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What If? - Alternate Timelines (AT #8 - Steel/Fighting Venomicon: Epilogue Ability Discussion)

HP: 60
Atk: 40
Def: 75
SpA: 98
SpD: 90
Spe: 110
BST: 473

PS: 62.89
SS: 123.63
PT: 70.46
ST: 82.58
BSR: 503.85

Esper Wing spread. Intended to be used with Eruption, Volt Switch, and one of recovery/setup/hazards. At +1 this thing outspeeds... a whole lotta stuff. Pair this with a Psychic Seed and it can even tank a Shadow Ball from a Specs SpA-invested Dragapult (with a SpA neutral nature mind you). Most of the physically oriented mons we would want to target given our type get outsped and go down in a single hit. Eruption falls off hard at lower HP, sure, but given we will always be either at high HP or at death's door I don't think that's particularly relevant. Put this thing on a sun team and watch it wreak havoc. or something.
 
HP: 98
ATK: 67
DEF: 93
SPA: 96
SPD: 88
SPE: 68
BST: 510

PS: 64.74
SS: 89.46
PT: 109.09
ST: 104.72
BSR: 498.84

Defining Moves: Torch Song (BSR -5), Calm Mind, Stored Power, Morning Sun

Optional: Esper Wing (BSR -5), Iron Defense, Cosmic Power, Healing Wish, Will-O-Wisp

This spread aims to be as fat as possible, to be able to accumulate boosts and sweep with Stored Power. Psy Terrain helps with that, by enabling Psychic Seed and Boosting Stored Power. This way, after only one CM you can already 2hko Arghonaut without Investment. Torch Song is there to make boosting offenses easier, once you've secured enough bulk. Morning Sun completes the bulky booster Toolkit.

Iron Defense could be a nasty option, instead of Calm Mind to make breaking this Mon really hard after one turn of Set Up (for reference Kingambit Hits for 35% damage after one boost), though i believe IT could be too much. A slightly milder option might be Cosmic Power, though im still unsure if that wouldnt be too much. Slow boosting also kinda contradicts the limited nature of Psychic Terrain.
Esper Wing could be an option, that would lead to a slow Speed Booster, though i dont think it complements the toolkit in the same way Stored Power does.

With the required moves plus Healing Wish and Wisp, it could also serve as a bulky Pivot, to set and support Psychic Terrain, though i assume its typing isn't really good for that, as it provides AT Hemo with very few ins only.
 
89 HP / 80 Atk / 80 Def / 88 SpA / 91 SpD / 89 Spe (517 BST)

PS: 81.49
SS: 91.64
PT: 89.02
ST: 98.99
BSR: 481.44

 Defining Moves: Armor Cannon (-5 BSR), Esper Wing (-5 BSR), Expanding Force (-10 BSR), Torch Song (-5 BSR), Volt Switch

I wanted to emulate ST Hemo's stat spread with this submission and I also thought giving it as many tools as possible would allow it to slot into various teambuilds where it may need to sweep (Torch Song + Esper Wing) or just break things (Expanding Force + Armor Cannon). I gave it some good benchmarks such as living an Earth Power from Equilibra from full while being able to Torch Song into Armor Cannon to take Equilibra out. It being more susceptible to faster Dark-types such as Roaring Moon or Darkrai is key to show that this will have a good niche at breaking things down, but still struggle when push comes to shove.

252 SpA AT Hemogoblin Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 32 SpD Arghonaut in Psychic Terrain: 378-446 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA AT Hemogoblin Torch Song vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Equilibra: 132-156 (32.3 - 38.2%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA AT Hemogoblin Armor Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Equilibra: 288-342 (70.5 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA AT Hemogoblin Armor Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 344-408 (100.8 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA AT Hemogoblin Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 116 SpD Venomicon in Psychic Terrain: 378-446 (101.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD AT Hemogoblin: 290-344 (90.9 - 107.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Equilibra Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD AT Hemogoblin: 270-318 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Neutralizing Gas Miasmaw First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def AT Hemogoblin: 297-351 (93.1 - 110%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
220 Atk Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def AT Hemogoblin: 390-462 (122.2 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Venomicon Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD AT Hemogoblin: 121-144 (37.9 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
So I should've specified to do a single bold vote like we did for ability because I don't have access to the bot for ranked pairs poll lol but for this time I just did a point system by ranking (5 for 1st, 4 for 2nd, etc.) and we have a tie between dex and myself; however, more people  voted for dex over me so congratulations to dex for the winning AT Hemo spread!
Amamama: 32
dex: 37
kenn: 37
mayonnaise. mayo.: 23
sun_dew: 33
dex said:
95 / 60 / 90 / 100 / 85 / 70 (500 BST)
Click to expand...
With that I will open the floor to any flavor aspects that people wanna contribute to (such as art, movepools, a potential new name, rtc.) and maybe run a poll in the thread for it to not clog up posts for the next AT which is...

:sv/saharaja:
What if Rock/Electric won the typing poll for Saharaja?​

You can find the original concept here and the "Forbidden Fruit" originally chosen was Diamond Storm and will remain the same in this particular AT.

We shall start things off with the Ability discussion for AT Saharaja. First off, I wanna steal some questions from original Ability Leader Darek to get us started and feel free to answer these questions with abilities you would like to potentially see.

What abilities give CAP31 greater incentive to click Diamond Storm, and in what ways? Examples of this include:
Directly improving the power of the Diamond Storm or its secondary effect.
Capitalizing off of Defense boosts.
Allowing Diamond Storm to cover more of the opponent's options.

What abilities grant CAP31 more opportunities to use Diamond Storm over the course of the game?
Click to expand...
One last note is to think of this in the state of the current SV CAP metagame despite Saharaja's process being at the tail end of SS. This is mainly due to a lot of people focused on/coming into CAP in the current gen and not the SS era. That being said, if there are any relevant points to be made that are referenced from the SS CAP metagame, feel free to mention them.

We will probably give 48-72 hours for this stage before voting on an ability!
 
As we all know, I'm silly when it comes to abilities. Therefore, why not Earth Eater?

Yes, I know, it's a signature Ability. But with Earth Eater to heal HP, combined with the Diamond Storm boosts, this thing would make an amazing wall. If none of you are inclined for it, we can also run Sand Stream for the Special Defense boosts, futhermore embracing the wall mindset.
 
Lol, I can do ya one worse; No Guard. 100% accurate Stone Edge AND Thunder. Even if it’s not necessarily an offensive build, the utility of extremely strong moves with normally poor accuracy is a powerful concept. After further reflection, I will also suggest Serene Grace to maximize the chance of Diamond Storm’s boost
 
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IronTemplar said:
Lol, I can do ya one worse; No Guard. 100% accurate Stone Edge AND Thunder. Even if it’s not necessarily an offensive build, the utility of extremely strong moves with normally poor accuracy is a powerful concept
Click to expand...
Yes, that is true. However, the concept wants us to have an ability where Diamond Storm can thrive, whether it be offensively or defensively.
 
I'll put Speed Boost forward. Since this mon is geared for a more offensive playstyle due to its typing, it'd ideally want to move first with Diamond Storm, and this ability would allow it to gain speed without dumping a ton of stats into its speed stat, giving it more room to take advantage of its defense boosts and offensive typing. Speed Boost in general provides Saharaja with the room to sweep, allowing it to use up turns with protecting or boosting while waiting to use the limited 8 PP on Diamon Storm.
 
One option I really like is Serene Grace, which would make Diamond Storm's defense-buffing effect activate every time. This makes the move a more enticing option to click and enables us to stay in against more opponents then use Diamond Storm more, since we can reliably buff our defense each turn. Diamond Storm's reliance on luck is a significant flaw of the move that makes it difficult to fully capitalize on, and Serene Grace completely fixes this. Since our typing struggles defensively, having weaknesses to very common types like Water, Ground, and Fighting, we would really appreciate the staying power. Serene Grace also synergizes with our secondary typing, since most Electric moves have a paralysis chance.

Another option I thought of is Rocky Payload, which notably did not exist when Saharaja was made. This would make a stronger offensive Saharaja; instead of leaning into the reliable bulk that Serene Grace gives, Rocky Payload makes Diamond Storm a nuke that, half the time, also makes us tankier.

Both my suggestions are just a direct buff to Diamond Storm, one focused on defense and utility, the other on offense. Another obvious ability that does this is Simple, but I dislike it here. It is restrictive, difficult to balance, and volatile, still hinging on the 50% chance to get the boost. Sure, living bulky Landorus-T's Earthquake is cool, but not if the boost doesn't happen in the first place! If we want to lean into defense boosting, I think we get more value out of the reliability Serene Grace offers.
 
Even though electric/rock is horrid defensively on first glance, this wants to be defensive and while earth eater wouldn't have been available in SS Levitate is just as functional if not better.
With Levitate this typing can confidently Switch in on Ground types, it would otherwise lose to (Libra and Colo depends on bulk but is workable).
Together with those this typing plus levitate would become an excellent switch in to Book/Ebook, Zapdos, Lando Torn-T and Heatran all of which are very high...

Ok I just read in the discord that this is for SV. Which is incredibly cringe as SV has even more common mons which resist diamond storm and are immune to electric. Great Tusk in Particular is going to be a Bitch for this, bc it can run SE STAB even if ATRaja has levitate. While Gliscor doesn't resist rock it's survivability and Toxic mean it equally doesn't require to hit it's ground type move, unless Raja boosts really fast. Equilibra we don't even even resist STAB and have nothing to hit with.
Thankfully this typing at least hits all common Unawares SE so a boosting set isn't entirely out of the question.
Tera is another thing that might allow this to function still.
I don't see a way around being incredibly cheesy though, unless we want to go for regileki forms of being held back by a singular type, that tera lets us switch out of so let's take out the cheddar!

If you wanna make quattro formaggi in SV one of the stupidest ways would likely be making a Terrain Setter with Electric Terrain.
Nothing much to say about this. Rising Voltage goes hard and viably enabling Quark Drive is potentially broken, so at least we have it on a Mon with weak defensive synergies with the drivers and easy to exploit weaknesses.
This however doesn't really synergize with Diamond Storm.

For this reason the real cheese in my opinion would be Simple though. Putting this Mon on Grassy terrain makes sense anyway and simple making Diamond Storm a potential +4 move is funny. If you have +6 defense in one turn and can tera out of your weakness, Tusk stops being such a fine answer.
Simple would also enable set up that fits with the awkward physical special split of this offensive typing through Work up and Body Press or could enable funny berry shenanigans.

Lastly given the natural pairing this type has both with balloon and Grassy Terrain I feel like unburden could be another good cheese selection.
The complementary wine would likely be moves like SD/Nasty Plot(Tail Glow?) or just really stupid mixed offensive stats to be able to dedicate 4 moveslots to coverage and the ability to tera to boost power.
 
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Here’s my flavor submission for AT Hemogoblin!
Untitled_Artwork.png

Aviascent
The Bright Idea Pokemon
Fire / Psychic
Ability: Psychic Surge

Designed around Esper Wing and Torch Song. Inspired by Pouter Pigeons, the phrase “birdbrain”, phoenixes, and general brain anatomy.

Had a ton of fun with this thread. Hope AT #2 is just as fun to design!
 
Scepticskep said:
Here’s my flavor submission for AT Hemogoblin! View attachment 670040
Aviascent
The Bright Idea Pokemon
Fire / Psychic
Ability: Psychic Surge

Designed around Esper Wing and Torch Song. Inspired by Pouter Pigeons, the phrase “birdbrain”, phoenixes, and general brain anatomy.

Had a ton of fun with this thread. Hope AT #2 is just as fun to design!
Click to expand...
this better be the battle music.
 
My flavor sub for AT Hemogoblin.

Photo Sep 17 2024, 2 56 49 PM.png


Maglirium
The Migraine Pokemon
Fire/Psychic
Ability: Psychic Surge

This design is supposed to be the embodiment of a horrible headache, the back of its head literally bursting with pain, and the veins above its eyes varicose. The mask it wears and its head shape is based on dried lava, as well as tiki torches and Cubist art like you would see out of Pablo Picasso.

I dunno what the proper format is, I'm just copying Sceptic :P
 

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Okay so it has been a good minute with no more discussion so let's get right into abilities for AT Saharaja! The slate is as follows:

Earth Eater
Serene Grace
Speed Boost
Rocky Payload
Levitate
Simple

I left Electric Surge from Amamama off of there strictly because that doesn't do much to justify the use of Diamond Storm and imo will just be seen as a setter for all the Quark Drive mons (which would get this thing theoretical usage but not because of us going down a different path of the concept which is sort of the point of this process project LOL)

Voting for this will end probably Saturday September 21st. Remember that this is single bold voting so only choose one as your favorite option for AT Saharaja's ability.

Also, I have made a poll that you can find here for y'all to vote on who had the best flavor sub between Scepticskep's post and Yu_IOTJ's post and I will gather the result from that on Saturday as well.
 
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