https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kZutaRI-ucZcsalskA4dL_ld-zUoC-74SXneWKEo-e0/edit#gid=0
like 90% of the info was from me ._.
like 90% of the info was from me ._.
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Big Wayne Bradiest Mafia - Game Over - 13 Winners
- Thread starter Ampharos
- Start date
For the record I agree with many of your concerns and Wayne Bradierest is already set to address each one of them.
Anyway, here is my sheet.
Early on I knew that I wanted to make a much smaller alliance than I had last game (Wayne Bradier) with only people who were extremely compatible with me win-condition wise. I was fortunate in that both of my +/-2 allies were reasonably active, and I added rssp1 before anyone else; frankly in this game I was mostly just concerned about mortal enemies, because 3/6 just felt so meaningless and more like a carrot I could dangle to other players who knew less than I did in order to manipulate where attacks were headed rather than real targets of mine.
Anyway I swapped win cons with a little over half the game and, after being told by aska that he was pretty sure he had a functional enemy circle (which turns out, after no meager amount of thought, to be a linear transformation of my own enemy circle), I decided to spend an hour or two putting everything together; with the information I had, I was just able to do it by setting up most of the circle with deadlies, checking for secondary enemy patterns, and using those to fill in the remaining gaps.
With the enemy circle completed, I was able to figure out who everyone was (even those who were lying) with only a small amount of information trading after that. I pretty quickly isolated DLE/Ullar/Reinfleche as my mortal enemies, but unfortunately in this game alias information is a bit hard to tie to users without a few cycles to enemy check so I was a bit concerned.
The rest of Cycle 1 I pretty much spent setting up a support network of collaborators (principally epicsnorlax/Aubisio/askaninjask/verypinkpancakes/nomark/shade/elcheeso/Agape), who were all working with me and, apart from Agape (who had penguin in his group of 6) did not need any of my core alliance members in their win conditions at all. I also set up communications with a bunch of 'orange' players, aka players who were in at least one group of 6 but weren't necessary for the alliance to kill to win (twin/zorbees/Flyhn/phoenix/RBG/Dullagamur). Anyway I coordinated as many enemy checks as I could, set up people to attack a few different targets but had my core alliances members attack LightWolf only, because I did not want to risk someone who was attacking our target outing that target and ruining our damage output; frankly, I didn't care much who we hit, because it wasn't going to be anyone we were working with. It turned out to be Snype of course, which was about as bad a rand as we could've made out of who it could be, but what can you do, a rands a rand. We also randlynched WolfWolf iirc, also on the basis of 'anyone who isn't with us will do'.
Anyway so C2 comes around and...practically nothing hit except for epicsnorlax hitting Reinfleche aka NoOralSexWolf. The kill was meh (though that role lategame would've been ass to deal with I guess), WolfWolf didn't die, SNUFFWolf didn't die like I had hoped he would (though the damage some of my collaborators did ended up helping finish him off later). Then I was informed a gigantic anti-US alliance had formed and they weren't just going to let us lynch SkankWolf for a free finisher but were instead going to lynch DarkWolf AKA El Cheeso. Honestly we debated whether or not to use the lynch redirect today after it became obvious we couldn't win the lynch and I think we would've if the lynch had done 100% damage, but we decided to save it for later (which imo was a wise decision).
However, I think it was at this point the anti-US alliance fucked up pretty hard by....all voting. Like every single one. This gave us a virtual who's-who hitlist to run through that were virtually all hard enemies of ours. So I basically put all of my collaborators on various anti-US voters in one manner or another, but as many anti-Kiryuin people on von as possible so that aska's alias wouldn't be leaked if von did decide to turn on him (aska was never meant to learn of this since he had accidentally leaked von's alias and felt terrible about it, but apparently word spread from someone and he felt bad anyway rip. It's a pity because aska was really trying to be trustworthy this game but he got super paranoid von was stabbing him fsr and requested a hook on InstakillWolf C1, a request he later retracted but I put the pieces together pretty easily). My alliance went on NoOralSexWolf with a few others (like epicsnorlax) and I think we also hit InstakillWolf to ensure both kills were certain.
It was the Enemy Checks C2 that really set us up to win the game though; Reinfleche and von dying helped us a lot certainly, but all four of the alliance and a bunch of my collaborators all hit enemies with our checks because our enemies had basically announced themselves in the thread. We hit DLE/Twin/Flyhn with enemy checks of our own, and after wrangling Twin's alias out of him we decided to hit DeadHookerWolf (who we ended up killing with like 20 damage lol). Apparently DLE thought being trapped in a Dungeon would save him, rip lol can't really blame you. I didn't want to hit Twin or Flyhn however so we put the rest of our damage on SNUFFWolf because we knew he was heavily damaged and was voting against us, and it turned out that after this day was over all three of my deadlies were dead lol.
C4 and C5 pretty much just became a massive snowball after that, the anti-US alliance pretty much broke down with their core members dead and many of them idling to boot. Only Cancerous/Blazade were real concerns from that point on (though it took an annoyingly long amount of time to find them because neither voted lol), but eventually people just started giving me their aliases so I wouldn't rand them and that narrowed things down a lot. Eventually all I needed was RBG/Aubisio's alias but since I didn't need either dead I never bothered asking Aubisio for his, so he ended up winning while being the only person whose alias I never knew in the entire game!
It was a good game overall, much better than Bradier and with much more emphasis on collaboration to succeed (and symmetric win conditions). However, I do think that the lack of protection roles, which has been mentioned previously, was a pretty major flaw that severely limited counterplay.
Anyway, time for me to give shout-outs to my allies:
rssp1/PBlade/penguin were all amazing allies to work with, thanks so much for all your help, for not selling anyone out, and well done to you all for the victory!
askaninjask was great to work with, if a little jumpy at times. It took fucking forever to find Sly Cooper, and he took a ton of damage, but he definitely deserved this win and was extremely helpful to me the entire game without demanding a ton in return, so I'm very glad I was ultimately able to help him get over the hump of an FFA game and finish this one in the winners' column!
Aubisio/El Cheeso were both hard and fast allies of my role based on win conditions, and both pretty much did the smart thing of just trusting I had their best interests at heart and not selling me out or panicking (even when Cheeso was on low hp...). Well done to you both, and thanks for your help!
Whydon/internet was a bit AFK but he helped me when he responded so congrats on the win, hope you stick around and stay active! I do think your role was a bit OP though :p
Ditto and phoenix were both originally orange players before switching to blue a few cycles in when penguin's group of six dropped like flies, and both were extremely helpful to me and I hope I was helpful in return.
Agape was extremely helpful to me and honestly the dichotomy between Agape vs. verypinkpancakes and Nomark was one of the toughest in the game for me, because all three were super helpful to me throughout the game so I didn't feel comfortable selling any of them out to the other(s). I decided to just let them settle it after I left the game, though I think I would've preferred if vpp and Nomark had won because then more total people win and Nomark in particular I felt deserved this win; being the last player alive who doesn't win really sucks in a FFA game but frankly Agape's role was so stupid broken I'm not sure there was much to be done about it...
Outside of that epicsnorlax was the only real ally of mine that lost, I'm sorry that you got randed so early because we were really compatible win-con wise and you were really helpful in finding Apollo Justice and finishing Walrein. Just not much to do when you take 15 damage by C3 though with the role distribution as it was X_X
Sorry to shade/Snype who just got randed, not much to do there though at least I wasn't responsible for shade's loss. Snype if you had talked to me more I'd have run LightWolf as a target by you but you made it very clear you weren't interested in dealing with me so :(
Flyhn was a good info trading partner and I left him alone for like four cycles for that reason, but eventually Ditto needed to be told his alias to win and Flyhn wasn't collaborating on attacks/had joined the anti-US alliance and voted against me twice early on so I didn't feel too badly giving Ditto his alias during C6.
Outside of that I think only zorbees and twin lost who I had much of a cordial relationship with, zorbees because phoenix was a much better ally than he was (and zorbees had been actively trying to sabotage me in the early goings) and twin because, well, I couldn't find Sly Cooper or Bob Belcher and Ditto needed you dead :(
Anyway I'm glad that as many of my allies won as realistically could, and that no one who was entirely enemies with me won (even Dullagamur told me her (?) alias at some point). Sorry to my collaborators who didn't win, most particularly verypinkpancakes, epicsnorlax, and Nomark, all of whom could've won if they just hadn't died before their enemies died lol (or didn't have OP Dungeon Man as an enemy...)
GG and well played to all, and thanks for hosting Walrein and Yeti!
thanks for describing the entire game
Yeah Sam definitely deserved the win lol that was a lot of effort and I guess it can be a bit frustrating when so many people are willing to buy in and just hand him all that info. I wish I could go out into the street and have kids line up baking cookies just so they can share in the privilege of having me smell them.
The D.Vengers weren't just anti-Sam (I had figured Sam and aska had about 8 people each as well at the time I got everyone involved), they were the team I wanted to make early on, the goal being to prioritize killing about n+2 people for an n person alliance to all win together. Got really hammered by real life obligations so no time to carry that kind of burden and no one else got moving that quickly either. Twin and I had gotten a lot of the win con info together by C1, which really helped me figure some stuff out so I could catch up ASAP.
As an alliance we didn't have a lot of confidence in each other or a lot of initiative. We got reasonably lucky with a few of the enemy checks and had a couple targets laid out, but not a lot of incredibly active abilities to help things move our way. Most of us just kinda sat there and healed themselves until they got caught jerking off like the host of this game, and none of that healing capacity was close to as devastating as Surge or Scrappy's longevity (At the very least, Jan Brady should have been an enemy of those guys, this is the kind of thing I was talking about earlier). We also had both the investigators, one hooker, a persuader, and me. We did have a few of us vote to try to get things going our way, but not all of us as Sam implies. Maybe we just throw every lynch there but we were already pretty behind on momentum and sparse in damage abilities. Something's gotta give.
I wondered all game who sold my alias out and after asking Sam it turns out it was Agape, a man who shared 2 of my major enemies and only came into contact with me C4. Guess I can't trust that when the Sam Kool Aid is too strong but I figured it'd be Flyhn who kept mentioning other interests in the Sam alliance or King_ who sold out other people's info for trade since everyone knew his already. I tried to prioritize making a tight group over a wide group with Sam and aska's influence running about but even then it was tough to keep sane. To be fair I think it got out through a chain of people but it never should have gotten out of the circle to begin with. To be even more fair, by this point in the game we were already fucked which is why Agape was contacted in the first place.
Anyway I never felt I was doing all that well this game, I didn't even pick up any cool abilities (my role was sweet in theory though!), just a copy of a penis for hooking and zorbees' really clunky item making ability (which was cash?). There was a lot of stuff that didn't target which I couldn't copy floating around, even the investigative roles were phrased as passives lol. I talk to an enthusiastic Sam because he requested me as an ally, he completely ices over upon hearing my WC even though I'm only in the pool of 6. I finally get the bros together who are too idle to find each other, they start dropping like flies instantly. I try to distribute damage and get outsiders pointed in the right direction, and like 4 solid enemies get left with 1-4 HP before winning. I try to hide my alias, I get sold out by a by design best ally. God Damn if I didn't try though, and God Damn if it wasn't fun while it lasted. Shoutouts to the alliance. The fact that we stuck together even in defeat made me proud to work with you and we'll get it done next time.
The D.Vengers weren't just anti-Sam (I had figured Sam and aska had about 8 people each as well at the time I got everyone involved), they were the team I wanted to make early on, the goal being to prioritize killing about n+2 people for an n person alliance to all win together. Got really hammered by real life obligations so no time to carry that kind of burden and no one else got moving that quickly either. Twin and I had gotten a lot of the win con info together by C1, which really helped me figure some stuff out so I could catch up ASAP.
As an alliance we didn't have a lot of confidence in each other or a lot of initiative. We got reasonably lucky with a few of the enemy checks and had a couple targets laid out, but not a lot of incredibly active abilities to help things move our way. Most of us just kinda sat there and healed themselves until they got caught jerking off like the host of this game, and none of that healing capacity was close to as devastating as Surge or Scrappy's longevity (At the very least, Jan Brady should have been an enemy of those guys, this is the kind of thing I was talking about earlier). We also had both the investigators, one hooker, a persuader, and me. We did have a few of us vote to try to get things going our way, but not all of us as Sam implies. Maybe we just throw every lynch there but we were already pretty behind on momentum and sparse in damage abilities. Something's gotta give.
I wondered all game who sold my alias out and after asking Sam it turns out it was Agape, a man who shared 2 of my major enemies and only came into contact with me C4. Guess I can't trust that when the Sam Kool Aid is too strong but I figured it'd be Flyhn who kept mentioning other interests in the Sam alliance or King_ who sold out other people's info for trade since everyone knew his already. I tried to prioritize making a tight group over a wide group with Sam and aska's influence running about but even then it was tough to keep sane. To be fair I think it got out through a chain of people but it never should have gotten out of the circle to begin with. To be even more fair, by this point in the game we were already fucked which is why Agape was contacted in the first place.
Anyway I never felt I was doing all that well this game, I didn't even pick up any cool abilities (my role was sweet in theory though!), just a copy of a penis for hooking and zorbees' really clunky item making ability (which was cash?). There was a lot of stuff that didn't target which I couldn't copy floating around, even the investigative roles were phrased as passives lol. I talk to an enthusiastic Sam because he requested me as an ally, he completely ices over upon hearing my WC even though I'm only in the pool of 6. I finally get the bros together who are too idle to find each other, they start dropping like flies instantly. I try to distribute damage and get outsiders pointed in the right direction, and like 4 solid enemies get left with 1-4 HP before winning. I try to hide my alias, I get sold out by a by design best ally. God Damn if I didn't try though, and God Damn if it wasn't fun while it lasted. Shoutouts to the alliance. The fact that we stuck together even in defeat made me proud to work with you and we'll get it done next time.
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Thanks for that blazade.
To be honest I don't see a huge difference between rand-dying N1 in an FFA and dying in a team game where you can't communicate with your team posthumously (see: being a villager, or non-unified multifaction games). In both cases you can no longer participate in the game, it's just in team games you can randomly win in the end. But does winning really mean much when you didn't get to participate for 80% of the game anyway? Like, I died N1 in MP2 and it doesn't mean a lick to me that my faction won or lost because I didn't really get to play.
You could argue that this is a problem in those other formats too but idk what to really change about that. Randomly dying early sucks but unless your name is Reinfleche and it happens to you every game I don't think it's worth overhauling things
Also shoutout to shubaka for claiming Jack Sparrow to Sam and making him paranoid that I was stabbing him
Second shoutout to Sam for going to aska with the info I got from talking to him and making aska go "dude why the fuck did you blab" after aska told me not to tell people
Just want to put it out there that I was never on US's sheet but still was able to get the full circle - if I had been enemies with UncleSam this game would have gone quite differently, as there would have been another person with All Of The Info in the game, but alas we were friends WC wise, so my information was actually almost completely irrelevant in the end. Oh well.
vonFiedler It is 100% my fault that you lost, but it was not my intention :(
I was working out the win condition circle the first cycle of the game, and I had some misinformation about other people's roles (shubaka17 and a couple others) that led me to falsely believe that you had lied to me about your win condition. This raised red flags and I went to Sam asking if he could hook your alias. Honestly ended up being a huge mistake in like, every possible way on my end, as I ended up not getting the damage bonus, which I didn't realize was permanent, I lost you AND shade AND reinfleche that cycle, and I was left with Agape and Sam as my only allies itg. Really just a mistake from my end - it was my intention to win the game with you, and I'm sorry I was too paranoid to let that happen. :(
gg Sam, thanks for figuring out everyone's alias for me lol
Andy Snype
Mr. Music
I don't have as much time to play mafia as I used to so I tried to play this uncharacteristically with only aiming to trust as few people as necessary and keeping my head low. I intentionally asked for a late game role to hope to not get randed because for an early-game centric role I would have to put so much effort into this outside of work that I can't accomodate that with my schedule. Of course once I saw my alias, I admittedly played with self defeat because I found it much more likely for my enemies to have me dead, esp since I was sure I found one of my enemies within the first 3 people I talked to.
I just picked aska out of the blue, and from the conversation we had, I was under the assumption UncleSam coming up with a super alliance akin to ipl in fe2, which as we saw how THAT turned out made me quite suspicious of everyone. I knew that once an alias was out there and if I had indicated any hesitation to deny an alias, it should be linked as mine, esp with a higher chance to be randed (i'd have to appeal to other people to not attack it). In these types of games, you generally can't negotiate not taking damage as much as suggesting someone else to do so. If I survived past C2 or so, I would be a lot more willing to trade my alias because I would be sure that people would run out of "this guy's a definite enemy" through rands, which if I survived at that point, I would be so happy.
I wasn't as willing to trade information about me unless I knew that we had allies, which if you had pblade and VPP in your alliance UncleSam I contacted both of them and when I had honestly talked to only 4 people swapping people we needed dead, your instant "you're lying to someone and I don't like liars" made me feel you had a much larger alliance than you let on. I did not feel like putting in the effort to figure out the chain because I don't have the time to so I did not talk to more people, so I was much more hesitant on revealing that to you. aska gave himself more credibility than you did because aska at least told me people that I had mutual enemies with, so I was beginning to contact them. I indicated that I wanted to be on neutral terms with you Sam, not as an enemy nor as a trusted ally, because I did not want to fall into a trap of me getting recruited into an alliance with my mortal enemies by that point.
shoutouts to askaninjask for actually being reliable this time though and pointing me to Paperblade and VeryPinkPancakes i think vonfiedler might digress.
I just picked aska out of the blue, and from the conversation we had, I was under the assumption UncleSam coming up with a super alliance akin to ipl in fe2, which as we saw how THAT turned out made me quite suspicious of everyone. I knew that once an alias was out there and if I had indicated any hesitation to deny an alias, it should be linked as mine, esp with a higher chance to be randed (i'd have to appeal to other people to not attack it). In these types of games, you generally can't negotiate not taking damage as much as suggesting someone else to do so. If I survived past C2 or so, I would be a lot more willing to trade my alias because I would be sure that people would run out of "this guy's a definite enemy" through rands, which if I survived at that point, I would be so happy.
I wasn't as willing to trade information about me unless I knew that we had allies, which if you had pblade and VPP in your alliance UncleSam I contacted both of them and when I had honestly talked to only 4 people swapping people we needed dead, your instant "you're lying to someone and I don't like liars" made me feel you had a much larger alliance than you let on. I did not feel like putting in the effort to figure out the chain because I don't have the time to so I did not talk to more people, so I was much more hesitant on revealing that to you. aska gave himself more credibility than you did because aska at least told me people that I had mutual enemies with, so I was beginning to contact them. I indicated that I wanted to be on neutral terms with you Sam, not as an enemy nor as a trusted ally, because I did not want to fall into a trap of me getting recruited into an alliance with my mortal enemies by that point.
shoutouts to askaninjask for actually being reliable this time though and pointing me to Paperblade and VeryPinkPancakes i think vonfiedler might digress.
Flyhn gave me your info on cycle 2 then I used my info hook on you to confirm it. I intended to either blackmail you or make you my endgame mates, but never got around to actually do any of that. Then you just went and won on your own.
Okay, so here is how I played the game.
I get my role PM and realize that I could easily idle with this role and not die, which is basically what I did. Then UncleSam killed all of my enemies and I won. By the time I got to the late-game I was basically immune since I still had all of my health and my ability was pretty strong.
UncleSam contacted me a few times, I gave him all of the information I could which I hope he found to be beneficial. I think one time I told him that I enemy-checked someone and got back "Enemy" even though I enemy-checked like one person in the entire game, lmao.
and yeah that's pretty much it
I get my role PM and realize that I could easily idle with this role and not die, which is basically what I did. Then UncleSam killed all of my enemies and I won. By the time I got to the late-game I was basically immune since I still had all of my health and my ability was pretty strong.
UncleSam contacted me a few times, I gave him all of the information I could which I hope he found to be beneficial. I think one time I told him that I enemy-checked someone and got back "Enemy" even though I enemy-checked like one person in the entire game, lmao.
and yeah that's pretty much it
