What are your thoughts on the Pokemon fanbase?

How good or bad is the Pokemon fanbase most of the time?


  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .
I don't know man, I've just seen a few people having some pretty mixed opinions on whether this game's fanbase is good or bad. Like, I know this isn't one of those really cringy fanbases like Undertale or Fortnite, but when I'm the kind of person who makes fun of said really cringy fanbases, I just really don't wanna risk ending up also being part of a horrible fanbase myself.

Maybe you guys can explain exactly what makes this fanbase good or bad. You don't have to bring up the anime fandom or Verlis though, because the anime's fandom is probably separate from the games, and Verlis is pretty much hated by everyone and doesn't really represent the rest of us.
 

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
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I'm no expert on this, but if you'll let me put on my philosophy glasses for a moment I'd like to share a pattern concerning newer fanbases in at least comparison to Pokemon's fanbase.

This started around when the new My Little Pony show was at its peak. I didn't even realize they had made a new My Little Pony show, mostly because I didn't care as until then my only knowledge of the franchise was they were pony dolls for little girls, when suddenly memes from the show were EVERYWHERE. Not only that, I learned many fans of the show were older males (the bronies), and they were the ones mostly pushing MLP:FIM references everywhere that it then started getting backlash.

I too wondered why the bronies were so zealous about including MLP:FIM in every place they could. It made me wonder if Pokemon fans like myself were like this in its prime during the 2000s where Pokemon was EVERYWHERE. But as I thought more about it I realized something: MLP:FIM isn't everywhere. Pokemon, or at least its fans, didn't have to "work" to make Pokemon well known, it became a cultural phenomenon simply because it seemed every kid was playing Pokemon, collecting the cards, and watching the anime. MLP:FIM, on the otherhand, only had a well-written show that was marketed towards little girls (I don't even know how the brony fandom even started because of that, maybe older male relatives watching the show with their little sister/cousin/niece/daughter)?.

But the brony fandom calmed down and I put that thought in the back of my mind... until the Undertale fanbase. Now I became aware of Undertale more naturally than MLP:FIM as I'm into video games then TV shows. Before Undertale it was Five Nights at Freddy's, and after Undertale it was Overwatch and then Fortnight (though we do now have Deltarune). But focusing on Undertale I knew it before I heard anything about its fanbase. So imagine my surprise that when the Undertale fanbase became more vocal that I noticed a bit of similarity I noticed with the MLP:FIM bronies. They too were pushing memes and trying to include Undertale in a lot of conversations. And much like the comparison back then, unlike Pokemon, Undertale was relatively only known by gamers. It's a well written game, unique and fun combination of gameplay elements, and brings up a lot of philosophy and questions; yet you don't exactly see a show on TV or merchandise on shelves.

If you'll allow a Pokemon fan to be a bit selfish, I think the reason bronies and the Undertale fanbase are volatile (both in actions of certain individuals and general perception due to the forcing of memes) is because deep down they want what Pokemon had in terms of its popularity. Here's this great if not amazing show or game... and yet outside where it resides nothing is acknowledging it.

So, how does this relate back the Pokemon fanbase? Well, I kind of feel that since the Pokemon fanbase never had to "force" itself into the public eye that Pokemon fans are generally more calmer even when the Pokemon hype had died down. Not to mention Pokemon has been around for 20 years, many of its fans are adults now and kids just getting into Pokemon have a whole generation they could look to that acknowledges their interests and share with them their experience. Now the Pokemon fanbase isn't perfect, we do have people like "genwunners" and "gatekeepers" (and let's be honest, I imagine GF and Pokemon Company doesn't see us fans like us here on Smogon in a positive light all the time), however for the most part the Pokemon fanbase doesn't need to "prove" itself like newer fanbases (Steven Universe I think is the newest who are starting to make their voices heard).

"So what about the Sonic fanbase?"

Where to begin. To put it simply: it's what happens when you build a franchise on anthropomorphized characters who have 90s attitude. It already was a mess before the furries and OCs, not to mention the quality of games being a roller coaster of high and lows.

"So what about the Kingdom Hearts fanbase?"

Do you want this post to end? I'll tell you after I play KH3 (8 more days!). Also this is a Pokemon forum and I think I got REALLY sidetracked.
 
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Honestly I don't mind Verlis. Smogon's certainly one of the most prevalent Pokemon fan communities focused on the competitive scene, but there are those who don't agree with it and enjoy coming up with alternatives. He just happens to be one such individual.

This fan base has its ups and downs, much like any other fan base. It can be very... passionate about certain things, but it has also brought people together to share their common love for Pokemon no matter what form that may take. Some really love the Pokemon themselves, others enjoy testing their mettle and skills against fellow people, and still others like to see just how far they can get in the in-game battle facilities before the computer inevitably bests them. (not that the computer is well programmed, it just has to win once to end the player's win-streak)

And really, there's no harm in poking fun at a franchise or fan base you're part of, provided you don't go too far with it. (hurting people for being part of a fandom is NOT okay)
 
Pokemon's fanbase is pretty good. People have had the exposure to know what it is, and whether they like it or not. However, when you have something new coming along trying to prove itself with a big following and memes, there's an intense pressure being exerted on those not familiar with it by their friends/acquaintences/etc to be convinced that this new thing is the "best thing ever." Since Pokemon is a bastion that has withstood the test of time it's easier to be open about it and receive a positive to neutral response. Back in the day it was tough to even talk about the game outside my friend groups, but now that Pokemon has become more than a fad, it's a safer and friendlier world to be a Pokemon fan (and I am grateful for that). I don't know if this answers your question but I felt like sharing it here
 

Xen

Fish Pokémon Connoisseur
is a Top Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Honestly, this is a pretty hard question to answer. I think a lot of fans either tend to forget, or don't realize that the Pokemon fanbase is not only huge and going over 20 years of age, but has a wide variety of different "sects" that spread out between competitive and casual in-game players, older fans who've been with the series since inception and a young kid picking up his first ever game in Let's Go, those who like collecting shiny Pokemon and those who enjoy drawing them, those who love all gens equally and those who will forever represent the OG 151 species ..the list could go on for ages.

The fandom is unique in that it's really a cultural melting pot of sorts, which..yeah can lead to some "cringe" members making their mark and can occasionally lead to internal spats, but it also means that any fan of the series can find a group they can comfortably fit in and enjoy.
 
For a fanbase its size, it's surprisingly calm. Other than the whole "Everything after Gen I/II is not Pokémon"... there isn't much flame about it.

It could be much worse. Right, Need for Speed? *Need for Speed nods*
 
Honestly I don't mind Verlis. Smogon's certainly one of the most prevalent Pokemon fan communities focused on the competitive scene, but there are those who don't agree with it and enjoy coming up with alternatives. He just happens to be one such individual.

This fan base has its ups and downs, much like any other fan base. It can be very... passionate about certain things, but it has also brought people together to share their common love for Pokemon no matter what form that may take. Some really love the Pokemon themselves, others enjoy testing their mettle and skills against fellow people, and still others like to see just how far they can get in the in-game battle facilities before the computer inevitably bests them. (not that the computer is well programmed, it just has to win once to end the player's win-streak)

And really, there's no harm in poking fun at a franchise or fan base you're part of, provided you don't go too far with it. (hurting people for being part of a fandom is NOT okay)
I second that. He's free to criticize Smogon in all its glory. What I don't like is how he attacks people, even If they are genuinely responsible for things hacking, but he has a right to that. Still I also don't like people who threaten him or trash talk. on him even if he hasn't done anything to offend him. I myself don't agree with all of Smogon rules. I personally find paralysis worse than sleep simply because at least sleep lasts three turns, and good sleep moves are rather limited ( Spore ) to Amoonguss, Breloom, and maybe Parasect.

Paralysis, on the other hand, lasts forever, and has 25% chance of shutting a down. I've lost matches because Paralysis happened at the wrong time. Thunder Wave is also incredibly accessible. Sleep at least goes away after after 3 turns max, and GF has nerved Sleep drastically. I'm not particular fond of banning moves and Pokemon like Baton Pass and Zygarde, though that probably stems from me being a cartridge format player primarily and preparing for those "gimmick" strategies is a must, since there are no clauses to defend me from that.

Anyway, its kind of hard to say though. For starters, there's the hardcore fans who are competitive players, who genuinely know Pokemon Games and has a million complaints that they want GF to do but their's not going to address. There's there Genwunners, who care only about Gen 1 and are currently thrilling in Gen 1 pandering. Then there are Casual fans, who want the hardcore stuff but without the competitive aspect, like my brother who wants save files and serious story but doesn't enjoy the completive Scene and accuses me of practing eugenics. Then there's the Go Audience, who were brought in players completely clueless about Pokemon to Pokemon. Heck, my English teacher/yearbook advisor didn't know a clue about Pokemon is now super hardcore Pokemon Go Nerd. Then there's children. Surprisingly, I haven't seen too many children at the events. When I go to participate raid battles, its mostly adolescents/elder people partaking it. There's usually one or two, but they just share a tablet. In fact, most people I see tend to be young adults. So Pokeon's audiences tend to be younger audiences, at least from the western sides.

Overall, I think fanbase gets on pretty well, even if we d have our disputes. We aren't at the level of complete disrespect and vulgar commentary , which happens to be an unfortunate thing for some franchises like Fire Emblem' Reddit pages.
 
I second that. He's free to criticize Smogon in all its glory. What I don't like is how he attacks people, even If they are genuinely responsible for things hacking, but he has a right to that. Still I also don't like people who threaten him or trash talk. on him even if he hasn't done anything to offend him. I myself don't agree with all of Smogon rules. I personally find paralysis worse than sleep simply because at least sleep lasts three turns, and good sleep moves are rather limited ( Spore ) to Amoonguss, Breloom, and maybe Parasect.

Paralysis, on the other hand, lasts forever, and has 25% chance of shutting a down. I've lost matches because Paralysis happened at the wrong time. Thunder Wave is also incredibly accessible. Sleep at least goes away after after 3 turns max, and GF has nerved Sleep drastically. I'm not particular fond of banning moves and Pokemon like Baton Pass and Zygarde, though that probably stems from me being a cartridge format player primarily and preparing for those "gimmick" strategies is a must, since there are no clauses to defend me from that.

Anyway, its kind of hard to say though. For starters, there's the hardcore fans who are competitive players, who genuinely know Pokemon Games and has a million complaints that they want GF to do but their's not going to address. There's there Genwunners, who care only about Gen 1 and are currently thrilling in Gen 1 pandering. Then there are Casual fans, who want the hardcore stuff but without the competitive aspect, like my brother who wants save files and serious story but doesn't enjoy the completive Scene and accuses me of practing eugenics. Then there's the Go Audience, who were brought in players completely clueless about Pokemon to Pokemon. Heck, my English teacher/yearbook advisor didn't know a clue about Pokemon is now super hardcore Pokemon Go Nerd. Then there's children. Surprisingly, I haven't seen too many children at the events. When I go to participate raid battles, its mostly adolescents/elder people partaking it. There's usually one or two, but they just share a tablet. In fact, most people I see tend to be young adults. So Pokeon's audiences tend to be younger audiences, at least from the western sides.

Overall, I think fanbase gets on pretty well, even if we d have our disputes. We aren't at the level of complete disrespect and vulgar commentary , which happens to be an unfortunate thing for some franchises like Fire Emblem' Reddit pages.
Eh, at least with paralysis the Pokemon can still potentially fight, even if their speed is reduced. With sleep the Pokemon is often completely helpless and may not last long enough to wake up.

That said, Smogon's policies are definitely not as cartridge friendly. You pretty much have to use Showdown or else you'd better hope you have access to some old events and that the metagame doesn't shift to make those Pokemon useless because now the nature's all wrong.

But hey, some people love competing on Showdown while others enjoy the Battle Spot scene, or even hope to enter VGC. These are more aspects of the fandom. And here on Smogon, even when we're passionately complaining about things we tend to be pretty chill about it.
 
Eh, at least with paralysis the Pokemon can still potentially fight, even if their speed is reduced. With sleep the Pokemon is often completely helpless and may not last long enough to wake up.

That said, Smogon's policies are definitely not as cartridge friendly. You pretty much have to use Showdown or else you'd better hope you have access to some old events and that the metagame doesn't shift to make those Pokemon useless because now the nature's all wrong.

But hey, some people love competing on Showdown while others enjoy the Battle Spot scene, or even hope to enter VGC. These are more aspects of the fandom. And here on Smogon, even when we're passionately complaining about things we tend to be pretty chill about it.
Well, there's always Snore and Sleep Talk. You know, I've always wondered if the Pokemon Company is aware of simulators like Showdown and what there opinion of them is, and if they would press copyright over it.
 
Well, there's always Snore and Sleep Talk. You know, I've always wondered if the Pokemon Company is aware of simulators like Showdown and what there opinion of them is, and if they would press copyright over it.
If Game Freak actually cared, they would have likely sent the C&D's all the way back in 2008 when Shoddy Battle was the main simulator.

Besides, even though we're technically distributing assets of the games through the simulator (graphics like Pokemon models and BW2 Trainer sprites, battle themes, etc.), Showdown doesn't have the stories that Game Freak forces upon you, the linear regions without any exploration to be had, not every piece of music is coded in Showdown; it's nothing but Pokemon battles. Battles are only a slice of the appeal to Pokemon (and from Game Freak's recent words I'd say they think battles have the smallest slice of the Pokemon experience pie), so Showdown I believe is hardly giving the full experience of a Pokemon game to be considered a free package of what's otherwise priced at $50. Showdown isn't anything like Uranium version (even though Nintendo has a long fucking way to go to shut down the entire fan game/fan hacking community).

If the Battle Frontier was left out of ORAS because only a single percent of the fanbase actually enjoys it (which I personally find to be bullshit since nobody has actual numbers on this), then it's that single percent that's going to be using Showdown, likely even less than that. So there's not going to be a loss of major profits for Showdown to run; losing a single percent of sales or less doesn't matter to Game Freak, especially when LGPE's dismal sales are considered good. Even though someone like me who's sick of Game Freak's recent inability to design good games that will last and be worth their price probably won't buy another Pokemon game again if Gen 8 proves to disappoint will have Showdown and the past games if I want my Pokemon fixings, but whatever.
 

Codraroll

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If the Battle Frontier was left out of ORAS because only a single percent of the fanbase actually enjoys it (which I personally find to be bullshit since nobody has actual numbers on this)
I actually think they do have some numbers. The Gen IV games were Internet compatible, and it would be an easy thing to code the games to send some information on Battle Frontier progress to Game Freak's servers every time they go online. The carts could easily tell Game Freak how many battles each player has had in the Battle Frontier, and show them that the vast majority of players only ever had a half-dozen battles there, if they ever got there in the first place. They developers wouldn't put a lot of time and effort into a feature used only by a few percent of the playerbase, when that time and effort could be used to make the rest of the game better saved to cut development costs.

This would also explain why Masuda seems to think Pokémon fans like hatching eggs. The data would show that a certain fraction of the players have hatched tons and tons of eggs. Of course, he seems to have missed the context entirely.
 
I actually think they do have some numbers. The Gen IV games were Internet compatible, and it would be an easy thing to code the games to send some information on Battle Frontier progress to Game Freak's servers every time they go online. The carts could easily tell Game Freak how many battles each player has had in the Battle Frontier, and show them that the vast majority of players only ever had a half-dozen battles there, if they ever got there in the first place. They developers wouldn't put a lot of time and effort into a feature used only by a few percent of the playerbase, when that time and effort could be used to make the rest of the game better saved to cut development costs.

This would also explain why Masuda seems to think Pokémon fans like hatching eggs. The data would show that a certain fraction of the players have hatched tons and tons of eggs. Of course, he seems to have missed the context entirely.
Perhaps. Or perhaps it's an excuse to cover the fact they rushed OR/AS out the door to meet their deadline. Pressed for time, they simply plopped the Battle Maison wholesale into the middle of the Battle Resort and called it good rather than at least reskinning it into the Battle Tower.

Personally, I'd think they'd realize such information would be incomplete, if indeed they were collecting it. Not everyone playing those games would have connected to the internet at some point, either through lack of interest or lack of ability to. Some might have only ever connected before beating the Elite Four, but did proceed to challenge the Battle Tower/Frontier some time after.

It also seems odd to be almost pushing the player through the story only for there to be almost nothing to do after, especially with EV's being so transparent thanks to the Super Training screen. (itself granting players the ability to easily train their Pokemon in the stats they desire, either through the actual courses or mindlessly tapping the themed punching bags)

Ultimately, we may never truly know why the Frontier was left out of OR/AS.
 

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
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Perhaps. Or perhaps it's an excuse to cover the fact they rushed OR/AS out the door to meet their deadline. Pressed for time, they simply plopped the Battle Maison wholesale into the middle of the Battle Resort and called it good rather than at least reskinning it into the Battle Tower.
Didn't it start with B2W2 when it replaced the Battle Frontier with the Pokemon World Tournament? Now the PWT was certainly a neat feature, getting to battle all the previous Gym Leaders and Champions, though it was still a simple knock-out tournament. And I think it was some point during then GF was asked about skipping the Battle Frontier and gave the answer no many used the Battle Frontier?

Of course ORAS was also a rush job, lazily re-using the Battle Maison even though the games take 10+ years apart so are these the same Battle Chatelaines or are their names just titles (and why didn't any of the kid Gym Leaders age when they appeared in B2W2... sorry, got side tracked with GF's lack of care for a timeline except when it's convenient for them)? Now I can't blame them for doing just a plain ol' Battle Tower location for ORAS if they ran out of time, but there was other ways to handle this. Like we're told Scott is looking for the Frontier Brains, why not have a normal Battle Tower but instead of having one boss it'll be the Gen III Frontier Brains (similar to what they would do later with the Battle Tree). Or heck, keep the Battle Maison but use the Gen III Frontier Brains, why use the Chatelaines when they don't make sense. GAH!

Personally, I'd think they'd realize such information would be incomplete, if indeed they were collecting it. Not everyone playing those games would have connected to the internet at some point, either through lack of interest or lack of ability to. Some might have only ever connected before beating the Elite Four, but did proceed to challenge the Battle Tower/Frontier some time after.
Guys, let's be real. If they did any "research" what they did was probably a survey to a targeted group of the Japanese audience. And while they may have a group of dedicated players who did play the Battle Frontier, my guess is they also had several kid groups who of course didn't play through the Battle Frontier because it involved metagaming to breed the best Pokemon.

It also seems odd to be almost pushing the player through the story only for there to be almost nothing to do after, especially with EV's being so transparent thanks to the Super Training screen. (itself granting players the ability to easily train their Pokemon in the stats they desire, either through the actual courses or mindlessly tapping the themed punching bags)
They wanted to rush you to the new cut scenes of Groudon/Kyogre Primal Reverting and the entirety of the Delta Episode (especially the end where you go into space riding on Mega Rayquaza's back to destroy a meteor which contains a Deoxys). Also they were pretty much following the Ruby & Sapphire story closely, while they expanded on a few things like the Admins if you played the original Gen III games you'll know the story just fine. ORAS was also a bit of a cash grab, notably in that they didn't even bother trying to redesign the region despite going to 3D graphics.

Ultimately, we may never truly know why the Frontier was left out of OR/AS.
They didn't want to do one. That's honestly what it all comes down to. Time was short and they decided that if they gave up the Battle Frontier which they had waning interest in (maybe partially because they felt no one really used it, whether that was backed up by data or not) they could do some other things they were interested in doing (like the Delta Episode).

Sorta relating back to the topic of this thread, apparently there are two fanbases that are taken into account when making a Pokemon game: the actual fanbase and what GF thinks the fanbase is like. And the latter has a louder voice than the former despite not existing...
 
Didn't it start with B2W2 when it replaced the Battle Frontier with the Pokemon World Tournament? Now the PWT was certainly a neat feature, getting to battle all the previous Gym Leaders and Champions, though it was still a simple knock-out tournament. And I think it was some point during then GF was asked about skipping the Battle Frontier and gave the answer no many used the Battle Frontier?

Of course ORAS was also a rush job, lazily re-using the Battle Maison even though the games take 10+ years apart so are these the same Battle Chatelaines or are their names just titles (and why didn't any of the kid Gym Leaders age when they appeared in B2W2... sorry, got side tracked with GF's lack of care for a timeline except when it's convenient for them)? Now I can't blame them for doing just a plain ol' Battle Tower location for ORAS if they ran out of time, but there was other ways to handle this. Like we're told Scott is looking for the Frontier Brains, why not have a normal Battle Tower but instead of having one boss it'll be the Gen III Frontier Brains (similar to what they would do later with the Battle Tree). Or heck, keep the Battle Maison but use the Gen III Frontier Brains, why use the Chatelaines when they don't make sense. GAH!



Guys, let's be real. If they did any "research" what they did was probably a survey to a targeted group of the Japanese audience. And while they may have a group of dedicated players who did play the Battle Frontier, my guess is they also had several kid groups who of course didn't play through the Battle Frontier because it involved metagaming to breed the best Pokemon.



They wanted to rush you to the new cut scenes of Groudon/Kyogre Primal Reverting and the entirety of the Delta Episode (especially the end where you go into space riding on Mega Rayquaza's back to destroy a meteor which contains a Deoxys). Also they were pretty much following the Ruby & Sapphire story closely, while they expanded on a few things like the Admins if you played the original Gen III games you'll know the story just fine. ORAS was also a bit of a cash grab, notably in that they didn't even bother trying to redesign the region despite going to 3D graphics.



They didn't want to do one. That's honestly what it all comes down to. Time was short and they decided that if they gave up the Battle Frontier which they had waning interest in (maybe partially because they felt no one really used it, whether that was backed up by data or not) they could do some other things they were interested in doing (like the Delta Episode).

Sorta relating back to the topic of this thread, apparently there are two fanbases that are taken into account when making a Pokemon game: the actual fanbase and what GF thinks the fanbase is like. And the latter has a louder voice than the former despite not existing...
Yes, but they're not going to fully admit that to the public. That would be even dumber than what they usually do.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Smogon Media Contributor
Didn't it start with B2W2 when it replaced the Battle Frontier with the Pokemon World Tournament? Now the PWT was certainly a neat feature, getting to battle all the previous Gym Leaders and Champions, though it was still a simple knock-out tournament. And I think it was some point during then GF was asked about skipping the Battle Frontier and gave the answer no many used the Battle Frontier?

Of course ORAS was also a rush job, lazily re-using the Battle Maison even though the games take 10+ years apart so are these the same Battle Chatelaines or are their names just titles (and why didn't any of the kid Gym Leaders age when they appeared in B2W2... sorry, got side tracked with GF's lack of care for a timeline except when it's convenient for them)? Now I can't blame them for doing just a plain ol' Battle Tower location for ORAS if they ran out of time, but there was other ways to handle this. Like we're told Scott is looking for the Frontier Brains, why not have a normal Battle Tower but instead of having one boss it'll be the Gen III Frontier Brains (similar to what they would do later with the Battle Tree). Or heck, keep the Battle Maison but use the Gen III Frontier Brains, why use the Chatelaines when they don't make sense. GAH!



Guys, let's be real. If they did any "research" what they did was probably a survey to a targeted group of the Japanese audience. And while they may have a group of dedicated players who did play the Battle Frontier, my guess is they also had several kid groups who of course didn't play through the Battle Frontier because it involved metagaming to breed the best Pokemon.



They wanted to rush you to the new cut scenes of Groudon/Kyogre Primal Reverting and the entirety of the Delta Episode (especially the end where you go into space riding on Mega Rayquaza's back to destroy a meteor which contains a Deoxys). Also they were pretty much following the Ruby & Sapphire story closely, while they expanded on a few things like the Admins if you played the original Gen III games you'll know the story just fine. ORAS was also a bit of a cash grab, notably in that they didn't even bother trying to redesign the region despite going to 3D graphics.



They didn't want to do one. That's honestly what it all comes down to. Time was short and they decided that if they gave up the Battle Frontier which they had waning interest in (maybe partially because they felt no one really used it, whether that was backed up by data or not) they could do some other things they were interested in doing (like the Delta Episode).

Sorta relating back to the topic of this thread, apparently there are two fanbases that are taken into account when making a Pokemon game: the actual fanbase and what GF thinks the fanbase is like. And the latter has a louder voice than the former despite not existing...

GF might not listen to their fanbase (or at least the non-Japanese one) but nonethless we buy the games anyways and they still get money so they probably think what they are doing is correct so they don't have much to worry about. Idk I just feel like this.
 
Here's my honest, straight to the point opinions.

1. The fanbase of the franchise is actually very, VERY strong. It's just joked and memed about a lot at this point because this thing called the Internet makes it really easy for the people who don't know any better to complain excessively.

2. As much as I hate to admit this, Game Freak and The Pokemon Company probably do not, and never will care too much about how their "fanbase" sees them, as long as Pokemon is reeling in money like it has been for almost 23 years now. (1996 to 2019)
 
I actually think they do have some numbers. The Gen IV games were Internet compatible, and it would be an easy thing to code the games to send some information on Battle Frontier progress to Game Freak's servers every time they go online. The carts could easily tell Game Freak how many battles each player has had in the Battle Frontier, and show them that the vast majority of players only ever had a half-dozen battles there, if they ever got there in the first place. They developers wouldn't put a lot of time and effort into a feature used only by a few percent of the playerbase, when that time and effort could be used to make the rest of the game better saved to cut development costs.

This would also explain why Masuda seems to think Pokémon fans like hatching eggs. The data would show that a certain fraction of the players have hatched tons and tons of eggs. Of course, he seems to have missed the context entirely.
I second that. When playing on BattleSpot in Gen 6 and 7, when you battle they show statistics of trivial things on the move select screen, two of which are "Eggs hatched" and " longest streak for Maison ". Consider that data is uploaded to the server to display Pokemon statistics, I find it very believable to think they have some numbers.

Anyway, I've been thinking about Go and the fans there. Most are young to elderly adults who are very dedicated on IVs and how to play properly. In fact, several of them come in personal groups just for the raid battles. They were only like two kids who were GF target's age. Last time, I went, there was even a tourney for Pokemon Go using PvP feature. Even my English/Yearbook Advisor is hardcore Pokemon Go player, and she's 76. So.... I believe the fanbase seems to be a handful of adults rather than children, but GF doesn't seem to admit that, and are simply going the wrong direction with the games, which is why Let's Go huge backlash. 10 million units shipped is pretty low for a Pokemon Game, and GF being thrilled about it is not a good sign.
 
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Then there's the Go Audience, who were brought in players completely clueless about Pokemon to Pokemon. Heck, my English teacher/yearbook advisor didn't know a clue about Pokemon is now super hardcore Pokemon Go Nerd. Then there's children. Surprisingly, I haven't seen too many children at the events. When I go to participate raid battles, its mostly adolescents/elder people partaking it.
I must say I've never been concerned about fanbases, but the Pokémon Go audience is indeed pretty peculiar. ^^ When I started playing Pokémon and collected cards, it was just popular among all children and I barely knew any adults who liked the franchise. As years went by, I actually felt more lonely and weird, still playing "those" Pokémon games no teenager or friend was interested in. And then suddenly, the whole world was collecting Pokémon again! From what I've experienced, Pokémon Go brought in many teenagers and (more often than not) their fathers and mothers. I've noticed the same demographics for raids and community days as you, Leader Wallace. Some of my colleagues play it, some barely knew the names of the Pokémon, their evolutions, or type matchups - everything seems still new to them. It's pretty fun to act as a Pokémon professor for an older colleague unexpectedly, but I still feel detached from them and other Go players. Partly because they're either much older or younger than me, partly because I like Pokémon (not Pokémon Go) and often I feel the Go players aren't as passionate as me about the Pokémon aspect. They like to collect stuff and it just happens to be Pokémon. On the positive side, I'd never expected myself talking about Pokémon with any colleague! ^^

Since Pokemon is a bastion that has withstood the test of time it's easier to be open about it and receive a positive to neutral response. Back in the day it was tough to even talk about the game outside my friend groups, but now that Pokemon has become more than a fad, it's a safer and friendlier world to be a Pokemon fan (and I am grateful for that).
This is what I think in general as well. I consider Pokémon Go as a major cause of this (convenient) wider acceptance.
 
You know I'm starting to realize a connecting factor that all "toxic" fanbases have in common

The constant debating and backlash is the toxic part and it could be prevented entirely without this thing called THE INTERNET

It's not the Internet that I hate per se, but rather the way people use it; in a nutshell, people's mis-usage of the Internet is one of if not the main reason why I hate the newer Pokémon games so much, as I didn't have Nintendo WFC growing up, and even if I did, the community didn't seem to argue nearly as much back in the day. Why is that? Simple. People can access the Internet much easier now, and games are sacrificing offline content more for online content these days.

Why can't the franchise go back to simpler times? Actually no, scratch that. Why can't the entire industry go back? Oh, I know exactly why: BECAUSE IT MAKES MONEY. But wait- didn't Let's Go sell a bit worse than most of the older games? And all of Gen 7 for that matter? Yeah, not even money is an excuse. Going back to an age of gaming without Internet (talking online about them is fine, it's just playing online that's an issue), without constant complaining...this is why I only care about older games, and the industry should really take note of that- especially Pokémon.

Good lord, I could make an entire thread about how sad this all is...
 
I can't make a real sweeping statement on large fanbases, particularly the Pokemon fanbase, when I believe all its problems are usually shared with other fanbases, or at least components of those problems are present. Every generalization is going to have to make an inaccurate and simplified statement that will always leave out pretty big portions of the fanbase.

I'm that person who doesn't want to go back. I don't think back then was necessarily any better. Instead, we should prepare for the present and future and start being aware of the speed and convenience of expressing opinion. The internet has made it so viewpoints can be heard and perhaps even validated. We're more exposed to all sorts of opinions and viewpoints, some more valid than others. That should be considered a huge positive as now flaws and complaints can be magnified as it lets us be more mindful of pretty much everything. That information, can be overwhelming, though, and the internet also lets people constantly complain about the pettiest of things and still receive validation of it. I do guess that's a general statement of the internet that has been said so many times, but I don't think it can be said enough. The basic traits of being respectful, patient, thoughtful, reflective, and engaging in critical thinking are always useful and I think they'll make engaging with fanbases far more pleasant. But honestly, I think I rather hear complaints more than dismissal of complaints. There's the other side of the coin: blind loyalty or excessive dismissal of criticism is far worse than having small things ruin your fun of the game as it's far more easily exploitable.

I don't think people "misuse" the internet. What makes for good or bad communities isn't the means of supplying them but how the communities are handled. You need to be aware what's tolerated and not tolerated in a community before you start listening to other opinions and engage yourself, for instance. If you're in bad communities, you will get issues of toxicity and complaints because those kinds of things are tolerated, the moderation is just plain bad. IMO without some moderation, you will get GameFAQs, you will get YouTube comments. That kind of thing scares away more decent people and you get left with bad people, and it makes it easy to start generalizing a diverse fanbase. I don't think Smogon is particularly toxic, not from the relatively brief time I spend there, and I'm glad I'm learning a little more about what people think about Pokemon actually.
 
I'd like to give my two cents as a VGC player. In Pokemon's official competitive format, just like Smogon formats and every other competitive game, there are certain strategies and options (in this case, certain Pokemon) that are significantly more viable than others. Naturally, people who hope to do well by winning competitions gravitate towards these Pokemon in order to give themselves the best chance they can get.

But this is where there's a problem. Pokemon, as I'm sure everyone here knows well, is a franchise that promotes the friendship with the partners you bring on your adventure, and the statement that all Pokemon have inner potential that just needs to be brought out by a caring Trainer, above all else. Right away, you can see the disconnect: to do well in competition, you have to use Pokemon that are viable; but this directly contradicts the series's underlying message that you can and should win with your favourites. What does this translate to in the fanbase? Well, look at any of the VGC videos on Pokemon's official Youtube channel and read the comments. You see viewer after viewer disparaging the competitors for their use of legendaries, or "uncreative" teams, or "the same things as everyone else", or otherwise finding excuses for why these players don't deserve their wins. It goes without saying that this is immensely disrespectful to these players, but overall Youtube comments really should be taken with a grain of salt.

Despite what the last paragraph implies, I actually think that the Pokemon fanbase is miles better than a lot of others. There's no mistaking that every fanbase is going to have its bad apples, and those bad apples are going to make the most noise. The vast majority of Pokemon fans are wonderful people, though, and speaking personally I'd say I've been introduced to more than half my friends by means of Pokemon one way or another. But it does significantly bother me when competitive players are accused of being cheap, uncreative, heartless, etc, when they play to win. This goes both ways, too: I've seen competitive players lecturing casual players on how to play the game "properly", and I think it's just as disrespectful.

On an unrelated note,
This would also explain why Masuda seems to think Pokémon fans like hatching eggs. The data would show that a certain fraction of the players have hatched tons and tons of eggs. Of course, he seems to have missed the context entirely.
I... actually do like hatching eggs.
 
I kind of question the idea of pvp in Pokemon being a good thing to proceed. If Pokemon didn't have PvP, we wouldn't have to worry about power creep or having to balance good Pokemon or having to really care about IVs. I mean, the ship has already sailed, but balancing tons of Pokemon and moves might be far less of an issue if we didn't have to worry about PvP. Though I'm not outright denying the validity of PvP, I just wonder if PvP is a mistake and if Pokemon might've gone in a better direction if it didn't have that format. Of course, this is just speculating now and competitive Pokemon has apparently going on pretty good and I think it's skill-based enough for people to take it seriously. That's why this forum is so big and active.
 

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