What If? - Alternate Timelines (AT #8 - Steel/Fighting Venomicon-Epilogue: Ability Voting)

Dawdoll's flavour!
YamiTheYin said:
back at it again
View attachment 689973
Dawdoll
The Sprite Pokemon
Ghost/Fairy

Based on Cupid, that one Rube Goldberg machine in Ghost Trick, and haunted dolls.
Click to expand...
Abilities: Poison Heal / Frisk | Soul-Heart
- Soul Heart is hardly going to be competitively viable with its 50 SpA;
CAP: Inappropriate feelings turned a blowup doll into a Pokémon. There are incidents where Dawdoll have forced people to become infatuated with another.
Bold is required, italics are repeating
1 Astonish
1 Toxic Thread
4 Shadow Sneak
7 Instruct
10 Fairy Wind
16 Silk Trap
22 Upper Hand
28 Mystical Fire
34 Trick
40 Spirit Break
48 Memento
56 Shadow Force
TM001: Take Down
TM002: Charm
TM007: Protect
TM014: Acrobatics
TM017: Confuse Ray
TM018: Thief
TM019: Disarming Voice
TM021: Pounce
TM025: Facade
TM027: Aerial Ace
TM029: Hex
TM030: Snarl
TM032: Swift
TM034: Icy Wind
TM037: Draining Kiss
TM040: Air Cutter
TM042: Night Shade
TM043: Fling
TM047: Endure
TM057: False Swipe
TM061: Shadow Claw
TM062: Foul Play
TM065: Air Slash
TM066: Body Slam
TM070: Sleep Talk
TM074: Reflect
TM075: Light Screen
TM079: Dazzling Gleam
TM080: Metronome
TM085: Rest
TM090: Spikes
TM091: Toxic Spikes
TM092: Imprison
TM094: Dark Pulse
TM096: Eerie Impulse
TM097: Fly
TM098: Skill Swap
TM103: Substitute
TM107: Will-O-Wisp
TM109: Trick
TM111: Giga Drain
TM113: Tailwind
TM114: Shadow Ball
TM117: Hyper Voice
TM118: Heat Wave
TM120: Psychic
TM124: Ice Spinner
TM127: Play Rough
TM128: Amnesia
TM130: Helping Hand
TM131: Pollen Puff
TM132: Baton Pass
TM139: Misty Terrain
TM143: Blizzard
TM151: Phantom Force
TM152: Giga Impact
TM160: Hurricane
TM161: Trick Room
TM163: Hyper Beam
TM167: Close Combat
TM171: Tera Blast
TM178: Gravity
TM179: Smack Down
TM184: Vacuum Wave
TM185: Lunge
TM190: Solar Blade
TM191: Uproar
TM195: Burning Jealousy
TM197: Dual Wingbeat
TM198: Poltergeist
TM199: Lash Out
TM201: Misty Explosion
TM202: Pain Split
TM203: Psych Up
TM205: Endeavor
TM213: Coaching
TM216: Feather Dance
TM219: Skitter Smack
TM221: Throat Chop
TM224: Curse
TM227: Alluring Voice
TM228: Psychic Noise
TM229: Upper Hand
 
Last edited:
viol and bass said:
Here are some builds I see:
  • We actually have made a CAP that consistently uses berries, which is Cawmodore. Belly Drum Sitrus sets are probably the most consistent and reliable berry users that exist. That's one really strong route we could go. Other means of cutting your health in half (Steel Beam or ghost Curse for example) don't really lend themselves to berry usage and are usually just a way to get off the field faster. Berry: Definitely Sitrus
  • Another route is basically a Stuff Cheeks + stat berry sweeper. Stuff Cheeks is kinda busted and negates the "pinch" activation condition for these berries, which is really what makes them viable. This would likely need to be paired with some other setup move. Berry: likely Salac; maybe Petaya or Liechi or starf depending on ability and stat bias
Click to expand...
Just to contribute a bit to the discussion, we have also made a FlashCAP with this exact same premise, and yes, it utilised the Stuff Cheeks + stat berry sweeper route.

Anyways for actual questions:
1) Rather than one particular berry, we should at most focus on one category of berry instead. (We have berries that heal, berries that raise a stat, berries that reduce damage, you get the gist)

2) Just to put it in perspective: of the abilities that directly correlate with us eating Berries, we have Harvest, Cheek Pouch, Cud Chew, Gluttony & Ripen. On one hand, if we manage to keep our berry, they are pretty good; on the other, should our berry be knocked off/incinerated, they become deadweight. So the more accurate question should be, how dependent are we on Berries?

On that note, I'm gonna nominate Poison/Psychic. Us not having to be whittled down because of Poison helps if we use HP-restoring berries as well as STAB with Belch, and STAB Stored Power is also a bonus. Alternatively, if we're going to tread old ground, Poison/Dark, where instead of STAB Stored Power we have STAB Power Trip and immunity from Prankster-status moves to remove items.
 
Last edited:
kenn said:
1) Do we wanna focus on a particular Berry or keep it as open as possible for potential use of multiple kinds of Berries?
Click to expand...

Gonna agree with Ayecrusher that focusing on a category of berry is certainly more interesting than a single berry, and I think focusing on the stat boosting berries is the clearest option as they provide the most interactibility with the user, rather than damage halving or healing berries.

kenn said:
2) Should we account for the fact that certain abilities related to Berries thrive in certain conditions? Why or why not?
Click to expand...

Realistically the only ability this describes would be Harvest, and frankly those conditions do not limit the typing significantly. Besides, there's plenty of abilities to go with for this concept.

For typings, I'm gonna go with Dark/Fighting. Body Press and Power Trip are both physical, allowing them to work efficiently together when paired with Stuff Cheeks and berry boosts. The 4x Dark resistance also makes us less weak to Knock Off, which is important since AT Chugg relies on its item.
 
And with 5 votes, Poison/Dark is the winner for AT Chugg 2!

Now onto abilities...do we think there is any merit in a "non-Berry related" ability? Why or why not?

Do we wanna just stick to the sparse selection of Berry-related abilities as our primary ability choice?

I will give discussion on this about 72 hours!
 
Altough there is definitely merit in a non-berry related ability, i feel it is more interesting to focus on berry related abilities. I believe a berry based ability creates a more interesting dynamic in terms of AT Chugg's reliance on utilizing a specific item while leaving room to create a powerful and unique pokemon. Specifically needing to use a berry, rather than it being a bonus, to reach its full potential seems the more in concept path.

My preference for such abilities would go to things like Ripen or Cud Chew.
 
Seconding Iron Crusher's opinion. To paraphrase spoo during OT Chugg's nerf, there aren't many winning Chugg sets that did use Throat Spray; if we're set on using Berries as our held item we're going to need a lot of incentive for players to give it a berry rather than another item.

For suggestions, Ripen is a quick fire way to double the benefits; alternatively, Cheek Pouch provides us with a little bit more sustainability.
 
Gonna have to agree with the stance that berry based abilities are the way to go in order to incentive using a berry.

Since it's not been mentioned, I'm going to put forward Harvest. Even outside of sun, the ability to restore a berry at the end of 1/2 of every turn is extremely useful for a mon built around berries. Additionally, with the ability to regrow your berry, it prevents Stuff Cheeks from becoming a dead move slot after the first berry eaten or after getting your berry Knocked Off.
 
Scepticskep said:
Additionally, with the ability to regrow your berry, it prevents Stuff Cheeks from becoming a dead move slot after the first berry eaten or after getting your berry Knocked Off.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, Harvest doesn't regenerate berries that are Knocked Off, so even with our typing we'd still want to avoid getting knocked before we have consumed our berry. That's not to say we can't take advantage of Harvest, but that we'd have to be careful with how and who we switch in on.
 
Harvest feels to me like a higher-power option than Ripen, Cud Chew or Cheek Pouch. You have to build around its weaknesses to Knock Off, but that's not super hard to do. Being fast may be enough by itself. You could just run sub since we resist Knock, but in theory even without sub you could do something like Stuff Cheeks, tank a knock off because you were already itemless, then regenerate the berry at the end of the turn. Repeat ad nauseum. If you don't harvest the berry, it can't be knocked off the following turn anyway.

The other abilities being one-offs (or two-offs I guess in the case of Cud Chew) make them a bit less interesting to me but still workable.
 
Time to put your voting muscle to use! Clearly the consensus is for a beery-based ability since nothing else was suggested so here is the slate!

Ripen
Cud Chew
Cheek Pouch
 Harvest

Reminder that voting is a single bold vote and voting will end in ~24 hours!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top