What IS the "meaning of life"? Does it differ person-to-person?

[Morm]

I'm pretty sure that faith is a means to an end on this debate. Cowards will constantly try to find meaning in a higher power or afterlife and those with a pair will likely mosey towards a meaning being more random, or meaningless.

If you think about this from a non-deist bullshit kind of way, one should consider the selfish gene. If you have read the book, fantastic, if not please ask for assistance. :D

 

[Mikazukinoyaiba]

I'm pretty sure that faith is a means to an end on this debate. Cowards will constantly try to find meaning in a higher power or afterlife and those with a pair will likely mosey towards a meaning being more random, or meaningless.

If you think about this from a non-deist bullshit kind of way, one should consider the selfish gene. If you have read the book, fantastic, if not please ask for assistance. :D

I'm sorry, but your arrogance makes me ashamed to be an atheist.

 

[Tobes]

I've been reading over the last 3 pages, and I've noticed that none of the pro-Christians has yet to effectively refute any of my or the other atheists' arguments. It's all good, you just got to believe, with no logical backing at all. To be honest, this thread is starting to get boring, as the Christians can't seem to create a logical argument for the existence of God, so it's all back-and-forth with the atheists/agnostics giving well thought-out arguments and the the Christians spouting Biblical references as proofs.

Also, I found the veiws on heaven, etc. from the Christians pretty lulzy. As I said before, what's the point of free will if we lose it in the end? Obsession and Mikazukinoyaiba brought up really nice points on how being in heaven isn't worth it if you're lobotomized. And @ Cartoons, you may not have noticed, but we're already in hell. How can a kind and loving God create pain suffering and death? Ignore the original sin argument for a second. You can't argue that Satan created it. (and even if you do, remember that according to you God still allows it.) According to the arguments that you've already given, Satan cannot technically exist given your own mythology. According to you, angels have no free will, right? So how did Satan rebel? He couldn't have. So that only leaves you with one conclusion. God created sin. Which makes him the evilest fucker in ever. I much prefer the idea of a world without God then one with that monster ruling over us.

Also, so I'm not being hypocrytical, I'd like to expand on my thoughts on life. We have no purpose. So, as others have said, we make our own. We try to be happy, because for us being happy is our ideal existence. We try to avoid pain and loss, which are the worst possible forms of existence. We create any purpose we can to assure ourselves everything will be all right, or we go into denial, or we face our imminent oblivion with a resignation to the inevitable. But ultimately those purposes amount to nothing. Everything we've ever done will inevitably be erased. When we die, there will be no proof that we ever existed outside of documents and the memories of people we knew. And once they die, all that's left of us are a few blurbs in an obituary and some tax records. It all amounts to nothing, because we are nothing. Beliefs, logic, they're one and the same when all's said and done, because they can do nothing to stop our inevitable deaths and disappearances. There in no such thing as hope. Only denial.

 

[drifblim70]

i think i posted earlier in this thread, but whatevs, my friends. bullshit there's no such thing as hope. Do you submit to the void or do you attack it? To paraphrase my earlier point: the void of set "purpose" in one's life is something to be grateful for, not something to angst about. It means that you can define purpose on your own, and that nothing is set in stone but stone itself. Humans are fated to die only because of the limits of our biological functions; we have the ability to concede to starvation if we wish, but we do not, except perhaps to make a political point--a point that is meaningful to us, God or not--or due to immense economic misfortune. Nihilism fails because to deny that something "is" means that it exists in some form, in thought or in being, and if thought exists, then something exists, don't it? You can say that that thought is temporary all you like but the thought still happened, to deny it is both stupid and cruel--see George Orwell's 1984 for the government that does that to perpetuate its existence. A lack of "God" does not equal a lack of spirit, whether that "spirit" is grounded upon biology or not, and it definitely doesn't equate to a denial that matter itself exists. The purpose of life is not merely to be happy, the purpose of life is a moot point: you have the freedom to live upon your own terms. Stop thinking about the purpose of individual life, focus upon the purpose of being-- to be, and by being, defy that boring, cold void. Even physical pain has a purpose--the brain's warning that the body must escape that source of pain, though the world's continuing destitution and irrational discrimination do not. But don't sit there and deny that you're sitting there, that you will have ever sat there, come the eons that may follow. The reason you feel it's pointless, that there is no hope, is because you're hopelessly deciding that it's pointless, and that's an error you shall most definitely live to regret.

Also Christianity isn't the only religion in the world, question some other ones now and then, or go ahead, make your own. Go ahead, start a cult. A cult which will exist and which will have existed. Atheism is actually quite a boring stance--we get it, there isn't a God, there's a hell of a lot else in the world to think about.

 

[SOMALIA]

God created Life there is no way an explosion of some sort would form the earth and the unique, beautiful physical appearance it has. Also for you Atheists, If there isn't some sort of super natural power behind the creation of this world how did the universe even appear? who made it? since you guys say the universe created human via big bang and other theories.^^

 

[Tobes]

@driflblim70

The reason I haven't been "attacking" any other religions is that no one else has brought them up.
I am quite familiar with 1984. Notice I never said anything didn't happen. I only said it might as well not have. And you are completely right about fighting the void. There is an inherent part of the human nature that wants to fight the unfairness of oblivion. Whether or not it can succeed is debatable. I still stand by what I said about there being no hope. Have you looked at the human species lately? There is every chance we will go extinct, in which case my points definately still hold true. However, if humanity manages to devise a way to give immortality, then I will definately reconsider my stance. Perhaps I should have said "As long as there is death, there is no hope." What are your thoughts on this?

Oh, and @SOMALIA, not all atheists strictly adhere to the big bang theory. It's a theory. A possible explanation. Not the explanation. You cannot say "zomg big bang theory same as god" because it's not true. We are limited by our technology and cannot determine how the universe began, or if it even began at all. (i.e. infinite cycle) And anyways, the universe being complex does not prove that there is a God. That argument has been brought up before in this thread and has been soundly shot down.

 

[cantab]

God created Life there is no way an explosion of some sort would form the earth and the unique, beautiful physical appearance it has. Also for you Atheists, If there isn't some sort of super natural power behind the creation of this world how did the universe even appear? who made it? since you guys say the universe created human via big bang and other theories.^^

You believe God was not created and God created the Universe. I simply believe the Universe was not created.

And we know how the Earth was formed, and how geological processes have shaped it, in exquisite detail. The way the Universe works is simple, but what it creates can be incredibly complex. That simple processes can produce incredible results is demonstrated by The Mandelbrot Set.

 

[Mikazukinoyaiba]

Also for you Atheists, If there isn't some sort of super natural power behind the creation of this world how did the universe even appear?

You're implying that the universe could only appear if a super natural power was behind it, as if somehow the burden of proof is on us to show otherwise. Even further you're implying that if "atheists" are wrong about how the universe came to be or don't have an answer, yours must be right.

who made it?

Do you know what an atheist is or not?

since you guys say the universe created human via big bang

Um.... no. Scientists (i.e. not atheists) believe the Universe was created through the Big Bang. They don't believe that the Universe created humans using the Big Bang.

and other theories.^^

^_^ Of course it is clear you're not interested in any actual discussion and rather would like to make blatant statements:

God created Life

there is no way an explosion of some sort would form the earth and the unique, beautiful physical appearance it has.

INFALLIBLE TRUTH

 

[Obsessed]

God created Life there is no way an explosion of some sort would form the earth and the unique, beautiful physical appearance it has. Also for you Atheists, If there isn't some sort of super natural power behind the creation of this world how did the universe even appear? who made it? since you guys say the universe created human via big bang and other theories.^^

You're right. There is no way an explosion created the Earth. Thank god the Big Bang wasn't an explosion, but the expansion of space. Also thank god it doesn't attempt to explain the formation of the Earth, or the origin of species.

Who made it is a leading question. What made it would be better question. And we have several very good guesses (backed by evidence) as to what processes led to the formation of the universe.

The formation of the Earth is well understood. Wikipedia it.

Nobody has said the universe created people via the big bang. Thank you for showing everyone how willfully ignorant you are. You can't even bother to get the facts straight.

People (not even atheists but theists too!!!) believe that humans are the product of evolution. As for life itself, that is being explained by abiogensis, of course we need to do more research in that area.

Also we get it. Certain theists cannot fathom how this universe/life could have arisen from natural processes. Other people can fathom how that is possible. Get over it.

 

[Mike B]

How can a kind and loving God create pain suffering and death?

I think people are getting the old testament, which was pretty gory, confused with the new testament.

 

[cantab]

I think people are getting the old testament, which was pretty gory, confused with the new testament.

But it's all the same Bible, describing the same God. Christianity could have rejected the Old Testament, denounced it as being incorrect. It did not.

 

[Tobes]

I wasn't referencing the Bible at all. What made you think that, Mike B? I've drawn my conclusions solely from what I've observed in the world.

 

[6A9 Ace Matador]

lifes a dream when you wake up the meaning of life and why toast always lands butter side down will all be revealed.

the question is, how do we wake up????????????????????????????

yeah think about it, dude

 

[SOMALIA]

You're right. There is no way an explosion created the Earth. Thank god the Big Bang wasn't an explosion, but the expansion of space. Also thank god it doesn't attempt to explain the formation of the Earth, or the origin of species.

Who made it is a leading question. What made it would be better question. And we have several very good guesses (backed by evidence) as to what processes led to the formation of the universe.

The formation of the Earth is well understood. Wikipedia it.

Nobody has said the universe created people via the big bang. Thank you for showing everyone how willfully ignorant you are. You can't even bother to get the facts straight.

People (not even atheists but theists too!!!) believe that humans are the product of evolution. As for life itself, that is being explained by abiogensis, of course we need to do more research in that area.

Also we get it. Certain theists cannot fathom how this universe/life could have arisen from natural processes. Other people can fathom how that is possible. Get over it.

People don't have solid evidence on how the world was created...wtf you on about and also it doesn't explain how the universe was just 'there' from the beginning of time, so until scientists get proper solid evidence and the tech to find out don't go telling other's they are ignorant..and also who said wikipedia is always right? seriously you think too narrow. Learn to see things from different perspectives.

A single observation which proves beyond doubt that the earth has been in existence for less than, say, 1 billion years would greatly weaken the arguments in favor of evolution. There simply would not have been sufficient time for all of the natural geological and biological processes to produce the complexities of the present world. read more dumbass before casting random assumptions in favour of what most people think.

 

[Obsessed]

People don't have solid evidence on how the world was created...wtf you on about and also it doesn't explain how the universe was just 'there' from the beginning of time, so until scientists get proper solid evidence and the tech to find out don't go telling other's they are ignorant..and also who said wikipedia is always right? seriously you think too narrow. Learn to see things from different perspectives.

I said you were an ignorant fucktard because you confused the Big Bang, abiogenesis, and evolution. Nobody believes the universe created humans using the big bang. That makes no fucking sense and you would understand that if you put in the effort to actually understand the theories you are criticizing.

Ok Wikipedia doesn't cut it for you? Google "The formation of planets." You can even use Google scholar!

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/COMPLETE/learn/planets/planets.html (Harvard good enough for you?)

The earth is a fucking planet. We know how planets form. We can deduce that the Earth was formed from similar processes.

And there is evidence to support these scientific theories. That is kind of why they are theories and not hypotheses. Of course, you probably don't understand the difference between the common word theory, and a scientific theory.

 

[SOMALIA]

Dude it's even been proven that there are flaws in that so called theory man, I'm not saying 'im right but i'm saying everyone cant go by one theory just because the majority of people follow it.

Edit: I checked google and funny enough I find more links talking about flaws in the theory of evolution haha. Anyways I'll end it here, was curious to see other people's views.^^

 

[Obsessed]

So you Googled the formation of planets and instead found scientific papers regarding evolution? I don't believe you for some reason...

 

[cantab]

A single observation which proves beyond doubt that the earth has been in existence for less than, say, 1 billion years would greatly weaken the arguments in favor of evolution.

No it wouldn't. We don't know exactly how fast evolution can "go", but observing that rates of morphological change in lineages vary suggests that it didn't happen always as quickly as it "could have".

And anyway, what could such an observation be? What one observation could be considered so definitively accurate that we could instantly ignore all the existing, well-understood, numerous observations that indicate the Earth is four point something billion years old.

 

[Morm]

I'm sorry, but your arrogance makes me ashamed to be an atheist.

Okay I know this is a little late, but how is telling someone that they should consider something reasonable arrogant in any way? That was a pretty bold thing for you to say, I demand further explanation.

 

[Mikazukinoyaiba]

how is telling someone that they should consider something reasonable arrogant in any way?

When you're insulting them while at the same time putting yourself on some sort of higher pedestal:

Cowards will constantly try to find meaning in a higher power or afterlife and those with a pair will likely mosey towards a meaning being more random, or meaningless.

This "free thinker" attitude certainly isn't going to get anyone on your side.

 

[Morm]

I repeat: how is telling someone that they should consider something reasonable arrogant in any way?

I am not putting myself on a higher pedestal. Can you show me where I did this? I'll admit to the fact that some of my views may have been offensive to some, that's old news. So if anything I'm a prick, not arrogant.

I don't even understand what the misnomer "free thinker" imposed on my attitude is even designed to accomplish.

What I said is entirely true. People are afraid of death, they are afraid of being alone and they are afraid of things they don't understand. Therefore, a cowardly person will try to find a higher meaning to wrap life up in a nice little bow without so much as turning over a stone. These people 'know' the answer before the question is asked and that answer is always in the realm of destiny, God or some other higher power. Those who aren't looking for a nice fairy tale ending will look at things more analytically and objectively will look at the evidence which, as "arrogant" and "free thinking" as this may come off to you, points entirely in one way. A reminder: the plural of anecdote is not data and a feeling in your heart is not an acceptable alternative to empirical evidence. If anything, I'm the opposite of free thinking as I do my very best to rigorously limit my thought process to the scientific and empirical side of things rather than abstract nonsense.

I would find it pretty hypocritical if any of the above considerations are in disagreement with you, a self proclaimed atheist.

So do you find all atheists to be arrogant?

 

[Objection]

I think he means that your use of "cowards" and "those with a pair" implies that those who think a certain way are inferior to those who think another kind of way.

 

[Treadshot A1]

Meaning of life? To me that would be...well...i wouldn't know. I know what i live for, the things that my life would never be without, when i'm truly content. But what the meaning of life is, i'll never know

 

[Morm]

I think he means that your use of "cowards" and "those with a pair" implies that those who think a certain way are inferior to those who think another kind of way.

I explained in my post above how it's entirely appropriate to use the term coward. "Those with a pair" is just another way of saying uncowardly. I will come right out and say that those with an archaic, non progressive stance on death, faith and anything else with NO EVIDENCE backing it is inferior. No more implication needed.

 

[Sargatanas]

The end defines the meaning of life. Therefore;death.