizor, who which is quite troublesome with his its Technician and STAB-boosted Bullet Punch.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Victreebel has some tricks in its giant gut that have not been mentioned. A mixed set can be used of Growth/Grass Knot/Weather Ball/Sucker Punch (Add a space before AND after the /'s: Growth / Grass Knot / Weather Ball / Sucker Punch.) to beat the Lati twins easier, but Victreebel does not really need the priority Sucker Punch offers because it is so fast, and it is not very reliable as a coverage move. A Swords Dance set can be used with Power Whip and Sucker Punch, but its reliance on Sucker Punch for coverage can render it inefficient. Giga Drain and SolarbBeam can be used for alternative grass Grass-type STABs, but Grass Knot is better suited for Victreebel; Solarbeam is not very reliable in a metagame filled with weather inducers and Tyranitars, and Giga Drain is not very useful on such a weak pPokemon. Stun Spore can be used to paralyze threats like such as Shaymin-S and Kyogre, but Victreebel is so fragile, (RC) that it should really leave spreading paralysis to bulkier Pokemon, (RC) like such as Kyogre and Jirachi. Finally, Encore can lock an opponent into a bad an undesirable move for 3 three turns, but Sleep Powder is generally the better option.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
(add space)
<p>It is not that hard to mess up KO Victreebel, (RC) as long as you avoid Sleep Powder. It also lacks a bit of power, (RC) and cannot OHKO /or 2HKO too many Pokemon. Giratina and Giratina-O are the best counters to Victreebel; they resist Grass Knot and Weather Ball, (RC) and can use RestTalk to avoid the debilitating status of sleep;. Giratina-A also tends to run use Magic Coat, which can ruin Victreebel. Choice Scarf Zekrom can run Sleep Talk and KO Victreebel with Outrage or Dragon Claw. Choiced Ho-Oh can also can carry Sleep Talk, but it dislikes Hidden Power Rock. There are also many specially bulky pPokemon, aside from the Giratina formes, that can wall or handle Victreebel, such as Lugia, Chansey, Blissey, Lugia, Deoxys-D, Heatran, Manaphy, the Lati twins, Dragonceus Arceus-Dragon, and some other specially bulky Arceus, though but they must be careful about switching into a Sleep Powder. Tentacruel is a bit situational, as it needs Ice Beam or a Scald burn to do much to Victreebel, but it is 4HKOed by Grass Knot, making it somewhat reliable. Defensive Dialga can cause Victreebel some problems, but the offensive variants are 2HKOed by Weather Ball. Espeon and Xatu will not appreciate switching into Weather Ball, but the wrong prediction can put Victreebel to sleep due to Magic Bounce.</p>

<p>Victreebel also has a huge slew of offensive checks due to how fragile and weak it can be. Priority users, like such as Arceus, Deoxys-A, and Giratina-A, (AC) can easily revenge kill the giant gut. Rayquaza really does not like Hidden Power Ice, Hidden Power Rock, or Sleep Powder, but it can outspeed and KO Victreebel, courtesy of Air Lock. Choice Scarf Mewtwo outspeeds Victreebel and can KO it with Psystrike; the same thing this also applies to Choice Scarf Shaymin-S with its Air Slash. Choice Scarf Kyogre cannot switch into on Victreebel, but it removes the sun and KOes it with Ice Beam.</p>

<p>Taking away Victreebel's beloved sun can easily cripple it very much. Kyogre can replace the sun with infinite layers of rain, but it must watch for Grass Knot, which will hit it hard; the same thing applies to Hippowdon's and Tyranitar, (AC) with both if them being able to summon sandstormSandstorm, as well as Tyranitar's. As mentioned before, (RC) Rayquaza has problems switching into Victreebel, but its Air Lock nullifies Sun any weather conditions, allowing it to outspeed and KO it. Thundurus can only really switch in on Grass Knot, but it has priority Thunder Wave to essentially cripple it Victreebel. Victreebel is also very weak, and it relies on having its counters asleep to take then out a counter, so if you keep those two things in mind whenile teambuilding, it should not be a problem.</p>

1/2
 

shrang

Kylowole is shredded
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
#11
Can we hold off on the last GP check for just a little bit, I want to consult the other QC members over a couple of things first.
 

Blast

That's not right
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Moderator
#13
Amcheck, great job @Alfalfa !

ADD
REMOVE
COMMENTS


[Overview]

<p>Victreebel looks like an oddball in such a vicious metagame, but it has its advantages over Venusaur; it still retains access to Chlorophyll and Sleep Powder, but it also has access to Weather Ball, which eliminates the need for Hidden Power Fire on its movesets. (change to period) allowing This allows Victreebel to run Hidden Power Rock or Ice if desired. As a result, Victreebel can find some space for a place on sun teams wanting an alternative for Venusaur. However, like Venusaur, Victreebel struggles a bit in this metagame; Victreebel is ridiculously fragile and really cannot take a hit. Priority users such as Extreme Killer (Extreme Killer, not ExtremeKiller if I'm not mistaken) Arceus and Scizor can take it out relatively quickly. The only thing Victreebel has going for it defensively is the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes. Despite these flaws, Victreebel has some notable perks as a Chlorophyll user that cannot be ignored, making it a worthy competitor in Ubers.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Weather Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ice
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is Victreebel's best set with the big boys in Ubers. A base 100 Special Attack looks impossible to work with in a metagame with such unimaginable power, but it hits harder than you think. With access to Sleep Powder, Victreebel can decapitate incapacitate ("Decapitate" means to cut somebody's head off :p.) a check, such as Kyogre or Latias, for most of or the entire match. Grass Knot is Victreebel's STAB, hitting the vast number of heavy Pokemon in the metagame hard. (change to period) whereas Weather Ball nails Steel-types like Ferrothorn and Forretress, while dealing respectable damage to Dialga, 2HKOing offensive variants. Hidden Power Rock hits Ho-Oh hard, OHKOing it after Stealth Rock. However, Hidden Power Ice hits deals more damage to Rayquaza, who would otherwise be troublesome to Victreebel.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>A Modest nature can be used for more power, but then Choice Scarf users, such as Genesect, Terrakion, and Palkia, will outspeed Victreebel. Growth can be used to power up Victreebel, but it is so incredibly hard to set up, and the ability to run three attacks is Victreebel's advantage over Venusaur. (change to period) Hhowever, Sleep Powder can secure a free turn to potentially set up a Growth. Sludge Bomb does not hit too many things super effectively, but it is a secondary STAB that has good neutral coverage with Grass Knot and Weather Ball.</p>

<p>This set obviously needs sun support from Groudon to work to set up the sun; Victrebell Victreebel also appreciates it Groudon laying down Stealth Rock to wear down the opponent. Victreebel also likes Spikes support to wear down bring the opponent down into KO range, so Deoxys-A and Deoxys-S are good candidates to partners as they can set them up. Rayquaza can easily revenge kill Victreebel, so Pokemon that check Rayquaza, like Choice Scarf Genesect, bulky Arceus, and Heatran, (AC) are good teammates. Palkia and Latias are also good teammates for Victreebel, as they can take care of Kyogre, another major check to Victreebel. Victreebel has problems with specially bulky Pokemon, such as the Lati twins, Chansey, and the Giratina formes. Ho-Oh is great for taking out the Pokemon that wall Victreebel, as it is immune to burns and does not care about mind being phazed out thanks to Regenerator. Ho-Oh can also dispatch Scizor, who is quite troublesome with its Technician and STAB-boosted Bullet Punch.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Victreebel has some tricks in its giant gut that have not been mentioned. A mixed set can be used consisting of Growth / Grass Knot / Weather Ball / Sucker Punch can be used to beat the Lati twins easier, but Victreebel is fast enough so that it does not really need the priority Sucker Punch offers because it is so fast, and it is not very reliable as a coverage move. A Swords Dance set can be used with Power Whip and Sucker Punch, but its reliance on Sucker Punch for coverage can render it inefficient. Giga Drain and SolarBeam can be used for alternative Grass-type STABs, but Grass Knot is a better suited choice for Victreebel; SolarBeam is not very reliable in a metagame filled with weather inducers like Kyogres and Tyranitars, and Giga Drain is not very useful strong enough on such a weak pokemon. Stun Spore can be used to paralyze threats, such as Shaymin-S and Kyogre, but Victreebel is so fragile (RC) that it should really leave spreading paralysis to bulkier Pokemon, such Kyogre and Jirachi. Finally, Encore can lock an opponent into an undesirable move for 3 turns, but Sleep Powder is generally the better option.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
(Add a space here)
<p>It is not that hard to KO defeat Victreebel, as long as you avoid Sleep Powder. It also lacks a bit of power and cannot OHKO or 2HKO too many Pokemon. Giratina and Giratina-O are the best counters to Victreebel; they resist Grass Knot and Weather Ball and can use RestTalk to avoid the debilitating status of sleep. Giratina-A also tends to use Magic Coat, which can ruin Victreebel. Choice Scarf Zekrom can run utilize Sleep Talk and KO Victreebel with Outrage or Dragon Claw. Choiced variants of Ho-Oh can can also tend to carry Sleep Talk, but it dislikes Hidden Power Rock. There are also many specially bulky Pokemon, aside from the Giratina formes, that can wall or handle Victreebel, such as Lugia, Chansey, Blissey, Lugia, Deoxys-D, Heatran, Manaphy, the Lati twins, Arceus-Dragon, and some other specially bulky Arceus, though they must be careful about switching into a Sleep Powder. Tentacruel is a bit situational, as it needs Ice Beam or a Scald burn to do much to Victreebel, but it is 4HKOed by Grass Knot, making it somewhat reliable a decent check. Defensive Dialga can cause Victreebel some problems, but the offensive variants are 2HKOed by Weather Ball. Espeon and Xatu will not appreciate switching into Weather Ball, but the wrong prediction can put Victreebel to sleep due to Magic Bounce.</p>

<p>Victreebel also has a huge slew of offensive checks due to how fragile and weak it can be is. Priority users, such as Arceus, Deoxys-A, and Giratina, (AC) can easily revenge kill the giant gut. Rayquaza really does not like hates Hidden Power Ice, Hidden Power Rock, or and Sleep Powder, but it can outspeed and KO Victreebel, courtesy of Air Lock. Choice Scarf Mewtwo outspeeds Victreebel and can KO it with Psystrike; this also applies to Choice Scarf Shaymin-S with its Air Slash. Choice Scarf Kyogre cannot switch into Victreebel, but it removes the sun and KOes it with Ice Beam.</p> I took off the last sentence because you're already mentioning Kyogre in the next paragraph, so it makes it kind of redundant.

<p>Taking away Victreebel's beloved sun can easily cripple it. Kyogre can replace the sun with rain, but it must watch for Grass Knot, which will hit it hard; the same thing applies to Hippowdon and Tyranitar, with both of them being able to who can both summon a sandstorm. Rayquaza has problems switching into Victreebel, but its Air Lock any weather conditions, allowing it to outspeed and KO it. You already mentioned that in the last paragraph. Thundurus can only switch in on Grass Knot, but it has priority Thunder Wave to essentially cripple Victreebel. Victreebel is also very weak, and relies on having its counters asleep to take them out, so if you keep those two things in mind while teambuilding, it should not be a problem. </p>
 

GatoDelFuego

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@Alfalfa

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[Overview]

<p>Victreebel looks like an oddball in such a vicious metagame, but it has its advantages over Venusaur; it retains access to Chlorophyll and Sleep Powder, but also has access to Weather Ball, which eliminates the need for Hidden Power Fire. This allows Victreebel to run Hidden Power Rock or Ice if desired. As a result, Victreebel can hold a place on sun teams wanting as an alternative for Venusaur. However Victreebel struggles a bit in this metagame; Victreebel is ridiculously fragile and really cannot take a hit. Priority users such Extreme Killer Arceus and Scizor can take it out relatively quickly. The only thing Victreebel has going for it defensively is the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes. Despite these flaws, Victreebel has some notable perks as a Chlorophyll user, making it a worthy competitor in Ubers.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Weather Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ice
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is Victreebel's best set with the big boys in Ubers. A base 100 Special Attack looks impossible to work with in a metagame with such unimaginable power, but it hits harder than you think. With access to Sleep Powder, Victreebel can incapacitate a check, such as Kyogre or Latias, for most of or the entire match. Grass Knot is Victreebel's STAB, hitting the vast number of heavy Pokemon in the metagame hard. Weather Ball nails Steel-types like such as Ferrothorn and Forretress, while dealing respectable damage to Dialga, 2HKOing offensive variants. Hidden Power Rock hits Ho-Oh hard, OHKOing it after Stealth Rock. I feel OHKOing Ho-Oh at half health isn't really an accomplishment...it could get confusing if left as "ohko" instead of "ko" However, Hidden Power Ice deals more damage to Rayquaza, Zekrom, and Giratina-O, whom which would otherwise be troublesome to Victreebel.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>A Modest nature can be used for more power, but then Choice Scarf users, such as Genesect, Terrakion, and Palkia, will outspeed Victreebel. Growth can be used to power up Victreebel, but it is incredibly hard to set up, and the ability to run three attacks is Victreebel's advantage over Venusaur. However, Sleep Powder can secure a free turn to set up a Growth. Sludge Bomb does not hit too many things super effectively, but it is a secondary STAB that has good neutral coverage with Grass Knot and Weather Ball.</p>

<p>This set obviously needs sun support from Groudon; Victreebel also appreciates it laying down Stealth Rock to wear down the opponent. Victreebel also likes Spikes support to bring the opponent down into KO range, so Deoxys-A and Deoxys-S are good partners, as they can set them up. Rayquaza can easily revenge kill Victreebel, so Pokemon that check Rayquaza, like Choice Scarf Genesect, bulky Arceus, and Heatran, (AC) are good teammates. Palkia and Latias are also good teammates for Victreebel, as they can take care of Kyogre, another major check to Victreebel, as it removes Victreebel's precious sun. Victreebel has problems with specially bulky Pokemon, such as the Lati twins, Chansey, and the Giratina formes. Ho-Oh is great for taking out the Pokemon that wall Victreebel, as it is immune to burns and does not mind being phazed out, (RC) thanks to Regenerator. Ho-Oh can also dispatch Scizor, who which is quite troublesome with its Technician-boosted STAB Bullet Punch.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Victreebel has some tricks in its giant gut that have not been mentioned. A mixed set consisting of Growth / Grass Knot / Weather Ball / Sucker Punch can be used to beat the Lati twins easier, but Victreebel is fast enough so that it is does not really need the priority Sucker Punch offers, and it is not very reliable as a coverage move. A Swords Dance set can be used with Power Whip and Sucker Punch, but its reliance on Sucker Punch for coverage can render it inefficient. Giga Drain and SolarBeam can be used for alternative Grass-type STABs, but Grass Knot is a better choice for Victreebel; SolarBeam is not very reliable in a metagame filled with Kyogre and Tyranitar, and Giga Drain is not strong enough on such a weak Pokemon. Stun Spore can be used to paralyze threats, such as Shaymin-S and Kyogre, but Victreebel is so fragile, (RC) that it should really leave spreading paralysis to bulkier Pokemon, such Kyogre and Jirachi. Finally, Encore can lock an opponent into an undesirable move for 3 turns, but Sleep Powder is generally the better option.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>It is not that hard to defeat Victreebel, (RC) as long as you avoid Sleep Powder. It also lacks a bit of power and cannot OHKO or 2HKO too many Pokemon. Giratina and Giratina-O are the best counters to Victreebel; they resist Grass Knot and Weather Ball and can use RestTalk to make the most out of being asleep avoid the debilitating status of sleep. Giratina-A also tends to use Magic Coat, which can ruin Victreebel. Choice Scarf Zekrom can utilize Sleep Talk and KO Victreebel with Outrage or Dragon Claw. Choiced variants of Ho-Oh also tend to carry Sleep Talk, but it dislikes Hidden Power Rock. There are also many specially bulky Pokemon, aside from the Giratina formes, that can wall or handle Victreebel, such as Lugia, Chansey, Blissey, Lugia, Deoxys-D, Heatran, Manaphy, the Lati twins, Arceus-Dragon, and some other specially bulky Arceus, though they must be careful about switching into a Sleep Powder. Tentacruel needs Ice Beam or a Scald burn to do much to Victreebel, but it is 4HKOed by Grass Knot, making it a decent check. Defensive Dialga can cause Victreebel some problems, but the offensive variants are 2HKOed by Weather Ball. Espeon and Xatu will not appreciate switching into Weather Ball, but the wrong right prediction can put Victreebel to sleep due to Magic Bounce.</p>

<p>Victreebel also has a huge slew of offensive checks due to how fragile and weak it is. Priority users, such as Arceus, Deoxys-A, and Giratina, (AC) can easily revenge kill it the giant gut. Rayquaza hates Hidden Power Ice, Hidden Power Rock, and Sleep Powder, but it can outspeed and KO Victreebel, (RC) courtesy of Air Lock. Choice Scarf Mewtwo outspeeds Victreebel and can KO it with Psystrike; this also applies to Choice Scarf Shaymin-S with Air Slash.</p>

<p>Taking away Victreebel's beloved sun can easily cripple it. Kyogre can replace the sun with rain, but it must watch for Grass Knot; the same thing applies to Hippowdon and Tyranitar, who which can both summon a sandstorm. Thundurus can only switch in on Grass Knot, but it has priority Thunder Wave to essentially cripple Victreebel. Victreebel is also very weak, and relies on having its counters asleep to take them out, so keep those two things in mind while teambuilding, (RC) and it should not be a problem.</p>


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