What If? - Alternate Timelines (AT Shox [Wall + No Recovery] - Stats Submissions!)

[quziel]

Realistically Body Press is a really good option for us; it synergizes hard with Stamina, it hits Libra/Heatran/Gambit. If we're assuming CAP Song + Body Press as some of our coverage, then we have realstically a lot of flex with the rest of our moveset.

Ground Coverage means we hit Ghold, Gking, and Hemogoblin, which is extremely useful for us. Twave/Wisp/Etc are always useful, although open us up to cresc syndrome where we can Twave / Wisp Gking once and then it just pivots on us forever afterwards. Taunt is extremely useful given our implied checks; we're open to being Twaved ourselves, and our alt form otherwise walls some mons that could status us and cripple us. I sorta like Ghost coverage (aka Hex), but realistically the limited nature of most special Ghost moves means this is probably not a main set option, as much as Tera Ghost Hex is my favorite thing ever.

I think I'd rather have us in a pseudo-AV role, where we're just relying on bulk, typing, and speed to sorta trade efficiently into an enemy team rather than using Recovery to last forever. On that note, Knock Off (optionally giving one forme great attack) is really good for us; it hits basically every check to CAP Song / Bpress. Finally Moonblast is a great optional move; there's a lot of validity in letting us crank special attack high enough that we're doing good damage with CAP song, and Moonblast sorta precludes that option by making just standard breaker sets too good. Finally, Psychic Noise is really cool on us given Mollux.

 

[Guingil]

Had a hard time wrapping my head around what this Pokémon is supposed to do, S/O to the people on Discord for showing me the possibilities.

Taunt should be mandatory, with our assumed speediness and vulnerability to paralysis. Also has nice synergy with Stamina by forcing offensive moves, as others have said.

50% Recovery has received support in the thread. I'd put Taunt as more important than healing, which can be provided by Leftovers, but it's still a great option. With CAP Song/Taunt/50% Recovery, and a final coverage slot, we can be a Tank or a Wall. Given that we can be a stubborn "stay-in"er, the gameplan of becoming more defensively potent with more turns while resetting progress against us with 50% Recovery seems straightforward enough. I imagine offenses being on the above average side to not be too passive, given the lack of utility otherwise.

Coverage (and Body Press) seem pretty necessary if we want some offensive function, given that we don't get much out of our other STABs and CAP Song isn't spammable. Water and Ground are top picks. Body Press seems innocuous or a tech option at best, despite the boosts, given it does not do much to staples like Glowking, Mollux, ghosts.

Moonblast I'm personally not a big fan of. CAP Song being our only Fairy STAB introduces important restrictions to how we play (we can't spam it, e.g.), in addition to the benefit of the defensive transformation. So navigating situations with only CAP song, coverage and Stamina is an avenue for skill expression which Moonblast removes. Moonblast's power and spammability also affect stats and setup, specifically to the point of a weaker CAP Song. This is similar to how Freeze Dry, which provides compression, was negatively impacted by Blizzard being a universally assumed moves for ST Ramnarok despite the benefit of No Guard.

Setup, specifically slower setup like Calm Mind, is good for us. We have time to get these boosts off with the switches we force with our type change. With a combination of Stamina and Calm Mind, and our transform, it's easy to become close to unkillable after a few turns. This probably comes at the cost of reduced initial offenses. This most likely requires Taunt, as unlike comparable mons like CM Clefable, Curse Garganacl, CM Hatterene, or Guard Dog BU Okidogi, we do not have an in-built immunity to status or being phazed out. BU Ceruledge uses it to this effect, and what we lack in a healing move like Bitter Blade, we make up for with Stamina and the defensive transformation.

I notice a dilemma between 50% Recovery and Setup. Assuming we want Taunt, we can't viably run both of these options together, as we probably also want an offensive move other than CAP Song, one that does not change our forme. On 50% Recovery kits, we want decent to high offensive stats to not be a sitting duck, while on Setup, we want them to be a bit lower so as to not be overpowered AND unkillable after one setup. So I propose the following:

Choose one of 50% Recovery or Setup

 

[kenn]

Okay so there has been quite a bit more discussion than I expected on this (which I am happy to see) but I think we have a general idea of what moves we want to define when it comes to submitting stats and therefore the parameters are as follows:

Required: Universally Assumed Moves for Fairy-, Dragon-, and Steel-types, CAP Song, Body Press, Taunt
Optional (with penalties): Choose  ONE of: Calm Mind (-10 BSR), 50% Recovery (-15 BSR), or Take Heart (-25 BSR)

Water Coverage, Ground Coverage (-5 BSR), Psychic Coverage (-5 BSR)

And with that, here are the stat limits as provided to us by the ST Ramnarok process:

Aria: 640 BSR limit
SS ~175

Pirouette: 670 BSR limit
SS ~120

T Value = 2

You'll notice I took away the speed penalties from the ST Ram limits strictly because we don't necessarily care about being as fast as ST Ram (though Speed is still important just not enough for penalties lol)

Stat submissions are now OPEN! Please check and make sure everything falls into the parameters and I am probably leaving this particular stage open for ~7 days strictly due to how much time stats take to fully flesh out and because I will be out of town from Saturday to Tuesday so have fun and if you have and questions or concerns hmu in the AT thread in CAPcord!

 

[traceyscetchit]

WIP
Optional Defining Moves: Surf, Calm Mind (-10 BSR)

AT11-Aria:

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe	BST
115	94	100	120	60	111	600

PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
116.25	145.51	127.63	84.55	626.67

AT11-Pirouette:

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe	BST
115	49	70	90	165	111	600

PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
71.92	116.16	94.91	198.41	658.71

The speed is enough to outspeed ogerpon, walking wake, enamorus, iron treads, and a bunch of poison types that we like transforming on, like chuggalong, unboosted iron moth, and venomicon-epilogue. The other stats are eyeballed.
I'll come back and refine the stats to hit some key calcs later. Note that the pirouette form has a ST higher than ANY pokemon so far, but it can't be used on stall very effectively due to being aria on switch-in. I'm contemplating adding hydro pump to the defining moves.

EDIT: I REALLY wanted pirouette to have a big physical bulk for body press shenanigans and so that it didn't compete with calm mind. Unfortunately, I have had to swallow the bitter pill that steel/fairy just isn't a great typing for a physical wall. Gliscor, ting-lu, zamazenta, arghonaut, ogerpon-w, caribolt, ceruledge, landorus, samurott, ogerpon-g, ursaluna, cinderace, and garchomp ALL have better matchups into steel/fairy than dragon fairy. On the other side of the spectrum, the primary viable physical attackers that steel/fairy does better into are... uh... weavile, ogerpon-cornerstone, kingambit, and kitsunoh??? Yeah, steel/fairy just makes more sense to be the special wall, where it can check all of the special poison and fairy types. It's ok though, as the special bulk increases by about double when transforming, so calm mind doesn't compete with CAP song too much. I really wish we could start with fairy/steel so this wouldn't be an issue and so rocks wouldn't be an issue, but it is what it is.

 

[Guingil]

Final Submission

Defining moves: Body Press, Surf, Take Heart (-25 BSR), Stored Power/Psychic Noise (-5 BSR)

AT11-Aria:
​

HP​	Atk​	Def​	SpA​	SpD​	Spe​	BST​
95​	70​	160​	89​	60​	126​	600​

PS​	SS​	PT​	ST​	BSR​
96.12​	119.42​	172.12​	75.43​	609.76​

AT11-Pirouette:
​

HP​	Atk​	Def​	SpA​	SpD​	Spe​	BST​
95​	70​	60​	89​	160​	126​	600​

PS​	SS​	PT​	ST​	BSR​
96.12​	119.42​	74.84​	172.18​	609.11​

The stat spread is built around symmetrical formes, with 100 points shifted between Defense and Special Defense upon transforming with CAP Song. 126 Speed is to outspeed everything up to Darkrai, to pull off faster transformations safely. The super high Defense stat ensures we can come in on physical attackers like Wogerpon and Great Tusk safely and start boosting up with Take Heart. +1 Body Press acts as an offensive deterrent, 2HKOing Wogerpon, Kyurem, and Garganacl, while also dealing significant damage to Ting-Lu. Realistically, though, we can expect Ghost-, Poison-, Flying-, Fairy-, or Bug-types to switch into us. Aria's low Special Defense (even at +1) leaves it vulnerable to moves run by these Pokémon, like Sludge Bomb or Malignant Chain, incentivizing transforming into Pirouette. There, the game plan becomes continuing to boost with Take Heart, not caring about status, and transforming back and forth if necessary.

Surf and Psychic coverage are provided to copy Chuggalong, although we have space to run only one. Stored Power has synergy with our setup strategy, allowing AT11 to blast past Unaware walls after enough boosts (and the Dark-types immune to it don't like Body Press or a boosted CAP Song). Alternatively, Psychic Noise can be used for immediate utility.

For all its strengths, the lack of reliable recovery means this spread can be chipped down. 4MSS also makes it difficult to run Taunt, meaning setup attackers like Hemogoblin and Revenankh can set up in front of us to take advantage of our lackluster damage before boosts, relying on the fact that Stamina activates only if they choose to hit us.

Some inspirations for this spread were Cosmic Power sets like Mew and Deoxys, Ting-Lu, Latias/Cresselia, Cresceidon, Zamazenta, and Venomicon.
​

Calcs

Aria
--------------
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def AT11-Aria: 61-72 (15.4 - 18.2%) -- possible 8HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def AT11-Aria: 88-105 (22.3 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO

+1 4 Def AT11-Aria Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 151-178 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Def AT11-Aria Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 284-336 (72.6 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Def AT11-Aria Body Press vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 200-236 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 4 Def AT11-Aria Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 214-254 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD AT11-Aria: 212-252 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Pecharunt Malignant Chain vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD AT11-Aria: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Cresceidon Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD AT11-Aria: 186-222 (47.2 - 56.3%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Pirouette
--------------
+2 252+ Atk Revenankh Poltergeist over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Stamina AT11-Pirouette: 376-443 (95.4 - 112.4%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA AT11-Pirouette Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Revenankh: 120-142 (32.9 - 39%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Hemogoblin Extreme Speed over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Stamina AT11-Pirouette: 464-552 (117.7 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA (+2 SpD) AT11-Pirouette Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hemogoblin: 144-170 (43.5 - 51.3%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA AT11-Pirouette Surf vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Hemogoblin: 130-154 (39.2 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

TLDR

 

[AzothBend]

Final Submission
Defining Moves: CAP Song, Body Press, Taunt, Flip Turn , Calm Mind (-10 BSR)

Aria: 87 HP / 108 Atk / 52 Def / 142 SpA / 85 SpD / 126 Spe | 135.50 PS / 174.92 SS / 63.92 PT / 95.09 ST / 629.14 BSR

Pirouette: 87 HP / 48 Atk / 142 Def / 92 SpA / 120 SpD / 111 Spe | 71.45 PS / 119.16 SS / 147.31 PT / 127.49 ST / 642.23 BSR

Probably will update with specific calcs later but wanted to get this up. It's a bit more of an offensively-oriented submission. The idea was a build that forced between safe plays that maintain the game state and riskier plays that advance the game state. Best example of this is Cresceidon where CAP Song, Calm Mind, and Taunt all can advance the game state but one bad call risks big damage or paralysis

Flip Turn here because the build can get out of hand quickly with Calm Mind + Water coverage. Flip Turn is almost antithetical to the concept of staying in and boosting stats that AT11 has. But it's an alternative to Taunt if you prefer, and AT11 has to speed + phys power to use it well enough.

 

[kenn]

Okay so after quite a bit of time (I had a long weekend away and will be gone next week so the next AT may be a tad delayed just as a heads up) it is time to vote on AT Ramnarok's stats. For transparency purposes, the following stat spreads are the only ones that final subbed and are therefore the slate so without further ado, here is the slate!

Aria: 95 HP / 70 Atk / 160 Def / 89 SpA / 60 SpD / 126 Spe (600 BST)
Pirouette: 95 HP / 70 Atk / 60 Def / 89 SpA / 160 SpD / 126 Spe (600 BST) by Guingil

Aria: 87 HP / 108 Atk / 52 Def / 142 SpA / 85 SpD / 126 Spe (600 BST)
Pirouette: 87 HP / 48 Atk / 142 Def / 92 SpA / 120 SpD / 111 Spe (600 BST) by AzothBend

Reminder to those voting that now all voting is done in the AT tab of CAPcord dedicated to doing as such so please head on over there to make your vote count! I will leave voting open for ~24 hours before we finalize the AT and open up art submissions!

 

[kenn]

The results are in and by a vote of 5 to 3... AzothBend you are evicted from the Big Brother house the winner!

With that, art submissions for AT Ramnarok are now OPEN! and while we usually begin the next AT while art trickles in, I am gonna be on vacation from July 6th to July 12th so I figured it would be best to not have us begin the next one until I am back and just leave the thread open for AT Ram artwork.

I am excited to see some absolute bangers from those that have mentioned they are working on something for this in CAPcord and I will see y'all after my vacation!

EDIT: All art submissions are free to choose the names of the respective formes for AT Ramnarok

 

[Scepticskep]

I’m back with some AT Art! Here’s my submission for AT Ramnarok:

Gorgasque-Grimmscale
The Dual Serpent Pokemon
Fairy/Dragon
Ability: Stamina

Gorgasque-Steelguard
The Fortress Serpent Pokemon
Fairy/Steel
Ability:Stamina

Based on gorgons, gargoyles, tarrasques, and the fairytale trope of the princess in a castle guarded by a dragon. It petrifies its own body to become a steel fortress.

Gorgasque transforms into its Steelguard form with it’s signature move:

Petrific Glare
Type: Fairy
75 BP
Has a 10% chance to paralyze the target.

This gal was super hard to design but I’m happy with how she came out!

 

[Yaheg]

here is my sub for AT11! I'll just go ahead and steal Skep's format :P

Aliascorn-Overture
The Pokemon
Fairy/Dragon
Ability: Stamina

Aliascorn-Aperture
The Pokemon
Fairy/Steel
Ability: Stamina

Etymology

Aliascorn - /ˈeɪ.li.əsˌkɔɹn/

derives from Alias + Alicorn + Scorn

Alias refers both to the mon hiding using a drab identity, and to the digital image artifact of "Aliasing"

Overture is from the first form's glam inspiration, and also from an Overture being the introduction to a musical work (fitting for, well, the first form),

and Aperture refers to the mon's relation to photography and its particular looking wings in its second form

celebrities tend to go out in drab clothing like jackets and sunglasses to hide their identity in public and avoid paparazzi. mythical creatures and cryptids always seem to show up as a blur when photographed.

similarly, whenever a human trainer approaches or tries documenting it, Aliascorn will transform from its flashy Overture form into the Aperture form, whose metal coating distorts and blurs its shape.

it does so using its signature move:

Shutter Flash
Type: Fairy
75 BP
Has a 10% to lower the target's Evasion by 1.

looking back, I may have overdesigned Overture in comparison to Aperture (who was designed first), but Aperture's whole thing is not being too flashy, so I'll act as if it works. also, funnily enough, I did not come up with the idea with Punk Rock in mind, so it was neat seeing it pop up in ability discussion :0

 

[YamiTheYin]

this AT has given me so many questions on the localization process for Pokemon that are just not going to be answered...

Wu-Hsien - Serpent
The Celebration Pokemon
Fairy/Dragon

Wu-Hsien - Lion
The Celebration Pokemon
Fairy/Steel

Based on dragon dances and lion dances.

Prosperity Wish
Fairy - 75 BP
10% chance to sleep foe(s). Wu-Hsien transforms.

Name Explanation/Translation

"Wu" comes from 舞, which means 'dance'. It is also part of the Chinese names for dragon dance (舞龙) and lion dance (舞狮).
"Hsien" is the Wade-Giles system's romanization of 仙, which is used in the Chinese localization of Pokemon for a few Fairy Pokemon since 仙子 means 'fairy'. On its own 仙 also means 'immortal', which implies the Mythical status of this Pokemon.

I know why the localization team used the Wade-Giles system for the Treasures of Ruin, but what do you mean 'xian' in Pinyin becomes 'hsien' in Wade-Giles??? And why do the Treasures of Ruin use a dash in their names????

 

[traceyscetchit]

my computer skills are horrendous but this was good practice regardless

Pawjin - Unbottled
The Twisted Pokemon
Fairy/Dragon

Pawjin - Bottled
The Twisted Pokemon
Fairy/Steel

Based on genies; it's "twisted" in its pose, horns, attitude, and wish interpretations.

As You Wish
Type: Fairy
75 BP
10% chance to sleep foe(s). Pawjin transforms.

etymology

Paw refers to both its floating paws/claws and the short horror story "The Monkey's Paw." Jin is from jinn or genie. Note that the "I" in pawjin is pronounced like a long "E." (paw-zheen)

 

[Bloopyghost]

hi it's been a while

Here I got Questume, the Fairytale Pokémon. Its forme names are Questume-Scaleskin and Questume-Dragonslayer. Its move is Role Reversal, which has a 10% chance to confuse the target.

 

[IMakeNoSense]

Aejagard, the Hero Pokémon!
(aegis + jade + guard + “gar-” gargoyle)

Aejagard-Warding - Fairy/Dragon

Aejagard-Bulwark - Fairy/Steel

It uses it’s move Aura Lustre, which gives a 10% chance to flinch the opponent.

The design is based around gargoyles, whom protect buildings from evil spirits, and knights.

 

[AzothBend]

Aromodo-Flagrant
The Incense Pokemon
Fairy/Dragon

Aromodo-Censered
The Incense Pokemon
Fairy/Steel

It's signature move is Soothing Aroma, a 75 BP Fairy-type move with a 10% chance to put the target to sleep

 

[kenn]

Okay! I am back from vacation which means it is time to open up art voting! As with the past couple of slates, voting now occurs in the CAP AT Voting thread in CAPcord but here is the slate for AT Ramnarok's art! So without further ado...

Gorgasque by Scepticskep
Aliascorn by Yaheg
Wu-Hsien by YamiTheYin
Pawjin by traceyscetchit
Questume by Bloopyghost
Aejagard by IMakeNoSense
Aromodo by AzothBend

I will leave voting open for art for ~48 hours because there are so many submissions this time around (which is wild and amazing!)

Also, a new AT is on the horizon and as per this message we are going to be diving into an alternate timeline where Shox ends up as a Wall with No Recovery! I think the major thing is with this being declared, we as a community need to figure out exactly what allows a wall to thrive in the CAP metagame as it stands especially one with no recovery since most (if not all) walls have some form of recovery (Arghonaut, Mollux, ST Shox, etc.) The bar is fairly high on how a CAP can actively thrive without recovery and we need to find that bar and match it. Therefore, we shall be doing a CA of sorts on what exactly makes a wall thrive without access to recovery (specifically 50% recovery). We shall discuss things over the week and have a sense of direction before heading into the typing discussion this weekend.

 

[AzothBend]

On the matter of AT Shox,

It can be deceptively simple to view this next process as inverse Shox. Where instead of recovery + bad typing we explore good typing + no recovery. We should do our best to avoid such pitfalls.

Perhaps one of the unintentional benefits of no recovery is an additional move slot for utility. If we look to examples of defensively oriented Pokemon without recovery, for instance Ting Lu or Heatran, hazards are a common aspect. What other defensively-minded moves could be explored that we're not reserving a slot for recovery?

Similarly, without the opportunity cost of recovery, what progress can a defensive Pokemon make each turn? If it's limited in its HP, how can we maximize each point?

 

[kenn]

The votes have been tallied and the results are in and...

Results

Wu-Hsien - 18
Aejagard - 15
Gorgasque - 12
Questume - 11
Aliascorn - 9
Aromodo - 8
Pawjin - 7

Congratulations to YamiTheYin and their amazing design!

Let's continue assessing the concept of a Wall + No Recovery Shox and I will try to get typing discussion up by EOD Sunday!

 

[traceyscetchit]

On the matter of AT Shox,

It can be deceptively simple to view this next process as inverse Shox. Where instead of recovery + bad typing we explore good typing + no recovery. We should do our best to avoid such pitfalls.

Perhaps one of the unintentional benefits of no recovery is an additional move slot for utility. If we look to examples of defensively oriented Pokemon without recovery, for instance Ting Lu or Heatran, hazards are a common aspect. What other defensively-minded moves could be explored that we're not reserving a slot for recovery?

Similarly, without the opportunity cost of recovery, what progress can a defensive Pokemon make each turn? If it's limited in its HP, how can we maximize each point?

These questions lead into what I wanted do discuss so well that they feel almost like preselected questions for a scripted direct examination.

Basically, our biggest potential issue boils down to the fact that we can and will get worn down. We'll switch into our check, they'll click a button that makes progress into us, and then they'll switch out to something that walls us. If we aren't making any form of progress into that "something that walls us," we are playing a losing game. The only way to advance the game state is making risky double switches. As such, there are 2 things we need to make sure of to allow us to continue to do our job as a wall:
1. Take minimal chip, but especially take minimal chip in long games. Massive bulk is great, but being able to soak a nuke isn't really the goal. It's nice, of course, but that's not the particular problem that a no recovery wall needs patching. We need to be able to come in reliably over the course of a long game without taking too much damage each time. Massive bulk could be a part of that solution though.
2. We need to make semi-reliable progress each time we enter the field. It doesn't have to be much, but we need to be wearing down our checks as much as we get worn down by our targets.

With those two things in mind, one particular solution I want to talk about is phasing+hazards, as it fits a lot of bills at once. Phazing is a fairly consistent source of damage. You can force out the check, and even if the check isn't taking hazard damage, something in the back might. It improves our defensive profile in long games by forcing switches to stall for leftovers turns. It also takes advantage of the extra utility move slot. Finally, some of the best examples of no recovery walls use phazing. Ting-lu and giratina are the most obvious, but other pokemon like houndstone and bastiodon have used roar+lefties as well.

 

[kenn]

Seems like a big thing about AT Shox's viability is strictly going to be based on its overall resilience whether that be by way of moves, resistances/immunities, and particularly voiding entry hazard damage as much as possible to optimize/promote Leftovers usage as a potential "recovery route". With that, plus much more that has been mentioned here and in Discord, we are moving onto typing discussion!

Before we actually submit type combinations, I wanna discuss what types we think will work exceedingly well at having that resilience as well as potentially being able to combat the more offensive threats that do live in the Sacred Timeline. DO NOT SUBMIT TYPE COMBINATIONS YET! I think the assumption by way of universally assumed moves + what a type can bring to AT Shox's defensive profile should be the forethought when discussing the pros and cons of a type in and of itself. I will give a couple of days to discuss types that lean more into this before we submit anything so have fun and let's dive in!

 

[Ayecrusher King]

Gonna interrupt the flow to start delivering the remaining flavour for AT!CAPs (I'm just graduated barely a week, hence my delay). As a Chinese person, I'm gonna start with the one I relate to the most:

View attachment 846949
Wu-Hsien - Serpent
The Celebration Pokemon
Fairy/Dragon

View attachment 846950

Wu-Hsien - Lion
The Celebration Pokemon
Fairy/Steel

Based on dragon dances and lion dances.

Prosperity Wish
Fairy - 75 BP
10% chance to sleep foe(s). Wu-Hsien transforms.

Name Explanation/Translation

"Wu" comes from 舞, which means 'dance'. It is also part of the Chinese names for dragon dance (舞龙) and lion dance (舞狮).
"Hsien" is the Wade-Giles system's romanization of 仙, which is used in the Chinese localization of Pokemon for a few Fairy Pokemon since 仙子 means 'fairy'. On its own 仙 also means 'immortal', which implies the Mythical status of this Pokemon.

I know why the localization team used the Wade-Giles system for the Treasures of Ruin, but what do you mean 'xian' in Pinyin becomes 'hsien' in Wade-Giles??? And why do the Treasures of Ruin use a dash in their names????

Ability: Stamina

Dex Entry

CAP: The jubilation inspired during the festive celebrations of the new year has clad itself in the cremated costumes of honoured performers to become a Pokémon.

CAP: In this form, it takes up a proactive stance to ward away misfortune. The only thing that would pacify its wrath is Sacred Fire.

Level Up (15)

1 Quick Attack
1 Celebrate
1 Iron Defense
1 Dragon Dance
5 Disarming Voice
10 Acrobatics
15 Taunt
20 Flip Turn
25 Facade
30 Prosperity Wish
36 Uproar
42 Aura Sphere
48 Flash Cannon
54 Dragon Pulse
60 Misty Explosion

TMs (60/71)

TM001: Take Down
TM002: Charm
TM006: Scary Face
TM007: Protect
TM014: Acrobatics
TM019: Disarming Voice
TM025: Facade
TM032: Swift
TM033: Magical Leaf
TM038: Flame Charge
TM044: Dragon Tail
TM047: Endure
TM049: Sunny Day
TM050: Rain Dance
TM063: Psychic Fangs
TM066: Body Slam
TM070: Sleep Talk
TM078: Dragon Claw
TM079: Dazzling Gleam
TM080: Metronome
TM081: Grass Knot
TM084: Stomping Tantrum
TM087: Taunt
TM089: Body Press
TM093: Flash Cannon
TM097: Fly
TM100: Dragon Dance
TM103: Substitute
TM104: Iron Defense
TM107: Will-O-Wisp
TM111: Giga Drain
TM112: Aura Sphere
TM113: Tailwind
TM115: Dragon Pulse
TM119: Energy Ball
TM121: Heavy Slam
TM125: Flamethrower
TM127: Play Rough
TM129: Calm Mind
TM130: Helping Hand
TM134: Reversal
TM137: Grassy Terrain
TM139: Misty Terrain
TM141: Fire Blast
TM151: Phantom Force
TM152: Giga Impact
TM156: Outrage
TM159: Leaf Storm
TM160: Hurricane
TM163: Hyper Beam
TM169: Draco Meteor
TM170: Steel Beam
TM171: Tera Blast
TM172: Roar
TM179: Smack Down
TM184: Vacuum Wave
TM191: Uproar
TM193: Weather Ball
TM194: Grassy Glide
TM196: Flip Turn
TM201: Misty Explosion
TM202: Pain Split
TM205: Endeavor
TM208: Whirlpool
TM213: Coaching
TM216: Feather Dance
TM222: Breaking Swipe
TM223: Metal Sound
TM226: Dragon Cheer
TM227: Alluring Voice
TM229: Upper Hand

 

[traceyscetchit]

Gonna pity post because thread dead.

There are a few ways to deal with hazards. Typing is one of them. We can definitely ignore hazards if we want during typing, but if we do, we're probably gonna have to address them in ability.

The typings that have the best hazard matchups are held by these pokemon: , , , ,

The first three have spikes immunity without the rock weakness held by flying types, and the last two have 4x resistances to rock and tspikes immunity. is a solid runner up as the last typing to hold a 4x rock resistance, but doesn't have the tspikes immunity of the other two.

In terms of the defensive profile, I think 4x resistances, immunities, and type combinations that have trade a high number of resistances for a high number of weaknesses make a lot of sense for this concept. Resistances will allow us to switch into positive matchups that we ideally hard wall, and we can just not come in on our weaknesses. Being very polarized defensively stops us from getting chipped by lots of neutral hits.

Everybody here probably knows the hazard damage each type receives off of the top of their head but if you want to look for combos with specific traits, eg. grounded mons with rock resistance and t-spike immunity, this can be helpful, so I'll throw this list out:

Every Type Combo Sorted By Hazard MU

Spikes immunity, rock neutrality:
Fighting/Flying
Ground/Flying
Flying/Steel

T-spikes immunity, rock 4x resist:
Fighting/Steel
Ground/Steel

Rock 4x resist:
Fighting/Ground

T-spikes immunity, rock resist:
Steel
Normal/Steel
Water/Steel
Electric/Steel
Grass/Steel
Fighting/Poison
Poison/Ground
Poison/Steel
Psychic/Steel
Rock/Steel
Ghost/Steel
Dragon/Steel
Dark/Steel
Steel/Fairy

Rock resist:
Fighting
Ground
Normal/Fighting
Normal/Ground
Water/Fighting
Water/Ground
Electric/Fighting
Electric/Ground
Grass/Fighting
Grass/Ground
Fighting/Psychic
Fighting/Rock
Fighting/Ghost
Fighting/Dragon
Fighting/Dark
Fighting/Fairy
Ground/Psychic
Ground/Rock
Ground/Ghost
Ground/Dragon
Ground/Dark
Ground/Fairy

T-spikes immunity:
Poison
Normal/Poison
Fire/Steel
Water/Poison
Electric/Poison
Grass/Poison
Ice/Steel
Poison/Psychic
Poison/Rock
Poison/Ghost
Poison/Dragon
Poison/Dark
Poison/Fairy
Bug/Steel

Neutral:
Normal
Water
Electric
Grass
Psychic
Rock
Ghost
Dragon
Dark
Fairy
Normal/Water
Normal/Electric
Normal/Grass
Normal/Psychic
Normal/Rock
Normal/Ghost
Normal/Dragon
Normal/Dark
Normal/Fairy
Fire/Fighting
Fire/Ground
Water/Electric
Water/Grass
Water/Psychic
Water/Rock
Water/Ghost
Water/Dragon
Water/Dark
Water/Fairy
Electric/Grass
Electric/Psychic
Electric/Rock
Electric/Ghost
Electric/Dragon
Electric/Dark
Electric/Fairy
Grass/Psychic
Grass/Rock
Grass/Ghost
Grass/Dragon
Grass/Dark
Grass/Fairy
Ice/Fighting
Ice/Ground
Fighting/Bug
Ground/Bug
Psychic/Rock
Psychic/Ghost
Psychic/Dragon
Psychic/Dark
Psychic/Fairy
Rock/Ghost
Rock/Dragon
Rock/Dark
Rock/Fairy
Ghost/Dragon
Ghost/Dark
Ghost/Fairy
Dragon/Dark
Dragon/Fairy
Dark/Fairy

Spikes immunity, rock weakness:
Flying
Normal/Flying
Water/Flying
Electric/Flying
Grass/Flying
Poison/Flying
Flying/Psychic
Flying/Rock
Flying/Ghost
Flying/Dragon
Flying/Dark
Flying/Fairy

T-spikes immunity, rock weakness:
Fire/Poison
Ice/Poison
Poison/Bug

Rock weakness:
Fire
Ice
Bug
Normal/Fire
Normal/Ice
Normal/Bug
Fire/Water
Fire/Electric
Fire/Grass
Fire/Psychic
Fire/Rock
Fire/Ghost
Fire/Dragon
Fire/Dark
Fire/Fairy
Water/Ice
Water/Bug
Electric/Ice
Electric/Bug
Grass/Ice
Grass/Bug
Ice/Psychic
Ice/Rock
Ice/Ghost
Ice/Dragon
Ice/Dark
Ice/Fairy
Psychic/Bug
Bug/Rock
Bug/Ghost
Bug/Dragon
Bug/Dark
Bug/Fairy

Spikes immunity, rock 4x weakness:
Fire/Flying
Ice/Flying
Flying/Bug

Rock 4x weakness:
Fire/Ice
Fire/Bug
Ice/Bug

IT'S A REALLY BIG CODE OUTPUT, IF YOU DON'T LIKE SCROLLING DON'T EXPAND THE BOX

 

[viol and bass]

Ill-formed typing thoughts:

We're likely to need a good amount of bulk. This ordinarily makes typings with fewer weaknesses and resists ("holder of few") better than ones with a lot of both ("holder of many"), because bulk makes tanking neutral hits easier and the lack of weaknesses makes you less exploitable in general. I think the fact that we're fairly likely to run protect changes the game a little bit, because it allows you to scout, which is more relevant for a "holder of many" (Heatran may not be a great example but imagine it using Protect to scout Specs Enam / Kyurem or whatever). I also think no recovery makes a lack of resists a harder pill to swallow, because damage sticks and neutral hits are gonna do some damage even if you're bulky. So all that to say, this is not a Blissey situation. It's important for this mon to have solid resists.

Hazard resilience is important because hazard damage sticks, so minimizing that is helpful. A typing that really needs to run boots is tough here, since Leftovers hold a ton of value. There may be a boots defensive pivot build but it's tough for me to see that working super well. I think there are a few rocks-weak flying typings that could work since the ground immunity and spikes/tspikes immunity is genuinely super helpful, but being weak to rocks is rough overall.

Immunities are obviously incredibly good when damage sticks, but so is quad resisting common moves, particularly boosted ones– look at something like Venomicon, where Zama's body press is doing very little regardless of boosts, and it's also quad resisting the less common grass and bug while being immune to ground for good measure. Something like that is a nice model.

One of the typings that's jumping out to me the most right now is Ghost– immunities are great as I discussed, and it offers a Hex-based gameplan for exerting pressure if we want to go that route, or alternatively just pairing nicely with a ton of other types to exert pressure while sitting on things.

The quad resist king is probably Steel, and it offers a poison immunity etc. so it's obviously insane. It's hard to kind of evaluate mono types in a vacuum like this so I'm probably gonna stop there, but there's a lot of cool options.

 

[Guingil]

100% agree with the points about hazard-resistant and "holder of many" typings; they help us afford Leftovers and all the gameplans that follow from it. Heatran's resistance profile gives it many switch-in opportunities, often against targets it can trap and eliminate. This results in foes being forced to switch out against it (such as Mollux and Hemogoblin in CAP), giving it an extra turn of Leftovers healing as well as time to chip or set entry hazards. Ting-Lu has two immunities, a few key resistances, and its weaknesses are offset by its ridiculous bulk. In the time that you spend to bring in something that can break it, it can set up another layer of Spikes or punish your switch with a Whirlwind while getting that extra Leftovers turn as well.

I was initially thinking resistance to common moves like U-turn or Knock Off might be useful for switch-in opportunities, but have somewhat revised this opinion. Hard-switching on a U-turn will leave AT Shox in a one-versus-one against something that could force it out, while Knock Off removes our item, which is likely to be pretty crucial. Nullifying Volt Switch is great, in contrast, and there might be some paths down the line to punish U-turn or Knock Off. So it's not as if this is an entirely unviable route; it's just that we have to be careful.

Yeah, so if our typing is laying the groundwork for the healing-less walling shenanigans, best to go maximalistic.​

 

[kenn]

Looks like we have some solid points to address with typing submissions and so without further ado, typing submissions are now OPEN!

I wanna see some well thought out reasoning for why the type combo works best (without polljumping mind you) and what unique resistances can help shape AT Shox up to be a beautiful wall within the metagame!

I will get a slate up and voting started this weekend so make haste in posting your thoughts!