Quality Control wdm this flight doesn't go to UU? (Mega Blastoise) [QC 1/2] [GP 0/2]

Collette

formerly Collesque
:sm/blastoise-mega: Stupid Fish :psyangry:

[OVERVIEW]
Mega Blastoise is a powerful special wallbreaker possessing great stats and a high base power STAB, with the coverage and status to deal with almost any switch-in. It has high defenses, making it hard to attempt to take down without sustaining significant damage in the process, and while it is outsped by Pokemon that can take it on like Gyarados and Zapdos, its speed is serviceable for a wallbreaker. The reason Mega Blastoise struggles to find itself on many teams is it is largely outclassed by Mega Gyarados, who is faster, bulkier, stronger, and has better offensive and defensive typing. Mega Blastoise offers a considerable special presence, threatening Melmetal more reliably, and is not weak to Stealth Rock prior to evolving, which may lead to it outperforming Mega Gyarados in some matchups, but this is uncommon, and there should always be a lot of consideration when it comes to choosing Mega Blastoise over Mega Gyarados.


[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Dragon Tail / Hydro Pump
move 4: Toxic / Dark Pulse
item: Blastoisinite
nature: Modest / Timid

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Information
========

Surf is Mega Blastoise's preferred STAB, offering a reliable 2HKO against Melmetal and most of the metagame, and can 2HKO Mew after rocks. Hydro Pump's extra power is often unnecessary and its poor accuracy can hinder Blastoise's performance, but it is preferred when using a Timid nature to compensate for lacking Modest's power. It's also an option if you just want an extra amount of power, which lets you KO faster Pokemon like Zapdos and Mew with less prior damage before they can roost, or have a chance to OHKO Pokemon like Gengar, Alolan Persian, and Eevee-S after Stealth Rock damage. Dragon Tail can be used on predicted switches to potentially rack up damage on the opponent's checks to Mega Blastoise, especially with Stealth Rock up. Ice Beam provides coverage for Grass-types like Mega Venusaur and Alolan Exeggutor, as well as Flying-types like Dragonite and Zapdos. Toxic hits Pokemon that could otherwise switch into and beat Mega Blastoise like Mew, Chansey, or Poliwrath, and hinders the longevity of Pokemon like Zapdos or Mega Charizard X. Dark Pulse 2HKOs Mew and prevents it from using Roost on Mega Blastoise, as well as is the best move to hit Starmie. Modest is greatly preferred over Timid to let Mega Blastoise more reliably break walls— however, a Timid nature lets it outspeed some crucial Pokemon like Mega Venusaur and Dragonite.

Usage Tips
========

Mega Blastoise's high defenses allow it to survive almost any single attack. To get the most value out of this it is best to preserve health whenever possible. Use U-turn support from the likes of Mew and Zapdos to get Mega Blastoise in safety. Blastoise will be primarily clicking Surf, which has great reliable damage against potential switch ins, or using Ice Beam to KO or severely damage Grass and Flying-type switch-ins. With the amount of damage you do to Mew on the switch, you force it to use Roost or be 2HKOd, giving you the opportunity to click Toxic. Alolan Muk cannot be dealt with using Toxic, but its lack of longevity means it can be taken down with repeated Surfs or Hydro Pumps. Mega Blastoise has potential to start wallbreaking very early on in the game as many players attempt to set up Stealth Rock with a Ground-type Pokemon that Mega Blastoise can force out. This comes with the added benefit of preventing them from safety setting up Stealth Rock. Dragon Tail is worth using when your opponent has limited Pokemon that can take on Mega Blastoise, as there is little risk of you bringing in a threat inadvertently. If you have conditioned the other player to expect a Dragon Tail, or their Surf answer is weakened sufficiently, Mega Blastoise should just attack directly.

Team Options
========

Zapdos is a great partner for Mega Blastoise, as it can force in and pivot with U-turn on Ground-types to grant Mega Blastoise a safe switch-in and an opportunity to apply offensive pressure. Zapdos also effectively handles Water-types that Mega Blastoise struggles with, like Poliwrath, Mega Gyarados, and Starmie, and can help in wearing down Mega Venusaur. Alolan Dugtrio and Nidoqueen switch into Zapdos, which heavily threatens Mega Blastoise, and potentially deter Zapdos from using Thunderbolt against Mega Blastoise. These Pokemon also are great users of Stealth Rock, which is very important for helping Mega Blastoise break down the opposing team. When choosing Mega Blastoise over it's Dark-type competition you might end up being weaker to Pokemon like Mega Alakazam and Nasty Plot Mew, Alolan Muk supports the team in this way and is a great pivot out of special moves that hit Mega Blastoise harder. Because Mega Blastoise is great at breaking down defensive cores and teams with Mega Blastoise lack fast Mega Pokemon like Mega Aerodactyl or Mega Alakazam, setup sweepers synergise very well with Mega Blastoise. Agility Dragonite and Shell Smash Cloyster fill this role well, with Cloyster notably sharing many common checks with Mega Blastoise and therefore benefiting greatly from its presence.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Earthquake could be used in the place of Toxic or Dragon Tail, as it 2HKOs Chansey and Alolan Muk, but achieves little else. Aqua Jet is also a niche option, able to pick off weakened Pokemon like Alolan Dugtrio, Mega Beedrill, and Mega Aerodactyl, but its low damage output means it isn't useful in many other situations. Scald is accurate and lets Mega Blastoise threaten Pokemon like Mega Gyarados and Poliwrath with a burn, but is weak enough for Mega Blastoise to miss out on many crucial damage benchmarks. It might find a home on a Bold nature'd set though, which lets Mega Blastoise abuse its lack of common weaknesses to switch into and beat Pokemon like Melmetal, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mega Beedrill, and check Dragonite and Mega Gyarados.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Zapdos**: While Zapdos cannot comfortably switch in without taking a large amount of damage, it immediately forces Mega Blastoise out, and has the ability to Roost and be able to check Mega Blastoise multiple times.

**Bulky Water-types**: Mega Gyarados and Poliwrath take very little damage from any of Mega Blastoise's moves, and can 3HKO in return with their STAB attacks. Starmie is less bulky, but can heal off any damage Mega Blastoise does and threatens back with Thunderbolt or status. None of these like taking a Toxic or Dragon Tail on the switch though, as they will quickly be worn down and become less useful as answers.

**Specially Bulky Pokemon** Chansey and Alolan Muk can switch into any special move relatively freely, and while Mew takes more, it can outspeed Mega Blastoise and heal off the damage. However Alolan Muk is 2HKOd by Earthquake, and Mew is a much worse answer when hit by Toxic. Both of these are true for Chansey.

**Mega Venusaur** Mega Venusaur can switch into any move and win 1v1 with Mega Drain, and it can take advantage of Mega Blastoise switching out by putting a teammate to sleep. However it cannot switch into Timid Mega Blastoise, because it can be 2HKOd by Ice Beam.


[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Collesque, 520031]]
- Quality checked by: [[Eve, 375272], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 
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Collette

formerly Collesque
Making edits after I have posted QC ready is unconventional and I apologize, but after testing a good amount I have decided that Dragon Tail is worthy of being first slash. I have moved EQ to OO, put a new section in Usage Tips, and covered Dragon Tail in Set Comments to reflect this. I am not mentioning it in overview as it is not a huge testament to its viability, because obviously its main competition in Mega Gyarados also possesses it.
 
Add Remove Comments
:sm/blastoise-mega: Stupid Fish :psyangry:

[OVERVIEW]
Mega Blastoise is a powerful special wallbreaker possessing great stats and a high base power STAB, with the coverage and status to deal with almost any switch-in. It has high defenses, making it hard to attempt to kill it and not face retaliation take down without sustaining significant damage in the process, and while leaving it is outsped by Pokemon that can take it on like Gyarados and Zapdos, its speed is serviceable for what Mega Blastoise does a wallbreaker. The reason Mega Blastoise struggles to find itself on many teams is it is hopelessly largely outclassed by Mega Gyarados, who is faster, bulkier, much stronger, it's not that much stronger when you factor in the option of Hydro Pump and has better defensive and offensive typing, as well as better coverage and status options a better typing and movepool. Mega Blastoise offers a considerable special presence, threatening Melmetal more reliably, and is not weak to Stealth Rock prior to evolving, which may lead to it outperforming Mega Gyarados in some matchups, but this is uncommon, and there should always be a lot of consideration when it comes to choosing Mega Blastoise over Mega Gyarados.


[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Dragon Tail / Hydro Pump
move 4: Toxic
item: None Blastoisinite VERY IMPORTANT
nature: Modest / Timid

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Information
========

Surf is Mega Blastoise's preferred STAB, offering a reliable 2HKO against Melmetal and most of the metagame, and can 2HKO Mew after rocks. Hydro Pump's extra power is often unnecessary and its poor accuracy can hinder Blastoise's performance, but it is preferred when using a Timid nature to compensate for lacking Modest's power, or if you just want an extra amount of power, which lets you KO faster Pokemon like Zapdos and Mew with less prior damage before they can roost, or have a chance to OHKO Pokemon like Gengar, Alolan Persian, and Eevee-S after rocks Stealth Rock damage. this sentence drags on but GP can probably fix it better than me, or you can try Dragon Tail can be used on predicted switches, like Pokemon that Mega Blastoise scares out, and makes the opponent's check for Mega Blastoise take extra chip and an extra round of Stealth Rock damage, while also potentially dragging in Pokemon that are also forced out by Mega Blastoise, dealing extra Stealth Rock damage and repeating the process to potentially rack up heavy damage on the opponent's checks to Mega Blastoise when combined with Stealth Rock. Ice Beam provides coverage for Grass-types like Mega Venusaur and Alolan Exeggutor, as well as Flying-types like Dragonite and Zapdos. Toxic hits Pokemon that could otherwise switch into and beat Mega Blastoise like Mew, Chansey, or Poliwrath, and hinders the longevity of Pokemon like Zapdos or Mega Charizard X. Modest is greatly preferred over Timid to let Mega Blastoise more reliably break walls— however, a Timid nature lets it does outspeed some crucial Pokemon like Mega Venusaur and Dragonite, and could be chosen on some teams. Again, Hydro Pump should always be run on this to compensate for the drop in power.

Usage Tips
========

Mega Blastoise's high defenses allow it to survive a hit from every viable set in the metagame almost any single attack. To get the most value out of this it is best to preserve health whenever possible. Use U-turn support from the likes of Mew and Zapdos to get Mega Blastoise in safely. Blastoise will be primarily clicking Surf, which has great reliable damage against potential switch ins, or using Ice Beam to KO or severely damage Grass and Water-type switch-ins. With the amount of damage you do to Mew on the switch, you force it to use Roost or be 2HKOd, giving you the opportunity to click Toxic. If you predict a Grass or Flying-type switch, or Dragonite or Zapdos, clicking Ice Beam will KO or do large amounts of damage, preventing them from continuing to be a viable switch. Alolan Muk cannot be dealt with using Toxic, but can be easily 2HKOd by Earthquake its lack of longevity means it can be taken down with repeated Surfs or Hydro Pumps you haven't mentioned Earthquake anywhere yet, and OOs aren't really worth mentioning in Usage Tips. Mega Blastoise has potential to start wallbreaking very early on in the game, if lead with versus, or double into on ground types, as many players attempt to set up Stealth Rock with a Ground-type Pokemon that Mega Blastoise can force them out with its STAB attack. This will force your opponent to switch into and be weakened by Mega Blastoise early on, as well as can come with the added benefit of preventing them from safety setting up rocks Stealth Rock. Dragon Tail is worth using when your opponent has limited Pokemon that can take on Mega Blastoise, because as there is little risk of you bringing in a threat inadvertently. If you have conditioned the other player to expect a Dragon Tail, or their Surf answer is weakened sufficiently, Mega Blastoise should just attack directly.

Team Options
========

Zapdos is a great partner for Mega Blastoise, as it can forces in and pivot with U-Turn on Ground-types in as a defensive response, which Zapdos can U-turn on, bringing in to grant Mega Blastoise safely and in a great position a safe switch-in and apply offensive pressure. Zapdos also effectively handles Water-types that Mega Blastoise struggles with, like Poliwrath, Mega Gyarados, and Starmie, and can help in wearing down Mega Venusaur. They also help each other pressure Grass-types. Zapdos also deals with Water-types that Blastoise struggles with like Poliwrath and Mega Gyarados. Alolan Dugtrio and Nidoqueen switch into Zapdos, a Pokemon that which heavily threatens Mega Blastoise, while and potentially conditioning it to click U-turn on deter it from using Thunderbolt against Mega Blastoise expecting the switch. These Pokemon also are great users of Stealth Rock, which is very important for helping Mega Blastoise to break down the opposing team. Because Mega Blastoise is great at breaking down defensive cores and teams with Mega Blastoise lack fast Mega Pokemon like Mega Aerodactyl or Mega Alakazam, setup sweepers synergise very well with Mega Blastoise. Agility Dragonite and Shell Smash Cloyster fill this role well, with Cloyster especially so, notably sharing many common checks with Mega Blastoise and therefore benefitting greatly from its presence.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Earthquake could be used in the place of Toxic or Dragon Tail, as it 2HKOs Chansey and Alolan Muk, but it has no targets outside of these 2 Pokemon achieves little else. Aqua Jet is also a niche option, able to pick off weakened Pokemon like Alolan Dugtrio, Mega Beedrill, and Mega Aerodactyl. It is extremely weak outside of these situations however , but its low damage output means it isn't useful in many other situations. Add a Dark Pulse mention for taking on Starmie, which can be a nuisance otherwise

Checks and Counters
===================

**Zapdos**: While Zapdos cannot comfortably switch in without taking a large amount of damage, it immediately forces Mega Blastoise out, and has the ability to Roost and be able to check Mega Blastoise multiple times.

**Bulky Water-types**: Mega Gyarados and Poliwrath take very little damage from any of Mega Blastoise's moves, and can 3HKO in return with their STAB attacks. Neither like taking a Toxic or Dragon Tail on the switch though, as they will quickly be worn down and become less useful as answers. Mention Starmie here as it can come in, threaten with Thunderbolt, and heal off even Hydro Pump. That's pretty much all the most prominent Water-types so I removed the Bulky prefix as Starmie is kinda not

**Specially Bulky Pokemon** Chansey and Alolan Muk can switch into any special move relatively freely, and while Mew takes more, it can outspeed Mega Blastoise and heal off the damage. However Alolan Muk is 2HKOd by Earthquake, and Mew is a much worse answer when hit by Toxic. Both of these are true for Chansey.

May be worth mentioning Mega Venusaur here as it almost always wins a 1v1, even after switching in on a STAB move:
Mega Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. Mega Venusaur: 34-41 (21.9 - 26.4%) -- 11.3% chance to 4HKO
Mega Blastoise Ice Beam vs. Mega Venusaur: 76-90 (49 - 58%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
Mega Venusaur Mega Drain vs. Mega Blastoise: 90-108 (58.4 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (recovers between 29% and 34.8%, negating Hydro)


[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Collesque, 520031]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
QC 1/3
 
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Collette

formerly Collesque
great check, Implemented, ready for 2nd check.

Also, looking for anyone's input here, thoughts on Dark Pulse being slashed either before or after Toxic?
Mega Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. Mew: 88-105 (50.2 - 60%)
Mega Blastoise Surf vs. Mew: 73-87 (41.7 - 49.7%)
Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. Mew: 86-102 (49.1 - 58.2%)
The reason Mew is a consistent counter to Mega Blastoise is because Surf never does more than half, meaning it can roost up and have a free turn to Toxic or Thunderbolt, and Hydro Pump can't KO mew either without landing 5-7 Hydro Pumps in a row, with no room for error in missing because it only has 8 PP. Dark Pulse absolutely fixes this, because if a Mew switches into a Dark Pulse, using Roost does not accomplish anything, because it is outdamaged by Dark Pulse, and unlike Hydro Pump, has significantly more PP than Roost
For the sake of accuracy I will say that there is a 4.7% chance for back to back minrolls to occur, but even after the first minroll, Mew still only has a 25% chance of getting the 2nd one, hardly odds worth betting your Mew on
Dark Pulse also has some use outside the Mew matchup, as mentioned in OO, it hits Starmie very hard, preventing it from switching in, it hits multiple targets stronger than Surf, having better odds vs Gengar after rocks than Hydro Pump due to the latter's accuracy, for example. It has great neutral coverage, meaning it can't be taken advantage of that often, and Dark Pulse into Hydro Pump can 2HKO Melmetal. The flinch chance is not something to ignore either, there are very often situations where any of your 2 moves can 2HKO something like Melmetal, or Nidoqueen, or Eevee-S, or Mega Venusaur. In these situations, it would be optimal to click Dark Pulse and then Hydro Pump, or and then Surf, Ice Beam, etc. because it accomplishes the same goal, but offers a good chance to flinch and come out of the situation much healthier. So what's the downside of Dark Pulse?
:sm/Poliwrath: :sm/Gyarados-mega:
these guys, and that's about it. If this was slashed with Toxic, you would miss out on the targets of Toxic, Poliwrath, Gyara, Starmie, and Mew. But since Dark Pulse covers the latter 2, it's just them. Which means you either miss out on those 2 Water-types or you struggle more with Mew and Starmie, and miss out on the minor aforementioned benefits. This would easily put pulse in the position of 2nd slash imo, but because Mew is more common than Mega Gyara and Poliwrath combined, (because essentially it should be on every team) maybe that's enough to place it as 1st slash? So to recap, it'd look like
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Dragon Tail / Hydro Pump
move 4: Dark Pulse / Toxic
item: Blastoisinite
nature: Modest / Timid
And obviously if this was implemented I'd update set info and/or usage tips/c&c appropriately. So what do you think?
 
~ i dont have experience w m-blastoise, but i imagine dark pulse should not be considered with dragon tail, as toxic pairs well with dragon tail and the 2hko calcs are not as important when u have the option to accumulate hazards and poison damage by p-hazing (?), whereas dark pulse prob fits better on dual water stab sets.
if you are running dark pulse over toxic, does scald become viable (paired with hpump)? burning mew (or starmie) might not be as much of an issue if you have dark pulse to 2hko, it somewhat solves the issue of poliwrath and m-gyara switchins as well as helping with a-muk, it arguably improves the melm matchup even if u lose the guaranteed 2hko after rocks (assuming modest), and when u need the greater power thats what hpump is on the set for.
sidenote u mention dark pulse flinch chance vs several pokes it can only outspeed if it is timid. also chansey is a toxic target left off your list.

love analysis, feel it is very accessible for someone not familiar w m-blastoise. a few smol thoughts:
~ maybe explain why bold nature is not viable? you talk about bringing m-blastoise in with u turn but it is quite bulky dont u want to be able to come in to melm or grounds sometimes, take on m-aero, and when it needs to take hits to use toxic or dragon tail for that set. as a very bulky water it seems intuitive to consider a +def nature so maybe that is worth elaborating idk. coming from someone who hasnt usedm m-blastoise.
~ maybe worth elaborating a lil further at gyara comparison. gyara is only bulkier specially, it isnt exactly stronger since its stabs have lower bp but it kind of depends on matchup eg whether the secondary effects are relevant and whether target is bulkier physically or specially, m-venu seems like the one relevant pokemon @ its better speed tier, in what way does m-gyara have a better movepool (twave? otherwise blastoise gets ice coverage and the rest of their movepools are pretty similar) so it seems like the typing is really the key difference. i havent rly been interested in using m-gyara since the m-gar ban but maybe briefly address what u are losing that u need to consider with the rest of m-blastoise's team idk.
~ @ water types well kingler and cloyster both have terrible m-blastoise matchups due to their special frailty, so its not every water type the analysis was correct to specifically name them. and i think calling starmie bulky is fine bc its not that frail, has recover, and its water typing is good defensively even if the psychic typing is mostly not, but all viable lgpe waters can arguably be described as 'bulky' so its w e at removing the word bulky.
 
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Collette

formerly Collesque
~ i dont have experience w m-blastoise, but i imagine dark pulse should not be considered with dragon tail, as toxic pairs well with dragon tail and the 2hko calcs are not as important when u have the option to accumulate hazards and poison damage by p-hazing (?), whereas dark pulse prob fits better on dual water stab sets.
Normally with offensive pokemon in this situation you would be correct, doing 55% instead of 45% is not THAT big of a deal because you can use hazards or prior chip, but what you have to remember with blastoise, is it is slower than Mew, so prior chip doesn't matter, it just roosts. This does mean you have a 90% chance to get a Toxic off on Mew(if it's not already burned), but Toxic on a Mew is, as we've probably all experienced firsthand, not a guaranteed method of dealing with it. When Dark Pulse is run, Mew is not a good switch-in at all, because it loses the ability to outheal Blastoise's damage, meaning it can only use 1 move before fainting.
Scenario one: Mew comes in at 70%, takes 55% from Hydro Pump. Mew roosts, and Blastoise clicks pump again. Depending on rolls, Blastoise will need to hit 5-8 Hydro Pumps in a row to be able to kill the Mew. It can also click Toxic at any point, helping the team wear down mew, but then also facing a move from Mew on the following turn and/or letting the mew survive. If Dark Pulse was had in this situation, Mew would not be in a position to do this, because dark pulse does more than roost heals and has more pp than roost has.
Scenario two: Mew comes in at 50%, takes 45% from surf, clicks roost, outheals surf over the course of multiple turns barring a crit. Again, the blastoise could opt to click toxic here, losing momentum but helping beat the Mew for later. If Dark Pulse was run, Mew could simply be killed on the following turn of the Surf, and even with an unlucky roll it would be unable to outheal the blastoise.
Scenario three: Mew comes in at 80%, takes 45% from surf. It's within range of another surf so it has to heal, but the blastoise clicks dark pulse, doing more damage than roost, and the Mew has to decide to either switch out, leaving the Mew weakened and vunerable, or to toxic/attack the Blastoise, sacrificing their Mew for some chip.
Scenario four: the mew comes in at 100%, takes 55% from dark pulse. Dark Pulse cannot miss and has more pp than roost, the Mew has to either switch out and be left at 45% or toxic/attack and sacrifice its life, similar to the last situation

if you are running dark pulse over toxic, does scald become viable (paired with hpump)? burning mew (or starmie) might not be as much of an issue if you have dark pulse to 2hko, it somewhat solves the issue of poliwrath and m-gyara switchins as well as helping with a-muk, it arguably improves the melm matchup even if u lose the guaranteed 2hko after rocks (assuming modest), and when u need the greater power thats what hpump is on the set for.
sidenote u mention dark pulse flinch chance vs several pokes it can only outspeed if it is timid. also chansey is a toxic target left off your list.
I'm really not a fan of scald at all, having a chance to burn Poliwrath and Gyarados is interesting, but honestly it just does so little damage to them and if the 70% chance to not burn happens, you lose momentum and have to deal with the threat of a Mega Gyarados. Not to mention that Poliwrath is probably looking to toxic you anyway, it's a much better midground that deals with low kick switch ins like Mew and Zapdos. I fail to see how scald improves the mel matchup at all, scald has a 5.9% chance to 2HKO, and is not even guarenteed with rocks, whereas surf is a 95.3% chance to 2HKO without rocks. Even assuming you're running double water move, scald into hydro pump is only a 80% chance to KO.
However if Dark Pulse becomes slashed, the OO section will be quite slim, so scald is probably viable enough to be worth a mention.
Also I've been seeing a lot more +defense or +spedef eevee's lately, and Nidoqueen never runs +speed, so thats why I mentioned them as flinch targets, altho it's true that timid is needed for mega Venusaur. I wasn't planning on giving flinch chance any more than a passing word if it was in set explanation anyway tho, so it does not really matter. I'll mention chansey for toxic, sure.
~ maybe explain why bold nature is not viable? you talk about bringing m-blastoise in with u turn but it is quite bulky dont u want to be able to come in to melm or grounds sometimes, take on m-aero, and when it needs to take hits to use toxic or dragon tail for that set. as a very bulky water it seems intuitive to consider a +def nature so maybe that is worth elaborating idk. coming from someone who hasnt usedm m-blastoise.
Bold Nature, when looking at it, isn't that bad at all. It dodges a the 2HKO from any move from Mel, Bee, Aero, Mega Gyara etc, can OHKO bee after rocks, OHKO aero at any %, and has a 80% chance to 2HKO mel with surf after rocks. It also can switch into and get a toxic off on mega gyara which is cool. I'm not sure where or how to implement or mention this though, maybe I'll try to efficiently mention it in OO, depends on what QC 2 or 3 thinks.
~ maybe worth elaborating a lil further at gyara comparison. gyara is only bulkier specially, it isnt exactly stronger since its stabs have lower bp but it kind of depends on matchup eg whether the secondary effects are relevant and whether target is bulkier physically or specially, m-venu seems like the one relevant pokemon @ its better speed tier, in what way does m-gyara have a better movepool (twave? otherwise blastoise gets ice coverage and the rest of their movepools are pretty similar) so it seems like the typing is really the key difference. i havent rly been interested in using m-gyara since the m-gar ban but maybe briefly address what u are losing that u need to consider with the rest of m-blastoise's team idk.
It's an easily mistake to make, but Gyara is actually bulkier both physically and specially due to its HP, you can use the same attack on both of em to test this in the damage calc. And Gyara is stronger most of the time, especially because hydro pump is 2nd slash. When I said gyara had a better movepool I meant offensive typing, having a 2ndary typing is a huge advantage over blastoise. I'll change " has a better typing and movepool. " to " has a better offensive and defensive typing ". Up to later QC checkers but I think the mega gyarados comparison is functional atm, or, not needing a total rework at least.
~ @ water types well kingler and cloyster both have terrible m-blastoise matchups due to their special frailty, so its not every water type the analysis was correct to specifically name them. and i think calling starmie bulky is fine bc its not that frail, has recover, and its water typing is good defensively even if the psychic typing is mostly not, but all viable lgpe waters can arguably be described as 'bulky' so its w e at removing the word bulky.
I agree w/ this but this goes directly against the last QC check so I cannot make that change.


Treating this as an AMcheck and will be implementing the things I said I'd change here
 
i think i wasnt clear abt a few things sorry.
~ @ mew obviously if you dont have either toxic or dark pulse then u cant accomplish anything, as you said. i was saying that toxic i think pairs better with dragon tail bc if (toxic) mew is p-hazed in at high health unstatused, dark pulse may not help you that much bc mew can click toxic and then still be able to stall you with roost for a while depending on dark pulse damage rolls. on the other hand, if you have landed toxic mew will take toxic damage the turn it is p-hazed in and even if you only have surf it still wont be able to stall you with roost bc of toxic damage. this is specific to dragon tail as otherwise the only situation that needs to be considered is mew switching in directly in which case dark pulse is more reliable for dealing with mew for the reasons you said. (as well as that toxic and dragon tail pair well generally to rack up poison damage).

~ @ scald i was only talking abt dark pulse sets if that wasnt clear, and i guess i was assuming that dark pulse sets would not run dragon tail (or 'obv' toxic since that is what you have dark pulse slashed with and based on your description of dark pulse) and therefore would run dual stab. so i am talking about scald vs surf with ice beam/hpump/dpulse as the other three moves. i did not mean scald to try to 1v1 poli or m-gyara, just as the best move to use if u predict them switching in since otherwise you cant do anything rly relevant to them, tho i agree poliwrath doesnt necessarily care about burn to the same extent.
at melm, first you arent including potential burn damage in your 2hko calcs, if the first scald lands a burn you (i think i did the calc right) are guaranteed 2hko after rocks unless you roll min/min, obv in addition to taking halved damage from whatever attack. if you dont burn on first scald u still can go for hpump. i think its arguable which is better / depends on the situation, the 100% 2hko or the 30% burn and 86% 2hko. and this is assuming full health melm, in other situations melm may be in 2hko range of either move where obv scald is preferable.
in practice i imagine melm is 'usually' switching out regardless of surf/scald, but melm might in a bad spot try to trade one round of damage (or take one hit to land toxic or twave), and scald burn chance might deter that more than surfs extra damage, again depending.
anyway melm is prob not what is most relevant at scald, i suggested it to be able to run dark pulse and still have a move for poli and m-gyara switchins, tho ofc it doesnt help with chansey. mew still cant switch in effectively at all bc it will always be in potential dark pulse ko range after switching into rocks + scald, and idk if you think there are other targets where scalds reduced damage is too important to consider it on dual stab + dpulse sets what are they.

~ yeah sorry so i thought m blastoise was slightly phys bulkier but its the reverse, anyway the difference is very very small plus blastoise has no phys weaknesses, where the bulk and def typing difference is clear is on the special side. for example presumably one defensive value of m-gyara is at least semi checking m-zam, so blastoise needs m-zam check(s) right but there are none mentioned in team options. which is okay i mean obv u arent going to mention every possible teammate but as an example of where the analysis doesnt rly specify what u are losing compared to m-gyara. i didnt mean to frame it as a Problem with the analysis tho, sorry, i guess more as something that potentially could be added but i think its ok the way it is too.
everything i wrote starting with @ bold nature and below was meant more as just thoughts, not necessarily anything that i thought needed to be changed (unless u wanted to). sorry if that wasnt clear.

honestly i wasnt trying to give a 'check' at all, j sometimes it can be useful to hear from someone not experienced with the pokemon to see how they perceive the analysis.
 
Last edited:

Collette

formerly Collesque
i think i wasnt clear abt a few things sorry.
~ @ mew obviously if you dont have either toxic or dark pulse then u cant accomplish anything, as you said. i was saying that toxic i think pairs better with dragon tail bc if (toxic) mew is p-hazed in at high health unstatused, dark pulse may not help you that much bc mew can click toxic and then still be able to stall you with roost for a while depending on dark pulse damage rolls. on the other hand, if you have landed toxic mew will take toxic damage the turn it is p-hazed in and even if you only have surf it still wont be able to stall you with roost bc of toxic damage. this is specific to dragon tail as otherwise the only situation that needs to be considered is mew switching in directly in which case dark pulse is more reliable for dealing with mew for the reasons you said. (as well as that toxic and dragon tail pair well generally to rack up poison damage).

~ @ scald i was only talking abt dark pulse sets if that wasnt clear, and i guess i was assuming that dark pulse sets would not run dragon tail (or 'obv' toxic since that is what you have dark pulse slashed with and based on your description of dark pulse) and therefore would run dual stab. so i am talking about scald vs surf with ice beam/hpump/dpulse as the other three moves. i did not mean scald to try to 1v1 poli or m-gyara, just as the best move to use if u predict them switching in since otherwise you cant do anything rly relevant to them, tho i agree poliwrath doesnt necessarily care about burn to the same extent.
at melm, first you arent including potential burn damage in your 2hko calcs, if the first scald lands a burn you (i think i did the calc right) are guaranteed 2hko after rocks unless you roll min/min, obv in addition to taking halved damage from whatever attack. if you dont burn on first scald u still can go for hpump. i think its arguable which is better / depends on the situation, the 100% 2hko or the 30% burn and 86% 2hko. and this is assuming full health melm, in other situations melm may be in 2hko range of either move where obv scald is preferable.
in practice i imagine melm is 'usually' switching out regardless of surf/scald, but melm might in a bad spot try to trade one round of damage (or take one hit to land toxic or twave), and scald burn chance might deter that more than surfs extra damage, again depending.
anyway melm is prob not what is most relevant at scald, i suggested it to be able to run dark pulse and still have a move for poli and m-gyara switchins, tho ofc it doesnt help with chansey. mew still doesnt switch in well bc of dark pulse and idk if you think there are other targets where scalds reduced damage is too important to consider it on dual stab + dpulse sets what are they.

~ yeah sorry so i thought m blastoise was slightly phys bulkier but its the reverse, anyway the difference is very very small plus blastoise has no phys weaknesses, where the bulk and def typing difference is clear is on the special side. for example presumably one defensive value of m-gyara is at least semi checking m-zam, so blastoise needs m-zam check(s) right but there are none mentioned in team options. which is okay i mean obv u arent going to mention every possible teammate but as an example of where the analysis doesnt rly specify what u are losing compared to m-gyara. i didnt mean to frame it as a Problem with the analysis tho, sorry, i guess more as something that potentially could be added but i think its ok the way it is too.
everything i wrote starting with @ bold nature and below was meant more as just thoughts, not necessarily anything that i thought needed to be changed (unless u wanted to). sorry if that wasnt clear.

honestly i wasnt trying to give a 'check' at all, j sometimes it can be useful to hear from someone not experienced with the pokemon to see how they perceive the analysis.
np! So the set would be

name: Special Attacker
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Dragon Tail / Hydro Pump
move 4: Toxic / Dark Pulse
With an extra effort to keep Dragon Tail and Toxic together because they synergize well.

And I think mentioning a zam check in team options is a great idea, because that is something you lose out on when you choose blastoise over gyarados. I'll do that as well.
 

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