What If? - Alternate Timelines (AT #8 - Steel/Fighting Venomicon-Epilogue: Ability Voting)

Okay it is time for the results! First off there was a tie in the art poll so I casted my vote which means congratulations has to go to Scepticskep with their Nimbastion!

Then for stats, there was 8 total votes and half of them went to... Scepticskep as well! So congratulations to them for completing the sweep!

Now onto our next AT...

:venomicon::sv/venomicon::venomicon:
What if Venomicon was Steel/Fighting?

This one was one I have personally wanted to see for quite some time as we all know just how well Venomicon performs in the current CAP metagame. That being said, we have two formes of Venomicon so what we shall be doing is going through the ability stage for each one as well as a stats stage which means this AT will be a bit longer than most of our usual ones. First off, we shall discuss Venomicon-P's ability! As a reminder here is Venomicon's concept:​
  • Name - Optimized Ability
  • Description - This CAP would seek to utilize one or more Abilities which are, at face value, competitively viable, but which are only found on unviable or excessively niche Pokémon, or are paired with objectively better Abilities. The goal is to explore how these Abilities could impact the metagame if they were properly utilized.
  • Justification- Archetype: This CAP seeks to explore one or more underutilized Abilities which could have a meaningful impact on the metagame, but are rarely or never seen because of the Pokémon they are found on, or the other Abilities they have to compete with. With two Forms we can explore the same Ability from two differant angles, or explore two differant Abilities, providing us with greater insight into how these traditionally neglected Abilities could function.
  • Questions To Be Answered-
    • Why are some Abilities seen as better or more viable than others? Is it strictly a function of the Ability itself, or are other factors involved? What are those factors?
    • What new strategies become available with optimized Abilities? Are these strategies competitively viable, or just gimmicks?
    • Are there Abilities that may have been overlooked or disregarded because of poor utilization? Are some worth a second look, even if they lack immediate competitive merit?
  • Explanation -This is, at it's core, a pretty simple Concept. There are various Abilities which, at least to me, seem to sit somewhere between being considered competitively viable and not being competitive at all. Abilities like Steam Engine, Merciless, Heavy/Light Metal, etc., all have a strong competitive impact at face value, but never seem to make it into our discussion during the Ability Stage. While there are probably many factors involved, I think at least some of the issue may simply be a matter of false equivalence; the idea that, since X Ability sucks on Y Pokmon, it must be bad in general. It's understandable. Why would you pick Merciless for Toxapex when it has access to Regenerator, which is an objectively better Ability for a Tank/Wall? At the same time, I think it's important to understand what the real value of some of these Abilities may be, and how they can effect the metagame if they were used "correctly". If given everything they need to succeed, could these Abilities prove to be viable, or are they truly flawed? That is the crux of this Concept.
EDIT: I feel like we need to figure out this Item as soon as possible so we understand what, if any, effects it might have beyond form-changing CAP 30, and how those effects might alter future Stages.
Click to expand...

We shall do this one step at a time so basically we will do Venomicon-P's ability discussion then voting and then Venomicon-E's ability discussion then voting and same goes for when we get to the Stats stage.

Lastly, this also means that art is now OPEN for AT Chuggalong 2 and will end when stats voting for Venomicon-E goes up.

Let's give this a good bit of time so somewhere between 72-96 hours!
 
kenn said:
Okay it is time for the results! First off there was a tie in the art poll so I casted my vote which means congratulations has to go to Scepticskep with their Nimbastion!

Then for stats, there was 8 total votes and half of them went to... Scepticskep as well! So congratulations to them for completing the sweep!
Click to expand...
We are so back.

Anyways, onto the next AT CAP! Steel/Fighting offers some pretty great offensive coverage alongside an incredible defensive profile, which makes it very interesting when discussing a form changing mon. Since we're discussing the AT of Venomicon-P, I wanted to look into underutilized defensive abilities that mesh well with our excellent defensive typing.

My first choice was Effect Spore. This ability struck me immediately as a massively valuable but highly underlooked ability. It's current distribution is between Vileplume, Amoonguss, and Breloom. Vileplume usually runs Effect Spore, but falls short of other defensive walls. Amoonguss solely runs Regenerator, and Breloom has two superior abilities in Technician and Poison Heal. However, Effect Spore is an incredibly underlooked defensive ability, with similar utility to Flame Body and Static, both of which have provided Moltres and Zapdos relevance in the current meta. The ability to potentially paralyze or sleep a physical attacker is incredibly potent, especially on a typing that absorbs U-Turn's like nothing alongside Dark and Steel.

My second choice was Opportunist. One of my favorite new abilities lost to the fact that its sole owner Espathra was banned for another, objectively broken ability in Speed Boost. There are an incredibly high amount of setup mons in CAP. Bulk Up is commonly used by Hemogoblin and Revenakh, and Chuggalong has its omniboost in Clangorous Soul. This pairs well with our typing in Steel/Fighting, as the impressive defensive profile allows us to sit in front of set up sweepers and defensive set up well, and allows us to completely wall Chuggalong’s STAB and setup. Fighting also has great STAB moves such as Sacred Sword to deal with defensive setup mons and Body Press to make use of opposing defensive setup. Steel prevents Toxic from ruining our progress once setup.
 
You know why I'm here by now.
Scepticskep said:
my flavor submission for AT Miasmaw

View attachment 697327
Nimbastion the Fortress Pokemon
Electric / Dark

Inspired by Fortresses, Thunderclouds, snapping turtles and symbiotic relationships. The bird on top also resembles a weather vane.
Click to expand...
CAP: Nimbastion manifests the bad luck it absorbs in the form of an electric bird from its shell. The bird becomes animate should a thunderstorm approach.
1 Thunder Shock
6 Peck
11 Switcheroo
16 Payback
21 Spark
28 Bite
35 Protect
42 Topsy-Turvy
49 Jaw Lock
56 Thunder Cage
61 Dragon Hammer
70 Foul Play
79 Hurricane
88 Zap Cannon
Counter
Dragon Breath
Shell Smash
TM001: Take Down
TM006: Scary Face
TM007: Protect
TM008: Fire Fang
TM009: Thunder Fang
TM013: Acid Spray
TM020: Trailblaze
TM023: Charge Beam
TM025: Facade
TM030: Snarl
TM031: Metal Claw
TM032: Swift
TM042: Night Shade
TM044: Dragon Tail
TM045: Venoshock
TM047: Endure
TM048: Volt Switch
TM050: Rain Dance
TM053: Smart Strike
TM058: Brick Break
TM060: U-turn
TM061: Shadow Claw
TM062: Foul Play
TM063: Psychic Fangs
TM066: Body Slam
TM070: Sleep Talk
TM072: Electro Ball
TM077: Waterfall
TM078: Dragon Claw
TM080: Metronome
TM082: Thunder Wave
TM083: Poison Jab
TM085: Rest
TM087: Taunt
TM089: Body Press
TM091: Toxic Spikes
TM094: Dark Pulse
TM095: Leech Life
TM096: Eerie Impulse
TM098: Skill Swap
TM100: Dragon Dance
TM103: Substitute
TM107: Will-O-Wisp
TM108: Crunch
TM114: Shadow Ball
TM115: Dragon Pulse
TM117: Hyper Voice
TM118: Heat Wave
TM122: Encore
TM124: Ice Spinner
TM126: Thunderbolt
TM130: Helping Hand
TM132: Baton Pass
TM134: Reversal
TM136: Electric Terrain
TM139: Misty Terrain
TM147: Wild Charge
TM148: Sludge Bomb
TM151: Phantom Force
TM152: Giga Impact
TM156: Outrage
TM158: Focus Blast
TM160: Hurricane
TM163: Hyper Beam
TM164: Brave Bird
TM166: Thunder
TM171: Tera Blast
TM172: Roar
TM173: Charge
TM180: Gyro Ball
TM181: Knock Off
TM183: Super Fang
TM184: Vacuum Wave
TM191: Uproar
TM196: Flip Turn
TM199: Lash Out
TM201: Misty Explosion
TM204: Double-Edge
TM210: Supercell Slam
TM211: Electroweb
TM214: Sludge Wave
TM221: Throat Chop
TM222: Breaking Swipe
TM224: Curse
 
The only ability that really comes to mind is Emergency Exit. It has the potential on a fast pokemon to let them switch out second (if bulky enough), getting a safe switch in for bulky structures, and can especially be useful for HO as a sash/scarf lead, setting hazards and getting a safe switch if attacked, or not losing a mon if hazard trade. Toxic immunity is always nice, too.

I would also like to pitch Keeping Stamina, namely with conjunction with STAB Body Press, as its still fitting of the Restriction and serves a different role than it does in CAP - IronPress Sweeper. Steel/Fighting isn’t just a good defensive typing, after all.
The ability also meshes well with our typing - fighting + ground weakness is fairly physical-leaning - and the new typing allows us to more comfortably run items aside from HDB. Assault Vest & Rocky Helmet come to mind in particular.

TL;DR: My suggestions for AT #8s abilities are Stamina and Emergency Exit.
 
As the one who submitted Steel/Fighting for Venomicon back during its process, I'm really excited for this one :333

I'm assuming that the AT Venomicon forms will have the same roles as their ST counterparts, so AT Venomicon-P will also be defensive in nature. With that and the original concept (underutilized abilities) taken into consideration, the three (technically four, but two of them are variations of each other) abilities that stand out the most to me are Filter/Solid Rock, Heatproof, and Well-Baked Body. Fighting/Steel is already a fantastic defensive typing, with a whopping eight resistances, one immunity, and only three weaknesses. These abilities all play into that by either reducing the damage taken from SE moves or outright turning a weakness into a second immunity (with the added bonus of a +2 Defense boost for the latter. They also fit very well with the original concept due to being very uncommon abilities found on mediocre Pokemon (Heatproof is in a bit of a gray area here because of Sinistcha, but I'd argue that the distribution is still low enough to make it count). Of these Abilities, my favorite is Well-Baked Body just because of how insane of an Ability it is, but would be fine with any of them!

Honorable mention goes to Wandering Spirit, a really cool signature Ability that has real untapped potential!
 
With that it is time to vote on the ability for AT Venomicon-P!

Effect Spore
Opportunist
Emergency Exit
Stamina
Filter/Solid Rock
Heatproof
Well-Baked Body
Wandering Spirit

Voting ends in 24 hours!
 
Scepticskep said:
you can! Speaking of which:

Effect Spore
Click to expand...
Ah. In that case:
Still heatproof. Sorry, obvious joke is obvious, but heatproof could make this thing a nasty burn absorber, especially since leftovers would actually outheal it. Not to mention, WBB sees usage in AAA, but heatproof is truly a sad case of being outclassed
 
And to no surprise, Well-Baked Body is the winner! With that, it is time to discuss AT Venomicon-E's ability! This one should be more offensive in nature to mirror ST Venomicon-E! I will give discussion on this ~48 hours to voting. Have fun talking it out!
 
Heatproof would’ve been more interesting smh my head (I’m only kidding, WBB is pretty neat)

Edit: I have no pitch for this round, sorry. Unless something greater pops up, my vote is likely cast for Rattled.
 
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Although it's not an inherently super powerful ability, this is one of the best use cases for Rattled that I've ever seen. This mon already enjoys switching into Knock Off since it can't lose its item, it comes in on things like Kingambit, Meowscarada, and non-Focus Blast Darkrai, it resists U-turn (including from Lokix due to the 4x resist), it's kind of a magnet for Lando (Rattled activates when you're intimidated), and it's not weak to Ghost. You'll need pretty well-allocated stats to make this naturally lower-power ability work, but it's pretty neat and discourages Hamurott from clicking Ceaseless Edge for example. Only babies and weird shit like Wugtrio and Dudunsparce are blessed with it.

Mega Launcher is cool if you pretend bulletproof libra isn't a thing. STAB Aura Sphere absolutely chunks since it's boosted by the ability and Virtuous Vial (that's a 2.7x multiplier; 3.6x with tera). You also gain pseudo-STAB Dark Pulse and Dragon Pulse (and situationally Terrain Pulse) as boosted coverage. All that shit is walled by fairies, but surprise, you have Vial-boosted Steel STAB. so it's kinda cool. Distribution is just Clawitzer (ZU mon) and Mega Blastoise (RU in gen 7). Good ability confined to shitmons (I'm sorry Blastoise). Bulletproof Libra isn't real it can't hurt you
 
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I'm mostly only suggesting Scrappy because of the two Steel/Ghost types in the CAP metagame right now. It is a useful ability for targeting those two mons (and whatever other Ghosts there are in the metagame), but something to keep in mind is that at the end of the day it is strictly for hitting those two and practically nothing else. Choosing this ability will mean giving up on any abilities that would improve our damage causing capabilities, which does have the capability to be built around with due to the item and stat reallocation from the form change, but it is something to keep in mind.
 
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